Daddy's Girl by Harry Deckard (thegoose) - Short, Horror - A cynical young man meets his girlfriend's father to ask for her hand in marriage but her father isn't quite the man he had expected. 15 pages - pdf, format 8)

Thanks for getting this up so quick, Don!

I'm happy to review other people's work for a few looks on this. It is actually part of a feature length, low-budget piece that I have been thinking about for a while. Although I'll explain more once I've had a few reviews!

Hey Harry,

I haven't read anything by you before, so naturally I'm intrigued, specially because you have so many posts.

pg. 1, no age on IWAN?

pg. 2, "Iwan walks through a series of relatively empty streets.
Stopping to occasionally comb his hair in a car window or
practice a greeting in a shop window." -- Might be better to reword. The second phrase is a fragment of a sentence.

"Iwan is forced to stop as a stream of loud, banner and sign
waving ACTIVISTS are coming along the pavement." -- Might be better to reword "is forced to stop" as that confused me for a bit.

pg. 3,
"might work if
William Shakespeare was somehow
writing the screenplay of my
life...but as my life is more than
likely written by some struggling
b-movie hack I doubt that..."

Gave me a short chuckle... but I assume you do realize that this is drawing attention to itself. It's braking the fourth wall.

"
LUCY
Oh don’t worry, she said you were
lovely.
IWAN
You’ll have to remind me to thank
her for using such a passionate
noun to describe me." -- Lovely is a noun?

pg.5,
"As Lucy and Iwan enter the well-kept, tastefully decorated
property." -- This is not a sentence.

MRS. BARNETT no age?

"MR. BARNETT himself is crudely tied onto the bed by a large
length of rope. He looks to be in his mid-fifties, and would
be a fairly standard looking older gent if he weren’t a
partially decomposed zombie." -- No age? Also, it might be better to describe him some after you introduce him and then finish off with "is crudely tied onto the bed...." That way its easier to visualize him first, then visualize how he's tied. The way you wrote, I imagined a guy in a robe crudely tied onto the bed by a large rope and I was like, damn, kinky family. Not until I read the next sentence did I have to replace that with a zombie looking visual. So don't put the cart before the horse.

"Lucy and Mrs. Barnett exit. Closing the door behind them." -- When you use the -ing form of the verb to close, you make the action seem continuous from the previous sentence. So why have two seperate sentences? If you're aiming for brevity and pacing, then say "close the door behind them" as that would indicate, to me, an action not suboridante to the "exit".

"Iwan stands for a few seconds awkwardly looking at Lucy’s
reanimated father. Who appears to pay him little attention." -- Same as before. Second phrase is a fragment.

"Who grumbles and salivates as he gets
closer." -- Same here. I've never encountered this before. It's kind of strange. Now if you had broke it up on different action lines and use em dash, at the end of every action line and then continue on the next line, that's understandable. But the way you brake it up is somewhat strange to me.

Those were about the only issues I could spot. My thoughts on the story are that it was okay. I expected a darker ending. It's not great but also not bad. It's fairly straightforward so that's a plus. But it didn't quite excite me as much as I would have hoped it would.

Good luck with it and in your future projects.

-J.S.

thanks for your thoughts!

Is a noun not a word to describe someone? Or am I horribly wrong...haha, high school English was a long time ago.

"Iwan walks through a series of relatively empty streets.
Stopping to occasionally comb his hair in a car window or
practice a greeting in a shop window." -- Might be better to reword. The second phrase is a fragment of a sentence."

Now, say I was an actor (I actually play Iwan) or a director. By reading this paragraph I'd know exactly what I'd be filming. Main character walks through streets. Nervous. Looking at his appearance in reflective services and practising greetings.

"might work if
William Shakespeare was somehow
writing the screenplay of my
life...but as my life is more than
likely written by some struggling
b-movie hack I doubt that..." -- yeah, I'm going to cut the second part of this out.

As for the darker ending - would almost be too cliche if Iwan was eaten unceremoniously. This is also adapted from a mockumentary/social comedy piece I'm doing called "Dating After the Zombie Apocalypse". Iwan is in it quite a bit, and as you can probably tell from his dialogue he's far too clever to end up zombie bait.

