Of Alchemists and Men by James McClung - Short, Sci Fi, Fantasy - An enslaved alchemist devises a timely plan to escape his wicked captor. - pdf, format 8)

Damn! That didn't take very long. Thanks for posting, Don!

Anyway... extended version of the script I wrote for the last OWC. Thanks to those who checked it out beforehand (you know who you are) and thanks to Janet who helped with the logline.

Any comments would be much appreciated. Big on quid pro quo if that's any incentive. :)

Good to see this up, James.  Hope you get some great comments.


--Steve

Hey, James. Saw you were looking for reads, thought I'd jump on.

Page 1: Not a fan of the first slug, no real visual given really. I'd scrap it and just fade in on the candle's flame. I know it's directing the shot but it just reads better.

Strange use of dissolve, I can understand why you did it but again, I wouldn't say it's needed. Also, if you're a format junkie, it should be on the right side but that's not really a problem.

Like the name.

Writing's very 'head-on' if you catch my drift, lacking the flow of a fast read. Definitely not bad though, style is style and I guess this is yours.

Reading a little further and yeah, writing does become easier on the eyes.

"a cyclone form
around" Made me stumble, consider rephrasing it.

Side note... Interested in hearing which program you used to write this with, it looked like FD but the page numbers are different and the font seems a tiny bit thicker. I quite like it though.

Page 2: "He takes a seat before another book." Which Grimble is this?

Page 3: Have to say second sundial/disappearance scene left me very confused. I'm hoping this gets cleared up later on.

Page 6: You've been handling exposition really nicely so far but this line just doesn't work for me. ""Being a grocer takes a lot out of a man. I do find myself at an alehouse from time to time." Yeah, there's a reason why you put it there but I think if he says he was in a fight, it would suffice. If he's not lying, we'll naturally find out the other stuff later on. Even if he is lying, it just seems a bit too much.

"He unsheathes a dagger." Declan does? Why is Grimble OS? I assume we can still see him? Would help if the slug said 'continuous' or 'moments later' to understand the time difference. Or even how Grimble suddenly disappeared.

Page 9: Paced really nicely so far, definitely one of the better shorts I've read. Let's hope it carries on until the end.

"I wasn’t sure what you’d need so I
brought you everything." Could sound better.

Page 11: "He grabs a hammer and smashes it into small nuggets." Never touched gold before, my understanding was that it was as hard as rock. Might take a few more hits of a hammer to break it but I'm obviously no expert.

Feels like some kind of twist coming where the gold isn't what it seems, seen that before plenty of times. Hopefully it's not the case.

Page 14: "The
time pyramid sits on the mantelpiece." Good stuff, a lot of writers would've had him just talking to himself and taken half a page to reveal this.

Thought just hit, was this your entry for the OWC? Looks to be some time travelling going on here.

Page 22: Not sure what the slow motion achieved but I can't say I haven't been guilty of doing it myself.

Page 24: Why does Grimble start suddenly crying? Over the death of Declan? Why doesn't Past Grimble show any reaction? Too much happening here.

"The Alchemist’s Guild is going to
have my head for this." I assume that's some kind of reference to something since I have no clue what that means.

And then the journal? I know you mentioned something about the books earlier in the script but I can't really find any connection. I have a guess but that's probably far from what actually happened. So, Grimble is trying to produce a book... And I assume the focus was meant to be the gold until he, or his double, discovered time travel and their focus suddenly shifted. I'm not sure why he's writing it though, maybe to get himself into the seemingly random Alchemist’s Guild. Reading that to myself once more, that's an absurd guess so an explanation would be nice.

I have to be honest, the ending really blind sided me. I'm struggling to understand what happened which is a shame since it's obvious some thought went into the concept. The lute seems to hold importance but it seems more like a flashy effect rather than adding anything to the story. You balance exposition and action very nicely but because of it, the last two pages just didn't come across the way you wanted them to. What's the payoff besides the obvious?

It's a shame too since this is a solid script in terms of many things. Confident writing with some quirky characters and a nice streamlined narrative. It's just when I finished it, a bad taste was left in my mouth. Needs to be much clearer... Unless of course, I missed a vital part of the story.

A few tiny things that could use a good look at.

Declan's emergence in the story at the time makes sense but as you read further, it feels like a contrived and coincidental way to add conflict/push start the story the way the writer wants it to go. Out of all the days and of all the people, poor old Grimble gets chosen? Doesn't work for me, too much riding on this moment for it to feel fake in the end. Personally, I would've had Grimble being a little well known and say maybe he made a few enemies in his life with his crazy alchemist experimentation. Naturally, there's a (real) reason why Declan is there then, not because he got (VERY) lucky. Okay, that's no good but I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

Page length comes in high. This is a hard one to discuss for a variety of reasons, mostly because I feel the script does work at 25 pages. It just feels as if you could trim a little of Declan and Grimble's quarrel as well as splicing some of the fluff plaguing the moment between Declan being revealed as a thief to when Grimble reveals the time travel to him. Would definitely make for a better final product. Especially when none of that really holds a lot of weight to the ending.

