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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  Horror Scripts  /  The Twelve Step Killers
Posted by: Don, June 7th, 2015, 10:46am
The Twelve Step Killers by Mark Renshaw - Horror - During a one-on-one meeting with his sponsor, a new Psychotics Anonymous member attempts to learn how to control his urge to kill. When the session is interrupted by a zombie outbreak, he finds himself hiding with two highly killable strangers. Will he be able to suppress his instincts, or will he succumb to a life as a ruthless killer?

Ultra-low budget Dark Comedy/Psychological Thriller with one main location. 83 pages - pdf, format 8)
Posted by: PrussianMosby, June 10th, 2015, 2:41pm; Reply: 1
Yo Mark.

I look forward to see your characterization of the psychos. Will turn my eyes on your script within the next days; I hope so.

The title reads great. Ultra-low-budget reads as if you want to serve an attractive script for the indie-markets.

I cut down the logline with regards to my understanding of what you have here and how to write it shorter:


When a Psychotics Anonymous session between a (adjective) sponsor and his needy visitor is interrupted by a zombie outbreak, two stranded, highly killable strangers unbalance everything with teaching them a crash course of suppressing the urge to kill.

When a zombie outbreak leaves two highly killable strangers stranded in a Psychotics Anonymous session between a sponsor and his new pupil, an easy lesson becomes a crash course of suppressing the urge to kill.


^^ Okay, this is my bad English ;-), at least this gives you a structure/possibility of how to write it in one sentence and get rid of more than 20 words, if this helps.

Maybe it's wrong to only use one sentence though because the Zombie-part reads as if it doesn't belong to the story???


I'll come back with some notes soon...

Alex
Posted by: DanC, June 11th, 2015, 12:48am; Reply: 2
Hey Mark,
    I'm so happy you listed this.  Hey folks, read this story.  It's really good and a lot of fun.

True story, Mark and I were having heated debates about his characters weeks later, that was how good this story was!!
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, June 11th, 2015, 9:52am; Reply: 3
Hey Alex, thanks for the logline suggestions. The logline wasn’t mine, I had the script reviewed by an ‘industry professional’ over at The Black List and he came up with that logline so I decided to use his, as he must know best right? Lol, it’s interesting that the first comment is to make the logline read leaner….which I agree with btw!

Dan – Thanks for the words of encouragement but anyone reading his comments please don’t get your expectations up! This is my first proper attempt at a feature. Me being me I decided to challenge myself to a single room scenario to make it more attractive to indy filmmakers looking for a low budget script. The result was I made life very difficult for myself.

So I think there’s a great (and quite original) idea in there but it needs work. It is very much a vomit draft. There’s lots of dialogue (including a world record breaking monologue lol) which may put some people off and I’ve broken some rules but saying that, any feedback is welcome. Taking the jump from shorts to features has been a very scary experience!


-Mark
Posted by: DS, June 11th, 2015, 11:35am; Reply: 4

Quoted from DanC


True story, Mark and I were having heated debates about his characters weeks later, that was how good this story was!!


Sounds fun. :)

I agree with Prussian, the logline reads wonky to me too. Especially, the phrase "highly killable strangers".

My suggestion would be something in the lines of this: "A man with psychopathic tendencies battles with his urges to kill while forced into hiding with his Psychotics Anonymous sponsor and another stranger during a zombie outbreak."

I haven't read the script yet, but a few thoughts popped into my head about the zombie aspect here.

It's stated that this is a contained thriller and that the characters go into hiding. That leads me to believe that zombies won't get much screentime and the focus won't really be on them. I dunno, from the premise alone it sounds like you might not completely get the zombie film audience on board as it doesn't sound like zombies are a big part of the script. While on the other hand, zombies might put off the dark comedy/thriller audience for it.

In films with zombies, you never really get a lot of moral obstacles about killing them either. If the main character really has a huge urge to kill, isn't a zombie outbreak in itself too easy of a solution to his problem and maybe even a distraction from the tension you could have?

