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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board / Drama Scripts / Christmas Story - 7WC
Posted by: Don, May 7th, 2012, 8:33pm
Christmas Story by Sean Chipman (mr. blonde) - Drama - A botched Christmas Eve liquor store robbery leads down a destructive path for a cop trying to reconcile with his estranged mother, an alcoholic mall Santa, a mentally unhinged man, his vindictive fiancé and her secret lover. 92 pages - pdf, format 8)
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, May 8th, 2012, 4:58am; Reply: 1
Thanks a bunch, Don, for putting the script up and to Cornetto for organizing this contest. Hopefully, you all don't think it's pitifully slow. =)
P.S. I apologize in advance about stories two and three ("Nothing Important Happened Today" and "Down Payment").
Posted by: Grandma Bear, May 8th, 2012, 4:01pm; Reply: 2
Sean,
I'm sorry it took me so long to finish this. Things came in the way which kept me from doing my hobby.
You asked me to proofread this for you. English is not my 1st language so I am probably not the best want to proofread anything. I am a decent speller, but I totally suck at grammar. :) So if you ask me to read for that then you came to the wrong person. If you wanted input on format, I usually do not comment on the format unless it leaves me completely confused. I do not generally worry about format too much. All I can do is read and tell you what my thoughts are on your story and your characters which is what I have done here.
I had forgot that in your PM you had told me this was 5 vignettes. So, when I 1st started reading I admit that I did get very confused. It might be less confusing on film though. In the end I actually like how you interwove the 5 different character perspectives. That's good. I thought you had this story plotted pretty well. So good job on that too.
Your writing was fine. Some people might complain that it could be more economical and should be written in present tense. I would have preferred that myself as well, but it is not something that really bothered me. There were very few typos as well. In other words, I think your writing was sufficient, but it could be better too.
As far as the characters go, I have to be honest and let you know that I was a little less enthused. The only character that I connected with and felt anything for was Randall. All the other characters did not make an impression on me. For some reason I also got Jason and David confused at times. Not sure why but I did. I also mention later on that I think the character David should have a different name especially since the diner is called Dave's. Another thought I had was that I thought the main character was going to be Chris. I tried to attach myself to him to see where his story would lead, but he was quickly out and gone. Maybe that's another reason for confusion. There is no central character to root for.
So, what can you do to make this script better? I have already mentioned that I like how the 5 stories work together and that I also like the plot. To fix the problem with the characters, I'm not sure. Maybe I did not like them because they kept doing such stupid things all the time. This script is to me very much as if you would like it to be like a Quentin Tarantino script. You even told me it was very dialogue heavy. I read another script one time that was extremely dialogue heavy and when I commented on that to the writer he got defensive. He said that if I knew anything about film I would know that Quentin Tarantino's films are always dialogue heavy and that it's perfectly okay. I told him that Quentin Tarantino is one of my favorite directors and writers. The thing is, QT is a genius. I read somewhere that his IQ is 169 or something like that. His dialogues might seem like idle chatter, but they really are not. The dialogue in context to what else is going on in the scene is what makes his dialogue work. Even if it's just 2 guys talking about coffee when the dead guy is in the trunk of the car. Or as in the beginning of Inglorious Basterds for example, it is filled with tension and multi layered and filled with metaphors. IMHO, you have a lot of idle chatter in your dialogues. I think this would work a lot better if you could make the dialogue more interesting, smarter and not so mundane.
All in all, I think you did a good job, but it still needs work to be great. The following are page by page thoughts as I read your script. If they seemed terse or negative that is not my intention, I just simply wrote what I felt when I read what I read.
I hope this can be of any help to you. Good luck with it. :)
Page 1. Chris says " dispatch said you caught him”. If Chris has already been told that they caught the guy, then why is he driving with the sirens on?
Perhaps Chris, should look into the police car and have a good look at Randall Edwards.
Page 4. Is it important that the car is a red 1990 Chrysler LeBaron? If not, I would scratch that description of the car.
I thought the slug line EXT. DAVE'S was odd. When I 1st read it, I had to stop and think what you meant. Maybe make it easier by adding diner after DAVE'S.
page 5. I forgot what genre you told me this script is. I am suspecting comedy due to the fact that Chris doesn't notice that David is carrying a purse. If this is comedy, you may want to add something in the earlier pages that hint to comedy. With the robbery and the blood splattered in the store, I was thinking that this would be the darker story. A thriller perhaps.
Also, I was a little confused about the guys name is being David and the name of the diner being Dave's. I thought for a moment that maybe David was the owner. If he is not the owner then maybe renaming either David or the diner.
Page 6. Typo, the kind the counter and a mother...
Page 7. Did Maggie forgot about the mother and daughter?
Also, again, is the exact year model and color of the car important?
Page 8. When you 1st introduce the mother and daughter in capital letters, I think you should have introduced them in bed as Casey and Abby right then instead of waiting a few pages. When I 1st read Abby's dialogue, I thought, who the heck is Abby? By introducing them my name right away, it eliminates the confusion.
I am guessing here that the Santa Claus that robbed the liquor store is the mother and daughter husband and dad. Nothing wrong with that as people watching this film would not know this. I am just telling you what I'm thinking while reading.
Page 9. As a mother, I am putting myself in Maggie's shoes. If I was her, I would be very happy to see my son come in to the diner. I am not sure that I am buying Maggie demanding an apology. I don't know how old you are, but I can tell you that as you get older and 19-year-old is just a kid in your eyes. I don't believe any mother would shun her own kid doing something stupid as a teenager. I don't buy her saying ” I don't ever want to see you again”. For that to be believable, he should have done something extremely bad. Here he is as a police officer. If anything, she should be proud of him.
Page 10. Okay, I have now read the 1st 10 pages and now I'm thinking that this is a drama. If that is the case, then what was the part with David? A guy in the short sleeve shirt in winter hurries out of the diner with a purse. I am not sure what that whole part was about. At that time I thought this was comedy. Here we have a cop who obviously does not notice that this guy has stolen a purse. And also because Chris slipped on the ice on the steps. The script reads well and I do want to know what's going to happen next. That's good. But, at the same time I'm confused about the tone and genre. You might want to tweak that a little bit. After 10 min. of film we should definitely have a solid feel for what might be ahead.
Page 14. Slight confusion here. Also, again, I'm still not sure of the genre. Now we have murder too.
I don't quite get the SUPER: at the end of the page. Why inserting that nothing important happened today? Also, in the slug line it says DAVE'S - BACK. I'm assuming that you mean that David is at the backside of the diner.
Page 15. IMHO, I would probably just write "EXT. DAVE'S - NIGHT instead all back and front. Then just write in the action paragraph that Dave does this and that at the back of the diner then moves along the side to the front instead of using 2 separate slug lines. He is still in the same location EXT. DINER so that would be totally okay.
Page 16. David has just killed Chris, yet here he is with Sasha at the diner. Killing the cop didn't affect him at all? I find that rather unlikely.
There is also a lot of idle chatter on this page. I would suggest reworking the dialogue so it is not so pedestrian or trim it.
Page 18. Maggie says " you had me worried there for a 2nd. There's enough caffeine in there to stop a horse." Why does she even say that? David said it needed more shoulder, not caffeine.
Again, lots of idle chatter on this page as well. Try to remember that dialogue has to move the story forward. Otherwise it's just chatter that does nothing.
Page 19. Maggie just brought them coffee and now they are leaving. They don't even pay...
Page 22. David isn't very carefully is he?
Page 23. I would trim some of the dialogue on this page. The short little words that don't matter.
Page 24. Okay, I get it. This whole scene with David is from earlier. The past.
How does Vincent see David? Just curious.
Page 26. Instead of writing that David hears a loud bang, I would just write, A loud BANG is heard.
Page 27. At this point I'm not really sure that David and Sasha were going to get married or not, but if they were, he sure does not seem very upset about what he has done. In fact, he does not show a lot of emotion at all.
I may be at a disadvantage here since I do not remember your log line. Is it possible that David just hears voices? That Vincent is in his head? To be honest, I don't understand this Vincent character at all. If he is all in David's head, then how would he know about Sasha and the beer and the underweare? David asking if it was true and Vincent said it was. How could he know and David did not?
Page 31. I'm not really sure why you decided on this type of timeline where you show one thing then go back and replay it from a different perspective.
LOL! I just read read your PM from simply scripts. I guess that explains it all! Except, I'm still confused about the genre.
I page 34. Okay, so I know you said in your PM that the same scene keeps playing over and over. That is fine, however, here on page 34 there is absolutely no tensions or anything since we already know that David will shoot Chris. I'm hoping, that you are not going to play this same scene over and over. If you do, I don't think it's going to work.
I am also still confused about Vincent. Is he in David's head or on the phone?
Posted by: Grandma Bear, May 8th, 2012, 4:02pm; Reply: 3
Page 36. The slide on the ground pulls back? By itself or does David do it?
David drops his gun. Does he leave it there? If he does that seems like a rather dumb move. They could probably tracing down by the gun but also, whenever the cops stop a car, the license plate has already been checked. The cop cars have cameras in them that automatically check every single license plate that come into their view. Besides, Chris was near the trunk of David's car. Chris' car would be parked behind David's car. In other words, all this would end up being filmed by the foreword camera in the cop car. Maybe that's how you wanted it, I'm just saying…
Page 37. I see, Vincent is just a voice in his head. So, David is a complete whack job. Oh, now David throws the Bluetooth out. I'm confused again. Who is Vincent?
Page 40. The whole dialogue piece with Maggie does nothing to further the story. Either rethink the dialogue to give it some meaning or skip that part.
Page 41. Except for Maggie the diner is empty. Did I miss something? I thought Abby was in there singing.
Page 42. If I were you I would skip that whole lecture by Matthew.
Page 44. Here we have Sasha hiring a hitman, and she asks him about his family and insisting to know his name and other silliness. I am not a big fan of this conversation here, I'm sorry to say. If that is really what you want her to do, then realize that she comes across as some major major idiot. What does she expect, for them to be friends?
Page 46. I highly doubt that a man would tell someone who hires him just how many people he had killed. IMHO, it is okay to have a lot of dialogue, but it must make sense and some of this does not.
Page 51. After reading this whole piece with Matthew, I can't say I'm a fan of it. I just cannot picture any hitman who sticks around and chit chats with this young girl. It just doesn't ring true to me at all. I mean, he knows enough about her and what she wants him to do, he's got the money, seems to me he would want to cut things short and just get the hell out of there. By sitting around and talking to her he is risking being not just seen but also remembered buy the other diner patrons.
Page 52. When Sasha says " never shake the devil's hand, what the hell is that even supposed to mean" again, it makes her sound rather stupid. Maybe that is what you want her character to be, I'm just pointing out in case that was not your intention.
In my humble opinion, you have a lot of words in the dialogue that are just things like, thanks, hey, you're welcome. Those can definitely be cut as they add nothing to this story.
Page 53. You write, that she sips her coffee then shrugs. Just curious, why does she shrugg? That action does not seem to fit here.
Page 57. What is a sobriety coin chip?
Page 61. Although, Randall is not a pleasant person, you managed to at least make me feel something for him. I understand his frustration with his situation, therefore, of all these vignettes, I like his the best so far. He is in my opinion a better developed character than some of the others. So, good job on him.
Page 62.” No one responds", I don't get that part. Who does not respond? The other cars or Casey and Randall?
Page 65. I don't know but you, but when I hear a gunshot and I am not at a shooting range, I tend to get scared and want to go as far away from the shooting as possible. I guess Randall it's a lot braver than me. Something to think about when it comes to believability of characters actions.
So, Jason used two guns?
Page 66. I don't think Randall, should be hanging his head in shame. He didn't do it. Seems more likely to me that he would be trying to convince the police of his innocence instead.
Still very good work with Randall.
Randall's speech here feels a little bit like preaching about social issues. In this case health insurance. I would trim that up some to lessen that feel.
Page 70. If Jason robs the liquor store wearing his Santa Claus outfit, you might want to mention that outfit when he comes running out of the store when Randall sees him.
Small typo, Heather " leans" on the counter.
I didn't know they have 24 packs of beer.
Btw, the interaction here between Jason and Heather is a good chance to make more interesting dialogue. Can't you think of anything better for Heather to say than, is this all? Maybe she could flirt or joke around with him a little bit. Maybe she could ask him " you think that's going to be enough?" And then have him say something back instead of just asking lazily if that's all?
Page 72. How does Jason know Heather's name?
Out of curiosity, why did Jason throw the gun in the snow? If he is not going to keep it, why did he not leave it in the store? I mean, it's not like they are not going to find it.
Page 73. Jason has just been upset that he shot Heather. He said he only wanted the money, yet here he is a few seconds later shooting at Randall. I know he did not hit him, but still, would someone who is upset about just having killed someone do that?
Very dumb move to throw the gun. Anyone who is at least a little bit familiar with guns knows better than to throw it. It could easily go off and the bullet could be heading right back at Jason. Also, what about fingerprints? I guess he does not worry about things like that.
Page 76. Other then the part with a lottery ticket where Jason wins $250,000 this scene is exactly like the one earlier. It takes away some of the fun when you are watching a repeat.
Page 77.” Matthew doesn't acknowledge. Probably ignoring Jason”? Surely you can find a better way to describe this.
Confusion here. Who is Joseph? I must have totally forgot about him because I have no idea who he is.
Page 80. Again, I'm having a hard time believing or even understanding some of the characters reactions to things here. Jason has just robbed a liquor store, killed the clerk and shot at Randall and here he is standing outside the diner jingling a bell for donations. Likewise, Sasha, did not seem to upset when Jason said he had killed the clerk. I know which movies we have to suspend our disbelief, but when characters responds or reacts to events that are totally unfamiliar to the audience we tend to not be able to connect with them. And that is how I feel now.
Page 85. Although it is a nice touch for Jason to give away a lottery ticket, it would be more powerful if Jason did not tell her how much the ticket was worth. It would make Jason more of a hero if he does not mention the money or how much it would help Abby. Giving anonymously it's more powerful then bringing attention to your gift.
Page 92. Even if the phone is broken, isn't the history still on the memory card?
Why would Matthew not to hand him the gun? Why tape it underneath a mailbox?
Page 94. There is no need to tell us that Sasha's body is still in the trunk. If we can't see it, don't tell us about it. Besides, it becomes obvious that she is still in the trunk when David pulls her out.
2 questions here. There is a 2 foot hole in the ground. Is it 2 feet deep or is it a 2 ft square? I just want to be able to picture it correctly. Also, it is winter and cold yet David has no problem digging in the ground…
I just realized that instead of having NIGHT or DAY you just write LATER and because of that I have no idea what time of day it is now. I don't comments much on format and such, but I do believe in using NIGHT or DAY only rather than whatever the writer feels like. And for production purposes especially they need to know if it is in night shoot or daytime shoot. Also, you use LATER incorrectly. LATER should be used only when we are still in the same location not an entirely different scene. You do as you please of course, I'm just saying…
Page 96. I'm confused again. What exactly happened to Randall?
I didn't quite understand why you start in the living room at David's house. Why show the living room when he is in the kitchen? Why not start there?
Page 99. Okay so I guess Randall committed suicide. In that same piece of dialogue btw, you called the clerk Michelle. I thought her name was Heather.
David says, somebody killed her sister. Whose sister? I'm confused again. Was she Sasha's sister? If so, that needs to be mentioned somewhere so an audience can make that connection. If you made their last names the same in this script, a reader with a good memory might make that connection, however, I don't think an audience would unless it is mentioned somewhere during the film.
8)
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, May 8th, 2012, 5:38pm; Reply: 4
Pia,
Thank you for reading it, but don't apologize for taking so long. Let me apologize for subjecting you to it. This is a difficult script to sit through. Now, you had some great notes and some questions, I'm assuming, because you took notes as you read. It would make sense, because the answers come at some point.
I also mention later on that I think the character David should have a different name especially since the diner is called Dave's. Another thought I had was that I thought the main character was going to be Chris. I tried to attach myself to him to see where his story would lead, but he was quickly out and gone. Maybe that's another reason for confusion. There is no central character to root for. |
I was considering that and would likely change the character names. These are (mostly) my standby character names that I like to re-use. Yeah, the vignettes threw that off, with Chris. His story was, way back in the day, going to be an OWC contest entry, but then I asked the question, "Who killed him?"
Maybe I did not like them because they kept doing such stupid things all the time. This script is to me very much as if you would like it to be like a Quentin Tarantino script. You even told me it was very dialogue heavy. I read another script one time that was extremely dialogue heavy and when I commented on that to the writer he got defensive. He said that if I knew anything about film I would know that Quentin Tarantino's films are always dialogue heavy and that it's perfectly okay. I told him that Quentin Tarantino is one of my favorite directors and writers. The thing is, QT is a genius. I read somewhere that his IQ is 169 or something like that. His dialogues might seem like idle chatter, but they really are not. The dialogue in context to what else is going on in the scene is what makes his dialogue work. Even if it's just 2 guys talking about coffee when the dead guy is in the trunk of the car. Or as in the beginning of Inglorious Basterds for example, it is filled with tension and multi layered and filled with metaphors. IMHO, you have a lot of idle chatter in your dialogues. I think this would work a lot better if you could make the dialogue more interesting, smarter and not so mundane. |
I don't pretend to be nearly as good as him however many of the dumb character decisions were intentional. These are not, for the most part, career criminals. About the chatter, though, the dialogue wasn't as much idle chatter (in my own opinion) as it was in previous incarnations. I tried to give most of the lines a purpose, but didn't do so well, apparently.