Some readers might have a problem with the fact that it's not explained how they got the gold but it shouldn't concern us... The real problem with it though is that (I think) the payoff has to do with the time travel predicament at the end rather than the insanely convenient reason for Declan actually staying at Grimble's home. Essentially, the gold plot point is just fat that could be replaced by something that relates a little more to the story. Like the page length, this is a hard one to discuss since there's a reason why you put it there. And although it didn't feel lazy, it was missing the push the reader needed when transitioning to the ending. It almost feels like an afterthought. It's why I mentioned the gold being fake earlier since at that point, to the reader it feels as if the gold is the story's hook. When it isn't, IMO, it really doesn't have a lot to do the story and just feels fake.

Anyway, enough of my rambling. It's a very solid effort, James, just feels as if it's missing a few elements for an effective script. Good work though.

Not going to bullshit you, James.  At first read, this story is too confusing and I am just not getting it.

I mean, I get it in a very general way, but all of this "past Grimble" stuff -- and in a variety of locations -- I am getting lost in the complexity of this story and cannot follow as I should.  

You know what I think of your talents, so I will not dwell on that.  Grimble is a great character, and I am particularly fond of his habit for utterly petulant dialogue in the face of certain disaster.  The writing is sound, and some of the individual passages are quite good.

I will probably come back for a second read that may lend some additional clarity, but I will need to do that later.  But as a first-time reader giving this a quick once-over, you've lost me.

Quoted from nawazm11 Side note... Interested in hearing which program you used to write this with, it looked like FD but the page numbers are different and the font seems a tiny bit thicker. I quite like it though.

I use Word. Have for eight years. That bad?

Last year, I tried to switch to Celtx after a hiatus from writing but it didn't take. I hate it. For multiple reasons.

Don't want to pay for Final Draft since I can already format dialogue and such just fine in Word. If you can sell me on it though, maybe I will. I don't mind so much for shorts but for features, I'm thinking of writing rough drafts in Word and transferring them to screenwriting software as I go along.

Quoted from nawazm11 Page 2: "He takes a seat before another book." Which Grimble is this? "He unsheathes a dagger." Declan does? Why is Grimble OS? I assume we can still see him? Would help if the slug said 'continuous' or 'moments later' to understand the time difference. Or even how Grimble suddenly disappeared.

:(

I'll clarify. I can understand the confusion. Originally, these read with the character names but changed them because someone suggested I started sentences with character names too often. Something tells me regular revisions are going to be a pain in the ass.

Quoted from nawazm11 Page 3: Have to say second sundial/disappearance scene left me very confused. I'm hoping this gets cleared up later on.

Thinking I might just have Grimble blatantly refer to the sundial as a time machine in the following scene. A little on the nose but perhaps this is one instance where it'd be more beneficial than not. Plenty to get confused about later on. Better to save some of that right out the gate.

What do you think?

Quoted from nawazm11 Thought just hit, was this your entry for the OWC? Looks to be some time travelling going on here.

Yes.

Quoted from nawazm11 Page 22: Not sure what the slow motion achieved but I can't say I haven't been guilty of doing it myself.

I suppose it's not necessary. More an aesthetic choice than anything. Though now that it's there, I wonder if the climax wouldn't move too fast without it.

In any case, I wrote it in time with a song I was listening to when I conceived it. I think it adds a nice touch. If enough people complain, I suppose I'll cut it.

Quoted from nawazm11 Page 24: Why does Grimble start suddenly crying? Over the death of Declan? Why doesn't Past Grimble show any reaction? Too much happening here.

There's a long explanation for this. I'll save it and provide the short one (though I will elaborate if you like).

Both future characters have their memories wiped when Past Declan is killed and mentally revert to infant form. I tried to make the crying as over the top as possible so you would know something is way off.

Quoted from nawazm11 "The Alchemist’s Guild is going to have my head for this." I assume that's some kind of reference to something since I have no clue what that means.

I wanted to have a reference to Grimble as part of a group at some point as I thought there might be a question of why he does any of the things he does (write books, experiment, etc.). I don't think that's hard to figure out in this case.

Secondly, I wanted to suggest that the guild knew about this time machine and had certain rules about its usage. You don't have to know what exact rules Grimble's broken at this point because the whole situation of Declan killing his past self is a complete SNAFU. You could assume many are broken.

This, however, could be hard to infer. Initially, I thought to mention the guild when Grimble fills in his past self on what's happened after they knock out Declan in the basement. The line would've been in response to the mention of "loose ends." Something to the effect of "We'll let the Alchemist's Guild worry about that."

I chose to put the reference at the end because it was funnier and wrapped things up nicely. Perhaps the earlier reference is more informative though. I might put it back in.

Quoted from nawazm11 And then the journal? I know you mentioned something about the books earlier in the script but I can't really find any connection. I have a guess but that's probably far from what actually happened. So, Grimble is trying to produce a book... And I assume the focus was meant to be the gold until he, or his double, discovered time travel and their focus suddenly shifted. I'm not sure why he's writing it though, maybe to get himself into the seemingly random Alchemist’s Guild. Reading that to myself once more, that's an absurd guess so an explanation would be nice.

You're reading too much into it. The bookends were basically meant to give a storybook/fairy tale quality to the main story like in Disney or Wes Anderson films. You could assume that Grimble wrote the whole story as fiction. You could also assume that the situation had been dealt with and Grimble wrote his account of it later on. Doesn't matter which.

I should tell you this wasn't just meant to be aesthetic like the SLOW MOTION was; I had a hard time indicating that the story was set in medieval times and was meant to be a fantasy of sorts. I feel like the bookends establish that right away... or at least they were supposed to.

