NO SPOILERS

Caught a matinee yesterday and, wow, Quentin Tarantino has out done himself. The screenplay is inspirational and the story fantastic. DiCaprio, Pitt and Robbie are at their best.

I've a new favorite QT movie and am already planning on a second viewing.

Great to hear - for sure on my to watch list

Saw it yesterday.  Agreed.  I HAVE to see it a second time.  

Never heard of it... but I will watch it. Not sure why I haven't heard of this. I don't watch TV (aside from movies and the very occasional series on Netflix), but I'm sure I should have heard of a new QT movie before it was released.

Don't know if I should see this in theaters or wait for the comfort of my home. Jackie Brown has always been my favorite QT movie, and while I believe this is probably a damn good movie, I doubt it'll top JB. Imo, at least.

Quoted from SAC Don't know if I should see this in theaters or wait for the comfort of my home. Jackie Brown has always been my favorite QT movie, and while I believe this is probably a damn good movie, I doubt it'll top JB. Imo, at least.

If that's the case then you will absolutely love this movie. JB was what I thought was most similar as this is so unlike his action films.

I guess I saw a different movie. This film was so self-indulgent and had little story or structure. Which can be fine sometimes, but here, for me, it didn't work.

As much as I hate to admit it, this is the first QT film that I found to be a bit boring (especially in the second act). I'm totally okay with characters sitting around and shooting the shit so long as the dialogue is engaging and witty. And there are certainly some amazing moments in this film. But as a whole, OUATIH is unfocused, too long, and not nearly as sharp as it should be.

I do think the movie is worth seeing for Pitt and Leo. They're true movie stars in every sense of the term and the film comes alive when they're on screen. I also think QT mastered the look and feel of vintage classics (as well as 1969 Hollywood). And then there's the ending. Holy shit does the movie come alive in the last 20 minutes. But it's too little, too late and I can't recommend a film based on one scene alone.

Story wise, it seemed like there were two competing narratives. I wish QT focused on Rick and Cliff and Rick and Cliff only. Poor Robbie is given next to nothing to do so they should have minimized her role in the film even more.

Out of his 9 films, I'd probably place this one near the bottom. But it's still worth the watch as QT is one of the best filmmakers working today.

C+

Hey, Ap, do you mean Pitt and Brad?  :)
Or Pitt and Dicaprio?

I admired Pitt after his comic turn as Chad Feldheimer in Burn After Reading - proved he was no one-trick pony. I hope there's some comical in his role here.

Quoted from LC Hey, Ap, do you mean Pitt and Brad?  :) Or Pitt and Dicaprio?

DERP. Or maybe Pitt was doubly as good haha thanks for the edit. Fixed!

Is Samuel L Jackson not in it?

I do respect Dicrapio (as I ironically call him) as an actor... but I don't really like Brad. He's too Hollywood. That said, I never liked Bruce Willis either until I saw his role in Pulp Fiction.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Is Samuel L Jackson not in it?

He's not.

I dunno why this movie is getting so much praise. It doesn't flow well, it has meaningless scenes that drag on for no reason and add nothing to the story, which is non-existent, really. I think because it's Tarantino people go into it wanting to love it and kind feel an obligation to do so. A lot of cringe-worthy stuff in this film, like that Bruce Lee scene.

Loved this too. Definitely in the top half of Tarantino's work for me.

I realise I'm somewhat biased here as I'm a big fan of what he does (except Death Proof) plus I'm interested in that era and those murders so I was predisposed to like it.

Yet, and this is going to sound as condescending and smug and pretentious as can be, I feel those who didn't enjoy this film either don't like cinema. don't like Tarantino...or both.

Quoted from Demento I guess I saw a different movie. This film was so self-indulgent and had little story or structure. Which can be fine sometimes, but here, for me, it didn't work.

+1.

I adore Tarantino's work, and consider Jackie Brown & Inglorious as his best two, but this was a major misfire, for me.

It just meanders sans the trademark dialogue, sputtering along until the admittedly excellent closing.

Apparently at one stage Tarantino was looking at Tom Cruise for the Pitt role, and it would've made for a better film if TC was in place.

There would've been a freshness and a teaming up of two all-time greats to add a dimension to what felt like a stale partnership re: DiCaprio / Tarantino & Pitt / Tarantino.

I really wanted to like this film, but just found it largely boring. :(

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Yet, and this is going to sound as condescending and smug and pretentious as can be, I feel those who didn't enjoy this film either don't like cinema. don't like Tarantino...or both.

I like cinema, I like Tarantino. I think this was one of his worse movies. I would put it below The Hateful Eight.

The stars, the glitz and glamour seem to elevate the material for some. However, I thought this movie was shallow and had no point or flow.

