The Sandwich by R. McManus (rendevous) - Short - On a building site in England in 1991 two people meet. One tries to help the other. But it doesn't quite work out as either intended. - pdf, format 8)

Thank you Don for your fine work.

Reads returned as per. PM me if you have any particulars in mind.

R

A few thoughts, just my opinion of course...

I think the first scene is over described with just too many things listed, almost reads like a shot list.

1991 - body piercings, were they prevalent then?

Building site, you wouldn't build and demolish at the asme time, sites are levelled first to create a brownfield site and then built on.

There's a distinct style to the writing that jarred with me for a couple of pages, then I caught the rhythm of it, liked it.

Pulled me in but then the ending caught me by surprise a little, I guess I wanted a deeper connection.

Thanks

Anthony

Ren,

Nice job with this. It was different, subtle, understated. I had to read it twice as I was a bit unfamiliar with some of the words/slang. But was happy to go through it twice. I enjoy the way you build and put together scenes/descriptions. It brings a bit a tension along with the tone and visuals. And think it worked particularly well with the setting. The setting feels very much like a third character here.

The asides didn't bother me. For the most part I thought the added rather than deterred. I also like how you add a bit of sly humor in description -  "aggressive cats" "dogs. and their shit." Little bits like that kept me interested and helped set the tone.

I also really liked the subtext and understated quality of these two characters interaction. And the mystery of the kid. Really felt the frustration of what it might be like to live in this area, that in way almost felt like an alien planet. Especially for someone from the American South West.

But back to the characters. It was interesting to see them interact and the misunderstanding of the interaction. I thought it worked well, felt real. And always wondering where this kid comes from. You get the sense that he's seen it all and can't except someones just giving him a sandwich. That's all. I really wanted to know more about the kid but the mystery works. In a way, just from his mannerisms and the way he interacts, you give us all the information we need. The imagination can do the rest.

The only gripe, if I can call it that, is I sometimes felt confused visually. In terms of where the characters were in relation to each other, or the car for example. The bulldozer. I think this is because of your succinct writing style. Which I enjoy. Got a better sense of it the second time around.

Overall, i Really liked this one. I think you did a hell of a lot with just eight pages.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood A few thoughts, just my opinion of course... I think the first scene is over described with just too many things listed, almost reads like a shot list.

In a way I suppose it is, Anthony. But I think it works better with it. Unless you live there or somewhere like it, it is very different from other places. It also sets the tone. It's much easier to imagine Jack the Kid after it.

Anybody vaguely familiar with English accents, particularly those from oop north will be able to imagine how these characters sound after the opening.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood 1991 - body piercings, were they prevalent then?.

Oh yes.

Especially round our way. The tattoos and piercing craze did take off much bigger after this.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood Building site, you wouldn't build and demolish at the asme time, sites are levelled first to create a brownfield site and then built on.

I humbly disagree. But what you state is exactly what should happen, but often doesn't. Particularly when I was on building sites back in the eighties and nineties. Most places were doing everything arse about tit.

You'd lay a new road. Perfect, or close. Then the council would send somebody out to dig the thing up within days of it being finished, to lay a pipe. They would often do this.

Once they've dug it up and done whatever they had to do, they don't finish their trench or hole properly and within a few weeks the whole bloody thing has more potholes in it than it did when it started.

With this site the story is the building firm has gone bump, as was often the case back then. Still is too. Jack works as plant hire for a new contractor who's taken on this site. It's always a bit more complicated than it might seem.

The previous contractor should have knocked this stuff down before they started building. But lack of funds and too many bastards in the company meant they didn't.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood There's a distinct style to the writing that jarred with me for a couple of pages, then I caught the rhythm of it, liked it..

I can see that. Glad you liked it once you got the rhythm of it.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood Pulled me in but then the ending caught me by surprise a little, I guess I wanted a deeper connection. Thanks Anthony

Maybe it doesn't stop there. We shall have to see. I didn't kill them. Yet. So maybe there might be more.

Many thanks for the read. I'll be sure to return it when time allows.

