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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  Short Scripts  /  Tricks, Lies and Backhanders
Posted by: Don, December 29th, 2011, 3:29pm
Tricks, Lies and Backhanders by Howard Jensen (colkurtz8) - Short, Drama, Comedy - In the bar: A wily hustler has a trick shot up his sleeve he wants to show a few punters…at a price. In the lounge: An adulterous husband is waiting to meet his wife. What's the connection? (14 pages) - pdf, format 8)
Posted by: TheSecond, December 29th, 2011, 4:23pm; Reply: 1
Nice piece of work here Howard.  Its not easy to keep track of all the people and their relationships to each other within the story though.  I think you can trim off at least 4-6 pages and still have the same effect.

Also, I don't think think the 'reveal' between Bob, Kathy, and Richie is necessary, as it kind of dilutes the poor choices that Derek makes to begin with.  

Overall, you have a great 8-10 page script hidden within the 14 pages you've written out.  Whittle it down and you'll get a whole lot more bang for your twenty quid...  ;)

Good job, high five.
Posted by: Andrew, December 29th, 2011, 4:28pm; Reply: 2
Long time, Col. Hope you're well.

You've perfectly captured the essence of a working class battle (Americans will need to consult rhyming slang here). Absolutely nailed it. I like how you bring these two parallel stories together. My only real complaint is that the link that glued the stories together seemed a little out of place. It felt almost a rushed addition in my eyes, which may of course not actually be the case. Up until Derek is punched by Kathy and comes to the pool table side, Bob has no stake in that story which is probably why his own deceit feels a little tagged on. Maybe if you have the girls allude to a 'helper' or a 'man on the inside' it'll more depth to that final reveal. That would just be a bit of sanding off though - I think you would be best to restructure that sequence more fundamentally.

The girls reacting so badly to being 'cheated on' is amusing and reminds me of the recent shenanigans with Ryan Giggs and his own triumvirate of lady friends. It's nicely written. I feel you could lose some pages though with the script to make it more attractive to be shot. This is very filmmable and could be very interesting in the right hands.

Nice work overall.
Posted by: CoopBazinga, December 30th, 2011, 12:56am; Reply: 3
Hey Howard,

This is some good writing IMO, I think some of your descriptions are fantastic. Only a couple of things I came across

Page 6 - "Derek looks around him warily"  should this be "her"?

Page 13" What happened you!?" should be "What happened to you!?"

There was a lot of characters and changing of scenes which did get confusing at times for me but overall this was a fantastic read. It reminded me a lot of Shameless and that made it all the better.

I think this could even be turned into a series about the two brothers, they have a lot of potential.

Good work!

Happy New Year.

Steve
Posted by: Forgive, December 30th, 2011, 5:45am; Reply: 4
Hi Howard - good work overall - got the feeling of a bit of a soap to it - Eastenders meets Shameless. I can see what people mean with the amount of characters - could probably easily drop Malcolm, Fred, and Jill - they were really only there as plot devices & superfluous. I get Andrew's point, but then there is the reference to Bob seeing Kathy and he a strange reaction - I guess this is the clue? But then if you're going to do that, I guess for the sake of consistency you need a link-in for Richie and Kathy?
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, December 31st, 2011, 12:10pm; Reply: 5
Hey Col!

Great to see a new submission from you.
Nice to have a chance to return the gesture on your work.
You were among the first reviewers I read here that really impressed me.
The depth and overall respect for the craft in your posts was evident.

LOL! The old "Three Go Down" trick!
http://billiards.about.com/od/easypropositionshots/ss/07_01threedown.htm

Reminds of of a story Mark Lyons wrote, called the Glim Dropper.
I wonder how familiar you are with grift tricks like these.

And I *deeply appreciate* the symbolism you're playing out here.
A "cheat" with black, red and blue balls on a pool table.
An infidelity triangle dons the same colors. Symbolism! I like it! ;D

And then you bring the distraction on the table into play, the cue ball.
Right on cue, Kathy appears in all white! Cheeky!
I really dig futzing around with symbolism like this in stories.

For me, the story kinda ends on top of page twelve.
The wrap up didn't add anything for me, only muted the vibe.

This kind of precision storytelling gets me creatively, "aroused". ;D

Very nice work.
A fitting final short to read for the year 2011!

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: bert, December 31st, 2011, 1:12pm; Reply: 6
In the first scene, it should be clear if it is Richie or Bob arranging the balls.  It is not.

Down-tempo should be hyphenated.

When I see someone using (MORE) for short stretches of dialogue, I always advise that you should just punch it down a few lines and keep everything together at the top of the next page.  It is smoother that way, and nobody is going to complain about, or even notice, a few blank lines at the bottom of the page.

I found the final twist a bit confusing.  I had to read through it twice, and once I understood it, I found it unnecessary and truthfully a bit strained.

I do like the hint of a relationship between Kathy and Richie, however, and think you should keep that as your final shot -- jettisoning that shoe-horn of a final twist and the long, expository dialogue from Kathy that reveals it.

For me, Kathy should move from the punch to Richie and then out the door as Derek watches it all. Maybe even grab a bit of cash for herself on the way out, from Richie, to firmly establish their familiarity. Perhaps even a peck on the cheek.
  
The symbolic clothing adds a nice level, and the "trick" has a payoff that is satisfactory enough -- overall a nice piece of work.  Trimming a page or so from the end is really all I would think it needs.
Posted by: Colkurtz8, January 4th, 2012, 12:32am; Reply: 7
First off, a special thank you to Don for putting this up.


TheSecond


I’ve gotten this note before regarding the four punters at the beginning and I see where you’re coming from. In my defence, I wanted more people in there to make the build up to the trick more unpredictable and dramatic. If it were Bob on his own or with one other person it would just have been a simple back and forth which didn’t interest me. I know that reading it the exchange seems unnecessarily cluttered with characters particularly for a 14 page script but on screen this would be a lot easier to digest and take in visually. Also from Richie’s perspective, the more suckers he gets on board the more he can sweeten the deal.

I get what you’re saying about the connection between Bob, Kathy and Richie but I wanted more of a link between both sides apart from the trick symbolising the girls scheme to teach Derek a lesson. An earlier draft concluded once the trick shot is pulled off and Kathy punches Derek but it felt unfinished, I felt it needed more twists to beef up the narrative.

You’re right that it sort of undermines Derek’s mistakes and Kathy seems just as devious but that was what I was trying to create here. This is a bar full of people backstabbing, doublecrossing, lying and cheating. Everyone does what they want to get ahead (or get off), the trick is to not get caught.