Quoted from Demento I like cinema, I like Tarantino. I think this was one of his worse movies. I would put it below The Hateful Eight.

I still haven't seen it, but if it's worse than Hateful Eight...damn...that was a shitty movie!  And I've sat through it 1 and a half times!  No more, though.  Brutally dull and smug and such a weak, nonexistent payoff.

Quoted from Dreamscale I still haven't seen it, but if it's worse than Hateful Eight...damn...that was a shitty movie!  And I've sat through it 1 and a half times!  No more, though.  Brutally dull and smug and such a weak, nonexistent payoff.

This movie has no plot, story. It's more of people going about their day, and then there's a finale. Again, that doesn't have to be a bad thing. It's just for me, here, it didn't work. It seemed like Tarantino was making something that appeals mainly, heavily to him. Which is fine, he can do that. But, I don't have to like it :)

Quoted from Demento I like cinema, I like Tarantino. I think this was one of his worse movies. I would put it below The Hateful Eight. The stars, the glitz and glamour seem to elevate the material for some. However, I thought this movie was shallow and had no point or flow.

Fair enough. To me its about the end of an era, a cultural shift, not just in how Hollywood operated but American society at large. The Manson murders (revisionist treatment non-withstanding) are used to illustrate this as they are often seen as a demarcation between 60s idealism and 70s pessimism. The film builds to that moment, those murders hang over events like a dark spectre which we know about but the characters don't has they blighly struggle and succeed in their own little lives. The languid story pace, its digressions and tangents feed into this obliviousness.  

I'm not saying you think this but I feel people sometimes confuse a film that is low on traditional plot mechanics as having no point. On the contrary, I see this to be Tarantino's most thematically rich films. One working on a very different, more low key register (bar the ending) than any of his other work. For that alone, watching it unfold was a fascinating experience.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Fair enough. To me its about the end of an era, a cultural shift, not just in how Hollywood operated but American society at large. The Manson murders (revisionist treatment non-withstanding) are used to illustrate this as they are often seen as a demarcation between 60s idealism and 70s pessimism. The film builds to that moment, those murders hang over events like a dark spectre which we know about but the characters don't has they blighly struggle and succeed in their own little lives. The languid story pace, its digressions and tangents feed into this obliviousness.   I'm not saying you think this but I feel people sometimes confuse a film that is low on traditional plot mechanics as having no point. On the contrary, I see this to be Tarantino's most thematically rich films. One working on a very different, more low key register (bar the ending) than any of his other work. For that alone, watching it unfold was a fascinating experience.

I honestly enjoyed this description more than the movie! A majestic take.

RE: the low on traditional plot mechanics, for me, it shares a similar structure to 'There Will Be Blood', and the reason I choose that as reference is:

1) I love it  and was underwhelmed with this.
2) Tarantino is on record as a big fan of PTA - he considered Inglorious as his answer to TWBB, but can't help feel it's stayed with him and influenced him more fully on his latest.

I'd argue this is just not suited to Tarantino's style, and while he is a visionary and genius, he just doesn't have the range of a Kubrick or Scorsese to work outside his comfort zone, IMO.

How would you compare the two on this little plot / no point basis?

SPOILERS

It has a very straightforward plot. It's an underdog story about a once-popular actor whose career is winding down but who still wants to be famous. When he's confronted by the talent and eagerness of a young actor of the next generation, he initially sinks into despair, but ultimately manages something important -- reconnecting with the acting talent that brought him here in the first place. Having made peace with himself, he accepts his place in the world, and the universe responds by bringing him together with the people who can revitalize his fame.

There's an animating conflict set up in the first full scene, a midpoint turn where the protagonist goes from reactive to active and commits to his path, a low point at his separation from his closest friend and supporter in life, and a goofy deus ex machina that allows him to use the tools of his greatest skill to triumph over evil and make all well for himself and in the universe. The first scene establishes a problem. The last scene celebrates the solution to that problem. This is straightforward, by the "rules" stuff -- all the subplots and digressions don't change that.

It's a cheapie drive-in drama plot, not a 2019 blockbuster plot, but it's definitely a plot.

Quoted from Andrew RE: the low on traditional plot mechanics, for me, it shares a similar structure to 'There Will Be Blood', and the reason I choose that as reference is: 1) I love it  and was underwhelmed with this. 2) Tarantino is on record as a big fan of PTA - he considered Inglorious as his answer to TWBB, but can't help feel it's stayed with him and influenced him more fully on his latest. I'd argue this is just not suited to Tarantino's style, and while he is a visionary and genius, he just doesn't have the range of a Kubrick or Scorsese to work outside his comfort zone, IMO. How would you compare the two on this little plot / no point basis?