I'll also be responding to all these other posts in order, soon. But now I have to go and see a man about a pig. No, a real one. Honest. Somebody's gotta keep the goat company. And I've heard pigs are absolutely no trouble at all.

R

Hi Ren,

I'm from ooop North in England as well!

THE WRONG SIDE OF AN ENGLISH CITY

I love that scene heading, it says everything in such a short space of time so well!

But then we get half a page describing what was just said so well in one line. This section reads like a poem (a good poem though!).

The rest of the script very eloquently tells us exactly how the actors should act, what the scenes should look like to the minute detail and even how extras like the birds should behave. This is less of a blueprint and more along the lines of a list of detailed instructions.

Is it essential this be set in 1991? It's mentioned in the logline and as a SUPER so it must be important to the tale but I don't find anything which ties this specifically to that year. It could be set anytime in the last 30 years.  

There's very little in the way of story through all this pizzazz, it's more like a couple of scenes from a film but it's written very well and the characters seem very real. I enjoyed it more as if I were reading a few pages from a much larger book than a screenplay, if that makes any sense.

I did enjoy it though, it had character.

Mark

Quoted from JimiLamp Ren, Nice job with this. It was different, subtle, understated. I had to read it twice as I was a bit unfamiliar with some of the words/slang. But was happy to go through it twice. I enjoy the way you build and put together scenes/descriptions. It brings a bit a tension along with the tone and visuals. And think it worked particularly well with the setting. The setting feels very much like a third character here.

Understandable, reading it twice. Glad you went to the trouble, and were happy in doing so. Considering where you're from. The idea people might read this completely unaware what the wrong side of town in England looks like prompted the intro.

The setting is the third character. Very pleased to know you thought so. Or maybe it's the machine. This is what fascinates the kid. Of course he's also fascinated with the man who can make the machine dance to his tune. Not that he'd ever tell him so.

I like both of them. They're both aspects of me. Or people I've known.

Quoted from JimiLamp The asides didn't bother me. For the most part I thought the added rather than deterred. I also like how you add a bit of sly humor in description -  "aggressive cats" "dogs. and their shit." Little bits like that kept me interested and helped set the tone.

Compliments will serve you well with me. I really am that way inclined. Would you like a cake? There's black forest or battenburg.

Quoted from JimiLamp I also really liked the subtext and understated quality of these two characters interaction. And the mystery of the kid. Really felt the frustration of what it might be like to live in this area, that in way almost felt like an alien planet. Especially for someone from the American South West.

It still goes on. I like to think I'm streetwise and could talk myself out of most situations when proverbial shit hits fan. But there's certain areas of England into which I would not venture after dark.

It'd be a push to go there in daylight, even. The only ones that are there are those that live there, and have to be there. The way things are going, these areas will never change.

Quoted from JimiLamp But back to the characters. It was interesting to see them interact and the misunderstanding of the interaction. I thought it worked well, felt real. And always wondering where this kid comes from. You get the sense that he's seen it all and can't except someones just giving him a sandwich. That's all. I really wanted to know more about the kid but the mystery works. In a way, just from his mannerisms and the way he interacts, you give us all the information we need. The imagination can do the rest.

Exactly right. Thank you very much.

Quoted from JimiLamp The only gripe, if I can call it that, is I sometimes felt confused visually. In terms of where the characters were in relation to each other, or the car for example. The bulldozer. I think this is because of your succinct writing style. Which I enjoy. Got a better sense of it the second time around.

Well all that's fair enough. I could have them doing loads of things. But I like to under direct the characters. From what they say it's clear enough what they are doing and where they are. I used to direct them a lot. But I've been told by many it's not needed.

Quoted from JimiLamp Overall, i Really liked this one. I think you did a hell of a lot with just eight pages.

Wonderful. I'm really pleased this one is going down well with so many. It's one of my favourites. I've high hopes of seeing it on film one day. I think it would work well.

Many thanks. Owe you one.

R

Ren

I remember reading this before. I know it involved a digger driver in a construction site, a kid and of course, the titular snack! but nothing past that so I can’t really compare.

I dig the opening slugline.

I liked the use the Scottish slang “bairns” too.

