Ginger by Mark Lyons (rc1107) - Short, Horror - A family begins to question nature when their infant child begins sleepwalking. 13 pages - pdf, format 8)

Mark, my friend, you seem to be on a writing terror as of late.  That's always great to see.

When I saw this posted with your name, I was excited, as I like your stuff.  I wish I could say I liked this, but I can't.

First of all, the writing itself isn't your best work, IMO.  Lots of missing words here and there that make the read uncomfortable.  Also, a number of fragments running around.  These appear to be conscious decisions, so I guess it's some kind of style you're adopting, but I personally do not like it at all.

Story-wise, it just seems to be a number of things...missing an ending, missing a general theme or story, and also, having too many things going on that have nothing to do with anything.  I kept waiting for this to take off, then, as the end neared, I keep wondering how you were going to finish this and tie all this together.  I don't think you did either, and I'm not sure quite why.

An FYI - You used "lay" a number of times, when it should be "lie".  A great help is right here.  http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/lay-versus-lie.aspx

I also didn't get much out of the characters, and I think I should have, based on all the dialogue.

I don't know, bro, but it just didn't work for me. I think the bones are there for an interesting and eerie little tale, but there's alot missing as well as alot of extra fat that should go.

Hope this helps.

Damn it, Jeff!  Your fucking link keeps on kicking me offline!

Now I'll never know if I'm going to lay down and go to sleep or lie down and go to sleep!

Anyway, thanks for taking a read through this.

Yeah, this has been a very prolific year for me.  So far, I've written a full feature and I'm 50-so pages into another and got a storyboard and in-depth synopsis ready for another feature, wrote 6 short screenplays, 2 prose short stories and just finished rewriting 3 other old short scripts and it's only May.  As long as 1 of those stories end up being decent, I'll be happy.

My little spurt's just about over now, though.  From here on out, I'm only concentrating on finishing the 50 pages of the feature I have and rewriting the feature I wrote earlier this year.  I know it's quality and not quantity, but I have no idea where this writing frenzy is coming from and I don't plan on stopping to look back at anything until the smoke clears.

But, from what you've said about 'Ginger', it definately looks like I'll definately have to go back and fix this one up.

Ginger is actually an unused back story for a nun character who eventually becomes canonized as a modern-day saint that I'm thinking about tackling in the future.  I'm thinking maybe that's why the story might seem incomplete.

I was hoping the realization that the infant has psychic visions would be enough to pass as a suitable ending and make it stand on its own apart from her grown up life, while still leaving it open that there's a lot more going on.  I guess I was just kind of hoping to see if the story grabs interest before I scratch or shelve it totally.

As for the 'fragments' you're referring to, I'm just using these shorts to play around with different ways of telling a story.  As you've seen, I've had stories that could be considered overwriting, so now I'm trying out a more skeletal approach and seeing if I can find a happy medium that I feel comfortable with.  Just trying new things to explore all aspects of the craft.

Thanks again for taking a look-see and letting me know what you think.  Your thoughts are always appreciated.

As for the link you posted for the 'lay' and 'lie' thing, I have no idea what's going on.  I don't know if it's just my computer, but it keeps on closing and reopening the tab for the link over and over and freezes all my other windows up for a minute or two.  I admit, I've never really thought or tried to learn when to use 'lay' or 'lie'.  I'll definately check into it now.

See you around and thanks again.

- Mark

Hi Mark. I thought this was really interesting up until page 7, and then it fell apart for me. There's some neat atmosphere that I liked. The creepy, prematurely developed infant was well done if those scenes are looked at independently from the rest of the story.

However, there's some things that were set up that I was expecting to contribute to the conclusion. The main one being the fact that the baby can walk when having the premonitions. This seemed to be going somewhere, then didn't.

I was expecting the dog to play a bigger part, as you give it two scenes. Also, for some reason, because of the time spent introducing the mother being as disabled, I was expecting this to be apart of the story arch. (That might be my problem -- wheelchairs are often used in horror films as a gimmick. I'm not saying you can't have a disabled person without it being being a part of the narrative -- it's just the genre comes with it's own stereotypes.)

It does read like this is an introduction to a much larger story. On the positive it seems like you have something really interesting here, which you can expand on. On the negative, as a stand alone short it left me a bit befuddled.

Thanks for the read. I've read a couple of your shorts and I like the way you develop characters with the minimum of fuss in a realistic way. Your dialogue reads believable in this one for sure, and is one of the scripts strengths.

EDIT - I have just read your above post. IT IS part of a larger story. Thought so. :)

Hey, Mark

Along with reading the short, I looked over dreamscales review, so I'll address some of what he said. I approach to any short from this site is do I want more, with that said, I do. I think this could go somewhere. Good job.

Dream mention some of the grammatical errors and I noticed some of that too. Along with that I noticed, possibly, an editing problem. In the scene where ants attack Gabriella, it's edited as Greg is inside looking out, yet, you have a close up of the ball before you cut back to the EXT. of the yard.

