Question:

If you write a script for a musical that uses various "famous" songs, do you have to pay for each and every song you use? Does anyone know the budget for a movie like Mouline Rouge or Across the Universe? Also, is there a special format for musicals?

Quoted from DDP Question: If you write a script for a musical that uses various "famous" songs, do you have to pay for each and every song you use? Does anyone know the budget for a movie like Mouline Rouge or Across the Universe? Also, is there a special format for musicals?

I don't know the numbers involved, but you do have to pay for each song if you wish to use them.

The movie, The Big Chill, started a new trend of using old songs in movies.  Most of the songs in this movie were in public domain.  Hence, no royalties were paid.


Phil

Thank you, Phil. Question: Which songs are in public domain? From what year back?

There isnt a list of songs in public domain. You have to research each song.


Phil

That's a good question, I'm now curious of the answer.

Almost Famous:
Featuring over 50 songs, the film's music budget was $3.5 million. Most music budgets for films are less than $1.5 million.

If you're gonna have hits in your musical then expect to pay a lot.

From HowStuffWorks.com:

Now, let's say that a movie producer is working on a new movie and wants to use the song in a scene. Now the song is moving into the realm of synchronization royalties (where music is used in conjunction with video). When a songwriter's work is synched with a scene in a movie, played over the credits at the end of a movie, or used in a television show or commercial, the songwriter and publisher are paid a negotiated fee to use the song in the movie as well as performance royalties when the movie is shown on TV or in theaters in foreign countries. If the movie uses the specific recording of your song (known as a "master") made by the artist who made the song famous, then that artist will receive a regular royalty percentage from the fee the movie company negotiates with the record company as well as mechanical royalties if there is a movie soundtrack produced. The songwriter and publisher will also receive mechanical royalties from sales of a soundtrack.

That doesn't really answer your question, but it does give you a idea of.. How it Works.

The cost per song is going to depend on a lot of factors and there is no firm number. Your best bet is to contact the publishers of the songs you want to license to find out what their royalties are for your project. The cost is going to vary depending on the venue, the budget, the project, etc.

As for public domain, most (and I say most) properties go into the public domain 50 years following the death of the author. So pretty much everything from the 1800's is in the public domain. Now, this is the death of the AUTHOR, not the copyright of the material. Mark my word: there will likely be an unusual number of James Bond films coming out after 2013. Why? Ian Fleming died in 1963. Fifty years is fifty years.

Now, one thing to remember about public domain music, such as Beethoven's Ninth Symphony (people like this). While the music itself may be public domain, this does not mean you can run down to Best Buy and grab a CD. The PERFORMANCE of these pieces is also copyrighted to the performers. It won't cost you anything to make your own recording of Beethoven's Ninth, but that Chicago Symphony recording is gonna cost you.

Te easiest solution is to create your own, or record your own from the public domain, using authors that died prior to 1950 or so (and you'll want to double check this since Disney through a huge fit when they learned ALL of Walt Disney's characters -- as in those made BY him, such as Mickey Mouse -- would go public domain in 2017 and had parts of the copyright law extended to 75 years).

You need to research it and the only way to know for sure is to contact those who own the copyright.

Quoted from Alex J. Cooper That's a good question, I'm now curious of the answer. Almost Famous: Featuring over 50 songs, the film's music budget was $3.5 million. Most music budgets for films are less than $1.5 million. If you're gonna have hits in your musical then expect to pay a lot. From HowStuffWorks.com: Now, let's say that a movie producer is working on a new movie and wants to use the song in a scene. Now the song is moving into the realm of synchronization royalties (where music is used in conjunction with video). When a songwriter's work is synched with a scene in a movie, played over the credits at the end of a movie, or used in a television show or commercial, the songwriter and publisher are paid a negotiated fee to use the song in the movie as well as performance royalties when the movie is shown on TV or in theaters in foreign countries. If the movie uses the specific recording of your song (known as a "master") made by the artist who made the song famous, then that artist will receive a regular royalty percentage from the fee the movie company negotiates with the record company as well as mechanical royalties if there is a movie soundtrack produced. The songwriter and publisher will also receive mechanical royalties from sales of a soundtrack. That doesn't really answer your question, but it does give you a idea of.. How it Works.

Very interesting, thank you. It does give me an idea as well as other factors to start thinking about.

Quoted Text The cost per song is going to depend on a lot of factors and there is no firm number. Your best bet is to contact the publishers of the songs you want to license to find out what their royalties are for your project. The cost is going to vary depending on the venue, the budget, the project, etc. As for public domain, most (and I say most) properties go into the public domain 50 years following the death of the author. So pretty much everything from the 1800's is in the public domain. Now, this is the death of the AUTHOR, not the copyright of the material. Mark my word: there will likely be an unusual number of James Bond films coming out after 2013. Why? Ian Fleming died in 1963. Fifty years is fifty years. Now, one thing to remember about public domain music, such as Beethoven's Ninth Symphony (people like this). While the music itself may be public domain, this does not mean you can run down to Best Buy and grab a CD. The PERFORMANCE of these pieces is also copyrighted to the performers. It won't cost you anything to make your own recording of Beethoven's Ninth, but that Chicago Symphony recording is gonna cost you. Te easiest solution is to create your own, or record your own from the public domain, using authors that died prior to 1950 or so (and you'll want to double check this since Disney through a huge fit when they learned ALL of Walt Disney's characters -- as in those made BY him, such as Mickey Mouse -- would go public domain in 2017 and had parts of the copyright law extended to 75 years). You need to research it and the only way to know for sure is to contact those who own the copyright.

