BTW - because I was surfing for such things, I figured I'd share one of the more upfront and easy-to-read guides on WGA minimums.

MIND YOU... all WGA requirements are generally irrelevant when it comes to being non-WGA and breaking into the business.  

However, it's good to know what the business standard is, too.  Once one breaks into the major leagues...  Reality - don't expect to get these numbers.  Credits and developing a brand are far more important.  BUT - it's good to know what these are.

http://www.wga.org/uploadedFiles/writers_resources/contracts/min2014.pdf

There's alos this for Low Budget films, that's those with a budget uner $1.2m

http://www.wga.org/uploadedfiles/writers_resources/lbadschandout.pdf

Fascinating stuff - thanks.

I am pretty sure the only chance of having something actually made is to have it stolen - good to know the amount to sue for.

I guess it depends on what your personal aspirations are CJ...

But certainly there are a hell of a lot of people who seem to think that they'll write one script, sell it to Hollywood and they'll be made for life... More evidence of it over on Stage 32 than here though.

Personally I get a kick out of writing, but I want to see the scripts produced... Otherwise I'd write fiction, or poetry... IF I get paid for it then all the better.

Quoted from CJ Walley To be honest, and steering a little off topic if I may, I think we need a huge cultural shift when it comes to how we perceive breaking in/getting stuff made. There's not enough focus on writing for personal well being and too much focus on writing for financial compensation and/or exposure - mostly because we fall into the trap of believing the latter satisfies the former. The life of an average WGA writer does not seem one to envy, regardless of the numbers in these documents or the prestige of the projects they work on.

An interesting and surely heart felt take. I don't know. I think to many aspiring writers it would also be good for their personal well being if they could do a job (writing) that also paid the rent and bought groceries.

There is also "completion" in scripts that doesn't exist in poetry, novels, etc. i.e., has one really completed the circle if the script is not eventually filmed? It is it's purpose for being a script in the first place - to be filmed.

Thankfully - I don't need this to pay the rent as I am long since retired. And yes, writing, regardless of form, has it's own rewards ranging for pleasure to therapy. But I can't help feeling that there would not be a certain joy from seeing something you wrote on the screen. Kind of like watching your kid graduate or get married. A circle is completed.

Agree Dave, I think screenwriting serves one purpose... to be filmed. Same with Plays, they're written to be staged.

And you are spot on re the joy of watching something you've written, it does feel like it's now complete, of course this feels the most satisfying when the film does justice to your script ;-)

Anthony

Thanks for the shout out Anthony.

Just seems to me that writing a script without it being filmed is akin to a having sex without the orgasm. Sure, it's nice - but there could be more.

I may have just gone too far....

Quoted from CJ Walley The life of an average WGA writer does not seem one to envy, regardless of the numbers in these documents or the prestige of the projects they work on.

I agree. Sure we read about writers that sold scripts for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that gives lots of writers hope that they can do the same. In reality though, many of those writers never manage to sell a script again. Take that guy who wrote Armored for example. He was just another writer on the forums at Done Deal. It was a HUGE deal there when he sold his spec for 600K. After taxes and agent fees, I don't know how much was left, but he packed up and moved from Canada to L.A. Two years later, he was out of money and had to move back to Canada.

I've also heard that the average screenwriter in L.A. makes about 125K per year. That might sound like a lot of money, but in L.A. that doesn't really give you much. Also, most of those writers end up rewriting other scripts or writing on assignment. In other words, writing other people's stories and ideas. So, to me, at least, this has zero appeal. I like to write and will try to venture into prose. (started with a creepypasta) If no one will ever again be interested in anything I write, I will still write, because I love it.  

Quoted from CJ Walley Yeah, I do think all creative pursuits end at presentation to the intended audience.

We are not that far apart CJ - I do think if you are not getting personal fulfillment of some kind from writing and are only in it to sell a script - you are in for a miserable existence.

Agree CJ, there are various parties with a vested interest in selling us the Hollywood dream, usually as part of a sales pitch for whatever snake oil they are peddling!!!

One of the many reasons I love SS, no sales pitches, no guru's hawking their wares, no email newsletter with a bunch of sales messages... just a bunch of writers trying to improve and help each other along the way.

