Why isn't there a Heroes thread yet?  I've gotta start one :)

Heroes is NBC's best new show this season.  My favourite character is Hiro Nakamura whose time-bending power is similar to what some characters can sometimes do in a series of scripts that I write *glee*

Heroes is a damn good ... good ... good ... show.  All of the characters hold my interest.  Awesome stuff.  

Watch Heroes.  

Yeah I think this is an awesome show as well. Way better than Lost ever was. I think its a lot more interesting. I agree with Holman. It's a really good show. Can't wait and see what happens in coming episodes. Good old Tim Kring.


Cheers, Chism.

Quoted from chism Yeah I think this is an awesome show as well. Way better than Lost ever was.

haha, sorry, Heroes isnt even close to the quality of Lost. Heroes wouldnt even be - without Lost....being as the creator has clearly credited Lost for his show's creation (and ripped it off with it's coicidence driven character connections).... and had help with the development of his story from Lost Co-producer and head writer himself - Damon Lindelof.

the dialogue is clunky and too "on the nose" and the acting isn't nearly on par with the actors on Lost.

plus there's some major plot holes.... how can anything really bad happen when you have a guy who can just go back in time and fix it???? and whats the point of having an artist who can paint the future when you have a guy who can just go foward in time...see what happens...then go back and fix it.

and i'm also wondering why they need to save the cheerleader when she is indestructable. they better bust out some serious f#cking kryptonite on this show soon or else whats the point?

YOU SAID:  "Heroes isnt even close to the quality of Lost."

MY REPLY:  Well, you're entitled to your opinion.  In my opinion, I've seen the first two episodes of Lost, and it didn't interest me.  HEROES interested me from the first preview I saw.  So, in my opinion, Heroes is better quality than Lost, because Heroes appeals to me personally way more than Lost does.

YOU SAID:  "the dialogue is clunky and too "on the nose""

MY REPLY:  I don't know what you mean by "clunky", but I think that the dialogue keeps the show fun.  And "on the nose" is always good because it helps elevate the story from one point to the next.

YOU SAID:  "how can anything really bad happen when you have a guy who can just go back in time and fix it????"

MY REPLY:  I've dealt with this question while writing my own time-travel stories.  Time-travel can cause a lot of unforseen problems.  The technicalities of fixing even a simple problem with time-travel are difficult when you actually plan out the logistics.  Something "really bad" would be very difficult to solve.

YOU SAID:  and whats the point of having an artist who can paint the future when you have a guy who can just go foward in time...see what happens...then go back and fix it.

MY REPLY:  If you go to the future to prevent something, the lessons that were learned from what was prevented would never be learned.  Or, something worse might take the place of the original event which was prevented.  Or something that would have hapenned later when people were more prepared, might happen sooner, when people aren't prepared.  

YOU SAID:  and i'm also wondering why they need to save the cheerleader when she is indestructable.

MY REPLY:  I don't know.  It's a point of suspense.  And a damn good one too.  And she's not indestructable.  If she gets chopped into enough pieces, and the things which chop her are not removed, she'll probably be defeated.

YOU SAID:  they better bust out some serious f#cking kryptonite on this show soon or else whats the point?

MY REPLY:  All of the characters have clearly defined vulnerabilities.  

I agree the show has flaws, but its certainly one of the better shows on the box at the moment. Since The Sopranos has finished until next year some time, I'm now only interested in Heroes, House and The Office, so this keeps my TV schedule a little fuller. I'll also watch Family Guy and The Simpsons, but it's not like I would make a note to watch them, like with the other three.


Cheers, Chism.

Alan, judging from some of your scripts i have looked at.... i can definetly see why Heroes is right in your zone...

chismeister .... House and The Office are really good shows.

Although Lost cannot be defeated, even by a show with super powers, I'm looking forward to this coming out on DVD, it looks extremely interesting and I've read wondefrul things about it in entertainment weekly.

The premise for Heroes is interesting, though not original.  Unfortunately, the story is grinding to a halt and the writing is pretty bigotted.

The 'save the cheerleader' is pretty obvious as the group will have to save the cheerleader from her father.


Phil

SwapJack ... Yeah, 'tis is mah zone :)

Dogglebe ... What do you mean by its story is grinding to a halt?  I think the story is just getting started.  Saving New York will be the initiating incident for a huge saga, I think.  

I don't know if you're right or wrong about "bigotted" writing.  What do you mean?