Thanks for the read.


Andrew


Hey man, what’s up, always good to get a read from you.

As I mentioned above to TheSecond, the initial draft ended after the shot so yeah, you’re right, Bob’s deceit was added later. I just wanted something to bring the two together, the only foreshadow I give is when he and Kathy make eye contact and he looks away worriedly. This was the hint for the reader that Bob has some influence on events unfolding out in the lounge. I liked the suggestion of the helper but I think a look is enough, especially on screen where it would be more noticeable but not obvious. Plus its Kathy who decides to spill the beans on Bob not Meg or Shelley so they wouldn’t have squealed on him presuming they are under instruction from Kathy.
This was the best way I could think of bringing them together, one brother selling out the other for a small fee, kind of summed up the inhabitants of this place. The final reveal that Kathy is carrying on herself with Richie was to further perpetuate the idea that nobody in this place was entirely innocent, each had their own secrets and committed wrongdoings.

The piece itself is basically a farce told through a bunch of amoral, unscrupulous, council estate dwelling proletariats during an average night down at the local boozer. Maybe that should have been the logline. ;)

Thanks for the read.


Steve (CoopBazinga)


“Page 6 - "Derek looks around him warily" should this be "her"?”

-- Perhaps I could change this to make it clearer. What I mean is that Derek is looking around himself, as in over his shoulders, not around  Megan or Shelley.

Page 13" What happened you!?" should be "What happened to you!?"

-- This is more a vernacular thing. If I was to say this sentence in real life I would, through force of habit (and laziness) drop the “to”. It’s correct English to include it but within that context but in I would rarely say it. The “happened” sort of flows straight into “you” if you know what I mean.

I touched upon the amount of characters above and why I chose to keep them all in there. The bottom line is that I think it would work fine on screen, it’s only on the page they may seem too abundant.

Thanks for the read.


SiColl007


Yeah, if anyone can go its Malcolm and Jill and perhaps one the guys who goes in with Bob but that would take away from the exchanges between Richie and his punters. I thought it added more flavour to the scene if there were multiple forces acting on Richie. You had some that were flat out not interested, others needed to be persuaded. When they back out he threatens to not show them the shot so in order to satisfy their curiosity and not damage their wallets too much they join forces. It was this dynamic that I wanted to create which would have been difficult without having the extra people to spice things up.

Glad you spotted the clue with the look Bob gives Kathy. I wondered was it too slight of a sign that Bob has some involvement in the parallel story.


E.D.


Great to hear from you too, Brett. I’m only getting back into writing the past couple of months since I’ve been travelling since January 2010. I hope to post more work in the coming year as I have a backlog of material that require a second opinion.

My biggest concern with the script was the trick itself. My Uncle showed me the shot years ago but I had never heard it from anyone else before or since. I’ve wasted many an hour inside the doors of public houses playing pool so I presumed it a relatively obscure trick. However, when I started showing this to people a few of them commented on their prior knowledge of the shot in question so I got a bit worried. Thankfully since those initial reads, I haven’t heard the complaint mentioned again…until now (insert emoticon) I wrote the trick shot scene years ago for a feature without the parallel story. When it got axed from said feature I always wanted to incorporate it into something else which was when the idea came to me. Because the shot mirrors the girl’s scheme so well I could never change it and left it as it is. The piece is more about that correlation anyway then the shot itself being well known.

I do remember reading The Glim Dropper a couple of years back. I also remember they’re being another short around the same time telling a very similar story. I wrote this over three years ago so it predates its posting on the site. I do like grafter stories when done properly, obviously “The Sting” being a prime example. “Confidence” is another decent film and ”The Grifters” with John Cusack.

I’ve addressed the tying up issue with the other reviewers so that tells me it may need some changing. I just couldn’t think of a better way to do it and ending it right after the shot and Kathy’s punch felt incomplete.

Glad you liked the symbolic element, its where the piece originally came from, that central parallel.

Thanks for the read.

Bert


It’s always an honour to get a read from a venerable moderator.

I guess I could clarify exactly whose setting up the shot. I thought introducing Richie first and saying Bob “stands at the other side of the table.” was enough for the reader to know whose where and what they’re doing.

Good call with the “down-tempo” hyphen.

From reading the opinions so far the general consensus is that the plot is needlessly convoluted in terms of too many characters during the betting scenes and the links between both stories at the end. Having Kathy walk out after conversing with Richie thus establishing their connection and leaving it at that could work, I just felt it wasn’t enough. I wanted to layer upon layer the doublecrosses and backstabbing to an almost ridiculous level as I was trying in essence to write a farcical type comedy, perhaps I got carried away and ended up overreaching, thereby straining/forcing the narrative.

Thanks for the read.




If anybody wants a return read, PM me and I’ll get back to you asap.

Thanks again.

Col.
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, January 4th, 2012, 10:34am; Reply: 8

Quoted from Colkurtz8

E.D.

Great to hear from you too, Brett. I’m only getting back into writing the past couple of months since I’ve been travelling since January 2010. I hope to post more work in the coming year as I have a backlog of material that require a second opinion.

Hey Col!

One year walkabout, I love it!
Most I've done is three months, but I've got time to beat that. ;D
I volunteer myself to offer that second opinion. Anytime, pal.

Quoted from Colkurtz8

My biggest concern with the script was the trick itself. My Uncle showed me the shot years ago but I had never heard it from anyone else before or since. I’ve wasted many an hour inside the doors of public houses playing pool so I presumed it a relatively obscure trick. However, when I started showing this to people a few of them commented on their prior knowledge of the shot in question so I got a bit worried.

I recall the trick as more of an urban legend than anything else.
Drunken stories passed down as first person tales in dark rooms.
That triggers a vibrant riff for me to ride throughout your tale.
So, that familiarity was a strong positive note for this reader.

Quoted from Colkurtz8

I do remember reading The Glim Dropper a couple of years back. I also remember they’re being another short around the same time telling a very similar story. I wrote this over three years ago so it predates its posting on the site. I do like grafter stories when done properly, obviously “The Sting” being a prime example. “Confidence” is another decent film and ”The Grifters” with John Cusack.

Add David Mamet's, "House of Games" to that list and you've got my fave trifecta.




Quoted from Colkurtz8

I’ve addressed the tying up issue with the other reviewers so that tells me it may need some changing. I just couldn’t think of a better way to do it and ending it right after the shot and Kathy’s punch felt incomplete.

