Thumbs up.

Enjoyed this film.

First thing I loved was the setting. It's shot on location in an old Pennsylvania steel mill town: ancient row houses, cobblestone streets, smoke belching factories, a bar that sits in the belly of a concrete world, a foot bridge over train tracks, a Civil War era prison, remnants of a once proud industrial giant...all nestled into a valley surrounded by lushly forested mountains and hills like a rusty heart within a primal beast.

The characters were freshly drawn and the acting by the all star cast very convincing.

The story is traditionally structured, and is yet another example that the STC modelers need to really rethink their assumptions. This is the log on IMDB:

When Rodney Baze mysteriously disappears and law enforcement fails to follow through, his older brother, Russell, takes matters into his own hands to find justice.

I'm guessing that's pretty close to the official log. But here's the thing: none of that happens until well after the midpoint of the story. The little brother doesn't even go missing until after the midpoint. And the big brother really doesn't take the law into his own hands until the end.

The formula used is simple. The opening scene sets up the future antagonist as a bad dude(Woody Harrelson, brilliant). Then we meet our protagonist and his wayward brother. Most of the first half of the story is about the older brother trying to keep the younger one out of trouble. The bond between the two is very effectively established. In the meantime, we see that life is bleak and hard, and there seems to be no escape...the film's theme.

The movie is not quite what I expected based on the trailer. It might even be a little disappointing from that perspective. But it's still an enjoyable film to watch. Not so much a triumph of screenwriting as one of directing, acting and camera work.

Glad to read a spoiler free review.  Sounds good.

I liked this one. It's definitely rough around the edges and in different hands could've easily been a misfire but the actors bring it to a whole other level. Every single performance in this was top notch. Bale's, in particular, was just so strong and endearing, it carried the film for me and while it may seem perhaps a little too low key, when you look back through his career, you realize just how formidable his range and ability to *completely* entrench himself in his characters are. Woody Harrelson was a close second for me. He needs to play more bad guys.

Certainly not perfect but I'd recommend it, for sure.

I've been looking forward to this one for quite some time, but man oh man, was I ever not thrilled with what I finally saw last night.

The trailers made this out to be something it sure isn't, and for me, that's entertaining.

It's so bleak, do dark, so downright sa and depressing, that it's hard for me to enjoy.  The vast majority of the characters are so...uh...so unapealing, I had serious trouble rooting for them.

I also had serious trouble with character motivations throughout the movie. I just didn't buy it or buy into anyone.  Most of the characters are just so over the top bad, stupid, or lowlife, that it turned intoa chore just getting through the 2 hour runtime.

But I tried.  I honestly did and half way through, I was thinking I kinda like this...as I wanted to like it.  But in the end, things ended up just like I knew they would and with that in mind, I realized how weak this whole thing really was.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I like bare knuckle fighting, I like bad guys, and I like killing, but when all is said and done, the reality is that this is nothing more than a B movie plot/story, filled with A Listers and done way too seriously to be any fun.

They played this for reals and pulled no punches, but the flavor left in my mouth tasted like dog shite.

Grade - C+

I don't disagree with anything you've pointed out. The story is nothing at all like the story that was advertised, and from that perspective it's hugely disappointing. But that is more the fault of those that falsely marketed it.

However, the plotting is odd on its own, too.

I didn't really have an issue with the character motivations, though. A bit over the top, true, but I think movies have to be, and I was able to buy into what made the characters tick.

I enjoyed the movie mostly for the dark, bleak tone. I like that gritty, post-industrial world. The hero set up as modern day knight struggling against the machine, and like his counterpart in the medieval world, finding there is no justice except what you make yourself.

I agree with you, Kev.

What I didn't buy was the fighting aspect - we've seen this time and time again, mostly in martial arts movies, going abck to the 70's and 80's.  I'm sure there is money to be made in these illegal dealings, but here, I didn't really understand what Rodney was all about.

