Normally I'd throw up around about now... but I opened up his chart and was impressed at the dedication. So I swallowed it, not bad with coffee.

That is his job though, I bet he loves doing that just as much as we love writing.

Maybe we should all get a dedications thread? Anyone that makes one for me, I will return the favour. Just put my name in the title of the thread and tell everyone how great I am. I promise, you'll get your own thread too.

Quoted from Ledbetter It's not his job here Dustin! It was something he did to help the community as a whole. Hard as it may be for you to understand, no one asked me to post this thread and I didn't do it in hope of anything in return. This community really apperciates Ray and his efforts. You want your own thread? Try doing something worthy of one. Then we'll see... Shawn.....><

Well... that went down well. Clearly, sarcasm isn't your strong point.

I meant his job as a Producer... he doing the chart is his way of doing what he loves... isn't it?

There's a time and a place for sarcasm…

On a post where people are genuinely offering appreciation is neither the time nor place.

Shawn.....><

Quoted from Ledbetter There's a time and a place for sarcasm… On a post where people are genuinely offering appreciation is neither the time nor place. Shawn.....><

That's the exact time and place for it. This isn't a wake.

Don't forget to keep reminding yourself that this thread was started out of pure appreciation for making some charts. That he wanted to do anyway... that doesn't actually help anyone but himself or possibly anyone he works with. He's looking for shorts to fit a budget... a producer I'm working with works at a grand per minute for the short he's making. So clearly that would be out of this price range... but that does not stand for every producer.

You keep pretending that this thread isn't about sticking your nose up an ass.

Quoted from CrusaderVoice RayW efforts are particularly interesting to people (like me) who have NO idea how any that works and how a script is seen through those types of eyes. I found myself reading his notes on nearly every script entered in the OWC. Regardless what I thought of the script, I was curious to see a producer's take and potential cost estimates and production obstacles.

What you don't seem to understand is that what are obstacles and cost estimates to one producer will not equate to another producer's.

Unless you work with Ray, what he thinks about production value isn't worth all that much as he is only considering his own obstacles. Indeed this is all he can do.

The best way to learn about production values is to get something made, work with a producer. Until then, keep writing and don't think about cost. Write what you want to write. Let producers worry about cost. That's their job.

Quoted from DustinBowcot What you don't seem to understand is that what are obstacles and cost estimates to one producer will not equate to another producer's.

Hey Dustin, not trying to get into an argument or anything, but surely cost estimates will be roughly similar across the board? Ie, the cost of hiring XX will be same for producer A and producer B, because the cost of the product won't change?

How did this devolve into such a clusterfuck in less than four hours? The purpose of the thread was to acknowledge the extra effort of one member. There are obviously some people who like what he does, even if it's on a morbid curiosity level. Others, it's actually helpful for (maybe they don't have an idea of what the cost of filming would be going in, but this gives them a ballpark figure). Dustin, if you don't appreciate or find value in it, don't pay attention to it. That's not exactly a foreign concept...

Quoted from DustinBowcot You keep pretending that this thread isn't about sticking your nose up an ass.

You shouldn't make comments like that unless you're man enough to say it to his face.  (in person)  And if that was the case Ledbetter would clearly mop the floor with your scrawny ass.

Only a punk makes comments like you do over the Internet.   :D  You're so pitiful.

Quoted from Toby_E Hey Dustin, not trying to get into an argument or anything, but surely cost estimates will be roughly similar across the board? Ie, the cost of hiring XX will be same for producer A and producer B, because the cost of the product won't change?

Not exactly. It all depends what the producer has on hand. I know people that can produce a feature for less than $20K because they have all the equipment they need for shooting and for all post work. Same thing goes for locations and actors. If you have to rent an old house with a cellar it's going to cost more than if you shoot at a mansion on the beach in Miami and you happen to know the owner and they let you shoot their for free. If you live in a town with lots of hopeful actors who'll work for free, it's going to be cheaper than if you live in my town where you would have to pay for actors to travel here and pay all there expenses. See what I mean? It all depends what the producer has at hand. My short film I made, Them That's Dead, ended up having a pretty high/minute cost due to me unwittingly shooting at very difficult locations two hours out of town. So, it all depends.  :)

Quoted from NickSedario You shouldn't make comments like that unless you're man enough to say it to his face.  (in person)  And if that was the case Ledbetter would clearly mop the floor with your scrawny ass. Only a punk makes comments like you do over the Internet.   :D  You're so pitiful.

Actually, I would tell him to his face. I'm very respectful to people unless they try to bullshit me, then I'm going to call it, no matter what. Where I'm from telling the truth and speaking your mind is very important. If I'm wrong, so what. You have to call it when you see it. Where I'm from it's called, being real.