Quoted from nawazm11 I have to be honest, the ending really blind sided me. I'm struggling to understand what happened which is a shame since it's obvious some thought went into the concept. The lute seems to hold importance but it seems more like a flashy effect rather than adding anything to the story. You balance exposition and action very nicely but because of it, the last two pages just didn't come across the way you wanted them to. What's the payoff besides the obvious?

I expected as much. Again, I'm sort of playing with time paradox here. It's meant to be weird.
I suppose I could explain it but how? I can't very well end the script with exposition.

The lute has NOTHING to do with it BTW since it takes place in the bookend.

Quoted from nawazm11 Declan's emergence in the story at the time makes sense but as you read further, it feels like a contrived and coincidental way to add conflict/push start the story the way the writer wants it to go. Out of all the days and of all the people, poor old Grimble gets chosen? Doesn't work for me, too much riding on this moment for it to feel fake in the end. Personally, I would've had Grimble being a little well known and say maybe he made a few enemies in his life with his crazy alchemist experimentation. Naturally, there's a (real) reason why Declan is there then, not because he got (VERY) lucky. Okay, that's no good but I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

I'll think about this. I considered both scenarios of Declan knowing and not knowing who Grimble is prior to kidnapping him, basically in equal measure. I figured the latter worked better, if only for the fact that Declan knowing has a lot more strings attached. Perhaps I should reconsider.

Quoted from nawazm11 Page length comes in high. This is a hard one to discuss for a variety of reasons, mostly because I feel the script does work at 25 pages. It just feels as if you could trim a little of Declan and Grimble's quarrel as well as splicing some of the fluff plaguing the moment between Declan being revealed as a thief to when Grimble reveals the time travel to him. Would definitely make for a better final product. Especially when none of that really holds a lot of weight to the ending.

I'll think about this as well. I overwrite. That's my one bad habit. I find there's always stuff to trim.

Quoted from nawazm11 Some readers might have a problem with the fact that it's not explained how they got the gold but it shouldn't concern us... The real problem with it though is that (I think) the payoff has to do with the time travel predicament at the end rather than the insanely convenient reason for Declan actually staying at Grimble's home. Essentially, the gold plot point is just fat that could be replaced by something that relates a little more to the story. Like the page length, this is a hard one to discuss since there's a reason why you put it there. And although it didn't feel lazy, it was missing the push the reader needed when transitioning to the ending. It almost feels like an afterthought. It's why I mentioned the gold being fake earlier since at that point, to the reader it feels as if the gold is the story's hook. When it isn't, IMO, it really doesn't have a lot to do the story and just feels fake.

I'm not sure I understand this. What could I possibly replace the gold plot with? How does it not have a lot to do with the story? Gold is the whole reason Grimble's kidnapped and the whole reason he uses time travel is to escape. I mean, if that's not clearly, that's a whole different issue but otherwise, the gold has everything to do with the story.

I honestly don't know what "story" you could be referring to that doesn't involve gold. What reason would Declan have for kidnapping Grimble otherwise?

Again, confused here. Care to clarify?

Quoted from nawazm11 Anyway, enough of my rambling. It's a very solid effort, James, just feels as if it's missing a few elements for an effective script. Good work though.

Appreciate it, man. Thanks.

Quoted from bert Not going to bullshit you, James.  At first read, this story is too confusing and I am just not getting it. I mean, I get it in a very general way, but all of this "past Grimble" stuff -- and in a variety of locations -- I am getting lost in the complexity of this story and cannot follow as I should.   You know what I think of your talents, so I will not dwell on that.  Grimble is a great character, and I am particularly fond of his habit for utterly petulant dialogue in the face of certain disaster.  The writing is sound, and some of the individual passages are quite good. I will probably come back for a second read that may lend some additional clarity, but I will need to do that later.  But as a first-time reader giving this a quick once-over, you've lost me.

Thanks for the read, man. And sorry to hear you're confused. Currently trying to figure out how to remedy this. Nevertheless, I'd be happy to hear your thoughts should you decide to come back for a second read.

Would you be able to tell me the first moment where you started to feel confused? I could certainly take a look.

Hey James;

Believe it or not, I was waiting for this script to show up; being a huge fan of the occult, especially Alchemy and the whole romanticism surrounding it.  You had it listed as a dead link for a while, but no worries, it’s now here and I have to say, I really enjoyed this story.

I’ve read, tooth and nail, so many books on Alchemy, that I feel I may be able to add perhaps a little more intrigue to the whole dark premise of the script. For what it’s worth, they’re suggestions at best, not an attempt to overwrite what you have here.

As I go…

“Old English font spells the words “Of Alchemists and Men.”  Medieval illustrations embellish the text.”

I might change this to Latin, or French. Most Alchemical texts were written in these two languages previous to the renaissance period. Translated only to English during the awakening of the occult in the late 19th century.

“GRIMBLE CRUMBLE (70s), a little Merlin-like man in alchemist robes”

Alchemists preferred to ‘blend in’ with society. Wearing robes would attract too much attention, and thus, cut-throats who wanted what they had. I might have him actually appear as a complete dreg of society. This way he is ridiculed or ostracised into seclusion, and thus, is awarded secrecy to accomplish his goals.

“A medieval library, workshop, and laboratory all in one.”

This is true to tale. A (wooden) sign hanging in the midst of the home might read something to the extent of ‘ Ora et Labora’. Latin for ‘Prayer and Work’. The Oratory offers prayer for knowledge to the Alchemist during his work or ‘Labors’ within the lab.