Several things you did well though, IMO, as far as story. You gave the main character a problem, she's handicapped, she can't use her legs. Things escalate, first Ginger walks then Ginger puts herself in danger turning on water in the bathtub and finally the ants attack Gabriella . Adding another level to those scenes is the subtext setup and revealed about Ginger being able to walk means and her being able to talk means.

I do agree some that there could of been a little more character shown, which leads me to another mistake that being while your main character has a problem not being able to walk she doesn't have a character problem that she'll be able to change. I think something simple, though. A look or gesture of contempt from Jillian to those attempting to help her because she can't walk.

And I don't know if you did this intentionally, but I like the aspect of the legs appearing to be some sort of focal point. There's Jillian who can't walk, Ginger who's walking at 7 months old and Gabriella who's attacked at the legs by the ants.

Good job, good luck on those other projects.

Hey Mark,

your set up is great. Had me reading along wanting to know what was going on. But I gotta admit to feeling a tiny bit confused. Ok, and with your explanation it all becomes clearer, but having said that your script should do that for me. I had trouble linking the storyline with Gabrielle and Ginger's storyline - seemed for a bit like two separate things - think it was the 'snake' thing put me on a different path.

Now you could argue there's something to be said for not needing to spell things out - esp. in a piece like this, but it didn't quite gel for me.

So, my overall feeling is it needs tweaking but you've some great bits of tension inbuilt (nice device, Mum being in the wheelchair - the hot water tap etc) but it's just a bit anticlimactic in the end. Btw, if Jeff's link is giving you grief, try this one: http://grammar.about.com/od/words/a/layliegloss.htm

'tis a pet peeve of mine, the 'lie/lay' thing, pointed it out in one of Baltis' scripts yonks ago. Like they say: 'lay down Sally' is one thing... but that's creative license cause it's a song.

Oh, and I'd fix up the line after little Ginger is set upon by the ants. Jmho, but the 'get her help' line didn't sound urgent enough for me.

Don't give up on this one though, it's a very nice idea, and it definitely held my attention. Looking forward to a second draft. :)

Hey Basket Case,

Thanks for taking a look at this.  I'm glad to see that at least you liked about 62% of the script.  (I'm a big math type person, so I like looking at percentages.)  :-)

And yeah, you hit the nail on the head that it's part of a bigger story.  Well, a backstory to a bigger story.  I was hoping that part would be able to stand on its own as a story, but I guess it does leave too much open and makes for an unsatisfying ending, as I wasn't able to hit upon a couple focal points, such as the reason why Jillian was in a wheelchair.  Sorry I left more questions than answers.

I guess I wrote this because, (well, let me scratch that.  I know why I wrote this.)  I guess I submitted this to see if it would gain enough interest for me to work on the entire scope of the story as a feature (in the future).  Thank you for letting me know that at least it is interesting to you and there are things there to work with.

And thank you for the comments about the characters and dialogue, too.  I was curious, did you post on anything else you read of mine and I missed it?  I don't remember seeing you, but I know I have some old stuff on here that I posted that I forgot about (back when I wasn't too exactly sure how to use the site.)  If I never did respond or thank you, I'm sorry.  I promise I'll make it up somehow.

But thanks for taking a look at this one and letting me know what you thought.

- Mark

Hey Liam.  Welcome to the boards!

Thank you very much for taking a read through this and letting me know what you thought.  I'm glad you want to see more of it and think it could go somewhere.  That helps me in deciding on whether to devote anymore effort to the main story I'm thinking about working on or not.

As for the grammatical errors, that was me just experimenting with a different style than I'm accustomed to.  I wanted the descriptives to have a skeletal, or bare bones, feel to them, just to see how crisper of a read I could get.  So, to accomplish that this time, I tried to leave out as many articles as I could to see how it would read.  I don't know if I necessarily like it, but, I don't know.  I'll just have to see how my writing develops from here and see just how much I incorporate it into my everyday writing.

Quoted from Liam James I noticed, possibly, an editing problem. In the scene where ants attack Gabriella, it's edited as Greg is inside looking out, yet, you have a close up of the ball before you cut back to the EXT. of the yard.

That wasn't supposed to be a close up of the ball, actually.  I just wanted to convey that, from Greg's POV, we see Gabriella and the ball through the window.  I never use camera directions in my scripts, (I don't even like using Fade In or Fade Out, honestly), or I would've labeled that as Greg's POV.  I was hoping that by Greg looking out the window and me describing it like that, I wouldn't have to use a POV slug and take the reader out of the story.  I'll have to think about how I can make that more clear.  Thank you for bringing that up.

Thanks for the compliments about the scenes escalating and the levels of tension.

I know I didn't delve too much into anybody's character, because I kind of wanted to be in and out of the story.  I didn't want to have to get too involved into why some of the characters are like they are, because this is supposed to be part of a bigger piece.

And nice catch on noticing that this story focuses a lot on legs.  That also works itself into the main feature I'm thinking about tackling.

Thank you again very much for taking a look at this, Liam.  Glad you liked it for the most part.

