I don't think ellipses can entirely substitute for beats. How can you tell if a characters trailing off or just pausing before he continues to speak?

I really got to say, all this bums me out. Totally caught me off guard. Is it actually considered bad writing to use beats and ellipses or is it simply pointless?

From what I've seen the double hyphen is used when a character is being interrupted by another character's dialogue.  The ellipses can be used for trailing off.  I use pauses and beats in my screenplays also.  I think I've only used beats in subtext though, I don't think I have ever used it in dialogue.  That's where pauses go.  

Ha this is some good feedback.  I like this.    

yeah, this has turned into a very interesting post as it seems alot of people were wondering the same or similar things to go

but i guess the general consesus is NO WE SEE'S! and use beats sparingly and try to avoid them

Haha yeah we see's are bad.  

I am embarassed that I have so many in mine.  I might have to send my new draft ASAP.  

Using these devices isn't exactly bad writing. Since we're used to reading shooting scripts, we tend to migrate toward that style. Unfortunately, we have to write spec scripts which is slightly different. Spec scripts require a level of creativity between seeing the action on screen and writing a novel in screenplay format. Gotta be descriptive, but not too descriptive. Gotta be precise, but not too precise. But above all, you gotta tell the story and only the story. Forget the camera and everyone behind the scenes who may eventually read this masterwork. The story comes first, and it must be free of motion picture shooting script conventions...oddly enough.

And to confess, my first script contained a fair amount of we see's and lots of camera directions, but I've since cleaned it up and found a more descriptive way to say the same thing.

No caps? wow, I use those all the time.
So wait, you mean to say something has the following shouldn't contain any of the caps except for names?

EXT. GRANDMA’S HOUSE – DAY

A BLUE VOLKSWAGEN is parked outside of a small but nice looking old fashioned house. Moss is growing on the roof and a few vines are also sprouting, climbing towards the upper windows.

LUCAS MARTIN and MICHELLE (both in their early 20’s) are sitting in the car. Lucas looks upset as Michelle buckles her seatbelt.

He turns to look in the back of the car where a BLUE AND WHITE URN rests. He shifts it to make sure it’s not going to move on the drive ahead.


             I always though caps were fine for anything you wanted the audiences attention drawn to. Is that wrong then?

I actually hadn't read about CAPS being taboo. What I'd always read is that they tend to be overused, and should only be used for the first time someone appears and the first time something important appears.

In your example above, the car has relative importance since it gets them to where they're going and plays a role in the plot, so its capitalization can be justified. The urn is major enough that it can be capped as well, but the colors of the urn and car are not so important, unless blue and white is daddy's alma mater or something.

What one must be careful of is this:

He HITS his ARM against the END TABLE. BLOOD spills onto the SHAG CARPET, making a LARGE RED SPOT.

Dave Trottier pointed out many taboo spec sins in his Screenwriter's Bible, but captilzation, properly used, is not one of them. But this is an art, not a science.

thanks for the clarification George

i agree that the example you gave over used the caps and i dont do anything that bad. I just cap important objects or physical traits of characters so it appears i have nothing to worry about

I'm writing a script with a lot of dramatic irony in the form of a stalker.  Should I:

1)  Use "POV" shots, even though it's directing.
2)  Use "We see"s (NO APOSTROPHE, GRAMMER-LESS FOOLS)
3)  Do something else.

How does one do dramatic irony without "We see"s?

POV shots are a must.  I can't see how you can write that type of shot without putting that heading.

I mean I guess you could say "Through the eyes of the stalker, a girl emerges from the apartment building." or " From the stalker's vantage point, a girl emerges from the apartment building."  But I think a POV shot would work better.  Some people on this site are pretty anal about camera angles but oh well, I use POV shots.

"We see's" are a big no no though.  It's a sign of laziness and just plain ignorance.  I see a lot of produced screenplays that contain that BS and it pisses me off everytime.  These people are supposedly "professional" writers and they have nothing better to write down other than "we see" every sentence.  Any sentence you write that begins with we see, you can rewrite.  It's a proven fact.  I used to be the king of "we see" ask anyone on this message board.  It looks much more professional and you look more literate when you don't use "we see."

Hope that helps.    

"We see", "We hear," etc. aren't necessarily frowned upon unless they're used in proliferation.  If you can't go more than a page without wriiting 'we see" then I'd say it's time you figured out a different way to write it.  For instance...

"Bob and Tom argue.  We see Bob's hand slide down to his pistol, out of Tom's view..."  could just as easily be written as:

"Bob and Tom argue.  As they continue, BOB'S HAND slides down to his pistol."  This is a way of directing what the reader sees and calls attention to something the other character doesn't see, without adding in a cut-away, insert or camera direction.

As for beats, I'm just as guilty of using them as anyone.  And though there are ways to be creative when it comes to a dramatic pause, I worry about that in the rewrites.  My first drafts are always chock-full of "beats" every where you care to look.  When I start the rewrite, THEN I worry about changing it to "Bob fumes" or "Jerry is momentarily struck by silence" or whatever.  But even then, if I can't think of a simple alternative, I'll just stick to using "beat" because it's universally given that if you see a "beat" in a script that there's going to be a moment of silence.

As for POVs, I never bother with them.  Usually when you use a direction like that, you have to put in a "BACK TO SCENE" afterwards to let the reader know you're finished looking through a character's eyes.  I've yet to write POV in anything I've written thus far because it's easier and less jarring to the eye to write "Bob looks through the binoculars and sees..."  or "The killer peeks around the corner and sees...", etc.

when that word is used like....like this for instance:

NAME
(beat)
what does that word
mean? does it mean
"pause" or something
or what?

Yeah...that's exactly what it means.  A dramatic pause.

And actors DETEST them -- as you are telling them how to do their job.

You should not use them -- as they will be ignored anyways -- and in fact, the actor will probably pause someplace different just to be petty.

If your dialogue is "right", the actor will know when to pause.

You will see "beats" in a lot of scripts -- sure -- but you should not use 'em.

I love using them even though I know we're not supposed to, it gives the writer a way of telling the reader a dramatic pause.

Hey we're writing scripts to be read by others, maybe if you're making it you can change those things but sometimes actors look to the guys in charge for motivation on the character.

Would you recommend pause or beat? I've started using pause, because it's more human and not so technical, I suppose.

Although, I expect I'll take them out in the re-write anyway.