OK, so he was kind of a scumbag and had gambling issues, but we just didn't see enough to really understand his situation.  BUT, it sure didn't seem like he was making any money for his efforts, whether or not he was throwing a fight.

And that leads me to one of the biggest issues I had - the throwing of the fights.  Rodney wasn't all that much of a fighter, really.  I think we only saw him fight twice and each time, he was supposed to throw it and lose - but why?  The beauty of a no holds barred, backwoods fight is that anything can happen and no one really knows anything about either fighter.  If Rodney was some super tough badass, let him beat up some "favored" fighters - that's where someone can make cash.  Who's going to bet big on some little guy that liteally no one knows or has ever seen?

And then DeGroat turns into a complete cliche badguy who just kills Petty and Rodney for no apparent reason, when both of them could have made him more money by continuing to fight...which leads me to my final BIG PROBLEM...

Petty accidentally pulls his phone and dials it while grabbing a gun...really?  That's the plot point that alerts everyone that DeGroat was the killer?  C'mon now...that's so weak...and cliche...and unrealistic.

OK, it's not a bad movie, nor is it a bad script, but why all this talent bought in and why Di Caprio and Scott Produced is way beyond me, as I just don't see the big upside they must have.

Yup on all points.

When I was on the fight circuit myself...

Just kidding. I have no idea of those things even exist. Probably not or it would be all over youtube. I mean there is stuff like that on youtube, that's how what's his name got  discovered, but it's not very organized. For the sake of the film, I could buy into it.

I have known kids that were good kids, but always into trouble, and they went into the military to try to clean up and escape it. But when they come home, the underlying trouble is still there, and now there is whatever damage that may have occurred in whatever war they fought on top of it. And I've seen these people try and try to dig out from it, the problem is always one step behind. Often they reenlist. And often they get into trouble when home, but cops let them go because of their service. I even knew a girl like this. Very pretty, great athlete, good kid...trouble chasing her like a shadow.

And I think Rodney was like that. Always trying to do the right thing, but it's never going to happen. And he'll take down people that try to help him without meaning to.

I thought Degroat was convincing. Yes, cliche...but honestly, I have come to the conclusion that bad guys in films are usually one of three things: weak, strong but cliche, or absurd. The absurd ones are the result of trying to avoid cliche and they drive me crazy. Once in a blue moon a film comes up with something truly original, but it's so rare, I can live with cliche if it's well done. Degroat was well done.

But yes...the killings made no sense, as far as I can remember, anyway. And that seems like something they could have fixed with the plot, too.

I think the story worked for me because I bought just enough into all of the characters. Bale tries to help his hapless brother, and it results in his DUI conviction. He loses his girlfriend, doesn't see his father die, etc. Rodney is helpless without his brother to protect and signs up for Iraq, a decision filled with consequence. Bale's girl leaves him because she is not strong enough to be alone. The guy she dates turns out to be a decent man. William Defoe has some humanity and depth for a bit character. We can feel Rodney's pain. And Degroat is at least entertaining, and works as a believable bad guy(though cliche a bit).

The fighting was such a small part of the story that they are guilty of false marketing.

I'm starting to think Casey Afleck is a pretty good actor. Much better than his brother, who should stick to directing.

OH YEAH, ONE MORE THING:  I did see this at the theater. That helped a lot, because I really liked the visuals of the film, set in the decaying industrial landscape surrounded by dark Pennsylvania forest..

Kev, I'm in agreement with everything you said here, once again.

And you bring up some interesting points, namely, what is this movie really supposed to be about?  What is it that drew so much attention to it and brought in all these A Listers?

The reality for me, at least, is that there's very little here and if the talent wasn't attached, I don't see this being much of anything at all.

The plot as it is, is so basic, so simple, and really is easy and cliched at the same time.  I don't see anything here at all that makes this anything remotely new, fresh, or even fun.  But hey...what do I know?