Quoted from DustinBowcot I'm not forcing anything... you obviously lack the capability to empathise. That doesn't make it melodrama.

I lack the ability (not capability; check your usage notes) to empathize because I think your portrayal of emotions in the first three pages of your script are pedestrian? Air tight logic.

Quoted from DustinBowcot No it wouldn't. It would be highly dramatic, that isn't the same as overly dramatic, which is of course melodrama.

Of course, yes, of course. You're the one that wrote the dictionary, of course. Dude, seriously, it's getting sad how wrong you are about this and how big of a hole you're digging for yourself. Hey, it's your hole. Eventually the dirt will start falling on your head.

Quoted from DustinBowcot You already said that and I don't agree with it. Senseless violence, yes... but gore. Long, long way away. You have real difficulty defining genres it seems.

Well I imagined the scene gore-y. We can't predict how the director chooses to deal with it, true. But if it's shown on screen, I would consider it gore. And therefore I would consider the first three minutes of the film gore, and deduce from that that the rest of it will be just as gore-y. Obviously, that's not the case. I'm just saying those would be my impressions as an audience member.

Quoted from DustinBowcot You are incapable of it for different reasons than it being fake. You have no idea what real is.

Haha I have no idea what real is when I'm watching fiction. Air tight logic.

Quoted from DustinBowcot You've never been there while people have been shot around you, your wife shot in front of you. Your child about to be harmed. You have no idea what is real and what isn't. You cannot say what people would or wouldn't say in that situation. When people really panic they can say crazy things that make no sense at all... but doing that in a script would be hard. Kind of thing you need to do on set with the actor. As that is where a lot of dialogue is changed anyway. As writers we only need to convey the sentiment and an approximation of dialogue.

So now to recover from my criticism you're going to blame the audience? This is why we have bad movies these days. This is exactly the reason why. Because screenwriters like yourself treat the audience like they're dimwits.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Why would I take it personally?

Based on what you've said thus far, you seem to have. Either that or your attitude is just inherently acrid.

I don't have a problem understanding good stories. True, I'm not a fan of all of the classic one's I've read. But that doesn't mean I don't understand them. I don't understand your script not because I don't want to, but because you're asking me to "understand" by ignoring what I think are far fetched plot points.

Good luck with your script, Dustin. I am not going to bother reading the rest of it because it's clear to me that you think I don't want to understand it. I hope you find the right people that do.

-J.S.

If you followed the link, Dustin, you would understand instead of just being obstinate. Your capacity to learn is significantly impaired by your general unwillingness to consider the possibility you are wrong.

Melodramatic does NOT mean "overly" dramatic. I've provided the dictionary definition for you twice. All you have to do is read it. I've led the horse to water, now take a sip.

Melodramatic is a form, and up until recent decades, it was the norm and the ideal. It is not a pejorative term. It simply means using exaggerated style. Films aimed to be melodramatic. Don't take my word. I didn't know this myself until today. I looked it up. I've done the work for you, all you have to do is read. Two minutes and your confusion will dissolve.

It is possible for a film to be insufficiently melodramatic. And it is possible for a film to be overly melodramatic.

It's not a "new" definition. You have the internet, presumably you've heard of google. Apply common standards and dictionary descriptions instead of your own. Or just keep making things up. Up to you.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Overly dramatic is a synonym of melodramatic. So melodramatic can be defined as being overly dramatic.

You like repeating yourself even when you've been proven wrong don't you? I underlined it for you and you still keep going. Wow, dude. That hole sure is looking deep from up here.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Give me an example of going too far with melodrama. Melodrama is OTT drama, so I'd love to know what could top that.

Now I see what the problem is. You don't even know what Melodrama is.

Quoted from J.S. I lack the ability (not capability; check your usage notes)

Having the capability to do something is the same as having the ability to do it. I see the English lesson continues. FFS!

Quoted from J.S. to empathize because I think your portrayal of emotions in the first three pages of your script are pedestrian? Air tight logic.

No mate, I just think that you are incapable of empathising because you have never loved anyone.

Quoted from J.S. Of course, yes, of course. You're the one that wrote the dictionary, of course. Dude, seriously, it's getting sad how wrong you are about this and how big of a hole you're digging for yourself. Hey, it's your hole. Eventually the dirt will start falling on your head.