I haven't read it yet, maybe it all comes together in the script, but based on the presentation, I have a strange feeling that all of this just isn't adding up. The premise does sounds glorious without the zombies, though. Is it just me?
Posted by: Max, June 11th, 2015, 1:14pm; Reply: 5
Sup Mark,

Thought I'd chime in and give you a 10 PAGE feedback.  Some of the stuff will be nitpicky but take it how you want to take it.

Okay, here we go!

1. BLACK SCREEN:

Personally I'd change that to OVER BLACK:, minor detail but I think it works better.

2. FIRST SLUG


Quoted Text
INT. LODGE HOUSE MEETING HALL - DAY


I would put a HYPHEN between LODGE HOUSE and MEETING HALL.  It's a good idea to separate the master location from the sub-location.

3. p1.


Quoted Text
A large, lavishly furnished room which oozes dollar signs. In the centre is a circular table surrounded by leather chairs.


You could eliminate the use of "is" here by using a comma. For Example:


Quoted Text
A large, lavishly furnished room which oozes dollar signs. In the centre, a circular table surrounded by leather chairs.


Use "is" sparingly as many people feel it slows down the read, I work to avoid this also.

4. p1


Quoted Text
Mr. Homn pours Larry a cup. The task finished, he bows and returns to the door to stand guard.


The bold is totally unnecessary and superfluous IMO, just write...


Quoted Text
Mr. Homn pours Larry a cup.

Mr. Homn bows, and stands guard at the door.


You don't need to say "returns to the door", we know he hasn't warped there to stand guard.

These are just ways to trim the fat.

5. p1.


Quoted Text
Sugar is added anyway.


If I recall I think Dreamscale told me about this one, who is the subject performing the action? Of course we can assume it's Noah from the dialogue, but if he did so, write it in the action line.

6. p2.


Quoted Text
The spoon stirs, the coffee swirls. Noah sits back, sips his brew with a sigh and a smirk of satisfaction.


The spoon stirs? I know you're trying to draw attention to the stirring with this line but it reads awkwardly, at least to me.

Is Larry stirring his coffee, or is Noah? They both have coffee.  It doesn't matter that you followed the sentence with "Noah sits back"... because he could've sat back after Larry stirred his coffee.

Things weren't crystal clear here.

7. p2.


Quoted Text
With a smirk Noah retrieves a piece of paper lay before Larry.


Again, doesn't read right.

Lay before Larry? Another thing to revise perhaps.

8. p2.


Quoted Text
With careful consideration, Larry places the pen back in it’s rightful place on the table. Satisfied he sits back down.


"its"... not "it's"

9. p2.


Quoted Text
A knife on the refreshment trolley glints in the reflection off the room’s spotlights. Noah retrieves it.


This is another awkward piece of writing IMO.  I notice you use "retrieves" a lot as well, try spicing it up with that, people aren't robots or computers.

10. p5.

THE FLASHBACK

I'd use BEGIN FLASHBACK, not FLASHBACK TO:


Quoted Text

INT. BATHROOM - DAY

Noah and Larry appear as passengers inside Noah’s memory. Noah is on his knees next to the bath holding his nine year old BROTHER down under the water as Larry calmly observes.


NINE YEAR OLD BROTHER (should be all CAPS)

This is a confusing passage.  From what I can gather, Noah and Larry are both in Noah's mind, watching Noah in the past as he kills his brother.

Is that right? Or is Larry watching Noah's past actions by himself? If that's the case, why is there no V.O? Or is the dialogue being spoken while he's murdering his brother? SUPER-CONFUSING, and I'm sure there's a better way to format this.

If Noah is watching a younger version of himself, the younger version should be CAPPED as a new character IMO.

11. p5.


Quoted Text
JERRY
Why did it take so long?


Jerry? Who is Jerry? Isn't that supposed to be "Larry"? Confused, again.

12. p5.

BACK TO SCENE


This MINI-SLUG is incorrect as you didn't establish that we were back in the meeting hall.  This MINI-SLUG occurs under the BATHROOM SCENE HEADER.

13. p8.

BACK TO SCENE

MINI-SLUG, same problem as before.

