One of the ideas I currently have rolling about in my head has a fundamental flaw that is stopping me using it for my first feature and wanted to see what others though.

It is a romcom as such and the main character has a job that is pretty dark, and most certainly would not be liked by most women. Which for a romcom might be a problem of course, seen as the audience is likely to be 70% women. I have toyed with the idea of black comedy, but it does not really fit, at the moment at least, maybe once I have written a draft it may turn into one.

What are the thoughts in a protag that is not only unsympathetic but pretty much disliked by the films core audience? Anyone got any examples?

I am thinking about maybe John Cusack in that movie he made where he was an assassin, cast remember the name, was he unsympathetic to begin with? (My guy does not kill people, but to many he probably does worse).

Of course it is s romcom so he will have an arc which ends up with him turning into the good guy he always was inside blah.. blah...

Cheers  

Murph, I personally like writing flawed characters that many will not like.  As long as the character is entertaining, engaging, and interesting, I think such quirks add to his "character".

Many will disagree with this, but to me, it adds realism that you don't often see in movies.

A perfect example is my lead, Jack, in Unforgettable.  Most don't like him and call him a bad person because he cheats on his wife, drinks heavily, and snorts lines (among other things).

I don't think a lead character necessarily has to be likable in terms of what he or she does, as long as they are memorable, which to me, is the key.

Kiss me Deadly is a good example, great film as well.

Not sure the audience dislike him, but he's not a nice guy.

I remember watcin Reservoir Dogs in Salford when it just came out. Half the scallies in there hated Tim Roth. Personally I was on his and everyone else's side too.

Guy Pearce's character Lenny, in Memento is similar, he's kinda likeable but at the same time a crazy killer. As is Joe, JD.

The anti hero isn't easy to write. Humphrey Bogart used to talk about Pat The Dog, in order to get audiences to like you. Nobody mentioned above patted any dogs in those films.

One of my favourites... Alex in a Clockwork Orange. The ultimate anti hero.

Hope that does help.

R ox

I don't subscribe to the notion that protagonists have to be likable. After watching nearly the entirety of David Cronenberg's filmography, I've come to think they don't even have to be relatable, necessarily.

They do have to be interesting.

In regards to unsympathetic protagonists in particular, I think they're fair game. I'll sight American Psycho as an example (as it's one of my favorite films) but everybody does when it comes to the subject so I'll cite another of my favorites: Ichi the Killer.

In regards to the story, well... It might be better if you overlook this one. It's extremely convoluted. However in regards to the characters, this may be right up your alley. Kakihara and Ichi are two of the absolute most depraved and disturbed individuals in any fictional medium in the history of storytelling. Every single action, every single motive attributed to either of them is vile and debased in nature. But they're absolutely fascinating characters to watch. There's almost no limits to what they might do. Anything goes.

Check it out if you've got the stomach for it.

I'll also cite Cabin Fever.

I know a lot of people aren't too keen on Eli Roth around here. I wouldn't say I'm a particularly big fan myself. But I think Cabin Fever was a film that made unlikable characters work. Everything that happens in the story, all the disease, the horrific violence, happens because the characters are absolutely deplorable and things get increasingly worse with all of their morally askew actions. If the characters weren't so rotten, the whole situation with the homeless man wouldn't be nearly as big a deal (Ryder Strong acknowledges this himself in one of his interviews). There might not have even been a movie at all.

Hope this helps.

I can get very invested in unlikable characters, so long as they have drive.
The biggest jerk with goals he's attempting to achieve works fine for me.
Billy Bob Thornton in Bad Santa immediately springs to mind.
What I have a hard time getting into are aimless assclowns with no thrust.

Hitchcock said it best....
"Your movie is only as good as your villains."

Sometimes the protag seems to fill those shoes and I'm fine with that.
So long as the unlikable protag does some walking in those shoes.

E.D.

Your protag does not need to be likeable.  They just need to be so fascinating that we want to know what they will do next.  

Quoted from Just one cornetto Your protag does not need to be likeable.  They just need to be so fascinating that we want to know what they will do next.

Absolutely goddamn right. Never get off the boat. Oops, wrong thread.

They have to be like the rock star you can't look away from. Or the car crash you can't stop rubbernecking at. Make em watchable and Fascinating. Then they will watch. We hope.

R

When in doubt, just add Zombies.  Ask the slowly dissolving video game industry this.

Quoted from rendevous Humphrey Bogart used to talk about Pat The Dog, in order to get audiences to like you. Nobody mentioned above patted any dogs in those films.

Blake Snyder's Save the Cat was exactly the same thing, he talked about having a character save a cat in the first few pages. Never realised he ripped of Bogart.

Funny you should mention that however as on page two my main character kills a dog. I am working on a way to get a likeable side of him on display early.

Cheers for your responses folks.

My main worry is specifically whether it would work in a romcom. But have decided I am writing this story anyway, so if it doesn't work then so be it, I can only try.

