Many moons ago dead by dawn made a thread about rebooting script club. They happened here before my time, but basically, a script club is a book club... with a script instead of a book. I don't think more explanation is needed. Anyway, that attempt died down due to a lack of interest and I was thinking a few days ago that it's worth giving it another try.

Considering the OWC just happened, it might be a bit early to have another big event, but we'd be looking at a decent gap until it started anyway. Seeing who would be interested along with finding a script to discuss will probably take over a week and everyone would have to have at least a week to read and think the script through before the discussion started.

To specify, the script would either be a feature or a pilot. It would be great if we could find a script written by someone from SS as there'd be a lot of useful feedback and food for thought for the writer, but we could always discuss a newer pro script, too.

So, what do you all think?

Someone asked me about the Script Club just last week. I think it's a great idea and I would try to participate best I can.  

Personally I prefer to read pro script, but I can definitely see the benefit to the writer of having a feature by an SS member reviewed.

I've never done one. I would be interested if a TV pilot was done, though, either one that's already been filmed or one that has been optioned. I don't have much interest in discussing the formatting or the writing...if the script was optioned then the writing was not a barrier to its success. I am, however, interested in discussing how the story was structured, what scenes worked and why, how the characters were set up. Actually I really would like to see what other writers here say on that stuff: what captures and holds their interest in the story.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Someone asked me about the Script Club just last week. I think it's a great idea and I would try to participate best I can.   Personally I prefer to read pro script, but I can definitely see the benefit to the writer of having a feature by an SS member reviewed.

Great. :)

Quoted from JSimon I don't have much interest in discussing the formatting or the writing...if the script was optioned then the writing was not a barrier to its success. I am, however, interested in discussing how the story was structured, what scenes worked and why, how the characters were set up. Actually I really would like to see what other writers here say on that stuff: what captures and holds their interest in the story.

I'm with you, the focus should be on the content. Discussing the writing style has its merits too, we should just be careful it doesn't derail the thread from the important stuff. I think it could work as a final "extra" topic, while delving into formatting or writing would be barred up until we're done with everything else.

I don't think we've done a TV pilot before. That might be a good thing to try since so many cable and online outlets are producing more and more of them and everyone seems to want to jump on the bandwagon. I'm not, but I'm always interested in seeing what works and what doesn't.

I think your talents are very well suited to TV writing. I'll explain when we talk.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nic_Pizzolatto
True Detective

The pilot is readily available too.

Quoted from JSimon I think your talents are very well suited to TV writing. I'll explain when we talk.

Are you talking to me? If so, I'm just not interested in TV shows. I like shorts. My first love.  ;)

Libby, True Detective was amazing! Fell for Mathew Whatshisname hard even though he looked like shit. Didn't care for the last episode, but up until then, I was def onboard. Oh yeah, I've always had a bizarre crush on Woody as well...ugh, maybe I'm just too easy...  ;D

I know! I love Matthew Whatshisname  ;D as well, and Woody. There's some terrific dark stuff in this series and it's the atmospherics that contribute a lot to this because in reality the story is pretty straight forward - it's all about character and dialogue but the location is character as well. I'd love to be able to write like he does.

Speaking of which, at one point Pizzolatto was accused of plagiarism with regard to some of Rustin Cohle's long diatribe dialogue pieces - refuted of course.

Can't wait for Series 2 which starts at the end of the month.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/07/true-detective-season-2-trailer_n_7531814.html

Yes, Pia, I know you like shorts, and memorable scenes...which is the reason behind my comment.

Bump. My bad for somewhat forgetting about this thread, but there hasn't been a lot of interest. We're one down now with JSimon as well.

Anyone else interested? :)

I'd be up for this, do we break down the format/writing ect?

Talking back and forth about a script, all the elements of it, would be very useful to me indeed.

Quoted from Max I'd be up for this, do we break down the format/writing ect? Talking back and forth about a script, all the elements of it, would be very useful to me indeed.

Yes, but someone has to sort of be in charge or the conversation gets out of control. I thought DS or DanC were interested in running one. It's been a long time since we did one.

I personally do not have the time to run one, but I'd do my best to participate.

As mentioned earlier, we've never done a TV pilot before and that seems to be were the action is these days.  :)

Out of control, as in off-topic? Or people bickering?