I'm not really feeling this Mark, sorry.  The potential is there for a great story but it's so bloody confusing, I didn't know where to start.
Posted by: Busy Little Bee, June 11th, 2015, 9:35pm; Reply: 6
Hey, Mark, yeah that logline makes for an interesting read. I think the hook works well for the genre. You have some good support beams as far as story structure/character arc. A very flawed character, who some may argue has an unrealistic character arc, however, I'd say you'd just have a hell of challenge convincing us that this man, a potential serial killer would save lives for sake of saving lives.

I'm about 25 pages... not too sure how I feel about Noah's technique about how he goes about his psycho AA meetings, but what do I know about it, haha. Uh, nugget to point out is the exposition with the two females, Aileen and Mary. The exposition is just that, exposition. Maybe try to disguise with a disagreement about what's happening and exposition comes out of it.

I'm interested to see what the next turn will be and how, this character, Larry.

BLB
Posted by: Max, June 12th, 2015, 3:46pm; Reply: 7
Were my comments helpful to you Mark? It'd be nice to get some feedback from you.
Posted by: DanC, June 13th, 2015, 10:35pm; Reply: 8

Quoted from Max
Were my comments helpful to you Mark? It'd be nice to get some feedback from you.


I'd say Mark must be tied up right now.  He's really good at getting back...

I'm shocked that u didn't like the story Max.  I thought it was awesome.

Dan
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, June 14th, 2015, 10:55am; Reply: 9

Quoted from DS


Sounds fun. :)

I agree with Prussian, the logline reads wonky to me too. Especially, the phrase "highly killable strangers".

My suggestion would be something in the lines of this: "A man with psychopathic tendencies battles with his urges to kill while forced into hiding with his Psychotics Anonymous sponsor and another stranger during a zombie outbreak."

I haven't read the script yet, but a few thoughts popped into my head about the zombie aspect here.

It's stated that this is a contained thriller and that the characters go into hiding. That leads me to believe that zombies won't get much screentime and the focus won't really be on them. I dunno, from the premise alone it sounds like you might not completely get the zombie film audience on board as it doesn't sound like zombies are a big part of the script. While on the other hand, zombies might put off the dark comedy/thriller audience for it.

In films with zombies, you never really get a lot of moral obstacles about killing them either. If the main character really has a huge urge to kill, isn't a zombie outbreak in itself too easy of a solution to his problem and maybe even a distraction from the tension you could have?

I haven't read it yet, maybe it all comes together in the script, but based on the presentation, I have a strange feeling that all of this just isn't adding up. The premise does sounds glorious without the zombies, though. Is it just me?


Hey Marko – thanks for the logline analysis. Logline are very important so this is all good stuff. You are right, the zombie aspect is secondary to the story but their relevance does become important in the third act. If you do get round to reading the script you will realise nothing is quite what it seems. ;-)  
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, June 14th, 2015, 11:10am; Reply: 10


Quoted from Max
Sup Mark,

Thought I'd chime in and give you a 10 PAGE feedback.  Some of the stuff will be nitpicky but take it how you want to take it.



Thanks for the feedback Max. I wrote this over 6 Saturday afternoons (as I have very little time to write I'm sorry to say) and never looked back just to get it on paper. It is very much a vomit draft so your comments are very useful as they will help me tidy it up for the first proper draft. So thank you! I will answer some specific points though.  


Quoted from Max

This is a confusing passage.  From what I can gather, Noah and Larry are both in Noah's mind, watching Noah in the past as he kills his brother.

Is that right? Or is Larry watching Noah's past actions by himself? If that's the case, why is there no V.O? Or is the dialogue being spoken while he's murdering his brother? SUPER-CONFUSING, and I'm sure there's a better way to format this.

If Noah is watching a younger version of himself, the younger version should be CAPPED as a new character IMO.

You ever seen a TV show or movie where a character is telling another character about something and we, the audience, see the memory as it happened? Of course you have, but sometimes both characters are visually represented, which I've always thought was cool. Rather than just have Larry and Noah's conversation as a VO, I have them visually present in the scene interacting with it. This is what I was attempting to do so anyway, if you know a way to make that clearer then let me know. I did try to find a script which had a similar scene in it but couldn't locate one.