I think I would prefer the incomplete sting of the trick.
It ties me, as the reader, to the cheater's fate.
When you're set up for a fall, it's how you're supposed to feel, IMO.
There's a graceful exit to this story and I'm sure you'll discover it.

Quoted from Colkurtz8

Glad you liked the symbolic element, its where the piece originally came from, that central parallel.

Thanks for the read.

That synergy really drew me into your story.
As you can probably surmise after reading West Side Markets, that appeals to me.
That story is near and dear to my overly romanticized notions of young love and rage.
Much like you here, that story started out 25 years ago with a simple image.
In my neighborhood, two such shops existed.
Late one night, I rode my BMX bike through their territory.
My mind's eye saw the parking lot filled with warring baggers and butchers.
A secret world only those two families knew about.
Sharing a secret world is the best way to entice me to read.
So, I book ended that with the WSS dynamic and intermingled the beats.

Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Reef Dreamer, January 10th, 2012, 5:13pm; Reply: 9
Hello Col,

I'm a bit new around here so we haven't really crossed paths, but it didn't take me long to realise this is someone who can write. Good stuff.

A few notes.

I liked your use of descriptions, not over done, but crisp. We got the message.
Yeah, lots of folk, probably too many. Maybe the old, "a crowd gathers", trick maybe useful in part to raise tension without remembering who the hell they are.
The pool trick. You know what, i don't know many but i did know that one BUT it didn't make any difference because i was wondering [1] am i right [2] will it be clear and how this plays out- so still works.
I liked the balance, the running combination of scenes - good tempo. Then the tempo rises, again a good feel.
The story being played out in two rooms at the same venue - good choice. i can imagine that makes more appealing.
Ok the double, triple climax, whatever the number is.  I think this is a bit much, as someone above says, its like Eastenders, and  Eastenders is not my thing. The brother thing seems worth ditching, it needed a long explanation and ended in an off scene fight. You already have so much good work here it is a shame to divert the attention.

To me the best final visual would be the realisation that the wife has been at it all the time. The trickster on the table and the trickster wife, both playing a game. But for this to strike home, to me, it has to be the discret final shot that nails this. I think it is close its just the fog thats before which may reduce the impact.

Just thoughts.

Sound work.

Posted by: jwent6688, January 10th, 2012, 7:36pm; Reply: 10
Howard,

Good to see you on the boards. Fine short here. Nicely written. The characters were thrown at us pretty quick, gotta stay on your feet to keep track of them. I have no problems with this. I know it works much easier on film.

I like the usage of daul story lines here. The cheat at the table, the cheat at the bar. I almost would've liked a way you could show them both lose.

I liked the girls getting together to destroy Derek and how they caught him. I would've liked a bit more of an unlikeable character for Rob throughout the story. As it is, we don't find out what a douche bag he is until the very end.

I think the very last twist with Richie and Derek's wife cheating might be a bit too reaching. As derek said, he never brought his "other" gals to this pub because they hang out there. I wouldn't think she would bring her "Other" man there either. It was still humorous though.

Overall, solid short. I liked it and could see it filmed with a pretty low budget..

James
Posted by: Colkurtz8, January 12th, 2012, 7:19am; Reply: 11
Bill

Thanks for the comment and notes, much appreciated. Even though I get what you're saying about Eastenders, it saddens me, I have an aversion to soaps, they’re most definitely not my thing either. The script undoubtedly has that flavour to it though but I think it's primarily due to the prevailing demographic of the characters...that's what I'd like to believe anyway. :-/

The “crowd gathers” is a good idea to simplify the trick shot scene. I wanted to create a bit of banter between the cluster of people though, have a few more voices/opinions/influences thrown into the mix besides Richie and Bob.

Great to hear that prior knowledge of the shot doesn’t detract from the overall effect.

I’ve taken on board what you’ve said about the over complicated ending as others have alluded to it as well. All will be considered in the rewrite.

Thanks again for the read.


James

Nice to hear from you too, man…even better to hear someone who understands that the group of characters mulling over the bet would not be a problem on screen, if anything, it would make things more interesting.

There is so much criss-crossing and cheating going on here that it would be impossible for everyone to lose although no one is innocent, they all have secrets, they all have sinned to varying degrees. Out of the rabble, I think Richie is the least unlikable, he’s hustling a few quid with the cheeky trick shot while banging a woman a couple of decades younger than him, congrats to the guy! It nice to see the experienced out manoeuvre the youth from time to time.

I felt Kathy has suffered the most prior to the script’s events so this is her time to strike back.

Finding out at the end that Bob was as scheming as the rest of them was intended as part of the finale. He comes across as stupid but harmless, a victim of Richie’s cunning…until we find out his part in the proceedings going on in the lounge.

It’s funny that you had a problem with Kathy and Richie’s affair as most of the others have suggested keeping it as the final shot and throwing out Bob’s conniving. To answer your question about Kathy bringing Richie to the bar; I tried to convey that Richie was a local there just like the brothers Derek and Bob and the trick shot crowd so he would always be around anyway, a “part of the furniture” type customer. I thought the familiar rapport in the trick shots scenes would reflect this, also goes some way to justifying his amiable arrangement with the barmaid. The only non locals are Shelley and Meg.

Thanks again for the read, James. Let me know if you’ve got anything you want me to look at, I’ll gladly return the favour.

Col.
Posted by: Rkwok, January 12th, 2012, 12:48pm; Reply: 12
Howard,

Nice work. Great dual structure and the climax with the intercutting is very effective. I really didnt think you needed to continue after the trick was finished. I felt the last part was a bit labored. You didn't need a reveal to tie it together.
Posted by: Colkurtz8, January 13th, 2012, 8:16pm; Reply: 13
Rkwok

Thanks for the read. Ya, you've echoed what others have said. I just wanted something more then the visual parallel between Kathy's scheme and Richie's trick shot so I developed Bob's brotherly link with Derek, his blackmailing of Kathy and Richie's affair with Kathy. It seems I've overcooked it according to most readers.

Thanks again

Col.
Posted by: Reef Dreamer, January 14th, 2012, 10:06am; Reply: 14

Quoted from Colkurtz8
Bill

. Even though I get what you're saying about Eastenders, it saddens me, I have an aversion to soaps, they’re most definitely not my thing either. The script undoubtedly has that flavour to it though but I think it's primarily due to the prevailing demographic of the characters...that's what I'd like to believe anyway. .


Col

just spotted this. Like yourself i have a personal aversion to this type of product. The reference i made was partially because of the demographic, but mainly it was due to the constant conflict and prolific lies that are exposed. The angry confrontation being a classic scene.