No bickering, just discussions wandering and not staying on topic.  :)

It would be best to do this with unproduced works IMO.

Select a feature from one of the sections and discuss it at length.  It would basically shift everyone's feedback into one place.

We have threads for the features uploaded but lets face it, feedback is very scattered and almost non-existent for some of them.

Quoted from DS Bump. My bad for somewhat forgetting about this thread, but there hasn't been a lot of interest. We're one down now with JSimon as well. Anyone else interested? :)

He might still be interested - user name no longer says 'Guest' anymore - just no posts, as yet.

Quoted from Max I'd be up for this, do we break down the format/writing ect? Talking back and forth about a script, all the elements of it, would be very useful to me indeed.

Great to have you on board! As I mentioned above, I personally think longer discussion on writing style should be the final topic, so we don't risk derailing the thread from the content (story, characters, scenes etc.).  That's just my stance, though.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I thought DS or DanC were interested in running one.

I can run it if we get enough people, yeah. Is DanC interested in participating as well? Haven't seen or heard anything from him in regards to it, but I suppose so, since you brought up his name?

Quoted from LC He might still be interested - user name no longer says 'Guest' anymore - just no posts, as yet.

Maybe, but I wouldn't put any money on it. Perhaps he just didn't want the "Guest user" tag?  JSimon, if you're seeing this, let us know if you're still around and up for it.

Are you in, by the way, LC? :)

Quoted from Max It would be best to do this with unproduced works IMO. Select a feature from one of the sections and discuss it at length.  It would basically shift everyone's feedback into one place. We have threads for the features uploaded but lets face it, feedback is very scattered and almost non-existent for some of them.

Most of those threads are empty because the writer hasn't shown up. Reading a recent pro script is useful to us so we can see what is currently working. If we don't do that, I think we should at the least select a script of a SS member who has contributed to the site and who is around to benefit from the discussion.

Your last point convinced me good sir, should be a pro script or a script of somebody who is active.

Hey, I don't want to interfere in the debate here but if you would be interested in analyzing a sold script at "first draft"–status, not a shooting draft, a colored draft or anything else in late development hell, I'd participate as well.

Perhaps, if you like to, check out the following instruction and you might realize what scripts I mean more precisely:

1. http://www.simplyscripts.com/full_movie.html  
^this link brings you to all produced feature scripts on ss mainpage
2. Then enter into keyboard: CTRL + F
3. Feed into the search field:  first draft
4. The search function will highlight more than 100 first draft features in yellow.

I can post a huge selection of those if you want me to.

Alex

Quoted from PrussianMosby Hey, I don't want to interfere in the debate here but if you would be interested in analyzing a sold script at "first draft"status, not a shooting draft, a colored draft or anything else in late development hell, I'd participate as well. Perhaps, if you like to, check out the following instruction and you might realize what scripts I mean more precisely: 1. http://www.simplyscripts.com/full_movie.html   ^this link brings you to all produced feature scripts on ss mainpage 2. Then enter into keyboard: CTRL + F 3. Feed into the search field:  first draft 4. The search function will highlight more than 100 first draft features in yellow. I can post a huge selection of those if you want me to. Alex

Sounds good! We'll see what we can find, but I think the newer the better. If you can throw out some suggestions, that's great.

We might do a TV pilot as well, here's an up to date link to a bunch of them: https://sites.google.com/site/tvwriting/

So, I think we currently have:

Me
Angry Bear
Max
PrussianMosby

And maybe (?)

LC - Posted, but didn't say anything about participating.
DanC - Name brought up on thread.

I reckon we'd have enough if we got up to around 8 people. Thoughts?

And if anyone else wants to participate or has a good script to discuss, pro or by a SS regular, leave a post!

Dan contacted me via pm. He was interested, but didn't feel he was ready to run it. He would probably be onboard reviewing and discussing a script though. My guess anyway.

IMHO, there's not much point in discussing old scripts that were turned into movies. Not because the scripts were not good, but writing specs has changed a LOT in just the last few years as far as style and everything else goes. Although I love older films myself, the fact that the internet and instant viewing of whatever you want has changed how stories are told. They have to grab you right away and keep your interest from then on. There isn't much time for slow builds and the like or people will reach for their remotes. Sadly, the distributors are the ones we have to please too. Also, there are so many TV shows that are really really great now. Not soap operas and the like, but really great hard hitting shows. The interest in writing TV shows has increased tremendously as have the production companies interest in producing them. IMO, to study trending styles and spec writing, we would do better to discuss a current TV pilot or recently sold spec.  :)

I'd like to participate, count me in.

