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On page 12 the old woman says 30 seconds again, several seconds later....
I still like the tradition of a FADE TO BLACK to end scripts. I love the finality of it.
Damn, this is quite devious. My kind of script. I cringed a couple of times while reading it. That doesn't happen to me often.
Aside from the couple of typos I pointed out, I found it very well written. Kept picturing Mrs. Ganush here from Drag Me To Hell.
SPOILERS!!!!
My only complaint would be that I would like a clearer motive behind the Old Woman's actions. I didn't get who the ancient gods were. I wanted to see who won the game, hoping it would culminate into something. Maybe these bar patrons have all wronged her at some point. The poison was just a drug, but got everyone to deform themselves by revenge. Then she could have a nice final line while exiting.
I did like the supernatural way you took this though. And, the bag flying into the tunnel was a nice ending visual that made sense.
A quick note on the genesis of this strange little piece. When I wrote Scottish Lullaby for the OWC, a common complaint was, "this isn't horror". So while that review process was still going on, I wrote this. I put it away unfinished, hoped I would think of a good ending for it. I didn't. So I just capped it pretty much as is!
You'll notice I even mentioned in some cases what cards people had. I was going to do more with that, then just didn't. I can always go back to it, but I didn't want to drag this out too long, and I sensed that's where it would go.
The bag at the end flies to a tunnel which is the connection to the next story in the series, coming soon to a theater near you.
Like I said, this was kind of written as a response, I just wanted to have a little fun with it. Hopefully it works for some people. If anyone has an ending idea, I'm game!
I really enjoyed this and thought it was very well done. It was certainly twisted and a real page turner for me. That said, I didn’t care for the ending. Not because it wasn’t well written, but I needed more. I suspect that others are going to tell you the same thing. Still it was a terrific read. I took some notes below as I was reading.
***SPOILERS***
“The old woman, smiling, walks to the table, opens her purse. A peak inside reveals a COPPER FLASK, CASH, and a large pile of SKELETAL HUMAN FINGERS.”
Hey-oh. I thought this was well done. I like the idea of a “peek” (s/b PEEK BTW) inside the purse with the camera. Also like the fact that you included such a grisly image. Obviously, we already had an idea that this lady was not a regular old lady, but now you’ve confirmed it.
P. 5 –
BOYD Medicine? The old woman flashes a smile of pure evil. OLD WOMAN Antidote.
Ha – I enjoyed this. Nicely done.
P. 7 - OLD WOMAN
I raise. One finger to call. Must be your own, of course.
Damn, this broad is hardcore!
P. 8
Dr Alastair slumps to the floor dead.
I’m not sure if you explain this later, but my initial thoughts while reading are that you might have to explain why Dr. Alastair dies so quickly while the others don’t. I don’t know, it’s probably not intregal to the story, but it immediately popped into my head. I think the Old Woman said they had roughly a half hour, so why does he kick the bucket so quick?
P. 12
GORDON
I would play, woman, if I were you. It is not my intention to use my antidote to save your fat arse.
Haha – dick!
P. 13
“Rhona sobs a moment, then stifles herself.”
I know you Irish are tough, but everyone seems to be handling this pretty well. I think I would mix up the characters reactions to their predicament a bit. By that I mina, maybe someone sobs uncontrollable or just can’t handle the pain. I dunno, just a thought.
P. 14
“All at ounce, do not wait for the others.”
I believe this should be “All at ONCE…”
P. 14
“She rolls the eye into the pot.”
That’s kicking it up a notch! Haha.
P. 15
“A HOWLING wind whips rain torrents on the deserted, broken street. A freight train SCHREECHES like an angry animal as it runs the tracks across from the Deidre. SCREAMS of pain leech through the pub door and join the cacophony.”
Nice job here. Love the imagery.
P. 16
“The bag blows to a gate of iron bars, snags there. The bars block the entrance to an old sewer tunnel. The bag whistles as it blows against the bars, seeking entry to the tunnel.”
Again, love the imagery here, but can’t help but feel a little let down with this ending. I’m glad that you didn’t put a “Fade Out” and “The End” cause’ I really think you should expand this just a little bit to give the audience some closure.
Yeah, so as I said, I really enjoyed this, but I think you ultimately need to give us some more closure. I realize that you wan't to keep your Old Woman mysterious, but as James said, you need to give us a little insight into her motives. Maybe also give her a name.
Anyway, thanks for the read, man. Hoep this helps.
Thanks Craig. You are probably right about the ending, so I'm waiting for an idea! Anyone? But as it is, I try to leave a lasting image about a horrible after hours card gamer.