Hey Libby,

And thank you for taking a look at this one.  I was actually going to PM you sometime this week and ask what stories you've submitted to SS that you'd like anybody to take a look at, because I did like your script for the Showdown a lot and I'd like to read some more of your stuff.

Quoted from LC your set up is great. Had me reading along wanting to know what was going on. But I gotta admit to feeling a tiny bit confused. Ok, and with your explanation it all becomes clearer, but having said that your script should do that for me.

Yeah, this one didn't have the closure that I was hoping it would.  I guess it was because I was still thinking about the entire scope of what I'm doing for the story, I didn't just concentrate on this aspect of it, so I left it open knowing that I would explain it later.  I see now that's a tootsy-no-no and I understand why you view it as anti-climactic.

And thanks for the link to that site about 'lay' and 'lie'.  Jeff's is still disconnecting and reconnecting me for some reason.  I don't know if it's my computer or that site.

Quoted from LC Oh, and I'd fix up the line after little Ginger is set upon by the ants. Jmho, but the 'get her help' line didn't sound urgent enough for me.

Hmm.  I'm a little confused by what you mean.  Did you mean after GABRIELLA is attacked by the ants, and the line where her parents are talking about taking her to the hospital didn't sound urgent enough?  I think that's what you mean and I think I understand, but I just want to clarify.

Thanks again for taking a look Libby.  I'm glad you liked the idea behind it, and (as you may have read in an earlier post of mine), I am maybe planning on working on a feature in the future and using this as a backstory of one of the characters.  I'm happy to see that it held your interest.

I'll be in touch with you soon about any stories you'd like me to take a look at or any that you'd recommend.

- Mark

Quoted from rc1107 I was curious, did you post on anything else you read of mine and I missed it?  I don't remember seeing you, but I know I have some old stuff on here that I posted that I forgot about (back when I wasn't too exactly sure how to use the site.)  If I never did respond or thank you, I'm sorry.  I promise I'll make it up somehow. - Mark

Hi Mark, I've just realised that I didn't post my thoughts on "A Few will find this difficult". I thought I had, but I must have had a moment. Thinking about it, I think other posters had already pretty much summed up everything I thought so I didn't want to repeat. Apologies. (I did enjoy it, BTW).

*Spoilers*

Hey Mark -

Read "Ginger" - and I think this one has potential...

My favorite bit of it is the fact that you leave the story hanging.  No need to see this through to a "bigger ending" or an detailed explanation of what's actually going on with Ginger.  To be, it's a positive that the ending remains unsettled, and open for interpretation.

As some of the other reviewers mentioned, I also enjoy the visuals that seem to be getting developed here (ie: a focus on legs for several of the characters, and water - both in the ditch and the tub.)  IMHO, you could push the envelope, and intentionally strengthen the visuals even further, to good effect.

Still, the script could be pulled tighter, and tweaked in various ways:

Add more suspension in the scene leading up to the ants.  

Play up Jinny's handicap more, as well as her need to feel independent despite her limitations.  It'd give her a good dose of "character"

Create more debate about the decision to take Gabriella to the hospital.  If it's a foregone conclusion that she'll go anyway, then Ginger's visions aren't all that pivotal.  

As for the bathroom scene...IMHO, neither parent seems shocked enough that Ginny's actually *speaking* to them at the age of seven months.  To me, it seems odd that they seemed more bothered by her walking, than actually talking!

But I'm interested to see where you go with this one in the rewrite...i

Cheers,

-J

Quoted from rc1107 Hey Libby, Hmm.  I'm a little confused by what you mean.  Did you mean after GABRIELLA is attacked by the ants, and the line where her parents are talking about taking her to the hospital didn't sound urgent enough?  I think that's what you mean ... - Mark

***** SPOILERS BELOW****

Mark, yep. That's the one. Just thought that scene required a bit more urgency, and it didn't quite come through for me in the dialogue or action.

I'd suggest you also ramp up a couple of the other desc. lines too, so that they read a little more active. Example: 'red razor insects envelop her bare legs' & 'her legs are horrible', just reads a little static to me.  If I were face to face with that situation/image, it might be more like: 'Fuck, she's blowing up like a balloon', 'get them off her, and get her to the hospital.' Something like that.

I like 'Ginger' though, even though she be quite a bit creepy. The point really, isn't it? Without spoon feeding your audience, might be an idea to thrown in a quick cutaway (grab) of Ginger while Gabriella is being set upon, just an idea. Then again that might be a bit cheesy.

Anyway, will definitely be keeping an eye out for that new draft, or bigger 'piece'. :)

Hi Mark,

I had a couple issues with this.  It felt like it lacked direction and a clear purpose.  Ginger has these weird things going on with her sleep, something is to be anticipated, and then her sister gets attacked by fire ants.  It just felt kind of incomplete for me, especially since at 7 months, Ginger is full-on walking, talking, and turning on water.  I thought there would be more of a supernatural factor at play here.  I know that in the bathroom she basically warned of what was to come with Gabriella but I don't feel that justified why this little infant was walking, talking, etc.  I suppose the walking part is possible, but the whole sentences and turning on water I'm not too sure about.

