I wasn't very impressed with the original Black Christmas, but agree with Ryan that it definitely was an early predecessor of many horror staples.

The remake from a few years ago was just terrible, though.  So ridiculous, and so much back story with the Antag just didn't work.

Quoted from Ryan1 I finally saw Black Christmas a couple months ago and was absolutely astounded at how influential this movie was and still is...And I thought "Halloween" came up with that  killer's viewpoint camera work.

"Came up with that?"  Oh, my, no.  Here is an instant-play I recommend for those feeling REALLY studious.

The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari: From 1919, THIS is the film that actually "invented" stuff. The twisty, tilted sets are still a bit mind-blowing, even today -- way ahead of their time -- and Tim Burton undoubtedly picked this film's pockets on numerous occasions. And to my knowledge, this is the film where we first see the killer's POV as he creeps up on a sleeping victim.

A hugely influential film that anyone calling themselves an "educated" horror fan really needs to see.  Check it out.

Quoted from Dreamscale Monsters WOW!!  Very, VERY impressed with this.  Worked for me in every way.  Surprised to hear that many find it dull and unrealistic.  Love the bookend beginning and end. How in the world did they make this for so little?  FX were extremely solid and the overall film had a great look. Highly recommended!

Decent show, wasn't it?!
I liked it myself, especially for what it was and how it was produced.

Per your rare recommendation, I watched SHUTTLE last night.
Nice show.
I'm surprised it's box office was as non-existent as it was.
I guess when Magnolia Pictures is the only suitor on your doorstep you pretty much know where you rate.
(Waaaaaay behind LionsGate! Ha!)

I didn't care for the desaturated BS that's so popular these days.
The pointless driving around irritated me almost as much as "If antag has been doing this so many times already why doesn't he have his supplies already in the crate?" sort of stuff.

Still, a very nice show, if not somewhat documentary-ish by the last forty minutes or so.

Quoted from bert "Came up with that?"  Oh, my, no.  Here is an instant-play I recommend for those feeling REALLY studious. The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari: From 1919, THIS is the film that actually "invented" stuff. The twisty, tilted sets are still a bit mind-blowing, even today -- way ahead of their time -- and Tim Burton undoubtedly picked this film's pockets on numerous occasions. And to my knowledge, this is the film where we first see the killer's POV as he creeps up on a sleeping victim. A hugely influential film that anyone calling themselves an "educated" horror fan really needs to see.  Check it out.

I've seen bits and pieces in film school but don't think I've seen it in its entirety. I'll have to check it out when I've got less stresses and more patience, ideally after I've finished my latest script. Might make a nice pairing with Nosferatu, which I also haven't seen in its entirety.

The Abonimable Dr Phibes is great as well.

Also, Mr Sardonicus.

Love old horrors.

Rick, we are in agreement!!!!!  Dr. Phibes ROCKS!  As does Dr. Phibes Rises Again and of course, Theater of Blood.

Released in 71, 72, and 73.  I actually think my Dad took me to see at least one of them at the theater, though I was a wee one at the time.  Always been into horror!

I watched Dr. Caligari today and I must say I was impressed with the set design as well.  Extremely daring and profound.  To think this movie was made in 1919 as Europe was digging out of the wreckage and horror of WWI makes it all the more impressive.  The movie's influence, particularly on Tim Burton, is obvious.  

SPOILERS
But, the skewed sets also gave away the twist ending of the film.  You know immediately that what are you seeing didn't happen, but instead is the demented imaginings of a disturbed mind.  

Also, I just didn't see any evidence of this film using the first person killer's point of view, unless I somehow missed it.  Black Christmas is still the earliest film I've seen that employs this cinematic device.  Especially the accompanying heavy breathing(I know, kinda impossible to do with a silent film).  Black Christmas also had that great shot of the crazed eyeball glaring out of the hole in the wall.  I've seen that shot copied many, many times since.

BTW, has anyone seen this Korean creature feature called Chawz?  Sort of a Korean homage to Jaws, but with a monstrous wild boar tearing up the countryside.  It runs kind of long and loses steam in the third act.  But, it has this odd, quirky Korean sense of humor running throughout it and the boar effects are actually pretty good.

Chawz is in my que...will get to it soon, but I don't have high hopes for it..but I will give it a try...

Quoted from Ryan1 I watched Dr. Caligari today...I just didn't see any evidence of this film using the first person killer's point of view, unless I somehow missed it.

Apologies if I am mistaken, Ryan.  It has been many years since I've seen it myself -- but I could swear there is a sleeping woman, and as "the somnambulist" creeps up upon her, we are closing in from his POV.  To the best of my recollection, anyway.

And how many movie monsters mimic the look of the somnambulist, with that pasty face and darkened eyes?  As for influencing Burton, I would say that Edward Scissorhands is pretty much a dead ringer.

Anyways, glad I convinced at least one person to check it out.

If you are the type that likes to examine the "history" of horror cinema, Caligari is a film that cannot be neglected.

Pia...Pia...Pia...I disagree with you.

This is not a bad or shitty script.  There's nothing shitty about it.   All the characters are well established and likable.  No one dos anything stupid, in terms of being in a horrendous situation, no one thinks quite clearly, and most of us have no experience with guns.

The setup was believable.  There was major tension...and horror, and nothing stood out as being ridiculous.

Yeah, it was well executed and extremely well acted and that's always going to be a deal breaker, but IMO, there's nothing in this script that I would call BS on.

I think that's where we're in disagreement.

As I continually say, a script does not have to reinvent the wheel. A script does not have to be anything other than effective, without mistakes and this one appears to be both, IMO.

Good characters.  Believable actions and reactions.  Good setup.  Unpredictable finale.

Voila...successful movie!  Easy!

I'm with Pia on this one.

It was a very ho-hum film and story. Instantly forgettable.

So Rick, you're saying you don't feel it's a good movie?  Or are you saying it's a good movie, based on a bad script, like Pia said?

I watched it not long ago and I can barely remember what happened.

Was just completely insipid for me. Not a terrible film, but just not enough of anything. Not enough emotional drama, not enough tension, not enough action.

I can't really say whether the script was good or not, because I haven't read it, but the film didn't seem like it was particularly badly executed, it just wasn't particularly strong in any area.

The characters, the things they do...none of it really made an impact on me. Which I'm presuming came from the script.

Compared to a similar film like Open Water, it just didn't reach me.

It's one of those interesting films that critics seem to like, but audiences didn't really take to.

79% critics approval on RT compared to just 37% from audiences.


So to answer your question:

You think it's a good film with a good script.

Pia thinks's it's an OK film with a crap script.

I think it's an OK film, with (probably) an OK script.

Pointless argument. Everyone should just watch Rogue instead. I think that flick was as good as anyone could've made with the premise of a killer croc.