I am currently writing my second script and am having a intensely difficult time writing actions with 4 lines or less. I feel like this rule is applied over SS because a lot of people here are beginners at script writing. I was looking over at imsdb.com and many of the scripts do not have 4 lines or less. Can someone tell me why in the world this rule has to be applied? Also, how can I get my lines to be shorter than 4 lines if this is needed? It is almost impossible to describe a character or setting without going over 4 lines.

If you need to have that much doing on, split it up.  No one wants to reads paragraphs of text in a script.


Phil

Readability. Screenplays should do two things: allow the reader to visualise what's on the page, and be an easy read.

If you think we only mention and follow this rule because we're beginners, then why are you worrying about it at all? We don't know what we're talking about, right?

I think if you're intro-ing a character and it takes longer than four lines, you're over-doing it. Same with scene descriptions. What exactly is it that you have to tell us about your characters that takes such a long time? Character intros should be name and physical features (that could include clothes if appropriate). Other stuff, like history and personality, should be shown through their actions and dialogue, not explained upfront.

But of course you probably already knew that. After all, I'm just a beginner - what do I know?

Why you shouldn't go over four lines? Because it looks bad - it's as simple as that.  A page should be as white as possible. When someone skims a page and it's all black then you immediately know it's gonna take forever to read. And that's exactly what you don't want. A script should be a breeze to read through - easy and fast.

And why can't you write action with four lines or less? Does your sentences run four lines? If that's the case, then you have a problem. Break up your sentences. Nobody is saying you can't have several four-line paragraphs right after each other.

And for the record, I think even four lines is over the top - two are plenty, three if you're in a tight spot.

Forget the pro-scripts. Those guys can do what they want - you can't.

I don't feel like I am over-doing it at all. It is hard for me to picture my characters when I only have a limited use of 4 lines. If anything, I am under-doing it. I know this may sound a bit "different", but I don't mind reading paragraphs of text. It may be hard for a lot of people to read, but I quite enjoy it.

I feel like you think I am being very mean and negative because of me calling some people beginners, when all I really want is help.

I have tried breaking up my sentences, but it looks absolutely horrible. It looks worse than all the words in 8 lines.

Quoted from usaking I know this may sound a bit "different", but I don't mind reading paragraphs of text. It may be hard for a lot of people to read, but I quite enjoy it.

Professionals don't

In all fairness, usaking, check out Sniper's work. He's very good at getting the most out of his words.

If I were you, I would bang out the first draft and then tighten the structure/layout afterwards. After all, your script will live and die by its story, so polishing a script on first draft is - largely - unnecessary.

Andrew

Quoted from usaking I know this may sound a bit "different", but I don't mind reading paragraphs of text. It may be hard for a lot of people to read, but I quite enjoy it.

That's the thing, though - it's the reader you have to think about. It's your job to show them the pictures you had in mind when you wrote the words in as easy and interesting way as possible.

And people here are more than happy to help. I'm happy to try. I just don't think people - at least, myself - appreciate it when someone comes asking for help and then complains that what they're told don't count because SS is full of 'amateurs' or 'beginners'. You came to us! But you're not the first to do it, so. And anyway, some people here aren't beginners - they've had scripts optioned, sold and produced, so if they tell you it's the rule it's the rule. Okay, sonny? :) (By the way, I'm not referring to myself, there.)

Here's what I suggest. Just post a couple of character intros, scene descriptions, action lines - whatever - that you've written. And we'll see if we can show you how to cut it down. I know it's a hard rule to get used to. But it really does help the readability of what you write.

I have the same problem. Try cutting down your lines to one or two lines. It can be done. Or watch your favorite DVD with the subtitles on to see the rule in action.

It can be maddening to work within the constraints of rules, but it does work.

Gary

I didn't mean to call people here beginners or amateurs, and I am sorry for saying it. I sometimes get really frustrated and say things I don't mean.

I can't really post anything in the script because a few minutes ago, I erased it all and decided to start fresh I only had 1 page, so it isn't really a big deal.

Quoted from usaking I don't feel like I am over-doing it at all. It is hard for me to picture my characters when I only have a limited use of 4 lines. If anything, I am under-doing it. I know this may sound a bit "different", but I don't mind reading paragraphs of text.

