I've been reading Lew Hunter's Screenwriting 434 and he suggested that sluglines should be Day or Night only.  No Dusk, Evening, Morning, etc.  He felt that to use these other descriptions was amateurish.  

I was unaware that this was a no, no.  Anyway, I was curious to hear some opinions.

Day or Night should be the PRIMARY times of day that you use. It means the sun is either up or down, and in most stories, that's quite enough. Things don't usually happen during sunrise or sunset/dawn or dusk. Morning and evening are completely pointless because they are about the same as day and night. The script will reflect the time of day, so you are again left with day or night.

However... There are some very, very rare instances where you MIGHT want to use DAWN or DUSK. And really only those two would be the only other ones. Why? Because with those two, the sun is neither up nor down. It is sitting directly on the horizon in the process of going up or down. What are some times you would use these?

Vampire movies. Guess when the climax of most classic vampire movies occurs. Dawn or dusk, That's when it happened in the original Dracula novel. They could only affect Dracula at dusk or dawn because that's when he was at his weakest. Hence, the final showdown in the book was at dusk. Let us remember the movie From Dusk Till Dawn. I'll bet that film used those slugs to denote the specific time.

I used it once when I had a vampire-like character sit and wait for the sun to rise on him. Dawn was the singular best time to use because the scene occurred literally as the sun was coming up, so neither day nor night would have been appropriate.

It could also be used when the story indicates that something important will happen at that time, and so when you hit that climactic moment, you would throw in DUSK or whatever to show that you've reached that time when the climax is about to happen. It would be better than trying to decide between day or night and then putting dusk in the action.

It should be used very sparingly and only in great need, but if you have a scene happening outside at that specific time when the sun is sitting on the horizon, it would be appropriate.

Those are good examples.

Another that came to me, Dawn of the Dead (2004). When they were getting on the boat, Dawn would've probably been used because Michael said he'd be watching the sunrise.

Just another that came to me. =)

-Sean

Gotcha - thanks George.  

Prior to reading this, I had used Dusk in a slug, not necessarily for any specific reason (like the ones you mentioned above).  I guess I just felt that the Dusk slug added to the overall feel/mood I was shooting for.  Probably best to stick with Day or Night then unless there is a really specific need.

It's redundant to tell us what time of day it is, if you can show us what time of day it is.  Explain dusk to us in a visual way.  That's why "DAY" & "NIGHT" are the primary pegs we use.  It's a general time. If it's light, we assume it's day.  If it's dark, we assume it's night.  

All these can be applied unless you're script is in Alaska.

Then again...

While I understand that on film there is little difference between Day and Morning or Night and Dusk, before it gets to that stage, a person must first read the screenplay.  A reader is better apt to get the slight distinction and feel of those different times and it may make a difference in the overall reading of the script.  No?  

Quoted from Baltis. It's redundant to tell us what time of day it is, if you can show us what time of day it is.  Explain dusk to us in a visual way.  That's why "DAY" & "NIGHT" are the primary pegs we use.  It's a general time. If it's light, we assume it's day.  If it's dark, we assume it's night.   All these can be applied unless you're script is in Alaska.

Hey Balt, what would your opinion be on a scene where it's daytime, but dark out?

Would you put Night and explain that it's daytime, by showing a clock or something, or still put Day?

Quoted from Craiger6 Then again... While I understand that on film there is little difference between Day and Morning or Night and Dusk, before it gets to that stage, a person must first read the screenplay.  A reader is better apt to get the slight distinction and feel of those different times and it may make a difference in the overall reading of the script.  No?

Your job is to write visually... If we can't discern what time of day it is with how you set up your scenes and visually explain them, then I think you're going to have a hard time with anything you do in this business.

The sun hides behind a gradient curtain that will soon become night.

For example...

DAY and NIGHT are just indicators of what the scene looks like. These are about the only camera directions that exist in a spec. If it's technically "day" but it's dark out (as in "30 Days of Night"), then you write NIGHT. The script will indicate when stuff is happening. The slugs just tell us what we see. The script tells us what's really going on.

"If we can't discern what time of day it is with how you set up your scenes and visually explain them, then I think you're going to have a hard time with anything you do in this business."

Truer words may never have been spoken.  haha.

I use all kinds: DAY, NIGHT, MORNING, SUNRISE, DUSK etc.

For me, it adds to establishing the visual tone of the scene.

Quoted from Why One I use all kinds: DAY, NIGHT, MORNING, SUNRISE, DUSK etc. For me, it adds to establishing the visual tone of the scene.

That's what you do in the action paragraph. Not the sluglines...

The slugs can play a part.

Quoted from Why One The slugs can play a part.

Only to the reader... An audience isn't going to read your movie.  They're going to watch it.