I was also expecting the dog and the snake to play a part.  The fire ants in that sense were a surprise but I'm not sure they were the way to go.  

And I'm kind of confused what happened at the very end with Jillian and Greg talking about Ginger.  What'd I miss?

So it's not my favorite of yours, but that was bound to happen.  Plus when your previous work has a shock factor of incest, that's pretty hard to follow up ha-ha.

Greg

Hey Basket Case.

Thanks for taking a look at 'Difficult'.  Lol.  I do that a lot, too.  Most of the time, I'll download a script and I'll read it while I'm at the park or something and write my thoughts in my SimplyNotebook, then I'll forget to go back and make sure I responded to it on the thread.


Hey Libby,

Yeah, I get what you mean about not enough urgency when her legs swell up from the alkaloid from the ants.  You're right, I have to find a way to play that out better and more effectively.

Thank you guys both again for checking it out.

Ok I read this one and I liked it.

Its a "fast" read (whatever that means) But I was interested enough to finish it in one setting.

I could also picture this story in my mind fairly easily and trust me thats saying something lol so good job there.

I somewhat expected a "twist" ending to be honest. This one didnt have that but IMO thats a perfectly fine and valid approach as well.

Good job

Hey Janet.

Thank you very much for taking a read at this.

I'm glad that the 'not getting too into anything' worked for you.  Of course, I'm going to elaborate on all the situations when I approach the feature, but I was hoping that the realization that Ginger dreamt about the ants attacking Gabriella and the way Ginger conveyed it to her parents would be enough for just a short story.

I'm also glad you enjoyed the visuals.  I did bring focus to everbody's legs on purpose and just to add an element to the story.  The ditch in the yard, however, didn't have any water in it.

When my family lived in Texas, I was only Gabriella's age, (5) at the time.  (In fact, Gabriella's aspect of the story, with the pissants, was something that actually happened to me when I was little.  Except I was fine.  I wasn't allergic.  But it still didn't stop it from hurting like hell.)  But we did have a ditch surrounding our yard, and it would fill with a little water if it rained real hard, but that was very rare.  It was dry most of the time.  (There was also, in the corner of the yard where the ditch would go underneath the road, a bunch of stones where there was a rattlesnake pit.)

I wanted to play with Jillian's handicap more, especially since it was just a recent accident, (Ginger was also involved, which might have led to Ginger's vivid dreaming, I don't know yet), but I didn't want that to be the focus of this short story, so I do see where people are coming from when they talk about not enough characterization.

Quoted from wonkavite Create more debate about the decision to take Gabriella to the hospital.  If it's a foregone conclusion that she'll go anyway, then Ginger's visions aren't all that pivotal.

I got what you mean there.  Libby was mentioning about that, too.  I have to work on that.

Quoted from wonkavite they seemed more bothered by her walking, than actually talking!

That would be my fault.  One, because I cut out of that scene pretty early, so we don't see Greg's and Jillian's full reactions, and Two, because in the next scene, when Jillian's on the phone, I cut down her dialogue to keep it from dragging and I took out some of her shock at Ginger's speaking.  So I see what I did wrong there.

Quoted from wonkavite and LC, respectively I'm interested to see where you go with this one in the rewrite    ....    will definitely be keeping an eye out for that new draft, or bigger 'piece'

It might be a little while, as I plan on working 'Ginger' into a feature entitled 'Hallow'.  I'm just letting the story percolate a little right now and see what it develops into.

Right now, all I have is that a nun (years after her death) is being considered for canonization by the Catholic church.  During their inquisition of her life, they discover memoirs from her and discover her psychic premonitions are linked to visions of demons and how they were the key of how she's been able to save so many helpless individuals.  (It's labeled a horror, but I plan on writing it with a very strong sense of reality.  I want it to be more psychological than physical.)  'Ginger' is a little backstory (from when the nun was an infant) I wrote just to see if people are interested in it enough and see if it lights a fire under my ass to write a complete story for 'Hallow'.

As for right now, I have to say I do plan on working on it, but at least not for a couple of months.

But thank you very much, Janet, for taking a read and letting me know your opinion.  I appreciate it greatly.

- Mark

Hey Greg, what's up.

Just started following your food blog.  I figured since Americans aren't aloud to play poker now for a living and I have to get a REAL job, (I cook), I might as well start surrounding myself with more and more food.

Quoted from greg It felt like it lacked direction and a clear purpose.  Ginger has these weird things going on with her sleep, something is to be anticipated, and then her sister gets attacked by fire ants.  It just felt kind of incomplete for me

Yeah, I think a big part of that is because the story isn't whole itself.  I just kind of put this out there to see if it would attract enough attention that would light a fire under my ass to work on a feature (of which, 'Ginger' was a back story) I'm thinking about.

Quoted from greg I was also expecting the dog and the snake to play a part.  The fire ants in that sense were a surprise but I'm not sure they were the way to go.

This was an attempt to bring things from my real life and work them into the story.  What happened to Gabriella, is based on what actually happened to me when I was her age.

