My script 'Walk Away' has been filmed without my permission. After I saw Zack post about similar cases where people have done it to him, I looked up all my scripts on youtube until I got a match. I'm quite annoyed as I haven't been credited as a writer. It sucks to see your film out on the web, without being credited to the hard work I've put in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr7fgcjmwUA

I'm going to contact them and ask that they pull the link down and post an edited version where I am credited. I'm not just gonna let shit like this happen.

Suggestions??

Dan

Quoted from danbotha I'm going to contact them and ask that they pull the link down and post an edited version where I am credited. I'm not just gonna let shit like this happen. Suggestions??

Exactly

At least I'm not the only one. I contacted a few of the filmakers of the various films and tried to get the ones who did not credit me to take the films down. One of them did that I know of.

~Zack~

Quoted from Zack At least I'm not the only one. I contacted a few of the filmakers of the various films and tried to get the ones who did not credit me to take the films down. One of them did that I know of.

If they don't I'll threaten them with legal action. I won't actually go through with it and I have no idea of what my rights are, but they don't know that, do they?

Sending a very strongly worded message now.

Be sure to tell them you won't Walk Away from this matter.  :-)

Yeah this kind of thing sucks.  Especially like I heard Phil say, if you want to enter this into any competitions, you'll be disqualified because it technically has been 'produced'.

Though I think the story is strong enough to win some comps, the way that one was filmed clearly won't do any good in any festivals based on the acting alone.

Here's my very strongly worded email. Considering I wasn't impressed when I wrote it, I came across as quite nice. Mark I should have included that pun ;D

"Hey there Andrew,

My name's Daniel Botha, the writer of your 'Walk Away' short film. I was browsing through youtube, looking for stolen content where film makers have filmed my material without prior express permission when I stumbled upon your short film.

Unfortunately, I'd be lying if I said I was happy with what you have done. You have essentially stolen a screenplay and it is in breech of the International Copyright Laws put in place for this very reason.

I am requesting that you have the film removed permanently form youtube, or at the very least a final edit, where my name is added to the credits of the film as the screenwriter.

I think that is the biggest deal. I worked long and hard polishing that screenplay up to the standard. While it flatters me that you saw it fit to base your film on my script, it also disgusts me that you would go out of your way to film material that wasn't yours in the first place.

Failure to comply with my request will result in legal action. I am aware of my rights and you are in breech of an International law.

Thank you and I look forward to your prompt reply.
Daniel Botha"

Hey Dan,

Sorry to hear it, these guys don't care and many take the attitude that you won't take it further as it costs money to fight them.

My advise is firstly go onto youtube and download a copy of the video, that way you have the evidence. If you don't, then they may take it off youtube and you have to prove it was there.

Secondly contact youtube and advise them of a copyright infrindgement, they will ask the producer for evidence then they will remove it from youtube.

Once you get to this stage, if the producer hasn't contacted you by then, send him an email and tell him you instigated the action because of a copyright infringement.

He may want to then negotiate a deal to give you credit and reinstate it, If that is what you want.

Proceed with caution and make the process transparent !!!!

Regards Alex

Too late Alex. In my ignorance I sent them a message. Will do the other stuff after tea.

Quoted from danbotha Failure to comply with my request will result in legal action. I am aware of my rights and you are in breech of an International law.

I need you to do me a solid.  I have my ex-wife's e-mail address here, and she's been taking half of my paychecks for the last several years...    :-)  (I can guarantee the New Zealand e-mail address'll make her at least wet herself)  



I'm not too sure about this kind of protocol, actually.  I know Phil (dogglebe) has been through this kind of thing before.  He'd probably be the one to PM and ask for advice if they don't take it down.

If they don't, I'll start a Youtube account and start leaving MY strongly worded (and heavily descriptive) things they can do with a broomstick on their comments.

Quoted from rc1107 If they don't, I'll start a Youtube account and start leaving MY strongly worded (and heavily descriptive) things they can do with a broomstick on their comments.

Hey Mark, I was thinking more alongs the lines of using the rough end of a pineapple.

