I have a question that I'd like to know the answer to.

Let's say a company wants me to write a feature for them. They give me a genre and a theme. My first job is to write a two page plot outline. If they like it, I'm supposed to write a fifteen page treatment. If they like that, I get paid upfront before I write the screenplay itself.

My question is, let's say they like the 2 pager. I write the treatment. They hate it, but I'm sort of liking it by now. Who owns the treatment? Can I go on and write the screenplay anyway and would it be mine? Should I copyright the treatment as my work?

Any thoughts? I'm a bit lost on this one.   ??)

I had a similar opportunity a while back and I had the same questions, and I don't think I ever got them answered.

I think the basic premise is that unless you sign something to the contrary, your work is yours until you assign the rights away. Since genre and theme cannot be copywritten I don't believe they're providing you with anything proprietary; if they however begin to supply story elements then this would start to become a collaboration.

I don't think you can copyright a treatment, but I'm not sure. A treatment is just an idea, though more organized. So you could still write a script based on that treatment. Anyone could, actually. I think.

Treatments can be copyrighted...

treatments is a longer synopsis. I say copyright it. doesn't hurt to be safe. And it's your story. I might be wrong about this. :)

I'd be fairly confident to say that whatever your write is your own until you sell it. Even if the producers are tossing ideas at you, they can't copyright those ideas. If they bail out and you don't sign any binding contract, I'd guess you're free to do whatever you want with it.

If that happens, I would tell them you're moving forward on the script without them. See if they fire anything back at you...

James

When they first sent me the log line, it was rather long btw, I asked them some questions just so I would know what they were looking for and they provided answers and suggestions, so, they did have some story suggestions for sure. In the treatment however, I imagine most of the work will come from me.

They also told me that they have all their titles and log lines registered....

I'm still confused. Maybe this is something I would have to ask a lawyer about. I'm pretty sure I will register the treatment though...but maybe they will too...  :-/

Well let me add to the confusion then - this particular brand of writing is outlawed by the WGA; so if you intend on joining, be aware that these people will no longer be able to have this type of relationship with you.

And to be eligible you need 24 writing credits, and a feature-length production = 24 on the nose, so if you receive full writing credit on one of these other projects you'll be eligible.

You don't have to join, but you would be able to...

Quoted from ajr this particular brand of writing is outlawed by the WGA; so if you intend on joining, be aware that these people will no longer be able to have this type of relationship with you.

Outlawed? Why?

No, I have never thought of becoming a member even though I guess the two features would make me qualify.

To be honest I don't remember, I just remember looking it up at the time; this sort of quid pro quo, as you go, writing is against WGA rules. Heck, spec writing in general may be against the rules - either you get hired to work on a project, OR you write your own spec and shop it around - I think it's that sort of indentured servitude that frowned upon...

Came across this as I was looking for the answer - interesting stuff...

http://www.movieoutline.com/articles/the-top-ten-reasons-for-when-you-as-a-writer-need-a-screenwriting-lawyer.html

This is from: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf My emphasis.

Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created
in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship
immediately becomes the property of the author who created
the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights
through the author can rightfully claim copyright.
In the case of works made for hire, the employer and not
the employee is considered to be the author. Section 101 of
the copyright law defines a “work made for hire” as:
1 a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or
her employment; or
2 a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as:
• a contribution to a collective work
• a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work
• a translation
• a supplementary work
• a compilation
• an instructional text
• a test
• answer material for a test
• an atlas
if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument
signed by them that the work shall be considered a work
made for hire.

Quoted from Grandma Bear They also told me that they have all their titles and log lines registered.... -/

They definitely don't have the title registered, as WGAW doesn't allow it, nor does the US copyright office.  It is possible to register an idea, or as WGAW says, "Any file may be registered to assist you in documenting the creation of your own work."

So, the logline or synopsis or treatment can be registered, but not the title.  It sounds like they gave you a vague idea for a script, but that treatment is all yours, so definitely register it or copyright it if you want to go further with the project.  I'm no entertainment attorney, but I don't see how these people could realistically sue you if you created all the characters and storyline.

If they hired you to do it, and there's any paperwork suggesting that, it's theirs.  My first produced film was done this way, and I got screenwriting credit, but I never owned any of the material.  Likewise the second script I did for those guys.

The reason the WGA looks down on it is the same reason the idea of you not owning the treatment, etc., is distasteful.  It's a way for predatory filmmakers to get a synopsis or treatment that they can take to another writer.  If you're not getting paid for the treatment or synopsis, both of which are payable under WGA rules, then, sadly, you have placed yourself in a position where they can take your ideas and build upon them with another writer.

The WGA is not perfect, but they mandate that WGA writers only work with WGA-signatory companies who are obligated to pay minimums for the type of work you're describing.  You can certainly still get booted off your own project (friends of mine are working on a rewrite now to avoid that very thing), but you will have been compensated fairly for the work.  I am a very proud member of the WGC and the WGA is only about a week away, though my last two projects' contracts were drawn under WGA rules.  

This is a writer for hire scenario.  Generally speaking, they own the project.  But they should pay you for it.  I take it your contact with them doesn't include this very scenario you're asking about.

Phil

Thanks for all the comments and links!

Since I haven't got paid yet and there has not been any contracts signed yet, I'm going to register the treatment when I have it and the screenplay finished.

So far these guys are easy to deal with, but I've been taken advantage of before, so if something doesn't workout, I won't be depressed or anything. After all I write 5+ pages every day. Might as well be for something that has a little bit of a return for my work.  :)

Quoted from leitskev I don't think you can copyright a treatment, but I'm not sure. A treatment is just an idea, though more organized. So you could still write a script based on that treatment. Anyone could, actually. I think.

I copyright all the treatments for my original written ideas.
Especially if I know I won't be getting to the screenplay for a long time.

So, even if I were to discuss the property with a colleague down the road, I'm safe.
Spitballing ideas is where things get tricky and all collaborative and stuff.

E.D.