I think a protag can be really bad, but they have to show some traits that we can relate to or like. IMHO, the worse a character is, the more he has to have some good parts in him/her too. If your guy is a really really vile guy maybe saving that dog instead of killing it might just do the trick.

The guy in Memento btw, he may not have been a nice guy, but his mission was to either clear his wife's name or find out who killed her...or something like that. Can't remember right now.    But I think that's key, they have to have some good decent traits that we can relate to no matter how bad they are.

I think you can have an unsympathetic protag as long as the audience identifies with him in some way.  Usually, protags like this have to ooze charisma, they can't just be plain mean and nasty.  There has to be a fairly complex psychology behind the character that we can understand and buy into.

The Save the cat mention is valid.  When you have an unsympathetic character that shows kindness in some small way, it makes him more believable and intriguing.

One example I can think of is Patrick Bateman in American Psycho.  At first, that movie did a good job of making him a repellant yet charismatic and, at times, funny and likeable character.  Everyone has had wild revenge fantasies, and this guy lives them.  But...the movie ruined it when Bateman stomped the dog to death.  That was a huge mistake IMO.  All likeability and identifying with Bateman went out the window.  Yes, there is something permissible about killing people in movies, but stomping an innocent dog to death?  No.  And, I don't know why they even put that in there because it was so unnecessary.  There's a similar scene later in the film where he's about to stuff a kitten into an ATM, but is stopped by a passerby.  A much more effective scene.  

You have to be careful between a protag and antihero here.

Both transform but in different ways. Both have different ends.

If it's a Romcom, the story structure you need to master is "merging." They start off polarised and then merge. Generally, both he and she are flawed in the beginning. See http://www.clickok.co.uk/index4.html

As long as the protag has some redeemable quality, I think the vast majority of the mainly female audience you envisage watching this will relate to him. Clean cut heros are not very interesting. People with flaws are. Not that this is a generalisation, but girls are attracted to guys who they think they can 'help' or 'fix'. So, I say be original and make him as complex as you dare, but give him sometype of redeeming quality.

Seems like everyone's in agreement that main characters don't have to be likable, but I notice almost all the movies noted are either action or horror, not romantic comedy.  I think that will be your biggest issue.
I think Pia had it right with mentioning the tragedy behind the protag in Memento.  I just watched Hell Ride, (a Tarantino production with bikers killing everyone) and one of the interviews the main actor/director said that he could get away with a lot more because his character was attempting to keep a promise to the love of his life who had been killed.  Just this one fact makes it a lot more acceptable in terms of him killing/f-ing everyone he can.

In terms of your movie, your guy has a nasty job... how did he end up there?  Maybe he was on his way to having a sweet life with a nice woman then she dumped him/died/whatever, and it messed him up.  That way he ends up being a bit off putting, but women can still sympathize and would watch him come out of that low spot with the new love/whatever your plot is.

Good luck with it.

Here's a thing I ain't heard yet. I know a lot of decent kind and good looking young lasses, not in the biblical sense, you understand. Not that way inclined.

I'm a teacher. Part time, voluntary. Etc.

Fact is, lotta of em a bad boy. I see perfectly decent young lasses hanging around with arseholes destined for jail, or gaol. Eejits I say. But the loins decide their own path. No matter what you say, they love that dickhead. If fact they love them more when you try and put them off. Especially when you're off limits.

The heart and the head are diiferent. You get that in a script proper and you got a winner.

Ren rests. Night all. I've gotta stop watching the wheels and listening to working class hero. For tonight at least. My candles are dead. As is my bottle. Barstard. Must be time for bed. RV out.

Rox

It's okay for the character to be unlikeable, so long as he has a saving grace.  Some examples:

Jack Nicholson, As Good as it Gets -- a total prick in every conceivable way -- but he's a humorous prick, and you see him catching himself in the act of being one and can sense his regret at his inability to control it.

Mel Gibson, Payback -- a brutal, ruthless thug -- but his drive and indominitable will, coupled with his obvious love for the Maria Bello character and the fact that despite being offered more he wants only what is due him, humanizes him.

Pulp Fiction is littered with despicable characters but Tarantino fits them with senses of humor, philosophies and certain contradicting moralities which make them interesting.

In Asian films are some of the most despicable and unlikeable characters you can imagine -- but Asian culture has one rule for their anti-heroes.  As long as the character is true to himself and does what he does because he absolutely believes it's called for, a character can literally get away with murder.  You have to juxtapose his outward ugliness with an inner strength, or, contrarily, some inner flaw beyond his control which explains why he is the way he is.  

Don't forget that you have to romanticise and fictionalise. That's what movie making is about. Take Braveheart - even Mel Gibsom said that the hero in reality was not a nice man, but he was romanticised and fictionalised for the sake of the movie. I agree with the earlier poster - is it a hero or antihero?