What does running it entail? I'd be up for it, maybe.

Count me in as well but please pretty please someone PM me about this when you start as there's a huge chance I'll miss it.
I'll try not to but seems like I'm missing everything interesting lately. Partly because I'm 10 hours away from the US. And then, lately I became too social - and now that I'm social I can't turn back.

Quoted from khamanna ... And then, lately I became too social - and now that I'm social I can't turn back.

Party hard, Kham!  ;D

Quoted from DS And hey, LC, stop dodging... or not seeing the "Are you in?" question!

Sorry, DS. Was tossing it up, but I've got a bit too much on, so that'd be a 'no' this time around. I hope you do True Detective, still that was my choice and I'm not in so you can pretty much do what you want, can't you. Speaking of, Fen is looking very pretty lately.  ;D Anyway, carry on...

Oh, forgot to say: If you do want the Pilot Eps of True Detective just give me a shout. I'm happy to pass them on.

And Fen, just a bit of of joviality - you're masculinity is still intact.

Quoted from LC Sorry, DS. Was tossing it up, but I've got a bit too much on, so that'd be a 'no' this time around. I hope you do True Detective, still that was my choice and I'm not in so you can pretty much do what you want, can't you. Speaking of, Fen is looking very pretty lately.  ;D Anyway, carry on...

Paige from WWE.

I'm probably the only hardcore wrestling fan on here.  I even got tickets for a live show, this November ;D

Quoted from LC Sorry, DS. Was tossing it up, but I've got a bit too much on, so that'd be a 'no' this time around. Oh, forgot to say: If you do want the Pilot Eps of True Detective just give me a shout. I'm happy to pass them on.

Alright. Next time around then, perhaps. ;)

Thanks for the offer, found a link myself too earlier:

http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueDetective/comments/21ej8w/true_detective_ep_1_and_2_screenplays/

IMO, for a script club discussion, the popularity of True Detective might play against it. A lot of us will have most likely seen it or know a fair amount about it and what happens next purely because of how much it's mentioned everywhere. Although it is a good recommendation.

Okay, we currently have:

Me
Angry Bear
Max
PrussianMosby
c m hall
Khamanna

It's possible that more people will jump in once we settle on a script and officially get things started, too. Anyone can jump in at any time of course.

I suppose it's time to start thinking of choosing the script. I think we've all agreed that the newer the script is the better.

We need to decide on whether we'll do a pilot or a feature.

Does anyone here have a script theirselves or know of a good script from a SS regular that would make for good discussion? Which would get the writer a ton of feedback.

or

Can anyone recommend a recent pro script that they believe would be good to discuss?



---

LC has thrown in True detective (pilot):

In 2012, Louisiana State Police Detectives Rust Cohle and Martin Hart are brought in to revisit a homicide case they worked in 1995. As the inquiry unfolds in present day through separate interrogations, the two former detectives narrate the story of their investigation, reopening unhealed wounds, and drawing into question their supposed solving of a bizarre ritualistic murder in 1995. The timelines braid and converge in 2012 as each man is pulled back into a world they believed they'd left behind. In learning about each other and their killer, it becomes clear that darkness lives on both sides of the law.

What quickly comes to my mind, I recall thinking "Echo" was pretty damn good from last year's blacklist.

It's probably worth taking a look at the 2013/2014 and 2014/2015 section of pilots here and SimplyScripts and where ever else for either a pilot or a feature.

Lets throw around some ideas and see what everyone would be up for?

Thanks, DS, I'll be waiting for it.

LC - yeah)) As a matter of fact I opened this thread because I saw the word "club"!

You got any of your scripts on here Kham?

And btw folks, y'all broke the first rule of Script Club.

Okay, we agree to look on a recent work, right???


As I see the discussion here, the next questions are Produced or Unproduced?

and

Series or Feature???




Personally, I prefer to analyze a script the industry invested in. Because it includes the question WHY did they and so on...

