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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  Questions or Comments  /  Making Foray into Filmmaking
Posted by: Gary in Houston, August 10th, 2019, 11:16am
I'm thinking (no, seriously, I am) about going out and shooting a short film.  Might be my own script, might be someone else's.  I wanted to hear the experiences of others who maybe have attempted it or were dissuaded from doing it for one reason or another.  I suspect cost might be one of those factors, but those who have approached it, what thoughts do you have one the following:

1.  Buying a camera for shooting purposes versus hiring a cinematographer with their own equipment.

2.  Hiring other crew like sound, lighting, editing, etc.

3.  Just doing it all yourself with an iPhone and a boom mike to start learning the ropes with a very simple script (one location, one or two actors, etc.).

4.  Finding talent like actors (or other crew) and what is considered the going rate for talent (and other crew).

5.  Location, location, location. How do you find free spots to film?

I know there's a dozen more questions I could be asking, and you can throw out anything you want.  Just want to get the ball rolling and see what develops and so want to hear from others who have been there and done that.

Thanks! Gary
Posted by: DustinBowcot (Guest), August 10th, 2019, 12:09pm; Reply: 1
I had a little go at this and didn't do very well, although I did learn a lot from it. With that in mind, you should avoid investing too much cash.

1. You can buy a decent enough camera to shoot a film for a few hundred dollars.

2. Expensive. Try to find like-minded souls prepared to work for a meal and travel expenses.

3. Good idea.

4. Expensive again. Try to find people that are desperate. Don't forget that with a short film the likelihood is you will never see a profit and it will only ever be a hole in your wallet.

5. Businesses may offer free premises for an advert. In the film I shot we got a nightclub for free... and everybody you see in there too. Friends houses. Try to write location-friendly scripts.

6. An expense often forgotten is post production. The costs here can double the budget.
Posted by: Gary in Houston, August 10th, 2019, 12:56pm; Reply: 2
Thanks Dustin!
Posted by: Grandma Bear, August 10th, 2019, 9:28pm; Reply: 3

Quoted from Gary in Houston


1.  Buying a camera for shooting purposes versus hiring a cinematographer with their own equipment.

2.  Hiring other crew like sound, lighting, editing, etc.

3.  Just doing it all yourself with an iPhone and a boom mike to start learning the ropes with a very simple script (one location, one or two actors, etc.).

4.  Finding talent like actors (or other crew) and what is considered the going rate for talent (and other crew).

5.  Location, location, location. How do you find free spots to film?

I know there's a dozen more questions I could be asking, and you can throw out anything you want.  Just want to get the ball rolling and see what develops and so want to hear from others who have been there and done that.


Hi Gary. As you probably know, I´ve made a few shorts now. I´m still an extreme amateur, but these are my thoughts.

1. When I first attempted to make my own films in 2006, I bought the hottest camera out there. I quickly learned that the technology is always changing and changing fast. There was no way I could keep up with the changes, so after just a couple of years, my equipment was becoming old and in a few more obsolete. Nowadays, I hire professional DPs. It can seem expensive, but I don´t have to worry about details and such. I tell them what I´m looking for and they do their best to deliver. I know they can shoot in 4k, 8k or whatever the latest thing is. I know they will have the right lenses and I know they will know how to light the scene. Peace of mind!

2. That should come with the DP.

3.  We´ve all seen stuff shot on an iPhone. Just know that in order for that to look like the pros, you need to buy a lot of extra stuff in order to shoot like a pro on an iPhone. Good practice for writers though, just not good enough to make you look like a serious filmmaker...

4. I live in a town where there´s NO film community whatsoever. I can barely find a cast even when paying. I work a lot with Dena though who lives in Jax which has a big film community. She can easily find crew and cast for free. That´s why we shoot all our projects there. However, free sometimes look free in the finished film too.

I refuse to ask anyone to work for free because as a writer I know we are always asked to do just that. I usually pay $100 per day minimum. Sometimes though, the whole project requires volunteers only, but that´s different.

:)

Posted by: Gary in Houston, August 11th, 2019, 7:33am; Reply: 4
Pia, thanks for the advice! It seems all a bit daunting, but I feel like I want to take this next step. Just curious what I should budget overall for cast and crew for say a five page script with only a couple of locations and 2-3 actors?  $2000? $5,000?  I just don’t have a feel for the overall cost point.

Thanks!
Posted by: Mr.Ripley, August 11th, 2019, 10:00am; Reply: 5
Before you get into the budget, figure out what resources your need. This will help you in determining what the budget will be. Equipment? People? Location? Etc.

