I'm not talking about story structure.  I'm talking screenplay structure.  USC 15-30-45-60-90, etc. and variants on it.

Here's what I know about selling scripts.  Development executives are mostly under 30.  A big chunk of them weren't born when Terminator was released.  You want to sell a script then your references to what you've read or what you've seen can't be older than ten minutes.

That explains why most current movies are rubbish

Maybe that's what's so worng in Hollywood these days...Execs who make decisions being under 30?  C'mon.  Rubbish!

Finally finished this one and I'm excited to be apart of my first SC. Spoilers below.

My first impressions were "OK". I read the first half, and was getting into it and to me, it slowed.

Plot, was good but towards the end, I got tired of all the running around in (essentially) the same direction. From the first church, it was basically find a clue, next church, Find a clue, next church. They went back to the archives to mix it up... It was arbitrary IMO. I was excited when I thought Camerlengo was Illuminati. I would've liked to see an infiltration at the highest level. Once I learned it to be a red herring, I was genuinely upset. The whole deal with the antimatter bomb - could almost have been entirely nixxed. Make the story REALLY about the Illuminati. Some parts I didn't buy: A priest flying a helicopter and knowing how to set it on autopilot to make it continue to go up an parachuting out successfully, the bomb's batteries (isn't it cold that makes battery's charge drain?), the bomb itself (though I don't know much of antimatter according to scifi).

Characters were alright, but as mentioned, were basically told us basic things and that's the end of it. I was COMPLETELY confused by Vittera/Langdon at the end, they didn't spend enough time  to really bond andgrow a relationship. That seemed random. Langdon was the action star without the action. Figures things out, says his one-liners, move along. Vittera was unnecessary. What purpose did she serve? Validate that the battery existed or just a female presence for a summer blockbuster? Camerlengo was my favorite character, but only based on the facade he created. Anyone mention Mr. Gray? Anyone else feel cheated on how he just died suddenly?

Dialogue was solid, I had no problems.

Writing - The we's outside the dialogue I had problems with, like a few others.... Though, I loved the transitions. Greatly put together, but isn't that the director's job? I loved how the scene in the Santa Maria Della Vittoria (fire church) was written and how it played out (though Mr. Gray was super-human). Nice flow of action going on.

Commercial Appeal - I'll watch it on DVD. Will probably make a bundle in the theaters, like someone said earlier, it's enough to make you think they're thinking, without making you think.

Conclusion: It seemed to me a normal Hollywood summer blockbuster following National Treasure, Crystal Skull, etc... It was a little forumaic and mind-numbing. I'll probably enjoy the movie, but for the same reason I enjoyed Da Vinci Code - to simply feel entertained. But I think I could blame Brown more than Koepp.

-kjb.

Quoted from Lakewood I'm not talking about story structure.  I'm talking screenplay structure.

I assumed you were talking about story structure because you explicitly said story structure here:

Quoted from Lakewood If you want to be a working screenwriter and are reading for *story structure and technique don't go back more than three years.

So far we have a grand total of three different conflicting opinions from Lakewood. Here he’s talking about story structure:

Quoted from Lakewood If you want to be a working screenwriter and are reading for *story structure and technique don't go back more than three years.

Here he recants that and claims he’s talking about screenplay structure:

Quoted from Lakewood I'm not talking about story structure.  I'm talking screenplay structure.

Here he recants that and claims they’re the same:

Quoted from Lakewood Story structure is screenplay structure.

[Edit: I removed my initial response because Lakewood can’t make up his mind what he’s talking about.]

Quoted from Lakewood Here's what I know about selling scripts.  Development executives are mostly under 30.  A big chunk of them weren't born when Terminator was released.  You want to sell a script then your references to what you've read or what you've seen can't be older than ten minutes.

I’m sure the writers of Terminator Salvation regret making their knowledge of Terminator known.


Breanne


*emphasis mine.

I think Lakewood has a valid point.  If you want to sell a script to Hollywood then your pitch shouldn't refer to anything but recent entertainment.   Likewise your script should be free of references to these as well.   However, I think Lakewood seems to be applying it as a dogmatic rule and it is actually more of a guideline - because I'm certain there are exceptions.