Whenever i happen to watch an Eastenders  episode it seems to be that the place is in constant conflict, everybody has a secret and you KNOW that it will get out. Your script is more subtle than that but if the end could reinforce the subtle twist it would help it differentiate itself.
Posted by: Heretic, February 1st, 2012, 1:02pm; Reply: 15

Quoted from bert
I found the final twist a bit confusing.  I had to read through it twice, and once I understood it, I found it unnecessary and truthfully a bit strained.

I do like the hint of a relationship between Kathy and Richie, however, and think you should keep that as your final shot -- jettisoning that shoe-horn of a final twist and the long, expository dialogue from Kathy that reveals it.


Second this.

I really enjoyed this one Col and it's definitely one of the most filmable shorts I've read of late.  It has a great attitude and a real sense of depicting a whole world which is very attractive.  I do think that it totally falls apart with the final twist.  The point of the story, I think, will become more effective when it's made in a slightly more reserved fashion.  I also think that you have such a natural climax in the trick finally being performed/the wife finally showing up that the final gag kinda feels like an aftershock when we should already be in denouement.  It's the quick, snappy pace and the lack of moments for the audience to catch their breaths that makes the story successful as it leads up towards the trick.  Then, after you give 'em the trick, they can relax and think -- their thinking guided by the Kathy/Richie twist -- but they don't have to deal with a whole new idea.  

I wouldn't reduce the number of characters at all; I think it's necessary for this short to be "full," both of characters and of action, in order to succeed in setting the aforementioned pace that you do.

I really enjoyed this one.  Thanks.
Posted by: _ghostwriters, February 2nd, 2012, 1:32am; Reply: 16
Hey, Col.

Very nice read, intercutting between scenes and all the characters isn't easy to do.  But I was able to follow.  Clearly a lot of thought went into this piece.  The visuals were spot on, but I enjoyed the dialogue most of all.  But Richie, was one of those guys, you either love or hate him.   And I have to admit, i liked him, a lot.  I think it ran just a little bit too long, but I enjoyed it nevertheless.

Fun read, no need to comment on the writing, you're one of the best.  I know you haven't been around for awhile, but I hope this one gets more reads.

Ghostie
Posted by: Colkurtz8, February 5th, 2012, 3:59am; Reply: 17
Chris

Thanks for taking a look, I appreciate the comments. You echo what others have said, it’s all taken on board. I'm glad you don't think a reduction in characters is necessary, it may come as a surprise but I completely agree! ;)

I had some interest from a filmmaker but she seems to have dropped off the map, why does this keep happening to me!? :'(

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time.


Ghostie

Delighted you liked this. I thought the conventional prose would bore you after the seeing the frantic, visceral way you lay out yours. Which, if you remember, I really admired, it just probably needs a bit of tweaking for purposes of clarity.

Ya, I'm trying to become more involved again, I'll be posting another short soon.

Thanks for taking the time.

Cheers

Col.
Posted by: kingcooky555, May 21st, 2012, 10:42am; Reply: 18
Very well done. I liked how the trick shot is tied to the the love triangle (quandrangle?) between Meg, shelley, Kathy and Derek.

Lots of characters and I had to slow down my read to remember who's who. It's fine as is but if you ever need to cut the pages - as some producers are very specific with page counts - you can probably end this when Derek gets hit with the punch.

The intercutting between the trick shot and the punch was great.

Good job!
Posted by: Colkurtz8, May 22nd, 2012, 4:40am; Reply: 19
Cooky

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Yeah, a lot of other have expressed a similar opinion about ending it after Derek gets the punch and while I see where ye're all coming from I always wanted more of a link between the two stories besides the trick shot parallel as I didn't like the idea of the entire script hinging on what is essentially a gimmick.

You're right though about producers, they do care a lot about page counts, basically the lesser the better.

Thanks again for your comments.

Col.
Posted by: alffy, May 23rd, 2012, 3:20pm; Reply: 20
Hey, Col.

I enjoyed this very much, a real sense of the 'pub'.  I love a bit of 'sharking' and I've seen this trick done too.

I did find the amount of characters a little confusing but I think that's always the case when reading but would be much easier on screen.

I like the two different stories intertwining at the end too.  My only 'slight' concern is the length but again I feel this would be much quicker on film than paper.

Overall I enjoyed this, nice work.
Posted by: Colkurtz8, May 24th, 2012, 6:06am; Reply: 21
Alffy

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I'm thrilled it worked for you. Yeah, I think on the screen the amount of characters wouldn't be a problem, most only get a couple of lines but still serve a function. It's not like we got to remember all their names or their motives for some pay off down the line. They are just there to beef up the wager and provide a bit of banter.

Thanks again.

Col.
Posted by: KevinLenihan, July 10th, 2013, 8:22am; Reply: 22
Hey Colonel,


Was unaware of this short. Glad to find it.

the good

The dialogue was very effective. On rare occasions the dialogue in a script is so smooth it actually has a hypnotic effect on me. This was one of those times.

The technique of building suspense with the two story lines running along side each other was text book. Even though I knew how the billiard ball trick worked, it still built suspense as I wondered if something would go wrong. Breaking up the POV was great technique and shows how suspense can be built even with something as simple as a pool table trick.

The correlation between the colors and actions of the billiard balls with the characters in the story was cool.

the bad

Only thing I had a problem with was the ending and the arrangement between Bob and Kathy. I actually read it a few times to make sure I wasn't missing something. I think it's very clever, correlating Bob with the waitress as silent collaborators, which completes the mirror images of the story, as Kathy correlates with Ritchie(and perhaps more than correlates). I just think it might fall flat in terms of its being moving.

So everything is spot on until the very end. Maybe the ending could be adjusted somehow to leave a more satisfying impression.

the ugly

Kathy, of course!

Overall, another fine display of craftsmanship and intricate plotting.
Posted by: Colkurtz8, July 11th, 2013, 2:55am; Reply: 23
Kevin

Thanks for checking this out, Kev, perceptive comments as per usual.

The bet is a well known one alright and I feared that most people would fixate on that when its only a part of what's going on. Thankfully most have rightfully taken it as an illustrative device and not got too hung up on it. It was too apt a parallel to pass up!

Yeah, some have mentioned, most to be honest, that the end doesn't work and that's cool, I can be stubborn when I want to be and do still hold stock in it. Like any script it can do with tinkering but the suggestion by most detractors to end right after the balls/fist-face collision doesn't really interest me.