1st off it, it doesn't matter what "YOU" like reading at all... It's what "they" like reading... 2nd of all if you feel like you're under doing it then you shouldn't be a screenwriter... You should be a novelist.

Screenwriting is crude, short, blunt and to the point. Think of screenwriting like this. You have the Mona Lisa and you have stick figures.  The Mona Lisa represents the novel and the stick figure represents the screenplay.  It is the shell of the picture to come and nothing more.

Quoted from usaking I didn't mean to call people here beginners or amateurs, and I am sorry for saying it. I sometimes get really frustrated and say things I don't mean. I can't really post anything in the script because a few minutes ago, I erased it all and decided to start fresh I only had 1 page, so it isn't really a big deal.

That's fine. Don't worry about it.

And I'm still going to try and show you what can be done to try and shorten a paragraph that's too long. Apologies to Craig S. Cooper for what I'm about to do, but its purpose is educational.

This is the first paragraph to 'Playing God', a short posted about a month ago:

INT. LAB - NIGHT

The laboratory is of fairly decent size, and well equipped. The lights flicker intermittently. To one side of a desk a big plastic sheet covers a huge pile of something, and in the corner of the room there is a large, smashed up piece of machinery, which resembles a photo booth, slumped up to the side of this is a body. There is a splattering of blood along the side of the machine, reaching as far as the white walls. At the feet of the body lies a gun.

Now in the PDF version, that's eight lines long. That's not great, particularly for an opening paragraph (again, apologies to Mr. Cooper...I'm not victimising you on purpose!). He's done what you said you do - take too long to describe a setting. But it's possible to include all the information that's there, just in a less abrupt, off-putting way.

This is a very quick rewrite. Hopefully someone else will step in and do a better job of showing you what's possible:

INT. LAB - NIGHT

Lights flicker in a well-equipped laboratory. All is quiet.

Next to the desk, a white sheet covers a large pile of suspicious-looking objects.

In the corner lies a piece of mangled machinery. It looks a bit like a phone booth. Blood is splattered up one side.

Leaning against the machine is a DEAD BODY. A gun lies at its feet.

What I've tried to do there is capture the same scene, and convey the same feeling of the aftermath of an experiment gone wrong, but in a more readable way. Now I'm not saying what I've come up with is better than the original. But I think it's easier to read, and a large part of that is the short paragraphs. Short sentences, too.

Do you see what I mean? Remember, screenplays are not literature. While I think Balt's analogy of the Mona Lisa vs. stick figures is flawed, I agree with the point he is trying to make: you're trying to tell us what the finished painting will look like, allowing us to visualise it in our heads, but without actually trying to describe every individual brush-stroke.

You can also break up the action and in doing so indicating different shots.

Baltis, I am definitely sure that I am supposed to be a screenwriter. No offense, but I can't stand novels and do not wish to ever be a novelist.

JonnyBoy, the problem is that when sentences are broken up, as you have shown, they look ugly and horrible to me. It reminds me of "bad things" which I can't even describe.

Quoted from usaking JonnyBoy, the problem is that when sentences are broken up, as you have shown, they look ugly and horrible to me. It reminds me of "bad things" which I can't even describe.

Do they remind you of pink flamingoes, by any chance? :)

Fair enough if that's how you feel. But I'd urge you to put your own tastes to one side. Honestly, which one was easier to read? You have to try to be as economical as you can be. Less really can be more in this game.

I get the feeling I'm not going to convince you here, so I'll try the other approach: it's just a rule. Some rules - "we see", using "ing"s - can be bent. But you have to really know and understand the rules before you can consider playing around with them. And this is one, probably THE ONE that should never even be curved slightly, let alone broken. Long, looooong paragraphs are an indicator of poor writing. They're a red flag, in a way, a sign that you don't know the form. It takes discipline to write the correct way, discipline and practice. But the end result IS a screenplay that's easier to read, despite what your personal instincts might be right now.

I see what you mean and will try hard to make my scripts easier to read. I still disagree with you about it being difficult to read long paragraphs.

