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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  Short Scripts  /  West Side Markets
Posted by: Don, February 11th, 2011, 7:52pm
West Side Markets by Brett Martin (electric dreamer) - Short, Romantic Fantasy - A girl falls in love with a boy from the wrong side of the parking lot. 13 pages - pdf, format 8)
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 11th, 2011, 8:31pm; Reply: 1
Author's Note:

I've learned a lot and enjoy my time here immensely.
I wanted to give SS members a little romantic fantasy for the valentine weekend.
I hope everyone enjoys the holiday time in their own way.
Damn, 500 comments. Wow. I never seem to shut up! :P
Happy Valentine's Day!
Posted by: jwent6688, February 11th, 2011, 9:10pm; Reply: 2
Fuck Valentines weekend... I'm tearing your script apart!

I found this script struggling with its identity. You had some heart felt moments in here, yet, some ridiculous over the top moments... "Sour dough bread torpedos, The boys holstering price guns". Then it has a serious moment at the end.

Your strong point is your dialogue. I liked the romance between Emily and Matt. I wanted more of that then this over the top parking lot fight. You may have a talent for rom coms. It's okay, people have told me that too.

Good show Brett, I was entertained...

Either way it was a fun read. And timely

I do, however, hate how you space every line of action. two to three is acceptable, but, if thats your style... Roll with it.

James
Posted by: screenrider (Guest), February 11th, 2011, 9:55pm; Reply: 3
Brett,

As much as I hate to admit it, I'm with Jwent on this one.   The flip-floppin' from serious to kinda cheesy, threw me off.   But I also enjoyed it as well.   A noble effort.   Romeo and Juliet-ish.   I also have a problem with the single spacing.

In any event, nice work.  
Posted by: mcornetto (Guest), February 11th, 2011, 10:06pm; Reply: 4
Romano cheese and Julienne fries.  Now I'm all hungry.  

Pretty good to base a script on a classic.  I wish I had the discipline to approach something like that.  Whenever, I try something like that it always ends up nothing like the original.  This is recognisible - so good job on that score.

The dialogue and the narration was well done.  I would have liked to see the Narrator named - if not at the beginning then at the end.  It was distracting to  see narrator the whole time when you knew it was going to be one of the girls in the script and since there was only one girl...I understand why you didn't name her to begin with, I'm just not sure you need to do that.

I thought some of the silliness during the fight was also distracting and would suggest a decision about how to go with it - silly all the way or serious with light comedy.

Good work.

Posted by: LC, February 11th, 2011, 10:52pm; Reply: 5
I think you're all being nitpickety (which is actually our job, & I will be a bit below too, but...)

This is wonderful! Should be 'Short Script of the Day'.

It's like a hybrid of Rebel without a Cause, Amelie, obv. West Side Story, & Baz Lurman's R&J. All of them came to mind when I was reading this. I think the soppy & serious blend make it what it is. I half expected the characters to break into song and some of the action sequences read like chess moves.

I don't have a problem with the breaking up of the spaced action lines. Made it easier to read and keep track.

In the interest of 'feedback' - I've got to wonder at you using Intercut when you did (cld be wrong?). This does require a second read. And, this particular wording irritated me -  'door opens some' 'the apron lifts some'.

And in the interests of making this truly romantic I would change Matt's line prior to the flashback - the one where he says,

'Can't do that to my father... family would be devastated' etc.

As with Romeo & Juliet they're aware of this already. Their love means this is exactly what will happen, but they do it anyway because they've no choice - they're in love. Brett, you lost me there for a mo'. Guy comes across as a wimp and Daddy's boy. You do fix it further on, but still, I'd change it, because...

... there's no question Matt will run off with her! He'd chose Emily over his father. He has to. Please change that line or just have him give her a 'look' re the gravity of their decision & the obv. consequences.

Lastly, I'm with Mc re the Narrator. Twas a bit jarring esp. at the end. I would change this to being the voices/characters of Mrs Almac and Mrs Demoula. Have Mrs Almac sprinkle cinnamon over the hot bun on the countertop and Mrs Demoula decorate a Petit Four. Would up the ante imo. Just a suggestion.

Overall, inventive reincarnation of an old theme. Brilliant. Well done :)
Posted by: jwent6688, February 11th, 2011, 11:42pm; Reply: 6

Quoted from LC
I don't have a problem with the breaking up of the spaced action lines. Made it easier to read and keep track.


I disagree. Thanks for calling me out. I guess I need to make my point. #1 your chewing up pages too fast. one minute= one page. I know you know that. screenwriting 101.

Every bit of your action lines looks like a montage. Yes! Space every line in a montage scene. Tighten them otherwise. I actually think that helps the read IMO. I'm just used to it reading scripts with two or three lines of action grouped together between dialogue.

If you ever wrote a feature like this it would be 150 pages... plus...

James

Posted by: LC, February 12th, 2011, 12:03am; Reply: 7

Quoted from jwent6688

I disagree. ...
... If you ever wrote a feature like this it would be 150 pages... plus...
James


Each to their own. Yep it breaks the 'rules' somewhat, and I can appreciate James has a prob. with it.

If it were a feature I'd prob. have a problem with it too. But it ain't.  It's a 'short'. Breaking it up actually helped guide me through and enabled me to visualise those action scenes better.

No brush with you James, just interested to see how more SS'ers view it. I'll say no more, for now.



Posted by: grademan, February 12th, 2011, 3:34pm; Reply: 8
Hey Brett,

Thanks for the VD story!

I can see it was done along the lines of the classics as the rest have already noted. Interesting. Some comments.

STYLE CHOICES:

NARRATOR is too generic. I prefer to know the name esp if one implies he is close to the story.

V.O. for 10-15 line was a bit much. I kept going “let’s get to it.”

INTERCUTS were confusing. I assumed you were intercutting by line. Still hard to follow.

SINGLE line description is close to action stacking which may be a little intense for a romantic tale. Actually, when I read this, I hit the return carriage on my mental typewriter every time I finished a line.  Looked nice,

AUTUMNAL not a word I’d use. I can picture an executive reading that as the first word and stopping right there.

OTHER STUFF

Favorite lines:
MATT
That’s a nice first name.
EMILY
I like your first name too.

Favorite ready to dance moment:

MATT
You’re on. Tonight, we rumble.

Favorite moment: Knife tip trembles a millimeter shy of Emily’s stomach,

Favorite name; DeMoulas (the money?)

GARY
Posted by: Ryan1, February 12th, 2011, 4:45pm; Reply: 9
Brett,

I liked a lot of your descriptions, "Angular ice blue text glows and hums."  Really set the scene well for what was to follow.  Dialogue was okay, but I think you overused the narrator at the beginning, as his VOs ran for two pages.

R&J is always good source material.  Having two rival markets was a novel twist on this.

The rumble in the parking lot was funny.  Reminded me a lot of the free-for-all battle in Anchorman because it was so over the top.  Then the joust scene was right out of Jackass.

But, then the tone takes this jarring turn when Ray plunges the butcher knife into Matt.   It made no sense to me and frankly I think it sabotaged the end of the script.  They go from slapping price tags on each other to that?  I understand you were sticking to the R&J storyline there, but the original stayed true to its tone throughout the story while yours jumped from light hearted farce to deadly serious drama.  

Some of the exchanges in that last scene were a little cringe-worthy:  "His blood is the same color as mine, and yours."

And to go from a death scene to a shot of cinnamon bun with heart frosting and being wished "Happy Valentines Day" was another jarring tonal shift.

Overall, I liked the piece up until the stabbing.  Then it fell apart, IMO.  But good on ya for trying something new.

Ryan


Posted by: reuel51, February 13th, 2011, 3:01am; Reply: 10
I've made the same decision before with stacking the action line by line. When I read my own, it made sense and read fast. I couldn't understand why some of the feedback I got had a problem with the action. The biggest gripe seemed to be "too much action". After reading this, I've realized it wasn't too much action, it was that everything was broken up so much that the readers were dwelling on every little bit of action as if the one sentence was going to have tremendous meaning in the end. What this does is causes readers to expend a lot of mental energy remembering each and every move that every character is making. It's tiresome and that is why they complained about "too much action"

No, I don't think you have too much action, I just think you need to combine some of the action lines together, that way, I, the reader, can pick and choose which specific actions are the most important to me, and I will skim over the rest. I still get the overall picture in my head, but now, I'm not holding onto every single price sticker pattern left on a DaMoulas or an Almacs.

Anyway, I really liked what you've done with a classic theme. The silliness of using supermarkets was brilliant, and it played well into the parking lot rumble. The fight was fun and over the top. But then the stabbing came, and as others have mentioned, the tone of the script took such a sharp turn, it was jarring. Then it turns again to something profound about blood being the same color. I like that Ray takes things too far, but to stab and kill the guy? That was too much for what the rest of the script is about. We're watching teenage boys fight with bread and sticker guns. If Ray was to walk up to Matt and simply cold cock him in the nose, breaking it and causing blood to gush, you would keep within the confines of the silly tone. That's just a thought.

Kudos on putting out a Valentine's day script. This was a fun read.

Brian
Posted by: Craiger6, February 13th, 2011, 4:44pm; Reply: 11
Hey E.D.,

I’ve really appreciated the feedback you’ve given me on some of my stuff, and I know you are always going out of your way to read others’ stuff, so I wanted to pipe in here.

I thought this was very interesting, and while I enjoyed it for the most part, there were also some things that I was on the fence about.  As James mentioned in the first comment, initially, I got the feeling that this was too back and forth between serious and silly.  However, the more I think about it, I think that was clearly your intent.  I’m not sure how I feel about it one way or the other, but kudos for sticking to your guns and having fun with it.

All in all, I think it was a successful effort and good read.  Some of the dialogue worked better for me than other parts.  I kind of agree with Ryan about the whole “his blood is the same color as mine…” line.  I also picked out another one.  

Anyway, below are some notes I took while reading:

P.3 – “We can’t keep meeting like this.”

Forgive me, but it seems kind of cliché.  I think you’ve got better chops than that.

And you prove me right in the next scene.  I love the idea of having them fall for each other on this catwalk.  I thought this was really cool, and loved the way you set it up.  Very inventive.

P. 5 – “I don’t make deals, but I do make promises.”

Nice line.

P. 7 – “RAY: Then we settle it with a rumble.”

So, I realize we’ve got a Romeo & Juliet meets Westside Story going on here, but I think I would have preferred you to contemporize the dialogue.  This is a stupid example, but maybe make the characters some meat heads from the Jersey Shore.  I know, I know, that’s a shitty idea, but the point is you can make them talk and sound like kids from 2011 and still get your point across.

(Updated after reading: As I said earlier, I think it was clearly your intention to toggle back and forth between serious and silly, so maybe some contemporary guidos talking the way guidos talk, night actually work well for you here.  I don’t know, just a thought.

P. 9 – “A chubby Demoula boy takes the bread upside the head. He grimaces and falls, out cold.
Ray leans over the fallen comrade. He rips the dough in half and sniffs the insides. He tests a piece and
spits it out.”

Haha, well done.  Nice imagery.

Anyway, I thought this was a nice effort Brett, and I enjoyed it.  Thanks for sharing and I hope this helps.

Craig
Posted by: bert, February 14th, 2011, 9:04am; Reply: 12
I decided to save your Valentine's Day script for Valentine's Day.  Thoughts as follows:
  
Right at the front, the period after DEMOULAS threw me for a bit -- occurring so early in the story, I did not recognize it as a slug.  Better to slap an EXT in front of it and lose the period.  And it should go without saying that I would give similar treatment to ALMACS.  And reading further still, you need to lose those slugline periods throughout.  Why are you even doing that?

Is Ray a Demoula?  You should establish that up front, yes or no.  And a fine point -- later you mention the blood on Ray's apron, but the apron is red.  Not very visual at all.  Better white, or some other color.

I have buzzed over the comments, not terribly thorough, but I did notice some back and forth about the single-sentence descriptions.  For what it is worth, I say that is a great way to go.  White space, reads quicker, no problems.

The fight scene is wonderfully absurd, but I agree with the others that the stabbing is way too jarring for the tone you have established.

I would recommend this fix:  Why not have Emily with her charging carts plunge into the center of the joust and the horrified boys thump HER instead of each other?  Of course the blow is not fatal, but you still maintain that sense of ironic tragedy the story demands, and you can continue with your conclusion mostly the way you have it -- but without the knives.

This is not the sort of script I typically seek out, but I think you did a good job with it.  Some good humor, with a light touch.  But I would re-examine the overt violence that occurs late in the story, which kind of undermines what has gone before.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 14th, 2011, 11:28am; Reply: 13

Quoted from jwent6688
Fuck Valentines weekend... I'm tearing your script apart!


Hey James!

Heh, you got the first tear in on this one.
So, I guess you prefer Singles Awareness Day to Valentine's Day? :P

Quoted from jwent6688

I found this script struggling with its identity. You had some heart felt moments in here, yet, some ridiculous over the top moments... "Sour dough bread torpedos, The boys holstering price guns". Then it has a serious moment at the end.

Your strong point is your dialogue. I liked the romance between Emily and Matt. I wanted more of that then this over the top parking lot fight. You may have a talent for rom coms. It's okay, people have told me that too.

Good show Brett, I was entertained...

Either way it was a fun read. And timely

I do, however, hate how you space every line of action. two to three is acceptable, but, if thats your style... Roll with it.

James



I decided I wasn't going to play it safe and go for the whole enchilada.
An integral part of Romeo & Juliet and West Side Story is tragedy.
Do I go for the light musical approach or take a swing at the big drama at the end?
I'm all about the emotional rollercoaster, so I gave it a shot.
With these shorts, it's about letting it all hang out for me.
They are mental floss for me in between bigger stuff.
I was just coming off a four week project and wanted to have some fun.
So I tried to stuff the entire ride into 13 pages with mixed results.
I tend to space out stuff when I'm in a montage type mode.
I can see how it would be distracting.
Thanks for the read, I may revisit this script for revisions.

Happy Valentine's Day!

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 14th, 2011, 11:33am; Reply: 14

Quoted from screenrider
Brett,

As much as I hate to admit it, I'm with Jwent on this one.   The flip-floppin' from serious to kinda cheesy, threw me off.   But I also enjoyed it as well.   A noble effort.   Romeo and Juliet-ish.   I also have a problem with the single spacing.

In any event, nice work.  


Screenrider,

Thanks for the read.
I'm glad you overall enjoyed the ride.
It's meant to pull you along with a larger than life atmosphere.
I wanted to take it as far as I could and run the gambit of emotions.
I admit, I may have been overambitious with the script.
I'd rather have a mixed result going for it though.
As opposed to playing it conservative and keeping the tone safe.
As it stands now, I have a better idea of where to take the story now because of it.
As to the action description, I got a bit montagey at times. Guilty.
It's safe bet I'll revisit this material at some point.

Happy Valentine's Day!

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 14th, 2011, 11:41am; Reply: 15

Quoted from mcornetto
Romano cheese and Julienne fries.  Now I'm all hungry.  

Pretty good to base a script on a classic.  I wish I had the discipline to approach something like that.  Whenever, I try something like that it always ends up nothing like the original.  This is recognisible - so good job on that score.

The dialogue and the narration was well done.  I would have liked to see the Narrator named - if not at the beginning then at the end.  It was distracting to  see narrator the whole time when you knew it was going to be one of the girls in the script and since there was only one girl...I understand why you didn't name her to begin with, I'm just not sure you need to do that.

I thought some of the silliness during the fight was also distracting and would suggest a decision about how to go with it - silly all the way or serious with light comedy.

Good work.



Michael.

Thanks for the read. This one was a trip to put together.
I sat down with West Side Story and took a few notes to help me out.
It did take some serious discipline to capture the tone of WSS and R&J.
I don't think I totally nailed it, but I'm moving in the right direction.
I think there's enough here to merit revisiting the material for another draft.
I agree there's some Narrator identity vagueness I could sharpen.
I like to be ambitious with these mental floss shorts and see if I can pull it off.
Never written anything remotely like this before, and boy was it fun.
The best way for me to learn is to bite off more than I can chew and go with it.

Happy Valentine's Day!

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: RayW, February 16th, 2011, 11:54am; Reply: 16
B-man!
Whaddap?!


Lookit your fancy WGA reg! You look so... grown up and mature when you do that.
Maybe I'll grow up someday and quit being such a putzer.