I always wanted more links between both scenes outside of the trick shot simply correlating with Derek's undoing. It intended to be more of a farce; people bribing people who are being cheated on while cheating themselves. I liked the idea of Bob selling out his brother for a measly 20 bucks and blowing it on a bet. The final twist of Kathy and Richie was just thrown in at the end to add to the mix of soap opera-ish shenanigans, nothing too serious ;)

Thanks again for taking the time, man.

Col.
Posted by: KevinLenihan, July 11th, 2013, 6:56am; Reply: 24
I don't suggest stopping at page 12. It would be kind of pointless without the ending. I guess what I would suggest is to maybe play with more or less the same ending until it works a bit better. Sometimes it's a very tiny adjustment, one missing element, that really makes things work better. I really wish I had a more specific suggestion. I have the feeling it's something enormously simple.

Yeah, I know the pool trick was a device, but this really taught me something about technique. I was surprised at how effective that was at holding my attention. I know the trick as I've spent my life in bars, but I found myself waiting to see how it played out. What really added to the effect was the way it was spread out by mixing in the other scene at the bar. And of course we suspect that the two scenes will eventually linked in someone, so that fueled anticipation too.
Posted by: Colkurtz8, July 12th, 2013, 6:38pm; Reply: 25
Kevin

Yeah, I may go back to this at some point in the future.

Thanks again for your thoughtful and kind remarks.

Col.
Posted by: Mr.Z, July 7th, 2015, 4:39pm; Reply: 26
Hi Howard,

Good stuff my man, I liked it. I dug how you moved back and forth between both storylines and the mini-cliffhangers before each cut. Having the women dress in the same color as the balls was a great visual parallel.

Some cool descriptions as well, like “a man who enjoyed his youth a little too much” and “Working class would generously sum up this place and its clientele.”

My only grip is that the last twist (Bob’s deal with Kathy) was a twist too many. I think the plot works pretty well as it is and there’s sufficient connective tissue between both storylines. Would be better to end with a bang than use Kathy to explain a new plot development (IMO).

Also (but it’s an easy fix) there were too many character names to keep track of. Maybe you shouldn’t give a name to all the secondary characters and go with “FAT PUNTER, TALL PUNTER”, etc.

Still, pretty good job. Well done!
Posted by: Colkurtz8, July 11th, 2015, 9:26pm; Reply: 27
Matias

Thanks for the read, man.


Quoted from Mr.Z
My only grip is that the last twist (Bob’s deal with Kathy) was a twist too many. I think the plot works pretty well as it is and there’s sufficient connective tissue between both storylines. Would be better to end with a bang than use Kathy to explain a new plot development (IMO).


Yeah, others have said this. I just felt their wasn't enough in having the trick shot mirror Derek's take down by the three girls. That to me would feel a bit gimmicky, like I thought of this neat parallel and just left it that, there is not much of story there I reckon. I wanted something overarching to tie them together and add an extra double-cross to proceedings. I hoped it would give it a more farcical, can't-trust-no-one-in-the-place, everyone-out-to-screw-the-other vibe. That not only are husbands cheating on their wives but wives are cheating on their husbands and siblings are fu?king each other over for a couple of quid too. Your point it taken all the same though.


Quoted from Mr.Z
Also (but it’s an easy fix) there were too many character names to keep track of. Maybe you shouldn’t give a name to all the secondary characters and go with “FAT PUNTER, TALL PUNTER”, etc.


Yeah, I could just give them physical monikers to help distinguish them for the reader. I did have that specific number of characters in there for a reason though, they all play a part. Plus, on screen it wouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for checking this out, Matias, I appreciate you taking the time. Glad you go some kicks out of it anyway.

Col.
Posted by: StevenClark, September 12th, 2015, 5:09pm; Reply: 28
Col,

Finally got around to this. And I should note, as you did to me, that the version I read is on your signature. Correct?

Oh, that sent items folder!

Consider losing some of those ellipses? Didn't think so! Not that they're particularly annoying, but maybe just one too many, especially early on. No explanation needed, I remember you telling me why you use them.

Nicely done, Col. I appreciate the set-ups of your stories a lot. There's always much more going on than what meets the eye in your work.

Once you stated remarking on the colors the girls were wearing I knew something was going on. When Shelley arrived I got it.

Also, good job with character descriptions here, especially Richie and Bob. You give us a foreshadowing of Richie with his weasel-ish appearance -- and I just thought it was his sneaky pool trick you were alluding to, never mind the end twst!

Bob's character stood out as soon as you mentioned track suit and I immediately saw a navy blue Addidas with a white stripe going down the leg, wearing white sneakers. Know the type, perfect for a pool room.

The best thing about this is I can see it all playing out in my head, which isn't something I can do with every script I read. But for all that is going on here you made it very clear exactly what it is I'm reading/watching. And with an excellent final page twist, too.

Very well written, Col. Enjoyed this.

Steve
Posted by: Colkurtz8, September 20th, 2015, 4:35am; Reply: 29
Steven

Thanks for the checking this out.


Quoted from StevenClark
Finally got around to this. And I should note, as you did to me, that the version I read is on your signature. Correct?


Yup, that's the latest draft through Dropbox. The link at the top of this discussion board is the draft I originally posted the traditional way through the site.


Quoted from StevenClark
Oh, that sent items folder!


I know, that pesky folder has been catching out cheating spouses since their introduction to mobile devices circa mid noughties!


Quoted from StevenClark
Consider losing some of those ellipses? Didn't think so! Not that they're particularly annoying, but maybe just one too many, especially early on. No explanation needed, I remember you telling me why you use them.


Noted. Too much of (almost) anything is not a god thing.


Quoted from StevenClark
Nicely done, Col. I appreciate the set-ups of your stories a lot. There's always much more going on than what meets the eye in your work.

Once you stated remarking on the colors the girls were wearing I knew something was going on. When Shelley arrived I got it.


- Thank you. Yeah I hoped the realisation of what's going on in terms of the parallels would gradually reveal itself when you noticed the attention being paid to what the lounge characters were wearing.


Quoted from StevenClark
Also, good job with character descriptions here, especially Richie and Bob. You give us a foreshadowing of Richie with his weasel-ish appearance -- and I just thought it was his sneaky pool trick you were alluding to, never mind the end twst!


Cool. Being honest I don’t normally spend too much time mulling over character description and try to keep them to no more than two lines, sometimes just a few adjectives.


Quoted from StevenClark
Bob's character stood out as soon as you mentioned track suit and I immediately saw a navy blue Addidas with a white stripe going down the leg, wearing white sneakers. Know the type, perfect for a pool room.