Now the issue with fragment I understand, however - this is not a novel. In a lot of screenplays that I've seen descriptions are often split into tiny sentences. It almost adds impact to what's going on - breaks down what each character is doing.


"pg.5,
"As Lucy and Iwan enter the well-kept, tastefully decorated
property." -- This is not a sentence."

- Our shot changes to an interior shot of the house as Lucy and Iwan enter...

Hi Harry. Gave this a quick read  I wasn't too sure what to expect.

To be honest, his really didn't do it for me, and it didn't do it on a number of levels, unfortunately.

I guess my main complaint is the way that the characters are drawn and the way in which they interact with each other and the story. There's some real inconsistencies in there which I think you're going to have to iron out if you want to turn this into a feature. BTW, and IMO there is nothing here that indicates this will work as a feature.

First off, you give more description to the shopkeeper who play no further part in the script than you do to the main protag. A couple of pages in, I really felt like I needed something on Iwan, as I found it tricky getting his tone and his intent. Was he a bumbling idiot, or a sharper straight man.

Your wrylies are out BTW - they're formatted as dialogue.

Iwan's walk down the street marks him out as a bumbler - so here he is the object of the comedy, and we're so supposed to laugh at him.

Lucy is then introduced, and she strikes me as the sort of person who wouldn't strike a relationship with Iwan, so I'm wondering if I've missed something, or if I've got Iwan wrong in my mind.

Iwan's following dialogue with Lucy, seems to paint him as less of a comedy figure, and their is nothing remotely strange about Lucy here - that's fine if there is nothing remotely strange about Lucy later on - except that there is, so then her character is looking like it's not well placed.

Lucy's Mum is a little better - she seems a little off-kilter, so we're less surprised when odd things happen and her reaction is that this is 'perfectly normal'.

On Lucy introducing Iwan to her father - she is now clearly as mad as bunny, and of course that gives the whole story a different bent to it.

I think you need to think about how these people are relating to the whole situation - making it too normal takes the comedic edge off it - it's fine that it's normal for the Mum - 'cos she's clearly a couple of pennies short, but a lot of the comedic element would be found in the fact that for Lucy, this is a completely mad situation that she's introducing her boyfriend into.

Sorry to be negative, but it jst didn't fit right for me.

Quoted from the goose Is a noun not a word to describe someone? Or am I horribly wrong...

Nouns are a part of speech typically denoting a person, place, thing, animal or idea.

An adjective is a 'describing' word.

"Is a noun not a word to describe someone? Or am I horribly wrong...haha, high school English was a long time ago."

Lovely is an adjective :)

"Now, say I was an actor (I actually play Iwan) or a director. By reading this paragraph I'd know exactly what I'd be filming. Main character walks through streets. Nervous. Looking at his appearance in reflective services and practising greetings."

I would assume it was written to be filmed as a series of shots. But my issue was with "stopping" which is a present continuous form of the verb to stop. So for example: "Joe walked past the car, glancing inside." The main action is Joe's walking and while he's doing that, a subordinate action occurs, his glancing. So I think it's not so much a problem that you brake it up as you do, beginning with the verb that is, but that you use the -ing form of the verbs. But in the case in particular, I think it doesn't quite make sense to brake it up that way because this is all a series of shots anyway.

"Iwan walks through a series of relatively empty streets, occasionally stopping to comb his hair in a car window or
practice a greeting in a shop window."

This one sentence would indicate to me, if I directed it, that this is a series of shots whereupon I would make sure at least one of them included Iwan stopping to comb his hair, and one where he is practicing a greeting in a shop window. It's not that your previous two phrases were bad per se. They just didn't have a nicer flow for me.

"As for the darker ending - would almost be too cliche if Iwan was eaten unceremoniously."

You're right about that. Although, oddly, I sort of wanted that for some reason :P
Could you maybe play up the lovey-dovey romance so that you may raise the stakes a bit more?