Ding! Ding! Ding!
Positive reinforcement! Positive reinforcement!

Yeah. I ran across that "Who the h3ll is narrating this?!" thing back with my first butcher house thingie.
I don't think much of it, but the rest of the planet gets up in arms over this surprisingly critical issue.  ::)
Gotta specify your narrators, even male or female, and certainly if it's one of the characters.
For FALLEN they musta had a duck.

Okay!
Read it straight through with no significant hitches.
Pretty impressive.

Yeah, it does waffle back and forth between regular, silly-fun and a little too serious.
Your contemporary Capulet and Montague scenario is well constructed.
I don't have a problem with teens speaking in cliches.
Kids are too inexperienced to know otherwise. Lookit the teen submissions we get here.  ;D
The exchange on the sign catwalk was beautiful.
Favorite line: "The pair use the valentine placard to 'shake hands'."  That was really nice.

So, at this point the story has gone from white bread setup into corn bread romance.
Fine.
Cool.

Then it turns into... fruitcake.
Fine.
Cool.
Your scenario is an action riot!
It's great!

And then "Ray drives the butcher knife into Matt from behind."

DUUUUUUDE?! W? T? H?!

Kiss the bleeding boy - Sparks shower endlessly - Tra-la-la-la-la! - And we never really know WTH happened to poor Matt.

(Doesn't look like anyone was too hot to call an ambulance as the obligatory crane shot pulls out while "The lovers kiss as sparks and rain dance around their feet.")
But wait... !

Here, hava heart cookie.
THE END

Uh....

I see that you were gunning for an emotional roller coaster.
For me this was more of a style mosaic of distinct quality pieces abutted to one another.

Overall I liked it despite the herky-jerkiness of its flow (an issue which director commentaries go on and on endlessly about).
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 16th, 2011, 12:27pm; Reply: 17

Quoted from LC
I think you're all being nitpickety (which is actually our job, & I will be a bit below too, but...)

This is wonderful! Should be 'Short Script of the Day'.

Hey LC!

Thanks for the read.
I'm glad you got some pleasure out of this timely valentine.
Would have been something if this was randomly picked on 2/14 as short of the day!

Quoted from LC

It's like a hybrid of Rebel without a Cause, Amelie, obv. West Side Story, & Baz Lurman's R&J. All of them came to mind when I was reading this. I think the soppy & serious blend make it what it is. I half expected the characters to break into song and some of the action sequences read like chess moves.

Wow, Amelie. That's some nice company to be even mentioned near.
I tried hard to discipline myself to capture the flavor of those stories here.
It's not something I normally dabble in, so this was quite an education for me.

Quoted from LC

I don't have a problem with the breaking up of the spaced action lines. Made it easier to read and keep track.

In the interest of 'feedback' - I've got to wonder at you using Intercut when you did (cld be wrong?). This does require a second read. And, this particular wording irritated me -  'door opens some' 'the apron lifts some'.

You and James both have valid points about the action description.
I will reevaluate this in a new draft.
Perhaps stick to action staking for the actual montage/intercuts.
I have seen "Intercut" dome this way on a few scripts here.
So, i thought I would give it a try.
This is the first script I've ever had, V.O., flashbacks and montages.
It's all new tools I'm trying to get comfortable with.
You have a good point about the "some", that will change.

Quoted from LC

And in the interests of making this truly romantic I would change Matt's line prior to the flashback - the one where he says,

'Can't do that to my father... family would be devastated' etc.

As with Romeo & Juliet they're aware of this already. Their love means this is exactly what will happen, but they do it anyway because they've no choice - they're in love. Brett, you lost me there for a mo'. Guy comes across as a wimp and Daddy's boy. You do fix it further on, but still, I'd change it, because...

... there's no question Matt will run off with her! He'd chose Emily over his father. He has to. Please change that line or just have him give her a 'look' re the gravity of their decision & the obv. consequences.

Hmm, I can see how the dialogue there plays a bit on the nose.
I'll have to look at that, I'm planning a new draft later this month, likely.

Quoted from LC

Lastly, I'm with Mc re the Narrator. Twas a bit jarring esp. at the end. I would change this to being the voices/characters of Mrs Almac and Mrs Demoula. Have Mrs Almac sprinkle cinnamon over the hot bun on the countertop and Mrs Demoula decorate a Petit Four. Would up the ante imo. Just a suggestion.

Overall, inventive reincarnation of an old theme. Brilliant. Well done :)

If there's narration at the end of the new draft.
I agree with you that identifying the individual is a good idea.
This was a dense write for me, lots of elements in play every page.
And I missed some fairly basic things getting caught up in those details.

Thanks so much for your comments!

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 16th, 2011, 12:30pm; Reply: 18

Quoted from jwent6688

I disagree. Thanks for calling me out. I guess I need to make my point. #1 your chewing up pages too fast. one minute= one page. I know you know that. screenwriting 101.

Every bit of your action lines looks like a montage. Yes! Space every line in a montage scene. Tighten them otherwise. I actually think that helps the read IMO. I'm just used to it reading scripts with two or three lines of action grouped together between dialogue.

If you ever wrote a feature like this it would be 150 pages... plus...

James



James,

Heh, 150 page feature indeed.
There was such a wide visual palette for this one, some stuff got away from me.
I will try to minimize the action stacking outside the intercuts.
Look for those and other changes in the next draft.

Thanks again for tearing into my valentine! :P

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 17th, 2011, 11:33am; Reply: 19

Quoted from LC

If it were a feature I'd prob. have a problem with it too. But it ain't.  It's a 'short'. Breaking it up actually helped guide me through and enabled me to visualise those action scenes better.

No brush with you James, just interested to see how more SS'ers view it. I'll say no more, for now.


LC,

I can see how this style would grate on a feature.
I thought stacking the action might make the heavy visuals easier to digest.
Perhaps I took it a bit too far for some and need to look into that.

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 17th, 2011, 11:46am; Reply: 20

Quoted from grademan
Hey Brett,

Thanks for the VD story!

I can see it was done along the lines of the classics as the rest have already noted. Interesting. Some comments.

Hey Gary!

Thanks for the valentine read and your welcome!
I thought it would be a trip to write a story in this vein.
It's totally outside my wheelhouse, so why not?
Shorts to me are mental floss for in between features. ;)

Quoted from grademan

STYLE CHOICES:

NARRATOR is too generic. I prefer to know the name esp if one implies he is close to the story.

V.O. for 10-15 line was a bit much. I kept going “let’s get to it.”

You're not the first to being up the narrator issue.
Honestly, when I started writing, I wasn't even sure who the narrator was.
And I think that ambiguity had led to these kinds of comments.
I'll make a change there and reevaluate the length of the voice over. Thanks.

Quoted from grademan

INTERCUTS were confusing. I assumed you were intercutting by line. Still hard to follow.

SINGLE line description is close to action stacking which may be a little intense for a romantic tale. Actually, when I read this, I hit the return carriage on my mental typewriter every time I finished a line.  Looked nice,

The INTERCUT is something I picked up from some scripts here.
Thought I would give it a try since this script has a music video quality to it.
I went with action stacking because of the nature of the visuals too.
I'll refine those ideas in the next draft.
I'd entertain any proposed alternatives for the INTERCUT style too.

Quoted from grademan

OTHER STUFF

Favorite lines:
MATT
That’s a nice first name.
EMILY
I like your first name too.

Favorite ready to dance moment:

MATT
You’re on. Tonight, we rumble.

Favorite moment: Knife tip trembles a millimeter shy of Emily’s stomach,

Favorite name; DeMoulas (the money?)

GARY

I'm glad there were several "signature" moments for you in the script.
I tried to set up as much iconic imagery and dialogue as I could.
It's kinda like icon stacking when emulating so many classic elements in 13 pages. :P
I may have gone a bit too far with the tragic stuff in the first draft, we'll see.
Demoulas was the actual name of the supermarket in my neighborhood.
It's way too cool a name for me to make up, I swear!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeMoulas/Market_Basket

I'm glad that this story was able to work some magic on you.
I'm pretty stoked about reworking it for another draft.
I hope you had a good valentine day yourself!

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 23rd, 2011, 12:11pm; Reply: 21

Quoted from Ryan1
Brett,

I liked a lot of your descriptions, "Angular ice blue text glows and hums."  Really set the scene well for what was to follow.  Dialogue was okay, but I think you overused the narrator at the beginning, as his VOs ran for two pages.

R&J is always good source material.  Having two rival markets was a novel twist on this.


Ryan,

Thanks for taking the time to give this a read.
Always good to see you around, how the Christmas script work out?
I agree about the narrator, that's been trimmed and re-purposed in the new draft.
The rival market store layout is true, my hometown when I was a wee lad.
In my mind, I saw them have turf wars after hours, I was a weird kid. :P
Somehow that translated into me writing out this valentine fable.

Quoted from Ryan1

The rumble in the parking lot was funny.  Reminded me a lot of the free-for-all battle in Anchorman because it was so over the top.  Then the joust scene was right out of Jackass.

Heh, two movies that never occurred to me when I wrote this, but I see your point.
I always dig it when folks see stuff like that and make those kind of connections.
With short in particular, I always put it all on the table and go for broke.
I just try to structure the set up so the over the top stuff works for the reader.

Quoted from Ryan1

But, then the tone takes this jarring turn when Ray plunges the butcher knife into Matt.   It made no sense to me and frankly I think it sabotaged the end of the script.  They go from slapping price tags on each other to that?  I understand you were sticking to the R&J storyline there, but the original stayed true to its tone throughout the story while yours jumped from light hearted farce to deadly serious drama.

You know, I don't disagree with you.
All I can say is on the day, that's just how it came out of me.
I decided to go for broke and shoehorn full blown tragedy on top of everything else.
I don't regret the decision, I swung for the bleachers to see if it would work.
I'd rather try and know it doesn't fit, than play it safe.
I'd much rather have to reel in a second draft than try to punch it up.
There will be a tonal change to the second draft, for sure.

Quoted from Ryan1
  
Some of the exchanges in that last scene were a little cringe-worthy:  "His blood is the same color as mine, and yours."

And to go from a death scene to a shot of cinnamon bun with heart frosting and being wished "Happy Valentines Day" was another jarring tonal shift.

Overall, I liked the piece up until the stabbing.  Then it fell apart, IMO.  But good on ya for trying something new.

Ryan

That blood dialogue will more than likely hit the floor in the second draft.
It felt Shakespearean at the time, so I went with it.
I was happy with how this came out overall.
I honestly didn't know if I had a romantic fable inside me to bring to life.
It was thrilling to get out of my manly "wheelhouse" with this one, felt great.
Look for a second draft post Scar Tissue OWC.
Thanks again for your time. I wish you the best with your original properties.

Keep writing and rewriting!

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 23rd, 2011, 12:20pm; Reply: 22

Quoted from reuel51
I've made the same decision before with stacking the action line by line. When I read my own, it made sense and read fast. I couldn't understand why some of the feedback I got had a problem with the action. The biggest gripe seemed to be "too much action". After reading this, I've realized it wasn't too much action, it was that everything was broken up so much that the readers were dwelling on every little bit of action as if the one sentence was going to have tremendous meaning in the end. What this does is causes readers to expend a lot of mental energy remembering each and every move that every character is making. It's tiresome and that is why they complained about "too much action"

Brian,

Thanks muchly for giving my script your time.
Action description format is a tricky fickle beast.
The nuances of the rules change from genre to genre it seems.
And that's cool, I like the challenge of a moving target.
Yes, action stacking does seem to draw extra attention most of the time.
It's something I'll be more sensitive about in the second draft.
I think making my intercuts stand out with punctuation might help too.

Quoted from reuel51

No, I don't think you have too much action, I just think you need to combine some of the action lines together, that way, I, the reader, can pick and choose which specific actions are the most important to me, and I will skim over the rest. I still get the overall picture in my head, but now, I'm not holding onto every single price sticker pattern left on a DaMoulas or an Almacs.

There will be less action stacking in teh second draft, about 50% less.
And I will distinguish the intercut sequences to assist the read.

Quoted from reuel51

Anyway, I really liked what you've done with a classic theme. The silliness of using supermarkets was brilliant, and it played well into the parking lot rumble. The fight was fun and over the top. But then the stabbing came, and as others have mentioned, the tone of the script took such a sharp turn, it was jarring. Then it turns again to something profound about blood being the same color. I like that Ray takes things too far, but to stab and kill the guy? That was too much for what the rest of the script is about. We're watching teenage boys fight with bread and sticker guns. If Ray was to walk up to Matt and simply cold cock him in the nose, breaking it and causing blood to gush, you would keep within the confines of the silly tone. That's just a thought.

Kudos on putting out a Valentine's day script. This was a fun read.

Brian

I'm glad enjoyed the shift from romantic to over the top stock boy gang fights.
My childhood memories are full of that kind of stuff from my home town.
It was a lot of fun to harness one of those and wrangle it into a valentine script.
I admit, the tragic element does not quite jibe.
But at the time on the day, I just went for it.
I didn't want to secretly wonder if I could have pulled it off.
Better to lay it all on the line and have to rein the story in subsequent drafts.
I've never written anything like this before, it was a lot of fun.
Look for the second draft in early March. :)
If there's something you want eyes on, let me know!

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 25th, 2011, 11:19am; Reply: 23

Quoted from Craiger6
Hey E.D.,

I’ve really appreciated the feedback you’ve given me on some of my stuff, and I know you are always going out of your way to read others’ stuff, so I wanted to pipe in here.

Hey Craig!

It's great to hear my ramblings have offered you some insight.
Thanks for taking the time to go through this little valentine.

Quoted from Craiger6

I thought this was very interesting, and while I enjoyed it for the most part, there were also some things that I was on the fence about.  As James mentioned in the first comment, initially, I got the feeling that this was too back and forth between serious and silly.  However, the more I think about it, I think that was clearly your intent.  I’m not sure how I feel about it one way or the other, but kudos for sticking to your guns and having fun with it.

Oh yah, at some point in the writing process, the "tragedy button" got pushed.
For better or worse, I got obsessed with the idea of going that route.
I agree the result is uneven, but I'm pleased I saw my vision through.
I'd much rather have to pull the tone back then be timid and try to expand it later.
The second draft reflects these changes in tone and I'm pretty stoked about them.

Quoted from Craiger6

All in all, I think it was a successful effort and good read.  Some of the dialogue worked better for me than other parts.  I kind of agree with Ryan about the whole “his blood is the same color as mine…” line.  I also picked out another one.

The dialogue is a mix of Shakespearean and 20th century vernacular.
In the process, some cheese may have slipped through the filter. ;)
The "blood" line is not in the second draft.
What was the other line you picked out?

Quoted from Craiger6

Anyway, below are some notes I took while reading:

P.3 – “We can’t keep meeting like this.”

Forgive me, but it seems kind of cliché.  I think you’ve got better chops than that.

And you prove me right in the next scene.  I love the idea of having them fall for each other on this catwalk.  I thought this was really cool, and loved the way you set it up.  Very inventive.

P. 5 – “I don’t make deals, but I do make promises.”

Nice line.

p. 3 That line is the way it is, to set up the "job interview" joke.
       I'll take a look at it again today and see how it reads.

I'm pretty thrilled with the catwalk flashback.
It's my first flashback ever in a script.
It's a mash up of the R&J balcony scene and the ladders in "The Fantasticks".
But uses the supermarket motif to pay homage to both those stories.
I had a ball using modern sets to invoke those classic stories.
It's like putting a fresh coat of paint on a tried and true story.

Quoted from Craiger6

P. 7 – “RAY: Then we settle it with a rumble.”

So, I realize we’ve got a Romeo & Juliet meets Westside Story going on here, but I think I would have preferred you to contemporize the dialogue.  This is a stupid example, but maybe make the characters some meat heads from the Jersey Shore.  I know, I know, that’s a shitty idea, but the point is you can make them talk and sound like kids from 2011 and still get your point across.

(Updated after reading: As I said earlier, I think it was clearly your intention to toggle back and forth between serious and silly, so maybe some contemporary guidos talking the way guidos talk, night actually work well for you here.  I don’t know, just a thought.

I really appreciate you going above and beyond with your detailed suggestion.
I did think of something along those lines, but I didn't use it and here's why...
I wanted to play the "race card" through the family names and store colors only.
Bringing actual racial stereotypes into it kills the timeless quality of the story.
Timelessness in a script is more about what you don't use than what you do.
And I wanted to do my best to capture that so the story resonates with all races.