If they seemed terse or negative that is not my intention, I just simply wrote what I felt when I read what I read. |
That's perfectly cool with me. I accept harsh any time it includes usable criticism. Bring it on.
Page 1. Chris says " dispatch said you caught him”. If Chris has already been told that they caught the guy, then why is he driving with the sirens on? |
That line of dialogue was a last minute replacement (as was a good portion of it).
Perhaps Chris, should look into the police car and have a good look at Randall Edwards. |
I wanted to avoid him getting a good look at Randall intentionally. He's, at that moment, the villain.
Page 4. Is it important that the car is a red 1990 Chrysler LeBaron? If not, I would scratch that description of the car. |
It's habit. No, it's not 100% necessary to know, but I have a belief with my stories that the cars the characters drive signify who they are inside. Most of my characters are down-on-their-luck people and tend to drive poor condition cars.
I thought the slug line EXT. DAVE'S was odd. When I 1st read it, I had to stop and think what you meant. Maybe make it easier by adding diner after DAVE'S. |
Strongly considering.
Page 6. Typo, the kind the counter and a mother... |
Consider it fixed.
Page 8. When you 1st introduce the mother and daughter in capital letters, I think you should have introduced them in bed as Casey and Abby right then instead of waiting a few pages. When I 1st read Abby's dialogue, I thought, who the heck is Abby? By introducing them my name right away, it eliminates the confusion. |
I probably will have to do that but I was really avoiding it. Basically, I wanted them to be an afterthought until Chris paid attention to them because this story was his point of view.
I am guessing here that the Santa Claus that robbed the liquor store is the mother and daughter husband and dad. Nothing wrong with that as people watching this film would not know this. I am just telling you what I'm thinking while reading. |
Half-right. Still good, though.
Page 9. As a mother, I am putting myself in Maggie's shoes. If I was her, I would be very happy to see my son come in to the diner. I am not sure that I am buying Maggie demanding an apology. I don't know how old you are, but I can tell you that as you get older and 19-year-old is just a kid in your eyes. I don't believe any mother would shun her own kid doing something stupid as a teenager. I don't buy her saying ” I don't ever want to see you again”. For that to be believable, he should have done something extremely bad. Here he is as a police officer. If anything, she should be proud of him. |
That was a victim of extreme amounts of exposition. I had this whole backstory where he was pissed at her and his dad died of pancreatic cancer and Maggie just lives with a cat who's nearly as old as Chris but it rambled forever. I cut it down, but probably have to figure out another way.
You might want to tweak that a little bit. After 10 min. of film we should definitely have a solid feel for what might be ahead. |
I didn't want to play David's pratfall for laughs but I suppose that's how it came out. It was supposed to be drama for the most part.
I don't quite get the SUPER: at the end of the page. Why inserting that nothing important happened today? Also, in the slug line it says DAVE'S - BACK. I'm assuming that you mean that David is at the backside of the diner. |
In an effort to avoid confusion (which seemed to have the opposite effect), I gave each story a name. That's the super. "Nothing Important Happened Today" is the name of David's story like "The Gift of Family" was Chris'. As for the second part, correct.
Page 15. IMHO, I would probably just write "EXT. DAVE'S - NIGHT instead all back and front. Then just write in the action paragraph that Dave does this and that at the back of the diner then moves along the side to the front instead of using 2 separate slug lines. He is still in the same location EXT. DINER so that would be totally okay. |
I tried to do the one that seemed like it would use less space. I guess if it makes for an easier read, I could sacrifice succinctness a bit.
Page 16. David has just killed Chris, yet here he is with Sasha at the diner. Killing the cop didn't affect him at all? I find that rather unlikely. |
As you saw later on, this takes before the previous story.
There is also a lot of idle chatter on this page. I would suggest reworking the dialogue so it is not so pedestrian or trim it. |
I wanted it to seem like idle chatter, but I was hoping it would be explained in Sasha's story that she brought her sister up for a reason. I'm sure some of it could use trimming, though.
Page 18. Maggie says " you had me worried there for a 2nd. There's enough caffeine in there to stop a horse." Why does she even say that? David said it needed more shoulder, not caffeine. |
I like characters having to misspeak intentionally, but sometimes it comes out wrong. I may fix that line.
Page 19. Maggie just brought them coffee and now they are leaving. They don't even pay... |
Victim of editing.
Page 23. I would trim some of the dialogue on this page. The short little words that don't matter. |
I suppose I could.
Page 26. Instead of writing that David hears a loud bang, I would just write, A loud BANG is heard. |
I had that at one point, but I tried cutting out as many "is"' as I could.
Page 27. At this point I'm not really sure that David and Sasha were going to get married or not, but if they were, he sure does not seem very upset about what he has done. In fact, he does not show a lot of emotion at all. |
Short version, he was pissed that Vincent (who's basically his conscience, the devil on his shoulder) told him she was cheating. As you know, or hopefully was assumed, at least, Vincent was right.
David asking if it was true and Vincent said it was. How could he know and David did not? |
David doesn't believe in himself. He doesn't trust the facts when they're placed right in front of him. Vincent is the active part of David's psyche, the motivational side.
Page 31. I'm not really sure why you decided on this type of timeline where you show one thing then go back and replay it from a different perspective. |
There are two versions of David's story that I have. There's the one with Vincent and the one without. In the one without Vincent, David's story ended when he said, "Hey, officer. Long time, no see" because there was nothing to add to the scene. In this case, there was. But, I obviously need to re-work it.
LOL! I just read read your PM from simply scripts. I guess that explains it all! Except, I'm still confused about the genre. |
The same scene doesn't play over and over. Basically, the events surrounding the robbery are detailed. David's is the only one with any sense of comedy (hopefully).
I'm hoping, that you are not going to play this same scene over and over. If you do, I don't think it's going to work. |
I'm not exactly playing the same scene over and over. I know it gets tedious and I apologized for the second half of story 2 and all of story 3.
I am also still confused about Vincent. Is he in David's head or on the phone? |
Vincent's in his head but David uses the phone to connect with him.
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, May 8th, 2012, 6:13pm; Reply: 5
Page 36. The slide on the ground pulls back? By itself or does David do it? |
If I said ground, I meant gun. And, it does it by itself when the gun's out of bullets.
David drops his gun. Does he leave it there? |
I really forgot to fix that? Shit. He was supposed to take it with him.
whenever the cops stop a car, the license plate has already been checked. The cop cars have cameras in them that automatically check every single license plate that come into their view. |
I didn't want exposition to claim that the car had no camera. Originally, I had it in the script, but couldn't get it across the way I wanted so I cut it.
Page 40. The whole dialogue piece with Maggie does nothing to further the story. Either rethink the dialogue to give it some meaning or skip that part. |
That was my attempt at subtext. I hate trying to write subtext.
Page 41. Except for Maggie the diner is empty. Did I miss something? I thought Abby was in there singing. |
We've gone backwards in time again. This takes place before David's story.
Page 42. If I were you I would skip that whole lecture by Matthew. |
I probably should. I wanted to give Matthew character, but writing this particular story was nearly impossible. I couldn't get it like I wanted at all.
Page 44. Here we have Sasha hiring a hitman, and she asks him about his family and insisting to know his name and other silliness. I am not a big fan of this conversation here, I'm sorry to say. If that is really what you want her to do, then realize that she comes across as some major major idiot. What does she expect, for them to be friends? |
In a way, yes. Sasha's basically my "Jerry Lundegaard" (from Fargo). Knows what she wants done but it highly inept at doing it.
Page 46. I highly doubt that a man would tell someone who hires him just how many people he had killed. IMHO, it is okay to have a lot of dialogue, but it must make sense and some of this does not. |
Agreed completely.
By sitting around and talking to her he is risking being not just seen but also remembered buy the other diner patrons. |
The only other person in there was Maggie. Getting the timing down on this story was a bitch, but in the process, I think I lost the story.
Page 52. When Sasha says " never shake the devil's hand, what the hell is that even supposed to mean" again, it makes her sound rather stupid. Maybe that is what you want her character to be, I'm just pointing out in case that was not your intention. |
It was. She wants David dead but she's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.
In my humble opinion, you have a lot of words in the dialogue that are just things like, thanks, hey, you're welcome. Those can definitely be cut as they add nothing to this story. |
Conundrum. Write faker-sounding dialogue or cut out basic things that people say to each other. My dialogue here was bad enough without trying to make it even more movie-ish. I'll probably just cut it.
Page 53. You write, that she sips her coffee then shrugs. Just curious, why does she shrugg? That action does not seem to fit here. |
Without having the script open in front of me, I don't recall. It can probably go, too.
Page 57. What is a sobriety coin chip? |
For recovering addicts, it's a little coin they give you for different stages of how long you've been sober. Kind of like an accomplishment.
Page 61. Although, Randall is not a pleasant person, you managed to at least make me feel something for him. I understand his frustration with his situation, therefore, of all these vignettes, I like his the best so far. He is in my opinion a better developed character than some of the others. So, good job on him. |
This story was mainly my brother's. He deserves the credit on this one. All the others were mine.
Page 62.” No one responds", I don't get that part. Who does not respond? The other cars or Casey and Randall? |
I meant on the phone. I'll clear it up.
Page 65. I don't know but you, but when I hear a gunshot and I am not at a shooting range, I tend to get scared and want to go as far away from the shooting as possible. I guess Randall it's a lot braver than me. Something to think about when it comes to believability of characters actions. |
He heard the gunshot, but didn't really hear it. That's kind of the reaction we were going for.
As you see later, no.
Page 66. I don't think Randall, should be hanging his head in shame. He didn't do it. Seems more likely to me that he would be trying to convince the police of his innocence instead. |
He tries to explain then gives up. He's basically the type of person who has a rain cloud that follows them everywhere. He was accepting it as inevitable.
Randall's speech here feels a little bit like preaching about social issues. In this case health insurance. I would trim that up some to lessen that feel. |
Wasn't trying to be but I can understand how it came off that way.
Page 70. If Jason robs the liquor store wearing his Santa Claus outfit, you might want to mention that outfit when he comes running out of the store when Randall sees him. |
I didn't have him change clothes until the final scene of the story. I just assumed that it would be clear he's still dressed as Santa. I will fix that and make it clearer, though.
Small typo, Heather " leans" on the counter. |
Consider it fixed.
I didn't know they have 24 packs of beer. |
Yep.
Btw, the interaction here between Jason and Heather is a good chance to make more interesting dialogue. Can't you think of anything better for Heather to say than, is this all? Maybe she could flirt or joke around with him a little bit. Maybe she could ask him " you think that's going to be enough?" And then have him say something back instead of just asking lazily if that's all? |
Jason's extremely nervous about the situation. I guess I could've gone that route with Heather, but it would've just added more lines to the script, albeit more interesting lines.
Page 72. How does Jason know Heather's name? |
Line of prose I cut. He reads her nametag.
Out of curiosity, why did Jason throw the gun in the snow? If he is not going to keep it, why did he not leave it in the store? I mean, it's not like they are not going to find it. |
It was her gun and he took it while he was flustered and not thinking clearly.
Page 73. Jason has just been upset that he shot Heather. He said he only wanted the money, yet here he is a few seconds later shooting at Randall. I know he did not hit him, but still, would someone who is upset about just having killed someone do that? |
It was meant as a reflexive move. Probably needs to be fixed as well.
Very dumb move to throw the gun. Anyone who is at least a little bit familiar with guns knows better than to throw it. It could easily go off and the bullet could be heading right back at Jason. Also, what about fingerprints? I guess he does not worry about things like that. |
Another line of prose I cut for space. His completed Santa outfit included black gloves.
Page 76. Other then the part with a lottery ticket where Jason wins $250,000 this scene is exactly like the one earlier. It takes away some of the fun when you are watching a repeat. |
One of the most troublesome scenes I had. For a while, my brother and I wrestled with the idea (jokingly) of a cuecard that comes up and reads "Three Minutes Later" and has Jason walking outside. I didn't know how to get around it, properly.
Page 77.” Matthew doesn't acknowledge. Probably ignoring Jason”? Surely you can find a better way to describe this. |
Absolutely. But, I haven't gotten to that point in my revision and the script has a lot more serious problems. But, that fix'll go on the pile as well.
Confusion here. Who is Joseph? I must have totally forgot about him because I have no idea who he is. |
Meant Jason. Misspelling.
Page 80. Again, I'm having a hard time believing or even understanding some of the characters reactions to things here. Jason has just robbed a liquor store, killed the clerk and shot at Randall and here he is standing outside the diner jingling a bell for donations. Likewise, Sasha, did not seem to upset when Jason said he had killed the clerk. |
To cut half a page from the story, I removed a moment from the beginning of Sasha's story (when she's walking to Dave's) and she texts something to someone. In the beginning of Jason's story (when he's inside his car), he receives a text that says "stick to the plan". Basically, that meant do the Salvation Army thing as a cover until she leaves with David. It was a victim of editing but maybe should've stayed. As for Sasha being upset, why would she? She's about to pay a guy to kill her fiancee for his money and is also plotting to eventually kill Jason. She's not suspectible to emotions very easily.
Page 85. Although it is a nice touch for Jason to give away a lottery ticket, it would be more powerful if Jason did not tell her how much the ticket was worth. It would make Jason more of a hero if he does not mention the money or how much it would help Abby. Giving anonymously it's more powerful then bringing attention to your gift. |
I'll definitely look into that one. Although, that's not the point of the story. I wanted everyone's story to end unhappily. Abby and Kasey's will because if they try and cash the ticket, it'll come up as stolen and they won't receive the money anyway.
Page 92. Even if the phone is broken, isn't the history still on the memory card? |
Yes, but Matthew was making sure Jason couldn't use it anymore then the phone would just be taken out with the trash on December 26th.
Why would Matthew not to hand him the gun? Why tape it underneath a mailbox?
Page 94. There is no need to tell us that Sasha's body is still in the trunk. If we can't see it, don't tell us about it. Besides, it becomes obvious that she is still in the trunk when David pulls her out. |
We can see it. The trunk is open and David's sitting on the part that sticks out when the trunk is open.
2 questions here. There is a 2 foot hole in the ground. Is it 2 feet deep or is it a 2 ft square? I just want to be able to picture it correctly. Also, it is winter and cold yet David has no problem digging in the ground… |
I meant for two feet deep. And, yes, he would but time has passed. The short scenes that happen there were supposed to play out like a montage of everyone's situation throughout the night, leading up to Christmas morning.
I just realized that instead of having NIGHT or DAY you just write LATER and because of that I have no idea what time of day it is now. I don't comments much on format and such, but I do believe in using NIGHT or DAY only rather than whatever the writer feels like. And for production purposes especially they need to know if it is in night shoot or daytime shoot. Also, you use LATER incorrectly. LATER should be used only when we are still in the same location not an entirely different scene. You do as you please of course, I'm just saying… |
I'll re-write that part to make it clearer. In my above response, I explained what I was going for, but I don't think I got the spirit of it right.
Page 96. I'm confused again. What exactly happened to Randall? |
Committed suicide in his cell overnight. I don't state an exact method because it's near impossible as they take away almost anything that can be used, but that's generally the idea.
I didn't quite understand why you start in the living room at David's house. Why show the living room when he is in the kitchen? Why not start there? |
I was trying to direct the scene without directing it. The camera would pretty much be passing through the living room into the kitchen where we see David.
Page 99. Okay so I guess Randall committed suicide. In that same piece of dialogue btw, you called the clerk Michelle. I thought her name was Heather. |
Another mistake like Joseph. Good call, Pia.
David says, somebody killed her sister. Whose sister? I'm confused again. Was she Sasha's sister? If so, that needs to be mentioned somewhere so an audience can make that connection. If you made their last names the same in this script, a reader with a good memory might make that connection, however, I don't think an audience would unless it is mentioned somewhere during the film. |
Yeah, that's what I was going for. The damn exposition is killing me. I guess I had to do it, though.[/quote]
But, thank you very much for reading, Pia, and your notes were extremely helpful. =)
Posted by: Electric Dreamer, May 9th, 2012, 8:47am; Reply: 6
Hey Sean!
Congrats again on getting this one ready for the challenge!
Wanted to give you a shout here for your efforts.
Like I said before, I do enjoy the plot machinations in this one.
Though I do agree with Pia that the character motivations can use some sharpening.
But overall, I liked how you brought the stories together.
Is this draft much different than the one you sent me?
If so, I can take a look at those revisions for you.
Keep writing and rewriting!
Regards,
E.D.
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, May 9th, 2012, 10:17am; Reply: 7
I wasn't able to make that many changes, Brett, before the contest. Instead, I noted them and am going to incorporate whatever I can from the help I get here into a re-write.