Hey Goose, gave this a look.  Stopped after 3 pages.  IMO, there are many issues running rampant here.

First and foremost, IMO, 3+ pages is way too long to have this guy walking around, talking to himself.  It's dull and isn't going anywhere.  The stuff in the store right out of the gate is totally unnecessary.  If it's meant to be a comedy, maybe, but it's not really funny.  You label this as horror, and for a short, way too much non horror up front.

I read JS's comments, and I agree 100% with what he's saying about your writing, sentence structure, etc.  You don't have to always write in whole, perfect sentences, but what you're doing makes no sense and really detracts from the read.

In reality, the way you're writing this, it's almost as if you want it to be adlibbed (and I even saw an adlibbed dialogue, which to me is the ultimate in lazy ass writing).

Your descriptions aren't good either.  They're not remotely visual.  A bigger problem is that your descriptions seem to jump around, meaning, you're not fully realizing 1 thought before you jump to a new one.  Your passages should be broken up based on shots, descriptions of something, or "thoughts".  Your passages contain multiple shots, thoughts, and descriptions.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take the time necessary to completely explain myself, but hopefully you understand or someone else will come in and word it better.

Bottom line is that your writing isn't good here at all, in many different ways.  I don't mean to be harsh, just want to help.

Take care.

Okay right:

You see there's been a zombie epidemic, so this is set after that. Now as you can imagine it unchains people a little bit upstairs, makes them a bit funny. Imagine if a loved one was bitten and still there as a zombie. Now clearly, Lucy's mum has sort of lost it. And if you're Lucy what do you do? Part of her still wants her father to be her father, but deep down she knows how bad things are - which is reflected at times in her dialogue. But, imagine being a girl in your early twenties - going through that whole zombie thing, knowing your mother is messed up - and then having your father there like that. How do you react?

You have to see though - with Iwan, he had no idea that this was waiting for him - so Lucy probably seemed pretty normal.

Iwan isn't necessarily a bungler, a man with very dry wit - which he uses to cover up his nervousness. And as you can tell he's very nervous as he heads to meet her father.

Yep parentheticals were out - this was my first piece with celtx so I was wrestling with it and in the end I resigned.  

Don't worry about the negativity, didn't you get the memo? It's the 21st century haha, who worries about daft things such as positivity!!

Quoted from Dreamscale I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take the time necessary to completely explain myself, but hopefully you understand or someone else will come in and word it better. Bottom line is that your writing isn't good here at all, in many different ways.  I don't mean to be harsh, just want to help. Take care.

Oops sorry, I meant to add some text. I'll just leave this above quote to rest here though ^

Yeah thanks for the read, genre-wise it can be perceived as several things, although of course one might have to go further than three pages to fully gain an understanding of something (or to find something funny - not saying it is). To me, it is a tad like me watching Die Hard for the first time - turning off after 3 minutes and exclaiming that it isn't an action film. I use Die Hard as it starts a little differently to most action films - most start with some sort of gunfight to either prove how tough the hero is or how ruthless the baddies are (or maybe both).

Out of interest, Dreamscale, what do you have on this site? I'd like to read - and don't worry I'll make it through to the end.

AD-LIBBING maybe perceived as lazy writers, but I've found that it is easier to offer up basic guidelines of what to say for extras, rather than give them straight forward dialogue. Basically the part with the activists was merely just random things for them to shout, their dialogue isn't
really hugely vital and in fact if they were holding up signs those lines could easily be scrapped and just replaced by their general noise as they come past.

I suppose partially reviewing something and then saying you don't want to waste your time explaining what you mean to the writer could be seen as lazy writing too...ohhh....just kidding haha!

But yeah, thankyou for the partial read and I really do respect all the views I get on here, but as with my reviews I would prefer if something was read the whole way through. There are many things that I've tried to read on here and not gotten through, and due to this factor haven't delivered any sort of critique, for a lot of the young writers on here I'd hate to pop up and basically say "Your script was so bad I couldn't read on" in so many words. Whether it be a hobby or just a form of expression writing means so much to those who do it, many people hide their imagination - but we as writers are putting it up there for all to see, almost a maternal thing. And to hear that the baby you nurtured cannot even be read? Haha, heartbreaking stuff.

