So I've been chucking myself at one or two shorts, and an (abortive  --- *grits teeth and forces a ->* lol ) pilot episode for a series, and then last night I dug out an old file of word docs for a comedy series pilot from way back* and started putting it thru trelby, and I bumped into a question I don’t have the answer to:

(*from back when i thought screenplays were like short stories but with every sentence on a new line and a few "Shot of Harry's thumb" LMFAO when i read through them) ----> ANYWAYS...

...my question is this - where do other people stand on the treatments and outlines? Particularly for shorts and single 30 min episodes for series. So far I've done them in my head, maybe a few notes and/or a brain-stormed flow-chart, but it's all a scribbled down mess.

What prompts the question is I wrote up about half my sit-com before I 'discovered' - through writing improvised dialogue - the episode's central plot device. Suddenly, without me quite knowing where it came from, the main character had an actual problem to solve - and it took me by surprise. It also made me realise that every scene needs to refer to this problem, to be ABOUT solving the problem, to give the piece it's 'push'.

So now I have to go back through the 'random conversation' scenes and re-organise them so the characters are talking about this specific thing, which is ok but really I think it would have been better for me to work it out first. But - oh lord but... would I have worked it out? The device started as a small couple of lines in one scene, which then someone in the next scene referred to because well, you have to get them discussing something, then it snowballed until I looked at the scenes without it, and they sort of disolved into gratuitous set-up/pay-offs without any real - er - reason? Just people talking because I need them to talk to make the jokes.

And it was only then that I thought of how to provide (or have my main character provide) the solution.

And this is when I’m looking at 15 pages of writing, and realising it’s 15 pages of (almost) pointless writing.

So - develop the plot points through writing improvised scenes with characters ‘talking for the sake of it’ and allowing ideas to develop then rewriting and developing further in a sort of cyclical process?

Or - organise first, make sure I know what the central problem (and how it will be solved!), and then it’s there in my head as I begin to write every scene so I have something definite to hang the dialogue on from the beginning?

I guess we all find our own way through, and I’m sure it’s a mix of the two for most, but I wondered if there was any thoughts from people?

(For a feature or, say, an hour long episode of a crime drama I could only give it a go if the plot was done line by line already – couldn’t stand the thought of beginning something that long without knowing how it was going to end... but shorts and sit-coms?)

Do both.

A comedy series that I believe sets the standard for all is Arrested Devolopment, so I'll use it as an example. I'm sure you've seen it, but the main premise of the show is how Michael Bluth is going to save is family's company. What stands in his way from his goal is the people he is trying to save, his family. Each episode has its own drive, but the premise never goes away.

The funny comes from the characters, to each their own. If you can establish who your characters are, the jokes and plots are endless.

You have already come up with the material as you were writing and for me personally, that how I do business. I get a premise first, establish characters and then let them play around in their new world for a bit. The experiment pays off more times than not for myself, just like playing poker, you can always fold your luck.

It's a good discussion you brought to the table and I'm interested in what others have to say about it.

i've been messing around with a 30minute TV Series idea for quite a while. 1 hour episodes would just be too long for me to tackle.

i doubt it'd ever get made or if i'll ever write it... but the idea of doing like a vitual series has always intrigued me.  


similar to johnnynuts...
i started with the setting... because all TV shows have a central setting. like a Police Station. A High School. or Office Buildling.

once i know that - i start creating characters....writing out detailed profiles and backstories....(the funnest part for me in the process is character building)  

and from there ideas for plot begin to form.  once i get enough characters and ideas....then i go back and start to organize and structure it all out.... and carefully plan my series out for the first 2-3 seasons....even though i know once i get half way through the first season - it will have gone in a completely different direction. lol

Every scene doesn't need to be about the problem, unless you have one character and he/she is in EVERY scene, which is highly unlikely.
Other characters can have a sub plot which in turn might help out the main plot or maybe not, just as long as your Central Character and their story is the main issue.

Also depending on the type of series you're going for?

One Central Character: Everyone Loves Raymond
Buddy show : Two and a Half Men
Ensemble : Friends

For the Central Character:

a) The story must have an emotional conflict for the Central Character.

b) The Central Character drives the action , his choices make the plot progress.

c) The Central Character resolves the problem.

For the Buddy show even though you have 2 leads, one of them drives the story more often than the other.

With the Ensemble, you have a group of characters that are equally important and so they can have separate storylines.

As a sitcom  revolves mostly around dialogue, kind of a stage play on screen, the dialogue has to define the characters. if you're talking for the sake of talking is one thing, but if you're talking to drive the story forward or give us a glimpse of the characters persona that's another..

I hope this makes sense... :)


Mark

I guess what I mean is each individual story strand (main plot or sub-plot) has a dilemma/problem for the characters to overcome/react to/talk about.

And for me i like having a plot/subplot related reason for each scene, so every scene will be linked into the show's 'world' in a definite way. And then each scene adds something, even if it's only a throwaway line at the end, to either escalate the dilemma or help solve it.

The strands might not always meet (like the Friends going off and having their own bad days in mini-groups, then debriefing together at the end).