Ha, yeah, you nailed it. I think we can all recognize the type of clientele who frequents this type of establishment…without sounding too prejudice ;)


Quoted from StevenClark
The best thing about this is I can see it all playing out in my head, which isn't something I can do with every script I read. But for all that is going on here you made it very clear exactly what it is I'm reading/watching. And with an excellent final page twist, too.


That’s the best compliment I could get, thank you. As you say, there is a lot of switching back and forth and a lot of characters to contend with so I understand that some feel it’s a bit cluttered on the page. This wouldn't be so much a problem on screen though.

Thanks for the taking the time, Steven, glad you enjoyed it.

Col.
Posted by: StevenClark, September 20th, 2015, 2:24pm; Reply: 30
Yeah, I know someone else commented that this felt a little too busy, with too many twists going on. But just the title of the script alludes to that, and I didn't think it overly so. Like you said, I think it would play out extremely well on screen.

Steve
Posted by: Colkurtz8, September 22nd, 2015, 6:54am; Reply: 31

Quoted from StevenClark
Yeah, I know someone else commented that this felt a little too busy, with too many twists going on. But just the title of the script alludes to that, and I didn't think it overly so. Like you said, I think it would play out extremely well on screen.


Yeah, that has been the main criticism from others and as they say, if multiple people take issue with the same thing then it needs changing. I guess I'm just stubborn because I've always felt that an extra twist(s) were required on top of just paralleling both scenes which a lot of people think is enough.

That's too slight and simplistic in my opinion, hinging it purely on that somewhat gimmicky device. Its meant to be farcical and convoluted, like a mini whodunit chamber piece in which everybody is double crossing/betraying/working an angle, etc on someone else.

Anyway, thanks for the encouraging words

Regards

Col.
Posted by: Warren, April 20th, 2018, 11:27pm; Reply: 32
Hi Col,

I didn't read any of the comments so I apolgise if I rehash something.

I like the Oxford comma, and think one should go in your title. Not a big deal at all.

I'm not personally a fan of capping objects, mainly because of how it looks in the action blocks, and I feel it adds little value to the final produced film. I also find it tends to mess with the flow of the read a bit. I will generally do it only for sound effects and character introductions.

The script is absolutely litered with ellipses. I feel almost every one should be replaced with either a period or comma in the action blocks. I personally use them sparcely and when I do it's for one of their intended purposes; to show trailing thoughs or hesitation in dialogue. I'm not sure what their intended purpose is in your action blocks. It may very well be a stylistic choice you've decided on, but I think it would read much better if they were taken out.

I don't think SAME and CONTINUOUS are particullaly nessesary, if you gave us the mini slug and didn't put same, how would we know this is the case visually on screen anyway? The same goes for continuos. We automatically assume the scene after continues on from the other scene. I think it only becomes nessesary to explain what it happing with the time frame if it is something out of the ordinary or if it wont be abundantly clear in the writing. I don't believe that's the case here. The viewer wouldn't see the words same or continuos so it would make no difference. It will be filmed in the order you write it.

Just at the top of page two and we already have 8 named characters, I'm hoping it doesn't become too confusing. I find the more people I intro the harder I make it for myself to give them all an individual voice. Will see how we go though.

Personally I would turn the character CONT'D's off in your software. They aren't required.

Okay, just gone up to 9 characters and I'm still on page 2.

All your slugs thus far have been bolded, but the one at the top of page 3 isn't. Probably just missed it, but if it was by choice I'd definitely recommend staying consistant.

Another unbolded slug on page 3.

I would definitely recommend having a read on the usage of ellises in general and in screenplays.


Quoted Text
Meg  picks  up  a  BEER  MAT,  picks  off  pieces,  all  very

  casual.



I can't picture what youre going for here.


Quoted Text
“healthy”


If you have a particular look in mind, I would describe that. What you, me, or the filmmaker thinks constitutes a healthy build may be completely different.


Quoted Text
STEPHANIE  

You’re  like  the  eighth  person  he’s  

caught  with  that  this  week.  That’s  

why  he  has  that  sort  of  cash  on  

him...If  it’s  any  consolation.  

BOB  

Not  really...And  I  see  you  were  

bustin’  your  ass  to  try  and  warn  us  

an  all,  thanks.  

STEPHANIE  

He  gives  me  a  cut  to  keep  my  mouth  

shut.  



This section of dialogue is quite OTN. The same with Kathy's litte monologue.

I feel like this should have ended shortly after the intercut and, I felt like I got lost on the details after it.

The writing for the most part is really good, other than the things I already mentioned, but again a lot of it might be stylistic choices or personal preference type stuff.

The story was well told and built to a slightly unbelievable, yet still satisfying climax. Well done for that.

Then there is everything that happens after the intercut which I personally think can go as it doesn't add a whole lot to the story you've already told. Okay maybe the fact that it doesn't add something isn't quite right. I should probably say that it doesn't add anything that adds to the story in a positive or entertaining way. Others may disagree.

I'd be lying if I said I could distinguish some of the characters from the others but on screen this wouldn't be an issue.

It's definitely an enjoyable read.

Very well done.
Posted by: Colkurtz8, April 24th, 2018, 8:12am; Reply: 33
Warren

Thanks for taking the time to check this out, much appreciated.


Quoted from Warren
I didn't read any of the comments so I apolgise if I rehash something.


- I always read blind too, it’s the purest way so no problem if you repeat stuff.


Quoted from Warren
I'm not personally a fan of capping objects, mainly because of how it looks in the action blocks, and I feel it adds little value to the final produced film. I also find it tends to mess with the flow of the read a bit. I will generally do it only for sound effects and character introductions.


- Yeah, it’s a style thing, I used to only capitalise character intros and sounds as well but when I seen it used in other scripts to emphasise key objects within a given frame, or things a character is interacting with it made sense so I adopted it to my own writing. If used right, I find it helps quicken the read, as you can get an idea of what is happening visually at a glance. I’m generally more concerned about the practicality of technique than the aesthetics of it. This applies to my use of ellipses, CONT’D and bolded slugline as well. I don’t expect it to add value to the final produced film, it’s solely got to do with the reading experience. I appreciate as well though that it won’t work for some.


Quoted from Warren
The script is absolutely litered with ellipses. I feel almost every one should be replaced with either a period or comma in the action blocks. I personally use them sparcely and when I do it's for one of their intended purposes; to show trailing thoughs or hesitation in dialogue. I'm not sure what their intended purpose is in your action blocks. It may very well be a stylistic choice you've decided on, but I think it would read much better if they were taken out.