But, thank you for reading and for your notes.
Posted by: Reef Dreamer, May 10th, 2012, 4:22pm; Reply: 8
Het Sean,
My first notes.
I've managed to avoid looking at Pia's comments but as this is an intriguing script i wonder what difference/similarities we have raised.
It has a real "memento" feel, so far. the story is a simple one, with an interwoven plot, jumbled about. I like the use of the main location from different angles and times.
So far i like it.
Will try and complete tomorrow.
My running notes were;
christmas story - feedback
P1 - continous - used in first three slugs yet i’m not sure its needed
Super - hope this makes snese in due course
James Anderson - what is it about the name Anderson in films?
AMBROZIK - awkward name, wonder whether the spelling has meaning?
P3 - first exchange is slighly confusing two questions without answer
“Was i unclear” - well i dont understand so dont know about him, is he wanted or not?
After - i assume he isnt needed?
P4 would it be clearer if you say he’s pulled up outside daves
Note - by page 5 we have had a lot of character introduced
P7 two specifci cars mentioned in first 7, meaningful?
P9 Maybe - “I Know”, instead of I’m aware
P9 powerful statement from mother - does it need more suggestion as to ther ebing a reason?
P10 a very meaningful moment - good stuuf, just wonder whether it conflcist with teh way he made the decision, which appeared random/
Ok we have a disgruntle cop, a dark family past, yet he set up as caring from the handling of the folk outside the bar.
P10 dont think you need the apologize. leav eit open at angry that it didnt go well?
Flashaback - straight after - not sure
Catalyst i assume P13/14 shot
Super - another one ?
P16-18 alot of david - to be honest this change of focus confuses me a little
P23 David is nasty - we had that before he shot the girl, i hope it makes a difference
P23 how does vincent know he has blood on his jacket? assume he is watching?
P25 WOAH - what have we here, time travel, etc Didnt he shoot chris? Is this the break into 2? a change of reality? And who the f**k is vincent . A voice inside the head?
Oh did i miss something that we have flashed backwards a la memento?
P29 whoever vincent is, if he exisis, theres alot of conversation with him
p30 vincent sees something that david doesnt? i wonder how this can be?\
P34 ok phone is off and vincent still calls!!
P35/36 - the impression i have is that david is an insane killer with schizphrenic tendaices - i’m just not persuded with the look or shame and sorrow etc, confused maybe.
P36 he killed his girlfreind brutally and in public, he was cool beforehand in the bar, very calculated, these actions dont come across as a remorseful person
P36 your just a voice in my head - too easy for my liking, too much reversed, too quickly
P37 so he drops the bluetooth out - maybe i’m wrong on the head problems, but ti doesnt come across that way, and if i’m right, you dont get rid of them, you know they are part of you
P37 another tiem movement i assume with fade out fade in
P42 - i like this, very memento, twisty, yet simple.
Posted by: kingcooky555, May 10th, 2012, 4:22pm; Reply: 9
Finished reading. I enjoyed how you put all the stories together - Tarantino/Pulp Fiction style. Even your logline reads very similar to Pulp Fiction (as per IMDB).
I had lots of notes in the beginning about so many character introductions, and the main character killed by page 15. But after reading it straight through, I now know what that paper Chris picks up in the first ten pages. I thought it was just some random action.
However, I still found a lot of unnecessary chit chat between the characters. It's even more important in your script as you repeat certain scenes more than once, and these scenes have cuttable chit/chat dialogue.
For example, on page 25:
Chris: You ok?
David: Yeah.
Chris: Take it easy next time, all right?
DAvid: Will do.
In this exchange you can cut out "You,ok?" and "Yeah". The second exchange kind of mirrors the first exchange. So cut one and keep the other. No need to repeat the same thing. It's even more apparent in this script because you repeat certain scenes later down the line, and this superflous chit chat slows down your narrative and dialogue flow.
Also, there's a bunch of unnecessary action. For example, on page 81:
Abby and Kasey get out of the car.
Kasey walks to the diner.
Abby walks towards Jason.
Kasey turns back, stands by Abby.
Four lines could be condensed to "Abby and Kasey exit the car. They walk towards Jason." I don't see any reason why you'd split a simple action into four action lines. It's stuff like this you have to watch out for in this kind of narrative you're trying to write.
Notes from my read. I've cut a lot because the story became clear as I read to the end:
pg 14 - Change the diner name or David's name. Too closely related to each other. Also, the diner is quite an important place in the script. Try to find a more memorable name for it. How about "Happy Days"? It's a 50's theme and kind of ironic with what goes on in and around that diner.
pg 42 Matthew's monologue: You have an extra space between "put... out"
pg 70 keans should be leans?
I'm a Tarantino fan so I like what you're doing here. Also, this story looks low budget so you might get some indie prods. interested in this, as there's always somebody looking for the next Pulp Fiction. Good luck.
Posted by: darrentomalin, May 11th, 2012, 9:35am; Reply: 10
I had to force myself to read a christmas script as I am not a big fan of seasonal stories (No i'm not a grinch) but the logline certainly isn't Ho Ho Ho!
I love out of synch scripts as the payoff at the end as the stories interconnect and twist together throughout is a great reward for those who can get their head around non linear. The only problem that comes with non-linear is sometimes you have to go back and re-read a section to fully understand it and this takes you out of the story. However, you pulled it off really well!
I made some notes but most of them are just little technical and trimming observations that have already been said above as this is the last but one of the 7wc for me to read.
It's funny, people say that we should swrite realistic dialogue, but in my experience people DO say "Hi, How are you" "You ok?" "yeah" "Thanks" but when we put them in, people say that it's unnecessary chit-chat lol!
I can see why you put them in and what you are doing here, these people are all dealing with serious issues, when their minds are so filled with plots, murder, hit men, poverty and family problems, that they haven't got the processing power to come up with witty one liners and engaging dialogue.
I felt something for all of the characters and understood their direction as the stories unfolded. It was like Magnolia if firected by QT for me though of course, no one can replciate his dialogue though we keep trying lol!
There are some lines that can be cut but overall I never felt bogged down and always had asense that a line was in there for a reason. The story(s) flowed for me and they wove together very nicely.
An ambitious script but I think you pulled it off!
I knew straight away when the first SUPER came up that we were going to be looking at a few different shorts taht made one whole so didn't even make any structure notes. I knew they'd come together later on. It is quite depressing though but any emotional response is a good one.
Good job.
Posted by: Grandma Bear, May 11th, 2012, 9:50am; Reply: 11
When I said a lot of the dialogue was idle chatter, I hardly meant the script needed witty one liners... :-/
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, May 11th, 2012, 12:31pm; Reply: 12
I'm going to do this quick and simple for now because I'm about ready to stab somebody.
I want to thank Reef Dreamer, Kingcooky555 and Darrenjames for their reviews and insight.
This is just a placeholder for now because I just came back after a couple days of busy writing and was going to reply to all at once. The second I finished the review, my laptop shut itself down and I lost the file.
I will re-do it and give the reviews the attention they deserve, but not this second because I'm frustrated as hell right now.
Posted by: Reef Dreamer, May 11th, 2012, 2:58pm; Reply: 13
Sean,
carrying on.
I thought this was a decent inter woven script but if it lacked anything it was a spine. The cord that connects the parts with a deeper meaning. I appreciate there is a theme of desperation, almost what you would do for the love of others etc, people in desperate situations.
If you recall Memento, we follow the pro tag and hope him to achieve. I feel that one story should be drip feed throughout to bind the parts and we see how they all affect it.
maybe the bitter sweet death of randall with a later realisation that he in some way did save his child - would need a readjustment
i think you achieve a lot. well done.
Carrying on p42
P42 not wholly sure why sasha is asking him whether he’s cool about killing
P42 Matthews history lesson - seems a bit odd
P46 maybe its me, or thte fact i am reading this the next day, but i’m trying to remeber who jason was, arh now i remeber the sant claus from outside
P48 jason killing a clerk for money??
P49 sasha responding about jason - seesm unlikely she would make an opinion to Matthew
P53 another time variations i assume
and another Super
And i’m trying to remember who randall was/is, scrolling back he is the thief caught at the beginning. Could he he more memorable?
P57 was scene with randall and barrett overly long?
P57 - quite like the two cars alongside each other
Dave’s and David - the names wre getting mixed up with me, maybe change one
P61 at this stage i have a real feel for the film Crash, almost more than memento
P66 nice bite to the randall scene
P67 why wouldnt he say no it wasnt him - he didnt touch the gun, right?
P70 at this point, ilike the story, i like the dynamics but i wonder who i’m following rooting for. I just wondered whether this affect the viewer
P75 love the lottery ticket
P75 still not sure he would tell a bounty hnter waht hes done
P79 detail is a bit on the nose about the orphanage
Also one point - the scenes are well played out but clealry seperated so we are forced to remember what went on - makes it a bit harder to connect
P81 how would you know it is a 1990 Chrysler ? are we just saying dated?
P85 really nice touch the man who shot a woman who framed the father gives the moneya cross BUT the way is too on the nose. Why not “a present from sanata”, thats realsies later. with the chessy was that sanat moment
P86 v nice touch - jason road to damacus moment BUT why is he sanat ? is he just waiting? but why have a can?
Bitter sweet, dark and with mied emotions -
decent work
Posted by: nawazm11, May 16th, 2012, 5:04am; Reply: 14
Hey, Sean. This is up next. :)
I skimmed through the comments, so I apologize if I repeat something.
Okay, to tell you the truth, somewhere near the end, I got lost on which character was which. I'm pretty sure it's only me, though? But this isn't a problem, as there would be no confusion on screen. It's not that I had no clue what was going on, it's just it was a lot of characters to digest. I understood 90% of the story (I think ;D).
I am a major fan of these types of movies, I just love it how everything comes together. Not Pulp Fiction style like everybody is mentioning, but Alejandro González Iñárritu style. His first three movies Amores Perros, 21 Grams and Babel, were really well made. Kudos go to Guillermo Arriaga who wrote all three of them, and on youtube, you can see his interviews where he talks about how he structured the story if you're interested.
Anyway, I think you've done a great job bringing everything together. The characters were obviously well thought out and cutting them would make major plot holes in the story. A great thing about this story was that everything was wrapped up, and no characters were left without a story. When Randall commits suicide, that really got me, so great job on that.
I think you've nailed the low budget here, as this could be easily filmed on no more than 2 million. Not including the cars and the end, you only have, I think 2 locations? Many producers will be interested in this. But because of this, the story was a little bland for me, it just needed some spice. Sure, people were shot, but it just wasn't enough for me. That's not bad in anyway, even good because it makes the story low budget.
People seemed to think that there was too much dialogue. I agree, but I don't think it was bad. With this type of story, I think it really needs it, as it follows the life of people. Don't cut IMO.
Overall, I think you did a good job here. My main problem would be the confusion and blandness but that's just my reading and taste. I heard you wrote this several times but your computer kept having a bitch each time?
Page 1: Chris Dejesus? Strange last name. ;D
Page 3: “Was I unclear? look” Not sure if it exists, at least I can't do it. ;D
Page 6: "DAVE’S" is the name of the diner? Or is that just what the characters call the place?
"The diner is empty except for an aged woman in a green and red apron, MAGGIE DEJESUS (62), behind the counter and a MOTHER and DAUGHTER sitting in a booth by the window." Had to read that a few times.
"Maggie is writing in a little flipbook." Could easily eliminate the "ing" and "is" in that sentence.
Page 8: "Bald" Hmm... Guess it should be relevant later on.
Page 10: Guessing Dave was the name of his dead father?
You should make the speeding car a little clearer IMO. :)
Page 11: "He slams on the brakes, watches as the car slows. He looks back at the diner." Watches his own car slow? Or watches the Diner?
Page 12: A “touché” look? Is that even possible! ;D
Page 13: "(Didn’t expect that)" Cut it IMO.
Page 21: How big is the present, again?
Page 22: He was awfully calm about killing someone...
Page 36: "Without me, you were just a little pussywhipped bitch."
Perfect. hahahah ;D ;D
Page 57: A missing comma in the first sentence of the Alliance slug.
Page 59: Knick knacks doesn't seem very specific.
Page 65: Man, did I lose track of the characters. ;D I thought Jason was Randall cause of the santa outfit. :-/
Page 72: He knew her name? If she had a name tag on, it should be mentioned.
Page 77: Joseph?? Who's Joseph??? ;D ;D
Page 99: Think you mean Heather?
Posted by: steven8, May 17th, 2012, 1:24am; Reply: 15
This was very cool. The interweaving of the stories worked for me, but some of the dialog needs clipped. A little too long, and I know, because I have the same problem myself with my writing. :)
This felt a lot like a GUy Ritchie piece. He's always having something happen, then stepping back to see the interplaying scene. I like that, and you did it great.
Sharpen up the dialog, and this will be a-one!
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, May 24th, 2012, 5:58am; Reply: 16
I would like to thank everyone that gave this a read; Reef Dreamer, Kingcooky555, DarrenTomalin, Nawazm11 and Steven8 and gave me all the helpful notes. I'm sorry it took so long to get around to the reviews, but I picked up a new script and have been kind of invested in that, recently.
But, I had to get around to these and tried to be in-depth with my replies. So, thank you to everyone. =)
It has a real "memento" feel, so far. the story is a simple one, with an interwoven plot, jumbled about. I like the use of the main location from different angles and times.
So far i like it. |
Thank you, Bill. I'm glad you liked the structure and seemed to like the script overall.
P1 - continous - used in first three slugs yet i’m not sure its needed
Super - hope this makes snese in due course
James Anderson - what is it about the name Anderson in films?
AMBROZIK - awkward name, wonder whether the spelling has meaning?
P3 - first exchange is slighly confusing two questions without answer
“Was i unclear” - well i dont understand so dont know about him, is he wanted or not?
After - i assume he isnt needed?
P4 would it be clearer if you say he’s pulled up outside daves
Note - by page 5 we have had a lot of character introduced
P7 two specifci cars mentioned in first 7, meaningful?
P9 Maybe - “I Know”, instead of I’m aware
P9 powerful statement from mother - does it need more suggestion as to ther ebing a reason?
P10 a very meaningful moment - good stuuf, just wonder whether it conflcist with teh way he made the decision, which appeared random/
Ok we have a disgruntle cop, a dark family past, yet he set up as caring from the handling of the folk outside the bar.
P10 dont think you need the apologize. leav eit open at angry that it didnt go well?
Flashaback - straight after - not sure
Catalyst i assume P13/14 shot |
I'm going to reply to your review one story at a time.
Continuous and I are old friends. Basically, I have a hard time grasping the concept of writing this that aren't in real time, so it's become a staple for me that I'd like to try and shake.
The Supers are the names of the individual stories. At one point, I wanted to tell the story with music, but got some info to avoid that so I decided on simple Supers.
Anderson and Ambrozik were names my brother created. He also created the name for Randall and his family. The rest were mine.
I have a belief that not every question a person ever asks is answered. Besides, if it were, it would likely just be a throwaway line anyway.
I'll try and clarify Ambrozik's look a little better.
That was the point of their conversation but I'll clear that up as well.
It very well good be clearer that way. I'll look into that.
Oh, there's a lot more (as you know), I assure you. You'll come to know them better, though.
The make and model itself isn't meaningful but I assure you the cars are. I believe that the car a person drives can tell you something about who you are. Being that most of these characters are down on their luck, their old worn-out cars reflect that.
I kind of chose "I'm aware" specifically. He's upset and really doesn't want to discuss it. "I know" is more like him giving in.
I had the reason for a while, but cut it to save about two pages. There was this long diatribe about his dead dad who had pancreatic cancer and it was just exposition that did nothing anywhere.
He's trying to reach out, but she's done with him and he sees it.
I tried to make that a little clearer with the line about him not liking his job but also mentioning a possible promotion. He hates his job, but he knows he's making it and for that, he likes it.
I wanted him to want to make things work. Not only do I believe that that's more true to life, but it makes his character (I think) a little better that he's going to try and persevere.
I agree about the flashbacks. I need a better way.
Basically, the catalyst is him deciding what's more important to him: being with his mother or do his job. He picks his job.
Super - another one ?
P16-18 alot of david - to be honest this change of focus confuses me a little
P23 how does vincent know he has blood on his jacket? assume he is watching?
P25 WOAH - what have we here, time travel, etc Didnt he shoot chris? Is this the break into 2? a change of reality? And who the f**k is vincent . A voice inside the head?
Oh did i miss something that we have flashed backwards a la memento?
P29 whoever vincent is, if he exisis, theres alot of conversation with him
p30 vincent sees something that david doesnt? i wonder how this can be?\
P34 ok phone is off and vincent still calls!!
P35/36 - the impression i have is that david is an insane killer with schizphrenic tendaices - i’m just not persuded with the look or shame and sorrow etc, confused maybe.
P36 he killed his girlfreind brutally and in public, he was cool beforehand in the bar, very calculated, these actions dont come across as a remorseful person
P36 your just a voice in my head - too easy for my liking, too much reversed, too quickly
P37 so he drops the bluetooth out - maybe i’m wrong on the head problems, but ti doesnt come across that way, and if i’m right, you dont get rid of them, you know they are part of you
P37 another tiem movement i assume with fade out fade in
P42 - i like this, very memento, twisty, yet simple. |
New story.