Wow, thank you so much! I hadn't thought about the possibility of recording the music yourself. That's quite interesting. You're very smart!!

Thank you.

When you talk about production stuff, I just suggest whatever I would do in your shoes. But then, I also write music.

Very interesting.  I've always wanted to write a musical with my own songs...now I feel inspired.

But the 1.5 million dollar average music budget for movies is also very interesting.  I totally did not know that.  Thank you.

Quoted from George Willson But then, I also write music.

Holy cr*p! Your cool factor just went WAY up. Awesome. George, this may sound a bit dumb, but what basic information does a person need to know to be able to write music?

I'm sorry for asking such a general question, but although I love music, the only real experience I have is listening to it. I don't play any instruments nor do I know how to read music notes.

Is there hope for me if I want to learn how to construct a song?

I think lyrics and the actual music are two different things.  Writing a song is like writing a poem, but being able to actually sing it and adding in notes for whatever instrument you're using is the skill in making music.  

I wrote and sang "The George Bush Spangled Banner" to my 11th grade history class 4 years ago.  It sounded like dogcrap, but it was an accomplishment, nevertheless

Quoted from greg I think lyrics and the actual music are two different things.  Writing a song is like writing a poem, but being able to actually sing it and adding in notes for whatever instrument you're using is the skill in making music.

Do you know if most songs begin with lyrics or with music?

From my listening experience I'd go with lyrics, but depends on the musician or band. Bob Dylan for example tells a story and usually just has a 3 chord structure. Then you have Metallica who enjoy making riffs and solos. In their Doco you saw they just added the lyrics in over the songs. The average song structure is Intro, Verse, Chorus.. Interlude, then you finish with something. Again, from my listening experiences its usually a fade out. That's the norm, but theres many other ways. I made a chorus that i liked so much, i just repeated it throughout the whole song with this one basic riff. Now that i remember it, it wasn't very good.

Quoted from DDP Do you know if most songs begin with lyrics or with music?

I wrote song lyrics and play guitar (can't write or read music notes though, just guitar tabs) But for me it usually started with the lyrics. Cuz if you don't have anything to say, there's no point in writing a song. However every once in a while a melody or riff will enter your head and then the lyrics just follow. But for me 80% of the time, it starts with the lyrics.

Quoted from DDP what basic information does a person need to know to be able to write music? Is there hope for me if I want to learn how to construct a song?

Is there hope? Sure. What will it take? Well, music is another language just like trying to learn Spanish or Swahili, and learning it to the point of being able to "speak it" takes time and effort. Can you write music without being able to "write" music? Sure. Danny Elfman may be the composer of film music, but it is Steve Bartek that writes it all out and orchestrates Danny's compositions.

Song construction is like contructing anything else in that it requires a logical progression from one phrase to another. Depending on the music you wish to write, listen to that particular genre to learn the phrasing. Most songs follow a really basic format of verse-verse-chorus-verse-verse-chorus-chorus. This is sometimes expanded to verse-verse-chorus-verse-sometimes verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-chorus. We could go on like this for quite some time.

Quoted from DDP Do you know if most songs begin with lyrics or with music?

That depends on the writer and the song. For myself, it depends on whether I come up with cool music first, or a cool lyrics first. Usually, with a song, if I come up with lyrics, I'm singing the music right along with them, so in technicality, they're written at the same time. The recommendation for which one going first is lyrics, and this is because music is a far more malleable language than the spoken word. However, if you can work the words and music so they always line up throughout the entire song, you'll score higher with the song than if the musical rhythms constantly change to fit the lyrics. It is also a plus if the sung rhythm of the words is consistent with the way they're spoken. How many songs have you heard where the wrong syllable is accented to fit the music? It's kind of a cheesy compromise when you can just rephrase the line to make it fit better.

It can be a trick to line up words and music in a manner that sounds natural and never changes the rhythm of either part from verse to verse. It takes a lot of practice, but even someone with no musical background can do it.

My musical background is rather extensive, though, which is how I do it. If you can learn how to at least chicken peck your way around a piano, that's useful.

Quoted from George Willson My musical background is rather extensive, though, which is how I do it. If you can learn how to at least chicken peck your way around a piano, that's useful.

My piano teacher always used to say, "If you can read and play piano you can play any instrument." It's true, except in the case of percussion. I'm hopeless on drums.

I only recently picked up drums, and now I can hold my own fairly decently on them. They aren't that difficult if you can convince your hands they both do and don't have to work together. Same with the feet. If the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, you're off to a good start.

Quoted from George Willson I only recently picked up drums, and now I can hold my own fairly decently on them. They aren't that difficult if you can convince your hands they both do and don't have to work together. Same with the feet. If the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, you're off to a good start.

Sadly, I am one of those people that cannot follow a beat with my hands or feet. I guess, I could learn it if I practiced though. Cheers to you for being good at the drums. My brother was brilliant at it growing up, but then he stopped playing; it was creating too much noise in the house and my parents "gently" forced him to give it up.  

You need two releases. Even if a song is in puplic domain you still have to get permission from that particular artist performing the song too.

If you use something in the public domain and you have George willson singing his rendition of it, you still need George's permission to use it.