Quoted from Max

I'm not really feeling this Mark, sorry.  The potential is there for a great story but it's so bloody confusing, I didn't know where to start.


No problem, different strokes for different folks as they say. It can be very hard to visualise something that isn't straightforward and is a bit different from the norm. I think maybe that's why a lot of movies in Hollywood are pretty much the same! I'm attempting to do something quite different and very cheap, which isn't easy, but hopefully a few more re-writes of the script may help.

-Mark
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, June 14th, 2015, 11:16am; Reply: 11


Quoted from Busy Little Bee
Hey, Mark, yeah that logline makes for an interesting read. I think the hook works well for the genre. You have some good support beams as far as story structure/character arc. A very flawed character, who some may argue has an unrealistic character arc, however, I'd say you'd just have a hell of challenge convincing us that this man, a potential serial killer would save lives for sake of saving lives.

I'm about 25 pages... not too sure how I feel about Noah's technique about how he goes about his psycho AA meetings, but what do I know about it, haha. Uh, nugget to point out is the exposition with the two females, Aileen and Mary. The exposition is just that, exposition. Maybe try to disguise with a disagreement about what's happening and exposition comes out of it.

I'm interested to see what the next turn will be and how, this character, Larry.

BLB


Hello there Busy Little Bee.

Thanks for the feedback so far. Noah's technique and the unique 12 Step program for serial killers is indeed extreme and unusual. If you managed to read the rest you'll see just how much! Just as a little taster, the founding father of Psychotics Anonymous is Jack The Ripper.

As for how realistic this is, I doubt such an organisation could exist but who knows, only Psychopaths would truly understand how Psychopaths think but I did base it off some latest research, which suggest Psychotics have the ability to turn their empathy on and off at will. This is where the Killswitch idea came from.

-Mark
Posted by: Max, June 14th, 2015, 11:26am; Reply: 12
So basically, they're talking between themselves while watching this memory?


Quoted Text
INT. BATHROOM - DAY [FLASHBACK]

YOUNGER NOAH kneels beside the bathtub, holding his NINE YEAR OLD BROTHER beneath the surface of the water.

Noah and Larry stand a few feet away.  They calmly observe as the horror unfolds before their eyes.


Quick re-write there.

We have CAPPED the younger version of Noah, because it's a new character.

Noah (present day) and Larry are in the scene.

The dialogue is more than enough to explain that he's watching a younger version of himself, so nobody is going to think the memory happened as it is... with FOUR PEOPLE in the room.

I'd set the scene up, as if they were standing behind the glass of an interrogation room, and through the glass, YOUNGER NOAH drowning his brother.

That way you can take them out of the scene, but still have them there... and the device would be effective IMO.




Posted by: MarkRenshaw, June 14th, 2015, 2:20pm; Reply: 13

Quoted from Max
So basically, they're talking between themselves while watching this memory?



Quick re-write there.

We have CAPPED the younger version of Noah, because it's a new character.

Noah (present day) and Larry are in the scene.

The dialogue is more than enough to explain that he's watching a younger version of himself, so nobody is going to think the memory happened as it is... with FOUR PEOPLE in the room.

I'd set the scene up, as if they were standing behind the glass of an interrogation room, and through the glass, YOUNGER NOAH drowning his brother.

That way you can take them out of the scene, but still have them there... and the device would be effective IMO.



Yes! Well, almost. It's not a younger version of Noah we are seeing at this point. We see Noah as he is now. He's reliving the memory as he tells the story to Larry. Larry is there as well just so he's not talking to thin air. I think it would be confusing to have a younger version of Noah. This is why I have Noah specifically say what he says in this scene.

I do this again a bit later on with Larry and again we see Larry as he is now but reliving a memory as he describes it to Noah. Visually I think this would really work. But of course, that's ultimately up to the reader to decide.  


Posted by: Max, June 14th, 2015, 2:44pm; Reply: 14
It's incredibly tricky to write and that's the problem.  You might have to break a few of the considered rules here and there.