- I use them to illustrate phrasing in the dialogue, how a line is delivered, and to convey the flow of action in the prose. Also, in prose, I use them to separate actions without having to go to a new line. Again, it’s a style thing. I’ve seen it used a lot in scripts and liked it so started doing it myself. This is the approach I take to all rules. If they make sense to me, I use them, if not I don’t.


Quoted from Warren
I don't think SAME and CONTINUOUS are particullaly nessesary, if you gave us the mini slug and didn't put same, how would we know this is the case visually on screen anyway? The same goes for continuos. We automatically assume the scene after continues on from the other scene. I think it only becomes nessesary to explain what it happing with the time frame if it is something out of the ordinary or if it wont be abundantly clear in the writing. I don't believe that's the case here. The viewer wouldn't see the words same or continuos so it would make no difference. It will be filmed in the order you write it.


- Yeah, this is another debateable point. Some people just have DAY or NIGHT, I want to be specific. Sure, it won’t matter onscreen but again, it’s for the reader, so they know exactly where they are. It’s more information so I don’t see the harm. I like to have timelines precisely worked out and clearly defined.


Quoted from Warren
Just at the top of page two and we already have 8 named characters, I'm hoping it doesn't become too confusing. I find the more people I intro the harder I make it for myself to give them all an individual voice. Will see how we go though.


- That’s a legitimate concern but hopefully you would’ve learned why I had so many characters. Richie needs a few punters to make the bet worthwhile while Derek needs to have three woman on the go to mirror the trick shot. Also, on screen I don’t think it would be a problem.


Quoted from Warren
Personally I would turn the character CONT'D's off in your software. They aren't required.


- I’ve always used them and don’t see the problem . Whether it’s a scene with two characters or many they are a quick indicator that someone has continued talking. I miss them in other scripts when they’re not used but I understand they have become passé. I’m waiting for them to become fashionable again ;)


Quoted from Warren
  All your slugs thus far have been bolded, but the one at the top of page 3 isn't. Probably just missed it, but if it was by choice I'd definitely recommend staying consistant.  
Another unbolded slug on page 3.


- Good catch, nice one. Yep, consistency is important, I just missed those.


Quoted from Warren
  I can't picture what youre going for here.


- It's like when someone busies their hands in an absent minded or casual way, such as twiddling your thumbs or picking your nails. Here, Meg uses a beer mat. She is doing it to give the impression she’s calm and collected while telling Derek how she’s caught him playing around. I liked that contrasting juxtaposition of a relaxed demeanour with biting words. Of course, her ripping up of the beer mat, even though its done casually, can be seen as foreshadowing what's in store of Derek.


Quoted from Warren
  If you have a particular look in mind, I would describe that. What you, me, or the filmmaker thinks constitutes a healthy build may be completely different.


- True, I could be more specific here. Where I’m from it would be shorthand for plump or well fed. The inverted commas were to suggest its euphemistic connotations. I’ll add something for clarity.


Quoted from Warren
  This section of dialogue is quite OTN. The same with Kathy's litte monologue.


- I don’t agree with the quoted part but each to their own. In regards Kathy’s monologue, it was intentionally flowery and righteous. I imagined she has been thinking about it for a while, working out exactly what’s she’s going to say and relishes it when given the chance.


Quoted from Warren
  I feel like this should have ended shortly after the intercut and, I felt like I got lost on the details after it.


- Yeah, some others have said this and my original version did just that but I felt it needed more to connect the parallel stories together. If I end right after the intercut it all feels a little gimmicky. Just a smart ass idea of matching the trick shot with the cheating Derek.

Post intercut, I wanted an over the top, almost farcical layering of double-crossings and deceptions to give it more dimension and humour. Derek cheats on the women, Richie cheats the group out of money, the bartender took money to keep quiet, so did Bob and Richie is carrying on with Kathy behind it all. It’s completely ridiculous and over the top but in keeping with the tone of the piece I think.

Quoted from Warren
  The story was well told and built to a slightly unbelievable, yet still satisfying climax. Well done for that.


- Yeah, it’s all very contrived and reliant on coincidence, that was the point. Not to be taken too seriously.

Again, thanks for the read, glad you got a couple of kicks out of it anyway. Few things to look at during the rewrite too. Cheers.

Col.
Posted by: Matthew Taylor, April 3rd, 2019, 5:34am; Reply: 34
Good Morning

I really want this comment to be helpful, I fear it won't be. I'll just write down my thoughts and feelings I had when I read through it - Take from it what you will  :)

I had to read the opening description of the trick shot set up a few times before I got it - I don't know how or if it can be clearer - Could have just been me being tired and not getting it.

A lot of characters kept making me go back to check who they were and what they had been doing - Don't think it's too much of an issue - it trips up the read somewhat, but this is a script, after all, seeing the characters wouldn't be nearly as confusing as reading them. But the count could easily be cut down without losing anything

The pool table scene seems to get too much screen time, the same back and forth of "will I/Won't I bet" - I beleive it could be cut down without losing anything - It would also naturally shorten if you cut some of the superfluous characters.

Your dialogue is very authentic - You probably know that already, just wanted to pay a compliment on it lol

I love the match cut imagery of the pool balls and the drama in the next room - I did wonder why you capped the colour of their clothes, to tell is it is important. Cleverly done


Quoted Text
Derek turns around. Meg and Shelley step aside. Kathy
brandishes a balled fist, a large WEDDING RING evident.

The red and blue balls separate...allowing the black to drop
down into the path of the incoming white ball..


The above seems out of order, personally, I would have shown the 2 balls separating first, then show the two characters moving - probably because the order before this was - we see the white ball moving, then we see Kathy moving.

The way I pictured it in my head was seeing Kathy's fist flying towards him - cut to the white ball smashing into the black - So not seeing the actual punch. I know if it was written this way, people would tell me I'm trying to direct the shot - that's the way I saw it anyway.

Like I say - very good and very clever - I particularly liked the cheers as the trick shot worked, which echoes the feeling of cheer the audience would feel seeing Derek get what he deserves

It kinda falls a bit after this - I didn't like the Kathy speech telling me about the bribe. Personally, I would have used flashbacks to show these things. Again, some people don't like flashbacks - but would be better visually I think - especially if it follows the flow of the �20

flashback to Bob bribing Kathy for �20 - cut to the �20 being placed on the pool table - cut to Ritchie taking the �20 winnings and handing it to Kathy as they pass - something like that.