And yeah, so far it seems like her father's a really bad guy ... but maybe there's a twist and he's actually good.  I guess we'll find out.  The preview for the next episode showed him and said, "And what side is this guy really on?"  So it should be interesting to find out.

i think he's referring to the sterotypes of the multi ethnic cast... another thing that has bothered me about the show.

the nerdy trekkie japanese character...
the Indian taxi cap driver...
the latin american druggie artist...
the black ex-con...

and so on....

Quoted from SwapJack the nerdy trekkie japanese character... the Indian taxi cap driver... the latin american druggie artist... the black ex-con...

The Japanese guy is comic relief and the two black people with powers are bad guys.

The story is slowing down.  Last week's episode only had one action scene (the car accident), which isn't enough for this type of show.  The show has this long story arc, but they're not doing much for now.  We know the politician is a prick.  We know the cheerleader's dad is the big bad.  Give us something to watch now.


Phil

They're certainly giving us something to watch now. The last two episodes (Homecoming and Six Months Ago) have been absolutely brilliant. Really good entertainment. I think the story is picking up now. According to http://www.tv.com there is only five episodes left in Season One, but that could be wrong.

*****SPOILERS*****

I just have to say, POOR HIRO. He went back in time to save Charlie from being killed by Sylar but it turns out she was dying anyway. And he spent six months with her and fell in love and everything and in the end, he still couldn't save her. Now that is great drama. Feels like there is something bigger going on, like fate is stepping in or something. He tried to change the past, and she died anyway. It's interesting. To me at least.

*****END OF SPOLERS*****

Anyway, as always, cannot wait until my next weekly fix of Heroes. Now that the Sopranos has finished (until next year at least) I'm only watching this, House and The Office (my personal favourite of all at the moment). Bring 'em on, baby!


Cheers, Chism.

Since Prison Break is on hiatus I caught Heroes tonight and it has intrigued me, though I had hardly any idea what was going on. However, I caught the gist of who the bad guys are, who the real powerful ones are and their powers. Hopefully NBC will be airing reruns during the holidays so I can be fully caught up by the time the show returns.

You should definitely try to catch as much of it as you can. Believe me, when you've seen all the episodes so far, it's well worth it. It is a great show.


Cheers, Chism.

A friend insisted that I watch tonight's (and last week's) episode as they were the last episodes of the year.

The show sucks!

They set the premise in the first two weeks and they decided to drag things along for the rest of the series.  There was no closure.  No climaxes.  Nothing!  Week after week of 'wait until next!'  And next week never comes.

If it wasn't for 'Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip' being on right after Heroes, I would've stopped watching it after thtree or four episodes.



Phil

Quoted Text If it wasn't for 'Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip' being on right after Heroes, I would've stopped watching it after thtree or four episodes.

That doesn't make any sense to me. You only watch one show because its on before another one? Why don't you just turn the TV on when the show you wanna watch starts? Down here a crappy reality show called Australian Princess is on before Medium, but I don't watch that just because it's on before a show I wanna watch is on.

Sounds like a big waste of time to me. You could be doing other things in that hour.

I generally have the television on when I'm on the computer for, if anything, background noise.


Phil

Did anyone notice on tonight's episode when Hiro's father (played by George Taiei) stepped into his limo, the license plate was NCC-1701?

Freaking funny stuff!


Phil

This Monday's episode was AMAZING. I'm so envious of Peter. He has the best powers! I'm now seeing that he will probably be among the only ones that can stop SYLAR, who also has so many powers!


* SPOILERS *


And I am so happy that Claire's father is finally gonna get his! I hope he's the one who's going to die. Haha. He is just so mean. ;)

I was talking with someone at a party last night who told me that the big story conclusion, the nuclear bomb in NYC, was lifted from the Watchmen mini-series.  This is going to screw up what people think of the Watchmen if and when it comes out.    People will see this and think they stole the story from Heroes.


Phil

I've stopped watching this show now. I watched up to episode 12 or 13 and then I just completely lost interest, which happens with me sometimes. Happened with Lost as well. My tastes are tempromental at times.


Cheers, Chismeister.

I lost interest in it, too, but had it on because Studio 60 followed it and I liked that show.  But since Studio 60 seems to have been taken off the air, I've been spending my Monday nights downloading porn reading scripts.


Phil

i started out kinda EH about this show... but its gottne better for me as the season has gone on.... it is now part of my weekly viewing along with Lost, The Office, My Name is Earl, and 24

All kidding aside, I think the guys behind Heroes should be ashamed of themselves for stealing the conclusion to their big storyline.


Phil

hey why'd they delete my joke? i guess thats what i get for not posting more often.