Dr Alastair would have probably been fine had he not tried to flee. The combination of the stress from the poison and from trying to move caused his heart to fail. I had to do this to ratchet up the seriousness needed to get people to play the game.Not sure if I succeeded in that, but that's why the Dr died. And because he was annoying!
One of the points of the story too is how the predicament changes some of their behavior. Gordon is a dick to his wife, but this evolves by the end.
You might be right about the sobbing, but that it would be annoying if there's too much of that. As it is, there is some, and some swearing, and when they do the eyes, the camera hears screams outside. Best I could do.
Thanks for the read, and remember: don't take any free shots from old ladies!
I liked this one. Sort of like Rounders meets Saw meets Drag me to Hell. That's what I call a bloody serious game of poker.
As soon as the old hag whipped out her flask, I assumed it was poison. In this day and age, I'm not sure anyone would take a belt from a complete stranger's flask, especially one that had old lady lips on it. But, they were a few rounds into the game at that point and I guess no one wanted to look like a wuss by declining a shot, so I can believe that part.
On page 2, since we're in Scotland, shouldn't it be a hundred pounds to buy in and not dollars?
Unless I missed it, on page 4, Dr. Alistair deals the hand but you never tell us what the flop was. You do reveal the turn card later is the Queen of spades, and you also reveal the hands of a couple of players. But, you never really used the cards as a device to create tension. I know not everyone understands the rules to hold em, but I think you could really use the cards to ratchet up the fear in the room. Like who's bluffing and who's not.
One thing, and this is just IMO, but this poker game might be slightly overpopulated for a short script. Seven players. You have to burn through a lot of pages trying to get reactions from every single player. Seems like Boyd and Irish could be combined into one guy. Maybe lose either Rhona or Fenella. I just think that if it were, say three or four players, along with the old bag, you might be able to concentrate on developing those characters more and conserve space as you drive for the ending.
Between this script and those challenge scripts from last week, been seeing a lot of scooped out eyeballs round here. Nice.
So, this script is in need of an ending. I know what you were going for with the bag blowing in the wind, but that had an "American Beauty" feel to me and just didn't feel right for this grisly little piece. I'd definitely show what the river card was and let the winner and owner get their antidotes and then maybe work some twist off of that. If I think up a sick twist I'll let you know.
It's a very entertaining script and had a great flow to it. I just think it could be tightened in those parts I mentioned and it deserves a better ending. So great job with this one.
PG 2 - You say a hundred dollar buy in but the story takes place in Scotland where the currency is pounds.
PG 13 - Rhona takes getting her finger chopped quite well doesn't she?
Most of my comments have already been said. The ending seems incredibly rushed and anti-climatic. Another thing to point out is some of the Pagan stuff could come across quite cheesy. I am a Scottish Pagan myself.
Overall it was a good read and sounds pretty gory!
Yeah, pounds not dollars! I missed that. Sorry UK people!
Everyone's right about the ending. In need of ideas. I couldn't think of anything I liked. And it has to be something that would allow me to keep this no more than 20.
Ryan knows his cards! Yes, there are three community cards in Holdem. So in this story, I guess the old woman just turns the last without another raise. I started out with the plan of making the cards relevant and just didn't have the space.
Holdem should have 6 players ideally. This had seven, but Dr Alastair dies. I had a purpose for the other characters, so I couldn't kill them. Rhona is shit on by her husband, but this changes as through the brutality of the game. He sees her hand before cutting the finger, starts to remember it fondly. By the end of the game he has his arm around her. Fenella showcases the selflessness of Brian, despite her not appreciating it. Possibly Irish and Boyd could be combined, but they're two different characters and I kind of like them.
I think the biggest issue with this script, one no one has mentioned, perhaps just being nice, is whether it's in any way believable that enough pressure was created to make these people cut off their own fingers, take out an eye. If not, the story fails hopelessly. If one can suspend disbelief enough to accept this, then it has a chance.
If I could not get people to buy into that, no sense working on fixing the rest. But if that is acceptable on the whole, then maybe it makes sense to fix the rest. The main thing for me is to learn what works and doesn't generally since I'm a new writer. So I posted! And thanks for the honest feedback.
I think the fact that no one cut off their finger until page 9 helped with the credibility in that. Plus, they already saw the doctor die, so they knew the old witch wasn't bluffing.
I would suggest "upping the ante" though when it comes to gouging out the eyes. And this could be a way to dispose of some of your players to thin out the cast. Have a few more people drop dead from the poison. This would certainly make things more urgent. I think if by the final reveal of the river there were only three or so people left alive it would make things far more dramatic.
The old lady is a major character and deserves a name.
I had a hard time believing the people would self-mutilate with out more threat than one guy dropping over dead. A body or two along the way would help.