That's an interesting comparison. I never thought of Inglourious Basterds and TWBB together. I love both films but for very different reasons. In terms of comparing TWBB and ...Hollywood, again, I don't really see the comparison. I suppose, broadly speaking, they are more character driven than plot driven, more concerned with evoking a time and place rather than an A+B=C narrative, and, in essence, are about the American dream, the American spirit...so I guess they do actually have something in common haha. ...Hollywood feels much more sprawling though, a a larger canvas, while TWBB burrows into one man, so by the end its just him and a bloody bowling pin. But yeah, definitely something to consider.

Evidently, I disagree with you saying Tarantino didn't have the range to try a more meditative, languidly paced approach that is not regularly (bar two sequences) punctuated by violent set pieces. I loved how he clearly tried to make a film apart from his others, particularly given the infamous material he was working with.

Quoted from Heretic SPOILERS It has a very straightforward plot. It's an underdog story about a once-popular actor whose career is winding down but who still wants to be famous. When he's confronted by the talent and eagerness of a young actor of the next generation, he initially sinks into despair, but ultimately manages something important -- reconnecting with the acting talent that brought him here in the first place. Having made peace with himself, he accepts his place in the world, and the universe responds by bringing him together with the people who can revitalize his fame. There's an animating conflict set up in the first full scene, a midpoint turn where the protagonist goes from reactive to active and commits to his path, a low point at his separation from his closest friend and supporter in life, and a goofy deus ex machina that allows him to use the tools of his greatest skill to triumph over evil and make all well for himself and in the universe. The first scene establishes a problem. The last scene celebrates the solution to that problem. This is straightforward, by the "rules" stuff -- all the subplots and digressions don't change that. It's a cheapie drive-in drama plot, not a 2019 blockbuster plot, but it's definitely a plot.

Excellent summation.

I never said it didn't have a plot though. My point is for a 160 minute film, its plot is light and, more importantly, secondary to the main concerns of the film. That is why a lot of people found it to be aimless/plotless as it gets obfuscated behind the meandering structure. At least, that was my takeaway anyway.

I feel that Rick's battle is more with the changing attitudes of the new generation and the emergence of the hippie counterculture which he despises and doesn't understand, then necessarily a professional conflict. Yes, the girl is an embodiment of dutiful professionalism that he lacks but I think what bothers him more so is how out of step he feels in general with the world around him. Cliff expresses similar contempt/bemusement but is altogether more chill about it...unless cornered.

Also, I'm not sure Rick entirely makes peace with his station within the industry by the end. I think its thrust upon him rather than he accepting it. He has no choice, Italy it is!

I do love both these characters though. Two of Tarantino's most nuanced and atypical creations.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 I never said it didn't have a plot though. My point is for a 160 minute film, its plot is light and, more importantly, secondary to the main concerns of the film.

Oh I agree! Was responding to Demento -- though the "no plot" sentiment seems popular everywhere.

You're definitely right that the plot is not the film's primary means of storytelling. I just think it's worth noticing that it's still there, and in a relatively conventional form. And to the extent that Leo (forget his name) is a stand-in for a filmic archetype/essence that was lost to 70s pessimism, that cheapie melodrama underdog plot, itself a relic of the 50s, perfectly aligns with the fairy tale that Tarantino presents, wherein the evils of both eras are banished and the best of both eras come together for a brave new world. So while it's definitely light on plot, I think the criticisms (not yours, Col) aimed at *lack* of plot miss how carefully plot is used.

Quoted from Heretic Oh I agree! Was responding to Demento -- though the "no plot" sentiment seems popular everywhere. You're definitely right that the plot is not the film's primary means of storytelling. I just think it's worth noticing that it's still there, and in a relatively conventional form. And to the extent that Leo (forget his name) is a stand-in for a filmic archetype/essence that was lost to 70s pessimism, that cheapie melodrama underdog plot, itself a relic of the 50s, perfectly aligns with the fairy tale that Tarantino presents, wherein the evils of both eras are banished and the best of both eras come together for a brave new world. So while it's definitely light on plot, I think the criticisms (not yours, Col) aimed at *lack* of plot miss how carefully plot is used.

Oh sorry, my bad.

Yeah, dead right, the fairytale element is a strong thread. Not just in the title but also in that penultimate shot when the gates of Rick's neighbour's open to reveal an almost enchanting winding driveway amongst trees. Its like something from Disney. Rick enters, he is accepted, as if being elevated into a new strata of society. He's finally being welcomed into a world he has felt, heretofore, so excluded from.

I saw this film a few weeks back and when you buy tickets to a Tarantino film you have only two expectations.

1) “Talky” dialogue
2) Brutal violence at least once in the film.