Yeah keep saying how wrong I am... that proves a lot.

Quoted from J.S. Well I imagined the scene gore-y. We can't predict how the director chooses to deal with it, true. But if it's shown on screen, I would consider it gore. And therefore I would consider the first three minutes of the film gore, and deduce from that that the rest of it will be just as gore-y. Obviously, that's not the case. I'm just saying those would be my impressions as an audience member.

No they wouldn't be your impressions as an audience member they are your impressions as a script reader. Reading three pages every three hours. I can read that script in an hour. I've read it quite a few times now and I know where the bad bits are. There's a cringeworthy line at the end I need to clean up too. You've probably spent more time responding in this thread than you have reading the script.

Quoted from J.S. Haha I have no idea what real is when I'm watching fiction. Air tight logic.

Obviously logic lost on you. There is plenty reality in fiction.

Quoted from J.S. So now to recover from my criticism you're going to blame the audience? This is why we have bad movies these days. This is exactly the reason why. Because screenwriters like yourself treat the audience like they're dimwits.

I believe I have created an entertaining script. I don't remember blaming the audience for anything. I also am not treating them like dimwits. I'm guessing you've been at this game a long time, James... hence your obvious aggression against an amazing script, penned in just 8 days by a relative newb.

Quoted from J.S. Based on what you've said thus far, you seem to have. Either that or your attitude is just inherently acrid.

As far as I'm concerned we are just talking about this script. I'm not sure why I would take anything personally. I'm being extremely mild in my responses, I haven't thrown any insults, profanity is non existent. What attitude are you talking about? I'm simply arguing against your points... you may not like that, you may feel that I am being aggressive because of it... but that is a psychological issue on your own behalf that you should address. Just argue the points... no need to even mention anything about hurting people's feelings when we're simply shooting the Shiite (sorry for the Islamist joke there).

Quoted from J.S. I don't have a problem understanding good stories. True, I'm not a fan of all of the classic one's I've read. But that doesn't mean I don't understand them. I don't understand your script not because I don't want to, but because you're asking me to "understand" by ignoring what I think are far fetched plot points.

Well I've lived that kind of life and there have been times where I've hooked up with crews and mad Shiite has happened all within 24 hours of meeting. Crazy mo'fo's out there. Half of them do it just for the buzz, I'm sure. Like they're playing a game of GTA or something. Guys just out of jail... but anyway... you don't want to hear about REAL EXPERIENCES... you just want to hear Shiite that sounds real to you. Which is in regards to this genre, a combination of everything you've seen and watched on TV. You've never been homeless or a criminal... you can't even imagine, at all, what it is like... so for you to have an opinion on what is realistic and what isn't is quite laughable.

Quoted from J.S. I am not going to bother reading the rest of it... -J.S.

Good.

Quoted from KevinLenihan If you followed the link, Dustin, you would understand instead of just being obstinate. Your capacity to learn is significantly impaired by your general unwillingness to consider the possibility you are wrong. Melodramatic does NOT mean "overly" dramatic. I've provided the dictionary definition for you twice. All you have to do is read it. I've led the horse to water, now take a sip. Melodramatic is a form, and up until recent decades, it was the norm and the ideal. It is not a pejorative term. It simply means using exaggerated style. Films aimed to be melodramatic. Don't take my word. I didn't know this myself until today. I looked it up. I've done the work for you, all you have to do is read. Two minutes and your confusion will dissolve. It is possible for a film to be insufficiently melodramatic. And it is possible for a film to be overly melodramatic. It's not a "new" definition. You have the internet, presumably you've heard of google. Apply common standards and dictionary descriptions instead of your own. Or just keep making things up. Up to you.

To be melodramatic doesn't take being overly dramatic, it doesn't take being overly emotional, or overly sentimental. Also overly dramatic is not a synonym of melodramatic... gotcha

So... back to reality where melodrama does mean all of those things.
LOL.
Indeed in my paper dictionary, which I will take a pic of if necessary. Melodrama is defined as: A sensational dramatic piece with crude appeals to the emotions and usu. a happy ending.


How does one crudely appeal to emotions? I'll leave you to answer that one without being overly dramatic, overly emotional or overly sentimental.

Also give me an example... write it yourself, of something not simply melodramatic, but overly melodramatic. shouldn't take you 5 minutes.