The ancient gods like Texas Hold Em?
The old lady talked a lot but could have said or done a few things to add some quirkiness to her character. I thought she needed something more.
Why did she pick this bar?
Can the shadow man take people only if they're poisoned?
The people's decision to injure themselves so badly did stretch credibility to some degree. The death helps to ease misgivings over that (perhaps it would help if the death was more gruesome as well). It would also perhaps help to see someone test the futility of attacking her at some point. When someone got desperate, I'm sure they'd have a go at overpowering her.
As for the ending. Have you ever heard it said that if you can't find the right ending, the problem is usually the beginning?
Well you have now anyway. The essential problem I think is demonstrated by looking at why she's doing this:
She's come in to get a sacrifice for Old Gods...but why go through this rigmarole of a poker game...why not just let them die?
What is the game of poker itself supposed to reveal about the inner characters of the players? Who is it that the Gods would want as the sacrifice? What would that person represent? What does that tell us about the human condition?
There are different ways of playing poker. There are the bluffers (liars?), the aggressive bulliers of the pot, conservative players, etc. Each represents a philosophy on life if you will. The person who wins should be the person who plays the game right, rather than them all being forced to play the same way IMO....so maybe more than one hand can be played and also...it doesn't have to be your own fingers that you play with.
So the person who "wins" the game of poker, may not be the winner in the real game here, which is kind of a fight for their soul.
EG: The bar owner, realising he loves his wife, proposes a raise that the woman willl have to follow....his heart. His wife is on his right which means that everyone else will die save for his wife.
Or kills himself that that the person preceding the woman can raise his whole body, which means she would have to die to continue.
Within that there are a few choices eg it works. Or his very suggestion results in the end of the game...he's passed the test somehow.
Downbeat: An aggressive, self-cented player wins the game. The manner of his victory in some way leaves him cursed and foreced to assume the role of the woman somehow or something like that, constantly forced to gamble his body for all eternity. Or he wins, but then the Shadow buys into the game...making some sort of point of the futility of his way of playing.
Hopefully there's somethign in there that can inspire a few neurons anyway...
The Why: Why did she pick this bar? What does she want? What do the Gods want?
The old woman spells out much of this in her last statement:
One more card. Who lives and who dies, all in the hands of the gods! As always, they are grateful for your having played
Basically, as with the gods of the Greeks, we are here for their amusement. How far will we go to save our skin? What can we be made to do? They enjoy playing with us. And in this case, these are neglected gods, so they are jealous and vindictive. That is why she, and they, play the game. Dark entertainment for immortal beings.
Those suggestions are all good, Rick, and I considered many similar things when writing. I was actually setting up for it. The problem was that I realized to execute that I would need to make this a 40 pager, and I didn't think it was worth it. So I decided that it was not such a bad thing to leave people with the impression of a brutal, evil poker game taking place after hours in a dark little dive bar in a bleak neighborhood in Scotland. Sometimes it's not a bad thing to leave people wondering how things resolve. Have you ever seen a movie where they tie everything together in the end, but it almost seems like it would have been better if they had not? If someday, someone driving late at night by a closed pub thinks of this story, then I've accomplished something.
I like thematic stuff, but there's no real moral to this one. We see some character development and revelation. Irish regrets the way he's lived his life. Boyd remains cocky, but it drives him mad. Fenella is a player to the end. And she's the hottie, we need one of them! Brian's the good guy willing to sacrifice for his love. Gordon rediscovers his affection for his wife. It makes the audience ask: could you cut the finger off of a loved one to save their life?
You guys have given great feedback and food for thought. Unless someone ever approaches me about filming, I'll probably just leave it as is. It was a fun piece to do, and in my mind now, that little pub called Deidre's really exists. I might stop in for a pint some day!
Congrats! Actually, liked this one considerably more than Scottish Lullaby.
Why? Well, because it was a much more clean-cut story.. . I know you like to keep things vague and mysterious in your plot lines - and I'm not saying that an interest in subtlety is a bad thing. But this one offered the best of both.
You don't speak out black-and-white what the old woman is. But neither is anything in question, regarding what's going on. Another plus: it's painful, gory and effective...without resorting to the usual slasher porn that passes for much of horror these days.
Kudos!
If I wanted to nitpick *anything*, I'd simply say that the ending was a tad too vague and visual. Strip one or two lines (while keeping the same feel) and leave it at that.
I haven't read Scottish Lullaby, but it doesn't really seem like I had to. I was able to follow along with the story just fine, but if any of my critiques stem from not having read the previous short, please let me know.
I was excited to read this for two reasons: 1) I like stories that center around poker, and 2) I've been itching to read something of yours seeing as you do so much reading on the boards.