While I appreciate the verbosity of the opening images in really setting the scene that “yes, this is a place civilised society has forgotten” you could probably wrap it up sooner. So much of it would never make it to screen unless you used archive footage or something.

I love the term “bellied”.

The image of this singular machine bashing away in a vast wasteland gives it dystopian undertones. Like its set in some futuristic industrial nightmare…post apocalyptic of course. Was this intentional?

“Smoke pumps from his nose.”

- Good visual, mirroring the machine.

JACK
Oh. I am. Nosebag time.

- I thought he was talking about Cocaine here. A UK term I’m sure.

“Pulls out a small tin of baccy,”

- Who carries a tin of tobacco anymore, particularly a youth? This really is the place that time, as well as civilised society, has left behind. I presume this is your intention.

“cut thick enough to kill several mice with kindness.”

- That made me chuckle.

“A small rip’s visible.”

- I know you’re a stickler for grammar but should it be “rip is” instead of “rip’s”

“Animated as ever”

- I know this is reproachfully anal but I don’t remember the Kid being remarkably animated the first time around. He hummed and passed the machine a few times but he wasn’t particularly expressive. On the other hand, I pictured him as nervous, withdrawn. In fact, in this scene he seems noticeably chipper even though it looks like he’s gotten into a scrap. Anyway, moving on...

“Pulls out baccy.”

- Funny how the Kid has baccy but no food. A true smoker, they’ll starve rather than go without!

THE KID
Top band. Gedge is good, man. Lost
Pandas. All that.

- Obscure 80s/90/s band reference ahoy! I’ll be honest, I had to look it up.

“Jack spins his cigarette.”

- I like how Jack asked for the cigarette so the Kid wouldn’t feel bad about taking the sandwich and drink. Pre-meditated I imagine.

THE KID
I don’t like cheese.

- Would he not have detected the cheese before now considering h’d already eaten half the sandwich?

I have vague memories of the draft I read way back when being elliptical in its meaning now that I’ve finished this. Would I be correct in saying that the bird reappeared and took the sandwich or something? That rings a bell or maybe I’m thinking of a different script.

Are you going for the idea of compassion/generosity/friendliness/humanity, etc and its increasing scarcity in today’s world? In that it has almost become a forgotten or foreign concept? So when someone is altruistic, doing a good dead for the sake of it as opposed to favours for favours, we treat that individual with suspicion, question their motives, agenda? Although this does take place in the 90s it’s probably more relevant now.

Even when Jack proffers his sandwich, no strings attached, it’s still ultimately rejected by the kid because of his aversion to cheese. It’s like sometimes beggars can be choosers, you can’t change some folk, etc. Although it’s a Kid so we can forgive him. It’s the same sentiment as “Kids can say the cruellest things” because, we assume, they don’t know any better.

I would ask you to elaborate on the message or theme you’re trying to convey here but I’m predicting a Lynchian “taking the fifth” response.

Aside from that, I was engaged in the world you created although I would never want to go there. The script certainly has character, both in its location and the two people we meet who dwell within it. You effectively capture a time, a place, an atmosphere. If anything, it has a unique voice and isn’t that what all writers are striving for.

Col.

Follow up...

I was born in a back to back terrace in Armley, Leeds... compulsory purchased so council could build a new swimming baths... next 12 years in council house...

So I know the setting and feel you bring it out really well ;-)

Quoted from DS P1: "Cheeky kids. Fat folk. Skinny folk. Scruffy types. Scary types." I don't picture how these people are supposed to look like after reading this.

Oh dear. They're just quick flashes of life here. So you get the feel of the place.

Quoted from DS I get the cheeky kids and the scruffy and scary types. But the fat and skinny folks in between is just very general and takes you out of it. So basically, there's all sorts of people? And where are they supposed to be and what are they supposed to be doing?

They're shopping. Or looking in windows. Or just out and about. They'd be on screen for a second or so. Then they're gone.

Quoted from DS "Corner shops. Run down pubs. Graffiti. Tattoos. Body piercings. Smashed bus shelters." Huh, where exactly are the tattoos and body piercings? I for one can't tell if you had tattoo/body piercing shops in mind or people with them in mind. If it's people it would fit much better in the line above.