Quoted from Craiger6

P. 9 – “A chubby Demoula boy takes the bread upside the head. He grimaces and falls, out cold.
Ray leans over the fallen comrade. He rips the dough in half and sniffs the insides. He tests a piece and
spits it out.”

Haha, well done.  Nice imagery.

Anyway, I thought this was a nice effort Brett, and I enjoyed it.  Thanks for sharing and I hope this helps.

Craig

Heh, that "testing the bread" thing just happened on the page in the moment.
Sourdough is a very dense bread, which makes for a better projectile.
Yeah, I know, I'm weird, but the devilish fun is in the details. ;)
Having the boys treat the absurd battle seriously helps suspend reader disbelief.
As Ken Jeong says in "The Hangover", "It's funny because he's fat." :P

Thanks for the great comments, draft two will be up after the Scar Tissue OWC.

Let me know when you have some new work up.
Keep writing and rewriting!

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, March 13th, 2011, 11:12am; Reply: 24

Quoted from bert
I decided to save your Valentine's Day script for Valentine's Day.  Thoughts as follows:
  
Right at the front, the period after DEMOULAS threw me for a bit -- occurring so early in the story, I did not recognize it as a slug.  Better to slap an EXT in front of it and lose the period.  And it should go without saying that I would give similar treatment to ALMACS.  And reading further still, you need to lose those slugline periods throughout.  Why are you even doing that?


Yikes! Replying a month later to your post. I'm such a douche. :/
Sorry, I missed this, Bert, my bad.

Wow, I have no idea why I broke mini slug format with the periods.
I will remove those unsightly periods from the new draft.
It's weird how you can get something in your head like that, as if it were fact.

Quoted from bert

Is Ray a Demoula?  You should establish that up front, yes or no.  And a fine point -- later you mention the blood on Ray's apron, but the apron is red.  Not very visual at all.  Better white, or some other color.

Yes, it's stated through dialogue that Emily is Ray's younger sister.
But you are right, I should include that juicy tidbit in his intro.
I know I wrote it in there at some point that Ray's apron is actually white.
It's his way of standing out from the troops, so to speak.
I'll make these needed refinements in the new draft, thanks.

Quoted from bert

I have buzzed over the comments, not terribly thorough, but I did notice some back and forth about the single-sentence descriptions.  For what it is worth, I say that is a great way to go.  White space, reads quicker, no problems.

What I think I'm going to do here is try to please both ends of the spectrum.
Intense punctuated action stacking for the two intercut scenes.
Then try to bunch up the rest of them into two lines of action when I can.
Hopefully this will tighten the pages but give it white space for visual splashes.

Quoted from bert

The fight scene is wonderfully absurd, but I agree with the others that the stabbing is way too jarring for the tone you have established.

I would recommend this fix:  Why not have Emily with her charging carts plunge into the center of the joust and the horrified boys thump HER instead of each other?  Of course the blow is not fatal, but you still maintain that sense of ironic tragedy the story demands, and you can continue with your conclusion mostly the way you have it -- but without the knives.

This is not the sort of script I typically seek out, but I think you did a good job with it.  Some good humor, with a light touch.  But I would re-examine the overt violence that occurs late in the story, which kind of undermines what has gone before.

What can I say? I got caught in the moment on the page.
I decided to swing for the cheap seats and shoehorn full blown tragedy in there.
It seemed like a good idea at the time.
I don't regret going for broke, I like the fact I'm game enough to try it.
But I recognize it needs to be reigned back in for structure purposes.
I have a discarded idea from the first draft I'm going to use in place of back stabbing.
Hopefully between that and a narration and format polish, this will shine better.

Thanks for the insights, I'm really proud of this one, between you and I.
This story and tone is so outside my wheelhouse, I wasn't sure I could pull it off.

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, March 13th, 2011, 11:50am; Reply: 25

Quoted from RayW
B-man!
R-man!

Lookit your fancy WGA reg! You look so... grown up and mature when you do that.
Maybe I'll grow up someday and quit being such a putzer.

It appears I'm the putzer for missing this post from last month.
I'm embarrassed and apologize for the oversight.
I always register, never underestimate the laziness or immorality of the human race.
Between you and me, I like getting a little certificate in the mail too. ;)

Quoted from RayW

Yeah. I ran across that "Who the h3ll is narrating this?!" thing back with my first butcher house thingie.
I don't think much of it, but the rest of the planet gets up in arms over this surprisingly critical issue.  ::)
Gotta specify your narrators, even male or female, and certainly if it's one of the characters.
For FALLEN they musta had a duck.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with the criticism on the narrator vagueness.
Honestly, I'm not even sure if I knew whom the character was when I started.
I self imposed OWC rules on myself for this one.
It was my Valentine OWC for one, how very bachelor of me. :P
The V.O. will definitely get a clean up in the second draft.
LoL Fallen, that script must have a truckload of voice over.

Quoted from RayW

Okay!
Read it straight through with no significant hitches.
Pretty impressive.

Yeah, it does waffle back and forth between regular, silly-fun and a little too serious.
Your contemporary Capulet and Montague scenario is well constructed.
I don't have a problem with teens speaking in cliches.
Kids are too inexperienced to know otherwise. Lookit the teen submissions we get here.  ;D
The exchange on the sign catwalk was beautiful.
Favorite line: "The pair use the valentine placard to 'shake hands'."  That was really nice.

I had a goofy grin on my face the entire time I wrote that scene.
I thought it was an effective mash up of R&J and the ladder scene in The Fantasticks.
The supermarkets on the same corner is actually from my youth.
In my adolescent brain, I always saw them have gang fights after hours.
I guess you could say this is the first script to be somewhat autobiographical. ;)

Quoted from RayW

So, at this point the story has gone from white bread setup into corn bread romance.
Fine.
Cool.

Then it turns into... fruitcake.
Fine.
Cool.
Your scenario is an action riot!
It's great!

Someone earlier in the thread said the fight made them think of Jackass.
It's not often you can invoke R&J and Jackass and make it work.
This script was way outside my comfort zone as far as genre goes.
Regardless of outcome, I was proud of myself for giving it a go at least.
This one was a very satisfying write for me.

Quoted from RayW

And then "Ray drives the butcher knife into Matt from behind."

DUUUUUUDE?! W? T? H?!

Kiss the bleeding boy - Sparks shower endlessly - Tra-la-la-la-la! - And we never really know WTH happened to poor Matt.

(Doesn't look like anyone was too hot to call an ambulance as the obligatory crane shot pulls out while "The lovers kiss as sparks and rain dance around their feet.")
But wait... !

Here, hava heart cookie.
THE END

Uh....

I see that you were gunning for an emotional roller coaster.
For me this was more of a style mosaic of distinct quality pieces abutted to one another.

Overall I liked it despite the herky-jerkiness of its flow (an issue which director commentaries go on and on endlessly about).

What can I say? It seemed like a good idea at the time.
And I'm happy I went for it instead of playing it safe.
I'd much rather have to reel in a second draft, then have to kick it up some notches.
It was a lot of tone shifts in thirteen pages.
There was an unused action beat cut from the first draft.
I think I'm going to modify the gang fight and sharpen the narration.
Instead of invoking back stabby tragedy, I'll get another Shakespeare trope in there.
Thanks for the Valentine thoughts on the script.
Your comments are always welcome, pal!

So you uploading a coming of age leprechaun tale of vengeance this weekend? :P

Regards,
E.D.


***Second Draft Coming Soon***
Posted by: rc1107, March 28th, 2011, 3:18pm; Reply: 26
Hey Bret,

I like to sit down and read a script all at once without any interruptions, and since I only had an hour before I started making dinner, I figured I'd check this out first and then 'Red Sun' after dinner.  (And dessert, if the kids are good.  So far, they're not.)

Anyway, I thought this was a cute little charming story.  Well, charming until the stabbing of course.

I saw you were trying to be true to both the comedy element and the romantic element of both WSS and R&J, so while I was reading, I'd figured you were going to be true to the tragic element of those stories.  So, even though I was waiting for it, the violence still caught me by surprise.  There's definately a shock factor in this story.

Honestly, I knew you were going to keep true to the stories, but I thought you'd stick with the lightheartedness version you had going.  I thought that, after Ray lost the joust, he would bombard Matt with all the bloodied steaks he had butchered that morning.  Then, Emily would come crying to Matt smothered in the bloody steak, and she would piss Ray off by her exclaiming she would become a vegetarian.  How would it stick to the plotline of R&J?  Because she would take out a bunch of green onions and start eating them and Ray calls out 'No!  There's a recall on those!  You're going to get a light food poisoning!'

Anyway, I kind of thought you were going to go down that kind of route with the ending.

I liked the story overall.  Like I said, it was cute and charming with a great little holiday motif.  The way you wrote your action I don't mind.  With the heavy action it really helped to separate what was happening.

I did get a little confused a couple of times though.  Like with the action lines at the end of page 11 going into page 12.  I wasn't sure if Ray had stabbed Emily or if Ray had gotten stabbed somehow.  It says blood driplets hit the ground and Emily's bloody hands grip the blade.  Were her hands bloody before she gripped the blade, or after she gripped the blade.  Then, later on it says Ray 'slumps' into his sister's arms.  The way that reads, it looks like Ray was stabbed.  But then somewhere it says the knife was millimeter's away from Emily's stomach, so I didn't think anybody got stabbed.

That part was a little confusing and I didn't notice anybody else mention anything about it in any of their posts, so maybe it was just me and I didn't comprehend something.

But it was a great Valentine's parody nonetheless.  It read very fast and smooth, so you did a good job getting the story across.  I think it would make a cute charming little short film.

- Mark
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, March 29th, 2011, 9:50am; Reply: 27

Quoted from rc1107
Hey Bret,

I like to sit down and read a script all at once without any interruptions, and since I only had an hour before I started making dinner, I figured I'd check this out first and then 'Red Sun' after dinner.  (And dessert, if the kids are good.  So far, they're not.)

Anyway, I thought this was a cute little charming story.  Well, charming until the stabbing of course.

I saw you were trying to be true to both the comedy element and the romantic element of both WSS and R&J, so while I was reading, I'd figured you were going to be true to the tragic element of those stories.  So, even though I was waiting for it, the violence still caught me by surprise.  There's definately a shock factor in this story.

Hey Mark,

Thanks for dusting off my self imposed Valentine OWC.
I wanted to test myself and get outside of my wheelhouse, so to speak.
So, somewhat like yourself, this one's loosely based on a dream that I had as a boy.
Well, it was more of a daydream, but still, heh.
The origin is essentially true, I grew up in a town with rival supermarkets.
I fantasized that they would have these grocery turf wars after hours.
I decided to push myself by going the WSS and R&J route for a story arc.
I'm not a fan of WSS, but I made myself watch the film and take notes.
There's also a bit of "The Fantasticks" in there, a R&J musical take.
I liked the idea of pushing myself out of my comfort zone.
After notes, the script took three afternoons to complete.
The only OWC rule I didn't observe was the ten page limit.

While writing in the moment, I decided to reach for the tragic elements.
It wasn't planned that way, just how it came out on the page.
That's why I take extensive notes, treatment, even index card story arcs for some.
All that prep work gives me the confidence to let her rip on the page.
I'm immersed enough in the material to be spontaneous during the write.
Well, at least hope I have what it takes to be spontaneous.
I don't regret going for the tragedy, but I do agree it's a jarring tonal shift.

Quoted from rc1107

Honestly, I knew you were going to keep true to the stories, but I thought you'd stick with the lightheartedness version you had going.  I thought that, after Ray lost the joust, he would bombard Matt with all the bloodied steaks he had butchered that morning.  Then, Emily would come crying to Matt smothered in the bloody steak, and she would piss Ray off by her exclaiming she would become a vegetarian.  How would it stick to the plotline of R&J?  Because she would take out a bunch of green onions and start eating them and Ray calls out 'No!  There's a recall on those!  You're going to get a light food poisoning!'

Heh, wow. You got the poison element in there, good on you.
That's a pretty wild take on it, Shakespeare is such fun to play with.
It's got a timeless quality that translate well with modern times and issues.
I guess it's because his character motivations are always primal.
They truly never go out of style.

I'm actually about to upload the new draft of this story.
The tragic tonal shift at the end has been changed as well as a few other things.
I decided to emulate another R&J trope not used in the first draft.
I was going to use this initially, but the back stab on the day won out.
The rest is a narrative nip and tuck and some overall sharpening.
I tweaked the action description and made the intercuts stand out more.
Integrated most of the non-intercut action description to minimize stacking.
I'd appreciate you taking a read and comparing and contrasting, if you don't mind.

Quoted from rc1107

I did get a little confused a couple of times though.  Like with the action lines at the end of page 11 going into page 12.  I wasn't sure if Ray had stabbed Emily or if Ray had gotten stabbed somehow.  It says blood driplets hit the ground and Emily's bloody hands grip the blade.  Were her hands bloody before she gripped the blade, or after she gripped the blade.  Then, later on it says Ray 'slumps' into his sister's arms.  The way that reads, it looks like Ray was stabbed.  But then somewhere it says the knife was millimeter's away from Emily's stomach, so I didn't think anybody got stabbed.

That part was a little confusing and I didn't notice anybody else mention anything about it in any of their posts, so maybe it was just me and I didn't comprehend something.

But it was a great Valentine's parody nonetheless.  It read very fast and smooth, so you did a good job getting the story across.  I think it would make a cute charming little short film.

- Mark

Oh yeah, I can see why that would be confusing at the bottom of the page.
I didn't think of it at the time, I'll double check that today.
The blood droplets are from Emily's hands around the thrusting blade.

It would be an expensive short, but something I'd like to see too.
Would be a nice extended sequence for "Glee" or something like that.
The ill fated lovers theme would play nicely into that shows convoluted romances.

I don't really write my shorts with economy in mind for a producer to scoop up.
They mostly are mental floss in between feature work.
I use them to test myself and expand my skill set for future projects.
A ghost story. Cop action thriller. Romance Fantasy. Diverse group they be. Heh.

Thanks again for being an exemplary member and digging through my work.
I hope you'll take a look at the new draft of this, if you have the chance.
Drop me a line anytime if you'd like a set of eyes on something of yours.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: rc1107, March 29th, 2011, 5:30pm; Reply: 28

Quoted from E.D.
I take extensive notes, treatment, even index card story arcs for some.
All that prep work gives me the confidence to let her rip on the page.


That's pretty much exactly how I do it.  Even for my short stories, too.  Sometimes, a story's stewed around in my head for about six or seven months before I even open up a word processing file for it.  Although 'but you can learn to play', I did very differently.  I just sat down and wrote it, no storyboard, not even any notes.


Quoted from E.D.
I'd appreciate you taking a read and comparing and contrasting, if you don't mind.


Yeah, no problem.  Just drop me a line when it's posted.


Quoted from E.D.
I don't really write my shorts with economy in mind for a producer to scoop up.


Before I didn't, and even sometimes now I don't care about whether a certain story gets made or not because I wrote it mainly for my amusement.  But I really want to be able to start putting at least SOMETHING on my resume to send it to agents, so I've been trying to write stories that would be relatively easy to produce, but still sends a powerful statement.

I've gotten a lot of people asking me if they could film a certain project, but so far that I'VE seen, nobody's come through with a finished product.

I'll remember to check, but let me know when the new draft of this is up in case I miss it.

- Mark
Posted by: grademan, March 31st, 2011, 4:07pm; Reply: 29
Hey ED, I see you completed a new draft. I still like it a lot but have some points to consider. Good intercutting. I realize my  suggestions are just that.

Gary

LOGLINE
“wrong side of the parking lot”

ONE
Hand painted signs fill the windows
jukes > floats
,necessary to change > to change
hatred between the stores > families

TWO
the rivalry was over – sounds like high school > the war was over
the last vo > I was so young...
the town gossiped for years - too many people knew > the town talked about that night for years

FOUR
It’s, letters > no comma

SIX
my baby sister > my sister

SEVEN
you Almacs pretty boy > awkward
you are > you’re
you Demoula thug > awkward
winner takes the parking lot > this may be unrealistic
Ray blanches > balks
You’re on. > not needed
Need something to scare customer besides turning off the lights?

EIGHT
sticker wounds > paper cuts?

TEN
Should be chanting “joust” before the leaders snap for their mops?