If you want to big-up your friend and make out like he's a cage fighter and not actually have the guts to threaten me yourself that shows your true colours, not mine. You're always quick to jump in and unnecessarily stir the pot. I know I'm not the only one thinking that that is what this thread is about.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Not exactly. It all depends what the producer has on hand. I know people that can produce a feature for less than $20K because they have all the equipment they need for shooting and for all post work. Same thing goes for locations and actors. If you have to rent an old house with a cellar it's going to cost more than if you shoot at a mansion on the beach in Miami and you happen to know the owner and they let you shoot their for free. If you live in a town with lots of hopeful actors who'll work for free, it's going to be cheaper than if you live in my town where you would have to pay for actors to travel here and pay all there expenses. See what I mean? It all depends what the producer has at hand. My short film I made, Them That's Dead, ended up having a pretty high/minute cost due to me unwittingly shooting at very difficult locations two hours out of town. So, it all depends.  :)

Yeah exactly... favours from friends, cameramen that come with their own camera. Even as far as selling pieces of the profit from the film, producer points. Students with access to thousands of pounds worth of equipment. There are so many different scenarios.

I feel it is damaging if we take one producer's viewpoint on what makes a short production-worthy. Which is what seems to be happening here.

Fair enough I shouldn't have said what I did about Ledbetter, but it really does look like that was his motive. He even mentions it in his second post, defending himself against an accusation I hadn't even made yet.

@ Boycott - Me stir the pot?   Nah, I just don't care for pompous, arrogant little pricks like you.  But hey, we've all got our issues.  I have plenty. ;)  And you definitely wouldn't wanna square off with me, face to face.  I'd hit you so hard your dead relatives would feel it.  ;)

How's that for a threat?  Feel better now?  Good, now piss off.

Quoted from NickSedario @ Boycott - Me stir the pot?   Nah, I just don't care for pompous, arrogant little pricks like you.  But hey, we've all got our issues.  I have plenty. ;)  And you definitely wouldn't wanna square off with me, face to face.  I'd hit you so hard your dead relatives would feel it.  ;) How's that for a threat?  Feel better now?  Good, now piss off.

Maybe you'll get the chance one day. I'd definitely like to see it.

How about you just take pictures of your dicks, email them to each other and compare sizes?

I'm just kidding, go on doing what you're doing. I'm just surprised seeing arguments like this on a forum for writers.

Schoolyard fist fight type stuff.

Here's one definite - wherever Boycock goes, trouble follows soon after.

The point of the thread was a shout out to Ray for all the work he did here, and has done for many OWC's in the past.

I had no idea Ray was a Producer or film maker, either, and I do agree that some of his "findings" are a little on the humorous side, but there's nothing wrong with that.  Nothing at all.

We all give our perspectives and opinions and that's what makes the world go 'round.  Disagreements are another definite but there's never any reason for the crap that Boycock consistently spews out of his flaming asshole.

Give it a rest, Dusty...please...

Quoted from Neighbour I'm just surprised seeing arguments like this on a forum for writers.

Oh, that's what Simpy Scripts is all about!! Let them... Reminds me of good old times.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Maybe you'll get the chance one day. I'd definitely like to see it.

Wishful thinking.  But for now go back to your sandbox and I'll go to mine.

Later.

Quoted from Neighbour I'm just surprised seeing arguments like this on a forum for writers. Schoolyard fist fight type stuff.

Look at the bright side, Seb.  It livens the place up a bit  :D

Quoted from NickSedario Wishful thinking.  But for now go back to your sandbox and I'll go to mine.

You'd be surprised. We're in the same game. I have a lot of friends in the US and Canada through my other business also. And with the way this has gone down it would be a shame if it didn't.

Quoted from NickSedario Look at the bright side, Seb.  It livens the place up a bit  :D

Oh I agree, it`s definitely entertaining. Just like schoolyard fights are.

I only said all that stuff because I didn`t want to get heat from you guys for telling you to compare penis sizes  ;D

Quoted from DustinBowcot You'd be surprised. We're in the same game. I have a lot of friends in the US and Canada through my other business also. And with the way this has gone down it would be a shame if it didn't.

Pffft.   Whatever.  This is getting sad.  Bug off.

Quoted from NickSedario Pffft.   Whatever.  This is getting sad.  Bug off.

I'm serious though. You want to knock me out and I'd like to give you that opportunity. In as much as I possibly can. So long as it doesn't cost me anything. Obviously, I'm not going to go much out of my way... but you could always come to me, too. You're the guy making the threat, I'm only a plane ride away.

My address is available on line. Knock my front door.

Quoted from DustinBowcot I'm serious though. You want to knock me out and I'd like to give you that opportunity. In as much as I possibly can. So long as it doesn't cost me anything. Obviously, I'm not going to go much out of my way... but you could always come to me, too. You're the guy making the threat, I'm only a plane ride away. My address is available on line. Knock my front door.

:D  Seriously?

This is getting sadder by the moment.

Instead of a fight, do a writer's challenge, like the one's Cornetto used to run. Can't really throw punches over the net, so do some writer sh1t. Get someone to assign a log...you each get, I don't know, 72 hours?...then have someone neutral here post links so that the scripts are anonymous.

More interesting that forum muscles. You guys might actually get something out of it too.

Quoted from NickSedario :D  Seriously? This is getting sadder by the moment.

It is sad.  Boycock is sad.  Just look at his avatar - WTF?  Is that you Dusty, sparkin' a flame?  Do you think that's cool?  I don't.