I’m a big fan of theater, so lots of dialogue doesn’t anger me like some people. In theater, all they do is talk! So, ramble on and let me hear the innards of thy soul!! I think, and this is a very simple way to look at it, you have to be a patient observer until the payoff (the ending) to enjoy this film. You also have to love Tarantino for Tarantino’s sake. You can’t expect genius, you have to expect Tarantino. You have to love the style to your very core.

That being said, I only felt this way after the very last scene. The most amazing and hilarious ending I’ve seen in my adult life. My argument is the ending is only as good as it is because of the contrast it has with the the rest of the film. It’s like a punchline to a joke that you didn’t even realize was a joke until you were being told the punchline because the joke was so freakin long.

Loved it.

Quoted from Talldave I saw this film a few weeks back and when you buy tickets to a Tarantino film you have only two expectations. 1) “Talky” dialogue 2) Brutal violence at least once in the film. I’m a big fan of theater, so lots of dialogue doesn’t anger me like some people. In theater, all they do is talk! So, ramble on and let me hear the innards of thy soul!! I think, and this is a very simple way to look at it, you have to be a patient observer until the payoff (the ending) to enjoy this film. You also have to love Tarantino for Tarantino’s sake. You can’t expect genius, you have to expect Tarantino. You have to love the style to your very core. That being said, I only felt this way after the very last scene. The most amazing and hilarious ending I’ve seen in my adult life. My argument is the ending is only as good as it is because of the contrast it has with the the rest of the film. It’s like a punchline to a joke that you didn’t even realize was a joke until you were being told the punchline because the joke was so freakin long. Loved it.

Haha, I enjoyed this take and can't argue with it. Well played, sir.

Thanks for letting know, on my watch it. Weird tho, it’s Tarantino and there’s no much talk about it. Maybe they skipped promoting this movie thinking that the names should do it. Otherwise why did it go by so quietly?

Quoted from khamanna Otherwise why did it go by so quietly?

Did it? It generated a fair amount of publicity when it came out. According to Wikipedia, it made 370 million. Tarantino's second highest grossing film.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Did it? It generated a fair amount of publicity when it came out. According to Wikipedia, it made 370 million. Tarantino's second highest grossing film.

It slipped me by, the only place I heard about it is here.

Watched it last night.

Nope.

Needed some heavy editing. Scenes went on way to long,  Can't count the number of times I watched the entire physical journey of a character (e.g., from the time they got in their car to their destination). The scene where he was on the set at the Western TV show should been about 1/4th as long as it was. There were several scenes that you could have cut out altogether and it wouldn't have changed the movie at all. Basically, it was if I was watching a bunch of scenes rather than a single movie.

I'm not a prude, but the thing with changing the Tate murder history seemed...well, exploitative to me.  I don't why - but it left me with a bad feeling in the gut.

Acting was great! Leonardo especially.

Watched this the other night with the Girlfriend.  I was surprised she wanted to see it.  I was happy she wanted to see it, as I did too.  I was very shocked she had no idea what it was about going in...or 3/4 of the way through.

The good news - we both stayed awake and watched it all the way through the almost 3 hour runtime.  The Girlfriend said she enjoyed it for the most part.

The so so news - I agreed with her it was "entertaining" in that I really had no idea where it was going to go from scene to scene, and it kept me watching, waiting for what I was pretty sure would follow in the finale.

The bad news - Probably not as bad as Hateful eight, but easily at the bottom of the Tarantino ladder of work.  So bloated, so meaningless, so dull.  I'm very sure at least an entire hour could/should have been cut out completely.  The finale was a HUGE letdown for me - it was the best part of the movie, but nowhere near what could have been.

I just feel so let down the more I think about it.  I honestly believed QT would hit hard in the end and make it all worth while, but he didn't.  Ending on the flamethrower scene, for me, at least, came off as a bad joke that wasn't very funny and so out of place.

The scene with Brad at Spawn Ranch had me thinking we're about to get going finally.  It was suspenseful, it kept me wondering, kept me hoping.  Then, it's over, and other than a good old beatdown, it had almost no meaning.

The finale could have been so badass, but QT decided to take his title, "Once upon a time", literally, and give us this what if scenario that was the 1 scene that not only wasn't too long, but actually, too short.  It just ended too quickly and easily, and when that happens, the suspense and terror is gone.

Oh, Quentin, where'd you go, bro?  I miss the old days of your great movies.

Grade - C-

Quoted from Dreamscale Oh, Quentin, where'd you go, bro?  I miss the old days of your great movies.

Unfortunately, when Sally Menke passed away, that was pretty much the end of Tarantino.

Quoted from Mr. Blonde Unfortunately, when Sally Menke passed away, that was pretty much the end of Tarantino.

Good point.  You just may be correct!

He has said that she kept him for being self-indulgent. Which this movie is the definition off.

Quoted from Demento He has said that she kept him for being self-indulgent. Which this movie is the definition off.

It's been that way for three in a row.