ELEVEN
Death to all Almacs > awk
My name, is Matt > no comma
her brother > Ray
Why him > Em, why him?

TWELVE
Ray should hold Emily!
Drop their aprons > why?

THIRTEEN
Ray should be there too!


     
Posted by: Sandra Elstree., March 31st, 2011, 8:54pm; Reply: 30

Hello E.D., I'll first give my notes and general impressions and then suggestions after I assimilate. (Sounds like I'm goin' Borg or somethin' maybe I am  ;D)

Lose the extra space after Fade In

The first shot I thought should read as aerial.

I had trouble with the opening image. The breeze being described with the bell. For the breeze to matter, the bell had to be outside. I guess I was getting confused because I was asking:

What kind of food markets?  Like in Europe? Open stalls? Perhaps from my trips my mind is still stuck over there. Here though, weather is a factor and people don't do much in parking lots in the winter. The "bare trees" in your opening led me to thinking it was autumn; but come to think of it now, I'm not sure that mattered so much. Perhaps, you can nail the description a bit more than just strip mall. The strip malls here are really small things. You'd never see two big grocery stores at one strip mall because they only need one anchor.

Matt’s description seemed unnecessary, sandy blond, strong chin. You could cast anyone. If he's good looking, then that's good enough. If that's what he needs to be.

I don’t think you’re supposed to use italics in a script.

The fat man wasn’t introd as a character.

Pricing guns aren’t used anymore because we have UPC coding, but I see that we're working from Old Emily's memory which brings me to:

What's the meaning of this piece? I think it's loaded at the core with sentiment, even though it's got this funny kind of "war" going on in its middle.

My advice is to take Old Emily and show her. Don't just have her in voice over because

How romantic is a story where we can't see our main characters?

So

Show Matt, too.

And to make it real good

Show Ray. Alive and kicking. Which means, he never died of course.

So what happened?

Why not start this story with Old Emily, Old Matt, and Old Ray all together at the table drinking and playing cards or something. And someone walks in, brings "IT" up, and Matt perhaps tells the story of how his innocent family came into town trying to make a go of it, but Ray made it hard from the get-go. ...

The rest is history. Perhaps, so could show some quick "alternate flashes" of varying points of view. One, where everyone gets blown up or radiated or who knows what. And, as my little girl once had implanted into her head by her older brother and LOVED the idea and used it again and again:

AND THEY ALL DIED!!!  ;D

So, we might learn at the end of this that good old Ray and Emily and Matt are just ghosts now. Perhaps they dissolve into their translucence, get fed up with the cards. And...

Decide to go back to the parking lot and live happily ever after, fighting with their grocery biz.  ;D

Ray needs to have a girlfriend. Maybe Matt decides that his cousin is a good catch for him.

I don't see this as so much of a romance, but more of a humorous look at how life can work out. In order for it to be a romance, you need to lose the voice over and bring these people into more intimate situations. Even Matt and Ray, they need to have a reason to dislike each other-- a reason more than just opposition.

Hey, I just thought of a cool idea-- maybe Matt and Ray get together in the next life and pool their strengths, creating the first Super Store!  ;D

I hope this helps, E.D.

I appreciate being able to critique your work,

Sandra


Posted by: rc1107, March 31st, 2011, 9:22pm; Reply: 31
All right!  Round 2, here we go:

Did you make any changes to the description blocks in the beginning?  I seemed to have a better understanding of the setting, but I'm not sure if it was because you brushed it up or because this was my second time reading it.

Lol.  I just noticed.  Emily Demoula.  E.D.  (Was that on purpose or sub-consciously?)

Was Ray 22 in the first draft?  I think he should be older than Matt, definately, but only by a year or two.  I think five years might be pushing it just a little.

"It's, letters."  -  Grademan mentioned that in his post.  It might read better as "It's... letters."

And I forgot to mention it in the first draft, but their greeting "I like your first name" made me lol.  That was funny.

Yeah, I think you did good with the intercuts.  I never had a problem understanding them in the first draft.

I liked having Matt defend himself with the knife sharpener.

I'm still a little unclear as to what happens with Emily's interception.  It still reads like she gets skewered, having her eyes bulge like that and her hands bleeding.  I know you told me the blood was just from Emily's hand around the blade, but I would've been lost reading that if you haven't told me.

Eww.  She touches his face and strokes his neck with bloody hands.  I'd tell that bitch to go use some soap first.

Ahh, so you opted for the happy ending this time.  I think it does work out better this way, even though it gets away from where Romeo and Juliet ended up going.

But, with Old Matt and Old Emily switching up their lines at the ending, that kind of sent it over the sappy lovey-dovey edge.  That might've been a little too cheesy.  For some reason, it didn't seem cheesy to me in the last draft when only Old Emily said it.  But in this draft, for some reason, it definately crosses that line for me.

I was going to suggest fitting Ray in as an old man somehow, too, but Gary beat me to it.  In fact, I'd like to see if this bakery is in the strip mall, too.  And if so, which bookend?  The Demoula's end or the Almac's?

(And a small part of me was waiting to see if Old Emily's hands were scarred from where she gripped the knife as she was icing the cinnabun at the end.)

Yeah, I do like this version better.  It seemed to read crisper and I had better images in my head, not that it wasn't crisp in the first draft.  Again, I don't know if it's small changes you made that enhanced the read a little, or if it's I'm reading it a second time and discovering more stuff my brain just grazed through last time.

And I do think this alternate ending fits better with the scope of the romantic piece this was supposed to be.  The Valentine theme.


Quoted from electric dreamer
I decided to emulate another R&J trope not used in the first draft


I thought I figured out what that was when I read this at work earlier this afternoon, but for the life of me, I can't remember.  I've even gone back and read this again tonight to see where I noticed it earlier, and I just can't find it now.  It's ticking me off.

- Mark
Posted by: khamanna, April 1st, 2011, 11:35am; Reply: 32
Hi E.D.

Read it!
It started with the VO and it was just a bit long for me. All you're saying that Demoulas and Almacs stores were across from each other. Demoulas came first and Almacs opened there second.
I liked the fact that it's visual but I think you could cut some of it. To get to Emily and Matt faster.
Their love is in the center of your story and I don't think you let us stay on them long enough. I don't know anything about them, their dreams what they are like, what sparked their love... You have a little in there but I'd want more.


The best part of dialog was for me "Why him" "Why not him" and "I like your first name" "I like your first name too" - I think you could have more of that.

Overall it's a good story for me and I liked it, I just think that it could be even better than that. More of Emily and Matt please!
--just an opinion of course.

-hey, our avatars are the same?
Posted by: jwent6688, April 1st, 2011, 5:47pm; Reply: 33
Brett,

Gave this another look. Some of the writing is still comes off funny...

"Emily freight trains a half dozen shopping carts together and
aims the docked carts at the locked front door." Don't write carts twice. We know the door is locked....

"Emily docks several shopping carts together. She aims the train at the front door." - Just reads easier to me.

I thought Emily grabbed Rays knife with her bare hand. Did she get stabbed? Had to read it twice to picture what was going on in the picture.

I like the new ending better. It suits this story. I just found it a tedious read in alot of places. I think its clear in your mind when you write it, but I had to go back and re-read a couple things. To me, less is always more in screenwriting. Many will not agree.

Overall, good work. some good lines and the parking lot rumble is still funny. Liked the smashing of the demoura sign too. Good visual there.

James
Posted by: Ryan1, April 1st, 2011, 7:10pm; Reply: 34
Brett,

Big improvement with this version.  The ending finally fits the tone of the rest of the story.  I wish you could find a way to slash that VO at the beginning to maybe half a page and then jump right into the story.  It almost felt like a little too much stage setting there.  I had to keep reminding myself that this was taking place decades ago, like the 50's I'm assuming.  Maybe a few more period details to really hammer the era home for us.

I don't know, I still have mixed feelings about the rumble.  The story starts with this tale of forbidden young love, told with a straight face.  Then comes the bread torpedoes and sticker guns, which takes us almost into an alternate universe where someone can get knocked out by a loaf of bread.    Don't get me wrong, the torpedoes are funny and the image of these guys turtling under shopping carts to weather the dough assault is also funny.  Although, I would  liked to have seen the unconscious fat kid wake up and start gnawing on the loaf that coldcocked him.    

I guess my point is, with the silliness of the rumble, it's harder to accept the deadly seriousness of the knife fight that follows.  

That being said, I did like the ending.  Making us believe that Emily just got ventilated, then showing how she stopped it just n time.  Makes everyone realize how out of hand everything has gotten.

So, good job on the rewrite.  It could still be tightened in places, but it's a real improvement.

Ryan
Posted by: wonkavite (Guest), April 1st, 2011, 8:04pm; Reply: 35
Hi ED -

I think this COULD work.  The last page - with the payoff - is actually sweet, and touching.  Kudos.

I do have a few problems with the script as it currently is.

I LOVE the goofy Romeo and Juliet supermarket theme.  But it seems like you're trying to play it both seriously, and for camp.  Honestly, I think you need to throw it *completely* onto the camp side for it really to work.  

It's a good, fun concept - worth the rewrite.  There are just points where it seems too serious, and too real.  (And what's the deal with Ray actually getting stabbed, or am I reading that wrong?)  The sourdough is cute...though it really knocks someone out?

One or two lines did make me go huh?  Specifically:

*Demoula Thug?  (A tad bit over the top, at least as written)
* Jukes around the parking lot (?)

One thing about the writing.  Clean and good - but there just seemed to be too many intercuts in the action scenes to keep everything flowing as smoothly as it should.  Probably a *tad* bit too long, too.  It's a sweet, cute script.  Carry it out too far, and it loses it's impact!

My 2 (or 3) cents...

Cheers,

WV
Posted by: bert, April 2nd, 2011, 10:59am; Reply: 36
So for these I begin with a review of my earlier comments before moving onto the rewrite, and I find most grievances addressed, with little left to complain about.  You must have tweaked some of the language throughout, as this reads smoother than I recall, with no sticking points that led to any confusion.

While the boys are preparing for the battle, you use an "Intercut" technique.  I was not confused by this, but I think you would be better served by a montage or "series of shots".  Not that what you have done is wrong (I don't think, anyway), but the intercut is typically reserved for conversations (on the telephone, for example), where the visuals are not clearly defined, nor do they matter a great deal.

Here, there is no conversation -- but the visuals are clearly defined.  I think you have a series of shots -- as this does not cover an adequate span of time to qualify for a montage -- but all of those definitions for these techniques are sort of nebulous and squishy, IMO.

The battle scene is pleasantly absurd, as it ever was (with yet another intercut), and I see that you did (wisely) respond to the primary complaint for most readers, and that is the handling of the knife.  This is better, much better, but I still have to maintain that the sight of actual blood is still weird for the tone you have established -- like a record skipping a beat -- and just for a moment, things feel "off".  We are yanked out of comical fantasy and plunged into reality.
  
Personally, I still maintain that the narrative arc is a little more consistent if both boys were to trap Emily in the middle of their "joust", but you seem to have a specific vision for what you want amongst this trio of characters, and that is fine, too.  You do have to trust your own author's instincts.

And the end -- was there that much saccharine in the original?  This feels mostly new as well, and nearly placed me into a diabetic coma.  But there is an audience for that, and even if it is not my cup of tea, I can still acknowledge that it is effective, and the audience you are targeting will be just fine with it.

If you recall our chat about rewrites, I would say this one is there -- unless somebody gives you something you just gotta' add.  It is a nice, clever, and pleasantly inoffensive piece you have here.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 3rd, 2011, 9:44am; Reply: 37

Quoted from grademan
Hey ED, I see you completed a new draft. I still like it a lot but have some points to consider. Good intercutting. I realize my  suggestions are just that.

Gary

LOGLINE
“wrong side of the parking lot”

Hey Gary,

Thanks for taking a look at the new draft.
Wow! Great change right off the bat, I so stole that! Gracias!

Quoted from grademan

ONE
Hand painted signs fill the windows
jukes > floats
,necessary to change > to change
hatred between the stores > families

TWO
the rivalry was over – sounds like high school > the war was over
the last vo > I was so young...
the town gossiped for years - too many people knew > the town talked about that night for years

FOUR
It’s, letters > no comma

SIX
my baby sister > my sister

SEVEN
you Almacs pretty boy > awkward
you are > you’re
you Demoula thug > awkward
winner takes the parking lot > this may be unrealistic
Ray blanches > balks
You’re on. > not needed
Need something to scare customer besides turning off the lights?

EIGHT
sticker wounds > paper cuts?

TEN
Should be chanting “joust” before the leaders snap for their mops?

ELEVEN
Death to all Almacs > awk
My name, is Matt > no comma
her brother > Ray
Why him > Em, why him?

TWELVE
Ray should hold Emily!
Drop their aprons > why?

THIRTEEN
Ray should be there too!

These are great tweaks you're offering up.
Thanks so much for putting a detailed effort into the read.
It's always a big help when someone really gives that extra attention to detail.
It's interesting, now people want Ray to be there with the new ending. Hmm.
I had a lot of fun with this story and critiques like this are a huge help. Thanks!

If there's anything script you want eyes on, please drop me a note.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 3rd, 2011, 9:55am; Reply: 38

Quoted from Sandra Elstree.

Hello E.D., I'll first give my notes and general impressions and then suggestions after I assimilate. (Sounds like I'm goin' Borg or somethin' maybe I am  ;D)

I had trouble with the opening image. The breeze being described with the bell. For the breeze to matter, the bell had to be outside. I guess I was getting confused because I was asking:

What kind of food markets?  Like in Europe? Open stalls? Perhaps from my trips my mind is still stuck over there. Here though, weather is a factor and people don't do much in parking lots in the winter. The "bare trees" in your opening led me to thinking it was autumn; but come to think of it now, I'm not sure that mattered so much. Perhaps, you can nail the description a bit more than just strip mall. The strip malls here are really small things. You'd never see two big grocery stores at one strip mall because they only need one anchor.

Hello Sandra,

Thanks for honoring my request and giving this draft a look see.
Actually, the bell hangs on the outside of the door, I'll be clearer about that.
I can see that in different countries, the layout may read strange.
Funny part is, I didn't make that part up.
This layout actually existed in my hometown in Massachusetts.
I should be more specific for international audiences, thanks.

There are several references to the time of year, it's Valentine's week.
The sign, dialogue, I thought it was pretty prevalent.
However, if it didn't come across that way to you, I'll look into that.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree.

Matt’s description seemed unnecessary, sandy blond, strong chin. You could cast anyone. If he's good looking, then that's good enough. If that's what he needs to be.

I don’t think you’re supposed to use italics in a script.

The fat man wasn’t introd as a character.

Pricing guns aren’t used anymore because we have UPC coding, but I see that we're working from Old Emily's memory which brings me to:

I see your point about Matt, I jsut wanted him to be blonde.
It's a stark contrast to the dark haired ethnic background of the Demoulas.

Where did I use italics in the script? I can't find it, sorry.

I wasn't aware I needed to intro a character that doesn't talk, good to know, thanks.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree.

What's the meaning of this piece? I think it's loaded at the core with sentiment, even though it's got this funny kind of "war" going on in its middle.

My advice is to take Old Emily and show her. Don't just have her in voice over because

How romantic is a story where we can't see our main characters?

So

Show Matt, too.

And to make it real good

Show Ray. Alive and kicking. Which means, he never died of course.

So what happened?

Why not start this story with Old Emily, Old Matt, and Old Ray all together at the table drinking and playing cards or something. And someone walks in, brings "IT" up, and Matt perhaps tells the story of how his innocent family came into town trying to make a go of it, but Ray made it hard from the get-go. ...

The rest is history. Perhaps, so could show some quick "alternate flashes" of varying points of view. One, where everyone gets blown up or radiated or who knows what. And, as my little girl once had implanted into her head by her older brother and LOVED the idea and used it again and again:

AND THEY ALL DIED!!!  ;D

So, we might learn at the end of this that good old Ray and Emily and Matt are just ghosts now. Perhaps they dissolve into their translucence, get fed up with the cards. And...

Decide to go back to the parking lot and live happily ever after, fighting with their grocery biz.  ;D

Ray needs to have a girlfriend. Maybe Matt decides that his cousin is a good catch for him.

I don't see this as so much of a romance, but more of a humorous look at how life can work out. In order for it to be a romance, you need to lose the voice over and bring these people into more intimate situations. Even Matt and Ray, they need to have a reason to dislike each other-- a reason more than just opposition.