At first, I wasn't really on-board with the story. The characters seemed kind of off for some reason. When someone writes an Irish character (or some other dialect), I usually give pause to lines like Might I just have a wee bit of whiskey to warm me bones.. Now, is this actually how people talk, or have I just been inundated with movies and TV that tell me this is how they talk? I don't know. Because of that, most of the OLD WOMAN'S dialogue fell kind of flat for me.
THAT BEING SAID
Once the story kicked into high gear with the introduction of the poison/antidote, my interest severely piqued. It was such an intriguing premise and when you upped the ante (heh.) with the finger cutting stuff, that's when I started to really like the story.
NOW, THAT BEING SAID
I started to realize, as the people started dying and the wages started rising, I didn't really care about any of the characters. After all, they had all been introduced so quickly (in one line one page 2). Sure, the stakes were awesome, but I didn't have anyone to root for. They were all just a bunch of low-lifes, and it became apparent very early on that I didn't care about any of them.
Don't take all of this to mean that I hated the script, because I didn't. I just think it could be tightened up (drastically shortened, actually. Maybe even lose some characters, because the cutting the fingers thing goes on way too long), and given a little more depth. But who knows, I might be in the minority, because others seemed to enjoy it quite a bit. Those are just my two cents.
Janet, not sure which part of the ending you are referring to. If you are referring to the bag blowing in the wind, it is a little out of place, but there's a reason for it. I have a third part to this series of stories that uses the same setting, and the tunnel the bag blows to has relevance, so I wanted to connect to it. Actually, the tunnel also connects to Lullaby too, if you recall.
If you're referring to how the game ends, which we don't see, I am open to resolving this at some future point, and welcome any idea you might have, so fire away if you think of any. But I don't think it's necessarily a problem leaving the ending as is. When all is said and done, there will be three, maybe four, little shorts that are independent stories, but take place in the same setting as Lullaby. Now I may not be a good enough writer to pull this off yet, but the goal is to create a little world, the blighted neighborhood called "the Hills", which as far as I know is imaginary, that leaves a lasting, spooky impression. I am hoping the cumulative effect of the stories achieves that.
Some of these stories will be more thematic then others. This one is not very thematic. So for me it just serves to help flesh out this little imaginary Glasgow world.
Matthew, true, this story is independent of Lullaby, so need to read SL to understand. The old woman is a central character in both, but they stand apart. And as it is, they are very different stories. Lullaby is very cryptic and thematic and few understood it. This was an attempt at more straight horror.
Let's talk about dialogue. First, I am really surprised that a few seem to think these people are all Irish. It takes place in Glasgow, but that is probably not indicated. In any case, one character is called Irish, which indicates that the one place this story cannot be is in Ireland.
But your point is well taken, and as a new writer learning how to handle a wide range of issues, this might be the top of my list, and to be honest, I'm not seeing consistent advice on SS as far as how to handle it. So I'm a little stuck. If you don't put dialect in the language, people call them flat. If you do, they call them cliche. That's been the general gist of the argument. In this case, you called them both flat AND cliche. So I am definitely stuck on how to approach.
I actually think cliche is a word or a criticism that is not well applied generally in reviews on SS. For example, if one writes a baseball movie, and there's a dramatic home run, at least half the reviews will criticize it as cliche. I'm tempted to do that just to prove it. But a baseball movie without a dramatic home run is like a love story without a kiss. It just goes together.
Now this lady is not only Scottish, but old. It seems very conceivable that she would talk that way. Is it cliche? Well, if I make that dialect sound authentic, isn't that automatically going to be cliche? You will notice that I didn't overdo that dialect, and as Irish is young, I didn't weigh him down with a heavy brogue.
You bring up some other interesting general points, Matthew. For example the idea that there might be too many characters, and how to introduce them. I actually posted a few weeks ago asking for opinions on how best to do this. If we're going to limit how many characters we have in a script, man, we're really limiting what can be done in film. No baseball or football movies, only boxing; warfare movies will have to limited, since we can't have a patrol with more than a few characters; and a card game can only have a few players.
Of course it is difficult to connect an audience to characters in general. And the fewer the characters, the easier the task. In this story, there is no real protagonist, so that really hurts. But they're all lowlifes? Hmm. Brian is more concerned about his girlfriend, and has made clear he will give his antidote to her. Not sure why he deserves to be called a lowlife. Irish is polite, and by the end of the story regrets the way he has lived. But, this is an after hours card game in a seedy bar in a blighted neighborhood. I would not be expecting Ward and June Cleaver.