Alex

Quoted from rc1107 I need you to do me a solid.  I have my ex-wife's e-mail address here, and she's been taking half of my paychecks for the last several years...    :-)  (I can guarantee the New Zealand e-mail address'll make her at least wet herself)

Give details, Mark. I'm sure it can be arranged haha ;D

I'm waiting on a response from them. I see Michael left a nice little comment. Had to stalk his youtube account to find out who it was though. Thanks, mate :)

I'll see what they say (if they say anything) and then take it from there. Swimming in the deep end here.

Quoted from Alex_212 Hey Mark, I was thinking more alongs the lines of using the rough end of a pineapple. Alex

;D ;D Ph Alex, you make me laugh.

Seems like this was made by kids. They usually don't know what they are doing is even wrong, so I wouldn't be too harsh on them. Just let them know they can't do that and ask them to remove it... Though I guess it's too late now.

I haven't been to harsh on them. I kinda feel bad as the film was only posted about 6 hours ago and I've already picked up on it. Hopefully this is more of a learning experience for them. I have no issue with you using my stuff, but you've gotta let me know... No matter how innocent and young you may be.

What a coincidence - you start looking just when some of your work gets posted on Youtube.

It's great that it got filmed I guess but yeah, it's a bitch that they have never asked for permission. As Mark said, this could prevent this little story from going into comps now.

Also to not to be mentioned in the credits is a sore one - I see that there is a comment on the video asking who wrote it...wonder how the guy would have responded if you hadn't sent off the e-mail.

Hope it all works out well, Dan. And you at least get the writing credit you deserve.

Thanks Steve,

I hope it can be resolved. All they have to do is add my name and I'll be sweet.

Michael was the one who left the comment. Gave me a good laugh :)

You weren't harsh, but I wouldn't go threatening legal action on the kids unless they respond negatively.

How did you find out, Daniel?

I'd only make them include me in credits but I know a guy who would never tolerate anything remotely close. He'll call it stealing period and tell them to remove it. And take action. So whatever you feel make you pleased in the end:)

I think they'll do whatever you ask them to.

I wonder how you guys keep finding out about these things...

Khamanna, whenever you have the chance, take the time to Youtube search the title of every single short script that you have posted on a public forum. It takes a while, but if you happen to spot something that belongs to you, then at least you know about it.

I searched Youtube after Zack's thread on his material that has been filmed and thought it couldn't hurt to have a look around. Poor buggers... The film was being posted, just as I started looking.

Hopefully, this can be resolved in a peaceful manner where I don't have to get rude or snappy. I don't like it when I'm like that.

Think about all the people who steal scripts and change titles. I wonder how many more scripts from this site have been made like that.

Quoted from Felipe Think about all the people who steal scripts and change titles. I wonder how many more scripts from this site have been made like that.

The basic premise of the original will still be there. If you're really serious about catching them, you could Google keywords from your logline. Not sure if you'd find anything, though...

Gotta take the good with the bad when posting shorts here. Best thing about it is that, last I checked, it only had 61 views, so nobody's really seen it. Probably most of the views were from people here checking it out.

Keep bugging them. They should at least add your name. I've had two things produced without my permission here, but i didn't fuss much because they at least had the courtesy to list me as a writer.

Sadly, I don't think there's much else you can do unless you want to hire a lawyer, and even then... What? This is a short film, more like an exercise. It's not making anyone any money. Now, if you find a scene from your short in a feature or on NCIS? then it's time to lawyer up.

James

I agree 100% James. If they had credited me as the writer from the start I probably wouldn't have said anything. I might have sent them a quick email to congratulate them on finishing a film and kindly reminded them that the writer still has to be notified.

It doesn't look like they're making a profit, so I won't bother with a lawyer, but if it isn't removed I will contact the Youtube administrators and see what I can do from there.

Just curious. Wonder if this was a film student that made this for a course requirement?  If so, it would be interesting to know if you could find out which film school it was for. If so, then you might have a lot of leverage with the kids, as they might be concerned you would alert their professors. Don't even know how to begin to find out if it was a class project though.

As an attorney, I can tell you that most letters sent by attorneys are still ignored unless there is some specificity about what you plan to do if they don't take action to rectify the situation.  If they don't feel like there is any real threat then they'll just toss the request in the same file where all our query letters go.  If there is something with teeth behind the letter (I am aware this is a project you did for your NYU short film class and I will present Professor Dumbledore with a copy of my script unless it is removed by midnight tonight), then they'll likely take it down.