Gabe
Posted by: Gary in Houston, August 11th, 2019, 10:52am; Reply: 6
Gabe, my thought is a one location (inside and outside of same location), 2-3 actors, with the following crew: camera, lighting, sound, and an editor.  Five to seven pages, mostly dialogue, so shoot in half a day.  I may be way off on this, but I was thinking $100 for each of the actors, $50-$75/hour for crew (so $300 x 3 = $900 to $1000), $250 for miscellaneous stuff on filming day, and another $250 or $350 for the editor (maybe more).  So I'm thinking about $2,000 to $2,500 for the whole kit and kaboodle.   Like I said, probably WAY off on this.
Posted by: DustinBowcot (Guest), August 11th, 2019, 11:37am; Reply: 7
How much are you prepared to lose? I'd work with that and make everything else fit.

2.5K seems good for a short to me.

I've had shorts shot from 1K to 17K.

You have to be tough though. Remember that everybody will be getting a credit on this. If they look at it as just 'work' then they're not right for your project. They have to love it like you do and want to be a part of it - even if that means taking paycut.

Don't forget post. You may get a great editor, but can he also colour grade and mix sound?
Posted by: DustinBowcot (Guest), August 11th, 2019, 11:39am; Reply: 8
Don't forget the score too.
Posted by: Gary in Houston, August 11th, 2019, 12:06pm; Reply: 9
Dustin, all good points.  Forgot about colourizing.  Score fortunately will be handled by my daughter, who's quite the musician can do the score.

I'm good with spending the $2,500.  I know I'll never see that money again.  This is more for the experience and the fun of it all.  And if I don't do it while I'm bent on doing it, don't know if I'll ever get it done.
Posted by: Grandma Bear, August 11th, 2019, 12:14pm; Reply: 10
Unless you go the free route, I think around $2000 is a good amount. Low end for a short, but you should be able to get something decent from it.

Do not underestimate the time it takes to shoot. Half a day seems a bit optimistic IMO.

Your estimated costs are not bad, but if you use a pro DP, I think you´ll have to figure at least 1k per day. Often, they do editing too since most of them are in video production for their day jobs. You might be able to get a deal on DP and editing if you have that person do both.

One thing most people overlook but might be the most important thing, at least in the US is INSURANCE!!! There are companies out there that insure film productions and they are very reasonably priced unless you have pyrotechnics or stunts.
Posted by: eldave1, August 11th, 2019, 12:29pm; Reply: 11

Quoted from Gary in Houston
I'm thinking (no, seriously, I am) about going out and shooting a short film.  Might be my own script, might be someone else's.  I wanted to hear the experiences of others who maybe have attempted it or were dissuaded from doing it for one reason or another.  I suspect cost might be one of those factors, but those who have approached it, what thoughts do you have one the following:

1.  Buying a camera for shooting purposes versus hiring a cinematographer with their own equipment.

2.  Hiring other crew like sound, lighting, editing, etc.

3.  Just doing it all yourself with an iPhone and a boom mike to start learning the ropes with a very simple script (one location, one or two actors, etc.).

4.  Finding talent like actors (or other crew) and what is considered the going rate for talent (and other crew).

5.  Location, location, location. How do you find free spots to film?

I know there's a dozen more questions I could be asking, and you can throw out anything you want.  Just want to get the ball rolling and see what develops and so want to hear from others who have been there and done that.

Thanks! Gary


Just my opinion.

Not something I would do UNLESS - I was going to (a) go into the business of shooting films or (b) start the on the road of being a devout hobbyist.

There are places on the internet where you can hire free-lancers to shoot for you. Here's a good blog post:

https://vimeo.com/blog/post/how-to-find-and-hire-a-film-crew-when-you-re-on-a/

Just seems to be that there is a particular expertise in producing/shooting films that is expensive to acquire from an equipment and training perspective. Why not act as the producer and hire the talent you need for filming, editing, etc.
Posted by: Mr.Ripley, August 11th, 2019, 1:30pm; Reply: 12
Alright. Now like a screenplay, time for revisions lol. Find out if you can shorten it. Can 1 person do 2 positions or can you do it like Robert Rodriguez�s ? Can you shorten the script and have it make sense?  Etc.

Gabe
Posted by: DustinBowcot (Guest), August 11th, 2019, 1:42pm; Reply: 13
I've heard a general rule in film is that 3 minutes of film equals a day's work... but it depends how complicated the script is. Even in a house, you have to account for set-up times in each individual room.