Phil, its been hinted in the series that its not necessarily a bomb that blows up NY but a "hero" who;'s powers overload causing him to blow up NY...

and plus a bomb exploding in NY is probably the plot of a squillion movies out there... not just The Watchman.....

to be fair i havent seen The Watchman.... but i doubt the writers of Heroes are intentionally ripping off that show....

that would be like saying 28 Days Later is ripping off Dawn of The Dead for having Zombies kill people....

Quoted from SwapJack Phil, its been hinted in the series that its not necessarily a bomb that blows up NY but a "hero" who;'s powers overload causing him to blow up NY... and plus a bomb exploding in NY is probably the plot of a squillion movies out there... not just The Watchman..... to be fair i havent seen The Watchman.... but i doubt the writers of Heroes are intentionally ripping off that show.... that would be like saying 28 Days Later is ripping off Dawn of The Dead for having Zombies kill people....

SPOILERS AHEAD

SUPER DOUBLE SPOILER SPACE (highlight the yellow copy to read)

In The Watchmen, one of the Watchmen, Ozymandius 'designs' a huge alien and teleports it to the middle of Manhattan.  The energy displacement from the teleportation would cause such an explosion that it would kill half the city.  Ozzy's plan was to trick all the world governments (all anxious to start World War 3) into thinking that an alien invasion was starting.  This would force the governments to put their problems aside and unite to fight this invasion force.

In Heroes, the nuclear explosion is caused by a secret society that would blame an outside force and convince the world of a greater threat.  This threat would unite the world.  blah blah blah blah


Phil

Heroes may not be the most original thing, but it's awesome!  I dislike the long wait for the new episodes!  I'm glad that they were renewed for another season.  From the descriptions at TV.com, the april and may episodes of Heroes sound awesome!  It was one of the first shows to get renewed!!!!

Quoted from Alan_Holman Heroes may not be the most original thing, but it's awesome!  I dislike the long wait for the new episodes!  I'm glad that they were renewed for another season.  From the descriptions at TV.com, the april and may episodes of Heroes sound awesome!  And the final episode in may is a two hour special!  And then it's a wait until September for the next season, because it was one of the first shows to get renewed!!!!

the producers promised a lot of question answering at the end of the season.... and that each season will be a stand alone season..... i guess they don't want people getting frustrated with extended mythological story arcs...like what LOST fans are all complaining about now.

Quoted from Alan_Holman Heroes may not be the most original thing, but it's awesome!  I dislike the long wait for the new episodes!  I'm glad that they were renewed for another season.  From the descriptions at TV.com, the april and may episodes of Heroes sound awesome!  And the final episode in may is a two hour special!  And then it's a wait until September for the next season, because it was one of the first shows to get renewed!!!!

Your blind devotion to this show has been noted, Alan....much like it was noted when you disregarded the show's racial stereotypes....

It's one thing when a show/movie/whatever uses a general plot from another source.  Superheroes band together to fight evil in the world goes all the way back to Greek mythology.  There's nothing new about the concept.  And I doubt you can come up with an original superhero that would keep anyone's interest.  What these guys at 'Heroes' did (if my source is accurate) is plagerism, plain and simple.

There is already a copyright infringement lawsuit files against NBC on this.  Unfortunately, it's from a small party who can't go against the network's team of lawyers, no matter how right they are.  If, however, my sources are right about the Watchmen/Heroes fiasco, NBC will have to go against a bigger opposition.... Warner Communication.


Phil

Quoted from Alan_Holman And "on the nose" is always good because it helps elevate the story from one point to the next.

I'm surprised I didn't catch this earlier, Alan.  This is hysterical.


Phil

an actual lawsuit has been filed? wow, it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. i'm gonna see if i can track down Watchmen and check it out.  sounds like something id like.

You can still buy Watchmen in most comic book shops and Barnes & Noble.  And here's a link regarding the lawsuit:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17676127/


Phil

Pretty good show.  If the pacing remains strong, then I will continue to watch Heroes.  If this show ends up pacing like LOST, I will find something else to watch.

Now, will this show stop killing off the characters I like?  

My personal opinion is that Heroes is a great show. Not completely original... but what really is these days? As long as the execution is great then all is good. And this show delivers the goods.

As for whether it has ripped off Watchmen... are we forgetting a little movie called "Unbreakable?" Although not an alien/human bomb or whatever, it basically used the same premise when Samuel L Jackson kills dozens of people in order to find one hero. I don't get why people are calling it plagiarism. Did anyone accuse Joss Whedon of it when his dark Willow arc completely stole from the dark Phoenix saga in the X-Men?

