So, I've been commissioned to write a script by someone who has an idea, but doesn't have the writing ability necessary to actually complete a screenplay.  Because of this, he's asked me to take his idea and draft out a script.  I'm very interested in undertaking this project, but I wanted to see if you guys knew what I should ask for in terms of compensation.  This guy has already said he would pay me, but I have a feeling that he's going to ask what I want, as opposed to him just telling me what he'll pay.

Now, I'm not a professional screenwriter, but I've optioned two screenplays before.  Also, drafting out an entire screenplay will take a good chunk of my time, so I'm looking at a pretty big commitment here.  I feel like I have some leverage to work with here.

So, what do you all think?  What's reasonable to ask for, and what should I take into account when accepting this assignment?

-Eric

I'd ask for money up front, first and foremost.  If he suggests points on the backend, you will not get a dime unless the film is produced and it makes a profit.

As to how much you should get, that depends on a lot of factors.  How big of a production is this expected to be?


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe As to how much you should get, that depends on a lot of factors.  How big of a production is this expected to be?

It's a bit trickier of a situation, as it's not for a specific production, per se.  The guy wants to shop it around town.  His wife is an agent at a rather large talent agency, and she's agreed to show it around upon completion.  So one might say that that in and of itself is incentive enough to do it, but it is still work that should be paid for.

Quoted from Eric Stokes His wife is an agent at a rather large talent agency...

Ask her.

And decide beforehand what the bare minimum you will do this for really is.  That will be based upon factors that only you can decide, based upon your time and lifestyle.

Keep it to yourself, of course, but in any negotiation like this, you should know where the basement is before you even pick up the phone.

Quoted from Eric Stokes It's a bit trickier of a situation, as it's not for a specific production, per se.  The guy wants to shop it around town.  His wife is an agent at a rather large talent agency, and she's agreed to show it around upon completion.  So one might say that that in and of itself is incentive enough to do it, but it is still work that should be paid for.

This is a spec then. I don't think you want to have any payment from them for it. You want your name on it. It should be written by you, based on a story by him, and you both share the credit. I would expect half of what it sells for, if it sells and nothing if it doesn't. Otherwise you run the risk of selling yourself short if the spec ends up selling for a decent sum.

Why does this sound like a post that has been here just recently?

Shawn.....><

Quoted from bert And decide beforehand what the bare minimum you will do this for really is.  That will be based upon factors that only you can decide, based upon your time and lifestyle.

Quoted from Murphy This is a spec then. I don't think you want to have any payment from them for it. You want your name on it. It should be written by you, based on a story by him, and you both share the credit. I would expect half of what it sells for, if it sells and nothing if it doesn't. Otherwise you run the risk of selling yourself short if the spec ends up selling for a decent sum.

These seem to be two conflicting views (money vs. credit); although I suppose Bert could be in favor of either.  I know I'm new at this and all, but it seems like I should get some kind of payment for my work, especially because it has the potential to go, quite literally, nowhere.  Also, is it not possible to get both?

Quoted from Ledbetter Why does this sound like a post that has been here just recently?

Wouldn't really know that; just joined.   But thanks for the internet hospitality.   ::)

The reason it sounds conflicting is because there is more than one path to take.   It all depends on where you want to go.  

You can sell right up front.  Write the script for cash.  What they do with it afterward is none of your business.   In most cases this is probably what a professional would do.  As a matter of fact I believe that the writer's guild agreements prevent a writer being asked to write specs without being paid for it.

However, if you are not a guilded screenwriter, then it is up to you.  If you think the guys wife can sell it and you are confident in your abilities to write it  then you can defer payment until it is sold.  You might even make more off of it that way - of course you could make less too.  It's always going to be a gamble no matter how you slice it.

The reason this post sounds familiar is because a wife made a post a couple of weeks ago looking for a writer to write a screenplay about her husbands life.   It wasn't a reference to you but at the situation you are in.    