I could have had a voice over saying this stuff. But I thought it would be more intesting the way I have it. Some people have tatoos, back then you could see them on people's necks and hands. Or their arms if they're showing. I could have been more specific. But the idea was to give a quickish general feel about the place to set a mood. You want it to be a shop, that's fine. It can also be people. Different people see different things.

Quoted from DS "Fish and chips. Greasy burgers. Kebabs. Aggressive cats." Having a hard time picturing quite how or where this would fit into this external shot. Where are they? Lying around in the street somewhere? Are people eating them? Are cats eating them? Or are they fish and chip/burger/kebab joints somewhere?

Well. You could have a chip shop. Then another take away with a fat bloke coming out eating a burger. Another place has a young lad doing the same but with a kebab.

Then you have a cat on a corner fighting with another cat. Or a dog. It would be up to a director and editor. I'm just trying to give them some ideas.

Quoted from DS I think this scene runs too long in overall. Too many different locations right at the start of the script. I believe you could fit all of the necessary detail into one or two establishing shots.

I humbly disagree.

Quoted from DS P3: JACK Hey. Woah! Don�t go, soft lad! Don't go soft, lad - I assume? Don't really see why Jack would call him a soft lad.

You don't know, Jack. He thinks he's a soft lad for storming off when he clearly was going to get fed.

Quoted from DS After reading both this and Take Care, your distinctive writing style clearly shows. Very visual and not shy on action lines. It works quite effectively in parts for me, not so effectively in some.

I agree with everything here, apart from the very last bit. But this is frankly typical of me. And you're entitled to your opinion, DS.

Quoted from DS The short has a very cryptic feel to it. Three reads in, I have no idea what the underlying message is suppose to be. Something about David Gedge and the lack of altruism in the world or how it's taken for granted...? Yeah, I don't know. - DS

Thanks. I'm pleased you took the time to read it three times. With some people I can barely get them to read the first three pages.

There's a subtext you can read into it which could mean a couple of different things.

Or there's the surface. There's a lot of misunderstanding between these two fellas. Which I'm quite happy with. I like these characters and I may come back to them at some point. When Lara Croft has let her steely grip on me go. And the goat quietens down.

Many thanks for the read and comments, DS.

R

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the responses from Americans, particularly those attempting to correct. 'Soft lad' is a saying from up north (Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle way) and applies to people that are easily offended, or soft in any way whatsoever.

Anyway, I read this yesterday. At times, I found the descriptions in the action lines a little too abrupt, in danger of losing the voice, which is a shame, because you have a strong one. As stated by someone earlier, it's the asides (your voice) that keeps me in. So, even with the staccato flow, you do enough to keep me reading, I just feel your writing would benefit better from putting more in. I know you don't want to direct the actors, but fluck 'em, it's your story, they do what they're told. As writers we do all of those jobs while we write... we may not exactly produce the physical film, but we do an imagined one. We set the scenes and direct everything from lighting to where the actors should be standing... if we feel like it. Or we can do none of those, as you've elected. As a reader though, I'd rather hear more of the voice coming through.

You want people to think about what you've written for a while afterwards, and it works. I'm still thinking about it now. For me, the story is partly about the difficulty people of different age ranges have in communicating. It reminds me of my gf's granddad. I'd like to be able to talk to him more, but whenever I try I feel that the age gap is just too large and we barely understand each other. I'm sure he feels the same.

Then there's the whole cheese sandwich and drink thing. Each character has their own story and angle that is often so subtly divulged that it takes reading two or three times to pick up on it. Clever. Quite arty. Almost like a painting... the longer you look, the more you see. Nice work, well done.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw Hi Ren, I'm from ooop North in England as well!

Hello Mark. Well done. You can take the lad out of the north. But not out of the lad. I do find it unnerving that a lot of the characters in Game of Thrones seem sound as if they grew up in Lancashire. It does work well. But I do have this strange expectation for them to say 'A pint of bitter please, Betty. Ooh, and some hotpot.' any moment.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw THE WRONG SIDE OF AN ENGLISH CITY I love that scene heading, it says everything in such a short space of time so well! But then we get half a page describing what was just said so well in one line. This section reads like a poem (a good poem though!).