Quoted from Gary in Houston Just curious. Wonder if this was a film student that made this for a course requirement?  If so, it would be interesting to know if you could find out which film school it was for. If so, then you might have a lot of leverage with the kids, as they might be concerned you would alert their professors. Don't even know how to begin to find out if it was a class project though.

A professor used on of my scripts without my permission for a film project for his class, so....

~Zack~

Gary, it looks like it's just a private thing that they did by themselves. I can't force them to take it down, I know that. But I can prove that I am the original owner of the script and I can report it to YouTube and get it removed... Even if they do somehow manage to keep it up, I'm persistent enough to keep hitting that 'report' button.

My biggest fear is that there are Guest users on this forum who get it into their head that it's okay to use my stuff because I'm in no position to do anything about it. I don't want to set an example of myself where film makers tend to abuse my rights every time I punch a short out.

They may well have not been aware of what they were doing, but I've told them now. There really isn't an excuse anymore. They either remove the film, or add my name to the film... It would only take 3 minutes to add something. It's a no-brainer, IMO.

Totally agree that it should be taken down.  Unfortunately there are leeches everywhere.

You'd be surprised how difficult YouTube makes it for all this to happen.  It's not worth their resources most of the time to have an investigation like this.

Quoted from Felipe You'd be surprised how difficult YouTube makes it for all this to happen.  It's not worth their resources most of the time to have an investigation like this.

YouTube won't take a film down.  They can, however, cancel your account if you get more than one copyright violation.  

They will send an email asking for the user to prove that they have permission to use all of the material in their video and I believe they decide they can send this email if credits are missing.

I've had this happen on a number of occasions because I used my own loop music for several of my videos and (without prompting) YouTube investigated.  I was unsure what they were after at first - because they weren't clear in their email, but after several tries I realized they were upset because the music wasn't credited.   I told them it was my music and then arbitrarily (it seemed) they decided some videos were ok but the other's weren't.   They didn't make me take them down but they did remove any ads from them.

Anyway, that's my experience with them and it's a couple of years old so it may be a bit different now.    

Quoted from Felipe You'd be surprised how difficult YouTube makes it for all this to happen.  It's not worth their resources most of the time to have an investigation like this.

I thought they were on the ball ????

I had one of my shorts posted on Youtube and because it was posted by the producer as well, they sent me a copyright infringement notice to take it down.

Once I advised Youtube that I was the writer and had an agreement with the Producer to use the video myself, they dropped the case.

I thought they where very professional about it and my contact with them was great.

Regards Alex

Quoted from danbotha If they don't I'll threaten them with legal action. I won't actually go through with it and I have no idea of what my rights are, but they don't know that, do they? Sending a very strongly worded message now.

The problem with threatening to sue is that most of the people who make these shorts and put them on youtube are starving film students; they have nothing to take.

Write the filmmakers and politely tell them to take it down.  Then contact youtube tell them the that the film violates copyright law; they'll take it down to avoid a lawsuit of their own.


Phil

Hey Daniel,

I'm late to the party.
So, I get to play the Captain Hindsight card. :P


First off... Congrats on being worth stealing. ;D
I know it stings big time. But there's a backhanded compliment there too. :)

I'm sure these kids aren't going to profit off this deal.
So, a simple credit on the film can remedy a lot of bad feelings.
And then REQUEST that the kids send you a DVD with the amended credits.

Take the slight with a smile.
You never know, these kids could hit it big some day! :)

Hope it works out for you.

Regards,
E.D.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer First off... Congrats on being worth stealing. ;D I know it stings big time. But there's a backhanded compliment there too. :) E.D.

That's what hurts the most, having material that's not even worth stealing!

:'( lol

Eoin

They have responded to my message. Turns out they were informed by their film instructor that it was fine! Do they not teach these things in school?!

Quoted from mcornetto YouTube won't take a film down.

YouTube took the film down based on the evidence I provided. I'm currently discussing the matter with the Producer and if he chooses to do so, I have given him permission to post the film up again so long as my name is mentioned in the credits.