I was kind of hoping my logline would make it clear that, well, instead of a straight narrative, we have five. Of course, I wasn't partial to that logline anyway.
Oh, Vincent has his ways.
Let me answer your questions one at a time. Yes. I don't believe so. No. Yes.
Yes, we flashed backwards. This takes place before the story you just read.
Vincent's quite a chatterbox. And, David likes to talk to him.
Yeah, Vincent seems to know what's going on.
*cue dramatic music moment*
This is a toughie to explain. He's not insane or schizophrenic. Instead, he's got Vincent who basically amounts to David's conscience. He's the devil on David's shoulder. He suggested that David should kill Sasha but he really didn't want to, even though he felt Vincent was right (hence the sadness).
He had the last chance to go back and not doing anything but that brief call by Vincent before they left the diner was all the reminder David needed.
I agree, completely. Horrible execution on that line. I'm seriously considering just leaving it vague and up to interpretation.
That's David voluntarily giving up listening to Vincent anymore. While Vincent was not on the phone, David's done with him and refuses to let him in.
Yes, it is. We've shifted stories again.
If only my script had about 1/100th the quality of Memento, we'd actually be getting somewhere.
I thought this was a decent inter woven script but if it lacked anything it was a spine. The cord that connects the parts with a deeper meaning. I appreciate there is a theme of desperation, almost what you would do for the love of others etc, people in desperate situations.
If you recall Memento, we follow the pro tag and hope him to achieve. I feel that one story should be drip feed throughout to bind the parts and we see how they all affect it.
maybe the bitter sweet death of randall with a later realisation that he in some way did save his child - would need a readjustment
i think you achieve a lot. well done. |
Thank you, Bill. Once again, I appreciate the kind words. Well, after a lot of careful consideration, I was able to determine that the only deeper meaning to be found in here is love, as you said. "Christmas Story" is a love story. Chris loves his job (despite thinking it sucks) and it gets him killed. David loves Sasha and it gets him killed. Sasha loves money and it gets her killed. Randall loves his family and it gets him killed. Jason loves Sasha and it gets him arrested for three murders. He probably wouldn't get the death penality, but he'll die in prison.
P42 not wholly sure why sasha is asking him whether he’s cool about killing
P42 Matthews history lesson - seems a bit odd
P46 maybe its me, or thte fact i am reading this the next day, but i’m trying to remeber who jason was, arh now i remeber the sant claus from outside
P48 jason killing a clerk for money??
P49 sasha responding about jason - seesm unlikely she would make an opinion to Matthew |
I'm going to go deeper into this on a re-write but basically, Sasha has seen too many movies. She believes that she hires this hitman and he's going to be overly cool like they're portrayed so she wants to act like a badass but when she meets a real one, I basically want him to just completely cut her down.
It was something I really wanted for his character. I mean I can convey it better, although it could always be cut and replaced by something else.
Yes, that's Jason. The Santa from outside.
Yep. However, I'm thinking of cutting most of that sequence because the final story loses a lot of effect when I get that out of the way there.
It basically just goes with her character. She expected one thing and got something completely different and is trying to adjust.
And i’m trying to remember who randall was/is, scrolling back he is the thief caught at the beginning. Could he he more memorable?
P57 was scene with randall and barrett overly long?
P57 - quite like the two cars alongside each other
Dave’s and David - the names wre getting mixed up with me, maybe change one
P61 at this stage i have a real feel for the film Crash, almost more than memento
P67 why wouldnt he say no it wasnt him - he didnt touch the gun, right?
P70 at this point, ilike the story, i like the dynamics but i wonder who i’m following rooting for. I just wondered whether this affect the viewer
P75 love the lottery ticket
P75 still not sure he would tell a bounty hnter waht hes done
P79 detail is a bit on the nose about the orphanage |
No, I don't intend to make Randall any more memorable. If possible, I want him to be less memorable in the opening scene.
I'm sure it could be trimmed in some ways. What part of the script couldn't?
Yeah. Just something small, although there was a plan for a more extended encounter that I wanted it there, but couldn't make it right yet.
Yes, David's name is going to change.
It's any one of those intertwining stories movies.
You're right. He didn't touch the gun. In the original draft, he did but that would just make his character too stupid.
You're rooting for whoever you want to win. Although, as you know, nobody really wins.
Yeah, that was one of the last major tie-ins I had come up with.
That entire story is being blown up and started from scratch.
Agreed.
Also one point - the scenes are well played out but clealry seperated so we are forced to remember what went on - makes it a bit harder to connect
P81 how would you know it is a 1990 Chrysler ? are we just saying dated?
P85 really nice touch the man who shot a woman who framed the father gives the moneya cross BUT the way is too on the nose. Why not “a present from sanata”, thats realsies later. with the chessy was that sanat moment
P86 v nice touch - jason road to damacus moment BUT why is he sanat ? is he just waiting? but why have a can? |
I'd like to believe it will be a lot easier to figure out on screen.
More important than the make and model of the car is whom it belongs to. The point is, to know who's driving what because everyone in the story drives a really old, beater car.
Another scene that needs to be re-written. Then again, the important detail of the story is that they won't be able to cash that lottery ticket. It'll register as stolen and they'll never be able to cash it. So, no happy endings anywhere (although Matthew's is kind of happy).
Deleted scene from the beginning of his story where he recieves a text message from Sasha.
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, May 24th, 2012, 5:59am; Reply: 17
I had lots of notes in the beginning about so many character introductions, and the main character killed by page 15. But after reading it straight through, I now know what that paper Chris picks up in the first ten pages. I thought it was just some random action.
For example, on page 25:
Chris: You ok?
David: Yeah.
Chris: Take it easy next time, all right?
DAvid: Will do.
In this exchange you can cut out "You,ok?" and "Yeah". The second exchange kind of mirrors the first exchange. So cut one and keep the other. No need to repeat the same thing. It's even more apparent in this script because you repeat certain scenes later down the line, and this superflous chit chat slows down your narrative and dialogue flow.
Also, there's a bunch of unnecessary action. For example, on page 81:
Abby and Kasey get out of the car.
Kasey walks to the diner.
Abby walks towards Jason.
Kasey turns back, stands by Abby.
Four lines could be condensed to "Abby and Kasey exit the car. They walk towards Jason." I don't see any reason why you'd split a simple action into four action lines. It's stuff like this you have to watch out for in this kind of narrative you're trying to write. |
Well, Reginald, I'm proud that by the end of the story, I made it clear what the paper Chris stepped on was. Kidding. I wanted to try and balance that line of spelling everything out versus letting the audience solve a couple of things. I fell in between the negatives of both, I think.
I must say, that out of all the lines and actions you could've chosen in this script, you picked two that were actually quite important.
In the first one, their motivations are different. Chris, due to being a cop, is likely to ask someone if they're all right following an accident. David, on the other hand, runs into the last person he wants to see and gives short, curt answers to get away from him as fast as possible without drawing too much extra attention to himself.
In the second one, Kasey and Abby have different goals. Kasey's is to go inside and get ready for their dinner. Abby's is to go see Santa. They get out. Kasey goes to her destination but Abby decides she wants something else and Kasey, being a good mother, goes where her daughter does. The way you would have me write it is to imply their plan was to go see Santa in the first place.
pg 14 - Change the diner name or David's name. Too closely related to each other. Also, the diner is quite an important place in the script. Try to find a more memorable name for it. How about "Happy Days"? It's a 50's theme and kind of ironic with what goes on in and around that diner.
pg 42 Matthew's monologue: You have an extra space between "put... out"
pg 70 keans should be leans?
I'm a Tarantino fan so I like what you're doing here. Also, this story looks low budget so you might get some indie prods. interested in this, as there's always somebody looking for the next Pulp Fiction. Good luck. |
David's name is being changed. It's one of my stable of names that, for all intents and purposes, is a placeholder. The diner name, however, will stay as Dave's unless having the name changed becomes a dealbreaker. I mean, the important thing to remember is that nothing happens in the diner itself. It's a very plain, ordinary place.
Nice catch on the double space. That would be the stupid spacebar on my laptop sticking like it sometimes does.
I don't know why spellcheck didn't catch that. Unless keans is a word, but none that I've heard before.
I am glad that you liked it and yes, it could be filmed on an extremely low budget. $500,000 easy if you wanted all nobodies. $2-3 million if you want a couple familiar names.
I had to force myself to read a christmas script as I am not a big fan of seasonal stories (No i'm not a grinch) but the logline certainly isn't Ho Ho Ho!
I love out of synch scripts as the payoff at the end as the stories interconnect and twist together throughout is a great reward for those who can get their head around non linear. The only problem that comes with non-linear is sometimes you have to go back and re-read a section to fully understand it and this takes you out of the story. However, you pulled it off really well!
It's funny, people say that we should swrite realistic dialogue, but in my experience people DO say "Hi, How are you" "You ok?" "yeah" "Thanks" but when we put them in, people say that it's unnecessary chit-chat lol!
I can see why you put them in and what you are doing here, these people are all dealing with serious issues, when their minds are so filled with plots, murder, hit men, poverty and family problems, that they haven't got the processing power to come up with witty one liners and engaging dialogue.
I felt something for all of the characters and understood their direction as the stories unfolded. It was like Magnolia if firected by QT for me though of course, no one can replciate his dialogue though we keep trying lol!
There are some lines that can be cut but overall I never felt bogged down and always had asense that a line was in there for a reason. The story(s) flowed for me and they wove together very nicely.
An ambitious script but I think you pulled it off!
I knew straight away when the first SUPER came up that we were going to be looking at a few different shorts taht made one whole so didn't even make any structure notes. I knew they'd come together later on. It is quite depressing though but any emotional response is a good one. |
I know exactly what you mean about these holiday-themed scripts. Typically, they're a chore, although I imagine mine is a chore to read, too. I like out of synch stories, too, but like you said, that have to pay off. I mean, there has to be a reason to them to be made that way.
Well, I will agree with the people who say some of the lines can be cut. I mean, there's realistic dialogue and there's boring dialogue. I try to avoid the boring but the trade-off is that it sounds movie-ish on a consistent basis.
Well, I'm glad that you were able to feel something for each of them, although I think I need to solidify their reactions a lot more, to get a better reaction from the readers. Well, if I had even a fraction of their skill, I think I'd be doing a much better script than this. But, we all start somewhere, I suppose.
Yeah, I tried to give most of the lines and actions a purpose (as they should be) but that's an art that very few people (least of all myself) have been able to get down to a mastery.
Originally, I wasn't going to have the supers. I was going to rely on music and the snowfall to tell the story but I got some info that doing the music wasn't a particularly good plan, despite it being a spec, so I removed that and replaced it with supers. I am glad it got some kind of emotional response, though.
Okay, to tell you the truth, somewhere near the end, I got lost on which character was which. I'm pretty sure it's only me, though? But this isn't a problem, as there would be no confusion on screen. It's not that I had no clue what was going on, it's just it was a lot of characters to digest. I understood 90% of the story (I think ;D).
I am a major fan of these types of movies, I just love it how everything comes together. Not Pulp Fiction style like everybody is mentioning, but Alejandro González Iñárritu style. His first three movies Amores Perros, 21 Grams and Babel, were really well made. Kudos go to Guillermo Arriaga who wrote all three of them, and on youtube, you can see his interviews where he talks about how he structured the story if you're interested.
Anyway, I think you've done a great job bringing everything together. The characters were obviously well thought out and cutting them would make major plot holes in the story. A great thing about this story was that everything was wrapped up, and no characters were left without a story. When Randall commits suicide, that really got me, so great job on that.
I think you've nailed the low budget here, as this could be easily filmed on no more than 2 million. Not including the cars and the end, you only have, I think 2 locations? Many producers will be interested in this. But because of this, the story was a little bland for me, it just needed some spice. Sure, people were shot, but it just wasn't enough for me. That's not bad in anyway, even good because it makes the story low budget.
People seemed to think that there was too much dialogue. I agree, but I don't think it was bad. With this type of story, I think it really needs it, as it follows the life of people. Don't cut IMO.
I heard you wrote this several times but your computer kept having a bitch each time? |
To be honest, I'm surprised it took that long for confusion to set in. Well, 90% is a friendly-enough number.
I will clarify this. The movie whose style "Christmas Story" follows closest is "11:14" (2003).
Yeah, it took a lot of planning to find a way to mostly avoid plot holes, although there were a couple I wasn't able to clear up before putting this last in. Seems like everyone liked Randall and his death. After all, when the story was over, he was probably the second nicest guy in the script (behind Matthew) so that's probably why.
The story is incredibly bland. I worked so hard to make sure the timing worked out that I forgot to actually put in an interesting story. Whoops. However, I had been thinking while I was writing this that it offers a good directing opportunity with lots of interesting visuals so there's always that.
Yeah, there was a little too much talking, especially in "Nothing Important Happened Today" and "Down Payment", the B-story, naturally. There was just no way around it.
Yeah. My fucking laptop kept erasing and corrupting my file. Eventually, I saved it in so many ways that it became virtually impossible to lose again. I just wish I'd thought of that years ago.
Page 1: Chris Dejesus? Strange last name. ;D
Page 3: “Was I unclear? look” Not sure if it exists, at least I can't do it. ;D
Page 6: "DAVE’S" is the name of the diner? Or is that just what the characters call the place?
"The diner is empty except for an aged woman in a green and red apron, MAGGIE DEJESUS (62), behind the counter and a MOTHER and DAUGHTER sitting in a booth by the window." Had to read that a few times.
"Maggie is writing in a little flipbook." Could easily eliminate the "ing" and "is" in that sentence.
Page 8: "Bald" Hmm... Guess it should be relevant later on.
Page 10: Guessing Dave was the name of his dead father?
Page 11: "He slams on the brakes, watches as the car slows. He looks back at the diner." Watches his own car slow? Or watches the Diner?
Page 13: "(Didn’t expect that)" Cut it IMO.
Page 21: How big is the present, again?
Page 22: He was awfully calm about killing someone...
Page 57: A missing comma in the first sentence of the Alliance slug.
Page 59: Knick knacks doesn't seem very specific.
Page 65: Man, did I lose track of the characters. ;D I thought Jason was Randall cause of the santa outfit. :-/
Page 72: He knew her name? If she had a name tag on, it should be mentioned.
Page 77: Joseph?? Who's Joseph??? ;D ;D
Page 99: Think you mean Heather? |
One of my oldest names. I used it for a different purpose but it grew on me so I kept using it.
All the looks I mentioned are things I've seen and know can be done, but I have no way of properly describing them.
Dave's is the diner. I didn't realize that for the longest time that Dave's and David were so close to each other.
Yeah, my prose is probably the least developed aspect of my writing.
I was going to get rid of "ing", but I wanted her to have been writing before the scene started, so it would be weird if I wrote "writes" there because I thought it would seem like she started when that line began.
Pay-offs... Those damn pay-offs.
Negative. Interesting thought, though, but I'm not going to run with it.
I'll clear that up.
I'll make that line work better in the prose.
About the size of a shoebox.
That Vincent is a hell of a bad influence.
Those damn missing commas.
It doesn't, but we only visit the house for less than three minutes of the story.
Two Santas. One is good Santa and the other is bad Santa.
I had it originally, but thought it seemed like a waste of a line, when it can be filmed easily enough.
Yeah, the Joseph and Michelle mistakes. I thought I fixed them all, but several people have called me out on them.
This was very cool. The interweaving of the stories worked for me, but some of the dialog needs clipped. A little too long, and I know, because I have the same problem myself with my writing. :)
This felt a lot like a GUy Ritchie piece. He's always having something happen, then stepping back to see the interplaying scene. I like that, and you did it great.
Sharpen up the dialog, and this will be a-one! |
I'm glad you liked it, Steven. Yeah, it's very talky and some of it needs to be cut and most of it needs to be improved. No question.
Posted by: nawazm11, May 24th, 2012, 8:24am; Reply: 18
I will clarify this. The movie whose style "Christmas Story" follows closest is "11:14" (2003).
|
!!! I'm writing a screenplay with the exact same storyline as that movie... :-/ Never even heard about it before... Let's just say I never saw it ::).
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, May 24th, 2012, 8:31am; Reply: 19
!!! I'm writing a screenplay with the exact same storyline as that movie... :-/ Never even heard about it before... Let's just say I never saw it ::). |
Hey, it's been nearly a decade. I think "11:14" needs a remake. Or, maybe we could just reboot the franchise. What happens to Duffy and Buzzy? Do they do a Bonnie & Clyde?
Posted by: khamanna, May 30th, 2012, 6:47pm; Reply: 20
Hi Sean,
I'm first 35 pages in.
It's quite interesting - an easy read, and I'm curious about the rest of it.
First ten - too many characters for me. Chris talks to one police officer, then meets a detective, then Jason. Two of these may go, I think. Jason appears one more time and I don't understand who he is and why I should know his name.