Again, thank you very much for the read. I hope I don't sound too defensive. To me, the biggest problem I thought people would have with this is whether sufficient pressure was created to cause the players to do what they did. And I knew the lack of resolution would be a problem. Sometimes some of the other criticisms, such as flat dialogue, I see so often in pretty much every review on SS that the criticism itself is almost becoming cliche to me.
I will take all of your advice to heart Matthew, and hopefully do better in future scripts. This was my second short, so hopefully there will be a growth curve, especially on dialogue. And remember: if you're ever in Glasgow, stay away from after hours card games!
Holy shit! The scariest part of this story for me is the house raking in 10% of every pot! A $100 buy-in with 7 people, average pot-size'll be $30-$50. With $3-$5 raked out for the house every hand, it wouldn't take long for everyone to go broke and the house to end up with all the money. Gordon's got a good thing going on here for himself. These people get what they deserve for even WANTING to play those stakes.
Actually, if I WERE involved in this hand, I would have folded and died. I would've seen Boyd's confidence and knew that I was beat. As a proud poker player, knowing that I made the right decision in the hand and dying is still better to me than having to suck out on the river to live. (Not that I won't take those suck outs when they do go my way. )
Actually, I enjoyed 'Scottish Lullaby' a little bit better than this one, and I think 'Lullaby' scored a little bit higher on the creepiness chart, too.
By that, I'm not saying I didn't like this or didn't enjoy it, but I found it humorous and caught myself laughing when they were chopping off their fingers and digging out their eyes, which I'm not too sure if that was your intent or not.
Actually, I might've laughed because a couple years ago, I came across a short story in Weird Tales (I think it was Weird Tales) magazine that was a lot like this (people playing poker with their body parts) and it had a humorous spin on it (but the same gore). And in no way am I implying that you stole the story, either.
'Know When To Hold Em' read very brisk and clean. Kudos on that and the formatting. Your descriptions and formatting weren't obtrusive at all, at least nothing that bothered me.
Most of the dialogue was good and pressed the story onward, although there are a couple examples that read a little awkward and too on the nose. "I'd like to thank you good folk for sharing your company on this special occasion, the day of my birth" is one example that was awkward for me. "It gives me great pleasure to share this elixir with you" is another. Most of the dialogue was good, but there are a few other lines like that that just didn't ring right in my ears.
Ugh! It sucks there wasn't an ending for this one. Usually I rip people a new one for ending things like that, but I'll let you slide on it since I see you weren't sure and want some help with how to end it. I don't have any ideas right off the bat with it, but what Jwent suggested is the route I probably would've gone with.
So this one (minus a few dialogue bits here and there) was very well written, I think. You seem to be a pretty strong writer considering how new you said you were to it.
Like I said, I enjoyed 'Scottish Lullaby' a little bit better than this one, (I see a lot of people like this one better), but I still enjoyed it. I would've really enjoyed a great ending to it, though.
Thanks Mark, your review was not only helpful, but entertaining! So you would have folded huh? Come on man, Boyd could have been bluffing! And you had nothing to lose! But, I guess if you're a true card player, and it sounds like you know your cards, maybe you would fold on principle. Actually, I like that! If I do a rewrite maybe I will add that to a character. Someone who folds and accepts death on principle...as a card player.
You're right about those dialogue lines. Those were added in at the end in an attempt to clarify things. Funny how late add ins always stick out and sound extra bad.
Thanks on the writing, I'm trying. This was my second short written, and I had to go back and correct some writing that I've since learned how to do more effectively with the help and criticism of people like Jeff and Janet. Hopefully things will keep improving, especially in Dialogue where I struggle the most it seems.
Was this meant to be humorous or serious? More serious, I guess. But it was meant to be over the top. It was a reaction to criticism in Lullaby that it wasn't horror.
Hey Kevin. Figured I might as well check this one out.
I liked it better than Scottish Lullaby. No cliche creepy kid. More cliche creepy old lady... but those are always fun. Old ladies are creepier more often than they're cheesy, even if the overall work sucks... which yours doesn't so you're off to a good start with me.
Anyway, I liked the build up. The foreshadowing was a little too much here as well but less so than your companion piece. The bones were a nice touch. Visual subtext tends to work better than on the nose dialogue, obviously.
I liked the set up. I like cards. A card game facilitates intensity regardless of genre so for a horror, it's definitely an interesting plot device.
I think the overall work was more or less effective. Surprisingly, what made it less effective was the gore. I'm a lover of gore in the right circumstances. In this case, I felt the story would've been better off taking the suspense route. The blood, or rather emphasis on the blood, took away from the suspense and upped the cheesy factor. Maybe this is what you were going for and it will work for a lot of people so again, this is a matter of taste. You need not even change the outcome of events. I would've preferred you'd stuck to atmosphere rather than carnage.