Anthony

Quoted from Grandma Bear I've also heard that the average screenwriter in L.A. makes about 125K per year. That might sound like a lot of money, but in L.A. that doesn't really give you much.

Agreed, but it's still making a living  doing something you're passionate about. More than I can say for most or what I'm doing now. I'm sure at some point they get pissed with the politics of their work and leave it too.

Write because you love it, yes. But nobody on this forum could say they wouldn't love to sit in a full theater and watch a film born from their mind. It's a dream. One that has a mediocre paycheck.

James

I agree with most of the comments. I think personal fulfillment in one's writing needs to take precedent over "breaking in." I think the other way around is unsustainable and, if you're after the money first and foremost, stupid, since you could get that same money faster and easier doing something else entirely. I remember some interview with a professional screenwriter (who, I can't recall) where they said you never really "break in" anyway, but rather "break in" once with one script and then have to break in again and again and again with the ones that come after it.

Working as a professional writer in Hollywood seems like a shit show anyway, for multiple reasons. I can't honestly say that's something I would realistically want at this point. I'd rather see what I can get done with indie producers, even if that severely limits the amount of scripts I could prospectively see produced. There's more to life than getting produced anyway, and like Pia, even if there were no interest in my work, I would still write. There might be some struggles and dry spells ahead, but making the conscious decision not to write, period... just no.

Quoted from jwent6688 Agreed, but it's still making a living  doing something you're passionate about. More than I can say for most or what I'm doing now. I'm sure at some point they get pissed with the politics of their work and leave it too.

I hear you. I think it also depends of where you are n life. If you're young and your goal is to become a professional screenwriter, then it makes sense to give it your all, but if you're older, like me and settled in life, it really has zero appeal to move out there.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I've also heard that the average screenwriter in L.A. makes about 125K per year. That might sound like a lot of money, but in L.A. that doesn't really give you much. Also, most of those writers end up rewriting other scripts or writing on assignment. In other words, writing other people's stories and ideas.

That's where I'd like to end up, right in that range. For me, completing a script is such a task that I'm always kind of down because the quickest I've ever gone from idea to Fade Out is three years. It takes me too much time to derive enjoyment from it. At best, I get a small sense of relief. However, with rewriting other people's stuff, I could do that all day long. This may only apply solely to me, but the idea of "finishing" a script every couple weeks, a few months, whatever, that's my type of dream right there. I don't write the kind of ideas that get the six-figure sale, but I could happily settle for a nice, consistent stream of work like that.

Remember, this is minimum. What did Daugherty get for Snow White and the Huntsman? 3.2Mil? It's still slightly better odds than playing the lotto.

What this spreadsheet doesn't entail is if you're the creator of a television show or residuals from such. Being the showrunner/producer on top of writing it.

There are writers getting paid well. Enough to do nothing but write. This whole thread has been bringing me down so I thought I'd sprinkle some happy dust on it.

James

Going back *several posts* to Anthony's (and many others who have written in on this thread): I agree... there's a huge problem with a certain subsection of new writers who have an idea, write it - and then believe that they'll somehow manage to get "discovered" and sell their work for $100K+ dollars. Maybe even a million!  (Yay...)

Which isn't to say that some scripts aren't worth that.  Even by newbies (though the odds are very much against an absolutely new writer turning out a first draft that's so attention grabbing that it could reach those heights... at least without a very long, painful slog through honing and polishing one's craft.)  Point being, screenwriting is far from being a lottery - even if you're a top notch writer.  As Pia mentioned, even if you DO break through, there are quite a huge number of writers that get one thing produced and.... that's it.  (Which is why scripts SHOULD sell for huge amounts, when there's a major studio involved that can afford to do so.  Because - there's no guarantee that there'll be another any time soon, if ever.  And who's going to pay Con Ed and the mortgage, huh?)

On the flip side of this; those writers who are born to it, do it also for the pure pleasure.  Yes, it'd be so much more peachy keen to see a script produced.  But the very act of writing and creating worlds is pretty wonderful itself.  Anyone who is made for screenwriting will do it - whether or not the script makes it to the silver screen.  

But never, ever hold your breath.  Writers have to make sure they have Plan B, C, and D in place. And keep going - whether or not that big break ever comes.  (And don't put your future on hold waiting for it, either.)  Just enjoy the hell out of the process. Writing's a habit that infects one's blood, soul and brain...  :P