Okay I'm joking there, but you know!

I don't mean for that to sound at all argumentative or anything, because it isn't meant to be at all - in my head - just sort of something I've often thought to myself when I've read through reviews on here from all sorts of people to all sorts of different pieces.

Hey Goose,

I didn't finish this, sorry!  Too many mistakes and I didn't find it easy to get into.

The writing I think is okay.  You have mistakes throughout.  You didn't put Iwan's age in parenthesis.  And I thought the opening was a little bit too long and meandered.  Get to your point quickly, because so far it doesn't have a horror vibe.

"Iwan is forced to stop as a stream of loud, banner and sign
waving ACTIVISTS are coming along the pavement."" -- Really bad line.  Needs reworded, try -

"Iwan stops as a loud crowd of sign-waving ACTIVISTS walk down the pavement."  (I think it works better.)

Your wrylies are also wrongly formatted.  But I think maybe that's to do with your software, I used to have Celtx (it looks like you're using Celtx) and I sometimes had the same problem.

You also write passively a lot.  This was a line I noticed at the start -- "Iwan walks through a series of relatively empty streets, occasionally stopping to comb his hair in a car window or
practice a greeting in a shop window."

How about: "Iwan walks through empty streets.  He stops occasionally to comb his hair in a car window. ??? -- the whole practicing greetings in a shop window seems contrived and unrealistic.  I sensed he was nervous, but it came off as very cheesy and out of place -- and it especially stood out for something that is classed as HORROR.

Anyways, good luck with whatever direction you take this.  I skimmed over past comments and didn't really read them, so apologizes if all my feedback is repeated.  Overall, I think you have a good story here.  You just need to get the horror vibe going from page one, since this is a short, and you don't have the gift of being able to build up the "horror" like you'd have with a feature. :)

-- Curt

Hey Goose, or Harry, which ever you prefer, buddy.

I like reading some of your posts around here lately...

So it's hard for me to say this.  I've been contemplating all day...

But I guess I should say something and I'm not going to be harsh at all.

Probably because there's nothing to be harsh about.

Nothing terribly wrong goes on in your short, but it didn't engage me either.

At all.

I just wasn't digging it for some reason.

Maybe it was your use of descriptions and your protag.

Jeff hits on some points that I won't reiterate.

Yeah this is adapted from a feature length that I've got about 75 pages of.

The feature is built up from a few different intertwining characters. Another character is JED, who works at  cemetery and this means he spends most his nights patrolling the area to ensure that none of the residents rise again. However, one night his meddling sister arranges a dinner date for him - to get his struggling love life going - this means he has to balance cooking her chicken with making sure none of the zombies are about outside - and of course making sure she doesn't see. As nothing puts you off your bbq chicken like a rotting undead head.

A lot of it is a bit of a satire really. People campaigning for zombie rights, people wanting to have zombie relationships - some trying to train zombies to do basic tasks (which leads to more campaigning about zombie slavery).

In the actual piece Lucy is pretty down to Earth, but she doesn't want to upset her mum - who has gone quite dotty. Many aspects of it are shot like a mockumentary so there is a fair bit of talking to the camera - which I imagine wouldn't go down too well on the board.

It kind of plays on the day-to-day situation of having an in-law who is unable to look after himself (e.g. being a zombie) and wanting to put him in a home. Which is Iwan's stance on the whole situation.

It does actually end in a horribly cringeworthy wedding scene, where Lucy's mum turns up with her father - desperate for him to walk her down the aisle. Which really tests Lucy as to how far she can take her mum's apparent madness - and of course pisses Iwan off royally.

The only thing I really liked about this was the fact that the protagonist was exceedingly dry and aware of everything. A lot of shorts like this, as I mentioned earlier, would have had him fed to the father.

But a physically fit, sharp-minded bloke would most likely have been able to get out of that situation - especially if the father was tied down.