The ‘Oratory’ would simply be sanctioned off with a black cloth, or veil to offer privacy. The penitent man before God likes to pray in secrecy, not ostentatiously before the pomp and glee of society.

The ‘Past Grimble’ and the present ‘Grimble’ is throwing me off a bit, forcing a double read. Perhaps calling the past ‘Grimble’ by his last name of ‘Crumble’, would ease the confusion a bit?

Declan, an interesting as he is, might use a bit more temptation than just being a wandering thief. Perhaps an Alchemist himself that could never fully acquire the secret that was too cleverly protected in the books by riddles and parables. Or perhaps a Friar, or Bishop from a nearby Abby that would like to acquire infinite riches to further his status as God’s right hand man.

Assume Declan knows everything about Grimble, because he’s been watching him for quite some time now.

You speak of Declan being tempted by Gold, and rightfully so. However, if he comes to Grimble for his secrets, then he would approach him for the ultimate prize; The Philosophers Stone.

With this he could make all the gold in the world he wanted. He could build a hundred Abby’s, all adorned with Carbuncles, Diamonds, and Rubies. The one man who would possess more on earth than the Vatican itself. Now we’re talking greed on a scale beyond comprehension, and he would do anything to acquire it.

“Grimble assembles a network of flasks, condensers, and Burners on the table. Declan leans against the wall and smokes the stolen pipe.”

Flasks and (crude forms) of condensers were present during the dark ages so to speak, but no burners in terms of regulating heat. The Alchemist’s two main life lines were the ‘Alembic’ and the ‘Furnace’, or fire. A Bathe of Mary was provided as a way to regulate 100 degrees Celsius without burning away your Spirits. But Minerals; lead, gold, sulfur, and mercury needed a raging inferno for smelting

I think a better place to have this play out would be at Declan’s blacksmith shop, where there is a great furnace available to carry out the work in secrecy. That being the black smoke and dross escaping from the chambers would not attract too much attention from the surrounding townsfolk.

“Declan takes it and drops it on the floor in front of him. He grabs a hammer and smashes it into small nuggets.”

Gold is a soft metal, bearing similar properties to Lead; in weight and density, especially when it’s as pure as the Alchemist makes. You might want to rewrite this part out, as a hammer would only bang it into thin leaves. But if we're working for the ‘Stone’, then this part might actually play out differently.

“Past Grimble prepares another blow. His face explodes into
colorful stars. The world melts into a kaleidoscopic blur.”

Nice! Cool visual.

“The Alchemist’s Guild is going to have my head for this.”

Back to the whole secrecy thing and there being no known society for these Spagyrists to collaborate. Actually, Alchemists were most worried about another Alchemist coming upon their secret studies, only to steal away years of knowledge gathered at the raging furnace.

One secret society that did collaborate on similar studies was the Rosicrucian’s. But their gathering place was actually a temple in ethereal space, the Astral World.

“He throws his head back, opens his mouth wide, and cries. Wails with baby colic fury. Tears spew from their ducts. A frightened look comes over Grimble. He bursts into tears.  Squeals like an infant. Loud and sustained.”

Sorry, you lost me here, and we’re at the end so I’m not sure where to go from here.

All in all, a solid read. Many of these elements work well with the story, and some need a little tweaking to really make it full blown Alchemical. But I’ll leave that up to you…


Hope this helps you in some way, best of luck, Rick.

James,

The first slug is not visual at all. You don't want to describe anything by what it isn't. For example, "there's not an elephant in this room" basically means imagine an elephant and now take it out of the room. So you've done nothing visually.

"A candle illuminates a thick leather-bound tome on a wooden
table."

-- This needs to be rephrased. Beginning with the candle, when I started to imagine this, it was sort of floating in the air and then by the end of the sentence I found out that it's actually on the table. What is your focus here, the candle or the book? If it's the book, start with that. But I would start with the preposition first in order to give me an idea of location, like so: "On a wooden table, a thick leather-bound tome is illuminated by a candle."

"A gnarled hand opens to the front page." -- Either opens the book, or turns the page.

I'm not a fan of some of these verbs you use here, but that could be simply a difference of style. "Empties" is for example a verb that tells me the end of the action while it tells me its beginning. "Pours", I don't know what will happen until you say, okay, now it's empty. I sort of like that better. Also flask is not a measure of volume, unlike a gallon or a liter. So I'm dubious about saying "a flask of".

"He pours mercury from a flask into the sundial crevices.
The sun’s rays glimmer on the surface of the liquid."

The flask is empty."

"He mounts a stone pedestal about thirty feet away." -- Again same as before, first locate the subject, then tell me what he's doing. So, "About thirty feet away, he mounts a stone pedestal."

I think visually the transition from the first scene into the next was kinda cool. But I don't get the second scene. Stuff is happening but there's no conflict or tension, so I'm not sure about this one.

"His eyes roll back. " -- Into the back of his head?

"Everything turns white. " -- A fade to white makes more sense.

"Grimble lifts his quill from the last page of his book." -- The "last page of his book" part is not visual for me.

"Grimble carries the book over to a stacked bookshelf. He
kisses the leather binding and places it with the others. " -- Brake up.

Three pages and no conflict or tension whatsoever. Not liking this.

Five pages and I don't see any conflict or tension here.

Okay, conflict starts at the end of page 6. That's too long, imo. You need to have your reader's interest by the end of page 1.