Hey, I just thought of a cool idea-- maybe Matt and Ray get together in the next life and pool their strengths, creating the first Super Store!  ;D

I hope this helps, E.D.

I appreciate being able to critique your work,

Sandra


Thanks so much for your insight and suggestions.
I like the theme of how funny it is the way things work out.
The wacky interpretation of memories over time could play into that.
As if to say, the absurdity is their nostalgic memories dramatizing the facts.
Could be a humorous take on the old Rashomon story thread. Heh.

If you'd like me to look over anything of yours, please drop me a note.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 3rd, 2011, 10:14am; Reply: 39

Quoted from rc1107
All right!  Round 2, here we go:

Did you make any changes to the description blocks in the beginning?  I seemed to have a better understanding of the setting, but I'm not sure if it was because you brushed it up or because this was my second time reading it.

Hey Mark,

Thanks for taking another look at this script so soon after the first read.
In answer to your first question, I did make a change in the first line.
"Bare trees and brownstones" is new, I thought it helped set the scene better.
I'm glad it worked for you. I'm proud of those four words.

Quoted from rc1107

Lol.  I just noticed.  Emily Demoula.  E.D.  (Was that on purpose or sub-consciously?)

Heh actually Demoulas was a regional market chain when I was growing up.
Emily is actually a reference to "Our Town", the lead girl being Emily.
I thought it would be appropriate to wedge and Wilder reference in there.
I like filling my scripts with Easter eggish stuff like that.

Quoted from rc1107

Was Ray 22 in the first draft?  I think he should be older than Matt, definately, but only by a year or two.  I think five years might be pushing it just a little.

"It's, letters."  -  Grademan mentioned that in his post.  It might read better as "It's... letters."

And I forgot to mention it in the first draft, but their greeting "I like your first name" made me lol.  That was funny.

No, I gave Ray an age this draft, I think you're right, should be changed, thanks.

Again you and Gary and right on with the letters thing.
Sometimes the little things just slide right on by you.

That line gets a lot of positive feedback, thanks.
I think it shows that Emily is a spunky girl, she's a smart cookie, I like her lots.

Quoted from rc1107

Yeah, I think you did good with the intercuts.  I never had a problem understanding them in the first draft.

I liked having Matt defend himself with the knife sharpener.

I'm still a little unclear as to what happens with Emily's interception.  It still reads like she gets skewered, having her eyes bulge like that and her hands bleeding.  I know you told me the blood was just from Emily's hand around the blade, but I would've been lost reading that if you haven't told me.

Thanks I worked out a new way to segregate the action description.
It's not exactly standard, but it isn't confusing, that's all that matters to me.
Hopefully, it's as clear to others as it was for you.

Yeah, the knife sharpener idea was cut from the first draft.
In the moment, I decided in draft one to go with the back stabbing.
I like set ups and call backs in scripts.
We see Ray's blade and sharpener in a holster, like an Old West revolver.
Call backs to me shows the author cares about rewarding the reader.

Yeah, I see the blade in her hands clearly in my mind.
I may need take another pass at that to get my vision across there.
There's something, probably small, that I'm overlooking.

Quoted from rc1107

Ahh, so you opted for the happy ending this time.  I think it does work out better this way, even though it gets away from where Romeo and Juliet ended up going.

But, with Old Matt and Old Emily switching up their lines at the ending, that kind of sent it over the sappy lovey-dovey edge.  That might've been a little too cheesy.  For some reason, it didn't seem cheesy to me in the last draft when only Old Emily said it.  But in this draft, for some reason, it definately crosses that line for me.

I was going to suggest fitting Ray in as an old man somehow, too, but Gary beat me to it.  In fact, I'd like to see if this bakery is in the strip mall, too.  And if so, which bookend?  The Demoula's end or the Almac's?

(And a small part of me was waiting to see if Old Emily's hands were scarred from where she gripped the knife as she was icing the cinnabun at the end.)

Yup, I poured on the sugar, why not? Don't get to do it often, so I went for it.
It's funny now that people are feeling some love for Ray, I like that.
Well, there is the sound of the ocean as the door opens, that's the hint.
Oh, that's an excellent point about her scarred hands. A+!

Quoted from rc1107

Yeah, I do like this version better.  It seemed to read crisper and I had better images in my head, not that it wasn't crisp in the first draft.  Again, I don't know if it's small changes you made that enhanced the read a little, or if it's I'm reading it a second time and discovering more stuff my brain just grazed through last time.

And I do think this alternate ending fits better with the scope of the romantic piece this was supposed to be.  The Valentine theme.



I thought I figured out what that was when I read this at work earlier this afternoon, but for the life of me, I can't remember.  I've even gone back and read this again tonight to see where I noticed it earlier, and I just can't find it now.  It's ticking me off.

- Mark

There are lots of small changes throughout.
When I post a new draft, I thoroughly tinker with it.
I want to to make it worth someone's while to revisit my script for more punishment.
I'm not comfortable posting a "new draft" if I've only tweaked a scene.
If a reader is giving me a second look on something, I need to make it count.
I'm glad all the little nips and tucks worked for you.
There's about ten new lines of dialogue sprinkled throughout the new draft.
But I hope they blend in well enough, they're hard to single out.

Ahh well the knife vs. sharpening rod brief duel is a R&J reference.
Mercutio engages in a sword fight in the fair streets of Verona.
I thought have a bit of a sword like dual would be fun for the story.

Thanks lots for all your neat insights into this story.
I've had a lot of fun working on this script.
I'll get to that thing of yours later today.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Sandra Elstree., April 3rd, 2011, 2:28pm; Reply: 40

Quoted from Electric Dreamer


Where did I use italics in the script? I can't find it, sorry.


I meant to say "quotes", not italics.  :) It was "valentine" on page 4. I'm not sure if it matters, but I had a question there whether it would just be better to underline it. I don't know. I know some people hate underlining.


Quoted from Electric Dreamer


Thanks so much for your insight and suggestions.

I like the theme of how funny it is the way things work out.
The wacky interpretation of memories over time could play into that.
As if to say, the absurdity is their nostalgic memories dramatizing the facts.
Could be a humorous take on the old Rashomon story thread. Heh.


Regards,
E.D.


I think what I bolded above is really true in this piece and really is the essence of it all.

And it's true actually, if we look at our own lives, how something very serious, that we thought was serious, could turn out to be so funny, that we wind up talking about it in embellishments, for fun. This totally legitimizes any "over the top" claims because it's supposed to be because that's what the characters are doing, for fun, in their recollections. The audience gets to come along for the ride, and perhaps some of their own "moments" that they can relate to are stirred up in the process, which makes it truly enjoyable when that happens.

Sandra

Posted by: leitskev, April 4th, 2011, 3:33pm; Reply: 41
I don't have time to read all the posts. But I am a little confused.

Before I get to that, I think your writing stands out among the crowd. Dialogue, descriptions, action flow...very good, a cut above.

The story started out with a charming aspect to it. Reminded me of the Pushcart Wars. I could see it as a musical. Choreographed market warriors.

Somehow things went from the warriors being armed with sticker guns, which implies a certain silliness and lighthearted nature, to Ray attacking with a butcher knife. That seemed strange. And then someone dies? Who is bleeding? Matt is in the last scene, so I guess Ray died?

So I thought the end was a little confusing and perhaps out of place in the story. But your writing really is distinctively good, and if you are productive, IMO it won't be long before you put out something really special, something someone films, hopefully buys for a lot!
Posted by: mcornetto (Guest), April 4th, 2011, 5:08pm; Reply: 42
I thought this was much tighter than the first version.  I liked that you named the narrator.   Since you didn't introduce her before then it would be good if you said something, anything about the quality of her voice.  Even if it was something like "a shaky voice speaks" or "a voice full of wisdom speaks".  

Also on the first page "Letters spell"  was awkward - maybe rephrase that to "A sign states" or something like that.  I wouldn't complain about that if it wasn't the first page.  

Then things flow well until they are interrupted in the office.  I think Matt should go down on his knee when he says "Emily, would you" because its a bit more dramatic and implies romance.

Then you cleaned up the fight nicely, it flows much better than it did before.  However, the ending with the knife seems out of place.  It would be nice if you could replace the knife and the blood with food.

Good job on the rewrite.  It's turning into a tight little script.  
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 7th, 2011, 10:32am; Reply: 43

Quoted from khamanna
Hi E.D.

Read it!
It started with the VO and it was just a bit long for me. All you're saying that Demoulas and Almacs stores were across from each other. Demoulas came first and Almacs opened there second.
I liked the fact that it's visual but I think you could cut some of it. To get to Emily and Matt faster.

Hey Khamanna,

Much appreciation for the prompt read!
The voice over in the first draft was much longer and had an identity crisis.
Perhaps there's another line or dialogue chain I can excise.
Rewrites sometimes feel like I'm peeling an onion.
And shed bitters tears as I kill all my onion children. ;)
You're right in that it does go a bit long with all the visual elements.
Sometimes it's difficult for me to wrangle my visuals into an economic description.

Quoted from khamanna

Their love is in the center of your story and I don't think you let us stay on them long enough. I don't know anything about them, their dreams what they are like, what sparked their love... You have a little in there but I'd want more.

The best part of dialog was for me "Why him" "Why not him" and "I like your first name" "I like your first name too" - I think you could have more of that.

Overall it's a good story for me and I liked it, I just think that it could be even better than that. More of Emily and Matt please!
--just an opinion of course.

-hey, our avatars are the same?

Well, when a reader says they want more of your leads, it's never a bad thing!
Being sixteen in simpler times, they dream of being anonymous.
No filial obligations so they can become the individuals they are hidden inside.
Perhaps there's a better way I can get that across in the script.
I guess my problem is I'm enamored with the absurd battle a bit much.
And that may cause the overshadowing of Emily and Matt you're alluding to.

Thanks so much for your time, it's always appreciated.
Got another home schooling story in the works? Gotta finish the trilogy! ;)

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 7th, 2011, 10:43am; Reply: 44

Quoted from jwent6688
Brett,

Gave this another look. Some of the writing is still comes off funny...

"Emily freight trains a half dozen shopping carts together and
aims the docked carts at the locked front door." Don't write carts twice. We know the door is locked....

"Emily docks several shopping carts together. She aims the train at the front door." - Just reads easier to me.

Hey James,

Thanks lots for giving this a second look, that effort is always encouraging.
You know, it's funny the simple things you miss sometimes.
I was focused on narrative sharpening and tonal shifts primarily for this draft.
Your right on this, should I revisit the script, I've give it a nip and tuck, thanks.

Quoted from jwent6688

I thought Emily grabbed Rays knife with her bare hand. Did she get stabbed? Had to read it twice to picture what was going on in the picture.

I suppose a beat in there about Emily gasping as the blade cuts her hands would help.
You see things clearly in your mind, but it always doesn't translate onto the page.
Someone else mentioned she should have hand scars in the end, good call back.

Quoted from jwent6688

I like the new ending better. It suits this story. I just found it a tedious read in alot of places. I think its clear in your mind when you write it, but I had to go back and re-read a couple things. To me, less is always more in screenwriting. Many will not agree.

Overall, good work. some good lines and the parking lot rumble is still funny. Liked the smashing of the demoura sign too. Good visual there.

James

I hope the tedium is more about conceptualization than sheer writer incompetence.
I realize it's a a lot to get through in a thirteen pages.
Set pieces. Forbidden Love. Epic Battles. Redemption.
I agree there's more that could be refined, but I think we have style differences too.
I recall a spirited debate on the Lie Detector thread.
Debating with articulate folks that have different points of view is the best way to learn!

Cheers and have a round or three for me!

Regards,
E.D.


Posted by: greg, April 9th, 2011, 7:09pm; Reply: 45
Hi Brett,

Interesting piece.  I was entertained but at the same time struggling to figure out what this story was trying to be.  It starts as a Romeo and Juliet-esque romance with lovers from enemy families.  That was legit.  I thought I was in for a real drama here.  But when the rumble came and guys were loading up their sourdough missiles and price guns...I laughed but it was so far out of left field I'm not sure it necessarily works here.  And then it goes back to seriousness when Ray tries to stab Matt.  I know it's listed as a fantasy but the genre jumping I felt was so extreme that it didn't feel like it worked and threw the flow off.  

But as I said - it was entertaining.  The drama was good and the battle was hysterical -- but together I had an issue with.  The ending was also fine.  There's a lot of things to like about this story but I think the romance/fantasy comedy/drama meshing was a bit extreme IMO.  

Good job nevertheless.

Greg
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 12th, 2011, 10:52am; Reply: 46

Quoted from Ryan1
Brett,
Big improvement with this version.  The ending finally fits the tone of the rest of the story.  I wish you could find a way to slash that VO at the beginning to maybe half a page and then jump right into the story.  It almost felt like a little too much stage setting there.  I had to keep reminding myself that this was taking place decades ago, like the 50's I'm assuming.  Maybe a few more period details to really hammer the era home for us.

Hey Ryan,

Thanks so much for the second read.
It's always extra nifty when someone will read your junk twice.
You were the first two trust me with a script not posted on the site.
I will always remember that and buy you a drink some day for it.

That darn VO, it was almost two pages in the first draft.
I got it down to a page and a quarter this time.
Perhaps I could have slivered off some more.
But I was caught up in addressing the vagueness of the narration there.
I did slide in more time period references, but one or two right off the bat can't hurt.

Quoted from Ryan1

I don't know, I still have mixed feelings about the rumble.  The story starts with this tale of forbidden young love, told with a straight face.  Then comes the bread torpedoes and sticker guns, which takes us almost into an alternate universe where someone can get knocked out by a loaf of bread.    Don't get me wrong, the torpedoes are funny and the image of these guys turtling under shopping carts to weather the dough assault is also funny.  Although, I would  liked to have seen the unconscious fat kid wake up and start gnawing on the loaf that coldcocked him.    

I see where you're coming from and Sandra made an interesting suggestion.
That the absurdity comes from exaggerated recollections of the event.
As in, the characters are old now and recalling their wild youth.
I like the idea, but unsure how it could fit into the narrative structure.
Perhaps modify the VO to bring in this idea. Would be a fun challenge.
LoL, fat kids eats the bread, epic. Consider it stolen!

Quoted from Ryan1

I guess my point is, with the silliness of the rumble, it's harder to accept the deadly seriousness of the knife fight that follows.  

That being said, I did like the ending.  Making us believe that Emily just got ventilated, then showing how she stopped it just n time.  Makes everyone realize how out of hand everything has gotten.

So, good job on the rewrite.  It could still be tightened in places, but it's a real improvement.

Ryan


I'm glad the rewrite made a significant difference for you.
You have a good eye for detail and don't mince words.
I know it's a wild tonal stretch with this one, but I'm grateful you took the ride again.
It was fun bringing a childhood daydream to life on these pages.
And your notes helped me improve my work here, thanks pal!

Keep writing and rewriting!
I want to read about some mountains soon!

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 12th, 2011, 11:06am; Reply: 47

Quoted from wonkavite
Hi ED -

I think this COULD work.  The last page - with the payoff - is actually sweet, and touching.  Kudos.

I do have a few problems with the script as it currently is.

I LOVE the goofy Romeo and Juliet supermarket theme.  But it seems like you're trying to play it both seriously, and for camp.  Honestly, I think you need to throw it *completely* onto the camp side for it really to work.  

It's a good, fun concept - worth the rewrite.  There are just points where it seems too serious, and too real.  (And what's the deal with Ray actually getting stabbed, or am I reading that wrong?)  The sourdough is cute...though it really knocks someone out?

Hey Janet,

Thanks for the read, always good to get notes from the fairer sex.
Especially since I'm a hairy bachelor beast writing a romance with girl protag!
If I were to revisit the material, I have considered separating out the tones.
I guess I'm a chemist on some level, I love mixing it up and seeing what happens.

Ray didn't get stabbed, my action description there needs a touch up.
Sometimes I don't get it all out of my head and on the page like I should.
It's a visually busy script, something's bound to slip past my radar.
It's a sticking point in the script I'll revisit, thanks.

Quoted from wonkavite

One or two lines did make me go huh?  Specifically:

*Demoula Thug?  (A tad bit over the top, at least as written)
* Jukes around the parking lot (?)

I guess Matt, being a teenager in love, was being a bit over dramatic there.
But if it pulls you out of the scene, I should take another look at it, thanks.