As with all of us who like to write - I'm a storyteller first and foremost, so I've got a very thick skin when it comes to criticisms about sluglines etc - I'd rather get the story right first, and if it really isn't at all engaging then sometimes you have to admit that to yourself and move on. I think there's evidence in that script that I know how to format something, even if sentences etc were a little off. Admittedly though I did knock this up in about an hour and half from the original script, I just thought it would be nice to have something up here that was short (which is a genre I normally avoid like the plague) to get a few reviews on.

I must say however, it does seem that a lot of people won't persevere with a script on here at all unless it is completely and utterly of a professional standard. And as a lot of us are still learning our trade, that makes things difficult with regards to feedback.  When I'm reviewing a script if I see that dialogue is centred, INT. etc are used - then I will try as hard as I can to make it to the end so I can give them a critique - story first, then layout second. Spell checking as well isn't something I can critique too much either - I respect 90% of writers on this site as intelligent people, so I'm sure they can spellcheck a final draft before submitting it to a producer or agent etc. As a reviewer and poster on here I feel my job is to let someone know whether they've got something here or not, as opposed to hacking their layout. If a story is a plant, the lay out is the leaves - what's more important is the roots - the story. The leaves are of course important, but you need the root there in the first place. And, as I've conceded, perhaps with this adaptation I don't have something - and I'm fine with that!

Because it could be the smoothest, best-slugged, best-laid out piece in the whole world but if the story isn't there in the first place then - as some say 'you can't polish a turd'.

And you can't. Believe me I've tried. And it takes a lot of handwash to get back to normal.

Wouldn't let me edit my post off my phone - but I meant leafs!! Not leaves!

Hi Harry. You raise some interesting points. You script is clearly in the back-drop of certain events that make it make sense. Point is, that you haven't laid out those back-ground events. And the annoying thing is, that you could have easily done that -- Iwan spends too much time wandering down the street doing nothing much - there is ample time there to stick in a quick reference - on a news-stall; TV in a shop window whilst he's doing his hair - all of this puts your story into perspective quickly and easily, and changes how we look at it quite considerably.

Your point about feedback - it's all opinion, but I recently saw some complaints from a producer about some work he saw on Talentville. My understanding is that TV goes more for story than SS. He moaned and moaned about spelling, grammar, all that end of stuff just being unacceptable.

The fact is, that you need the finished product - and a professionally completed script is a well-laid out, grammatically correct, spell-checked, structured, well told, compelling story with engaging characters. All these factors have to play well together, or the stuff you're not doing well is going drag-down the stuff you are doing well.

Quoted from Forgive Hi Harry. You raise some interesting points. You script is clearly in the back-drop of certain events that make it make sense. Point is, that you haven't laid out those back-ground events. And the annoying thing is, that you could have easily done that

Well I adapted this screenplay from the feature length, the scenes with the shop keeper etc don't really happen. Although there is a bit of the 'much-loved' sequence where Iwan is practicing his speech - however he is being followed by cameras due to a mockumentary style, so I think the adaptation on that fell flat.

As for this being in the backdrop of other events, I thought it might be a bit too blatant and contrived to have something like a news broadcast, I felt that with the activists and the dialogue about the epidemic it gave away enough.

I'm debating finishing off the feature length and putting it on here - however I'm worried it may have a pre-conceived frosty reception due to the feedback that this short has garnered.

I realise I've probably written several essays with my comments, but I've been on and off this site for several years now (after being a major player after this board was initially launched) and have noticed some aspects have shifted to it being more of a 'proof-reading' service, with the additional flavour of the occasional "this was so intolerable that I couldn't get through even the first few pages" thrown in to add some spice to the scripting stir-fry. When I was first on this site between say 12-17 (no one knew my age) if some of my scripts (which were awful) had received some of the stuff I've seen written to writers here who have written fairly decent pieces - then I'm confident that I would never have written again. Although, as my writing clearly shows - I haven't in a while.

I've got 'Sharks & Snakes' posted on the series if anyone fancies giving that a look too; it has some characters who interact a little like Iwan.