OK, Kevin, just found this, as I’ve been reading some shorts today (and not writing, like I should have been doing). I took notes as I read, so those will be the main part of this feedback.
Your writing is getting better, IMO, but you’re still doing a number of things that I bet you’ll stop soon, once you “see” things in a different light. Over-describing, or maybe incorrectly describing at the wrong time is a big issue, IMO. I’m all for visual writing in every way, but some things actually detract, while others never come into play. It’s a weeding out process and once you’re there, then damnit, you’ll be there!
Biggest issue is the lack of an ending. You just can’t do this type of thing, especially when the entire script is devoted to who will live…and how will they live. It’s the fastest way to piss off your audience, and again, you just literally cannot do this type of thing.
Rick had some good points, and I want to expand on them. Poker is a game of personality. No one had any personality here and no one played poker here. They all just seemed to follow along and fuck themselves up, while not even trying to do anything to save themselves, which completely kills the premise of a poker game to the death, and what that could have been, based on who each individual was.
Hope this helps, bro.
Page 1 – If you want your viewers to “know” the pub’s in Glasgow, Scotland, you’ll want to use a SUPER. If it doesn’t matter, you don’t need to include it in your Slug.
“a bull of a man” – I’ve seen this description from you numerous times, Kevin. I think you’re trying too hard to visually describe all your characters, all the time. Sometimes, simple is best.
“The door blows open and with a powerful gust of wind enters an OLD WOMAN, 70s, wet and chilled, in a black hooded coat.” – Awkwardly phrased, IMO.
Page 2 – The House gets 10% of each and every pot with a $100 buy in? I don’t think that makes sense, does it? Dollars should be Pounds, most likely, I think.
Your next Slug should be a Mini Slug – “LATER”
I know we discussed a description like this awhile back, but Imo, this doesn’t work as written.
Page 3 – “The game is Texas Hold Em.” – You’re telling us this…you need to show it in action or dialogue.
“The last card is turned giving Fenella, a petite girl with a street hardened personality and dangerous good looks, the hand and the chips.” – This is 1 of those descriptions I was mentioning to you in your Showdown script that gave you away as the writer and made the read a slough, IMO. First of all, when “she was first intro’d I doubt anyone would know she’s a female (in the written form). IMO, there’s just too much description here that is tough, or maybe impossible to get from a single shot of her. Personally, I’d try and lose this type of stuff and focus your description more on how they act and what they say.
Page 4 – “Rhona, a plump woman in too much makeup, has already knocked down quite a few tonight.” – Another tell tale give away that you are the writer here. Again, we’ve already seen her briefly, but now, you decide to properly intro her, but you’re once again giving away too much, IMO.
“The shot glasses have been passed around.” – You know this is a passive line and not something you really want in a script.
“Dr Alastair, impeccably attired, his proper English crafted from the finer schools,…” – And again, way over the top here…unfilmable all the around with the “crafted from the finer schools” but more importantly, he hasn’t spoken yet, so it’s a wasted line and a case of an aside of you telling us something we don’t need to know.
Page 7 – “All now struggle with discomfit from the poison.” – A typo with “discomfit” but the entire line is awkward.
Great and shocking visual with the old woman biting off her finger! WOW!
Not sure I buy this now with them having to cut off their fingers, or that any would not just attempt to attack her, but hey, suspension of disbelief, right? OK, let’s see where we go…
Page 9 – “Boyd is struggling…” – “Boyd struggles…”
General note – I think the finger cutting scene goes on too long, as it loses its power the longer it continues. I also think the dialogue and reactions from each (after they’ve removed their finger) is unrealistic, and again, it causes the entire powerful scene to lose steam.
Page 12 – “It’s power grows.” – “Its power grows.” – No apostrophe here.
Page 14 – OK, for me, the plucking out of the eyeballs is a bit much, and over the top. It’s gone on way too long now and the shock value is long gone.
And no ending? Kevin…c’mon, man. You’re killing me here…
Thanks as always. The learning process certainly continues. As you know, the learning process for me really started during the Feb OWC here. This story was written at that time, in reply to the criticism Lullaby wasn't horror. I wrote it in a few days, then put it away. When I came back to it, I fixed up the writing as best I could.
Ypu may recall I posted several weeks ago asking for advice on introducing several characters to a scene. The script I was working on had a military unit on patrol with five guys and a couple of guides. I also had this script in mind. And the problem was this: if you just line up all of your characters and describe them, it's too much for people to absorb, since there's no action with them yet. But neither do you want to introduce them too separately, because it seems like they're just popping in.