Problem half solved. Thanks to everyone for their support, both on this thread and on the Youtube page, itself. Michael and Kevin Albers both left comments sticking up for me and that is appreciated.  To everyone else, thanks for the suggestions of how I can better handle this if it is to ever happen again.

Being the paranoid person I am, I have now chosen to search Youtube every two months or so for any stolen material.

I have also asked for the contact details of the film insturctor, so I can kindly remind them that these films aren't up for anyone to grabs. The writers at SS still reserve their rights... Most of us are open to students using our content free of charge anyway so long as we get a mention. Whether I contact the film instructor or not is still undecided.

Thanks again everyone for the support :)

Dan

Dan,

How did you find it?  Did they use the same title?

Jordan

Jordan I read through Zack's threads where the same thing has happened to him, so I searched YouTube with the same titles and got a match for 'Walk Away'.

Dan

Quoted from mcornetto YouTube won't take a film down.

They did when I reported that my copyrighted scripts was produced without my permission.  Hell, I had two of Screenrider's shorts taken down because SR used my sockpuppet photo without my permission.

Quoted from danbotha Turns out they were informed by their film instructor that it was fine! Do they not teach these things in school?!

Copyright law allows for the duplication of copyrighted work for educational purposes.  While your script can be filmed for a filmmaking class, posting it online (or entering it in a competition) falls outside the educational purposes basket.

All from my experience...


Phil

Your letter must have already scared the heck out of them.

How the States deals with things is confusing, but it's my understanding that while the exact words, characters, and narrative can be copyrighted, a concept cannot be, and that with most forms of art (i know for a fact with images, but am only 50/50 on script legality), that if 15% or more of the fundamental work is changed or adapted in some way different, they are/may be within their rights. How exact was it to the original, then? Sounds like it might be fully stolen... the key is their intent.

The letter was good. Alex's advice was good, as is Hawkeye's... right on the money. The kid's response only so so... the professor out of bounds just slightly as Phil said. In fact, anything posted on youtube or facebook belongs to those sites, including student work. By doing so, it is not technically even their own if even they were allowed to use it. It's one thing to make your own versions of storyboards to Batman (for example) or something in your own interpretation as part of an assignment. Something in your own hand is your own, period, when drawn, because each hand is unique even when working on the same picture.

It may be similar holding a camera and shooting your own version of a famous scene... we did a Dick Tracy gimmick for lighting, for example, a brief cut of a crazy old classic... but I've never heard of a professor giving an assignment to take an unproduced script and use it. It's bad form, and non-creative to say the least. They'll learn nothing. Glad they responded, but the standing dilemma is valid. Youtube posting is out of bounds for an unproduced written work to be made-to-screen without permission, because they took your's and gave it to that site. Had they asked permission... been smart... well, most people would be happy to help some students - granted, with the proper credit.

I hope they learn this from your contact, or get out if they don't. Glad youtube did the legwork.
For these kids, dumb idea either way.

Youtube owned it while up. If they are at a level to have a professor, they could/should pay the small fee to post on something like Indigogo. A professional or future professional should just know to, if informed, and maybe they would if it were original? But it's not. They could never claim this, there. If they tried that with this one, THEN they would have been claiming a more serious creative ownership, and then you would have had definite legal recourse to shoot for credit or compensation.

As it is, they probably put it on youtube to show off to their friends, or be cheap.

If not, and they think this will give them cred or a shot at anything, they probably have the combined IQ of a jar of mayonnaise.

Note on those technical details:

The 15% precedent has been set in cases ranging from the Vanilla Ice bass line vs Bowie's "Under Pressure," to Shepard Fairey's "Obama-Hope" image... I don't know how it applies here. I think it might, though, in some form.

The ownership of all work posted rule on youtube, facebook, and other social sites, is in their terms and conditions at sign-up (note to all). A smart designer or artist, for example, uses a site like DeviantArt that respects personal copyrights, and even posts watermarks on the artist's behalf if opted for. I put my student drawings on facebook, for example, but anything else in my portfolio from personal to freelance design cannot be, and goes to a professional site. Also, those are all mine to choose with. Original and/or in-bounds. There are sites like this for film students under the same rules. Their professor should be taken out into the woods...