I used to always play in my front yard, (I always steered clear of the ditch where there was a dreaded rattlesnake pit.)  I used to love the dog that would come out across the street and one day, I was just standing there, intrigued by her for some reason.  All of a sudden, I just felt a horrendous burn and when I looked down, I had those fucking evil pissants all over me.  I just started screaming and my dad came out (thinking I had gotten bit by a snake, I later found out), scooped me up and threw me in the tub.  I wasn't allergic and didn't have to go to the hospital or anything, but I remember looking back in the tub and seeing all the ant wreckage floating in the water.  I just always thought that'd be cool to write about someday, so I threw it in here.

Quoted from greg And I'm kind of confused what happened at the very end with Jillian and Greg talking about Ginger.  What'd I miss?

There, I just wanted to show that Jillian and Greg (lol.  I just realized he has your name.) realized that whatever had happened to Ginger that night was prophetic, and that the little infant saw this coming and somehow managed to warn them.

Anyhow, I realize I still have miles and miles to go on this one, but thanks for checking it out and letting me know what you think.

And by the way, a buffalo burger with jalapeno jelly?  The buffalo and jalapeno part sounds awesome, but I don't like the texture of jelly, so I think that would put me off enjoying it.  I do love buffalo burgers, though.

- Mark

Tinkles??? Seriously? Sounds like your talking to your kids in your action prose. "Relieves herself" would work better IMO.

I Just thought this was okay, but it has potential. It would be a very tough film to make. I would almost rather see Ginger be developmentally slow. 3 or 4 and has never walked/talked until that night she foreshadows what is to come.

The first time she walks could be cut IMO. It didn't add anything to the story. Also, What she says has to offer the twist. They did what any parents would do, wash the ants off.

You need to focus on Ginger giving the parents the info to save Gabby. I rather see this turn out to be a bee sting in Gabby's throat. It swells to the point she cannot breathe. The night before, Ginger walks in their room with a straw and says "After you cut this, do this""" She mimicks cutting her throat and inserting a straw for an emrgency  tracheotomy that saves gabrielles life.

It could be a tense couple moments when the parents see that Gabrielle is not breathing and then they remember what Ginger said.

Hope this helps some. Let me know if you do a rewrite, I think its too weak as it sits...

James

Hey Hugh,

Thank you for taking a look at this one.  I'm glad you liked it.

Quoted from Hugh Hoyland Its a "fast" read (whatever that means)

Lol.  I wonder if the 'fast' read has anything to do with the sometimes sentence fragments that I've been starting to write with lately.  I'm trying to find new ways to make smoother reads, and I think the technique is kind of rubbing off on me.

That being said, I'm glad to see that you said you were able to picture the story pretty easily in your head.  It kinda shows to me that the technique could work.  Eventhough I'm using sentence fragments, I'm still getting the images across.  I'll take that compliment anyday.  :-)

Quoted from Hugh Hoyland I somewhat expected a "twist" ending to be honest. This one didnt have that but IMO thats a perfectly fine and valid approach as well.

Yeah, this was a more straightforward story.  I didn't want to get too fancy with it, since I might (not too sure yet) write the full feature I'm planning on and working this backstory into it somehow.

Thanks again for checking this out, Hugh.  I'll be checking out 'Wisp' very soon.  I think that's an interesting title.  I'll be looking for it in the next few days.

Hey James.

Quoted from jwent6688 You need to focus on Ginger giving the parents the info to save Gabby. I rather see this turn out to be a bee sting in Gabby's throat. It swells to the point she cannot breathe. The night before, Ginger walks in their room with a straw and says "After you cut this, do this""" She mimicks cutting her throat and inserting a straw for an emrgency  tracheotomy that saves gabrielles life.

Ahh!  You're an asshole!  Almost every story I've written now, you come up with a way to make it better.  I wrote it the way I did because it was something that actually happened to me when I was younger, but your way is a lot better.  Plus, your way would factor in the 'cringe' effect that you know I try and achieve with most of my stories.

Lol.  And yeah, I said 'tinkles'!  Are you kidding me?  This is the first story I've written in years where the infant doesn't die or get aborted.  I'm going to make it as cute as I can!

As for the rewrite to this, I don't know about that.  This is a backstory to a feature I might write in the future, so I'm not going to play around with it as a short for right now, but I am going to work this story (with your advice on the trache, if you don't mind) into the feature when that time comes.  I think I've gotten enough feedback now to say I probably WILL write the feature eventually.

Thanks once again, for the read and the great advice, James.

Hey Mark,

Took a gander at your story this morning.
I had peeked at some of the comments, so I knew this was a story fragment.
I like the opening grabber, don't see that one every day.
Though I felt the rest of it didn't quite gel enough to compliment the beginning.
I like the lazy hot Texas pace, been there, it rings true.
The adults didn't do much for me, but they weren't a distraction either.
It may be interesting if Jillian looks at Ginger's walking as a religious sign.
God is rewarding Ginger since her mother has to suffer in a chair.
Be a nice wedge between Greg's concern and mom's delusion.
It gives them a reaction conflict when the infant starts talking.