Anyhoo, great show, and it has staying power. Where as more and more people are turning off from Lost, more people are tuning into Heroes. (And, not sure if this was mentioned, but the idea of having standalone seasons has been scrapped in favor of keeping the cast).

There's a difference between using the same general concept and copying a storyline.  And I doubt that the Dark Phoenix Saga was the first time that a hero went insanely evil.

On a somewhat similar note, there is a series of books edited by George R. R. Martin called Wild Cards that deals with super-powered people and how they affected history in a parallel timeline.  The series may not be as good at Watchmen, but it is much better than Heroes (IMHO).


Phil

Yeah. Definitely not the first time a character went *that* crazy but the idea is the same. There's a dark power that consumes... yadda yadda yadda.

About those books? Are they actual books or graphic novels? They seem pretty interesting and I think I've heard the name before -- probably mentioned somewhere else.

Quoted from American Valentine Yeah. Definitely not the first time a character went *that* crazy but the idea is the same. There's a dark power that consumes... yadda yadda yadda.

What's that saying?  Power cirrupts.  Absolute powers corrupts absolutely?

Quoted from American Valentine About those books? Are they actual books or graphic novels? They seem pretty interesting and I think I've heard the name before -- probably mentioned somewhere else.

Wild Cards is a series of actual books.  I read the first fifteen, or so, way back when.  Then they stopped publishing them.  I found out recently that they started up again, so I'm reading all the books all over again.

The general premise is this:  an alien virus was sent to Earth by a race that was genetically similar to humans.  The race wanted to see how it would react with their own kind.  Ninety-nine percent of those exposed died instantly; they were dealt the black Queen.  Out of the one percent that survived, ninety-nine percent because hideously deformed; they became Jokers.  That last one percent were given superhuman powers; they became Aces.

George R. R. Martin gave this premise to his sci-fi-writing friends and they all ran with it and wrote the series as a 'mosaic novel.'  Much of the stories deal with the Jokers and how they live.  There isn't much comic book superhero stories in it.

I strongly reccommend it.


Phil

okay you know what... i gave this show the benefit of the doubt ......and  that finale was just LAME. WTF was that? they promised so much....

we wanted the big bang - they gave us a big dud.

that was painfully and utterly predictable...the showdown was weak... and they didnt even give us a decent cliffhanger...was there one at all????

my initial feelings were true. this show is lame.

Say what you want about LOST, but their finales own this snooze fest.

Quoted from SwapJack that was painfully and utterly predictable...the showdown was weak... and they didnt even give us a decent cliffhanger...was there one at all????

I don't normally watch the show, but my wife does, and I happened to catch the end and ask her the same thing.

Obviously Sylar is still around, otherwise they wouldn't have taken the time to have that nice long shot of the blood and open sewer.

The only thing I could really think of is whether or not Peter and Nathan are still alive.  There was obviously an explosion, but what's to say that Nathan didn't drop Peter off in zero gravity and hightail it out of there, only to come back and pick him up after he's regenerated himself?

well they kept saying that Peter would survive the blast because he can regenerate..so i assume he is fine...and will make some "Rise of the Pheonix" return next season

I'm sure his brother is dead... that was his story arc.... flirting with evil then saving the world... Darth Vadar style...

i would have perfered it if they ended the season with him finalizing his evil turn...

that would have been way cooler... especially with the dynamic he has with the mom and Claire and Peter.

The finale was bullshit, what a build up for a crap let down. This show had promise but now is FULL of plot wholes.

What 3 fn punches and sylar is beaten.....garbage.

Wtf happen to the heishcian (whatever u spell it) easy way to kill sylar with him around, and he hasnt been there since claired escaped him. And only came back in the future to come episode.

Remember the future to come episode? Did u notice Peter's scar? WHY DOES HE HAVE A SCAR IF HE CAN HEAL?!

They state he has to think of how they feel for him to use their power. HOW CAN U THINK IF U R DEAD, that was more garbage when she pulled off the glass. While Im on that, tell me why the hell he goes invis and TURNS HIS BACK TO SYLAR RIGHT INFRONT OF HIM? Why cuz it was convient to the plot... which is dumb.

Tell me why peter couldnt just fly the hell away by himself instead of nathan takin him  out in space?

What happen to the invisible man, he was suppose to be at the ending fight?

He controlled the nuke power earlier yet, he couldnt do it again?

How and why did sylar let Hiro run up and stab him, he coulda stopped him.. he ran like 10 feet to stab him, more garbage.

seriously the show has more plot holes then swiss cheese.

how this show drew comparisons to LOST is beyond me.... its not even close.