And this is one of those areas I have discussed with you that I think screen rules have become so rigid that they paint one into an impossible corner. So I walked a middle road. I introduced a few people before the game started. Then I listed all the players in the game, including those that had not been introduced. The ones who had not been introduced with description, I waited until there was a relevant action before adding that description.
Let me address the descriptions. Let's take Fenella. That's a one line description: "a petite girl with a street hardened personality and dangerous good looks". So not a lot of space used. It's used in a sentence with an action on her part, which makes it easier to remember. Now, I could have applied that description earlier, when I listed her character. But as I said, I didn't want to line up all these characters and just describe that way. I am convinced that doesn't work.
So I'm really not sure what I would change there. Perhaps I could remove the word dangerous? I mean it's a short description as it is. 3 elements: petite, street hardened, and good looks. 2 of those elements can not be shown in action. Street hardened is perhaps something that could be shown in action, and is, but the sooner you get people to fill out the image in their minds the better.
If we didn't know Fenella is a girl, perhaps I need to change her name?
Bottom line, with this particular example, I don't think it can be improved, for the reasons I've listed.
Same with the Rhona description. 3 elements: plump, too much makeup, and half drunk. One line. Now I chose to go with "has already knocked down quite a few tonight", maybe half drunk would be better, I just didn't like the sound of it. I really don't think those 3 elements are over description. And again, the description comes after her character intro for the reason discussed above. It seems clunky only because you are not used to seeing description after the character is introduced. But it would have been far clunkier to use that description earlier, as noted.
"Dr Alastair, impeccably attired, his proper English crafted from the finer schools"--This one possibly too strong, but not really unfilmable. I am saying he has a "refined, proper English accent". Since the Dr's main purpose is to die early, most description of him could be done away with.
As far as the passive writing, well, it takes practice, I am getting better as I go, but I don't always catch them all. Usually I find one that I missed with each reread.
I hope you understood why they didn't jump her. She had that covered. The only antidote was in glass vials in her hands. Of course, if one had a bad hand, one might take the chance that she was lying and had more antidote on her. This was the toughest part of the story to make work.
The story has its limitations. I had a lot of stuff that I was already working on, so I didn't want to make this my life's work. I thought it was a fun little one to post, see what the reaction is. The only endings I worked out in my mind were going to take too long, so I figured I'd wrap it up. It was a crazy game of poker(OAR).
As always, thank you for the thoughtful read and comments. I will absorb and implement what I can for future scripts, you know that. I am not convinced there was a better way to do these character descriptions. These are supposed to be blueprints, are they not? Hopefully this will not discourage you from reading any other work I post, especially shorts with multiple chars!
My next story: the starting line up of the Lakers, in an after hours poker game, watch(ing) the Celtics on TV in the NBA finals. Yeah, ing!
HaHa...yeah, I'm quite embarrassed with my Lakers. Pitiful!
No, your writing is fine, man. It really is.
As for these character descriptions, you know you're going to hear alot of different viewpoints, but the point I want to make is this....
If a character's physical looks (in any way) do not come into play in any way, then every descriptive word you use is a waste. You are not in charge of casting your script. You've got...what...9 characters here in a 16 page short, right? As far as I'm concerned, the only one that needs a physical description is the old lady, as she's your main character and her age and looks do come into play. Yet, you didn't name here for some reason.
The others...it doesn't matter if one is a bull, mountain, or bear of a man, because he doesn't do anything at all. It doesn't matter if Fellena is a good looking chick, an ugly chick, street-wise, street stupid, or a nurse. She doesn't do or say anything that draws upon that. The proper speaking guy...who cares? You can use a wrylie to show how he speaks when he first speaks, but if you tell us how he speaks before he actually speaks, that's a mistake. The fat arse lady who is already bombed...if she's bombed, then let us "see" that by how she speaks or acts, not by you telling us.
That's what I'm trying to say.
Also, this shouldn't be a 16 page script, IMO. Not enough going on to hold up for 15+ minutes (general rule of thumb, only, of course).
Not trying to be an ass, as you know. Just trying to help.
I was liking it early on but without any payoff whatsoever, it feels like I just paid $300 for a hot call girl in Vegas, finally got her out of the bar and up to my room, and when it came time to get it on, she told me it would be another $300 and she had to leave anyway, but would call later.
I was thinking about it and I realized your story adds a whole new meaning to a 'chopped pot'.
(I wish I would have thought of that when I first posted.)
Yeah, I play a ton of poker (not so much online anymore because American citizens aren't allowed to play with real money as of last week). In fact, poker's the reason why I did almost zero writing from age 19-27.
So you would have folded huh? Come on man, Boyd could have been bluffing!