Quoted from mcornetto The reason it sounds conflicting is because there is more than one path to take.   It all depends on where you want to go.   You can sell right up front.  Write the script for cash.  What they do with it afterward is none of your business.   In most cases this is probably what a professional would do.  As a matter of fact I believe that the writer's guild agreements prevent a writer being asked to write specs without being paid for it. However, if you are not a guilded screenwriter, then it is up to you.  If you think the guys wife can sell it and you are confident in your abilities to write it  then you can defer payment until it is sold.  You might even make more off of it that way - of course you could make less too.  It's always going to be a gamble no matter how you slice it.

Thanks for the advice; you all have given me a bit to think about.

Quoted from mcornetto The reason this post sounds familiar is because a wife made a post a couple of weeks ago looking for a writer to write a screenplay about her husbands life.   It wasn't a reference to you but at the situation you are in.

Ah, didn't know quite how to read that.  Now I do.  ;D

Quoted from mcornetto The reason it sounds conflicting is because there is more than one path to take.   It all depends on where you want to go.   You can sell right up front.  Write the script for cash.  What they do with it afterward is none of your business.   In most cases this is probably what a professional would do.  As a matter of fact I believe that the writer's guild agreements prevent a writer being asked to write specs without being paid for it. However, if you are not a guilded screenwriter, then it is up to you.  If you think the guys wife can sell it and you are confident in your abilities to write it  then you can defer payment until it is sold.  You might even make more off of it that way - of course you could make less too.  It's always going to be a gamble no matter how you slice it. The reason this post sounds familiar is because a wife made a post a couple of weeks ago looking for a writer to write a screenplay about her husbands life.   It wasn't a reference to you but at the situation you are in.

Decisions-decisions.

If it were me, because I'm crazy and optimistic, when I'm not reading Yeaster's "The Unseen", I'd go for the deferral option. I'd write like hell and then throw it away and leave it to the wind. If it was mine in the first place, it would come back. If not-- oh well.

Sandra

Quoted from mcornetto a matter of fact I believe that the writer's guild agreements prevent a writer being asked to write specs without being paid for it. However, if you are not a guilded screenwriter, then it is up to you.  If you think the guys wife can sell it and you are confident in your abilities to write it  then you can defer payment until it is sold.  You might even make more off of it that way - of course you could make less too.  It's always going to be a gamble no matter how you slice it.

If you are a guilded writer then there actually is a minimum amount you have to be paid is there not Michael? I think it is around $85k.

I think they can stop you writing on commission for no money, but they can't do anything about you collaborating on a spec with someone who has an idea. If you go that route you just have to be clear that this is not a commission and you are collaborating on a spec. That is exactly what a spec is, a script that you write for nothing hoping to make money when it sells.

If you want paid upfront maybe ask for the guild minimum. But have they really got money to actually pay you? I mean, at the end of the day if they are willing to pay guild minimum then why you? there must be plenty of screenwriters already with credits who will write it for minimum.

At the end of the day what is it worth to you? Is the story better than anything you could write on your own? Is this agents involvement going to help sell it? Or are you just better off spending the time writing your own script?

If he's offering to pay you, why would you turn it down for something you already deserve (credit)? Credit should be a given and if you get a contract, make sure it is a given. If there's any language in the clause that suggests it might slip his mind, get rid of it. This is the one thing you should have locked down in any agreement.

As far as payment goes, ask him what he's offering. If he found you here, chances are he's not going to give you $85k. You should get something up front in any case. Try for 3% back end in addition to that. 5% if you're feeling lucky. I'm assuming this is an independent production so I don't see why he wouldn't give it to you. The film could just as easily not make a cent.

I agree with Bert as well. Think of a minimum you will work for and keep it in mind during negotiations.

At the same time, keep in mind that if you're writing on spec, the film could just as easily not see the light of day. You're taking a risk regardless.

James, I might have interpreted this wrong, but to me it does not read as though he is being asked to write for a film. They want him to write a script so they can then try and sell it. So really they are just asking him to write a spec for them. It really does not make much sense seen as she is an agent anyway. And not sure at all why an agent would offer to pay someone to write a spec script.

Gotcha. So forget the back end. Just money up front.