I would transition into the FLASHBACK with Noah closing his eyes, so...


Quoted Text


Noah closes his eyes --

INT. BATHROOM - DAY [FLASHBACK]

Noah stands alongside Larry.  Both of them have their eyes closed.

They open their eyes together, as if both of them are synchronized.

A memory becomes reality as Noah's mind conjures up a past event --

ect.


That's a good way of doing it, IMO.

If he's watching a past event, words like "conjure" and "project" ect. would help describe the nature of said visual and event.

Alternatively just write...


Quoted Text
Noah and Larry observe a PAST VERSION OF NOAH as he kneels beside the bathtub, holding a NINE YEAR OLD BOY beneath the water.


I'm sure somebody will come in here and bullshit the advice I'm giving anyway.

That's clear, and if the other version of Noah did decide to speak in the scene, PAST NOAH can be the character title.

Scenes like these ain't built in a day so perhaps the VOMIT method wasn't a good choice here.  This is the type of stuff that needs to be re-written over, and over again.
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, June 15th, 2015, 2:22am; Reply: 15
Some great tips there Max - thanks for the help. I'm going to research a load of scripts and try to find instance were such a scene is used and gather some more ideas.

The  vomit method was a necessity for me. I was putting off writing a feature and coming up with any excuse not to do so. In the end a friend just challenged me to write a feature in a month and I accepted. I’m glad I did as A – I may never have begun and B – Even if I did I could have easily spent a year of my life writing this only to discover it’s shit. A vomit draft at least is enough to test the waters, which I have in several ways and not just on this forum. The feedback will help me decide if I should carry on with this script or move onto something else.
Posted by: DanC, June 15th, 2015, 7:06am; Reply: 16
It's odd, I didn't have an issue with that at all.  

I can see why some would find that confusing.  I do agree that some rules would have to be broken.  I'm trying to think of a TV show that had a flashback and older versions talking about younger action stuff.

The Wonder Years immediately comes to mind.

I hope you do stick with it.  I found the story to be very interesting.

If I was you, I'd ask the regulars on here to read it.  See what they think.  You have enough good credit on here, right?
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, June 15th, 2015, 7:50am; Reply: 17

Quoted from DanC
It's odd, I didn't have an issue with that at all.  

I can see why some would find that confusing.  I do agree that some rules would have to be broken.  I'm trying to think of a TV show that had a flashback and older versions talking about younger action stuff.

The Wonder Years immediately comes to mind.

I hope you do stick with it.  I found the story to be very interesting.

If I was you, I'd ask the regulars on here to read it.  See what they think.  You have enough good credit on here, right?


I’ve had about 10 people read it so far and Max is the first one to be confused by the flashbacks but that doesn’t mean I think his points are not valid, any way to make the scene read better is positive. It’s all good feedback. :-)

Thanks for your words of encouragement Dan. I suppose I could ask people direct if they would read it but that’s not me. If people want to read and provide feedback, excellent. If they don’t want to I understand. I struggle to get time to review even shorts, taking on a feature is a bigger commitment.

Of course, anyone who doesn’t volunteer will be force-fed sprouts and then have to extract/disarm a nuclear bomb from their pancreas while bungee jumping using their intestines, into an erupting volcano...on Mars...while they has explosive diarrhoea…from the sprouts. So yeah, it’s up to you guys.

Posted by: DanC, June 15th, 2015, 8:48am; Reply: 18

Quoted from MarkRenshaw


I’ve had about 10 people read it so far and Max is the first one to be confused by the flashbacks but that doesn’t mean I think his points are not valid, any way to make the scene read better is positive. It’s all good feedback. :-)

Thanks for your words of encouragement Dan. I suppose I could ask people direct if they would read it but that’s not me. If people want to read and provide feedback, excellent. If they don’t want to I understand. I struggle to get time to review even shorts, taking on a feature is a bigger commitment.

Of course, anyone who doesn’t volunteer will be force-fed sprouts and then have to extract/disarm a nuclear bomb from their pancreas while bungee jumping using their intestines, into an erupting volcano...on Mars...while they has explosive diarrhoea…from the sprouts. So yeah, it’s up to you guys.