I had to stop at page 9 where you cut to black. A laborious read for me. You don't really transition well from this conflict into the next, assuming there is more later on. I just wasn't interested in going further with it. Sorry.

The action lines are not lean, sometimes confusing, and the action itself is not very dramatic.

That's about all I can say on this one.

-J.S.

Thanks for getting back, James.

Quoted from James McClung I use Word. Have for eight years. That bad?

Not at all, like I said, it looks nice, easy to read.

Quoted from James McClung I'll clarify. I can understand the confusion. Originally, these read with the character names but changed them because someone suggested I started sentences with character names too often. Something tells me regular revisions are going to be a pain in the A**.

Yeah, thought that's what happened here. I don't see a problem with it if it makes the read clearer. Nothing wrong with repeating a character's name for clarity's sake.

Quoted from James McClung What do you think?

Hard one to discuss. It depends on how much faith you have in the reader. To me at least, I was pretty certain you'd bring this back up later on so I decided to ignore this beat and just go along with the story. I was confused definitely but I'd prefer that over straight up exposition. Don't put it in just yet but if you get more comments about the same thing, definitely think into it.

Quoted from James McClung If enough people complain, I suppose I'll cut it.

Just one of my rambles, don't cut it. I've been guilty of doing it myself... Style does matter in this case.

Quoted from James McClung Both future characters have their memories wiped when Past Declan is killed and mentally revert to infant form.

Okay, yeah, I definitely thought way too much into it... I almost came to the same conclusion but there was too much Past Character this and that that my mind cancelled out who was crying and who wasn't ;D. It works though... I just think there needs to be a little reference that they'll basically become brain dead or whatever if this scenario occurs. Best to see what other peeps think of this scene.

Quoted from James McClung I wanted to have a reference to Grimble as part of a group at some point as I thought there might be a question of why he does any of the things he does (write books, experiment, etc.).

Yeah, that works. No need to put a reference earlier, I thought it played a pivotal part in the story hence why I decided to mention that. I didn't really care for his reasoning, he's an alchemist and that's what he does although I do like the thought you put behind it.

Quoted from James McClung Care to clarify?

No worries. This is just a pet peeve of mine. I'm finding it hard to explain but... Have you seen the episode of BB where they go to cook meth in the desert and their RV stops working? A lot of people put that as their favourite episode but I hated it for quite a few reasons. The episode was used to reveal one plot point... And that was that they just made a shit tonne of meth. So it just bugged me that the writers took 50 minutes to reveal a beat that could've been written in five. It was filler because it had nothing to do with the story, it never gets mentioned again. Essentially, the RV breaking down does literally nothing. Do you see what I'm saying?

Your gold subplot isn't really filler but you spend way too much time on it to have it amount to nothing in the end, meaning it feels just way too contrived for me. What was it, 12 or something pages? Could there be a leaner way to make Declan use the time machine? Or maybe have him use it earlier? I get what you put it there, it's just I feel you dwell on it to much. Personal opinion and all. See what other peeps think about it since I'm certain it's just me.

Anyway, yeah, get back to me if something doesn't make sense. ;)

Quoted from Gum Hey James; Believe it or not, I was waiting for this script to show up; being a huge fan of the occult, especially Alchemy and the whole romanticism surrounding it.  You had it listed as a dead link for a while, but no worries, it’s now here and I have to say, I really enjoyed this story. I’ve read, tooth and nail, so many books on Alchemy, that I feel I may be able to add perhaps a little more intrigue to the whole dark premise of the script. For what it’s worth, they’re suggestions at best, not an attempt to overwrite what you have here.

Cool, man. Glad to hear it.

The script was only posted two days ago BTW so no dead link; I'd had the title listed as "upcoming" in my sig, which I do from time to time.

Anyway, I appreciate the perspective. Sounds like you know your stuff.

Quoted from Gum “Old English font spells the words “Of Alchemists and Men.”  Medieval illustrations embellish the text.” I might change this to Latin, or French. Most Alchemical texts were written in these two languages previous to the renaissance period. Translated only to English during the awakening of the occult in the late 19th century.

A bit much, I think, for this script. You're right, of course, but I didn't intend for the script to be 100% historically accurate. I wanted it to be more like a fairy tale so I took certain leeway here and there. Otherwise, the dialogue would be completely different.

At the same time, opening with Latin text in an old school medieval tome would be killer, for sure. I'm almost tempted to go that way honestly and slap a SUPER (Of Alchemists and Men) underneath it. On the other hand, that might be too much to ask so early on, seeing as people are already having trouble with the opening, and probably wouldn't be copacetic with the dialogue and tone down the line.

Will think about though. Again, I like the image.

Quoted from Gum “GRIMBLE CRUMBLE (70s), a little Merlin-like man in alchemist robes” Alchemists preferred to ‘blend in’ with society. Wearing robes would attract too much attention, and thus, cut-throats who wanted what they had. I might have him actually appear as a complete dreg of society. This way he is ridiculed or ostracised into seclusion, and thus, is awarded secrecy to accomplish his goals.

I like this. Makes a lot of sense. I think I'll use it if you don't mind.

“A medieval library, workshop, and laboratory all in one.”

Quoted from Gum The ‘Past Grimble’ and the present ‘Grimble’ is throwing me off a bit, forcing a double read. Perhaps calling the past ‘Grimble’ by his last name of ‘Crumble’, would ease the confusion a bit?