Indeed that heading does. Amazing what can be done with words when you get it right. I write a lot. So even I'm bound to get right now and again.

A poem? Thanks very much. Hopefully more Coleridge than Pam Ayers.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw The rest of the script very eloquently tells us exactly how the actors should act, what the scenes should look like to the minute detail and even how extras like the birds should behave. This is less of a blueprint and more along the lines of a list of detailed instructions.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I wanted to get it to appear clear enough in people's heads. But they may be some truth in what you say.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw Is it essential this be set in 1991? It's mentioned in the logline and as a SUPER so it must be important to the tale but I don't find anything which ties this specifically to that year. It could be set anytime in the last 30 years.

  

I thought it better to just have a year so readers can picture it more easily. Hardly anyone's got a mobile. Laptops are still heavy things rarely used. And Kurt Cobain and Freddie Mercury are still very much alive. It doesn't have to be then, it's not essential. But it felt the best place for it.

Quoted from MarkRenshaw There's very little in the way of story through all this pizzazz, it's more like a couple of scenes from a film but it's written very well and the characters seem very real. I enjoyed it more as if I were reading a few pages from a much larger book than a screenplay, if that makes any sense. I did enjoy it though, it had character. Mark

Pizzazz? I'm gonna check what that means.

Oh. Not half as bad as what I thought it meant. I was going for that Ken Loach / Mike Leigh feel, as I like their films very much.

Thanks for your kind comments. Saying it had character is about as good as it gets, in my book.

I'll respond to Col next then respond the others when the urge takes and time allows. Until then thanks to all who posted and read this. Tis much appreciated.

R

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Ren I remember reading this before. I know it involved a digger driver in a construction site, a kid and of course, the titular snack! but nothing past that so I can’t really compare.

No doubt you did. Was a while ago now. I had a few ideas for it and always liked it.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 I dig the opening slugline. I liked the use the Scottish slang “bairns” too.

I've always been fond of the 'bairns' word. I have a vague memory of reading it when I was a kid myself in A Kestral For a Knave. I think it was that one. It made a mark then and I've heard it plenty times in conversations since. It's kind of a nice word to describe children. Also some how implies they can troublesome.

I do like the opening header too. Shows you can play about with the usual format and still keep the right side of the rules.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 While I appreciate the verbosity of the opening images in really setting the scene that “yes, this is a place civilised society has forgotten” you could probably wrap it up sooner. So much of it would never make it to screen unless you used archive footage or something. I love the term “bellied”.

I probably could. You could maybe lose half of it. I played around with it for ages. It did used to go on longer, then it was definitely overegging it. I think it's about right as it is. I hope so, anyway,

I meant as a series of shots. So it'd go on for about thrity seconds or more before you get to the site. Which I thought was about right for what I had in mind.

Yeah, bellied. It's past tense. But I think it summon up the right image from most minds best.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 The image of this singular machine bashing away in a vast wasteland gives it dystopian undertones. Like its set in some futuristic industrial nightmare…post apocalyptic of course. Was this intentional?

Woah. We're getting deep. And you're right. There was something not quite right about the sight of a man at the controls of these huge beasts of machines. It adds to the tone of what I was trying to do. Not quite 1984. But along those lines.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 “Smoke pumps from his nose.” - Good visual, mirroring the machine. JACK Oh. I am. Nosebag time. - I thought he was talking about Cocaine here. A UK term I’m sure.

Eh? Hanging around building for way too many years taught me many would often say 'it's nosebag time' when it was time to eat. Quite why they were comparing themselves to a horse is a subject for elsewhere.

Cocaine? Do they strap a bag onto their face around your way when they wanna get high? Sorry. No need for that.

I do remember having some serious debates about the 'smoke pumps' wording with a few people. They didn't like it. I did, so it's there. Many of them said it was wrong. I still think it conjures up the right image for what I meant. Which is probably what's it all about.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 “Pulls out a small tin of baccy,” - Who carries a tin of tobacco anymore, particularly a youth? This really is the place that time, as well as civilised society, has left behind. I presume this is your intention.