For the film we shot, it took us one and a half days because we had two separate locations. The nightclub scene doesn't really last that long, but we had a separate day for it. But even on the first day, we were filming at the house for twelve hours.
Posted by: Gary in Houston, August 11th, 2019, 2:39pm; Reply: 14
Thanks guys -- really appreciate the input.

Pia, I forgot about insurance, but like you said, will be pretty inexpensive given what we're wanting to do.  No explosions (unless it's my head with how things are going)!  And good point about finding a dual DP/editor.

Dave -- so to clarify: I really want to get into directing some short films and ultimately with making my own scripts (which means I better start writing scripts worth filming).  So while I'm also acting as the exec producer, the real push on this is to direct and put my vision on film.

Gabe -- I agree, should try to get page count down, because as Dustin pointed out, if it's working out to 3 pages a day, then I really can't afford a nine page short.  Need it to be 3-5 pages at most.

With my short film "Skip", it was two locations (and the first location was only 1 minute on the screen) and only 4 pages.  With some rewrites, it went to five pages and it took two full pages of shooting, so that's a bit daunting.
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, August 12th, 2019, 2:52am; Reply: 15
I’ve done this three times now. I decided to use my own scripts and go down the producer route, getting the film produced via a cast & crew.

I’m not going to hold back here, it’s [swear word] hard and not particularly enjoyable. However, I think it’s been an invaluable experience that helped me grow as a writer. I’ve also got to experience the film festival circuit, film platforms such as Amazon, Vimeo and Alter as well as the world of distribution as one of them got a distribution deal.

Producing is not something I’d volunteer for again, although I do have enough experience now to help out in that area and have done so on several shorts. However, I would recommend it.
Posted by: DustinBowcot (Guest), August 12th, 2019, 3:32am; Reply: 16
Yeah, it's hard... because you're responsible for everything. Everybody looks to you to sort things out. Both the Producer and Director need to have a strong character. It's a massive headache. Well worth doing at least once but like Mark, I'm not interested in pursuing it. It's too much effort. I far prefer writing things down... at my own pace.
Posted by: jwent6688, August 12th, 2019, 9:44am; Reply: 17
I’m editing my fourth film right now so I’ll add my two cents. Whatever location you choose make sure you can go back for some pick up shots. As a newbie you’ll almost always find you needed this shot or that once editing. Also, print out some storyboard templates and draw crude pictures to illustrate every shot, every second of the film best you can all the way through.

A DP will only shoot what you tell them to. An editor can only edit what you give them.
And I pay my cast $50 a day. My sound guy is $10 an hour. I own my camera and lighting. I feed everyone of course. All in all my short films cost me between $400 and $800 right now depending on props. Or if you have to repaint a bathroom because you splattered fake blood everywhere and it doesn’t come off the walls. Best of luck with it, it’s a ton of work but I find it more rewarding then just writing.

James
Posted by: Scar Tissue Films, August 12th, 2019, 9:47am; Reply: 18
Some things to consider:

How much time you have to spend on the learning process.

Your age.

How deep your pockets are.

What the end goal is.


If you are very rich you can pay professionals to do everything. You'll be the Executive Producer and then basically borrow all the skills and a group of people will make your project.

With enough money you don't even need to do anything particularly.

But you're probably going to lose all the money you put in, and because you're borrowing all the skills you might not learn a lot.


The other way is to simply do everything yourself and spend as close to nothing as possible.

If you're doing that I would personally make about ten or so films that cost absolutely nothing. Most directors make around 10-15 before they start getting a hang of it.

Only buy a camera if you're going to use it all the time. They get outdated so fast they are a waste of money unless you are shooting all the time. It doesn't have to be making an actual film...maybe you're just learning how different shots work, what different lenses do, how to pull focus, or you're taking photographs...but unless you're constantly using it it's a waste of money. For a project hire one out on Friday. You then return it on Monday. You get three days for the price of one. Hire companies don't work weekends.


Also bear in mind that along with the camera you'll need allsorts of other stuff: Lenses, focus pull, tripod, Dolly and track, sliders, Gimbals, Microphones, Sound recorders, Nd Filters, Lights, Stands, Bounce boards, filters, light meters etc depending on what you're shooting, where you're shooting, what time you're shooting etc...it's complicated and gets more so the more ambitious you go. Good quality stuff lasts forever. Cheap stuff breaks almost immediately unless you treat it extremely well and can be actively dangerous.



Use available locations: Parks, Churchyards etc....don't pay for locations. Use your house, friends houses etc

Collaborate for free, don't hire people.