Quoted from Dreamscale It is sad.  Boycock is sad.  Just look at his avatar - WTF?  Is that you Dusty, sparkin' a flame?  Do you think that's cool?  I don't.

It's not meant to look cool, but thanks. It's just me being me... most pix of me will have a joint hanging out of my mouth. If I was trying to look cool I'd have at least made a bigger joint and had my eyes open. My gf snapped that shot. Joint was almost done.

Quoted from KevinLenihan Instead of a fight, do a writer's challenge, like the one's Cornetto used to run. Can't really throw punches over the net, so do some writer sh1t. Get someone to assign a log...you each get, I don't know, 72 hours?...then have someone neutral here post links so that the scripts are anonymous. More interesting that forum muscles. You guys might actually get something out of it too.

I'm in.  When do we start?  :D

Quoted from KevinLenihan Instead of a fight, do a writer's challenge, like the one's Cornetto used to run. Can't really throw punches over the net, so do some writer sh1t. Get someone to assign a log...you each get, I don't know, 72 hours?...then have someone neutral here post links so that the scripts are anonymous. More interesting that forum muscles. You guys might actually get something out of it too.

I've already told him that I'm up for that challenge too. I think that should happen more often at this site. Instead of days though, we get hours. I haven't got time to concentrate on writing bullshit. We do it on the day, get it done. Like a hardcore match. I'm up for that, then the votes can take days or whatever.

Quoted from NickSedario I'm in.  When do we start?  :D

Now. Write a 5-page (or less) horror script involving a flamingo, a switchblade and aviator sunglasses in 48 hours.

KIDDING! Don't actually do this. That's just to get us off this topic and the thread back on track. This has just gotten ridiculous in the last 15 or so posts...

Quoted from Mr. Blonde Now. Write a 5-page (or less) horror script involving a flamingo, a switchblade and aviator sunglasses in 48 hours. KIDDING! Don't actually do this. That's just to get us off this topic and the thread back on track. This has just gotten ridiculous in the last 15 or so posts...

That's exactly what I'm talking about. 5 page short, 2-3 hours... not days.

Submit it by tonight?  I'm game.  What's the genre, topic, or should we just keep it open ended.  Anything goes.

We can submit dropbox links on another thread.  

Fire up your keyboards! I'll read them.  8)

Quoted from NickSedario Submit it by tonight?  I'm game.  What's the genre, topic, or should we just keep it open ended.  Anything goes. We can submit dropbox links on another thread.

It would have to be tomorrow night. I can do it around this kind of time though. We need an impartial person to set the parameters, ie the three things that must be in the story. Around this time tomorrow would be perfect for me.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Fire up your keyboards! I'll read them.  8)

Me too!

It can't be open ended. It has to have been written on the night and proved to have been. The only real way to do that is for a member or three to pick three random items that must be in the story... the items must also work. If they don't and are just added in, then that should lose heavy marks.

I think we should take tonight to finalise the rules.

Quoted from DustinBowcot It can't be open ended. It has to have been written on the night and proved to have been. The only real way to do that is for a member or three to pick three random items that must be in the story... the items must also work. If they don't and are just added in, then that should lose heavy marks. I think we should take tonight to finalise the rules.

Should be open ended.  Anything I write is gonna happen today.  Scout's honor.  The only question here is who can bang out a better script.  

But, hey, however you wanna do it.  Let's go!

You have to have some rules and things that are in both scripts - a theme, props, characters, etc.  You can go open ended, as in not setting a genre or the like, but the scripts have to be about the same thing, give or take.

Quoted from NickSedario Should be open ended.  Anything I write is gonna happen today.  Scout's honor.  The only question here is who can bang out a better script.   But, hey, however you wanna do it.  Let's go!

That's all well and good. I learned a long time ago that often what people say isn't what they actually mean. Also if this is going to be an ongoing thing, then there has to be rules.

All you will do is write a story that's been in your mind for ages... that's too easy. There has to be three items so we make an original, on-the-spot story in 2-3 hours.

Volunteering a read.

We need a moderator too to take charge of the uploads... and to set the parameters, make it look official. The moderator doesn't have to come up with them... maybe members could suggest random words and the moderator pick three of them.

Now can an MOD please move all of this over to the thread Silverback started so this one can be about its original intention please?

Shawn.....><

Quoted from DustinBowcot We need a moderator too to take charge of the uploads... and to set the parameters, make it look official. The moderator doesn't have to come up with them... maybe members could suggest random words and the moderator pick three of them.

Three random words is cool.

We'll upload with dropbox links.  keep it simple, IMO.

Quoted from Ledbetter Now can an MOD please move all of this over to the thread Silverback started so this one can be about its original intention please? Shawn.....><

I don't think Ray really gives a rip.   :D

What fresh hell is this?  

Seriously, guys.  This is the second time I have to go in and clear out a thread because of fucking juvenile name calling.  If I have to keep doing this, I will fucking ban everyone involved and delete your fucking scripts from the site and you can take this shit over to another screenwriting website.  

And don't email me or pm me.  I will just delete them unread.

-Don