What Chris wanted to do (when he asks himself whether he can do it) remains a mystery. It makes me think it was irrelevant to the story. Or was he talking about returning home and facing his mother?
Somehow when he goes I don't feel their struggle and don't understand why he left and what really happened in the first place. I'd expect her to be happy to see him.
You have a slug there INT. DAVE'S - FLASHBACK and I couldn't understand whose flashback it was. IMO you don't even need a flashback there since it just repeats the events that we just saw on screen.
Then you started for David's story. It was quite interesting and a good way to connect the stories. Sacha's death is a culmination of his story. I couldn't believe it somewhat though - he shot her rather carelessly. At the moment we don't know anything about the research he's done on her - so I couldn't buy it. After you told us some - his friend Vincent told him but we don't see or know how he could convince David - it's a big thing and the fact that David relied on his friend's words is not convincing.
But I liked the way it goes overall. Also I liked the dialog, not for once I thought it needs cutting.
Readin on...:)
I'm on page 54. I really liked the way you connected those stories - it's one story, yet you found a very unique way to tell it. I think it's just brilliant. I'm very much interested to read the rest of it. Partly because you have good storytelling skills and due to the way you constructed your script.
Sasha and Matthew's talk was interesting. Parts of it are very good and some of it is strange. Why would she ask him if he did that in the past - she knows he's a professional killer. Also, I don't know who she wants to kill. Have I missed something?
Who she's cheating with on David - is it Jason? Jason is in and out throughout - he seems to be an extra character. If he's Sasha's lover and she's truly cheating on David - we must know for sure - that part is a little unclear. Also, they talked for a long time, I think.
On p54 starts Randall's story. The connection here is not as good as the connection between all the previous ones. I wish it was smoother. There should be a connecting character I think - maybe someone you introduced in your first ten?
In response to this:
Quoted Text I'm confused on your use of carelessly. Did you mean he was careless when he killed her or didn't seem to care that he killed her? His research was extremely brief. He found the stuff then had a talk with "Vincent" who threw out a suggestion that he should get rid of her. |
I mean you could build up to it a little. He doesn't seem jelous enough - he just killed her without knowing for sure.
I finished reading.
I really liked Randall's story and his family.
The only thing, when the cop came to tell Kasey that the ticket is not valid - I didn't get that. I got it only from your description. I thought the cop told Kasey that Randall was the main suspect in a murder case.
Randall's story just flowed.
The rest of it was good too. I think that Kasey and Abby need to have a good ending. If you show a little girl with cancer, then give us hope, you can't take it away. And you have no reason to do so.
Lena - you bring her up again, I think I remember her name from when you introduced Sasha first. I couldn't understand why to have Lena at all. Now I see. I'm still not sure if you need her back there. Why not bring her up here with Jason.
Also, you have Jason in your first ten - don't know if you need him there.
I think your first ten could be better. The rest of the script is much better than first ten.
So, my main concerns are - your first ten, David - he's a bit shallow, Chris's wants - his relations with his mother are vague.
I really really liked the way you connected all these stories. Inspired. great job!
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, June 1st, 2012, 8:30am; Reply: 21
First ten - too many characters for me. Chris talks to one police officer, then meets a detective, then Jason. Two of these may go, I think. Jason appears one more time and I don't understand who he is and why I should know his name. |
I assure you that pretty much the only characters you'll meet in the story, with the exception of two, you meet in the first ten pages. So, it's a lot but I won't be bombarding you with too many more.
What Chris wanted to do (when he asks himself whether he can do it) remains a mystery. It makes me think it was irrelevant to the story. Or was he talking about returning home and facing his mother?
Somehow when he goes I don't feel their struggle and don't understand why he left and what really happened in the first place. I'd expect her to be happy to see him. |
Not home so much as visiting her at work, but yes, that was the idea. I had about a two page diatribe explaining the reasons but I shortened it to the point where I hinted at it. Good enough actors would be able to portray it better than any amount of exposition could, I believe.
You have a slug there INT. DAVE'S - FLASHBACK and I couldn't understand whose flashback it was. IMO you don't even need a flashback there since it just repeats the events that we just saw on screen. |
Agreed. I haven't found a solid way to convey what I want there. But, you're absolutely right about that.
Then you started for David's story. It was quite interesting and a good way to connect the stories. Sacha's death is a culmination of his story. I couldn't believe it somewhat though - he shot her rather carelessly. At the moment we don't know anything about the research he's done on her - so I couldn't buy it. After you told us some - his friend Vincent told him but we don't see or know how he could convince David - it's a big thing and the fact that David relied on his friend's words is not convincing. |
I'm confused on your use of carelessly. Did you mean he was careless when he killed her or didn't seem to care that he killed her? His research was extremely brief. He found the stuff then had a talk with "Vincent" who threw out a suggestion that he should get rid of her. Vincent is not a physical presence. For lack of a better description, he's the devil on David's shoulder; his conscience. David didn't actually want to kill her.
But I liked the way it goes overall. Also I liked the dialog, not for once I thought it needs cutting. |
I'm glad you liked (are liking?) it so far. I think the dialogue needs a bit of cutting and lots of improving, but if that's the worst part of it (which it seems like it is because some things are still too vague), then hopefully a good re-write should go smoothly.
**SPOILERS** (For anyone who hasn't read this yet)
I do want to say, though, that I wanted to write Christmas-based archetypes (the kinds of people you see in Christmas stories). But, I wanted them all to have one small difference that resulted in them having a bad ending. You have the cop who's trying to reconcile with his estranged (insert family member here). But, he decided his job was more important and he got himself killed. You have the guy who found out (or believes) his significant other is unfaithful. Killing her is directly responsible for his death. You have Sasha, his other half, who is not only cheating, but planning on having him killed for his money. Had she called off the hit and left with Jason, both Sasha, the cop and David would've lived. Then, you have the drunk mall Santa who tries to redeem himself. But, instead, he ends up failing miserably and winds up getting arrested for murder and armed robbery, which leads to his suicide. Then, there's Jason who
is an armed robber and murderer but he would've been just as happy being with Sasha because he didn't care about the money. However, at the end when he let himself get arrested, he might be facing the death penalty if they can connect him to the gun because it'll have been shown to kill three people, including a cop who was executed.
Still, my favorite part of the story that I had to tie in was the lottery ticket. You have a guy who robs a store and makes off with one ticket. He finds out later it's a winner and is going to tell his lover but is stopped from doing so. Instead, he gives it away to someone he sees needing it more. The trouble is, that ticket is going to come up as stolen on the night of the robbery and the money won't be paid out. The police will have a nearly impossible task of figuring out who actually robbed the store (because Randall died before admitting to it) and Abby's cancer treatment won't be paid for with the winnings.
I mean, the only person who has a happy ending is "Matthew Winslow". In the end, I didn't want anyone to have a happy ending, but I figured somebody should, but who else was better fit?
**END DIATRIBE**
Posted by: khamanna, June 3rd, 2012, 1:39am; Reply: 22
Done with my notes! I really liked your script:)
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, June 3rd, 2012, 10:44am; Reply: 23
I'm on page 54. I really liked the way you connected those stories - it's one story, yet you found a very unique way to tell it. I think it's just brilliant. I'm very much interested to read the rest of it. Partly because you have good storytelling skills and due to the way you constructed your script. |
I'm glad you enjoyed the way it was set up, Khamanna. Funny thing is, I didn't realize until after the script was finished, but chronologically, for the first four stories, they go in reverse while the fifth story covers the entire timeline.
Sasha and Matthew's talk was interesting. Parts of it are very good and some of it is strange. Why would she ask him if he did that in the past - she knows he's a professional killer. Also, I don't know who she wants to kill. Have I missed something? |
I assure you that I need to blow up that entire story and start over. I'm having the toughest time, trying to actually make it interesting. There's lots of really long, dialogue-based movie scenes out there that I love, but they're written so well, I can't really stack up against them. As for her asking, it was me doing exposition and it came out all wrong. What I was trying to get across was that she was going to have David (her fiancee) killed on a cruise, the month after they're married. Like I said, I have to blow it all up and start from scratch. Luckily, hers is the easiest to do that for.
Who she's cheating with on David - is it Jason? Jason is in and out throughout - he seems to be an extra character. If he's Sasha's lover and she's truly cheating on David - we must know for sure - that part is a little unclear. Also, they talked for a long time, I think. |
Yeah, it's with Jason. Jason's basically the character who experiences the entire thing. That's kind of why his story is the last one so we get the entire picture, although with the exception of a couple small things and conversations, his story is almost white rice.
On p54 starts Randall's story. The connection here is not as good as the connection between all the previous ones. I wish it was smoother. There should be a connecting character I think - maybe someone you introduced in your first ten? |
I really wanted his story to almost stay entirely separate. His character has nothing to do with anything regarding the robbery. He was just another guy who ended up being caught in a bad situation. Although, I am working on another way to connect him in the story, but it would add another small location and I'm not sure I want to do that.
I mean you could build up to it a little. He doesn't seem jelous enough - he just killed her without knowing for sure. |
I do need to improve that a bit. Good call.
I really liked Randall's story and his family.
The only thing, when the cop came to tell Kasey that the ticket is not valid - I didn't get that. I got it only from your description. I thought the cop told Kasey that Randall was the main suspect in a murder case.
I think that Kasey and Abby need to have a good ending. If you show a little girl with cancer, then give us hope, you can't take it away. And you have no reason to do so. |
Everyone seems to really like Randall's story the best. Isn't that so ironic? I'm really happy about that, though.
Actually, the cop wasn't telling her that the ticket wasn't valid. He was telling her that Randall committed suicide during the night. I wanted that sequence to be silent so you didn't hear what they say, but then I added in the news report in the morning. I'll try to clarify it better.
I, honestly, don't know how to provide them with a good ending. Kasey's husband and Abby's father is dead. Kasey has no job and a child with cancer. I could never put this aside actually in the script but you could always imagine that after hearing about their story (on the news or something), people might donate money to them to help pay for her treatment? I mean, I wrote myself into a place where there is no chance of a happy ending for them (at least by the time the script is finished).
Lena - you bring her up again, I think I remember her name from when you introduced Sasha first. I couldn't understand why to have Lena at all. Now I see. I'm still not sure if you need her back there. Why not bring her up here with Jason.
Also, you have Jason in your first ten - don't know if you need him there.
I think your first ten could be better. The rest of the script is much better than first ten.
So, my main concerns are - your first ten, David - he's a bit shallow, Chris's wants - his relations with his mother are vague.
I really really liked the way you connected all these stories. Inspired. great job! |
Lena was a really subtle... I don't want to say love interest, because she wasn't, but more that Jason really admired that she takes the time out to help other people. In his heart, Jason is not a bad person and he liked that about her.
I need him in the sense that he is out front of the diner when the story starts. He's not exceptionally important, but he is a bit. He's curious why David left with Sasha then came back to the diner without her.
I would agree that the first ten pages (or really the entire first story) is the weakest and most unnecessary. The irony is that when the idea originally came up, the first story was actually going to be an OWC entry. Then, I just asked the question, "Who is this guy who killed Chris?" and the ball went rolling.
Yeah, David's story has problems, too. I was actually going to write two versions of this script. The one that has Vincent and the one that doesn't. The one that doesn't just features David being a sad sack, like Randall, for the entire script.
Chris implies his wants, I thought. I believe I could make them clearer, but he wanted to reconcile with his mom.
Yeah, their relationship. I had it detailed in the script why he left and why she doesn't want to see him but it was just exposition that droned on and on. I assure you that the first ten pages were even worse when that was in there versus when it wasn't.
Thank you, Khamanna. I'm glad you liked it overall and thank you very much for reading.
Posted by: CoopBazinga, June 18th, 2012, 11:36am; Reply: 24
Hey Sean,
So I’m continuing on with the 7WC’s this week and decided on your script next. Upon reading the logline this appears to be a type of “Crash” story, I obviously mean the (2004) Paul Haggis movie and not the David Cronenberg movie from the 90’s.
These are the notes I took during the read:
P.1 “SILVIA and THOMAS” I’ll edit this if need be but I wonder if these two cops will appear again? If not then I think “Two COPS” would have sufficed.
“Chris turns the siren off” He forgot the lights, his going to run his battery down.
“Chris walks past several of the police cars” There was only three right? Why not mix it up with some other visual of the liquor store or weather, maybe some Christmas decorations covering the front of the store. It’s just that you’ve already mentioned the police cars before. Just a thought.
“Dispatch said you caught him.” Why was he driving with the lights flashing and siren blaring then?
“You hate people, James?” This came out the blue, it felt out of place to me.
P.2 “INT. MAGNOLIA LIQUOR – CONTINUOUS” I wouldn’t consider this continuous but maybe that’s just me.
P.3 “You sure you don’t want me...?” Think this would read better as just “you sure?” or change “want” for “need”
A whole segment here could be cut when Chris leaves the store.
P.4 I don’t know about all the talking to himself in the police car… didn’t feel realistic to me.
“Frustrated” Why’s he frustrated? It’s not like somebody’s there to rule his head and tails game… he could just say that was tails so I don’t have to go.
“EXT. DAVE’S - FRONT – CONTINUOUS” I’m guessing this is the diner but it could be confusing to the reader… might want to clarify this.
P.5 “a man in a short sleeve shirt” I wasn’t sure about this before the character’s intro… think this could be avoided and it would tighten your action.
P.6 Yeah, there’s more of this character description here before the intro, it seems to be your style of writing.
“Maggie is” Okay just a pet peeve of mine, the use of “is” when easily avoidable.
“Chris takes his hat off, hangs it atop a coat rack next to the front door” Why didn’t he hang it up when he walked in? He walks to the counter, back to front door, and then back to the counter.
P.7 “A black 1987 Chevy Camaro IROC-Z leaves the diner.” A bit awkward for me and does the exact car model matter?
“looks” I’m at page 7 and have seen this word a lot already. Do a ctrl-d and see if you can change a few of these… plenty of different words to use.
P.8 “KASEY EDWARDS” why not introduce them when first entering the diner? It’s just consistency for me because you intro’d the cops in the beginning with names and they didn’t even speak.
“Maggie sets her notepad down” She also set it down on page 6 so either you need to add something about her picking it back up or cut it altogether.
P.10 Wonder if you need and INSERT: PHOTO here when showing the photo… not actually too sure myself but something to think about.
“INT. DAVE’S (FLASHBACK)” It’s probably just me because I known to be stupid at times but this had me asking “Who’s Dave?” for a second. Just saying that if the diner’s name isn’t too important it might be worth changing the name for less confusion.
P.11 “David, who smiles nervously, is in the driver’s seat.”
Think this could be reworded for the better.
P.12 David is apologising a lot here which I find convenient when Chris wished he had said previously.
P.13 “I was going to see her at the hospital. To see her.” This didn’t read right. I would get rid of that second “to see her”
P.14 I personally love this shift of story to David now, think you’ve done this very well and kept me interested with this sudden development.
P.17 Okay, I’m guessing this is before what just happened with Chris? David seems very cool for someone who’s just left an officer dead on the side of the road and has blood dripping from his trunk.
What’s with all dialogue here?
“There’s enough caffeine in there to stop a horse.” Thought he said sugar?
P.20 “You always hate on my car.” Think this should be “You’ve always hated my car.” I know what you’re saying but I don’t think it reads right.
P.22 “handgun” It was a “S&W Colt .45 ACP.” before, I do like consistency. :)
Also, shit man! David didn’t give Sasha time to explain, he’s one impatient guy.
P.23 “David runs back to the car, unlocks the trunk.” When did he walk away from the trunk? I thought Sasha died in his arms by the trunk?
What’s going on with Vincent? Is he watching with a pair of binoculars from the across the street? He just seems to know everything about this while being on the phone? How would he know his jacket is covered in blood?
P.24 “David glances at Abby and Kasey at a booth to David’s right.”
I’d tighten this line for a smoother read.
P.25 “David collides with Chris.” Was just going to mention that when you enter a continuous scene like this, don’t really think you need to say “David” Could just be “Collides with Chris” Little things like this could help tighten the action.
P.28 “He runs back to the car, hops inside.” What happened to the backyard and chain link fence? He had to go through them to get to the shed but not on the way back? Maybe it’s not important so why show him going through those steps to get there? Just a thought.
P.36 “He comes to his senses, drops the gun. He reaches down, grabs his license and registration from the snow, runs to his car.” This confused me a bit when I first read it but why go to the trouble of grabbing your license and reg yet leave the gun with your fingerprints on beside the officer… seems stupid.
Also the Vincent character is confusing at the moment, he has to be a voice in his head because of the information he knows. What confuses me most is when he called in the diner, Sasha heard the call and asked who it was? If that’s the case then how can this be in his head? I’m sure all will become clear as I read on.
Anyway, will finish it here tonight as it’s late but I’m enjoying it so far. I honestly didn’t think this would be my type of story but it’s very intriguing and I’m looking forward to see how you bring all the pieces together.
Also the writing is tight and fast to read, don’t think I spotted one typo which is impressive. If I had a complaint it would be repetitive word use, “all right” springs to mind but this more of a personal thing and nothing that harmed the read.
I’ll give some feedback on the story as a whole once finished.
