Before I wrote my last script, I read Blake Synder's Save The Cat, which I'm sure most of you around here are familiar with.   Now, while I don't agree with everything he says (and actually find him quite annoying most of the time), his section on structure is pretty sound.

We argue about structure a lot on this site, especially when it comes to the film's catalyst (or the inciting incident).  Snyder puts the catalyst at Page 12, but I know some who say 10, and even others who go earlier.  Synder doesn't bend on this rule; it has to be page 12.

The reason I start this thread is because I was recently watching Talk to Her, when I realized that the catalyst for the film isn't until 27 minutes in.  I found this particularly odd because I was shocked to see this, as it didn't feel like it had been that long.

So, I was wondering: what are some other films that do this?  I'm also interested to know the longest a film's gone before introducing the catalyst.

Rocky?

I seem to recall that the real inciting incident...Apollo picking Rocky for a fight, didn't take place until way into the script.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films Rocky? I seem to recall that the real inciting incident...Apollo picking Rocky for a fight, didn't take place until way into the script.

You're absolutely right.  Apollo doesn't decide to fight Rocky until 34 minutes into the film.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but this guy wrote Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot. Clearly his career wasn't worthy of becoming screenwriting gospel. It's ludicrous to even consider it, IMHO.

Quoted from Andrew I'm sorry, I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but this guy wrote Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot. Clearly his career wasn't worthy of becoming screenwriting gospel. It's ludicrous to even consider it, IMHO.

Snyder aside, it's not some secret that people think the Catalyst should come very early in a film.  I don't think the guy was a genius either, but I also don't think pointing out that one of his films is bad takes away from everything he said.

Let me throw this out there; I see a lot of arguments about when the catalyst should be, and they are helpful. But like so many things to do with screen writing, I think the real focus gets lost. In one sense, you can break it down this way: your movie needs to be able to get people to come see it(so it needs good trailers), and you need to have people leave satisfied so they can spread the word.

I am not trying to be shallow about it either. A movie should entertain or stimulate you, preferably some combination. If you have entertaining or stimulating things in the first 20 minutes, but no catalyst, have you violated some universal moral law?

Don't get me wrong, having a catalyst in the right spot is important to emotionally engage people. But as the real goal is to engage them, as long as they are engaged the movie is working IMO. Shots of Jack D for everyone, except those that don't agree with me!

Most formulas are decided upon by analyzing films.  They are an average representation.  There is and are always going to be exceptions to an average.

I didn't even start this thread to argue structure and formatting, I just wanted to know some films that broke "convention" and broke it well.

I like that idea Dressel. Hopefully some of the film people will list some here. I don't see enough films, let me think about it. How about Alien? Was a long time before the Alien was on board. A Loooong time. But there were plenty of subplots and some real cool stuff.

"Star Wars" -- consistently cited as a textbook example of the Hero's Journey -- also has a notably long first act.

How long is it before Luke finds his deep-fried Aunt and Uncle?

I forget how long exactly before we reach that inciting incident, but it is pretty well into the film, for sure.

Man bert.  I was just going to say exactly that.

Quoted from leitskev How about Alien? Was a long time before the Alien was on board. A Loooong time. But there were plenty of subplots and some real cool stuff.

Well, the actual inciting incident of Alien is the stress call to find the other group of people that eventually leads to bringing the alien back on board.

Quoted from bert How long is it before Luke finds his deep-fried Aunt and Uncle?

40 minutes in.  I think we might have a winner.

How in holy heckfire are you finding the timings so fast?

Quoted from JonnyBoy How in holy heckfire are you finding the timings so fast?

Haha.  All the films named so far have been 20th Century Fox films, and I work for a post house that has nearly the entire Fox catalog on my computer.

What about Memento?  I think the catalyst for that one is about midway through the film.

Speaking of coming late in a film, how about 'Leaving Las Vegas' from Mike Figgis?  The credits don't even come until way in the movie.  I forget the time exactly, imdb has the credits at fifteen minutes in, but I remember it being a lot later for some reason.  Is this a 20th Century Fox movie, Matt?

Quoted from rc1107 Speaking of coming late in a film, how about 'Leaving Las Vegas' from Mike Figgis?  The credits don't even come until way in the movie.  I forget the time exactly, imdb has the credits at fifteen minutes in, but I remember it being a lot later for some reason.  Is this a 20th Century Fox movie, Matt?

It is, but for whatever reason we don't have it.

I think the catalyst for that movie would be when he meets the prostitute.  Not sure if I remember when that happens.

EDIT: Actually, him going to Vegas might be considered the catalyst, and that happens very early in the movie.

Quoted from mcornetto What about Memento?  I think the catalyst for that one is about midway through the film.

p.91 of Save the Cat - "Screw Memento!"

Andrew Allen, got to say, your comment here is the 2nd time we've agreed on something in a few weeks, and that's got to be a record!  I've said it many times before, why peeps listen to Blake Snyder is way beyond me.  I don't think there is a single script he wrote that was even half way decent, was there?

Make your script work and don't worry about what page anything happens on.  There isn't a single paying customer that is watching his watch, expecting anything to happen 12 minutes in.

RUBBISH!!!