This really isn't the kind of attention you want your writing to get.

By being combative, you've already cut in halo the potential reads and reviews you are going to get.

Also, if there are prospective buyers looking at this, you've shown that working with you will be tedious at best, impossible worst.

Your getting s lot of traffic on your thread, but your only hurting yourself.

Shawn.....><

Quoted from Ledbetter Your getting s lot of traffic on your thread, but your only hurting yourself. Shawn.....><

It's 'you're'.

In the link I gave you, they give the example of the film High Noon as being indicative of the melodramatic style. If we were to take that film, and have the marshal sobbing and speaking to himself like some Shakespearian character, then the story would be overly melodramatic.

Melodramatic does not mean overly dramatic. Don't take my word, look it up if you think I doctored the dictionary definitions I merely pasted into the thread.

Overly would suggest something negative. Which does not make sense when melodrama is in fact the goal.

If you had asked me when this discussion started, I was inclined to agree with you, believe it or not. It seemed logical that using overly with melodramatic was redundant.

Two minutes of research reveals that to be an incorrect conclusion, because melodramatic simply does not mean "overly" dramatic. Again, look it up. You are not entitled to create your own dictionary any more than your own reality.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Having the capability to do something is the same as having the ability to do it. I see the English lesson continues. FFS!

"These nouns denote qualities that enable a person to achieve or accomplish something. Ability is the mental or physical power to do something: "To make a fortune some assistance from fate is essential. Ability alone is insufficient" (Ihara Saikaku).
Capacity refers to the potential for acquiring that power: "The capability [women] have shown in the realm of higher education, their achievements in the business world, their capacity for organization . . . have been a revelation" (Susan B. Anthony)."

How's the hole coming along down there Dustin?

Quoted from DustinBowcot No mate, I just think that you are incapable of empathising because you have never loved anyone.

Haha. Oh, dude, wow. I had a good laugh. And I remember just some odd dozen posts ago, my second post I believe, saying that melodramatic stories takes themselves too seriously. Not only that you take criticism too seriously. It's criticism, man! And, oh, I love how you say this isn't getting personal yet you're making statements like "you have never loved anyone." Wow, Dustin. Just wow. You're making things worse on yourself that's all I'll say and leave it at that. I don't mind what you think of me. I could care less. I was just trying to help. Think and say whatever you wish. I can't take you seriously, dude. Sorry. You're just too ridiculous. haha

Quoted from DustinBowcot No they wouldn't be your impressions as an audience member they are your impressions as a script reader. Reading three pages every three hours. I can read that script in an hour.

Good for you, Dustin. Good for you. I'm happy for you, dude. I'm happy for you.

Quoted from DustinBowcot hence your obvious aggression against an amazing script, penned in just 8 days by a relative newb.

Nothing wrong in thinking your script's amazing dude. It's your script be proud of it. But I can sense how ticked off you are that I called it melodramatic and that I'm criticizing it based on some of its far-fetched plot points. It clearly went bone deep. Sorry about that. I didn't know you were that overly sensitive.

Quoted from DustinBowcot It's 'you're'.

Best of luck, little man...

Quoted from KevinLenihan In the link I gave you, they give the example of the film High Noon as being indicative of the melodramatic style. If we were to take that film, and have the marshal sobbing and speaking to himself like some Shakespearian character, then the story would be overly melodramatic.

Nope... that's melodrama. It would simply be indicative of its genre.

Quoted from KevinLenihan Melodramatic does not mean overly dramatic. Don't take my word, look it up if you think I doctored the dictionary definitions I merely pasted into the thread.

A word is more than its definition. It is also the sum of the words within that definition. I've done far more research than checking a single poxy definition in a dictionary.

Quoted from KevinLenihan Overly would suggest something negative. Which does not make sense when melodrama is in fact the goal.

Overly doesn't suggest anything... it in fact, states: excessively. Of course excessive is negative.

Quoted from KevinLenihan If you had asked me when this discussion started, I was inclined to agree with you, believe it or not. It seemed logical that using overly with melodramatic was redundant.

That's because it is redundant. it is especially redundant within the context of this thread.

Quoted from KevinLenihan Two minutes of research reveals that to be an incorrect conclusion, because melodramatic simply does not mean "overly" dramatic. Again, look it up. You are not entitled to create your own dictionary any more than your own reality.