I've seen lots carrying tins of baccy around. Maybe less than there was then. But the dedicated roll up maker would. The intention was he has money for tobacco, and is unlikely to be without. Food is a different matter.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 “cut thick enough to kill several mice with kindness.” - That made me chuckle. “A small rip’s visible.” - I know you’re a stickler for grammar but should it be “rip is” instead of “rip’s”

Glad you chuckled at the cheese. Also makes it stick in the mind enough for the rest of the story to work.

It maybe could be 'rip is' as opposed to what I have in there. "rip's" is just the contracted version. Sounded more in style with the story. I don't think the pedants will be too upset. You never know.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 “Animated as ever” - I know this is reproachfully anal but I don’t remember the Kid being remarkably animated the first time around. He hummed and passed the machine a few times but he wasn’t particularly expressive. On the other hand, I pictured him as nervous, withdrawn. In fact, in this scene he seems noticeably chipper even though it looks like he’s gotten into a scrap. Anyway, moving on...

Hmm. Animated meaning he's always moving something and never still. Most people are still, if even for a short time. A little nervous and withdrawn is right.

He seems chipper. But then he's a kid living in a shithole place. He'd have to be all front or else he'd be attracting kickings for the numerous thugs.  

Quoted from Colkurtz8 “Pulls out baccy.” - Funny how the Kid has baccy but no food. A true smoker, they’ll starve rather than go without! THE KID Top band. Gedge is good, man. Lost Pandas. All that. - Obscure 80s/90/s band reference ahoy! I’ll be honest, I had to look it up.

You got the baccy bit. Was it only me who knew and remembers about Gedge? This is possible.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 “Jack spins his cigarette.” - I like how Jack asked for the cigarette so the Kid wouldn’t feel bad about taking the sandwich and drink. Pre-meditated I imagine. THE KID I don’t like cheese. - Would he not have detected the cheese before now considering h’d already eaten half the sandwich?

Pre-meditated indeed.

I think you're underestimating how hungry the Kid was.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 I have vague memories of the draft I read way back when being elliptical in its meaning now that I’ve finished this. Would I be correct in saying that the bird reappeared and took the sandwich or something? That rings a bell or maybe I’m thinking of a different script.

I think you're wrong about that. Must be a different script.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Are you going for the idea of compassion/generosity/friendliness/humanity, etc and its increasing scarcity in today’s world? In that it has almost become a forgotten or foreign concept? So when someone is altruistic, doing a good dead for the sake of it as opposed to favours for favours, we treat that individual with suspicion, question their motives, agenda? Although this does take place in the 90s it’s probably more relevant now.

I am. One of the reasons I set it in the 90s. It's one of the few things you can genuinely say has got worse. It was getting bad back then.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Even when Jack proffers his sandwich, no strings attached, it’s still ultimately rejected by the kid because of his aversion to cheese. It’s like sometimes beggars can be choosers, you can’t change some folk, etc. Although it’s a Kid so we can forgive him. It’s the same sentiment as “Kids can say the cruellest things” because, we assume, they don’t know any better.

All about right. Apart from maybe Kid isn't as bothered about causing offence. Not because he doesn't care. He maybe doesn't realise how offended people can be sometimes, whether it's meant or not.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 I would ask you to elaborate on the message or theme you’re trying to convey here but I’m predicting a Lynchian “taking the fifth” response.

You'd be right about that.

I'm not so closed I won't clear some things up. I'm dealing with two types on a building site here and a sandwich. I'm not including dream sequences and dwarves and Lodges.

More a comment, or even just a finger pointing at, how such a country like England can have such neglected areas. And still does. It's not just England either. Nearly every first world country has places like these. Just different slang and different accents. Part of that beginning with the dogs and cats is to show even the pets can be different in a place like this.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Aside from that, I was engaged in the world you created although I would never want to go there. The script certainly has character, both in its location and the two people we meet who dwell within it. You effectively capture a time, a place, an atmosphere. If anything, it has a unique voice and isn’t that what all writers are striving for. Col.