Let's put it this way:

1.  You agree to write a spec script in exchange for credit and something in the backend.  You spend a couple of weeks doing this, working with someone who can't write a script.

2.  The script is never sold.  You get no credit or payments.

3.  The script is sold to someone who tells your non-writing partner that he will get points after it's produced.  Still no credit or payments.

4.  Production starts.  Hooray!  But something happens and production stops (most likely permanently).    You get no credit or payments.

5.  The film is shot.  However, the people involved don't know what they're doing and it is lost in post production limbo.    You get no credit or payments.

6.  The film is completed.  But the producer couldn't get a distributor.  You get credit but no payments.

7.  The film makes it to one or two film festivals and it gets panned.  The director is a hack.  The theater students who missed class to film this... shouldn't have.    You get credit but no payments.

8.  The film does not make it's money back and you can find copies in the local 99 cent store.    You get credit but no payments.

Payment up front sounds pretty now, don't it?


Phil  

You can always go WGA on this one, or, at least, use them for a framework.  Pay for completion of a first draft and pay upon a second.  Get a piece of the back end, still.  We're wrapping up negotiations on a TV pilot and we got pay at signing, upon delivery of treatment, upon delivery of first draft, upon delivery of second draft, and all other rewrites are paid after that.  We also got a nice deal on the back end if the show moves into production.  At any rate, get your pay up front, but do it in a way that's fair to you and your client (that's what he is).  Make sure he sees results for money spent.  

Stokes, is this guy who asked you to turn his idea into a script, a friend of yours?  If not, why did he ask you...how did this all come up?

You can go 1 or a combination of 2 routes here...

You can ghost write it for him for a fee of whatever you charge for your time, or you can enter into a collaboration with him, where you each get credit and money if you guys can sell the script.

Quoted from Dreamscale Stokes, is this guy who asked you to turn his idea into a script, a friend of yours?  If not, why did he ask you...how did this all come up?

Friend of a friend kind of deal.  A friend of mine knew I wrote screenplays and threw my name in the mix when this guy was discussing his idea.

Gotcha.

Does he have the ability to pay cash up front?  It's really a matter him paying for your time, or you seeing so much potential in the project that you want to go into it with him as writing partners of some kind.

Hey Stokes.  I agree with Murphy in that this isn't a commission and that he's asking you to spec.  I have to ask: what does the other guy get out of it?  Is he attaching himself as producer?  Will you own all the rights to the script?  I assume you should since you are speccing it.

From what I know, typically writers spec for free for producers unless the project is already set up at a studio and there's money flowing i.e. studio-level assignments.  Producers get their money from the studios and unless they have discrentionary funds they can dip into (most don't), they can't pay you.  So, whenever producers have a cool idea for a project that they're sure they can sell, they pitch it to a writer whose work they like (based on sample spec), and if the writer likes it he'll go ahead and spec a treatment -- then the script.  But in the end, the writer owns the rights to the script since he wrote it.  But producers can get ugly if you suddenly decide to shop it elsewhere.

Not all producers have a Joel Silver status that can get a project set up at a studio prior to bringing a writer onboard.  And not all writers have the track record where they can sell on pitch.  Most producers need a script to show the studios -- hence getting writers to spec it first.

From what I know, if producers pay you upfront with discrentionary funds, then that's all a writer is typically going to get for the project, even if the script sells afterwards for much-much more.  Of course all of the WGA backend stuff will still apply if the project goes into development.  My understanding is that the basic mantra applies across the board: they don't get paid until you get paid -- from agents to managers to attorneys.  So it's in everybody's interest to have a strong script that can sell.

From what I know, there are a lot of spec sales by first-timers where the inception of the spec comes from boucing ideas with their manager or producers that have taken an interest in their writing talent.

The worst case scenario is that it doesn't sell but you've gained fans in the industry along the way, which opens up many more opprtunities.  This is how most writers typically build a reputation in town and kickstart a career.  You'll be surprised at how one little spec can attract the attention of heavyweights simply by getting passed around from a single source.  

From my understanding and experience, that is how the industry typically operates.  :)