I didn't say it simply meant that... not at all. i said that to be melodramatic takes being overly dramatic, or overly emotional, or overly sentimental, or over acted... you're saying that it doesn't... and I can respect your stance. Well, I can't... because it's pretty obvious that it takes at least one of those things to be melodramatic.

Hey Dustin, just saying this to help you out man, you're a solid writer, and overall a stand-up guy (though it may not seem that way through this thread) - but producers and filmmakers DO roam these pages, and when they see a bloated thread, they tend to get curious. And the way this thread has blown up, it doesn't exactly depict you in a positive light. What I'm saying, through experience, is that things don't always go as planned - someone may like your script, but it may not fit their slate. But that same someone may hire you, based on the strength of that script, to write something else for them. But if you seem hard to work with, they may just move on to the next writer. And simplyscripts.com isn't the only place to look for writers. There's millions of us out there who work just as hard and are just as talented.

Whether you're right or someone else is wrong, you should probably just take the high road, respectfully agree to disagree and do what writers do - write.

Do whatever you think you need to do with this script and move on to the next project. Which I'm sure you're doing, but imagine how much more work you'd get done if you weren't giving a constant rebuttal to every bit of criticism you receive on this thread alone? (half of it really doesn't have anything to do with the script)

And if you question the credibility of the people reading and reviewing your script, take it to a professional for coverage (probably someone who is familiar with British cinema).

Cheers,

Michael

So you are saying High Noon is an example of melodrama, but it is not melodramatic?

Quoted from J.S. "These nouns denote qualities that enable a person to achieve or accomplish something. Ability is the mental or physical power to do something: "To make a fortune some assistance from fate is essential. Ability alone is insufficient" (Ihara Saikaku). Capacity refers to the potential for acquiring that power: "The capability [women] have shown in the realm of higher education, their achievements in the business world, their capacity for organization . . . have been a revelation" (Susan B. Anthony)." How's the hole coming along down there Dustin?

Not sure what your point is... one of those nouns is: Capacity. I said that ability and capability are the same thing. Never mentioned capacity at all.

FYI here is what the dictionary says about capability:

1. The quality of being capable; ability.
2. A talent or ability that has potential for development or use. Often used in the plural: a student of great capabilities.
3. The capacity to be used, treated, or developed for a specific purpose:

I'm digging the hole for you mate

Quoted from J.S. Haha. Oh, dude, wow. I had a good laugh. And I remember just some odd dozen posts ago, my second post I believe, saying that melodramatic stories takes themselves too seriously. Not only that you take criticism too seriously. It's criticism, man! And, oh, I love how you say this isn't getting personal yet you're making statements like "you have never loved anyone." Wow, Dustin. Just wow. You're making things worse on yourself that's all I'll say and leave it at that. I don't mind what you think of me. I could care less. I was just trying to help. Think and say whatever you wish. I can't take you seriously, dude. Sorry. You're just too ridiculous. haha

I didn't realise I was getting personal, it was just a guess derived from your obvious lack of compassion for women or children. You weren't concerned about the baby, you simply mentioned the gore factor. You're not allowing your emotions in. So that tells me you're probably lonely. Maybe I'm wrong... I certainly wasn't trying to be personal... but now that I can see I've hit a sore spot, I'll leave it alone.

Quoted from J.S. Nothing wrong in thinking your script's amazing dude. It's your script be proud of it. But I can sense how ticked off you are that I called it melodramatic and that I'm criticizing it based on some of its far-fetched plot points. It clearly went bone deep. Sorry about that. I didn't know you were that overly sensitive.

Not ticked off by anything you say mate. I don't think much of your opinion so it's water off a duck's back. I actually agreed on some parts being overly dramatic so I'm not sure why you feel your remarks would be hurtful. Obviously, now I can see, that was your intent. LOL.

Quoted from KevinLenihan So you are saying High Noon is an example of melodrama, but it is not melodramatic?

My argument would be that High Noon may fit into melodrama but it isn't overly melodramatic... it is simply melodramatic.

I've been thinking about this quite a lot... as you can tell. I've also done a fair amount more than 2 minutes research and I do believe that you are correct. Melodrama is not the overly dramatic, it is the overly, overly dramatic. It is the overly dramatic taken even further and drifted into melodrama. You can't get any further than melodrama, IMO.