Hope this helps. :)
Steve
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, June 18th, 2012, 1:31pm; Reply: 25
Steve,
Thank you very much for giving Christmas Story a look-see. I'll be honest that I'm this close to asking you to stop reading the script because a shorter (and hopefully better) re-write is on the way. I just didn't want you to read something of a lesser quality if there were a better option. **I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE ABOUT THE NEXT STORY. IT IS HELL TO READ AND I REALLY FEEL BAD ABOUT ANYONE WHO HAD TO TRUDGE THROUGH IT...** However, as for your notes (I'll be skipping certain things as some questions you have are likely answered by the time the story is complete):
“Dispatch said you caught him.” Why was he driving with the lights flashing and siren blaring then? |
Several people have mentioned this and they (including you) are entirely correct. I've changed that.
“You hate people, James?” This came out the blue, it felt out of place to me. |
Virtually all of the annoying banter in the opening scene is gone.
P.2 “INT. MAGNOLIA LIQUOR – CONTINUOUS” I wouldn’t consider this continuous but maybe that’s just me. |
I'm self-taught at screenwriting. Breaking myself of the continuous is a complete pain in the balls but I'm getting better at it. Mini slugs and I just aren't gelling yet.
“Frustrated” Why’s he frustrated? It’s not like somebody’s there to rule his head and tails game… he could just say that was tails so I don’t have to go. |
He knows he has to (and in some ways, he wants to).
P.5 “a man in a short sleeve shirt” I wasn’t sure about this before the character’s intro… think this could be avoided and it would tighten your action. |
It would, but it's a very important detail. You've read to the point where you find out why. I do know that the wording is bad, and I think that's what you're telling me, which is right.
P.6 Yeah, there’s more of this character description here before the intro, it seems to be your style of writing. |
Sadly, yes. That's a habit I won't ever be able to break.
“Chris takes his hat off, hangs it atop a coat rack next to the front door” Why didn’t he hang it up when he walked in? He walks to the counter, back to front door, and then back to the counter. |
I thought I had him take it off as soon as he walked in. I must've screwed that up, but that is what I intended to do.
P.7 “A black 1987 Chevy Camaro IROC-Z leaves the diner.” A bit awkward for me and does the exact car model matter? |
This is something people were mentioning a lot. The short and sweet version of it is really simple. I believe you can tell a lot about a person by the car they drive. Every character in this story (with the possible exception of Matthew, who doesn't drive) is a loser in one form or another. Hence, they all drive beaters. So, while the specific model doesn't matter so much, the characters' vehicles will intersect and I needed to be able to differentiate them for the reader.
“looks” I’m at page 7 and have seen this word a lot already. Do a ctrl-d and see if you can change a few of these… plenty of different words to use. |
Working on that in the re-write. It's another hard habit to break. I learned to write with this belief that the screenplay is bare bones. You read through it as quickly and simply as possible. After the script comes all the flashy stuff. However, I've been told by people that my writing is so boring and plain that it nearly puts people to sleep. Have to work on that.
P.8 “KASEY EDWARDS” why not introduce them when first entering the diner? It’s just consistency for me because you intro’d the cops in the beginning with names and they didn’t even speak. |
That was me directing without directing. It was to imply that they're in the shot without being the focus of the shot. Then, when they get introduced officially. I'll look into fixing that, as well.
P.10 Wonder if you need and INSERT: PHOTO here when showing the photo… not actually too sure myself but something to think about. |
I believe you're right. It's a little flashy and drawing attention to itself but that's probably the point. I'll make the appropriate change.
“INT. DAVE’S (FLASHBACK)” It’s probably just me because I known to be stupid at times but this had me asking “Who’s Dave?” for a second. Just saying that if the diner’s name isn’t too important it might be worth changing the name for less confusion. |
Nah, you're not stupid. A couple of people got tripped up on that. Besides, I wrote that scene horribly and have fixed it. As for the name, unless it becomes a dealbreaker, I'm likely to keep it and just change David's name.
P.12 David is apologising a lot here which I find convenient when Chris wished he had said previously. |
Coulda, woulda, shoulda...
P.13 “I was going to see her at the hospital. To see her.” This didn’t read right. I would get rid of that second “to see her” |
That was intentional. David's got something to be nervous about and is mixing up his words.
P.14 I personally love this shift of story to David now, think you’ve done this very well and kept me interested with this sudden development. |
I appreciate that you think I did it well. There were lots of people getting tripped up. The easy way to remember is each SUPER starts a new story. And, each story takes place before the story that preceeded it.
What’s going on with Vincent? Is he watching with a pair of binoculars from the across the street? He just seems to know everything about this while being on the phone? How would he know his jacket is covered in blood? |
In this version, I did David and Vincent's relationship all wrong. In the re-write, I'm subduing a lot and, against my better judgment, leaving it more vague. In actual fact, though, Vincent is David's conscience; the devil on his shoulder. Vincent does not actually exist.
P.36 “He comes to his senses, drops the gun. He reaches down, grabs his license and registration from the snow, runs to his car.” This confused me a bit when I first read it but why go to the trouble of grabbing your license and reg yet leave the gun with your fingerprints on beside the officer… seems stupid. |
I realized after I sent the script in that I hadn't matched the scenes. David was supposed to take the gun with him. That was been corrected in the re-write.
What confuses me most is when he called in the diner, Sasha heard the call and asked who it was? If that’s the case then how can this be in his head? I’m sure all will become clear as I read on. |
This is another case of what I want to happen not happening. You hear the ringtone because it's from David's perspective, but the phone doesn't actually ring. Sasha was only supposed to know he was on the phone because he was talking to someone with the Bluetooth in his ear. That was also been fixed in the re-write.
Anyway, will finish it here tonight as it’s late but I’m enjoying it so far. I honestly didn’t think this would be my type of story but it’s very intriguing and I’m looking forward to see how you bring all the pieces together |
Hopefully when you do finish it, the pieces will come together in a satisfying package.
Also the writing is tight and fast to read, don’t think I spotted one typo which is impressive. If I had a complaint it would be repetitive word use, “all right” springs to mind but this more of a personal thing and nothing that harmed the read. |
I'm glad that it's at least going fast. And, any complaints are going to harm the read. I just hope to have a better draft available... whenever I finish it. Hopefully by the 22nd.
-Sean
Posted by: CoopBazinga, June 19th, 2012, 9:44am; Reply: 26
Hey Sean,
Continuing on today. I see that you’ve nearly finished a revision but I hope you don’t mind me carrying on.
However, as for your notes (I'll be skipping certain things as some questions you have are likely answered by the time the story is complete) |
Yeah I can understand that, I just take down observations as I read and know a lot could be explained later on in the story.
These are the notes as I read:
P.36 “at a reasonable speed ”Superfluous detail IMO and was is a reasonable speed?
P.37 “David drops the Bluetooth out the window.” Did he wind it down? I guess he did with Chris earlier.
Wasn’t a fan of Matthew’s intro but I’ve covered this already… will leave it alone now.
P.39 Again, this event with Matthew and Sasha precedes the other but I think it’s silly for Sasha to meet Matthew at the same diner as the one she’s about to meet David. I’m just thinking that Maggie could mention something like “Where’s the other guy gone?” Maybe I’m over thinking this.
P.40 Nobody wants to order anything in this diner, I’m surprised Maggie’s up for promotion because they hardly seem to be racking in the money.
“Matthew checks the watch again. 6:06PM.” Would we be able to see a little pocket watch? Maybe some transition or dialogue could put the time across if an important detail which I’m guessing it is… he’s looked at his watch three times now.
He only just gave her the price… seems kinda harsh to be asking for the money already.
P.41/42 Another pet peeve of mine, dialogue going over two pages here which looks messy IMO.
P.42 “put out” An extra space between part of the dialogue here.
Although interesting to hear, I don’t think this history lesson is moving the story forward here and that was one massive block of dialogue.
“How long did that go on for?”
Is Sasha hiring a hitman? This would normally be a big deal for people, hiring some random person to kill someone.
It’s just she seems so calm and is asking questions about the term “blood money” Isn’t she worried about David arriving?
P.43 And again here asking his name? What person would ask a hitman their name?
P.44 “It’s just my first time doing this... kind of thing.” It didn’t feel like it… she was cool as a cucumber. Maybe she needs to be more nervous in this scene but that’s probably something you’ve worked on in the rewrite.
“What did you learn?” Think “study” would be better than “learn”
P.45 “Why are you being such a prick?” Maybe he’s always a prick. She’s just met him right?
I have to say that I’m confused by Sasha’s reaction here, not only is this a professional killer but also what’s she expecting? To talk about the weather or what he’s up too on Christmas day? Just doesn’t ring true here.
“Seventeen. So far.” I doubt a professional would reveal how many people they’ve killed.
P.46 “Your money’s here.” That’s a neat trick. I didn’t see her do anything after he revealed the amount, no phone call or anything… maybe I missed it?
“walks” Three times in quick succession, might want to mix it up here.
P.47 Okay, this exchange between Matthew and Jason has me confused? Is this the money Matthew’s been waiting on?
P.48 So Jason killed a clerk for money which I’m guessing is the liquor store at the beginning? I don’t think you would get 37,000 grand from a liquor store.
P.51 So I’m left really confused after this scene with Matthew which I thought was a tad long to be honest.
What was with the entire “have you done it like this before?” and “never a cruise ship” I thought he was hired to kill someone? Isn’t it the same where ever you are? Then Matthew seems concerned about what Sasha’s going to tell her fiancé? Why does he care?
I have been left with a lot of questions now so hoping the answers will come as I go on.
P.52 “Maggie pulls out a small notebook, writes in it.” Does Maggie need to write this down… there are no other customers in the diner and its just one cup of coffee?
P.53 “David walks in, looks around.” So when did Abby and Kasey enter the diner? They were there when David arrived earlier but not now or at least the diner was empty at one point during this scene. Might want to add something about them entering the diner.
P.59 “(Into phone)” First redundant parenthetical I’ve seen. Think what you have in the action is enough to understand he’s on the phone.
“knick knacks” I’m curious to know what this is?
P.62 I know I mentioned it before but you do need to look at some of the slugs and the use of “continuous” when it’s not appropriate.
There have been quite a few instances of stopping at red lights now. I don’t know if this would play out well on screen.
P.64 “Randall tosses the phone in the passenger’s seat.” Doesn’t read right… think “in” should be “onto” and just “passenger” for a smoother read.
P.65 “Just then” Unnecessary IMO, could just start the sentence with Jason.
“out front” Same here, unneeded.
Randall’s chasing Jason? This surprises me and it doesn’t seem like the kind of thing his character would do.
“Silenced handgun” Two guns? It makes me wonder why he shot the revolver and not the silenced gun? Also again why would you throw away the gun you’ve used with your finger prints on?
“Jason backs out of the parking lot” How do we know he backed out of a parking lot? He went around the corner?
“A police car comes down the street, spots Randall kneeling in
the snow.” This reads awkward IMO.
P.66 “INT. POLICE CAR – CONTINUOUS” Maybe you could use the INT/EXT technique here. I’m not a massive fan of this but I think would work well here with the conversation between James and Randall where one is in the car and the other outside unless they are both in the car?
“Sighs” There’s also been a lot of sighing by the characters… something to look out for.
P.67 “Randy” I don’t think a officer would shorten the suspects name in a situation like this.
P.68 “The police car drives away.” I’d reword this to James as we’re inside the car.
Okay, think this is as a good place as any to finish for today, should wrap up the final act tomorrow.
This middle act was a hit and miss for me, I liked Randall’s story but couldn’t get into the Sasha one with Matthew, it was a bit confusing I’m sorry to say.
Hope this helps even though you’re already about finished on the revision.
Steve
Posted by: CoopBazinga, June 21st, 2012, 9:29am; Reply: 27
Hey Sean,
Continuing on today and hoping to finish.
Let the notes begin:
P.70 “keans on the counter” should be leans.
“They share a look.” I thought she was reading a magazine?
“Just then” Again, I feel this superfluous.
P.71 If Heather is just a clerk, I question her actions. Nobody wants to die for a low-paid cashier job.
P.72 “Come on, Heather” How does he know her name?
“to himself” Don’t think you need this, who else would he be talking to.
At least I know now why he had two guns.
P.73 “the handgun from his coat” But he left it on the passenger seat, how did it appear in his jacket?
P.76 These scenes feel very repetitive here and other than the lottery ticket add nothing new to the mix.
P.77 “probably ignoring Jason” Probably?
“Joseph gets a good look” Who’s Joseph? Think you mean Jason.
P.80 Not too keen on this Lena, Jason exchange… Isn’t he worried about the gun he threw away around the corner or the police looking for him? He doesn’t know that Randall’s been taken in as a suspect.
P.85 I guess it wouldn’t be a Christmas story without the traditional good will gesture by someone. It does come off a bit cheesy to me though and I’m still wondering why a Santa Claus who collects for charity and gives away money to strangers is robbing a liquor store in the first place?
P.87 More repetitive action here with David and Chris, it doesn’t reveal anything new to the story.
P.89 “The paper reads” again wonder if you need and insert here?
P.90 “forces him into the tree” How? He was already leaning against it. And would you do this to a professional killer… well I bloody wouldn’t.
P.91 “Yeah, I guess you did” This doesn’t make sense, should it be “I guess I did” or in the previous line, it should be “I already got your money”
P.92 He paid all that money for a gun and a folder? He already had a gun.
Why arm the gun in front of the girl? He could of walked around a corner or gone back to his car first.
P.95 “MATTHEW’S HOUSE – LIVING ROOM – LATER” I don’t think “later” should be used here as we’re in a completely different scene.
P.96 What’s happened to Randall? A police officer has come to the door saying “sorry” He was arrested right?
P.99 Randall committed suicide… why?
“Michelle Harrington” I thought she was called Heather?
I going to give a lot of credit for this one, to pull all those individual stories and characters together is no easy task. It must have taken you some time to plan/write out a treatment for this one. Of course it did become a bit confusing especially in the second half but this might have been down to reading it over a few days and it probably wouldn’t be as confusing on screen.
So overall this was a bit of a hit and miss for me. I liked certain characters and their stories but others just fell a bit short.
Let’s take Chris’s story for staters and I liked this opening and introduction to the diner BTW. I also enjoyed the troubled relationship between him and his mother which was well played out but after he died, it was unresolved for me and I was kinda hoping there was going to be some exposition scene near the end with his mother about their past.
I liked David’s tale but I didn’t understand it, same goes for Sasha, Jason and Matthew which was all included into the one plot. I just couldn’t put the pieces together for this one and for me, this story needs to be made more clearer for the reader to know what’s happening. All the dialogue felt very vague and at times it went completely off topic, especially between Matthew and Sasha.
Randall was probably the most likeable character and his story was actually sad upon the ending although I don’t feel his character was the suicide type. When you’ve got a young daughter ill and a wife who needs you to help pull the family through, I don’t think he would give up that easily. Also I don’t think the cops had much of a case once they investigated but lets leave that for another day.
I think this shows immense storytelling skills though because like I said, it’s no easy task to bring all this story elements together. I think for most part you’ve done an excellent job but there were one or two areas that need to be more clarified and revealed to help the reader follow this story.
I want to quickly mention the writing which was pretty top notch throughout and very clean, it was a fast read.
So I know this feedback is most likely redundant now because you’ve just about completed the rewrite but nonetheless hope it helps you in someway going forward with it.
Looking forward to taking a browse at the revised version, I gather you’re intended on posting it?
Good work and congrats on completing the 7WC. :)
Steve
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, June 21st, 2012, 10:03am; Reply: 28
Damn you, Steve... And, I mean that in a completely friendly way.
I had
just finished an appropriate explanation for your second act review and then you finish with a highly-detailed review of act three as well. Well, I'm going to post my reply to act two and begin work on your final review.
I just want you to know that I really appreciate such an in-depth review. I know all the time it takes to do. All the reviews from everyone were very helpful and inciteful.
_______________________________________________________________________________
P.36 “at a reasonable speed ”Superfluous detail IMO and was is a reasonable speed? |
It's me and my terrible ways of describing that he's not in any particular hurry.
P.37 “David drops the Bluetooth out the window.” Did he wind it down? I guess he did with Chris earlier. |
He never rolled it up after Chris pulled him over.
Wasn’t a fan of Matthew’s intro but I’ve covered this already… will leave it alone now. |
Yes, please. Everything that's wrong with "Down Payment", I knew going in. I'm in the process of re-working it but it's a ginormous pain in the balls.
P.39 Again, this event with Matthew and Sasha precedes the other but I think it’s silly for Sasha to meet Matthew at the same diner as the one she’s about to meet David. I’m just thinking that Maggie could mention something like “Where’s the other guy gone?” Maybe I’m over thinking this. |
They mention in dialogue that it was David's call to meet at the diner. However, you won't know that anymore because I didn't like the line delivery, so I cut it.
P.40 Nobody wants to order anything in this diner, I’m surprised Maggie’s up for promotion because they hardly seem to be racking in the money. |
Ah, but they're making a killing in coffee sales. Also, Kasey and Abby were going to order. And, I think you got confuzzled by my awful dialogue. Chris was the one getting the promotion, not Maggie.