Well, even though I've played a lot of poker and some ridiculously high stakes, I've never played for life and death, so I'm not really speaking out of experience; but I think bluffing would be a REALLY bad idea when your life's at stake and you know everyone's going to call anyway.
It was a reaction to criticism in Lullaby that it wasn't horror.
Oh yeah, I meant to say something about that before, too. I still say 'Scottish Lullaby' still has enough horror elements to label it a horror. Them folks is crazy.
You know I appreciate the help. You know I almost always listen to it. And even when I argue it, later, when no one's looking, I usually implement it.
So I'll take all this with me to the next script. Unless someone with access to a bar and an old lady decides to film this, I probably won't come back to it with rewrites. I don't want to bother Don! He's been posting new scripts like a mad man lately.
This would definitely hold for 15 min, but like you said in the first post, I think the problem would be declining interest. That's actually I wrapped it up.
My initial idea with Gordan(owner) was that the old lady would promise him an antidote to keep the peace, and that he would have a gun to do so. Of course, the problem with that is he would just shoot the old woman.
So I had technical things I couldn't solve. That included the ending unfortunately. Sorry. I owe you a hooker! Or as Var would say, a real hooker.
I very much enjoyed the premise of your script. This reminded me of one of my favorite episodes of "Tales from the Crypt". It's called "Cutting Cards" and stars Lance Henriksen & Kevin Tighe. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0716836/ Jeff described in fine detail the technical aspects that dragged the read some.
I think less gore and more poker strategy is the way to go with future drafts. I was disappointed no one ever raised the old lady (whom needs a name). They didn't seem like very good poker players. Missed opportunity to raise the stakes.
I was very suspicious of the flask, because she bought a drink when she came in. Allow me a flight of fancy on where this story could go...
I'd rather she come in to warm herself by the fire. She's soaked and dirty, saying she slipped in the muck. No one's going to turn her away for a few minutes. She joins in and offers all a drink for their hospitality. They're suspicious. But the old biddy drinks first, so they think nothing of it and share in the toast. What they don't know is there's another reason why she's all dirty. She climbed out of a grave to seek vengeance on those that murdered her grandson. They murdered the boy for his winnings and now it's time to ante up. She's an alchemy expert risen from the dead to stake a claim on the unjust.
Or something like that, I haven't had my morning coffee, so it is what it is. Take it for what it's worth. Wait a minute, I don't drink coffee.
Good work, I look forward to seeing where you take this grisly tale.
Keep writing and rewriting with the fingers you've got left!
Regards, E.D.
LATEST NEWS CineVita Films is producing a short based on my new feature!
E.D. no coffee? You must be a drinker at least. I thought all writers were either drinkers, caffeine addicts, or both.
Thanks for the read and the suggestions. I've never seen the story above from Tales. Someone else posted they had seen something similar, I think in a short story. I can only tell you I have not seen these things. I really don't see a lot of TV or movies. Up until the last year, I've never been home at night, and now I write at night. But, if it looks like I am recycling ideas, maybe that means I'm on the right track.
I gave this to someone to read before I posted, and he questioned whether they would drink from her flask, and why she would buy whiskey as well. She buys the whiskey because it gains her access. As indicated in the dialogue, Gordon is a selfish guy and only allowed her to stay because she spends money. Why buy whiskey when you have a flask? Well, first of all, as we find out, she has other reasons for being here. But even had the horror part never happened, what she wanted would have been warmth and company on a miserable night.
As someone who has spent most of my life in a bar, I can say with confidence that the after hours crew would not turn down her shot. And they do watch her drink first. Does the reader suspect poison? Of course. They know this is a horror story. And they've seen the fingers in her purse.
This is not meant to be a very thematic story. She is acting on behalf of jealous and neglected gods, who look to men for their entertainment, as did Greek gods. I've used the same setting that was created in the OWC short, and this was just an attempt to create something more of a horror nature.
I am surprised a lot of people need a name from the old woman. I must admit I don't at all understand the importance. Giving her a name is almost a distraction. It means I have to use more dialogue space, with no gain that I can see.
Your grave idea is cool. And I understand you are trying to give a more definable reason for the woman's actions. Normally I prefer to have such definition in shorts I read as well. In this case I can't use, because the old woman is a character in Lullaby, the companion to this.
I was content to just try to paint the image of a horrible game of poker. I think it might make sense as others have said to reduce characters and shorten the round, which will allow more room to make the cards relevant, and maybe have a real ending.
Thanks as always E.D. for the quality read. Maybe I will revisit this someday. For now, got a bunch of other stuff to work on.
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Know When to Hold Em: Companion to Scottish Lullab
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