Wow, that sounds like the plot to Human Centipede 3.  And that was one of the worse movies, granted, I have not seen it, nor the first 2, but, from what I have read, oh my...

The only thing I think you do wrong is that if you don't advertise, people don't know.  I know there are like 8 (possibly more) really awesome people here that do a lot of reading, but, if they don't know to look, they can't help.

You are extremely humble.  I guess I'm more aggressive.  I will read 4 things from each person and then ask them if they have time.  If not, that's fine and people respect that.  I don't read stuff hoping to get a read back.  I read stuff hoping to learn.

And I've learned so much since I joined 3 months ago.  So, I guess my point, is that the regulars on here seem to be some sort of oddball fun extended family.  I won't go on to name names, but, a lot of the people on here are really awesome.  

I have a lot of respect for people who are willing to help others, even if that means that your screenplay might knock theirs out.  That is what true karma is about.  And I honestly hope every single person on here has a lot of success.  We've all got good attitudes and deserve the good luck.

Stepping off the soap box now...
Posted by: Max, June 15th, 2015, 9:23am; Reply: 19
People can always challenge me on the points I make btw.

If somebody wants to come along and dispute something I said in my original 10 page feedback, feel free.

The more back and forth we get, the more it helps anyway.

As long as it doesn't descend into a dick-measuring contest, it's okay.
Posted by: DanC, June 15th, 2015, 9:30am; Reply: 20

Quoted from Max


As long as it doesn't descend into a dick-measuring contest, it's okay.


Max Max Max
Are you trying to tell us that you are hung like a fly?  It's okay bud.  You can still have kids, if you adopt :)

I agree btw, that the conversations should stay PG 13.  There is no reason to get personal or offense.  Even if you were the ONLY one who had issues ;)

Seriously, I can see why anyone could be confused at that spot.  I guess I have seen that on TV enough times to be able to "see" the vision Mark had, so, it was easy for me, but, I can see if a person hadn't seen anything like that before hand, it'd be very confusing.

That's why I said that Mark should break a few rules and really describe what he sees from all the people involved in the flashback.  Perhaps he should explain it like a video is being shown on a closed circuit TV of his younger self.  That might make it clear enough.

Dan
Posted by: DS, June 15th, 2015, 11:22am; Reply: 21
Dan, where do I get some of that optimism of yours?  Your posts always ooze of it, motivating stuff!

Mark,

I read up until the arrival of the two female characters (page 20) and the script felt low-brow and aggressively over the top in a way that just didn't sit with me. I'm thinking of: Noah's character's huge comic exaggeration, cake in the face, the tied up girl with the rape jokes, Larry being assaulted and cut, the poop gag with Madison.

This could just be my personal bias, but it's disappointing that the great premise you have, which could make for a stand-out smart dark comedy, is shooting for a low-brow flick. Although, if that was the tone you were shooting for, no harm. Either way, toning those 20 pages down would be a good idea imo.

The dialogue also felt expository and too convenient. All those questions and answers in a row seemed unnatural. I'd recommend having the conversation go the way it wasn't intended to for both characters more, particularly for Noah. Maybe you could also make this Larry's first meeting with Noah, for the sake of the information dump coming through better.

You mentioned that it was a vomit draft. Writing-wise, it had that feeling to it in quite a few places. I'm sure you'll get around to beefing it up and will probably get other and better comments about the writing itself. Max already brought out a lot of good ones. A thought on the character descriptions, still:

Larry and Noah have some interesting character descriptions, I think you were going for a bit of an unique vibe with them. I thought Noah's was particularly clever, with Larry's, the peeking behind the curtain half seemed exaggerated and weird. I reckon a simpler, more straight-forward wording could work better.

On the contrary to the interesting character descriptions, the women that pop up on page 20 only have the stereotypical "pretty" character descriptions. Would that pass the Bechdel test? ;D I reckon these descriptions could be a lot better, surely the characters are there for more than just being eye candy.