Did the finale have that Watchmen similarity in it?  I didn't watch it, myself.


Phil

I just caught every episode off tv-links.co.uk and I managed to stay hooked through it all.

It's an entertaning show, with many plotholes, but the episodes vary in quality. Some come off as filler and do not drive the show forward, but for the most part it has really solid suspense and great characters.

I've read through this entire thread now, and the dicussions on the show's finale and what not. I was kinda let down by it, but I had already been told it would suck, so it wasn't that bad.

As for the entire racial stereotypes-thing. I think it's laughable. You really have to look for it and disregard all the data that doesn't fit in with it to make it work.
Micah is part black, part white, yet is good with computers. Shouldn't he be asian? Oh and nevermind none of the black recurring characters are bad guys, and the ex-con was actually exhonerated and innocent.

And apparently Hiro is an Asian stereotype because he's nerdy and likes star trek. I suppose when writing a Japanses character we must never let them like star trek and be sort of a geek, because NO Japanese people are like that in real life.

The point is, these characters aren't types, which is pretty evident if you watch the show, they are characters that are defined by neither ethnicity nor race.

After my long hiatus from this thread, I now return.  Heroes was consistantly a great show for the first season.  Every "To Be Continued ..." had me on the edge of my seat, enjoying the build-up of anticipation.  And the season finale was perfect!  The battle at the end showed ordinary people who suddenly found themselves with powers, joining forces to battle for what's right.  Sacrifices were made, and an important message about love was told through brilliantly executed drama.  I'm proud of the show, and proud of all who watched it.  And now I'm waiting for the sequel ... Season Two will be awesome!  Thirty episodes are planned this time around!

Welp, I watched all the episodes online, because I heard it had Midland, TX in it (my hometown)...  and, well I'm disappointed.  It started out good, but kinda went flat for me.  Especially, with working up this whole thing to kill Sylar only to find out he's not dead?  Boo!

Ok, so you saw two episodes of Lost and made a judgment call?  You crazy... Lost has had it's lows, but I think it's a fantastic show!  I like the storylines and the casting is spot on!  I'm waiting for Locke to take over and kick some @ss!  (That and finding out what the heck those invisible monsters are).

Lata!

It must translate differently once it crosses the border, Alan.  I thought this show  (to quote Balt), "Sucked goat balls!"

The acting was only okay.  The storyline dragged on far too long and was unoriginal and the on-the-nose dialogue made me cringe.  The fact that this show made it past four or five episodes is beyond me.


Phil

I used to like the show as well. I think as far as I saw was episode eleven, after that I really just lost interest. I can't believe it got so many Emmy nominations. If it beats out The Sopranos (yes, we all know what you thought of the finale, Bert) for best drama series, I'll probably go insane.


Matt.

Quoted from chism I used to like the show as well. I think as far as I saw was episode eleven, after that I really just lost interest. I can't believe it got so many Emmy nominations. If it beats out The Sopranos (yes, we all know what you thought of the finale, Bert) for best drama series, I'll probably go insane. Matt.

the Emmys - in my opinion - are NOT the measure of great TV - only the measure of what is currently "trendy"

the Sopranos final season was one of -if not the weakest of the series....and Heroes totally bottomed out at the end....with below average writing and acting

yet they got the most nominations.

BAHHHH!

Quoted from chism I used to like the show as well. I think as far as I saw was episode eleven, after that I really just lost interest. I can't believe it got so many Emmy nominations. If it beats out The Sopranos (yes, we all know what you thought of the finale, Bert) for best drama series, I'll probably go insane. Matt.

There was a time, probably around episode 11-12 where I thought the show fell into a slump, where it was kinda just going through the motions and actually got a little uninteresting. Had I needed to wait a week for the next episode, I probably wouldn't have. But since I could just click and see if the next episode redeemed the previous, and since I had nothing else to do, I stayed on. And it got better. Some main characters were killed off, and Sylar got more interesting, but the Finale did not work. They could've made it so much better.

Another problem is the introduction of too many heroes. Don't make this into the 4400 (which I thought was horrible). It's like, right now every new character we meet turns out  to have some kind of power and it's really not that "special" anymore.

And I didn't like the soap opera twists and turns regarding Claire's family.

On a side note, I was totally in love with Charlie in Midland, Texas, and was heartbroken to see her go.

You guys seem to be hating the episodes that I like the most.  lol.

As a Frenchman's point of view, I episodically watched the show and realized I DIDN'T LIKE IT. Too many plot holes. Too many superheroes. Apparently this show was made for computer geeks.

Michel 8)