I was onto you right away about the prophecy part of your tale.
The snake mislead is unnecessary, set up the ants and knock them down.
It would give that scene much more oomph.
The deep manly voice for Ginger didn't work for me.
I think the prophecy would be even more creepy delivered in a baby's voice.
It feeds into mom's delusion of grandeur and amps the creepy factor.
Love to conclude with Ginger in her tweens preaching at a tent revival.
Even something as simple as that could put a decent bow on this script.

Good stuff, but it's a loose bag that needs to be knotted.

Hope this helps.
Best of luck on your new feature.

Regards,
E.D.

"Thanks again for checking this out, Hugh.  I'll be checking out 'Wisp' very soon.  I think that's an interesting title.  I'll be looking for it in the next few days."

You bet! Wisp is actually my very first completed screenplay ( My first, first is an unfinished Star Trek feauture of all things lol). And Im sure you'll notice my newness to the art lol. But please dont hold any punches, trust me I wont take it personal and I KNOW I have a lot to learn.

I'll have another short I submitted last week popping up soon as well.

I've read several of your scripts on here and I do like your style. I dont know if this is the right wording to describe it but they seem to have a "down to earth?" feel to  them. Even the more esoteric ones. But thats just the vibe I get and actually may not be where your coming from at all, but art is subjective right?

Either way IMO you can come up with solid stories.

I've been working my nerve up to read the "This may be difficult..." one lol. I'll get to it as well when time permits.

Keep up the good work.

Hey E.D.

Thanks for giving this one a read.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer It may be interesting if Jillian looks at Ginger's walking as a religious sign.  God is rewarding Ginger since her mother has to suffer in a chair.

Yeah, I plan on making religion much more of a factor (especially with the mother, like you mentioned) if I decide to do the feature for 'Hallow'.  (Or 'Hallowed'.  Not sure which I like better yet.)

Quoted from Electric Dreamer I was onto you right away about the prophecy part of your tale.  The snake mislead is unnecessary, set up the ants and knock them down.

I got you about the snake mislead.  The only reason I had it in there was because I explicitly remember my father saying after my whole situation with those bastard ants was that at first, he really thought it was a rattlesnake that got me and he was ready to suck the poison out.  My memory of everything that happened that day (about 26 years ago), is so vivid, and my father saying that sticks out so much, that I wanted to work the threat of the snakes into the story somehow.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer The deep manly voice for Ginger didn't work for me. I think the prophecy would be even more creepy delivered in a baby's voice.

You're probably right about that.  After my son was born, I had a dream about two months later that he was talking already, and his voice was deep and garbled and I had to listen close to what he was saying.  (I don't remember what he was saying in my dream anymore, unfortunately.)  I didn't mean for that to sound like a manly voice, though.  I should've described it as a raspy child's voice, maybe like laryngitis.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer Love to conclude with Ginger in her tweens preaching at a tent revival.

I'm very much going to consider that when I sit down for the feature.  It'll certainly make for an excellent visual.  Only problem is, though, is that I don't want her to come off as preachy at all and forcing her beliefs on anyone.  I want her actions and how she helps others to speak her religion for her, rather than her just stand in front of everybody and brag about her faith.  I don't know.  I really like the idea, but I'm going to have to be careful in how I approach it.


Thank you very much again, E.D., for taking a look and letting me know your thoughts.  It's always appreciated.

- Mark

Hey again, Hugh.

I'll check your new one out as soon as I see it pop up in the portal.

Thank you very much for the 'down to earth' compliment and that's exactly what I go for in my stories, even the more 'unnatural' ones.

I just know that for myself whenever I read a story, once my element of belief gets snapped, I lose interest immediately and I'll probably just peruse the rest of whatever I'm reading.  Or, even worse, I feel cheated at how the auther bullshitted himself out of a situation.  (Hence, that's why I don't delve too far into any supernatural elements.  It's not that it brings me out of my comfort zone, I just don't like stories that don't have common sense.)

And lol.  'A Few Will Find This Difficult', huh?  Enjoy.  :-)  I think that's the first romantic love story I've ever written.

Thanks again for the compliments, Hugh.

- Mark

Mark, I want to 2nd Brett's comment about Ginger's voice.  I didn't like that either, or maybe, it was the way you described it, but it came off as evil, like she's possessed, and that's where I figured we were going.

I also think, if little Ginger is going to speak, it needs to be something on a bigger scale, as ants on a kid's legs don't seem that big a deal to me, and her words really didn't help the situation at all.  maybe if she warned about some impending bad situation that gets averted because of her, it would be much more powerful.

hey Mark,

so A LOT has been said about this one already, so I'll try not to repeat everyone's comments. I'm not going to comment on character development either because you've already stated that this is part of a much larger piece of work. so naturally, i'm assuming that you will be developing all of your characters much further than what is shown in this short.

i really liked that jill was in a wheelchair. it adds so much more suspense to the story, especially when considering that there are kids in the picture (and kids often require immediate attention). sure its been done before, but i dont see the harm in employing the motif yet again. it works in this short and thats all that matters. furthermore, i loved the fire ants. its creepy, its painful, and i can just imagine myself cringing if i saw it on screen. you feel bad for the kid and even though fire ants are terrifying, they're not TOO over the top. in other words, the fire ants are appropriate and dont feel like a cheap ploy trying to illicit an immediate response.