On the ss movie main page there's a first draft of Edge Of Tomorrow from 2010 called ALL YOU NEED IS KILL
And an unspecified draft from 2008 of Interstellar.

As I mentioned, I'd be really interested what the movies build up on from the writer's perspective at an early stage.

I don't watch series, so I don't know much about those DS had linked to but would be interesting to learn the format though.

True Detective was mentioned more than once now, so perhaps this one??

Isn't there a new hype about a series called "Empire" too?

Well, that's my input for now.

I have ALL YOU NEED IS KILL saved on my laptop.  That shit has an explosive start, some people will hate it though because there's lots of capitals.

It really comes off the page tho, exciting stuff.

I took a closer look at the pilots between 2013-2015. Some extra suggestions from a few that grabbed my interest:

Tyrant

Barry Al-Fayeed is a California pediatrician who also happens to be the second son of a Middle Eastern dictator. Barry reluctantly agrees to return home with his American family for his nephew's wedding. Events thrust him into the complex and turbulent growing pains of a nation straining to break free from dictatorial rule.

Bloodline

A family of adult siblings find that their past secrets and scars are revealed when their black sheep of a brother returns home.

Hand of God

A morally-corrupt judge suffers a breakdown and believes God is compelling him onto a path of vigilante justice.

The Knick

A look at the professional and personal lives of the staff at New York's Knickerbocker Hospital during the early part of the twentieth century. (is a surgical drama)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd say it's time to start getting things going instead of just speculation.

We should have at least chosen on a script to discuss by Sunday. Preferably by Sunday morning GMT-wise, because I might go out of town for a few days on Sunday and I'm not sure whether I'll have access to the internet.

No one's offered any scripts by a SS regular so far. If we're going to choose between a recent pro feature or a recent pro pilot, my opinion is that we should go for a pilot. There's a lot to learn from discussing them. Also discussion about them in a screenwriting sense isn't as common as for features. My vote is 100% for a pilot. I'll make up my mind on which one in a bit.


Read the thread over again and throw in your final vote on whatever you'd like to see discussed after this post. No restrictions on what you can and cannot vote for, but if we don't have a good majority vote by Sunday, I'll make the decision myself and you can all throw me off a cliff because of it afterwards.

Quoted from Max You got any of your scripts on here Kham? And btw folks, y'all broke the first rule of Script Club.

Yeah, I have quite a few shorts here and a few features as well but nothing I need to look at at the moment - just saying) not that you asked or anything, I know))

What's the first rule of Script Club?

DS, I'd choose Bloodline out of four. Where are you looking for them, blacklist?

Quoted from khamanna What's the first rule of Script Club?

You do not talk about Fight Script Club. ;)

Quoted from khamanna DS, I'd choose Bloodline out of four. Where are you looking for them, blacklist?

Kham,

You don't need to choose one of the four, you can choose from any that have been brought up on the thread, by anyone or vote for something that hasn't yet been brought out! Those four are just some ideas I was throwing out. I'll seperate them with a line in my post above to make it more clear.

Also, the ones I brought out are all recently produced and aired pilots. The scripts are taken from the 13-14 and 14-15 sections from here.

Quoted from DS I'll seperate them with a line in my post above to make it more clear.

Oh no you won't. You'll separate them. Arsy point I know. But it a writing type site. And I'm a bit of an arse. Actually I'm a full roundy one.

No shirts, no shoes. Not a problem around here.

Hang on, shurely you have to have to talk about Script Club. At least via strokes on keys? I can just think about it. But I've other things on my mind. Like how I'll find my car. As I've forgotten where I left it. Again.

R

No rendevous, we can't talk or type about Script Club.

Script Club is just a thread with no posts, haven't you heard?

I just found out about this.  Thanks DS.  I'll join in.

I wish we'd do something that I have seen or enjoy.  If this is a democratic process, perhaps we can all pick and choose it, step by step.

I do agree it should be something current, within the last few years.

For movie and TV series ( can we do both, one after the other?) should, IMO both be movies we have all heard of, that are available to be seen (screenplay wise).

For genre, I really enjoy good horror, fantasy, sci-fi, fiction, comedy, action.  I am not into war, history, drama related to those (like that TV show about the woman that gets trapped in that war country).  