Quoted from mcornetto If you want to sell a script to Hollywood then your pitch shouldn't refer to anything but recent entertainment

How do you explain all the re-makes being produced?

Oh, and something else about the writing... I liked the descriptions and I didn't feel it was heavy at all. And Shelton's problem with the wording on the line "Langdon notices a woman to his left..." I think that's more of camera/acting direction than anything. He notices someone there and reveal to camera: it's Vittoria.

-kjb.

Should I continue?  Sure, why not, Bread and Circuses.

Insert quotes from Breanne, blah-blah, too much work...

Story structure is screenplay structure.  I tried to clarify and it sent more wheels spinning. I wasn't talking English 101 "this is how you tell a story" which is what you read it as being.  Which is strange because I don't know any working screenwriter who wouldn't understand what I meant by story structure.  Story structure is your beats.

Remakes and whatnot all hinge on the fact that studios own copyrights and concepts and it's cheaper to remake than spend time developing a new property.  A lot of that comes from marketing and name recognition.  I bet three quarters of the people who put the new Witch Mountain together never opened the DVD box to watch the original.  All they needed to know that the title and concept tested well with tweens and there was going to be a nostalgia factor with their folks.

I'm not against anyone reading anything.  I'm in favor of literacy.  Three years is the agency rule not mine.  So, go read Zapped or Rio Bravo or whatever but don't use it as a writing template.

Now, back to the show.  And my question is what kind of symbolist doesn't know how to read Latin?

Quoted from Lakewood So, go read Zapped...

Dear, sweet Jesus.  Did you just whip out an 80's Scott Baio movie?

Quoted from Lakewood And my question is what kind of symbolist doesn't know how to read Latin?

Good point! Didn't think of that. My memory is a little foggy at the moment, but didn't he speak or at least understand Latin in Davinci Code?

MadHATter, welcome and thanks for taking part in the SC.  

In the book and a little bit in this script too, it was explained that the priest had military training and flew missions as a pilot rescuing people or something like that... not bombing people because that would just be odd.  

Quoted from Shelton Dear, sweet Jesus.  Did you just whip out an 80's Scott Baio movie?

So we ARE talking about the movie with the magic prune juice, huh?

Anyway, I'm 100% with the hatter on the Illuminati thing.  This was much more interesting, and oddly enough, more believable.  I can buy the Camerlengo being Illuminati all along, and finally seizing his opportunity.  I can't buy him suddenly flipping out, offing his mentor, and concocting an elaborate plot to become the new Pope.  Again though, this is an issue with Brown rather than Koepp.

And to clarify, cold temperatures extend the life of batteries.  Which is why some people store them in their freezer.

Quoted from Grandma Bear it was explained that the priest had military training and flew missions as a pilot rescuing people or something like that...

Right. Forgot about that, oops.

Quoted from escapist I can't buy him suddenly flipping out, offing his mentor, and concocting an elaborate plot to become the new Pope.

I can completely understand a devout person doing what is necessary to protect what he truly believes in. But if killing his mentor is the frickin pope, the most respected and honored man on the planet... that's too far, I agree. What makes him feel so righteous as to think he can be pope? Wouldn't Mortati have been just as good, he seemed the least liberal of all, which is what Camerlengo wanted. And to invoke an ancient doctrine that MAYBE someone would remember... The Illuminati angle would've been more interested and possible for me.

Quoted from Shelton Dear, sweet Jesus.  Did you just whip out an 80's Scott Baio movie?

That's a Willie Aames movie pal.  Get it right!

Quoted from Grandma Bear Btw, I think this is the most positively received script we've had in the SC so far. Maybe that's why it's somewhat quiet here? Maybe there just isn't a whole lot to complain about? Would be interesting to pick up the discussion again if only for a day or two after we've had a chance to watch the film and hear our thoughts on how it turned out compared to the script.

Well it's certainly better than The Strangers!

It might be interesting to take a look at the Goldman draft that they tossed out and started over.  Compare what didn't work, with what did.