Juke is a verb meaning to make a move to deceive an object.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/juke
I get a little too fancypants for my own good sometimes.
I underestimate how that can be distracting to the reader.

Quoted from wonkavite

One thing about the writing.  Clean and good - but there just seemed to be too many intercuts in the action scenes to keep everything flowing as smoothly as it should.  Probably a *tad* bit too long, too.  It's a sweet, cute script.  Carry it out too far, and it loses it's impact!

My 2 (or 3) cents...

Cheers,

WV


Thank you for your insight, Janet.
A visually dense story with action scenes is a tightrope act.
My intercuts are a work in progress and I hope to hone them to enhance the story.
I appreciate you honoring my request for some girl power input.

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 14th, 2011, 10:49am; Reply: 48

Quoted from bert
So for these I begin with a review of my earlier comments before moving onto the rewrite, and I find most grievances addressed, with little left to complain about.  You must have tweaked some of the language throughout, as this reads smoother than I recall, with no sticking points that led to any confusion.

Bert,

Thanks so much for revisiting this script, it's doubly appreciated.
I did review everyone's posts as I sat down for the second draft.
It's the least I can do to honor the effort SS members offered me.
And yes, I did go through the entire script and rework the descriptions.
I "segregated" the stacking into two groups: Intercuts & pairing the rest up.
I'm glad it made for a much smoother read for you.

Quoted from bert

While the boys are preparing for the battle, you use an "Intercut" technique.  I was not confused by this, but I think you would be better served by a montage or "series of shots".  Not that what you have done is wrong (I don't think, anyway), but the intercut is typically reserved for conversations (on the telephone, for example), where the visuals are not clearly defined, nor do they matter a great deal.

Here, there is no conversation -- but the visuals are clearly defined.  I think you have a series of shots -- as this does not cover an adequate span of time to qualify for a montage -- but all of those definitions for these techniques are sort of nebulous and squishy, IMO.

Yeah, I did something that just felt right for me and didn't seem illogical.
I tried my best to find a way to get across the visuals in my head.
My format was awful when I arrived on SS seven months ago.
Now, I'm starting to find my own way, thanks to many fine examples on the site.
At least I feel comfortable enough to experiment now.

Quoted from bert

The battle scene is pleasantly absurd, as it ever was (with yet another intercut), and I see that you did (wisely) respond to the primary complaint for most readers, and that is the handling of the knife.  This is better, much better, but I still have to maintain that the sight of actual blood is still weird for the tone you have established -- like a record skipping a beat -- and just for a moment, things feel "off".  We are yanked out of comical fantasy and plunged into reality.
  
Personally, I still maintain that the narrative arc is a little more consistent if both boys were to trap Emily in the middle of their "joust", but you seem to have a specific vision for what you want amongst this trio of characters, and that is fine, too.  You do have to trust your own author's instincts.

I've always felt strongly about the blood beat.
I thought it was important to show that things went too far, as teens often do.
I did like your suggestion and I can see it going that way.
Guess I got married to the butcher and butcher knife thang.
I could see your idea in my mind's eye, just didn't make it to the page...this time. ;)

Quoted from bert

And the end -- was there that much saccharine in the original?  This feels mostly new as well, and nearly placed me into a diabetic coma.  But there is an audience for that, and even if it is not my cup of tea, I can still acknowledge that it is effective, and the audience you are targeting will be just fine with it.

If you recall our chat about rewrites, I would say this one is there -- unless somebody gives you something you just gotta' add.  It is a nice, clever, and pleasantly inoffensive piece you have here.

Yup, I upped the high fructose corn syrup factor on the finale. Guilty.
Seemed the way to go at the time, so I swung for the cheap seats.
I don't honestly know if I would like this story if someone else wrote it.
But I do know I'm proud I went outside my wheelhouse and put this together.
Mom really liked her Valentine script, so that made me happy too.

No more rewrites for me, February was all about rewrites.
April is new pages month for me!

Thanks again for your valued time.
Call on me to return the favor any time.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: mcornetto (Guest), April 14th, 2011, 4:02pm; Reply: 49
I don't know if anyone mentioned this but I feel like and idiot.  I JUST got why you named this West Side Markets.  Very good.
Posted by: LC, April 16th, 2011, 6:55am; Reply: 50
Hey Brett,
bit late in getting back to the party on this one, but as you have a new draft up and I enjoyed the first one thoroughly I just had to take another gander.

And... I see four pages of very thorough reviews from fellow SS'ers. Whew! Kinda hard to get through I imagine. And, from what I've read you've taken a lot of that advice onboard and applied it in the re-write.

Which brings me to this.  Brett, you're fond of signing off and encouraging with 'keep writing and rewriting' but the problem we all have as writers is that at some point we do actually have to step back, and stop. I do note your comment to Bert btw about Feb.

Which brings me to my confession: I actually feel a little sheepish saying this but, forive me, I actually prefer the original!

Bear in mind I gave it high praise way back then despite the nitpickety things I mentioned. And, I'm aware you did 'fixes' including the one that I mentioned at the beginning of the script. Noted that, and very pleased with the amended. But I suppose it comes down to 'you can't please all of the people all of the time'.

I note some people still have trouble with some of the far-fetched (absurdist) aspects of this script, and with the character of Ray and the 'violence' (which appears out of nowhere... for some), and, the Intercuts v montage/series of shots etc. (and I could nitpick some more too) - still not overly fond of the 'grown up characters' at the conclusion, but then I didn't like that about the movie The Notebook either and I still loved the soppy film overall so... but when it comes down to it this is Romantic Fantasy, so it all works for me.

Anyway, main thing I'm getting at is, whether it be this draft or the first, I still LOVE this script. It's romance and fantasy and drama all rolled in one and I really hope someone with filmmaking SKILL, (capable of doing it justice) picks it up.

All the best of luck with it ED. Look forward to reading your new stuff.

:) LC.


Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 16th, 2011, 10:07am; Reply: 51

Quoted from mcornetto
I thought this was much tighter than the first version.  I liked that you named the narrator.   Since you didn't introduce her before then it would be good if you said something, anything about the quality of her voice.  Even if it was something like "a shaky voice speaks" or "a voice full of wisdom speaks".  

Hey Michael,

Thanks for giving this a second read, always encouraging for me to see.
That's a good idea about Old Emily, I will so steal that, thanks!

Quoted from mcornetto

Also on the first page "Letters spell"  was awkward - maybe rephrase that to "A sign states" or something like that.  I wouldn't complain about that if it wasn't the first page.  

Yeah, I see your point there, that should be changed.

Quoted from mcornetto

Then things flow well until they are interrupted in the office.  I think Matt should go down on his knee when he says "Emily, would you" because its a bit more dramatic and implies romance.

The interrupted valentine speech was new this draft.
And yes, you're idea is a much better foreshadowing of the ending. Good one!

Quoted from mcornetto

Then you cleaned up the fight nicely, it flows much better than it did before.  However, the ending with the knife seems out of place.  It would be nice if you could replace the knife and the blood with food.

Good job on the rewrite.  It's turning into a tight little script.  

Replace the knife with food? Stab here with a banana? ;)
I guess I'm stuck on the blood due to Shakespearean tragedy and all.
I like that it goes too far and they have to reel it back it.
Once I made Ray a butcher, the knife always seemed imminent to me.
One day I may come around on this, but I think this story's in a good place currently.

I had buckets of fun going outside my proverbial wheelhouse with this script.
A rewarding experience to tackle a new genre and bring a childhood memory to life.
The newness of this self imposed OWC really invigorated me.

Quoted from mcornetto

I don't know if anyone mentioned this but I feel like and idiot.  I JUST got why you named this West Side Markets.  Very good.

Here I was worried I was being too un-subtle with the title. ;)
I cringed at the title a bit, but thought I could get away with it.
People have mentioned the West Side Story comparisons.
I assumed those that did "got the title".
Hope it wasn't too much of a groaner for you when you caught on.

Thanks again, now you'll excuse me, need an eye exam after staring at your icon! :P

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 18th, 2011, 9:46am; Reply: 52

Quoted from leitskev
I don't have time to read all the posts. But I am a little confused.

Before I get to that, I think your writing stands out among the crowd. Dialogue, descriptions, action flow...very good, a cut above.

The story started out with a charming aspect to it. Reminded me of the Pushcart Wars. I could see it as a musical. Choreographed market warriors.

Hey Kev,

Thanks for the read, I've never heard of Pushcart Wars.
Sounds like Hardware Wars, and that's certainly a classic riff.
There's definitely a few genres at work in this short.
I never seem to settle on one and I impulsively swing for the bleachers.
Because of my nature, I think I risk alienating some folks.

Quoted from leitskev

Somehow things went from the warriors being armed with sticker guns, which implies a certain silliness and lighthearted nature, to Ray attacking with a butcher knife. That seemed strange. And then someone dies? Who is bleeding? Matt is in the last scene, so I guess Ray died?

So I thought the end was a little confusing and perhaps out of place in the story. But your writing really is distinctively good, and if you are productive, IMO it won't be long before you put out something really special, something someone films, hopefully buys for a lot!

Ray was a butcher and I established in his intro that he has a knife in a holster.
I guess I didn't make that clear enough, I'll have to review that, thanks.
In the end, Ray does take it too far and his sister Emily steps in at the last moment.
She stops the blade with her hands, hence the blood.
Mark had a great suggestion about showing her hands scarred in the end.
I think if I did that, there may be less confusion here, thanks for bringing it up.
It's also been suggesting I should have Old Ray there too, might be a nice touch.

SS has been an immense resource for me to improve my craft.
I only hope that the works written entertain those that helped me get better.
I'm sorry for the confusion but glad you overall enjoyed the read.

Regards,
E.D.


Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 21st, 2011, 9:42am; Reply: 53

Quoted from greg
Hi Brett,

Interesting piece.  I was entertained but at the same time struggling to figure out what this story was trying to be.  It starts as a Romeo and Juliet-esque romance with lovers from enemy families.  That was legit.  I thought I was in for a real drama here.

Greg,

Thanks for the read.
This started out as a self imposed Valentine week OWC.
It's based upon a childhood fantasy about a real supermarket "war".
The R&J romance was crafted around the battle I saw in my mind's eye as a boy.
If I'm going to challenge myself, I should get out of my proverbial wheelhouse.
So, I tried on the romance fantasy hat to see how it would fit.
I tried early on to inject humor and whimsy with how the couple met.
I was hoping that would be an effective lead in to the more absurd parts.

Quoted from greg

But when the rumble came and guys were loading up their sourdough missiles and price guns...I laughed but it was so far out of left field I'm not sure it necessarily works here.  And then it goes back to seriousness when Ray tries to stab Matt.  I know it's listed as a fantasy but the genre jumping I felt was so extreme that it didn't feel like it worked and threw the flow off.  

But as I said - it was entertaining.  The drama was good and the battle was hysterical -- but together I had an issue with.  The ending was also fine.  There's a lot of things to like about this story but I think the romance/fantasy comedy/drama meshing was a bit extreme IMO.  

Good job nevertheless.

Greg

Yeah, I packed it in there for a 13 pager.
I've gotten this note from a few folks.
I honestly don't know what to do with it.
It genre jumps, true, but it's entertaining.
I decided to set my imagination loose on this one to see where it would go.
Unless I come up with something to smooth things, I guess this one stands as is.
Though Sandra brought up a good point about memories distorting facts over time.
Thanks for your time, best of luck with Scorsese Club!

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, April 21st, 2011, 9:56am; Reply: 54

Quoted from LC
Hey Brett,
bit late in getting back to the party on this one, but as you have a new draft up and I enjoyed the first one thoroughly I just had to take another gander.

And... I see four pages of very thorough reviews from fellow SS'ers. Whew! Kinda hard to get through I imagine. And, from what I've read you've taken a lot of that advice onboard and applied it in the re-write.

Which brings me to this.  Brett, you're fond of signing off and encouraging with 'keep writing and rewriting' but the problem we all have as writers is that at some point we do actually have to step back, and stop. I do note your comment to Bert btw about Feb.

Which brings me to my confession: I actually feel a little sheepish saying this but, forive me, I actually prefer the original!

Hey LC!

Thanks for taking another look at this.
I had a creeping suspicion you might prefer the first draft of the script.
You were so generous with your praise for my first stab at this story.

Quoted from LC

Bear in mind I gave it high praise way back then despite the nitpickety things I mentioned. And, I'm aware you did 'fixes' including the one that I mentioned at the beginning of the script. Noted that, and very pleased with the amended. But I suppose it comes down to 'you can't please all of the people all of the time'.

I tried to incorporate the notes and streamline the narrative.
I'd be curious to know any specific changes that didn't ring true to you that I made.

Quoted from LC

I note some people still have trouble with some of the far-fetched (absurdist) aspects of this script, and with the character of Ray and the 'violence' (which appears out of nowhere... for some), and, the Intercuts v montage/series of shots etc. (and I could nitpick some more too) - still not overly fond of the 'grown up characters' at the conclusion, but then I didn't like that about the movie The Notebook either and I still loved the soppy film overall so... but when it comes down to it this is Romantic Fantasy, so it all works for me.

Anyway, main thing I'm getting at is, whether it be this draft or the first, I still LOVE this script. It's romance and fantasy and drama all rolled in one and I really hope someone with filmmaking SKILL, (capable of doing it justice) picks it up.

All the best of luck with it ED. Look forward to reading your new stuff.

:) LC.

Honestly, I was terrified about having the confidence to genre jump with this one.
It was scary letting it rip and seeing where the vibe took me and the characters.
I tried to foreshadow Ray's temper with the knife in the wall and the lights out.
Maybe a line there might bolster that sentiment for some folks.
I swung for the cheap seats with everything else, so I did with the ending too.
I wanted to create a valentine fairy tale and that was my happily ever after ending.
Yeah, I'd love to see this one brought to life.
There's a lot of visual cues on the page a director can expand upon.
Thanks again for your kind words, and best of luck with your endeavors!

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: reuel51, April 23rd, 2011, 1:49pm; Reply: 55
Brett

I haven't read what others have said about the rewrite, maybe I'm just repeating them...

Anyway, I loved this! You nailed the action and the characters. The transition from the absurd rumble with bread and mops into the violent knife fight felt perfect. Ray has been losing his cool the whole time, but the final straw was losing the mop joust. It was very believable that he pulls the knife and aims for a cheap shot. I was glad that Matt held his own and put up a fight. I was also glad to see Emily fall victim to the duel, and in keeping with the tone of this script, she didn't die. Perhaps in the closing scene, her wrinkled hands could turn over to invite Matt's to hold, revealing the scar. Just a thought.

This may sound corny, but I was actually getting the chills during this. Very visual, and it needs to be made. It might get a little costly for a short, but if someone can pull it off, this will be well received, IMHO.

Fantastic job!

Brian
Posted by: Craiger6, April 25th, 2011, 1:23pm; Reply: 56
Hey E.D.,

My apologies for not getting to this sooner, but better late than never, right?

Anyway, I enjoyed your first draft as it stood, but after reading your updated version, I think I prefer this one.  I haven�t read all of the comments on this draft, but I did read a few of them, and they touch on some of the things that popped into my mind as I read.

First off, I liked the addition of Old Emily and the V.O.  That said, like some others have mentioned, I think you could probably cut it down a bit.  I wouldn�t go too crazy trying to cut it, as I think that you need some of it for background, but maybe you can cut the line about the cinnamon buns.  Again, I don�t think it will make that much of a difference, but it�s a place to start.

Like most people, when I first read this, I was kind of up in the air with the progression from the kind of silly fight they were having with price guns and bread rolls, to the knife fight.  I felt that it was a little jarring, but I also felt like it worked.  For the most part, I see you kept that this time around as well, and after reading this twice, I think I�m okay with it now.  Maybe I�m more familiar with the story having read the first draft that it wasn�t as much of a shock.  Either way, it kind of is what it is, right?

I do think you made the right choice here in how you ended it and I really prefer this ending to the first one.   I think that the way you ended this one, kind of makes the whole escalation to the knife fight easier to handle for the audience since we know that everything worked out all right.  I thought it was really sweet.  The only thing I think I might change is having both Mat and Emily both saying ��can last a lifetime� and �Happy Valentine�s Day�.  As far as the first line, I think I would just give it to Matt and be done with it.  As far as the HVD � I know this was a piece you wrote for valentine�s day, but I think I would drop that as well.  I think it works on its own, so no need to reference VD.