This would tell us, the audience, about the deception and bribe - but I don't think Derek needs to know about it - It kinda vindicated him a little bit "this guy is a jerk, but, he has just been betrayed by his brother so I feel a bit for him in that regard" - There could be a way to hint it to him, so it ends with the brothers arguing about what this "deal" was - I dunno, spitballing lol

I like the twist that Kathy is also unfaithful - could have been clearer I thought, but again, could just be me being tired and not getting it straight away.

That's all I have - sorry if it's not helpful. I also haven't read the other comments so apologies if any of this has already come up and you have responded to it.

All the best

Matt






Posted by: Colkurtz8, April 8th, 2019, 12:26am; Reply: 35
Mathew

Thanks for taking the time to check this out.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I really want this comment to be helpful, I fear it won't be. I'll just write down my thoughts and feelings I had when I read through it - Take from it what you will  :)


That’s all good and all I can ask for in a review.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I had to read the opening description of the trick shot set up a few times before I got it - I don't know how or if it can be clearer - Could have just been me being tired and not getting it.


Yeah, there is quite a bit of visual description to get across. I tried to do it as succinctly and clearly as possible.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
A lot of characters kept making me go back to check who they were and what they had been doing - Don't think it's too much of an issue - it trips up the read somewhat, but this is a script, after all, seeing the characters wouldn't be nearly as confusing as reading them. But the count could easily be cut down without losing anything


The number of characters has been an issue for some people but yes I agree that it wouldn’t be as much of a problem on screen. The reason for having so many around the pool table was to increase the stakes. The possibility that Richie can get one over on a few people rather than just one stooge. It's more amusing too. You don’t really have to remember each one, they are purely functional in order to accumulate the wager.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
The pool table scene seems to get too much screen time, the same back and forth of "will I/Won't I bet" - I beleive it could be cut down without losing anything - It would also naturally shorten if you cut some of the superfluous characters.


Perhaps. I wanted to include some back and forth there to increase the drama. I could easily pair it down to a simpler conversation but where is the fun in that? I feel the most enjoyment is derived from seeing how the bet comes to pass, at least for me it was when writing it. Maybe I’m being too indulgent.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
Your dialogue is very authentic - You probably know that already, just wanted to pay a compliment on it lol

I love the match cut imagery of the pool balls and the drama in the next room - I did wonder why you capped the colour of their clothes, to tell is it is important. Cleverly done


Thanks


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
The above seems out of order, personally, I would have shown the 2 balls separating first, then show the two characters moving - probably because the order before this was - we see the white ball moving, then we see Kathy moving.

The way I pictured it in my head was seeing Kathy's fist flying towards him - cut to the white ball smashing into the black - So not seeing the actual punch. I know if it was written this way, people would tell me I'm trying to direct the shot - that's the way I saw it anyway.


Yeah, either way will work I think. Its effectiveness would depend a lot on the editing here. I mean, it could alternate multiple times within this very moment.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
It kinda falls a bit after this - I didn't like the Kathy speech telling me about the bribe. Personally, I would have used flashbacks to show these things. Again, some people don't like flashbacks - but would be better visually I think - especially if it follows the flow of the �20


Yeah, the coda has been an issue for some people. Kathy’s speech is a bit long winded and I don’t have a problem with flashbacks but I wanted to remain present in the scene. I think it has more impact on screen to see Bob/Derek’s reactions to her revelations.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
flashback to Bob bribing Kathy for �20 - cut to the �20 being placed on the pool table - cut to Ritchie taking the �20 winnings and handing it to Kathy as they pass - something like that.


I do like this visual matching though. Nice idea. Thanks.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
This would tell us, the audience, about the deception and bribe - but I don't think Derek needs to know about it - It kinda vindicated him a little bit "this guy is a jerk, but, he has just been betrayed by his brother so I feel a bit for him in that regard" - There could be a way to hint it to him, so it ends with the brothers arguing about what this "deal" was - I dunno, spitballing lol


Some people have suggested I finish it after the trick shot/punch moment, that the correlation between them is enough. That could work but I liked the idea of mounting one double-cross/betrayal after another so it enters an almost farcical realm. This pub is just a cesspool of deceit, sleaze and petty avarice.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I like the twist that Kathy is also unfaithful - could have been clearer I thought, but again, could just be me being tired and not getting it straight away.


Yeah, I enjoyed including that little tag at the end too for the reasons just stated.


Quoted from Matthew Taylor
That's all I have - sorry if it's not helpful. I also haven't read the other comments so apologies if any of this has already come up and you have responded to it.


No worries, you gave me some good suggestions, cheers. I wouldn’t fret about repeating what others have said because, firstly, I’d never expect you to trawl through other comments, secondly, I prefer someone to read a script totally blindsided and thirdly, if you repeat something others have said (positive or negative) then it’s a note worth paying attention to.

Let me know if you want to do another exchange.

Thanks again

Col.
Posted by: Matthew Taylor, April 9th, 2019, 5:08am; Reply: 36

Quoted Text
Some people have suggested I finish it after the trick shot/punch moment, that the correlation between them is enough. That could work but I liked the idea of mounting one double-cross/betrayal after another so it enters an almost farcical realm. This pub is just a cesspool of deceit, sleaze and petty avarice.


Nah - I liked the interwoven deceit and lies - without it then it's just two separate stories linked only by visuals - I think the point I was trying to make was I would have liked it to have been more visual rather than the info coming from a monologue.


Quoted Text
Let me know if you want to do another exchange.


More than happy for another exchange - I think all of the scripts I have up on here are now out of date lol. I'll drop you a message when I got some new versions up  :)
Posted by: Colkurtz8, April 10th, 2019, 6:55am; Reply: 37

Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Nah - I liked the interwoven deceit and lies - without it then it's just two separate stories linked only by visuals - I think the point I was trying to make was I would have liked it to have been more visual rather than the info coming from a monologue.


Yeah, a flashback is definitely something that could be inserted there to make it more cinematic.



Quoted from Matthew Taylor
More than happy for another exchange - I think all of the scripts I have up on here are now out of date lol. I'll drop you a message when I got some new versions up  :)


Cool. Let me know.

Posted by: Matthew Taylor, July 24th, 2019, 5:05am; Reply: 38
Hi Col

I've finally got some new versions of stuff on here - let me know if your up for another exchange.

Matt
Posted by: Colkurtz8, July 28th, 2019, 9:40am; Reply: 39

Quoted from Matthew Taylor
I've finally got some new versions of stuff on here - let me know if your up for another exchange.


Yep, I just sent you a private message.

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