Overall, this just didn't work for me. Sorry, mate. Maybe you'll still find something useful in this post nonetheless. Gl.
Posted by: DanC, June 15th, 2015, 11:41am; Reply: 22

Quoted from DS
Dan, where do I get some of that optimism of yours?  Your posts always ooze of it, motivating stuff!



Overall, this just didn't work for me. Sorry, mate. Maybe you'll still find something useful in this post nonetheless. Gl.


Hi DS
My secret, lots of medication bud.  Lots of meds.  I have 9 herniated discs and a crushed spinal cord with 3 cysts in my spinal canal mixed in for good measure, in case I wasn't in enough pain from the first 2 things....

Now, more seriously, my optimism I guess stems from the fact that almost everyone I have encountered on here has been really nice.  Some like Pia have a nice resume already.  Others like Dustin, Mark, Anthony, Gary, Libby etc have either optioned stuff or have had success with contests.  So, it's not a bunch of doofuses playing blind lead the blind into oblivion.

Obviously, I have no idea who will make it and who won't, but, I see talent.  And I say to myself, why not my friends on here, or me?  There are hundreds of others where we are that are as good, if not better, doing the same thing.  All we can do is network and keep helping.

The way I see it, every screenplay helps me learn when I read it and break it down.  Why does this work, oh, this is interesting how the plot was set up.  Take Bill Sarre's "The Elevator Most Belonging to Alice"  in one week, yes, ONE week for the OWC crafted a brilliant story of fantasy and horror, and the little clues were sprinkled in for the observant reader.  IMO, that's top level writing and even the pros I doubt could do much better.  

Sure, any screenplay can be made better, well, save for the Exorcist, that's pretty much perfection, but, I see talent and if people believe in themselves and persevere then they might get lucky with the writing.  

Somebody will sell a screenplay for lots of cash this year.  It happens every year.  Why NOT here?

Dan
Posted by: DS, June 15th, 2015, 12:28pm; Reply: 23

Quoted from DanC


Hi DS
My secret, lots of medication bud.  Lots of meds.  I have 9 herniated discs and a crushed spinal cord with 3 cysts in my spinal canal mixed in for good measure, in case I wasn't in enough pain from the first 2 things....

Now, more seriously, my optimism I guess stems from the fact that almost everyone I have encountered on here has been really nice.  Some like Pia have a nice resume already.  Others like Dustin, Mark, Anthony, Gary, Libby etc have either optioned stuff or have had success with contests.  So, it's not a bunch of doofuses playing blind lead the blind into oblivion.

Obviously, I have no idea who will make it and who won't, but, I see talent.  And I say to myself, why not my friends on here, or me?  There are hundreds of others where we are that are as good, if not better, doing the same thing.  All we can do is network and keep helping.

The way I see it, every screenplay helps me learn when I read it and break it down.  Why does this work, oh, this is interesting how the plot was set up.  Take Bill Sarre's "The Elevator Most Belonging to Alice"  in one week, yes, ONE week for the OWC crafted a brilliant story of fantasy and horror, and the little clues were sprinkled in for the observant reader.  IMO, that's top level writing and even the pros I doubt could do much better.  

Sure, any screenplay can be made better, well, save for the Exorcist, that's pretty much perfection, but, I see talent and if people believe in themselves and persevere then they might get lucky with the writing.  

Somebody will sell a screenplay for lots of cash this year.  It happens every year.  Why NOT here?

Dan


Sorry to hear about the back, I wish you all the best. Hear hear on the rest, I've learned a lot from here as well, tis' a nice forum with lots of talented people.
Posted by: PrussianMosby, June 27th, 2015, 5:23am; Reply: 24
Mark,

eventually I'm through.

There's not much to say about the script from my side still I try to give some input about where I see your stuff here and how to go on from my pov. What stood out here is your craft is skillful; you're just a good screenwriter. Fact.

Interesting you took the challenge to write your first feature under those circumstances.

It's good, it was fun.