Anyway, as I said, I enjoyed this and liked the changes you made here.  Keep it up, and best of luck.

Craig

P.S.  In one of the other comments, someone mentioned that it might be cool to see and Old Ray.  I kind of like that idea as well, and think it mmight be cool to see how he has dealt with Emily and Matt's relationship over the years (i.e. accepting, bitter, etc).
Posted by: Grandma Bear, April 28th, 2011, 12:45pm; Reply: 57
Brett, you wanted some feedback from some of SS female members on this one. I guess you don't know me very well, lol! I'm probably the least romantic person on these boards and I hate rom-coms. Having said that, I'd like to think of myself as someone who can read a script regardless of genre and author and be completely unbiased in my comments. So, here goes…

First off, in regards to the single space action lines. They are correctly written, but incorrectly labeled and they are definitely not a montage. A montage is a series of short scenes. What you have here is a SERIES OF SHOTS and in regards to the 1 minute/page thing that is also how those shots will play out. That is why they are spaced like that. If they were lumped together in chunkier action paragraphs you would get a longer film than the page suggests.  At least IMHO!!

The story itself was okay. I hate to say this, but it's old. I did like the two grocery store idea, but since the story is a classic I knew exactly how it would end which brought it down some as far as interest goes. At least to me. I'm not sure because it's so not me, but I loved Titanic. I think it was because of the rich characters in it. I didn't feel much depth of characterization here though. Maybe that can be worked up some.

About the fight. I thought you handled the fight well and it had some interesting and creative props, but I think I would have preferred to see something a little more real. A real fight. Wether it would be a fist fight, arm wrestling or whatever. I know it said rom-com/fantasy, but it felt a little silly to me. Probably most other women would find it cute though.  Didn't quite get what the cooking oil was supposed to do. It seemed they dumped it out on the ground, but it had no effect on anything.

I also hate when women are told to go home and let the guys handle this or that!!! So I hated that Emily was locked up before the fight and also that Ray referred to her as his baby sister. If I was Emily I would knocked him out for that.  :)

The ending was sweet. No bun intended.

In short, a well told familiar story that you can be proud of and I'm sure most women would like.

Pia  :)
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, May 2nd, 2011, 10:17am; Reply: 58

Quoted from reuel51
Brett

I haven't read what others have said about the rewrite, maybe I'm just repeating them...

Anyway, I loved this! You nailed the action and the characters. The transition from the absurd rumble with bread and mops into the violent knife fight felt perfect. Ray has been losing his cool the whole time, but the final straw was losing the mop joust. It was very believable that he pulls the knife and aims for a cheap shot. I was glad that Matt held his own and put up a fight. I was also glad to see Emily fall victim to the duel, and in keeping with the tone of this script, she didn't die. Perhaps in the closing scene, her wrinkled hands could turn over to invite Matt's to hold, revealing the scar. Just a thought.

This may sound corny, but I was actually getting the chills during this. Very visual, and it needs to be made. It might get a little costly for a short, but if someone can pull it off, this will be well received, IMHO.

Fantastic job!

Brian


Hey Brian,

Thanks for the second read, it was doubly nice of you to return to this script.
I appreciate you detailing Ray's arc, I did try hard to make it plausible.
Hot blooded young men do rash things in the heat of the moment.
It's true this would be an expensive short to produce, no doubt.
I wrote this more as a test for myself than to be produced.
I gave myself a week to put together a story for Valentine's Day.
The market layout is from the neighborhood I grew up in.
As a boy, I envisioned these late night "turf wars" between the stores. Weird kid.
I'd never tried my hand at romance before, so I thought I'd test myself.
I'm very fond of this story and I'm glad it worked for you.
Thanks again for your words of encouragement.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, May 5th, 2011, 11:26am; Reply: 59

Quoted from Craiger6
Hey E.D.,

My apologies for not getting to this sooner, but better late than never, right?

Anyway, I enjoyed your first draft as it stood, but after reading your updated version, I think I prefer this one.  I haven�t read all of the comments on this draft, but I did read a few of them, and they touch on some of the things that popped into my mind as I read.

Hey Craig,

Thanks for the second read, I'm always grateful for any kind of revisit by a reader.
I try to pay attention to notes and address them on rewrites.
Here, I can rewrite without consequence.
Better to learn here than when a producer is breathing down my neck.
As a reader, I feel good when an author has addressed my notes in a rewrite.
Please don't feel the need to apologize ever to giving me a read, thanks!

Quoted from Craiger6

First off, I liked the addition of Old Emily and the V.O.  That said, like some others have mentioned, I think you could probably cut it down a bit.  I wouldn�t go too crazy trying to cut it, as I think that you need some of it for background, but maybe you can cut the line about the cinnamon buns.  Again, I don�t think it will make that much of a difference, but it�s a place to start.

That pesky V.O., it's my first attempt ever with that device.
It's gotten better, but you're right, I need to get in there and make it shine.
It's also been suggested to slide a few more time period references in there.
Your cinnamon bun comment is insightful, thanks.

Quoted from Craiger6

Like most people, when I first read this, I was kind of up in the air with the progression from the kind of silly fight they were having with price guns and bread rolls, to the knife fight.  I felt that it was a little jarring, but I also felt like it worked.  For the most part, I see you kept that this time around as well, and after reading this twice, I think I�m okay with it now.  Maybe I�m more familiar with the story having read the first draft that it wasn�t as much of a shock.  Either way, it kind of is what it is, right?

I made hundreds of tweaks leading up to the battle to smooth out the story.
And I think that overall smoothing, helped facilitate the fantasy.
Fantastical things go doen best when treated seriously by those involved.
I tried hard to keep it real for the characters, I'm glad it read better for you.

Quoted from Craiger6

I do think you made the right choice here in how you ended it and I really prefer this ending to the first one.   I think that the way you ended this one, kind of makes the whole escalation to the knife fight easier to handle for the audience since we know that everything worked out all right.  I thought it was really sweet.  The only thing I think I might change is having both Mat and Emily both saying ��can last a lifetime� and �Happy Valentine�s Day�.  As far as the first line, I think I would just give it to Matt and be done with it.  As far as the HVD � I know this was a piece you wrote for valentine�s day, but I think I would drop that as well.  I think it works on its own, so no need to reference VD.

Anyway, as I said, I enjoyed this and liked the changes you made here.  Keep it up, and best of luck.

Craig

Yeah, I tried to enhance the tonal shift to pay off the rest of the story.
They are young hot blooded kids and things can get out of hand.
Especially, when there's no adult supervision, it keeps the pressure on.
And I'm all about the suspension of disbelief and keeping the magic burning bright.
I was proud with the sharpening rod call back becoming a defensive weapon.
It gives this a swash buckling element seen in many Shakespeare plays.
Any excuse I can generate to have a sword fight, I'm so there.
If I had cause to revisit this piece, I would probably change the epilogue.
Thanks for the suggestions there, they make sense to me.

Quoted from Craiger6

P.S.  In one of the other comments, someone mentioned that it might be cool to see and Old Ray.  I kind of like that idea as well, and think it mmight be cool to see how he has dealt with Emily and Matt's relationship over the years (i.e. accepting, bitter, etc).

Yeah, that was Sandra, I believe.
I poked some of the elder stateswomen of the site for some input.
I like it too and if I were to expand this story, that's a strong tack to take.
I thought it was hilarious that women didn't read the first draft.
Thanks for your time and comments, if you need eyes on anything, let me know.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: James McClung, May 9th, 2011, 5:01pm; Reply: 60
Hey Brett,

Checked this out as promised. I must say, having now read everything you've posted here (I think), your writing does have that distinct voice that all committed writers seek within themselves. I've yet to feel, with your work, like I'm reading something I've read 100+ times before. Not to give you a big head, there's many writers here I enjoy for a certain something only they seem to offer, but I do think you deserve a kudos in that regard.

Naturally, this lies in the details. Emily and Matt meeting for the first time. The way they "shake hands..." Very particular. Odd but sweet. It set the tone for the rest of the script. Then, of course, there's the lot battle. The character that kneels down to check the bread. "Sourdough." Again, it speaks of very particular sensibilities. I enjoyed these little details.

Speaking of the lot battle, I find your comments on Robbing the Grave stranger now as this script is much more of a tonal romp than mine is. That said, I didn't take issue with it. I thought the gearing up for battle was strange at first but I made a conscious decision to see it out and I feel it worked.

The only jump that didn't sit well with me was Emily killing her brother. First off, I'm not sure how only one person thought to introduce actual violence into the fight. Second, I have to say the ending, as sweet as it could've been, left a bitter taste in my mouth as the couple's union was essentially legitimized by the fact that Ray is killed. Of course, the fact that he was going to kill Matt justifies Emily's actions but her reaction is so nonchalant. I would've liked more resolution between them at this very moment.

Either that or not kill Ray. It seems like others have suggested this, although I've only skimmed the other comments.

In any case, I liked the update of Romeo & Juliet. I find it strange that you used this particular setting and iconography though. Not that it didn't work but my mind would've never gone to dueling food markets. How'd you come up with this? Seriously?

Anyway, I quite enjoyed this one and I'll be keeping an eye out for your future work.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, May 9th, 2011, 5:40pm; Reply: 61

Quoted from Grandma Bear
Brett, you wanted some feedback from some of SS female members on this one. I guess you don't know me very well, lol! I'm probably the least romantic person on these boards and I hate rom-coms. Having said that, I'd like to think of myself as someone who can read a script regardless of genre and author and be completely unbiased in my comments. So, here goes…

First off, in regards to the single space action lines. They are correctly written, but incorrectly labeled and they are definitely not a montage. A montage is a series of short scenes. What you have here is a SERIES OF SHOTS and in regards to the 1 minute/page thing that is also how those shots will play out. That is why they are spaced like that. If they were lumped together in chunkier action paragraphs you would get a longer film than the page suggests.  At least IMHO!!

Hey Pia,

Thanks so much for taking time out of your schedule to read this.
I appreciate you reading this despite the genre not being of interest.
I've run into that problem in the past, so I doubly thank you for the effort!
I think you're spot on about the montage vs. series of shots thing.
You are the second or third person to point that out to me.
In my most recent work, I made the change, thanks.

Quoted from Grandma Bear

The story itself was okay. I hate to say this, but it's old. I did like the two grocery store idea, but since the story is a classic I knew exactly how it would end which brought it down some as far as interest goes. At least to me. I'm not sure because it's so not me, but I loved Titanic. I think it was because of the rich characters in it. I didn't feel much depth of characterization here though. Maybe that can be worked up some.

I can see how that might detract for you. It's a polarizing point.
For others, the classic trope replayed in a new setting can be fun.
It's true, the battle does ride shotgun over the characters in the second half.
Perhaps I obsess a bit much over my action description.
It's hard for me to restrain that, my mind pictures too many things.

Quoted from Grandma Bear

About the fight. I thought you handled the fight well and it had some interesting and creative props, but I think I would have preferred to see something a little more real. A real fight. Wether it would be a fist fight, arm wrestling or whatever. I know it said rom-com/fantasy, but it felt a little silly to me. Probably most other women would find it cute though.  Didn't quite get what the cooking oil was supposed to do. It seemed they dumped it out on the ground, but it had no effect on anything.

I also hate when women are told to go home and let the guys handle this or that!!! So I hated that Emily was locked up before the fight and also that Ray referred to her as his baby sister. If I was Emily I would knocked him out for that.  :)

The ending was sweet. No bun intended.

In short, a well told familiar story that you can be proud of and I'm sure most women would like.

Pia  :)

The battle stems from a childhood fantasy about rival markets.
I thought it would be fun to transform that into a self imposed Valentine OWC.
The cooking oil was to make the Almacs boys slip, causing them to regroup.
I should bring that across better in the action, thanks.

I'm glad you hated that Emily got locked up, mission accomplished.
I thought it would make her escape more effective.
She takes care of her own problems and can't be contained for long.
I wanted Emily to be strong willed and never yield to manly conceits.

Thanks again, if there's something you want eyes on, just ask.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, May 9th, 2011, 5:55pm; Reply: 62

Quoted from James McClung
Hey Brett,

Checked this out as promised. I must say, having now read everything you've posted here (I think), your writing does have that distinct voice that all committed writers seek within themselves. I've yet to feel, with your work, like I'm reading something I've read 100+ times before. Not to give you a big head, there's many writers here I enjoy for a certain something only they seem to offer, but I do think you deserve a kudos in that regard.

Hey James,

Thanks for the read and the nice words. The ego cookie is might tasty.
And well timed, a little encouragement goes especially a long way today.
I'm glad others enjoy the story, I sure had fun putting it together for folks.

Quoted from James McClung

Naturally, this lies in the details. Emily and Matt meeting for the first time. The way they "shake hands..." Very particular. Odd but sweet. It set the tone for the rest of the script. Then, of course, there's the lot battle. The character that kneels down to check the bread. "Sourdough." Again, it speaks of very particular sensibilities. I enjoyed these little details.

I tried to set the stage for the absurd battle to follow with a breadcrumb trail.
I do believe the devil is in the details with this craft.
Of course, it's only one component, but I find often it's one people latch onto.
A line, an image, a gesture, something that pops in your mind.
It's like a gateway drug and the script is the only "cure", if you will.

Quoted from James McClung

Speaking of the lot battle, I find your comments on Robbing the Grave stranger now as this script is much more of a tonal romp than mine is. That said, I didn't take issue with it. I thought the gearing up for battle was strange at first but I made a conscious decision to see it out and I feel it worked.

It did cross my mind you might say something like this, it's cool, I deserve it.
Perhaps it's that odd aforementioned breadcrumb trail that made this easier to digest.
That off kilter sensibility that helps one suspend disbelief.
I'm looking for it in your story, it's an elusive bugger, a clever detail, etc.
It could be just as simple as a glowing gem and a few words from the client.
It's bizarre how the thinnest thread can sometimes do the heavy lifting for you.

Quoted from James McClung

The only jump that didn't sit well with me was Emily killing her brother. First off, I'm not sure how only one person thought to introduce actual violence into the fight. Second, I have to say the ending, as sweet as it could've been, left a bitter taste in my mouth as the couple's union was essentially legitimized by the fact that Ray is killed. Of course, the fact that he was going to kill Matt justifies Emily's actions but her reaction is so nonchalant. I would've liked more resolution between them at this very moment.

Either that or not kill Ray. It seems like others have suggested this, although I've only skimmed the other comments.

In any case, I liked the update of Romeo & Juliet. I find it strange that you used this particular setting and iconography though. Not that it didn't work but my mind would've never gone to dueling food markets. How'd you come up with this? Seriously?

Anyway, I quite enjoyed this one and I'll be keeping an eye out for your future work.

Actually, I didn't kill Ray.
That's my bad in how it's poorly worded.
Ray charged Matt with the butcher knife.
Emily put herself between her brother and her lover.
The sheer inertia of the blade cuts Emily's hands as she grabs it.
Emily comforts Ray and he slumps from emotional exhaustion, not a wound.
That series of shots needs work, you're not the first to find fault there.

You really want me to pull back the curtain? Ok.
The rival markets is a real life situation from my childhood.
I dreamed once the two markets had these gang fights after hours, like turf wars.
The dream stuck with me for over two decades.
I was looking to write a short outside my wheelhouse and in a new genre.
Valentine's Day was right around the corner, so a self imposed OWC it became.
It's the first thing I've written that's a tad semi-autobiographical.

Thanks for your time, James. Your comments are always valued.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Andrew, May 17th, 2011, 4:57pm; Reply: 63
Brett,

I'm of one those guys who likes to read clever, witty descriptions as opposed to homogeneous, bland, uninspiring descriptions. You have some good stuff in here and I think I'd quote just a couple.

EXT. PARKING LOT - NIGHT
A fat man walks across the lot and whistles an upbeat tune,
grocery bag in hand.
Overhead lights turn off, one by one. Darkness closes in on
the customer and he stops whistling.
The fat man breaks into a run and fumbles for his keys. He
opens the door and dumps the groceries on the back seat.
Tires squeal as the vehicle exits the lot.

That's a very funny visual and a I'd personally love to direct this element of the scene.

And this description:

A single bread torpedo launches from
the Almacs rear flank.

It just made me laugh. Good stuff.

The early part of the script actually evoked The Majestic for me, which in itself plays on a Capra theme. It was the image of 1950s wholesome America. As Libby says, West Side Story but also Grease kept popping into my head. You pretty expertly wrote the vibe of those worlds onto the page here while owning your own story. That's talent.