Will need to think this over. I can understand why it'd be confusing, especially since there're two "PAST" characters in the script. Initially, I named the characters using Roman numerals next to their names but that was even worse, quite frankly. I'm sure there's a way around this issue but it seems rather tricky at the moment.

Quoted from Gum Declan, an interesting as he is, might use a bit more temptation than just being a wandering thief. Perhaps an Alchemist himself that could never fully acquire the secret that was too cleverly protected in the books by riddles and parables. Or perhaps a Friar, or Bishop from a nearby Abby that would like to acquire infinite riches to further his status as God’s right hand man. Assume Declan knows everything about Grimble, because he’s been watching him for quite some time now. You speak of Grimble being tempted by Gold, and rightfully so. However, if he comes to Grimble for his secrets, then he would approach him for the ultimate prize; The Philosophers Stone. With this he could make all the gold in the world he wanted. He could build a hundred Abby’s, all adorned with Carbuncles, Diamonds, and Rubies. The one man who would possess more on earth than the Vatican itself. Now we’re talking greed on a scale beyond comprehension, and he would do anything to acquire it.

All good ideas, man, and if this were a feature, I might go that way. In this case though, I wanted more of a brain vs. braun type story. If Grimble were pitted against an equal, I think it'd be a lot more difficult for Grimble to talk them into allowing him to use the time machine. I don't think things would turn out the same either if an equal were to go back in time with him.

Not to shoot down your ideas. They're definitely interesting. But it's another story, simply put.

Quoted from Gum “Grimble assembles a network of flasks, condensers, and Burners on the table. Declan leans against the wall and smokes the stolen pipe.” Flasks and (crude forms) of condensers were present during the dark ages so to speak, but no burners in terms of regulating heat. The Alchemist’s two main life lines were the ‘Alembic’ and the ‘Furnace’, or fire. A Bathe of Mary was provided as a way to regulate 100 degrees Celsius without burning away your Spirits. But Minerals; lead, gold, sulfur, and mercury needed a raging inferno for smelting I think a better place to have this play out would be at Declan’s blacksmith shop, where there is a great furnace available to carry out the work in secrecy. That being the black smoke and dross escaping from the chambers would not attract too much attention from the surrounding townsfolk.

Fair enough. I'll see what I can do about this. I figured they didn't have burners back them but at least some kind of flame system on a smaller scale. I simply said burners because I didn't know what else to refer to them as.

Quoted from Gum “Declan takes it and drops it on the floor in front of him. He grabs a hammer and smashes it into small nuggets.” Gold is a soft metal, bearing similar properties to Lead; in weight and density, especially when it’s as pure as the Alchemist makes. You might want to rewrite this part out, as a hammer would only bang it into thin leaves. But if were working for the ‘Stone’, then this part might actually play out differently.

Hmm... What about a hammer and chisel? That could serve to break it up, couldn't it? Otherwise, I'll just stick with larger chunks of gold. I opted for nuggets as they're easier to manage and more aesthetically pleasing.

Quoted from Gum “The Alchemist’s Guild is going to have my head for this.” Back to the whole secrecy thing and there being no known society for these Spagyrists to collaborate. Actually, Alchemists were most worried about another Alchemist coming upon their secret studies, only to steal away years of knowledge gathered at the raging furnace. One society that did collaborate on similar studies was the Rosicrucian’s. But their gathering place was actually a temple in ethereal space, the Astral World.

Yeah. I knew this. Total creative license on my part.

Quoted from Gum “He throws his head back, opens his mouth wide, and cries. Wails with baby colic fury. Tears spew from their ducts. A frightened look comes over Grimble. He bursts into tears.  Squeals like an infant. Loud and sustained.” Sorry, you lost me here, and we’re at the end so I’m not sure where to go from here.

Figured this would throw some people off. It's meant to be completely bizarre. In any case... Past Declan's death wipes the memory of the future characters so they revert into baby form, mentally speaking, that is.

That's the short answer.

Thanks, man!

Thanks for the read, J.S.

I'll take a look at your notes and see what I can apply. At the very least, I'll revise the opening. Can't have things not working right off the bat.

Sorry you didn't like it. Not sure what to tell you. Will try to tighten it up is all I can do.

Thanks for the read.

It's not really that I didn't like it. It's just that the opening wasn't dramatic. If it was dramatic, I'd like it a lot more. It is interesting visually, I'll say that. Even when Declan arrives, there's potential for good drama, considering the visuals and the characters. Your visuals, when you get them down properly, I think are the strongest part of the writing. Then characters. But its the drama that carries it all along. So that's what you should work on first and foremost. Then worry about giving it a nice shave.

-J.S.

Quoted from nawazm11 Hard one to discuss. It depends on how much faith you have in the reader. To me at least, I was pretty certain you'd bring this back up later on so I decided to ignore this beat and just go along with the story. I was confused definitely but I'd prefer that over straight up exposition. Don't put it in just yet but if you get more comments about the same thing, definitely think into it.

I'll hold off and see what other people have to say on the matter. I've been having trouble with expecting too much from the reader lately. The first couple years I was writing, I did just the opposite and packed my scripts with exposition, as I expect many writers do. Now I'm trying to find that sweet spot between the two.

Quoted from nawazm11 Just one of my rambles, don't cut it. I've been guilty of doing it myself... Style does matter in this case.

I don't want to cut it. I think it works. But like I said, if enough people complain, maybe it's not working as well as I think it is. Then again, that depends on *how* they complain.