Though, if you want me to watch that film, impossible, you simply can't reach me without the fact I know you from this place. It's just a no/low budget fun that I don't get on my screen.
For that you would have to write at least quality like "Rope" or better "12 Angry Men" or "Rear Window" as a one location script- Films of this weight would be carried their way to me by feuilleton and critics.

What do I want to say? It's complete. It's good. You can pitch it to all those indie-companies, which is great, because you will get reads 100%. It's not the almost impossible route of reaching big companies.  So, my advice: polish some things, send it out like crazy, and go on. Don't invest more time in a piece that, except your love toward movies of course, could bring you rarely 5 numbers in. They simply can't expect more. It's good for what it is.

Your screenwriting is very good IMO
The plot is good.
The single plotting is good.
The dialogue seem to me as a big strength of you, and I'm usually not a fan of dialogue heavy stuff
Humor is good.
Splatter is good.
Horror was okay, interesting visuals.
Concept is very interesting for an indie-production. Exactly the stuff they do, a bit absurd, a bit sub-genre, switching tone.

Okay, I didn't have a lot to note here:

All flashbacks in the first act are executed wrong. The idea with the passenger-style is good. I was just confused how you executed everything. Sometimes they both travelled – then it seems the passenger speaks in the skin of the original-scene-character. You do some experiments there and I think to understand how you mean it and like it, still write that 100% clear. Let us distinguish them better from each other.

I think you should work that out on your own. If you ask me for help, I probably tell you every point I dislike and what confuses.

Another big point: If Noah tells Larry, he himself killed 20+x people, why does Larry not once questions Noah's ability as being a therapist??

The flashbacks are the only execution problem in first act, the above is the only thing that felt wrong in case of story there.

I've been disappointed you've killed Noah and Homn, in fact, it is very good with regard how everything continued ;-) (both great charscters)

20-25 wow it's getting sweet. Very strong. That was the moment which dragged me in finally.

You're a bit talky in case of dialogue. A low budget could easily run 70 min only. There's a lot of "Fuck, now tell me what's going on?" again and again in the script. You can delete a lot of those empty phrases IMO – things will deliver better, your script would profit.

P 58/59 Aileen seems to disappear from your writing. You need to confirm earlier she's still in the picture. P 60 is too late in case of clarity. Don't forget, you work with a lot of mystery and dreams and so on.

The monologue is hard and smart. I go with it. Concerning the whole reveal and resolution, I like. You act like a plotting machine in this chamber of madness.

The ending is weak. The last 2-3 pages could result in a bigger punch. The way it is, we leave Larry when he's almost going to kill her, only to cut to a last scene that reveals he did not. He's now a sponsor himself. You force the happy-end the wrong way imo. I think I don't like how you edited here and just cut to while we thought he really kills her. So what did happen you know? Why did he stop at your script's final plot. Just search something else to end it if you want.


Well, as said, strong screenwriting. A lot to like here, lots of fun. My advice: Get rid of typos, polish, and send it out to SEVERAL indie-companies. They simply cannot expect a better screenplay with regards to low production costs and so on. If they buy and like it, sure, you can work on it again. Otherwise, don't worry, the plot has quality, timing, rhythm. I don't know what to make better here anyway...

Try to work on the next feature play as soon as possible if you like to. Always good to have a second one I guess. You proofed to know how it's done with this one.

It's complete for what it is.

Cheers.
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, June 30th, 2015, 10:07am; Reply: 25
Wow – thank you very much for reading all of the script and for writing the review. I had kind of given up on this but whenever someone does read it all, like you and Dan have, sure there are issues and it needs work (which I totally agree with) but people can see lots of potential, which is encouraging.

Sure I’ve written myself into a corner setting it all in one room but I also believe this gives me ‘room’ to develop. If someone is interested in producing this there’s no reason why it can’t go beyond one room or the story change. There doesn’t need to be a zombie aspect for example. I set it in one room to challenge myself and to make it as cheap to produce as possible. The current estimate is this will cost less than 50k to produce as it is.

Your points are very valid. I think I will give it a polish, post it on Inktip and send it out to a load of Indy companies in the hopes that someone bites.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read/review this, it is appreciated.

-Mark
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