A film student more than any other type has a special responsibility all throughout their careers, as even their student work may some day be scrutinized, to define them, and their integrity and word will mean everything. Their portfolio and demo-reels as a whole will mean everything.

Terrible move. They should know better. Just.... not a smart move by these guys.



For my own scripts so far, this is the one benefit of my having focused way over-budget with every idea.
If they can make a half-mile high demon king, they can have it.  

Quoted from WillJonassen The letter was good. Alex's advice was good, as is Hawkeye's... right on the money. The kid's response only so so... the professor out of bounds just slightly as Phil said. In fact, anything posted on youtube or facebook belongs to those sites, including student work. By doing so, it is not technically even their own if even they were allowed to use it. It's one thing to make your own versions of storyboards to Batman (for example) or something in your own interpretation as part of an assignment. Something in your own hand is your own, period, when drawn, because each hand is unique even when working on the same picture.

The second time this had happened to me, it was by a high school film teacher.  He sent me an e-mail saying it was a class project and that it was on youtube.  I sent an e-mail to Youtube, the dean of the school as well as the teacher saying it was copyrighted work and that I was negotiating a deal with a filmmaker out in California; this copy was jeopardizing it.  I received a bunch of apologies and the video was down within the hour.


Phil

Hey Dan

Congrats on your script being worthy enough to be stole :D  You're obviously a good writer.

But as you state, credit where credit is due and it's kinda messed up that a film instructor would tell his students that it's ok to steal.

I'm glad you're getting it sorted out, it's your own work after all and good job on the SS guys for helping.

Mark

p.s. now if I can only get someone to steal my crap :D

Quoted from dogglebe The second time this had happened to me, it was by a high school film teacher. Phil

Interesting!  As crummy as my school can be, they have been dead-on clear about copyright stuff... probably, because they have enough legal issues of other sorts, all ready.

But in your case... I guess they kinda had to go bock, post-sock.     >.<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqkSqReKxGU&list=UUNc-WY5-RjcF9blTNWzFuEg&index=1

Problem solved. Good to see my name in a film :)

Hey Dan,

Partly solved !!!!! It is still ambiguous !!!!!!!

After "Written By Daniel Botha" a couple of other names appear. It makes it look like it was written by the three of you !!!!!

Just the way it felt to me !!!!!

Alex

Legally, the issue's resolved. Ethically, there's still blood to be had. Socially, justice must be served.

If it were me, I'd get the name of the professor and their school and give Professor Jerkface what-for. Maybe even the school itself. I mean, if a professor like that didn't have the knowledge or experience in our profession to know that this was a no-no, then what other nonsense are they putting into their kids' heads?

Either they need to buck up and learn/teach what's really out there or the school needs to find someone who knows what they're talking about. People are paying this school money that they don't have to send themselves or their kids to this professor's class and the professor's just teaching out of their ***. That ain't right. If these kids really want to learn about our craft and industry, then this is a pretty important thing to know early on. If their profs can't be bothered to teach them, then we should do it ourselves and make sure the prof watches it.

Don't **** with writers. We mess **** up.

So how often do you all have your scripts stolen and produced without your permission?  Is this common, or is it something that just happens every once-in-a-while?

As a professor myself (not of film) I am very aware that students will take the easy route and try to pass off other people's work as their own.  As a result, I try my best to avoid giving class assignments that can easily be plagiarized.

I think it was James who said something along the lines of "you've gotta take the good with the bad with SS". I could agree more. At the end of the day, this sort of thing can happen to anyone. That's one of the negatives of posting to a public forum.

The positives are pretty much endless. You get to network, meet heaps of other writers and producers, learn how to improve your craft and above all, we do get noticed. Short films in particular get a lot of exposure on this site. Providing it's cheap enough to film, it's probably going to get filmed. Who knows? These guys who are just "starting out" could one day hit it big. In the long run, that's the sort of connection that you're going to need.

Additionally, these kids weren't trying to rip me off. They apologized about ten times and changed the credits to suite what I wanted. I ended up writing an email to the school, stating how professional they had acted.

Dan