Hey King,

What might be helpful is if you give us an example of what you consider "impossible" to trim. If you're describing a character, does your text include superflous details. Ex: are you describing hair that is "black like a river gently flowing with the moon glowing above"? If so (or similar) your problem is clear. Same with describing emotional justification or character backstory within your narrative.
Even if it's totally frustrating and seems to be going nowhere, don't erase full (or partial) scripts. Just start over again in another file.

Well, I already erased it. I mean 1 page is not really a big deal (at least to me). I remember most, if not everything, that I wrote on that first page. My script does not include superflous details. I am not used to writing like that at all.

Quoted from usaking My script does not include superflous details. I am not used to writing like that at all.

Think terse. Write only what we can see. Anything more than that and people will slam you for it.

Read this as an example of perfect poetic writing that is still short and to the point and awesome story telling...  http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1213645312/    
or this one by the same author.  http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1197232224/

Umm, by "slam" do you mean yell at me and possibly get a little upset or do you mean just not like it a lot?

Quoted from usaking Umm, by "slam" do you mean yell at me and possibly get a little upset or do you mean just not like it a lot?

She means you'll get negative feedback, possibly harsh negative feedback.

However, if you aren't going to enter it into a contest and you aren't trying to pitch it to the studio system then it doesn't really matter.  Realise though that independent producers and directors often have a short attention span, a few lines at a time is all they can handle, any more and the meaning will be lost on them.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I am always afraid of harsh feedback. That's the kind of stuff that really brings me down.

Then don't go over 4 lines. It's quite easy once you get used to it.

It's also excellent for stressing important information.

I luckily edited my first script, which I already submitted to SS. I think it actually looks HORRIBLE with every paragraph being 4 lines or less, but I will do whatever it takes to become good at script writing.

It's really that simple, usaking. It's not a rule you break. If you do, people will call you on it. And they'll do it with force, because it's such a simple thing to remember.

You have to get the basics of formatting sorted. Then you can focus on the interestings things, the ones people REALLY want to comment on when they read a script: dialogue, story, characters, etc.

Quoted from usaking I luckily edited my first script, which I already submitted to SS. I think it actually looks HORRIBLE with every paragraph being 4 lines or less, but I will do whatever it takes to become good at script writing.

Formatting isn't about how the script looks - it's about how the script reads.

Quoted from usaking I think it actually looks HORRIBLE with every paragraph being 4 lines or less, but I will do whatever it takes to become good at script writing.

Sorry to be harsh, but don't ask for advices anymore and just do what you want if you don't want to listen

Quoted from usaking I have tried breaking up my sentences, but it looks absolutely horrible. It looks worse than all the words in 8 lines.

I've written large pieces of action and/or descriptions. I do it by breaking it down, not by lines but by the ideas.  Fight sequences are a great example of this.  If two guys are fighting, you don't write the entire fight in one long paragraph.  It'll give the reader a headache.

Splitting up the action also allows you to take a quick break and think about what you've read. Let it soak in before you move on.

You can't say that Tarantino does something a certain way, so you should be allowed to. Tarantino is Tarantino and you're not.  He directs what he writes; if he wants to hand-write his script on toilet, it'll get produced

Learn the rules before you break the rules.  Those that you send your scripts to wil expect you to follow them.

If you still think that limiting the lines is a stupid rule, then read al the above, again, as one block of text:

Quoted from usaking I have tried breaking up my sentences, but it looks absolutely horrible. It looks worse than all the words in 8 lines.

  I've written large pieces of action and/or descriptions. I do it by breaking it down, not by lines but by the ideas.  Fight sequences are a great example of this.  If two guys are fighting, you don't write the entire fight in one long paragraph.  It'll give the reader a headache.  Splitting up the action also allows you to take a quick break and think about what you've read. Let it soak in before you move on.  You can't say that Tarantino does something a certain way, so you should be allowed to. Tarantino is Tarantino and you're not.  He directs what he writes; if he wants to hand-write his script on toilet, it'll get produced.  Learn the rules before you break the rules.  Those that you send your scripts to wil expect you to follow them.  If you still think that limiting the lines is a stupid rule, then read al the above, again, as one block of text:


Phil

"Baltis, I am definitely sure that I am supposed to be a screenwriter. No offense, but I can't stand novels and do not wish to ever be a novelist. "

Ok, let me rephrase it than... You might not be good enough to be a screenwriter if you can't follow simple guidelines and structure. If you're having a hard time trying to condense your "wordy" exploits down into 4 lines then you're gonna have some problems... Not just with me, but with anyone who wishes to read your work.