What are some other favs for genres out there?  And which would you rather tackle first, movie or series?  The series show would be shorter for everyone to read, so, that might make it more accepted since I know quite a few (like me) are working on the 250 contest and the 50 shorts for Impact.  A TV series would be either 25(ish) pages for a 30 min series, or 45(ish) pages for a 60 min.

Oh Max, I grew up with wrestling, so, for years, I watched both NWA morph into WCW, WWF morph into WWE, ECW etc.  Most of the ones I grew up with are long retired.  Best character was Roddy Piper IMO.


Back to series, I have liked how Arrow set up itself with the flashback and other ways.  I don't know if anyone else likes arrow, or if the script is available.  Or are we doing True Detective?  I might be dumb, but, I could never guess those "who done it" shows, hell, true story, I couldn't even guess the scooby-doo ones when I was a kid...  So, I'm afraid I might be too "dumb" to get the clues for a detective show...

Dan

Quoted from rendevous Oh no you won't. You'll separate them. Arsy point I know. But it a writing type site. And I'm a bit of an arse. Actually I'm a full roundy one. No shirts, no shoes. Not a problem around here. Hang on, shurely you have to have to talk about Script Club. At least via strokes on keys? I can just think about it. But I've other things on my mind. Like how I'll find my car. As I've forgotten where I left it. Again. R

Car? I thought you just saddled up your goat when you needed to frolic through the fields.

But yes, shurely so, separate is the correct spelling.

Now, any chance I could interest you in taking part of Script Club, Ren? :)

Quoted from DanC I just found out about this.  Thanks DS.  I'll join in... ...  I don't know if anyone else likes arrow, or if the script is available ...

Welcome aboard, Dan! Take a read through the thread to catch up, we are currently voting for what we will be reading.

The arrow script is available online. Link here


------

Speaking of voting, here is the final information on it and I will also edit the first post with it.

Updated rules and information:

We will be giving anyone participating in Script Club a chance to vote for what script they'd like to read, as long as it fits the parameters below:

The voting will end Sunday night 23:59, US Eastern time (SimplyScripts board time). Click here for a countdown.

* You can vote for any recent feature or pilot by posting your choice on this thread. The newer the better. Please make it clear that your post is a vote.

* If you vote for a script on these boards, you need the permission of the owner and the script can't be an unpolished early draft.

* You can change your vote any time within the deadline. If you do so, make a new post.

* After the vote, an official Script Club thread will be created and everyone will have a week to read the script before the discussion starts.

* If we don't reach a majority vote, I will be the tie-breaker, so voting for an option already brought out is a good idea. I might not be able to get on here for a few days on Sunday, Monday and possibly Tuesday, too. In that case I'll type up the official thread earlier and hopefully I can persuade Angry Bear to be the tie-breaker in my place.

-------

I'm still not 100% on what I'll vote for.

I think we have 0 votes so far. Might just be my ignorance and Khamanna could have voted, but I'm not sure from the post whether it was a vote or not, so I'll double-check that.

I should have posted this earlier today as well. Haven't managed this that well so far, I've been kind of preoccupied. Sorry about that.

Looking forward to the votes!

Perfect, man. I was already on the way to suggest you as an organizer. I probably wait for some votes and agree on one of the pilot series since it seems to me what most want here.

Do you include some paramteters or how to structure our analysis?

I'd prefer something which ain't a feature.

I'll have a look around before suggesting something.

And why do we need the permission of the owner for a script on here? They've hosted it on here for people to view anyway, right?

I could go for Arrow.  That's my vote.  It has some good stuff to look at.  It has different time periods.  It has action.  It has intrigue.  It has easter eggs.  Yeah, I'm happy with Arrow.

Quoted from PrussianMosby Perfect, man. I was already on the way to suggest you as an organizer. I probably wait for some votes and agree on one of the pilot series since it seems to me what most want here. Do you include some paramteters or how to structure our analysis?

Cool. We'll probably dissect the script in pieces. Overall opinion, main character, scenes etc. You can just note what you think down somewhere, any way you'd like, and use it as notes for whatever we'll be discussing at the time.

Quoted from Max I'd prefer something which ain't a feature. I'll have a look around before suggesting something. And why do we need the permission of the owner for a script on here? They've hosted it on here for people to view anyway, right?

Okay. Better safe than sorry, I suppose. The owner might not be up for discussion to stray from the script's own discussion thread.