This last paragraph is high praise indeed from yourself. And most appreciated. Many thanks, fella.

R

I liked it.  Had some style.  I wasn't really into the characters, but I liked the descriptions/actions.

Quoted from rendevous I've always been fond of the 'bairns' word. I have a vague memory of reading it when I was a kid myself in A Kestral For a Knave. I think it was that one. It made a mark then and I've heard it plenty times in conversations since. It's kind of a nice word to describe children. Also some how implies they can troublesome.

- Aye, I came across it reading a lot of Irvine Welsh and Christopher Brookmyre. Great term.

Quoted from rendevous I meant as a series of shots. So it'd go on for about thrity seconds or more before you get to the site. Which I thought was about right for what I had in mind.

- It works, sets up that specific, time, place and atmosphere I liked about the script.

Quoted from rendevous I do remember having some serious debates about the 'smoke pumps' wording with a few people. They didn't like it. I did, so it's there. Many of them said it was wrong. I still think it conjures up the right image for what I meant. Which is probably what's it all about.

- Ignore those people. ;) Seriously though, that's a prime example of pedantry getting in the way of emotion/feeling/sensation. A "not being able to see the wood from the trees" scenario. It suits perfectly, especially in relation to the machine.

Quoted from rendevous I've seen lots carrying tins of baccy around. Maybe less than there was then. But the dedicated roll up maker would. The intention was he has money for tobacco, and is unlikely to be without. Food is a different matter.

- Yeah, on hindsight this was a bogus comment from me since its set in 91. Ignore this too ;)

Col.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood Follow up... I was born in a back to back terrace in Armley, Leeds... compulsory purchased so council could build a new swimming baths... next 12 years in council house... So I know the setting and feel you bring it out really well ;-)

I do believe they give medals for less.

It's heartening and encouraging to know you're very familiar with the type of places I'm trying to commit to paper, albeit electronic, and you think I brought it out well.

Many thanks.

R

Quoted from DustinBowcot I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the responses from Americans, particularly those attempting to correct. 'Soft lad' is a saying from up north (Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle way) and applies to people that are easily offended, or soft in any way whatsoever.

I'm sure it's not just Americans who think such things. But it did amuse me too. To be fair though, there's no way they could know unless they were familiar. Ah, the Brits. How they laugh when foreigners mispronounce or misundertand things only the locals know.

That's why they say Magdalene college at Oxford in the ridiculous way they do.

And have three different sounds for bough, rough and though.

Oops. I'm rambling.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Anyway, I read this yesterday. At times, I found the descriptions in the action lines a little too abrupt, in danger of losing the voice, which is a shame, because you have a strong one. As stated by someone earlier, it's the asides (your voice) that keeps me in. So, even with the staccato flow, you do enough to keep me reading, I just feel your writing would benefit better from putting more in. I know you don't want to direct the actors, but fluck 'em, it's your story, they do what they're told. As writers we do all of those jobs while we write... we may not exactly produce the physical film, but we do an imagined one. We set the scenes and direct everything from lighting to where the actors should be standing... if we feel like it. Or we can do none of those, as you've elected. As a reader though, I'd rather hear more of the voice coming through.

There's some good points here. It was quite a bit longer. But I trimmed it down to what was actually needed. I always do. Then I put a bit back in because I've gone too far. I leave it for a while and piddle about more. Then I stick it up here.

Lots of compliments in there. And fair ideas. The last one struck as high praise. Particularly coming from yourself. Most appreciated. I'll try and bear it in mind the next time you write something in a post I disagree with...

Quoted from DustinBowcot You want people to think about what you've written for a while afterwards, and it works. I'm still thinking about it now.

I do want to make them think about it afterwards.

It's great to know you did so. For quite some time too. Thank was the point of the story really. Make these two seem real enough for you to wonder about why they are the way thhe are and what they actually mean with what they say.

Quoted from DustinBowcot For me, the story is partly about the difficulty people of different age ranges have in communicating. It reminds me of my gf's granddad. I'd like to be able to talk to him more, but whenever I try I feel that the age gap is just too large and we barely understand each other. I'm sure he feels the same.