“Matthew checks the watch again. 6:06PM.” Would we be able to see a little pocket watch? Maybe some transition or dialogue could put the time across if an important detail which I’m guessing it is… he’s looked at his watch three times now. |
The timing was there more for me. I wrote the feature with the intention (although no likelihood) of directing it myself.
He only just gave her the price… seems kinda harsh to be asking for the money already. |
The price is different. The money he's asking for is for materials and things like that. That's what I hoped to get across with the title "Down Payment". It's like a retainer with a lawyer.
Although interesting to hear, I don’t think this history lesson is moving the story forward here and that was one massive block of dialogue. |
In my head, it had bearing on the story. Basically, he was equating himself with the "crimps" and Sasha is the ship captain. However, I couldn't properly convey it and decided to cut that sequence from the re-write.
“How long did that go on for?”
Is Sasha hiring a hitman? This would normally be a big deal for people, hiring some random person to kill someone.
It’s just she seems so calm and is asking questions about the term “blood money” Isn’t she worried about David arriving? |
When I was writing her, I had an image in my head. I hate to take examples from other movies but I pictured her as a cold-hearted version of Jerry Lundegaard (Fargo). She's kind of bumbling and new to this but she's still dead-set on having her fiancee killed for his money.
As for the second part, she should be because she was half an hour late to a meeting where her timing was set properly. Sometimes, you just get lucky.
P.43 And again here asking his name? What person would ask a hitman their name? |
It goes along with her character like above. She's just making chit chat with this guy. I have altered her character a bit in the re-write to make her more like a cunning bitch but underneath, she's still the same bumbling wreck.
P.44 “It’s just my first time doing this... kind of thing.” It didn’t feel like it… she was cool as a cucumber. Maybe she needs to be more nervous in this scene but that’s probably something you’ve worked on in the rewrite. |
I've changed it in some ways.
“What did you learn?” Think “study” would be better than “learn” |
Nope, it's correct as is. He doesn't care what she studied. He's figuring out her thought process and knows from her response that she's shallow and thinks she can outsmart or pay off anyone.
P.45 “Why are you being such a prick?” Maybe he’s always a prick. She’s just met him right? |
She's met with him two other times (in the dialogue).
I have to say that I’m confused by Sasha’s reaction here, not only is this a professional killer but also what’s she expecting? To talk about the weather or what he’s up too on Christmas day? Just doesn’t ring true here. |
Chalk that up to, among other things, bad writing. I have a hard time getting across the things I need to, but the general idea is still there.
“Seventeen. So far.” I doubt a professional would reveal how many people they’ve killed. |
Correct. However, Sasha doesn't know one way or the another. There's no detail about him that she can prove and he knows it.
P.46 “Your money’s here.” That’s a neat trick. I didn’t see her do anything after he revealed the amount, no phone call or anything… maybe I missed it? |
Cell phone text message. But, I've changed that in the re-write.
“walks” Three times in quick succession, might want to mix it up here. |
I didn't bother with better adjectives in the first draft. I am improving that, though.
P.47 Okay, this exchange between Matthew and Jason has me confused? Is this the money Matthew’s been waiting on? |
Yes.
P.48 So Jason killed a clerk for money which I’m guessing is the liquor store at the beginning? I don’t think you would get 37,000 grand from a liquor store. |
It's not. In my mind, I calculated it to be roughly $2-3000. They don't have to pay the money for the entire job yet.
P.51 So I’m left really confused after this scene with Matthew which I thought was a tad long to be honest.
What was with the entire “have you done it like this before?” and “never a cruise ship” I thought he was hired to kill someone? Isn’t it the same where ever you are? |
More bad writing that I'm going to clarify in David's story. Basically, their honeymoon is going to be on a cruise ship which Matthew is going to be on and kill David on-board.
P.52 “Maggie pulls out a small notebook, writes in it.” Does Maggie need to write this down… there are no other customers in the diner and its just one cup of coffee? |
Good call. That one should be gotten rid of.
P.53 “David walks in, looks around.” So when did Abby and Kasey enter the diner? They were there when David arrived earlier but not now or at least the diner was empty at one point during this scene. Might want to add something about them entering the diner. |
Looking over it, you're correct. I completely spaced on putting that in there,even though I was nearly certain I did.
P.59 “(Into phone)” First redundant parenthetical I’ve seen. Think what you have in the action is enough to understand he’s on the phone. |
Agreed.
“knick knacks” I’m curious to know what this is? |
Knick knacks are assorted items. It just seemed simpler to type than "assorted items" and neater.
There have been quite a few instances of stopping at red lights now. I don’t know if this would play out well on screen. |
I have something in particular in mind for when they happen.
P.64 “Randall tosses the phone in the passenger’s seat.” Doesn’t read right… think “in” should be “onto” and just “passenger” for a smoother read. |
I'm kind of partial to "in", myself, but that's just me. It's a minor quibble so I'll probably just change it to avoid any reason to turn people off. As for "passenger", I know it as the passenger's seat. I never understood people calling it the passenger seat.
P.65 “Just then” Unnecessary IMO, could just start the sentence with Jason. |
Good call. I have a habit of using "just then"'s and they are killing me.
Randall’s chasing Jason? This surprises me and it doesn’t seem like the kind of thing his character would do. |
Chase was a poor choice of words in my writing. Randall literally only gets about four steps before being stopped. You don't think it's like his character to do that, though?
“Silenced handgun” Two guns? It makes me wonder why he shot the revolver and not the silenced gun? Also again why would you throw away the gun you’ve used with your finger prints on? |
It's one of those details I gloss over because it becomes second knowledge in my head. Jason puts gloves on before going into the store (in his story). I just forgot to write it in but it's in there in the re-write.
“Jason backs out of the parking lot” How do we know he backed out of a parking lot? He went around the corner? |
Side parking for the liquor store is what I meant. My way of describing is pretty terrible.
“A police car comes down the street, spots Randall kneeling in
the snow.” This reads awkward IMO. |
Agreed.
P.66 “INT. POLICE CAR – CONTINUOUS” Maybe you could use the INT/EXT technique here. I’m not a massive fan of this but I think would work well here with the conversation between James and Randall where one is in the car and the other outside unless they are both in the car? |
Randall's sitting in the car while James stands just outside the door, talking to him. Because it's from his perspective, I pictured the camera in the police car with him.
“Sighs” There’s also been a lot of sighing by the characters… something to look out for. |
What can I say? They're all a bunch of sad, pathetic bastards in this story. That said, you're right. I intend to work on that as well.
P.67 “Randy” I don’t think a officer would shorten the suspects name in a situation like this. |
Lame pay-off. I'll look into that one.
P.68 “The police car drives away.” I’d reword this to James as we’re inside the car. |
Good call. I didn't want to create a new slug everytime I picture a shot taking place in a new area but this is my pitfall. I'll work on that as well.
This middle act was a hit and miss for me, I liked Randall’s story but couldn’t get into the Sasha one with Matthew, it was a bit confusing I’m sorry to say. |
That's okay. You're officially through the worst part of the script, I promise. Granted, some people think the last story grinds to a halt and find the ending a bit confusing, but I offer my personal guarantee that the end isn't as bad as Sasha's story.
Hope this helps even though you’re already about finished on the revision. |
I promise you, Steve. It's all helpful. And, I'm always grateful.
Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), July 26th, 2012, 11:07am; Reply: 29
Sean, I tend to take heavier notes at the very beginning. I’m just going to throw a few things out. These are obviously just my own ideas, and it’s up to you to decide whether or not you agree or want to make changes.
But first, I want to give you my overall impressions. I liked it…a lot, actually. Wonderful attention to detail displayed throughout, which is rare to come across. You obviously took your time planning this all out and it shows.
There is power here. There is raw emotion. There is insanity, jealousy, brutality, and lots of sadness. It’s Christmas like I’ve never imagined.
I think it can be better, though, even. As I’ve brought up many times below, you tend to overwrite. You tend to have too much dialogue. You tend to repeat a little too much. These are relatively easy fixes, however, and if you choose to cut some of this fat out, you’re going to find you have a good 10-15 pages to work with…and I think the stories could use another 10-15 pages of additions.
I would have liked to see more of Maggie and her story. I definitely feel Mathew is the weakest, or least developed character, and I was hoping to learn more. As it sits now, he is a mystery, but not a good mystery. I’d develop his story a bit more, as he didn’t quite work for me.
But Sean, let me say this in all honesty and seriousness. I think you have something here and you know I rarely say that. It reads a little slow as written and as I said above, I think it needs a few tweaks here and there, but I love what you’ve come up with. I love how you structured it. It has a Pulp Fiction and Go vibe to it and those are 2 kickass flicks, IMO. If I were you, I’d put some more time into this and turn it into all it can be. It’s rare that I get emotional while reading a script, but I did here…several times. I was even surprised several times.
I haven’t read any feedback yet, but I’ll be very surprised if others don’t see the power on display and attention to detail here. This is some fine work, Sean – easily the best I’ve seen from you before. You should be proud, bro. Hell of an effort. Now fine tune this baby, and you will seriously have something on your hands.
Page 1 – Your opening passage/Slug isn’t really necessary. It’s a good visual, but since you’re not really showing us anything important, you could just as well start with your 2nd Slug, and have the police car pull up to a stop, next to the other cars.
I am personally against the use of semi colons in scripts, as to me, they serve no purpose. I’d suggest simply using commas each and every time.
Same as above, IMO, the INT POLICE CAR scene isn’t necessary – you can intro Dejesus in the next scene, as he walks out of the car. Just a couple easy ways to save 5 or 6 lines right off the bat and get things rolling more quickly.
Be careful of over using “police car” and “police officer”.
OK, opening dialogue sounds pretty good, but my only concern is that I don’t feel you need a whole page to show what you’ve shown so far. Not a bad page 1 by any means, though. If I were reading on my own, I would continue, so that’s a good a sign.
Page 2 – “Chris spots…” – this is awkwardly phrased, especially with the “inspects a beer cooler” part.
I don’t really follow the dialogue exchange between Chris and Ambrozik.
Last scene on Page 2 and first on page 3 are completely unnecessary, I’d lose them.
Page 3 – “DAVE’S – FRONT” – Ummm, not sure what you’re trying to do with this Slug – FRONT is not a time element. EDIT – I really dislike “Dave’s” for the name of the Diner, especially since David is a main character.
Sean, I always advise peeps not to use phrases like “Chris sees”, “Chris hears”, etc. IMO, it’s a waste.
This whole scene, which runs to page 5 is overwritten and contains way too many unnecessary details. Also, you’re writing in 1 line action/description lines which is inflating the length here, IMO.
Page 7 – OK, I actually like this scene here with Chris reconnecting with his Mom, but again, IMO, it drags a bit. Also, you should immediately intro the Mom and kid, since you do later here.
Page 9 – OK, again, I do like where this is going and how you’re doing it, and you know I don’t say that all that often. BUT, it is overwritten. Chris’ Mom’s dialogue could use a little freshening up – she sounds a bit robotic in places and maybe you’re going for the distance between them, but I think it could use a look or two. Bottom line is that you’ve used 8 ½ pages so far and IMO, you could easily do the exact same thing in about 6.
“Neither Jason or…” – This is the kind of sentence you want to try and avoid if at all possible, as it’s what I call, a “tell”. You’re telling me something by writing a line about what’s not there.
Page 10 – A good example of overwriting is your constant lines about turning the lights on and off. You don’t need or want to do this, as it doesn’t matter. Kind of like writing about peeps opening and closing doors – it’s understood and not necessary to write in a Spec script.
Page 13 – Woooo, not where I thought this was going…at all. I guess that can be considered a good thing. Same thing I want to say again – I like your dialogue but there’s too much of it, IMO. I don’t see this as being near 13 minutes of film time. Much of this is based on how you’re choosing to write what you want to say. Also, there are definitely many lines of dialogue that don’t need to be here.
OK, so…is this like a compilation of different stories? Interesting…very interesting.
Page 17 – Vincent’s dialogue should be (V.O.), not (O.S.).
Page 18 – OK, Sean, so again, I actually like what you’re doing with the previous scene, but it’s much too long for what it is. Too many comments about nothing, and really, nothing going on. Don’t get me wrong, because your dialogue is actually pretty good. I’d lose some wrylies, and lose the stuff about ordering the coffee, bringing the coffee, etc, as it just doesn’t add anything at all.
But, there is a rather interesting vibe you’ve got going here. I almost feel a little Pulp Fiction feel going on here, and that’s a fucking good thing, bro.
Page 19 – “We all go a little mad sometimes” – NICE! Love it. I enjoy when writers can weave in a classic line form a movie and have it make sense. Creepy, actually, but effective.
Page 21 – Sean, this has some serious potential, but again, this death scene is another example of you writing too much and losing the effect…the power of this powerful scene. Too much talking takes away from what just went down.
I’m also confused now about this Vincent guy on the phone. Unless he’s literally just offscreen, his dialogue has to be (V.O.). I’m wondering if he’s even a real person or some figment in Dave’s mind. We’ll see.
Page 23 – So now Vincent speaks (O.S.) and there’s no phone involved. I’m confused, but thinking it has to be a voice in his head and if so, I don’t know if I personally like that.
Page 33 – IMO, you don’t need or want all the exact same stuff happening again, as we just saw it happen. We know exactly what’s going to happen, so unless you play this scene from a completely different perspective, it feels old and stale.
Page 34 – OK, story angle # 3 starting up. Hard to say what I want to say here, Sean, cuz I really like what you’re doing here and I admire the non standard structure you’re using. BUT, IMO, both story angle 1 and 2 are overwritten, and too long at 34 pages combined. I think they can each be cut pretty heavily, but I think they actually need a bit more. So, my recommendation is to cut out the fat and add some new stuff to spruce them up a bit.
Page 35 – Wooo – love it – “never shake the Devil’s hand”. Sean, I’m more than intrigued, bro, I hope you can pull this all together, cuz there is major potential here!
Page 46 – Sean, again, I like what you’re doing with this new scene but this one is even longer than the others and it’s 2 peeps in a diner talking with nothing happening around them. Too much dialogue can sometimes kill good dialogue. Needs to be trimmed or something exciting or interesting needs to happen.
Page 47 – Angle # 4 begins. Let’s see where we go…
Page 55 – Sean, do some research on (V.O.) and (O.S.), cuz you’re getting it wrong every time.
I do not like using intercuts. I don’t like reading intercuts. They are lazy writing to me. Too much dialogue again between Randy and Kacey.
BUT…
You are doing a terrific job of tying this all together. I am very impressed, actually. It takes a real attention to detail and you’ve obviously put the time in and done your homework. It shows. Good job!
Page 79 – Sean, again, bro, I really like what you’ve done with this new Jason angle, and again, it shows major attention to detail and major thought and planning. For awhile, I was thinking this wasn’t going anywhere, but by bringing in Kacey and Abby, and then having Jason give away the winning ticket, which will most likely be the final nail in innocent Randall’s coffin, is well played. Impressive. But, again, too much dialogue that doesn’t need to be there, shouldn’t be there, because it detracts from the emotional power you’ve shown.
“Chris saves himself by grabbing of the railing.” – Not sure what this is supposed to say. Typo in here, maybe? Otherwise, very awkward.
Page 80 – “DAVE’S – BACK” – It seems like the action underneath this Slug should be in the car, not the Diner. Am I missing something here, or are you saying he throws the canister inside the Diner?
Page 83 – I’m definitely confused as to who Mathew is, and his connection with Jason, but I’m sure I’m about to find out as we go into another story angle. EDIT – We never find out and that’s a problem.
Page 84 – Kasey’s dialogue – “come” – “came”
Page 86 – What’s up with “DAUGHTER” and “SON”? Why aren’t they named?
Page 87 – “James, to comfort her,…” – Very awkwardly phrased.
Page 87/88 - “DAVID’S HOUSE” – This entire scene is way overwritten. Too much description, too much everything.
Page 88 – The Operator’s dialogue should be (V.O.)
Page 89 – Ambrozyk’s dialogue is missing “up” after “held”
Page 91 – Look how each and every sentence starts with either Jason or David.
Finished – Good job!
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, July 27th, 2012, 7:43pm; Reply: 30
Quoted from Dreamscale But first, I want to give you my overall impressions. I liked it…a lot, actually. Wonderful attention to detail displayed throughout, which is rare to come across. You obviously took your time planning this all out and it shows.
There is power here. There is raw emotion. There is insanity, jealousy, brutality, and lots of sadness. It’s Christmas like I’ve never imagined. |
That's okay, I'm exactly the same way. Usually, you bring up quibbles you have and they tend to continue throughout the script so there's less need to mention them at the end.
I had to take my time. This script was the biggest pain in the ass. Fucking filed kept getting screwed up. It probably helped the quality in the end, but it's one of those things where I keep thinking, "Is this really worth it?"
That last sentence is something you'd see in a commercial advertising the movie.