every time i read a script, i try to imagine it on screen (as evident by my previous comments). therefore there were a few things that didnt work for me. mainly, the scene where ginger talks. i'm not saying that it can't be done, it just has to be dont REALLY tactfully. most directors out there would totally fuck up this scene and instead of ginger coming across as terrifying, it would seem just plain silly, thus destroying your audience's perception of her. this too, has been done before, and never once have i bought it. a small child with a grown up voice just seems bizarre, and not in the good way (instead it seems tacky). i would find some other way to write this in the script. does ginger need to talk at all? if so, what could she say that would make it seem fairly reasonable?

concerning the opening scene, i always found it really creepy how kids walk into their parents' room and just stand in front of them, staring right into their eyes. when their mom/dad turns on the light, they jump 5 fucking feet in the air because they didnt realize their kid was so close to them. might be something worth considering even though ive seen this done before (but not with a kid/sleeping parent).

enjoyable read for sure. i look forward to the full length script.

Hey Jeff and Will.

Yeah, Ginger's voice.  Something needs to be done about that.  I didn't mean for it to sound like an adult voice, just a deep, garbled, child-like voice.

It would be hard for that scene not to come off looking foolish.  I know I didn't get into it in this short version, but it actually was a demon (not necessarily an evil one) trying to communicate the warning of what was going to happen to Gabriella through Ginger.

Quoted from albinopenguin furthermore, i loved the fire ants. its creepy, its painful, and i can just imagine myself cringing if i saw it on screen.

Lol.  Ever since that happened to me when I was younger, I've despised those frigging things!  I'm so glad I don't live in Texas anymore.

What you said about seeing it on screen though did make me think of a question.  In order to film that, I'm sure real ants would be used and I'm sure they'd be harmed during the filming of it.  Would this story get any heat from the animal rights activists?  Would there be fines to pay?

Thanks again, Jeff, and thank you Will for taking a read and letting me know what you think.  I'll be seeing you guys around.

- Mark

Hey Mark,

What's up, man.  I read this one on my iPad this morning while I was still in bed.  I don't like to read scripts on the iPad, but I didn't have any trouble getting through "Ginger" so kudos.

Anyway, I see that you've received a bunch of feedback on this, but I haven't read all of the comments, so I hope I'm not being too repetitive.

As I mentioned, I enjoyed this one and thought you did a nice job of painting a creepy picture without having to go overboard.  I loved how you opened this one up with the first scene.  I think that set a nice, creepy tone for the entire piece.  I don't have any kids, and I don't really know anything about kids, so I was like, "A 7 month old can't walk, can she?"  Haha.  Well, the more I thought about it, the more creeped out I was.  Nice job.

Now, I did read that this was part of something bigger.  I think you should really consider tackling it, because I think it would be something that I would want to read.  That said, I found myself going back and forth with whether or not this worked as is (i.e. as a self contained short).   On the one hand, I think you get your premise across (***SPOILERS*** i.e. that Ginger has some powers whereby she can tal the future), but there were def some parts that seemed undeveloped.  For instance, Jillian's handicap immediately jumps out.  Again, I realize that this is something that you will explain in greater detail as part of the larger piece, but as it stands, I kept wondering how she got in the chair, and whether it was relevant.

Anyway, all in all, I def enjoyed this and think you are on to something.  Thanks for the read, and I hope this helps.

Craig

***EDIT*** For what it's worth, I liked the way you handled Ginger's voice when she was in her "trance".  I would keep it as is.  I thought it was creepy.

Holy crap.  I'm sorry, Craig.  This one slipped right down the 'portal' and I didn't even see that you had posted.  Sorry I'm a little late responding.

Thank you very much for the compliments.  I'm glad to hear that it creeped you out the more that you thought about it.  Lol.  I was actually sitting on the toilet (except I wasn't just tinkling, I was taking a full on shit) when my son, (he was only 10 or 11 months at the time), shoved the door open on me, and (as always, he loves his baths), he crawled straight to the bathtub and reached for the knobs.  I thought about how creepy it would be if he were just a little bit younger and had walked instead of crawled.

So that was my inspiration for starting this one, which led me to my own personal experience of being swarmed by fire ants, and woolah.  This was born.

I do plan on working it into a feature I'm going to be working on called 'Hallow'.  Though, that won't be for at least a year or so.  I have two features I want to write first and then I have another feature that needs some serious brushing up.  Thank you for telling me you think it would work in an expanded form, though.  That'll light a fire under my ass to get to work on it sooner.

Thank you again, Craig, for taking the read and your kind comments.

- Mark

I enjoyed this Mark. Your writing seems to flow very well. That said this definitely didn't have that Horror feel at all to me. Both the way it was written and in regard to the content, save the eerie moments involving Ginger that seemed to promise more scary moments in the future or climax if you will. Those hinted at promises didn't arrive and it left me a bit peeved.