I couldn't help but think of the gloriously OTT fight scene of Anchorman with your own here. And in the words of Brian Fantana, this scene... "60% of the time it works, every time."

Good work.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, May 26th, 2011, 9:40am; Reply: 64

Quoted from Andrew
Brett,

I'm of one those guys who likes to read clever, witty descriptions as opposed to homogeneous, bland, uninspiring descriptions. You have some good stuff in here and I think I'd quote just a couple.

EXT. PARKING LOT - NIGHT
A fat man walks across the lot and whistles an upbeat tune,
grocery bag in hand.
Overhead lights turn off, one by one. Darkness closes in on
the customer and he stops whistling.
The fat man breaks into a run and fumbles for his keys. He
opens the door and dumps the groceries on the back seat.
Tires squeal as the vehicle exits the lot.

That's a very funny visual and a I'd personally love to direct this element of the scene.

And this description:

A single bread torpedo launches from
the Almacs rear flank.

It just made me laugh. Good stuff.


Hey Andrew,

My bad for not responding to this sooner.
I've been deep in rewrites all month and this slipped through the cracks.
Thanks so much for pointing out that detail.
I think you're the first to do and it's a crucial beat in my eyes.
The fat man, to me, is the bridge between the romance and the battle.
He represents the move from whimsy into pure fantasy.
He's our guide into the absurd, so I wrote him with that in mind.
I'm thrilled it worked for you, the magic's in the details for me.

Quoted from Andrew

The early part of the script actually evoked The Majestic for me, which in itself plays on a Capra theme. It was the image of 1950s wholesome America. As Libby says, West Side Story but also Grease kept popping into my head. You pretty expertly wrote the vibe of those worlds onto the page here while owning your own story. That's talent.

I couldn't help but think of the gloriously OTT fight scene of Anchorman with your own here. And in the words of Brian Fantana, this scene... "60% of the time it works, every time."

Good work.


I've gotten a generous amount of well regarded titles this story is likened to.
Of course, Romeo & Juliet and West Side Story are obvious.
Other folks have mentioned Amelie and Rebel Without a Cause.
And to add Grease and Anchorman to that list is pretty rad for me, thanks.
I've never tried romance before, this was a self imposed Valentine OWC.
Your words about the little details are truly inspiring.
I put a lot of love into this and I'm pleased it spoke to you.

Regards,
E.D.

Posted by: Electric Dreamer, September 27th, 2011, 10:14am; Reply: 65
Here's something I thought I'd never say about this script...

It's been optioned. ;D

I granted a UCLA film student the rights to produce West Side Markets.
It will be for their thesis project due May 2012.

She plans to add two musical numbers to the story.
One when Matt and Emily first meet under the sign.
And a second during the parking lot battle.

Once completed, she intends to enter the film into the festival circuit.

I'll keep folks posted as I get more news.
I'd love to see this one make it to the screen, fingers crossed!

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: reuel51, September 27th, 2011, 10:59am; Reply: 66
That's awesome! This will play great on screen. Definitely keep us posted.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, December 28th, 2011, 12:45pm; Reply: 67

Quoted from reuel51
That's awesome! This will play great on screen. Definitely keep us posted.


Thanks for the words of encouragement.
Sadly, the UCLA film student dropped the option today.

However, I do get a fair amount of requests for the script.
So, we'll see what the future holds for our supermarket sweethearts! ;D

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: mmmarnie, December 28th, 2011, 2:50pm; Reply: 68
Ha!  Loved it!  Had the West Side Story soundtrack playing in my head during the rumble scene.  

I thought this was written well and a very clever idea.  Maybe could be trimmed a little in the first half but other than than it flowed very well.

Too bad the option was dropped.  This would be a lot of fun to watch.  Maybe someone else will be brave enough to try it...
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, December 30th, 2011, 11:49am; Reply: 69

Quoted from mmmarnie
Ha!  Loved it!  Had the West Side Story soundtrack playing in my head during the rumble scene.  

I thought this was written well and a very clever idea.  Maybe could be trimmed a little in the first half but other than than it flowed very well.

Too bad the option was dropped.  This would be a lot of fun to watch.  Maybe someone else will be brave enough to try it...


Hey Marnie,

Thanks for dusting off this tale. I'm terribly fond of it.
So, it's great to hear it evoked those West Side Story memories for you.
This story is ripe for a song, should a director want to add to the running time.

I hope someday to see this one get made.
Had hopes that the success of "Glee" might attract a producer.
But that show's luster faded pretty fast.
Still, it was a very rewarding experience to bring this story to the page.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: LC, December 30th, 2011, 6:38pm; Reply: 70
Just noticed this update.

Bummer Brett, 'optioned' then withdrawn.

This is one of my all time fav scripts on SS. I hope someone with sufficient film making cred & expertise finds this one Brett and does justice to the script... and casts it well too, cause that's pivotal.

I'm sure it'll be discovered at some point, just don't sell if off to any Tom, Dick or Harry is my advice. It's a terrific script, would be great to see it made into a terrific film.
Posted by: CoopBazinga, December 31st, 2011, 12:38am; Reply: 71
Hey Brett,

I don’t think I have read anything chessier than the ending of this but I’m guessing that was the intention.

I don’t have much to add really to what has already been mentioned in all the previous posts. This is superbly written IMO, I read through it like a speed train so didn’t even take down any notes which is good.

I thought it was well constructed and didn’t overstay its welcome, just a nice short all round.

Good luck with getting it optioned again.

Good work!

Happy New Year.

Steve
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, January 2nd, 2012, 11:57am; Reply: 72

Quoted from LC
Just noticed this update.

Bummer Brett, 'optioned' then withdrawn.

This is one of my all time fav scripts on SS. I hope someone with sufficient film making cred & expertise finds this one Brett and does justice to the script... and casts it well too, cause that's pivotal.

I'm sure it'll be discovered at some point, just don't sell if off to any Tom, Dick or Harry is my advice. It's a terrific script, would be great to see it made into a terrific film.


Hey LC!

Thanks for the kind words, I do have a big gooey soft spot for this script.
And I agree that I need to be very diligent about whom I give the option to.
The ULCA student did have a musical backgrounds as well, which helps.

I'm sure there's a good reason why things didn't move forward at this time.
The script's not going anywhere, so I'll keep my hopes up.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Colkurtz8, January 4th, 2012, 7:18am; Reply: 73
Brett

Like you’re other works this was very well written and full of interesting, clever ideas and characters. It was a cute story, pretty formulaic in its structure and theme but what elevated it above its seen-it-done-1000-times roots was the comedic central battle sequence in act 2. The care and attention to detail concerning each shop and the associated familial dynamics and feuding between them enriched events and made for a more engaging and amusing read.

The most striking thing about it was the abrupt changes in tone which I’ve touched upon in the notes below. It starts off as a nostalgic look back at an old neighbourhood and the two shops. The flashback in conjunction with the Old Emily speaking indicated a tale of memories and lost love surrounding a particular day in February. The illicit affair of Emily and their competition’s son accentuated this along with the stereotypical over protective older brother.

Gradually, it transforms into a macho war of words confrontation, escalating into a mock battle between both shops complete with jousting before reverting back to the dreamy romanticism in the final pages similar to the opening. It’s like two different films in one, which is not a bad thing, on the contrary I think these moments of gravitas bookend the madcap action rather well.

I presume this was written around Valentine’s Day or maybe for a competition in which it as theme, if so, its seamlessly incorporated into the narrative. As I’ve said already, I think you’re a very strong visual writer and no more so then in that shot of the neon light sparking as Emily and Matt’s kiss. In a more serious script this would be cheesy and overwrought but given the comedy inflection it takes I think it works perfectly.

A sweet, well judged epilogue to finish thing off nicely too.

Well done.


Some notes, typos, grammar, observations, etc.


I would consider putting any writing/print the character or what you want us to read in inverted commas.

“Emily twirls and models the apron.”
“Matt holds Emily by the shoulders and touches her hair.”
“Emily hangs the Almacs apron on the rack and sighs.”

I would look to dropping “and” wherever possible in the prose too, helps the flow of the read. You seem to have a firm grasp on the technical writing aspects though so maybe this is a conscious decision by you to leave them in. It’s a matter of taste really.

MATT
That’s a nice first name.

EMILY
I like your first name too.

-- An odd compliment to give someone but I take it this is because of the family dispute so their last names are almost taboo between them. Is this why they draw attention to their first names? If so, nicely done.

Just read on a see you have elaborated on it. So yeah, nicely done ;)

“The sign goes dark.”

-- Is this because of Ray’s actions with the knife and the fuse box. Has he seen them? It’s left a little unclear as it is.

EMILY
We made a promise to never let our
names get in the way of us.

-- Seems like a moot point to make since they are meeting secretly in Matt’s Senior’s office.

Sorta reminds me a little of Walter Hill’s “The Warriors” where each gang has their own outfits and talk jive to one another when face to face. The exchange between Ray and Matt in the dairy aisle, referring to each other as “Almacs pretty boy” and “Demoula thug” respectively is very reminiscent of this.

RAY
Then we settle it, with a rumble.
Your boys against mine. Tonight.
Winner takes over the parking lot.

-- The above line is something that could come straight out of that film; the meeting place, the word “rumble” and the winner-takes-all territorial prize all ring of sleazy, 70s, Jack Hill-esque exploitative cinema. Love the film and the genre so it’s all good.

The following scene of the fat customer fleeing the darkening shop fronts before you go to a montage of both sides gearing up for war also lent itself to this feel. Although a significant tonal shift from the early tender scenes between Emily and Matt but it still put a smile on my face.

“A chubby Demoula boy takes the bread upside the head.”

-- I dunno if this is a typo or just your way of describing the action but “upside the head” seems a funny way of phrasing it.

RAY
Sourdough! Take cover!

-- Great line.

The fight takes on such a tongue in cheek impression as it progresses that it became more like the parking lot scrap from “Anchorman”. I liked the use of the various supermarket paraphernalia as weapons, some great visuals in there with the pricing guns and trolley jousting.

The introduction of Ray’s blades and sharpening rod jolts us right back to reality.

Col.
Posted by: TheSecond, January 6th, 2012, 3:45am; Reply: 74
Brett, this was great dude.  Your attention to detail in enviable at every level.  Bravo.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, January 6th, 2012, 11:57am; Reply: 75

Quoted from CoopBazinga
Hey Brett,

I don’t think I have read anything chessier than the ending of this but I’m guessing that was the intention.

I don’t have much to add really to what has already been mentioned in all the previous posts. This is superbly written IMO, I read through it like a speed train so didn’t even take down any notes which is good.

I thought it was well constructed and didn’t overstay its welcome, just a nice short all round.

Good luck with getting it optioned again.

Good work!

Happy New Year.

Steve


Hey Steve!

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed the story.
This script was a Valentine's week experiment for me.
So yeah, the schmaltz at the end was rather intentional. ;)

All based on an idea, well, image really, that I had in my head 25 years ago.

And I'd like to say it's nice to see new members making their voices heard here.
Good on you for rolling up your sleeves and wading into the forums!

Cheers,
E.D.


Quoted from TheSecond
Brett, this was great dude.  Your attention to detail in enviable at every level.  Bravo.


Hey Chris,

Pleased to hear you enjoyed this little tale.
Thought you might get a kick out of the classic foundation of the narrative.
Mixing the classics with Valentine's Day and a supermarket rumble sounded fun to me!

Best of luck with all your endeavors.
I hope one day I can get this script re-optioned.

Regards,
E.D.

Col, I'll address your awesomely mammoth review next!
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, February 7th, 2012, 10:41am; Reply: 76

Quoted from Colkurtz8
Brett

Like you’re other works this was very well written and full of interesting, clever ideas and characters. It was a cute story, pretty formulaic in its structure and theme but what elevated it above its seen-it-done-1000-times roots was the comedic central battle sequence in act 2. The care and attention to detail concerning each shop and the associated familial dynamics and feuding between them enriched events and made for a more engaging and amusing read.


Hey Col!

My apologies for holding off on replying to your thoughtful comments.
I wanted to bump the thread near the script's one year anniversary.

This was a self imposed Valentine's Day OWC I took on.
I thought establishing a genuine romance in so few pages would be fun!

The Act Two battle I got into my head when I was a BMX riding lad.
In my neighborhood, two such markets existed.
I was biking about late one night, lights humming over empty parking lots.
And I thought to myself...
"Wouldn't it be cool if the two markets had secret turf wars after hours?!?!?" ;D

And yeah, that means I'm the fat dude in the lot bridging acts one and two! :P


Quoted from Colkurtz8

The most striking thing about it was the abrupt changes in tone which I’ve touched upon in the notes below.

I bookended my childhood fantasy with a Romeo & Juliet wrapper.
To that end, I took a metaphorical page out of musicals.
I noticed they seem to have a devil may care attitude when it comes to genre.
Specifically, during a musical number.
So, I treated my fantasy battle like a Broadway musical number. ;D

Quoted from Colkurtz8

I presume this was written around Valentine’s Day or maybe for a competition in which it as theme, if so, its seamlessly incorporated into the narrative.

Very much so an internal competition.
I try to "live with" ideas for a while before making pages.
I find it helps me to incorporate seemingly obtrusive devices into a script.

Quoted from Colkurtz8

I would consider putting any writing/print the character or what you want us to read in inverted commas.

“Emily twirls and models the apron.”
“Matt holds Emily by the shoulders and touches her hair.”
“Emily hangs the Almacs apron on the rack and sighs.”

I would look to dropping “and” wherever possible in the prose too, helps the flow of the read. You seem to have a firm grasp on the technical writing aspects though so maybe this is a conscious decision by you to leave them in. It’s a matter of taste really.

Not sure what you mean about the commas, Col. Can you elaborate?
LOL! I don't even know how to make inverted quotes with my keyboard.
I used to write with "and", now I've mostly eliminated it.
I've debated revisiting this tale and giving it an anniversary polish.

Quoted from Colkurtz8

“The sign goes dark.”

-- Is this because of Ray’s actions with the knife and the fuse box. Has he seen them? It’s left a little unclear as it is.

I can fix that, no problemo.

Quoted from Colkurtz8

Sorta reminds me a little of Walter Hill’s “The Warriors” where each gang has their own outfits and talk jive to one another when face to face. The exchange between Ray and Matt in the dairy aisle, referring to each other as “Almacs pretty boy” and “Demoula thug” respectively is very reminiscent of this.

RAY
Then we settle it, with a rumble.
Your boys against mine. Tonight.
Winner takes over the parking lot.

-- The above line is something that could come straight out of that film; the meeting place, the word “rumble” and the winner-takes-all territorial prize all ring of sleazy, 70s, Jack Hill-esque exploitative cinema. Love the film and the genre so it’s all good.

Damn Col, you got me. I am a big fan of Coffy, Foxy Brown & The Big Doll House!
Going this route felt like a natural progression from the West Side Story roots.
That pulp gang melodrama sprinkled with just enough "Warriors' street bravado.
From the 50's opener, to the 60's romance, to the 70's exploitative rumble!
Gosh, I'm such a dated bloke! ;D

Quoted from Colkurtz8

“A chubby Demoula boy takes the bread upside the head.”

-- I dunno if this is a typo or just your way of describing the action but “upside the head” seems a funny way of phrasing it.

It's a self indulgent moment I gave myself, using my "teen speak" there. ;)

Quoted from Colkurtz8

RAY
Sourdough! Take cover!

-- Great line.

All part of my anti-sourdough campaign! ;D

Quoted from Colkurtz8

The fight takes on such a tongue in cheek impression as it progresses that it became more like the parking lot scrap from “Anchorman”. I liked the use of the various supermarket paraphernalia as weapons, some great visuals in there with the pricing guns and trolley jousting.

A few someones even mentioned that battle being evocative of Bugsy Malone.
You're a sharp one, Col. You pretty much nailed the impetus for this tale.
I tried to draw on a variety of inspirations that I could hodge podge together.
But, the funny thing is... I've never watched that scene in Anchorman! ;D

Thanks a lot for the detailed commentary.
It's a real treat to read such well composed thoughts.
And even better when you liked what you're writing about.

This tale helped me beat back the blues this time last year when I really needed it.
And having others share/bask in that joyful energy is stone cold awesome! ;D

Valentine Regards,
E.D.
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