That's the very idea. You're speaking the same language, yet have no idea how to have a proper conversation with each other.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Then there's the whole cheese sandwich and drink thing. Each character has their own story and angle that is often so subtly divulged that it takes reading two or three times to pick up on it. Clever. Quite arty. Almost like a painting... the longer you look, the more you see. Nice work, well done.

Thanks very much. I'm flattered, and extremely pleased you thought so.

R

The deadline has passed, at last. I can get on with something else. Like this, for instance...

Quoted from Deadite I liked it.  Had some style.  I wasn't really into the characters, but I liked the descriptions/actions.

Thank you, Deadite. Wherever you may be. It appears you've left us. It said Steve yesterday instead of your name. Now it just says 'Guest' so I assume you're gone, for the foreseeable at least. I for one will miss you. Come back soon.

Quoted from ColKurtz (regarding the usage of 'smoke pumps')- Ignore those people. ;) Seriously though, that's a prime example of pedantry getting in the way of emotion/feeling/sensation. A "not being able to see the wood from the trees" scenario. It suits perfectly, especially in relation to the machine.

Precisely my own feelings, eloquently put.

Quoted from ColKurtz Yeah, on hindsight this was a bogus comment from me since its set in 91. Ignore this too ;)

Consider it done. It's always impressive when someone agrees they weren't right about something. Strengthens their other comments. Something I must practice more myself. I mean admitting I'm wrong. When I am, not now.

Anyways, if anyone isn't reading and commenting on those OWC thingies, feel free to have a read of this for a return read of your choice. I'm working on a follow up, so insights into these two would be most welcome.

My thanks to those who have read this and commented. And also to those who just read it.

R

Great to see this as 'Short Script Of The Day', even if it is randomly generated.

I commented on The Sandwich when it was first posted way back, seem to remember Pia did as well and compared it to one of her award winning favourite writers (who shall remain nameless here - rest assured it was a huge compliment) and I'm in agreement.

You manage to evoke some terrific images with this and conjure the time, place, characters, superbly.

Pity 'short' seekers are often looking for that twist or cheap hook. I think this would showcase an up and comer's reel perfectly, and I would love to see this come alive on screen.

Here's hoping some talented filmmaker takes up the challenge. :)

Quoted from LC Pity 'short' seekers are often looking for that twist or cheap hook.

I agree. Seems like 99% of shorts are going for some kind of twist on the last page.

Oooh. A review. Of one of mine too. Oooh!

Quoted from LC Great to see this as 'Short Script Of The Day'

Have I won an award or something? Hang on... cough... I'd like to thank the academy...

Quoted from LC ...even if it is randomly generated.

Well, that has taken the wind out of my trousers, I mean sails. Honestly.

Obviously I think awards are meaningless and aren't important at all. Every film is equal. Unless I win an award, of course. Then I'll think they are absolutely vital.

Quoted from LC I commented on The Sandwich when it was first posted way back, seem to remember Pia did as well and compared it to one of her award winning favourite writers (who shall remain nameless here - rest assured it was a huge compliment) and I'm in agreement.

This is great. Keep going. You bring the biscuits and I'll warm the pot. Erm, that's not a euphemism. At least I don't think so.

Quoted from LC You manage to evoke some terrific images with this and conjure the time, place, characters, superbly.

Oh yes. Now you're talking. Seriously, it is one of my better efforts. Dredged from the memories of all those bloody days I spent on building sites. I was working there, I wasn't stealing things. Honest.

Quoted from LC Pity 'short' seekers are often looking for that twist or cheap hook. I think this would showcase an up and comer's reel perfectly, and I would love to see this come alive on screen.

Hear, hear. Now if only some talented bugger reads this and that bit I almost repeated on my To Be script.

Quoted from LC Here's hoping some talented filmmaker takes up the challenge. :)

Indeed. Many thanks.

Quoted from Demento I agree. Seems like 99% of shorts are going for some kind of twist on the last page.

I agree too, Demento. The end the way I have it felt right. Still does. My thanks.

R