Quoted from Dreamscale I think it can be better, though, even. As I’ve brought up many times below, you tend to overwrite. You tend to have too much dialogue. You tend to repeat a little too much. These are relatively easy fixes, however, and if you choose to cut some of this fat out, you’re going to find you have a good 10-15 pages to work with…and I think the stories could use another 10-15 pages of additions. |
That is my biggest problem (beyond differentiating my characters) is overwriting. I rely on my dialogue as my prose isn't exactly... up to snuff? I'd probably have to do a whole lot of planning to figure out what I'd do with those fifteen pages because, as they say, timing is everything.
Quoted from Dreamscale I would have liked to see more of Maggie and her story. I definitely feel Mathew is the weakest, or least developed character, and I was hoping to learn more. As it sits now, he is a mystery, but not a good mystery. I’d develop his story a bit more, as he didn’t quite work for me. |
I kind of wrote it in a particular way. I didn't necessarily intend to stick to a beat sheet but it kind of happened that way. As for Maggie, she shows up in the script about an equal amount as everyone does but I didn't want a story to be specifically hers. Exactly the same as Matthew. They're there to deal with one specific character but they find themselves connected to others (as well as each other) just by chance.
Quoted from Dreamscale But Sean, let me say this in all honesty and seriousness. I think you have something here and you know I rarely say that. It reads a little slow as written and as I said above, I think it needs a few tweaks here and there, but I love what you’ve come up with. I love how you structured it. It has a Pulp Fiction and Go vibe to it and those are 2 kickass flicks, IMO. If I were you, I’d put some more time into this and turn it into all it can be. It’s rare that I get emotional while reading a script, but I did here…several times. I was even surprised several times. |
Well, I really appreciate you saying that. I love Pulp Fiction but I watched Go (all the way through) for the first time about a week ago. Beyond Olyphantastic, I wasn't big into the movie. I plan to keep working on it, but improving is tough because I have kind of a hard time creating defined characters and their quirks. I'm actually curious what parts made you emotional and/or surprised.
Quoted from Dreamscale I haven’t read any feedback yet, but I’ll be very surprised if others don’t see the power on display and attention to detail here. This is some fine work, Sean – easily the best I’ve seen from you before. You should be proud, bro. Hell of an effort. Now fine tune this baby, and you will seriously have something on your hands. |
I have noticed that each thing of mine you've read I've gotten a better review on. I'm just waiting for the first one where it begins its decline again.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 1 – Your opening passage/Slug isn’t really necessary. It’s a good visual, but since you’re not really showing us anything important, you could just as well start with your 2nd Slug, and have the police car pull up to a stop, next to the other cars. |
That is why it was there. The visual or as the beat sheet says, the "Opening Image". I don't really care about the beat sheet but I wanted it to start special... and at the end.
Quoted from Dreamscale OK, opening dialogue sounds pretty good, but my only concern is that I don’t feel you need a whole page to show what you’ve shown so far. Not a bad page 1 by any means, though. If I were reading on my own, I would continue, so that’s a good a sign. |
It's not as bad as it was but re-reading it, I still don't like how that scene came out.
Quoted from Dreamscale I don’t really follow the dialogue exchange between Chris and Ambrozik. |
Another sequence I never liked but I had to have Chris be at the liquor store before going to the diner. So, I wrote in a mini McGuffin.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 3 – “DAVE’S – FRONT” – Ummm, not sure what you’re trying to do with this Slug – FRONT is not a time element. EDIT – I really dislike “Dave’s” for the name of the Diner, especially since David is a main character. |
I was told to drop most of my Continui because it follows a character going from one place to another. So, that was technically a mini-slug as I was signifying the front of the diner but I left off the continuous.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 7 – OK, I actually like this scene here with Chris reconnecting with his Mom, but again, IMO, it drags a bit. Also, you should immediately intro the Mom and kid, since you do later here. |
Yeah, it drags but it's a breeze compared to how long and overdrawn it used to be. I know. That was a bad case of me directing. I wanted to imply that they were there without focusing on them yet.
Quoted from Dreamscale Chris’ Mom’s dialogue could use a little freshening up – she sounds a bit robotic in places and maybe you’re going for the distance between them, but I think it could use a look or two. |
Yeah, she does. Her character was one of the toughest when it came to giving her a proper voice. Definitely something I need to work on.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 13 – Woooo, not where I thought this was going…at all. I guess that can be considered a good thing. Same thing I want to say again – I like your dialogue but there’s too much of it, IMO. I don’t see this as being near 13 minutes of film time. Much of this is based on how you’re choosing to write what you want to say. Also, there are definitely many lines of dialogue that don’t need to be here. |
Surprises are good, I suppose. I know, I know. The dreaded overwriting and overdialoguing.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 19 – “We all go a little mad sometimes” – NICE! Love it. I enjoy when writers can weave in a classic line form a movie and have it make sense. Creepy, actually, but effective. |
That was something I had added in the new draft. See, in the old one, I spelled out the fact that Vincent was a voice in David's head. In this one, I tried to leave it a little more ambiguous but tried to give subtle clues. That was one of them.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 21 – Sean, this has some serious potential, but again, this death scene is another example of you writing too much and losing the effect…the power of this powerful scene. Too much talking takes away from what just went down. |
There was a lot less talking in the old one but I had changed Sasha up between the two drafts so I needed her reaction to be different this time.
Quoted from Dreamscale I’m also confused now about this Vincent guy on the phone. Unless he’s literally just offscreen, his dialogue has to be (V.O.). I’m wondering if he’s even a real person or some figment in Dave’s mind. We’ll see.
I was always under the impression that V.O. was reserved for inner monologue, but it does makes sense that Vincent would be V.O.
[quote=Dreamscale]Page 33 – IMO, you don’t need or want all the exact same stuff happening again, as we just saw it happen. We know exactly what’s going to happen, so unless you play this scene from a completely different perspective, it feels old and stale. |
It's one of those things where the angle is important because of Vincent virtually controlling David's thoughts and actions. If I didn't have that, I'd have cut his story much shorter.
Quoted from Dreamscale So, my recommendation is to cut out the fat and add some new stuff to spruce them up a bit. |
I've been trying to find ways to do that, but it still has to fit within the confines of the story I've put the characters into.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 35 – Wooo – love it – “never shake the Devil’s hand”. |
I didn't exactly mean it literally but more his thoughts on people who hire him to kill other people.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 46 – Sean, again, I like what you’re doing with this new scene but this one is even longer than the others and it’s 2 peeps in a diner talking with nothing happening around them. Too much dialogue can sometimes kill good dialogue. Needs to be trimmed or something exciting or interesting needs to happen. |
Like I told you in the beginning, I apologize in advance for stories two and three, specifically three.
Quoted from Dreamscale You are doing a terrific job of tying this all together. I am very impressed, actually. It takes a real attention to detail and you’ve obviously put the time in and done your homework. It shows. Good job! |
Now, if only I'd paid more attention to creating an interesting situation for my characters to be connected to... =)
Quoted from Dreamscale For awhile, I was thinking this wasn’t going anywhere, but by bringing in Kacey and Abby, and then having Jason give away the winning ticket, which will most likely be the final nail in innocent Randall’s coffin, is well played. |
Yeppers. Poor, sad bastard Randall.
Quoted from Dreamscale “Chris saves himself by grabbing of the railing.” – Not sure what this is supposed to say. Typo in here, maybe? Otherwise, very awkward. |
Yeah, that's bad writing and after re-reading through the script again, I found a sentence that didn't have a period at the end of it. So disappointed.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 83 – I’m definitely confused as to who Mathew is, and his connection with Jason, but I’m sure I’m about to find out as we go into another story angle. EDIT – We never find out and that’s a problem. |
I don't think it's a problem. He has no connection to Jason other than knowing that the money was his.
Quoted from Dreamscale Page 87/88 - “DAVID’S HOUSE” – This entire scene is way overwritten. Too much description, too much everything. |
We can agree. It was another case of me directing. I mentioned everything that was going to be referenced during the next sequence, but it's not all necessary in a spec.
Posted by: danbotha, September 8th, 2012, 1:27am; Reply: 31
Hey Sean, I'm going to be quick with this as I really don't have much to say. Sorry about that.
I have to admit, when you first went back and told the exact same story from a different perspective, I didn't approve. I've never been a great fan of that and I believe you have to be a truly great writer to pull it off... I guess that makes you a truly great writer, then :)
You pulled it off, in this and the way those stories intertwine in the end is just brilliant.
Just putting it out there, it reminded me a bit of 'Crash.'
Overall, I couldn't fault this. Not a single problem. Not even the start of a single problem.
I think it's fairly safe to say I enjoyed it. Great work!
Dan
P.S. Sorry this was so short. I'm feeling a little guilty, but there really isn't anything else I can say...
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, September 8th, 2012, 2:25pm; Reply: 32
Dan,
Thank you for the read and I'm glad you liked it so much.
A lot of people say that story overlapped too much and there was going to be a version of David's story I wrote where there was no Vincent. But, the story lost virtually anything we didn't learn from Chris or Sasha's story so I kept it.
I highly doubt I'm a great writer. After all, I'm sure you could come up with something better than this if you spent three years on it, non-stop and re-wrote it from scratch thrice. It was just kind of an "I'm going to finish this damn script" mentality.
I'm also glad the ending worked out as well. Some people liked the tie-up, some didn't. I don't have it exactly what I want, but I'm nearly there.
Yep, I've gotten Crash. Crash, Pulp Fiction, Go, Babel, The 25th Hour and 11:14. Now, if only it were actually as good as those instead of just reminding people of them. Then, I'd be going somewhere. Lol.
No problems at all? No over dialogue, no under dialogue? Nothing wrong with Chris', David's or Sasha's stories? No melodrama in Randall's or too much retreading in Jason's? There's always problems but if there's none of any discernable note, then I can accept that. There's still things I have to, and am going to, change.
I'm happy you enjoyed it and thank you for the praise.
I don't mind it being short. If you couldn't find anything you didn't like, I like that. Less work I have to do to it in the future.
Posted by: Guest, March 3rd, 2014, 1:40am; Reply: 33
Hey Sean, you sent me this (and another script) to check out in my thread that I posted in the script exchange forum ("send me some good stuff"). It's been a while and I'm sorry I never got around to taking a look. For some reason it always escaped my mind. Apologies. Sincerely, dude. I took a long time to get around to this. I briefly glanced over some comments before I started reading. Jeff's glowing praise for 'Christmas Story' got me pumped, because you hardly ever see him so behind a feature on here. haha. I wish I could share his feelings. But, before I go on, let me just say I'm nobody special. I have nothing produced. I'm not a professional. I wanted to like this, because you seem like a really cool cat around here, Sean, but I just could never get into any of the story. I'm really sorry, man.
I have no real big problems with the script. Your writing is quick and easy to read. The rest was just not my cup of joe, sorry. The one thing I think I really liked were the surprise kills (Chris, Sasha, etc). I wasn't sure if they were going to buy it or not -- especially Chris, since he looked to be our main character. You set it up where it could go either way. The flip side to that coin is that these characters aren't that well developed yet in a lean 90 page script which has a lot of other stuff going on as well. It's a nice "jump" type moment, but it's not a gut wrenching, effective moment. So when some of your dead characters are back on the page, I didn't really have anything invested in those scenes because I already knew what happened to them.
I wasn't a big fan of the dialogue. There were numerous times I found myself re-writing the scene in my head, trying to replace the OTN stuff. I wasn't fond of the David/Vincent exchanges. I felt that went on far too long. The ending reminded me of The Departed. You think David gets away with everything and then Jason shows up and just blows him away.
In conclusion, this wasn't for me. I see such films as Pulp Fiction and Crash were mentioned in some posts. Yeah, I'm a fan of interconnecting stories and what not, but I just feel this wasn't as good as it could be. To me there just wasn't enough stakes or urgency. Nothing thrusting us forward big time. Moving on to your characters, I think they could stand out more if you threw in some memorable/infamous scenes. Jules has his speeches, Butch kills off the sex whackos with the sword, and Vincent has a couple scenes too, dancing, always being on the can when something bad happens, and that suspense filled sequence trying to save Mia. Find something whacky and cool you could toss into this script. Michael Madsen will forever be remembered as the psychopathic Mr. Blonde because of one infamous scene/sequence from a film that's 22 years old. Try to write a character that an actor will be remembered by for a very long time. Easier said than done, though, right? Haha, I'm trying to do it myself. Take care, Sean.
--Steve
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, March 4th, 2014, 11:50am; Reply: 34
Steve,
I appreciate the read, but how share you NOT shower this with glowing praise! Lol. I'm kidding. But, I don't really care whether or not you've had something produced, I think everyone's opinions around here are equal, so yours carry just as much weight.
So, in general, it doesn't work? The story, characters, etc. I have been told that before and it's one of those things (as you know from reading) that would be very challenging to change because changing one thing probably affects two or three others. So, the best I can do is try and up the dialogue and interesting character cues (I've been trying to do that in subsequent rewrites, but I've been told that they're just as mediocre as before).
Stakes, urgency, dialogue, more/better character and interesting scenes (biggest challenge of them, because I write in a very non-descript way which doesn't offer itself to those kinds of scenes). I'll definitely see what I can do. But, thank you again and sorry you didn't like it better. =)
-Sean
Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), March 4th, 2014, 9:06pm; Reply: 35
Interesting...
Seems like my bro, Steverino, in his new SS name, and I do not see eye to eye. And that's completely cool. We all like what we like and the reasons why don't really even matter.
But, IMO, on an amateur platform like this (amateur, yes, but understood there many produced wruiters here as well), with so many painfully poorly written and conceived scripts, it always surprises me when well thought out, well written (for the most part) scripts get put down.
Sure, we all know there are many ways to improve this script or really any script. Steve wants more wild, crazy, memorable scenes or characters. I get that.
But, this is good as is. No way around that, IMO. Look at the crap that gets produced and tell me those scripts couldn't and shouldn't have been MUCH better. Really?
Sean, have you made any changes since 2012? Is there a new draft available?
Peace, my brotehrs and sisters... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, March 5th, 2014, 9:26am; Reply: 36
Jeff,
That's okay. Steve did echo a lot of things I've heard, even from yourself; character and dialogue issues, plain and simple. Problems are problems, regardless of how they stack up against something else.
It doesn't really bother me. I mean, I'd be really disappointed if somebody found nothing wrong. Just, for example (and I'm not calling you out), when Daniel Botha reviewed it and didn't mention anything wrong with it, it seemed like he liked the script more than I did. I know there're issues, ones I'm always working on trying to fix and there's no such thing as a perfect script.
That's the problem, though. Everyone (up 'til a couple days ago) never really had a negative thing to say in regards to the structure (except that the first time it flashes back, it's a little confusing, which is understandable), but those are issues, problems I need to clear up. It's my job to make things clear, to make them as good as can be. Let's face it, this script isn't anything special. If you were to play this in consecutive order (kind of in the same way as if you did that to Memento), it wouldn't feel nearly as clever, I'm willing to bet. Then again, Memento had good characters and interesting (albeit not great) dialogue. Christmas Story doesn't.
I was working on changes earlier this year, hoping to put it into PAGE. But, I changed my mind. It's not ready. So, yes, I've been making lots of changes, but the new draft isn't available because the script is a mess right now because I'm gutting certain parts to rewrite them from scratch. Long story short, there's one coming eventually, but I'm too focused on trying to finish script in a rough draft form than putting a month into fully rewriting Christmas Story again, especially since I had just rewritten it in January. Marnie had really good notes about what was wrong, but the problem with them was that she told me the exact same thing I had always been hearing; cut down on dialogue, improve dialogue and make the characters stand out more. So, I joked that it was like "Groundhog Day" because it seemed like the last rewrite never happened.
Anyway, I appreciate the words of encouragement, Jeff, but Steve is right. After so many years, this should be better than it is. It needs better character and dialogue and I'm sure that if I could clear those up, the story issues (rather, lack of interesting scenes) would resolve themselves.
-Sean
Posted by: Guest, March 5th, 2014, 4:04pm; Reply: 37
Quoted from Dreamscale
Seems like my bro, Steverino, in his new SS name, and I do not see eye to eye. And that's completely cool. We all like what we like and the reasons why don't really even matter.
But, this is good as is. No way around that, IMO. Look at the crap that gets produced and tell me those scripts couldn't and shouldn't have been MUCH better. Really?
|
Yes it's me, Steverino. haha ;D
As far as Sean's script goes, it's not bad at all. I read the entire thing. Most of the time I don't. I can see why you're a fan: there's no camera directions, typos or grammar issues, there's no asides or any of that hoopla. You got a genre that you like, and I can understand why you like this script. I had no real major issues with this, it just wasn't my cup of joe. I don't believe it was perfectly executed.
I'll agree with you about the crap that gets produced. Would I be mad if Christmas Story was produced? No way in hell. In fact, I'd be excited to watch it just to see if the director and the cast elevated the story,
because I do see a good story here. I just didn't like the way Sean went about it.
I also think over the past few years, Jeffro, that you and I have changed, writing wise, story wise, etc. We've always been good buds off and on, when I leave the board for periods of time and come back, we can talk to each other as if we never stopped, etc. but I just think you and I have different styles and taste now. It's all gravy, though.
--Steve
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