Certain DOPs come with free equipment. I don't mean their own (which is also true). I mean that certain privileged people have access to full grip trucks of free equipment from the best companies. They tend to be the daughters and sons of established DOPs. It's also the case that someone who has been to a renowned film school or is going to go will also be given special treatment...it's a way of marketing for the future. This might be beyond where you are now, but it's good to know once you develop even a tiny reputation (the better your films get, the more you attract higher standard people). Hire one, you get everything...and I do mean everything. But you need to have professional grips who know how to use it all. So although you can get even the most ridiculous cranes, grip gear and Hollywood cameras for nowt...you won't get the people qualified to use it safely for nowt. The number of actual film professionals is tiny...and they all know each other. As in your pro actor can phone someone up and check on whether the grip is good enough.

Download a free editing package and learn to edit. It's pretty easy and there's websites and tutorials everywhere for specific stuff.

Sound is absolutely critical. The quality of the gear, how you use it, post production. Bad sound kills a film over anything else. You might want to get a sound guy or two in...otherwise you'll really have to organise yourself really well.

Remember that the quality of the camera is less important than the camera being right for the story. You can film a pro quality film on an IPhone especially IF the story is about people filming on a iPhone.

There is a valid argument that if you can't make a decent film on just an iPhone...there's no reason you'd be able to make one on a high end Arri Cam. The better the camera, the more everything shows up on screen...your lighting, your production design, the make up on the faces of the actors etc

Production design is absolutely key as well. Learn that as fast as possible...and use places that already look great on camera.

Filmmaking can be enormously expensive....and most filmmakers don't budget for marketing. Once the film is completed, that's where another shit load of money comes in...even just sending it to festivals costs a fortune. Some people have entered 100 and been binned off from all of them: That's minimum $5000 for absolutely nothing.

There's only a handful of festivals that actually matter: Cannes, Berlin, LA, Sundance, a couple of others. They're usually the ones that have a market (which means that people with actual chequebooks attend).

Other than marketing the hardest part is deliverables. Crates of contracts covering everything and everyone involved and the locations..and then all the film stuff with audio on different tracks, subtitles, art work and a thousand other things. That shit alone is pretty daunting on a big project.

Overall,  I'd always recommend starting small, if you have the time. Give yourself the chance to learn without pressure and to enjoy it.

It's very much a vocation. You either get the bug and simply HAVE to do it, no matter how hard, or it's not for you. Like all creative pursuits, if you can be happy doing something else, do that instead. It's only for people who have no choice in the matter.
Posted by: Gary in Houston, August 12th, 2019, 12:43pm; Reply: 19
Rick and James, absolutely great stuff there. Really appreciate the thoughts, as I know you’ve both been down this road a few times.  It feels daunting, having seen a couple of my scripts filmed but only seeing it from the writer’s side of things (and not necessarily pleased with how it turned out).  Thus, thought I would come at it from a different angle. Be the director and get my vision on the screen.

But not having the experience I know I need to start small, get the experience, and learn from the school of hard knocks. Make mistakes, but don’t spend outrageous amounts of money making those mistakes. Not shoot something to enter in festivals now, but just get the education in.

I’ve done some editing before but not on the more advanced programs. More like on Adobe Premier Elements. I understand that Adobe Premier Pro is now being preferred over Final Cut Pro but not ready to make that leap to a big time editing program yet. I like your suggestion Rick of just downloading a free program and learning the ropes there.

Just from both of your experiences, what has your shooting schedule been like in terms of pages per day?

Also for everyone — I didn’t think to ask this, but how many of you do a table read ahead of time?  Rehearsals and walk throughs? Blocking out shots?  Do you prefer to shoot indoors or out? Just thinking now about some of the minute details.

Thanks again,
Gary
Posted by: PKCardinal, August 12th, 2019, 12:46pm; Reply: 20
Only experience I have: 7pages with a mostly professional crew and semi-pro cast... started filming at 8 in the morning and finished at 11 at night. 2 locations. One outside, one inside. Multiple setups inside, but all in the same room.

Long, fun day. Trashed the poor house (nothing destructive... just overwhelmed the place), but it was the producer's, so she knew what she was getting into.

No idea how much she spent... but, she handed out a bunch of envelopes that day. None to me. :)
Posted by: jwent6688, August 12th, 2019, 1:16pm; Reply: 21
We shot this in January in about seven hours. https://vimeo.com/315579657 Password is kirtland.

I rushed it as I tend to rush things. There’s a few awkwardly long takes because I didn’t have the right shots to cut to. It was a 7 page script to begin with.