I'm not giving you a hard time I'm simply trying to make you see that screenplays do not need long drawn out character descriptions and location set ups. For instance...

INT. BAR - NIGHT

DO NOT LET US KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN GREAT DETAIL... WE KNOW WHAT A BAR LOOKS LIKE.

Write like your audience isn't completely fucking retarded. How about that? Write like we, the audience, actually have our own imagination.   You do that and you might get some work done. And just because you sit down in front of a computer and write doesn't mean you're a screenwriter. I can stand in a garage all day but it isn't going to make me a car.

usaking,

did you give any of the scripts I mentioned a read? They are only five pages each, but are brilliant on every level...

Just trying to be helpful...

me, I have not read the scripts you have mentioned yet, but am planning to. I currently am trying to write my second script at the moment. I have read everyone's comments (both negative and positive) and have taken them into consideration.

I will most likely read the scripts mentioned earlier, tomorrow, because I really want to get as much done with my second script as possible tonight and the rest of the weekend.

Which scripts were they, Pia?


Phil

Send me what you have, usaking, and i will try to help you out, pal.

No doubt most of the scripts you have read are shooting scripts or transcripts posted on the web. Not original spec scripts.

And thereby lies the difference.

First of all there are very few rules when writing a script but there are many guide lines. They are not and have not been created to make it easier for beginners. Producers don’t care how long you have been writing what they do care about is if you can write.

And an economy of words is an indication to the skills of the writer.

Writing short action sequences is easy if you think in camera movements, shots or angles but obviously don’t include camera directions as such, in a spec script.

Example a fight scene from my screenplay “Recompense”

“Oneshot watches Hardman #1’s approach in the mirror.

Hardman #1 is annoyed at not getting respect and his face show it.  He puts his left hand on Oneshot’s left shoulder and begins to thrust the knife forward with his right.

Oneshot ducks and turns in a flash as he pushes the hand with the blade away with his left hand, he punches
Hardman #1 in the throat with his right fist.

Hardman #1 collapses.  Hardman #2 with a knife in his right hand rushes from the washroom door toward Oneshot.  He lurches at his victim.

Oneshot twists his body so that the blade misses, then with both hands he grabs the assailant’s right wrist and wrenches it backwards.  

Hardman #2’s ELBOW SNAPS in a loud CRACK as Oneshot bends it backwards, the blade hits the floor.”

Copyright © Ron Aberdeen

I’ve written the action as it would be choreographed and in a way hopefully indicating the visual movements that need to be considered when filming.

Think visually then you will write visually.

Sorry, Ron, but your example is pretty poorly written, and is not a good example of "economy of words", in any way.

How many times do you use "right hand", "left hand", etc.?  WAY TOO MANY!  This is way too detailed. No reader cares for this level of detail, and most won't continue.

Another issue is the lack of character's names. "Hardman #1" and "Hardman #2" aren't going to cut it very often.

Don't mean to be an ass, but your example isn't going to help anyone.

Quoted from Ron Aberdeen No doubt most of the scripts you have read are shooting scripts or transcripts posted on the web. Not original spec scripts. And thereby lies the difference. First of all there are very few rules when writing a script but there are many guide lines. They are not and have not been created to make it easier for beginners. Producers don’t care how long you have been writing what they do care about is if you can write. And an economy of words is an indication to the skills of the writer. Writing short action sequences is easy if you think in camera movements, shots or angles but obviously don’t include camera directions as such, in a spec script. Example a fight scene from my screenplay “Recompense” “Oneshot watches Hardman #1’s approach in the mirror. Hardman #1 is annoyed at not getting respect and his face show it.  He puts his left hand on Oneshot’s left shoulder and begins to thrust the knife forward with his right. Oneshot ducks and turns in a flash as he pushes the hand with the blade away with his left hand, he punches Hardman #1 in the throat with his right fist. Hardman #1 collapses.  Hardman #2 with a knife in his right hand rushes from the washroom door toward Oneshot.  He lurches at his victim. Oneshot twists his body so that the blade misses, then with both hands he grabs the assailant’s right wrist and wrenches it backwards.   Hardman #2’s ELBOW SNAPS in a loud CRACK as Oneshot bends it backwards, the blade hits the floor.” Copyright © Ron Aberdeen I’ve written the action as it would be choreographed and in a way hopefully indicating the visual movements that need to be considered when filming. Think visually then you will write visually.