Quoted from nawazm11 No worries. This is just a pet peeve of mine. I'm finding it hard to explain but... Have you seen the episode of BB where they go to cook meth in the desert and their RV stops working? A lot of people put that as their favourite episode but I hated it for quite a few reasons. The episode was used to reveal one plot point... And that was that they just made a shit tonne of meth. So it just bugged me that the writers took 50 minutes to reveal a beat that could've been written in five. It was filler because it had nothing to do with the story, it never gets mentioned again. Essentially, the RV breaking down does literally nothing. Do you see what I'm saying? Your gold subplot isn't really filler but you spend way too much time on it to have it amount to nothing in the end, meaning it feels just way too contrived for me. What was it, 12 or something pages? Could there be a leaner way to make Declan use the time machine? Or maybe have him use it earlier? I get what you put it there, it's just I feel you dwell on it to much. Personal opinion and all. See what other peeps think about it since I'm certain it's just me. Anyway, yeah, get back to me if something doesn't make sense. ;)

Still don't quite understand. What exactly is your objection here? That Declan kidnaps Grimble to make gold, that he happens to stumble upon the gold rather than knowing about it beforehand, or something else entirely?

Honestly, how you can refer to the gold as a subplot is beyond me. If the gold is the subplot, what is the plot? Declan kidnaps Grimble because he knows how to ore into gold. Otherwise, he'd just rob him and be on his way. No story. And furthermore, if that were the case, there'd be no point in Grimble being an alchemist or setting this in medieval times at all.

Feel like I must've misunderstood something you said down the line.

Quoted from J.S. It's not really that I didn't like it. It's just that the opening wasn't dramatic. If it was dramatic, I'd like it a lot more. It is interesting visually, I'll say that. Even when Declan arrives, there's potential for good drama, considering the visuals and the characters. Your visuals, when you get them down properly, I think are the strongest part of the writing. Then characters. But its the drama that carries it all along. So that's what you should work on first and foremost. Then worry about giving it a nice shave. -J.S.

What would make the opening dramatic then?

Keep in mind everything before Declan arrives is setup. I wanted to show Grimble in his environment. I guess you could say a dude cleaning his house isn't dramatic, which I can understand, but in this case, I think it reveals Grimble as someone with many interests who loves what they do... and can time travel on top of that. So when shit starts to go down, we have a sense of who he is.

Other than that, I don't see how the first ten pages aren't dramatic. You have a mysterious stranger, threats, intimidation, violence, etc. and everything after follows through on that, not to mention a full blown time travel sequence.

If you had to wait 15-20 pages to get all this, maybe I could understand where you're coming from. But in this case, you didn't even have to wait 10. So what gives? Explain to me what would make this work better.

Oh, man. I'm just explaining the concept really poorly. Declan gets involved in the story because of the gold but to me, I feel as if the ending doesn't have anything to do with the gold (when it should since we spend so long on it), it felt as if the writer needed a way for him to be injected into the story. But why stay on it for so long? Why not have him just discover the time machine straight up and just use that from the get go? The whole point is to get him to the sundial but I can't see any good reason why Declan doesn't discover that first and use it to his advantage. It would surely cut down on the page length. I think this is just one of those things coming across the wrong way, different strokes and all... Safe to just ignore this aspect for now.

Quoted from James McClung What would make the opening dramatic then?

Conflict and/or tension will make it dramatic. You have no conflict in the opening scenes. That's the issue. Any you can put conflict there, you just have to find a way to do it.

Listen to what Hitchcock says here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Ckf3YMfZE

"In other words, you are telling the audience, giving them some information, but at the time you give it, it must appear to be something else."

Vertigo, for example, start with a bang. It literally starts with conflict. That's drama. That's how Stewart's character gets acrophobia. You have to present exposition in a way that isn't simply showing things, but showing things in conflict or tension. Is there any specific movie you'd like to talk about?

Quoted from James McClung I guess you could say a dude cleaning his house isn't dramatic, which I can understand, but in this case

You just admitted what the problem is. Don't rationalize. You know the problem. Now fix it. I know its hard to make exposition interesting. Trust me, I get it. Imo, it's the hardest part of storytelling.

Quoted from James McClung Other than that, I don't see how the first ten pages aren't dramatic. You have a mysterious stranger, threats, intimidation, violence, etc. and everything after follows through on that, not to mention a full blown time travel sequence.

There's conflict, as I mentioned, it begins on page 6. It was just padded with too much. And once that scene ends on page 9 I just don't really see the point of it. "He grabs the instrument
and smashes it over Grimble’s head." What instrument are you referring to here?

What's your main character's goal? It might be in there, I just don't see it. It wasn't clear to me. What's your character's goal before Declan arrives? And who tries to prevent him from achieving it?

Quoted from James McClung If you had to wait 15-20 pages to get all this, maybe I could understand where you're coming from. But in this case, you didn't even have to wait 10. So what gives? Explain to me what would make this work better.

Again, let's talk about a specific movie here and look at just the first five pages of it and it'll make more sense where the conflict/tension is present and helps build the story.

-J.S.

I'd like to hop in for just a minute...

First, Bert's review pretty much sums up what I think of this one -- kinda.