Quoted from Why One No, but producers, managers, agents etc read your script.  For example -- from another Nicholl winning script: INT.  KITCHEN - MORNING Good Day New York plays on a small counter-top television. Bre, dressed for work, moves around the kitchen with a practiced efficiency - pouring coffee just in time to snag the toast that has just popped out of the toaster. No need to describe morning light through the window etc.  Throw MORNING in the slug and the scene is already carrying texture and tone -- something the audience will immediately see on first frame.  The writer can just get on with describing action.

You're going to argue no matter what I say, so go ahead on about your way.  If I don't opt out of this now you will keep bouncing the ping pong ball back across the table.  Yes, you "CAN" use DAWN, DUSK, MORNING, NOON, TWILIGHT, MIDNIGHT, BRUNCH, LUNCH and any other word to describe a specific time of day but being specific is a broad assessment when dealing with time and movie space.

Do you know how many times they use day for night in movies?  I use DAY or I use NIGHT.  I describe anything in between by eluding too or pointing too.  I'm not saying I'm right.... I'm saying I'm versed.

That's true Baltis and that's why production want to see if it takes place during NIGHT or DAY. For scheduling. Not for mood setting. That's what the action paragraphs are for.  And I say that with a smile because I'm not arguing.

I agree with Why One here.  We're talking about spec scripts, not shooting scripts.  Why not give sa much info as possible to your readers while taking up no additional space?  I see absolutely nothing wrong with noting more detail than simple day or night.  If your script runs in semi real time, it helps the reader understand this.

Keep in mind that spec scripts don't have the luxery of visual clues that make certain things obviuos in a filmed version.  I say give all the info you can in your slugs.  Why not?

All of you guys are correct to some extent.

It is fine to give a little extra detail as long as it has meaning to the story.

George's vampire at dawn is a great example.  There is a reason for this scene to occur at dawn, so it makes sense to "slug" it as such.

That scene is not going to be filmed at "day" or "night" -- that scene would be filmed, in fact, at "dawn".

But do so sparingly -- as it is easy to carry this to absurd lengths, like Balt's example of "brunch" haha.  There are plenty of examples of poor usage on these boards, and the scripts do suffer for it.

Nobody will ding you if your use is justified by the story.

But yes, you will turn off an experienced reader if your deviations from established conventions add nothing of substance.

Appreciate all the feedback.  I submitted the my first script the other day to SS and sure enough the first slug is DUSK.  Haha.  Well, live and learn.  Live and learn.  Thanks again all.

I personally use more than just 'DAY' and 'NIGHT'. In fact, I rarely use 'DAY' - I  use 'MORNING', 'AFTERNOON', 'EVENING'...

Why? Because, I think it helps you to better visualise a scene, particularly what's going on in the background. We can't write everything that's going on onscreen, but I get a sense of what might be happening from a time-specific slug. For instance, compare these two examples:

EXT. RESIDENTIAL STREET - EVENING

Tom crosses the road, mobile phone balanced on his shoulder, struggling to hold all his bags.

OR

EXT. RESIDENTIAL STREET - NIGHT

Tom crosses the road, mobile phone balanced on his shoulder, struggling to hold all his bags.

The only difference between those two words is the time in the slugline. But, to me, they present completely different settings. If Tom is on the street in the evening, he may have to look out for cars, there may be other people around...but if it's late at night, he might be in a deserted street, he might be careful not to be too loud. Both scenes would take place in the dark, which means it's certainly not 'DAY'. But if you don't imagine it as night, is it wrong to put 'EVENING'?

Now, I'm as amateur as they come; I've never had a single script produced (although someone has requested permission and committed to shooting Nothing Left to Say and has already started scouting for locations - hopefully that'll come through) and so I may well be wrong. But to me, it feels perfectly natural to write more than DAY and NIGHT, and I honestly think there is no problem with it at all. I'm certainly not going to pick you up on it, Craiger.

A quick question.  We all use therm slugline, yet I have seen instances where slugline is used as a separate term from Scene Heading.  What's being described in this thread would be called a Scene Heading, and slugline would be more or less what I have also heard called a 'shot', so to speak.

Here are the two relevant pages from a website called Story Sense.  

Scene Heading: http://www.storysense.com/format/headings.htm

Sluglines: http://www.storysense.com/format/slugs.htm

This site offers script analysis, and has a format guide as well.  They specifically state that a slugline is totally different than a Scene Heading.

Any thoughts on this?

Quoted from steven8 A quick question.  We all use therm slugline, yet I have seen instances where slugline is used as a separate term from Scene Heading.  What's being described in this thread would be called a Scene Heading, and slugline would be more or less what I have also heard called a 'shot', so to speak. Here are the two relevant pages from a website called Story Sense.   Scene Heading: http://www.storysense.com/format/headings.htm Sluglines: http://www.storysense.com/format/slugs.htm This site offers script analysis, and has a format guide as well.  They specifically state that a slugline is totally different than a Scene Heading. Any thoughts on this?

I usually call the

INT. HOUSE - NIGHT

lines, SCENE HEADERs... By and large, that's what they are.  