And in other news its a lovely day - who fancies a premium lager?

I disagree, as I think I can "persevere" so long as there's some style, some flair, going on.  I've read scripts (even fan-fics) that didn't totally stick to the formatting standard, but the style and substance of it, kept me hooked.

Ouch! Haha, no I know what you mean! Thanks for giving it the time of day at any rate!

Agh... I didn't really mean to draw an "ouch" comment from you.

To me, that's the worst.  I feel like I deeply offended you now.   :-/ :-/

Regardless, I will check out any other script you post because of 2 reasons.

1- you seem like a genuine good guy around these parts, and

2- you read and comment on the work of others.

:)

Hmmm

try  http://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/sharkssnakespilot.pdf out for size.

Thanks for making me your first post - almost feel honoured.

I'd prepare a speech for such an honour, but at heart I am but a humble man.

Haha, nah - I enjoyed offline I think it is definitely a well written piece!

On another note - do you have any scripts up on this site that I could perhaps use as divine inspiration/a template?

Thanks again for the read.

You're joining a great board, head over to the getting to know you page and introduce yourself, what you write and where you want to end up. It didn't come off harsh as a first post, but in many ways its like - a few acquaintances discussing a dodgy jumper one of them is wearing.

Instead of saying "hi I'm...." You've just rolled right up to them and denounced the offending garment. Which, as constructive as it is, may not be the most effective way to make an entrance. The guy in the jumper might even think you only walked over to provide a fashion analysis.

As for over-writing - at heart I'm a novelist so it catches up. Sometimes.

Goose, I've followed along here and tried to stay out, but I can't.

It seems like every comment that isn't glowingly positive offends you.  You don't seem to want to hear about what's wrong with your writing and you seem surprised when peeps don't read your entire script.

Telling it like it is, is the only way to go, otherwise peeps don't ever know what they're doing wrong...and never will.

Don't be offended or upset by comments intended to help.  Take everything in and don't make up excuses about why you did this, or didn't do that.  You can and should learn from all this..you really should.

And I don't mean this to be harsh at all.  But I think you do need to hear it.  Be thankful for everything you get and use it to become a better writer.

Good luck, man.

Haha, yeah I see what you mean - as you may have gathered from my other posts on this board I'm never one for much conflict.

I've followed this board for a while now quite passively, as well - but just here
I've raised a few issues that have been sort of troubling me slightly for a while now, unfortunately I haven't come across as well as I hoped. In the end making myself look like the classically scorned 'artiste' who has taken it upon himself to defend his flawed 'masterpiece' from the masses of well-meaning critics. Raising issues in response to comments on your own script is a bad choice, for future reference!

Although I'll be honest with you, it does surprise me when someone says that they couldn't make it through a script. On many other scripts, asides from mine -yes there are some that are formatted so far away from industry standard that it is impossible. But if someone has their INTs, EXTs and dialogue etc in the right places then I will always try my best to get to the end of that script before summing up my views, because personally (and this is all opinion) I would like to sculpt a well-rounded review from the whole thing. Coming from a teaching background, however, maybe I'm a little softer in my approach to criticism.

Anyway, in short, I'm going to leave my points at the door from now on and continue here (unless the next post is so challenging that I can't stop myself from replying haha!), because I love the community - especially after seeing it grow from a site that didn't even have a messageboard to what it is now.

However, if anyone would like to message me to discuss things further then I'm more than happy, because I do feel that I have some input I've just chosen the wrong thread to go into it.

Happy writing!

Goose, responding to feedback and even defending your opinion is fine and appreciated...always.

The point is this - any feedback you get has to be considered good feedback and it's free and everyone is giving their time to read and comment on your script.  You really shouldn't say things like, well, "I wish you would have read the entire script", or "I don't need an editor, I need story advice", etc.

You know?

Not trying to be an ass at all, and your input on these boards is appreciated as is everyone's.

Pre-emptive lock at author request to avert any potential silliness.

From the tone of the email, he might even be concerned about the potential for silliness on his own part.

Just a temporary measure, I am sure.  Will open back up at author's request.