Triggerstreet legend Ron Aberdeen.

Welcome aboard.

And how does one "begin to thrust a knife forward"? Is he standing there thinking, "I'm sooo gonna stab this bastard, like, really soon. I'm not doing it now, I'm beginning to but I'm not quite there yet. Aw fuck, he gonna find out I'm beginning to stab him and then he's gonna turn around and break my fucking elbow. Shit. Dammit."?

I thought the "Copyright © Ron Aberdeen" was cute though.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films Triggerstreet legend Ron Aberdeen.Welcome aboard.

Dammit, he's a legend? I better watch my mouth then.

Quoted from sniper Dammit, he's a legend? I better watch my mouth then.

He seems to have taken some heat for just trying to help. You are essentially really concerned about his use of two redundant words ("begins to" and that's a matter of opinion), and Dreamscale seems very concerned that a couple of random goons who are just there for the body count, don't have names.

His example is a fair one. You can have as many lines of description as you want if its moving the story along properly.

Shelton scratches his balls.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films His example is a fair one.

Which is also a matter of opinion.

It's weird, I cracked open Mike Judge's latest screenplay yesterday ("Extract") and his formatting was atrocious.  The description paragraphs were sometimes 5+ sentences and it made for a very slow, grueling read.   "The rules" exist for a reason.  Just check out that script.

Ron, if I am not mistaken, is a working writer and in contact with established peeps in Hollywood.

And Dreams continues to speak with authority about what is right and wrong, and how professional readers will react. ;)

Isn't this the 1, 647th thread about this type of thing just this year? Maybe I'm wrong and it's only the 1,646th...

Same arguments made every time.   :P

It is about readability.  I have read specs by newcomers that have paragraphs that consistently exceed 4 lines.  Check out William Monahan's Tripoli.

I think the only rule is to keep the read compelling.

Although, IMO, 4 lines plus seems a tad long to describe a piece of scenery or character.

Yes, let us at least let the new guy get his feet wet before trouncing his post with CAPS ON and exclamation points, shall we?

Six lines of anybody's screenplay completely out of context will likely fail to impress.

Sometimes we are not as welcoming as we might be to those who are "pretentious" enough to offer their opinions without a formal introduction.

Reign in those horses a bit, guys, instead of chasing people off.

My point was with the level of detail, and the repeated use of "left" and "right".  It does not read well at all.  The sentence structure isn't even good.  I just don't think it's a good example to use, no matter who wrote it.

I don't think I've mentioned that before in a post before, have I?

Quoted from Dreamscale My point was with the level of detail, and the repeated use of "left" and "right".  It does not read well at all.  The sentence structure isn't even good.  I just don't think it's a good example to use, no matter who wrote it. I don't think I've mentioned that before in a post before, have I?

You repeated your use of "before".  For shame.

HaHa HaHa, I did, I did.  I can't believe it.  I can't believe it.

What's wrong with me?  What's wrong with me?  Oh fuck it...

Quoted from Why One And Dreams continues to speak with authority about what is right and wrong, and how professional readers will react. ;)

I don't write for a reader I write for a producer or director.

Quoted from bert Yes, let us at least let the new guy get his feet wet before trouncing his post with CAPS ON and exclamation points, shall we? Six lines of anybody's screenplay completely out of context will likely fail to impress. Sometimes we are not as welcoming as we might be to those who are "pretentious" enough to offer their opinions without a formal introduction. Reign in those horses a bit, guys, instead of chasing people off.

I have to agree with Bert on this. I see a lot of posts trashing scripts for format and not even mentioning content.

It would be nice to see mosts posts from folks commenting on stories as well as content.