Quoted from DanC I could go for Arrow.  That's my vote.  It has some good stuff to look at.  It has different time periods.  It has action.  It has intrigue.  It has easter eggs.  Yeah, I'm happy with Arrow.

Alright.


Also, I'll definitely be out of town for a period that will overlap with when we should have chosen the script, I probably won't be able to get on here. I guess I'll write up the thread tonight and hopefully Angry Bear can edit the chosen script in there on Monday.

I'll go with Dan, I've seen bits and pieces of Arrow, it's alright.

Arrow it is for me as well.

Keep running short of time. Things are being a bit more hectic than I imagined. Have time to type this message, then I got to bolt. Might not be around for a few days. If I don't manage to get on soon, you folks can choose the script without me.

I don't mind waiting for you DS.  It's your show.  

Whether or not we start today or in 72 hrs, it isn't that big of a deal.  I am sure many of us are working on that 50 stories for Impact...

Dan

I personally don't understand the fuss about that Impact thingy...

Quoted from Max I personally don't understand the fuss about that Impact thingy...

Max,
I think it has to do with the credit to get for IDMD.  It's an "easy" requirement, write 2 pages and be one of the top 50.  All the work has been done.  Big thing hits planet, people go boom.  Simple.

So, now, all we have to do is tell little stories as people wait for the end of their lives.  

Personally, I find it fascinating to wonder how would people treat the last hour of their lives?  Would they try to call a loved one that got away?  Would they riot?  Steal?  Kill?  Confront wrongs?  Have sex?  Rape?  Pray?  Cry?  Fall Apart?  What would they do?  What would you do?

So, I think it's a great topic for a story-like discussion and "series" for the 50.

Dan

The Impact thing is simply that if you get picked it's good shit to have on your resume, you may also make a contact or two.

IMDb is mostly a bunch of bullshit. Doesn't mean a thing.

Bloodline          !

I can't make any selections, sorry. That's the hardest part and I can't. I'll participate in discussions on whatever you chose.

Haven't kept up with this, but I'd go for the TV show. We've never done one, shorter easier read and a lot of writers are trying to write their own thanks to the explosion of TV series being produced.

I'd prefer if the Script Club was a more laid back affair, people popping in and having their say ect.

If I don't get the chance to read all of the script, I'd still like to chime in with what I have read, ya know?

Quoted from Max I'd prefer if the Script Club was a more laid back affair, people popping in and having their say ect. If I don't get the chance to read all of the script, I'd still like to chime in with what I have read, ya know?

Agreed.

Back from the holidays. Looks like you folks didn't go ahead without me. Took a quick look around the boards, but I'm pretty tired tonight and will take a closer look tomorrow.

I won't read the scripts but I'll comment on other people's posts if I feel that I have something relevant to say.

Lol. here my comment from now and now in bad english, no censorship ;-)

Hey yo screenplay gurus. Was up at this place. I thought Ds gave the command to Pia to start things.

Lol Pia, doesn't seem to like to start it now but that's cooool. Should we start this this Sunday????

I'm just joking, don't take it personal. So Max and Dan voted ARROW. I voted BLOODLINE hoping Kham stands her vote... to draw this ridicolous arrow thing...

Really, let's do this. A pilot reads great.

So anyone not given their votes yet, please say what you want to analyze.


Otherwise I think Ds will feel like Back in the future 2 next Sunday. Let's get this starting next week.

Pia, manage, please ;-)

Quoted from PrussianMosby Hey yo screenplay gurus. Was up at this place. I thought Ds gave the command to Pia to start things. Lol Pia, doesn't seem to like to start it now but that's cooool. Should we start this this Sunday????

I told DS via pm that I was going on a mini vacation as well...

I hope you're fine. What do you think about starting Sunday this week, and what is your vote? Have a great vacation, Pia.

Always Sunny pilot!

Quoted from Grandma Bear I told DS via pm that I was going on a mini vacation as well...

Yup. The reason for our delay is just down to me.

I'll get the thread up today, then we can start discussion next Saturday.

I'm not too excited about the choice, but Arrow's pilot has gotten the highest amount of votes (2), both during the deadline and after it. It's only fair that we move on with that. Maybe I'll even change my mind about it after the read. :)