Again though, like with Burnside you comprised a fast, straight-to-the-point read but the resolution of Ginger just didn't feel that rewarding or finite enough. I don't know. Maybe it's because it just didn't deliver on the Horror aspect for me. Taking that aside it's a cute little tale.

Oh, for everyone else that read... Am I the only one who thought Ginger walking so early was going to have something to do with her Mother being wheelchair bound?

-- Steve

Hey Steve.

Lol.  Quite a coincidence you should dig this one up.  I haven't touched this one in two years and just a couple days ago, I did a rewrite of it and brushed it up to send out to Shriekfest.

Anyway.  You're exactly right that the horror element is missing.  The new draft deals with that and takes care of that problem, I believe.  (I guess I'll find out when I see how it does in the competition.  :-)

And a couple other people have mentioned they thought Ginger walking so early was going to have something to do with her Mother's handicap.  I originally planned to expand this and deal with more of the issues brought up in the short, but it's well on the backburner for now.  If it garners any interest this year as a short, I might feel compelled to bring it to the forefront again.

But thank you very much and I appreciate your thoughts on this one.

Again, welcome to the site, and I can't wait to check something out from you when it's posted.

- Mark

No problem. It's funny how those little coincidences happen. Good luck with Shriekfest. When will you find out how it did?

PS. I'm about to post a short I did a few years ago for Uni. Not quite sure how to go about it though.

Just wanted to submit the updated version of the script to the site.

This is the draft that I submitted to Shriekfest this year and is in the Finals next month.

A big huge thanks to everybody who's read this one and given their insight, but a huge huge thank you to James Willams (Jwent).  One of his suggestions fixed what was lacking in the original script and really officially shoved this into the horror category.

Proof that gingers have no soul....

There was a lot of scary moments in this piece, which is nice.  The problem I had with it, though, is that you crammed everything into twelve pages.  I would strongly recommend that you expand on this story.  Build some suspense.

Make us feel that we are a part of this family.  Then make us feel useless that we can't help anyone.

Shriekfest, eh?


Phil

Congrats on making finalist, Mark. That's three SS scripts now. Has to be some kind of record. Plus, my short film. This draft reads the same to me. Is the new one live? Best of luck!

James

Congrats on making finalist, Mark! This is good company to be in.

Is the new draft live yet? A lot of the thoughts I had while reading this echo what most of the others have touched on already, so I wasn't sure.

Quoted from StevenHarvey No problem. It's funny how those little coincidences happen. Good luck with Shriekfest. When will you find out how it did?

The winners (for screenplays, films, songs, et all) will be announced at the film festival, the first week of October.


Phil

I'll first off like to say that this was a good story. I was really into it. I'm new to screen writing and don't know ALOT about it, other than scripts I've studied and reading.

The only fault I found in it was the fact that you used words like, IS, THEN, ARE, TRYING/STIll. ANDS or BUTS a little too much. I was told and read that several times, it makes the action too wordy.

But hey I'm new, what do I know lol :) Just trying to help. But other than that very good story.

Hey Phil, James, and Chris.

Congrats to all for making the Shriekfest cut this year, (and all four of us in a different category, so we're not even competing against each other!  Whew.)

The beginning is exactly the same, except I put a couple things in there to foreshadow Gabrielle going into an anaphylactic seizure, which is an idea that James brought up years ago.  (He mentioned how I write procedures really well.)  That element alone added the punch to the ending that was missing from the first draft posted here.  Before, I just had the parents wipe the ants off in the bathtub and it ended there.

I know you also recommended that I change it from ant bites to a bee sting, James, but I just couldn't.  I was really attacked by ginger ants when I lived in Texas when I was younger, and I had to keep those haunting images I still have of the ant wreckage in the bathtub.  (And yes, my attack was just like the one Gabrielle encountered in the story.  I was standing in the yard with the tennis ball, staring at the dog across the street.  I was mezmerized and didn't realize where I was standing until I felt the burning.)

I have full plans of expanding this into a feature, (and am well on my way idea-wise).  Hopefully, if this garners some attention from a capable company, I'll probably start it sooner rather than later.

Thanks again everybody for the congrats.  Hope we all win.

- Mark

Hey Robert.

First off, welcome to the site.

I'm glad you enjoyed the story.

Ah, the use of articles. (is, and, but...).  There was a big deal before about the use of articles and I actually attempted a writing style a couple years ago where I tried to cut out as many articles from my writing as I could, just to see if I liked it.  (E. Annie Proulx, who wrote the novel 'The Shipping News' and is a great writer if you've never checked her out, adapted a writing style like that and it works in her stories.)  I tried it, but everything just sounded too choppy when I read it back to myself and it wasn't my voice.  I never paid attention to the use of articles in this story, but I'll go back and see what I notice about them.

Thanks again for checking it out and letting me know your thoughts.  Have you submitted anything to the site yet?

- Mark

It's a bit late but...Congrats on being a Shriekfest finalist. :)

I remember reading this when you were rewriting it.

Hope everything else is good.

Gabe