The 8 page script we just finished took four nights and a day.  We wanted to create a thunderstorm so we got to deal with a shitty DIY rain machine, strobe lights and all kinds of problems.

All depends on your script and your crew. I’ve seen teams on the 48hr film festivals shoot five or six locations in 12 hours but they have 20 people or more and it’s basically a race. The smaller your crew the more setup time you’re going to need.

James
Posted by: Grandma Bear, August 12th, 2019, 2:30pm; Reply: 22
It takes a looong time to set up everything. The elevator film Dena and I did, Coulrophobia, we started shooting in the morning and around 1am or so, people were dropping and we had to quit. That whole film was shot in our DP´s living room. We had the elevator made prior.

We also did a little comedy thing called The Curfew and that one we only spent 6 hours on.
Posted by: Scar Tissue Films, August 12th, 2019, 5:31pm; Reply: 23
Impossible to say. Depends on what you're shooting, where, when and how complex the shots are, how many takes you want.

If you're taking a lot of care over everything, especially the lighting.. It can take a long time.
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, August 13th, 2019, 2:46am; Reply: 24
Table reads/rehearsals are essential. First of all, the dialogue may look spectacular on the page but as soon as they start speaking it, you'll spot the issues and need to tweak the dialogue. Secondly, if you are on a tight budget and schedule, you'll need to shoot the scenes as fast as possible. The more prep you can do up-front, the better.
Posted by: Gary in Houston, August 13th, 2019, 12:36pm; Reply: 25
Thanks, Mark - appreciate the input.

I guess a final question on this for those of you who have delved into it. Knowing what you know now, would you do it all again (albeit maybe a tad differently). In other words, did you find at the end of the day it was a worthwhile, fulfilling experience for you?
Posted by: Scar Tissue Films, August 13th, 2019, 12:40pm; Reply: 26
Yes. I would do it every single day if I could.
Posted by: Grandma Bear, August 13th, 2019, 1:41pm; Reply: 27
It can feel like wasted time and effort when a film ends up getting just a couple of thousand views online. I am however driven to get better. The ultimate would be to make a feature film. So yes, I will keep doing this even though it seems thankless at times.
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, August 14th, 2019, 2:30am; Reply: 28
I would, yes. Despite the hard work, when it's finished and out there, it opens up a world of opportunities.
Posted by: ChrisBodily, December 30th, 2019, 7:21am; Reply: 29
James, great film. I just rated it on IMDb.

Gary, I've done this a few times in the past, all one-man-band freebies. I made one as a daily challenge just to see if I could do it. There was a bit of Cinéma vérité going on, but it told the true story of a quarter-life crisis I was going through at the time. I knew what I wanted to do, and filmed it thusly before I even wrote a script. Once I was finished, I wrote one retroactively and dubbed my narration. I didn't have a mic at the time, so I had to use the camera's built-in mic. I eventually EQ'd it to sound the least terrible I could manage. But the worst issue to tackle was that when the scene switched from black and white to color, I had a strong orange/brown/bronze color cast from the lamps. I guess I forgot to white balance. Anyway, I finally got the footage color corrected.

Around the same time, I made a short film compiling video I had taken of my oldest cat in the year or so before she died, when she started to socialize more. Again, no mic yet, so I had to make due with what I had. Also, I edited it in Windows Movie Maker, and I couldn't figure out how to change the frame rate to 24. So it's stuck at 30... and interlaced.

In 2014 or so, my camera died. It was a cheapo standard-def camcorder that could shoot 16:9 and simulate 24 fps. When that one died, my grandparents gave me a cheap HD Sony just before we went on a 2015 vacation. Unfortunately for my needs, it only shoots 60i/p. And since I had upgraded to HD, I found Windows Movie Maker to be incompatible. (In fact, I wouldsave videos, and the picture would end up scrambling, and all you'd see were diagonal bars across the screen.) I chose Blender 3D as a replacement, though I have recently begun to see its limitations, especially with longer clips.

I have another one I shot from c. 2015 to just before we moved in 2017. A black and white 50s-style B movie about a giant hand. Some of it was shot before I finally got my mic (a Zoom H2N), but since there's very little dialogue in it anyway, I re-recorded my two lines with the Zoom. I haven't edited this one yet, but I'm planning to soon.

Just last night/early morning, I finally put the finishing touches on my first video edited using Avid Media Composer | First (the free version of the popular editor). You can read all about it here.

Despite any headaches or learning curves, it's definitely worth it. Make your mistakes now, instead of when you're shooting an important project.

Hope this helps.
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