I usually call the

Empty, the house sits undisturbed.

Line, the action or slugs.  Depends, though.  Sometimes I feel like eating kit kats over Paydays... Somedays I even decide not to eat anything sweet at all.  Sometimes I even decide what not to wear the day before.

It's... Subjective. All of it. But if you fuck up I'm going to call you out on it...   >

But with that said, that website blows goat nips and porks chickens in the butt.

Quoted from Baltis. that website blows goat nips and porks chickens in the butt.

I never expected that to come out of your mouth.  

Quoted from Baltis. It's... Subjective. All of it.

Then I guess this discussion is officially over.

Interesting, Steven.  I think "we" use Slugs to include Scene Headings, as it's kind of understood what we're talking about.

The Slugs described in your attachment are not "full" Slugs, or Scene Headings, which is why they have their own page and description.  Just another way to use them, really.

I personally do not like writing Slugs this way.  I like formal, full Slugs (Scene Headings).  I think they provide more information, and there's no way to get confused what you're reading.

Quoted from Dreamscale Interesting, Steven.  I think "we" use Slugs to include Scene Headings, as it's kind of understood what we're talking about. The Slugs described in your attachment are not "full" Slugs, or Scene Headings, which is why they have their own page and description.  Just another way to use them, really. I personally do not like writing Slugs this way.  I like formal, full Slugs (Scene Headings).  I think they provide more information, and there's no way to get confused what you're reading.

That's what I thought.  That it would be confusing.  I think it makes more sense to call what they are calling a slugline a 'shot', because it's a shot within the scene.

Quoted from steven8 A quick question.  We all use therm slugline, yet I have seen instances where slugline is used as a separate term from Scene Heading.  What's being described in this thread would be called a Scene Heading, and slugline would be more or less what I have also heard called a 'shot', so to speak.

This would be a "you say tomAYto, I say tomAHto" kind of issue. For my experience, I've seen your scene headings called sluglines, and your sluglines referred to as secondary headings. As long as we know what we're talking about, we're good. Round here, INT. KITCHEN - DAY is a slug.

Quoted from Baltis. But with that said, that website blows goat nips and porks chickens in the butt.

And a hearty welcome back to the Balt we all know and love.

My take on format is as long as it is clear what is going on then less is more. Long headers bore the arse off readers, as does repetition.

If it's a classic vampire story it'd be daft not to use Dawn and Dusk in the headers. And in certain parts of the world there is a huge difference between morning, noon and dusk. Use your judgement and if it works keep it.

If you read enough produced scripts you will see all kinds of indicators used to described time.  Just the other day I read the script for X men, and the word EVENING was used.

I say follow your teachers whim inorder to get a good mark but don't listen to him because in the end it's your call.

Quoted Text If you read enough produced scripts you will see all kinds of indicators used to described time.  Just the other day I read the script for X men, and the word EVENING was used.

This is true for scripts that have already been optioned/sold and are currently in their next draft after being greenlit. Usually writers will be hired through pre-production to re-write several drafts that include actual notes from the Director and DP in them.

As a whole, 97% of your slugs should be "DAY" or "NIGHT." The other 3% can be used when it is absolutely vital for your story OR when using "DAY"  "NIGHT" may confuse the story. My opinion

Quoted Text I say follow your teachers whim inorder to get a good mark but don't listen to him because in the end it's your call

   Great advice!

EXT. (BUT NOT QUITE, KIND OF LIKE A PORTE-COCHERE) HOUSE (A BIG HOUSE, LIKE BILL GATES' HOUSE ON LAKE WASHINGTON) - ALMOST NIGHT, BUT WITH A FULL MOON, AND SOME STARS AND SHIT, MAYBE A PLANE GLIDING IN, AND A SATELLITE KIND OF DARK, WHERE YOU CAN SEE THEM BUT THE SUN STILL HASN'T COMPLETELY GONE DOWN YET, CASTING THE HAZE, YOU KNOW? WITH SOME COLORS TO TELL YOU WHAT KIND OF NIGHT IT IS. NOT LIKE PITCH BLACK NIGHT, OKAY?

BOB, a big clumsy idiot...

I'll have to say that despite the tongue in cheek humor here, this particular heading would be a perfect opening for a comedy about a screenwriter. I can totally see the words being typed on the screen as the scene fades in behind them. Seriously.

I think the fact that it's SO overdone makes it work. The writer knows he's screwing with you, so you don't take points off for it.

Quoted from George Willson I'll have to say that despite the tongue in cheek humor here, this particular heading would be a perfect opening for a comedy about a screenwriter. I can totally see the words being typed on the screen as the scene fades in behind them. Seriously. I think the fact that it's SO overdone makes it work. The writer knows he's screwing with you, so you don't take points off for it.

What tongue in cheek humor?  He just lifted that from one of my scripts. . . written in Celtx.