Second, I see where J.S. is coming from with some of his comments, and I agree with him.  As far as what you can do with the opening of "a dude cleaning his house" and making it more dramatic, either change it to something else that is dramatic or give us a reason as to why he's cleaning his house -- is he expecting a hot date and his place is a mess?  LOL NOT the perfect example for your short, but you get the idea you know.  Maybe if there's some kind of urgency behind it, it would work a bit better as an opening.

Also, James, you mention intimidation and violence and threats in the first 10... I decided to re-open this and skim through it and, ultimately, I came to the conclusion that a lot of it didn't come across as strong enough.  It wasn't done in a compelling way, imo.  I'm starting to think that if it was, despite my feelings of reading stories that take place in time period's like this, that I would have been engaged enough anyway to read the rest of this short when you first e-mailed it to me.

Anyway, I've been finding the reviews and the back and forth to be quite interesting and informative, so I'll stick around to see what others have to say.


--Steve

Quoted from Guest As far as what you can do with the opening of "a dude cleaning his house" and making it more dramatic, either change it to something else that is dramatic or give us a reason as to why he's cleaning his house -- is he expecting a hot date and his place is a mess?  LOL NOT the perfect example for your short, but you get the idea you know.  Maybe if there's some kind of urgency behind it, it would work a bit better as an opening.

Exactly. I'm also reminded of Hitchcock's Family Plot, a movie I actually like despite what many others think of it, the movie literally does what he describes. It starts off with something completely immaterial to the plot. But it wasn't immaterial when he first presented to us at the beginning of the movie, because that's what we thought the movie was actually about. But it's not. That's the trick he's describing in the video.

-J.S.

If I'm being honest, I suppose Grimble doesn't have a goal, per se. He has things he devotes his time and energy to, which he's passionate about, but obviously those aren't the kinds of goals we're talking about here. Declan comes in, kidnaps him, and takes him away from all that. At this point, Grimble's goal is to subdue his captor, escape, and return to his normal life.

Honestly, I thought the setup was fine. By page four, a stranger is trying to enter the house and Grimble has to decide whether or not to let him in. Maybe it's not ominous enough? That'd be a fair point. Indeed, there's supposed to be a question of whether this man is dangerous or not. But that seems to be a different issue than what we're talking about.

I didn't think three pages of setup was that big a deal. Maybe it is. That said, up until Declan's appearance, I have fuck all idea how to make it more "interesting" other than cut it all out and introduce Declan immediately after, like, one page or something. Grimble's not trying to save the world or write the world's most important manuscript or anything like that so short of going that route, I'm at something of a loss.

Will have to sleep on it, I suppose.

Quoted from James McClung Would you be able to tell me the first moment where you started to feel confused? I could certainly take a look.

Hey James,

The confusion stems primarily from two areas of the script.

The first is the opening, in which:  Grimble shoots back to his cottage, and there are two of them; then we are quickly back to the field, then the cottage, then the field again; then we begin the story proper.  The significance of these short, intervening passages remains lost on me, even after visiting this story a second time. They confused me on first read, and they confuse me now.

The second occurs as we reach the climax of the story, after the past Declan has been dispatched.  They begin to sneeze, then cry like babies, and I am once more feeling that I have lost the thread of this story.  All of this occurs on page 24 of the current draft, along with the abrupt ending that does nothing to alleviate my confusion.

Like I said earlier, I get this story in a very general sense, and have no issues with the writing, the pace, or the characters themselves.  You might consider having Grimble use a bucket of boiling water during his elaborate escape to help things along.

But the specific instances noted above continue to elude me.  You are either being too clever, or not clever enough, which leaves two options.  Either clarify what is going on or consider dropping them from the narrative.  I think the story would be strengthened either way.

Thanks, Bert.

Quoted from bert The confusion stems primarily from two areas of the script. The first is the opening, in which:  Grimble shoots back to his cottage, and there are two of them; then we are quickly back to the field, then the cottage, then the field again; then we begin the story proper.  The significance of these short, intervening passages remains lost on me, even after visiting this story a second time. They confused me on first read, and they confuse me now.

The idea is that when we see the field the second time, it's a repeat of the opening scene. Grimble remains at the cottage while his past self uses the time machine, as his present self did the first time around. This time, however, Past Grimble presumably watches his step on his way to the field, given the advice of his future self who presumably fell somewhere along the way the first time around. Hence Grimble's bruise is gone when his past self time travels.

I used sneezing here and at the end to indicate a change in time.

The greater idea was to show that Grimble uses regularly the time machine to do twice as much work in the same amount of time.

I think the confusion here comes from the fact that simply none of this is clear enough. I think a handful of tweaks might do the trick.

Quoted from bert The second occurs as we reach the climax of the story, after the past Declan has been dispatched.  They begin to sneeze, then cry like babies, and I am once more feeling that I have lost the thread of this story.  All of this occurs on page 24 of the current draft, along with the abrupt ending that does nothing to alleviate my confusion.

This is about the fifth time the ending has been brought up in this way. I always figured it'd be somewhat contentious but as it turns out, nobody's really had anything positive to say about it. So, I'd wager it's not contentious at all; it just sucks.

I'll try to come up with a new ending. Unfortunately, I think some of my fallback ideas might be just as zany. There's a few more obvious ways I can go, such as future Grimble and Declan disappearing, blowing up, etc. but I think they're way too obvious. Maybe that'd be good for everyone else but I have sort of an aversion to playing off conventional ideas as inventive or exciting. It just seems false to me.

In any case, sorry for the confusion. There's definitely a lot of kinks here that need to be worked out.