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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  May 2010 One Week Challenge  /  May 2010 OWC - Who Wrote What
Posted by: Don, May 21st, 2010, 7:57pm
Here the writers are revealed.  Shortly I will update the individual posts with the writer's names.



The Contest by Andrew Ruch - Short, Drama - One contestent finds he might lose more then his apetite after entering a eating contest. - pdf, format 8)

Mythos by Cameron Mitchell (Cam17) - Short, Drama - In the year 2047, the space station Mythos orbits two hundred miles above the earth.  The two astronauts on board receive the horrifying news that an unstoppable virus is ravaging the planet.  They must confront the possibility that they may be the last two humans left alive. - pdf, format 8)

(H)eat of Wartime by Diogo Figueira (Fdiogo) - Short, Drama - Among the survivals of a war, one man must overcome his food philosophies in order to save a seven year old vegan girl. - pdf, format 8)

Living the Lie by George Willson (tubkas) - Short, Drama - A man reels from the discovery of a wife's long hidden secret. - pdf, format 8)

Farm Girl by George Willson (tubkas) - Short, Drama - A daughter deals with her father's chastisement by shooting her food. - pdf, format 8)

City of Carnivores by Herman Chow (coding) - Short, Drama - A teenager attempts to save a vegan from being capture in the City of Carnivores. - pdf, format 8)

In the Grip of Winter by James McClung - Short, Drama - Two brothers lost in the woods must do the unthinkable to survive. - pdf, format 8)

Peacemaker by James McClung - Short, Drama - A vegan and a carnivore find common ground. - pdf, format 8)

Wolves at the Door by Jeff Bush (dreamscale) - Short, Drama - The epic tale is finally told...who is the carnivore? Who is the vegen, and who is the wolf? - pdf, format 8)

No Meat by Jeff Bush (dreamscale) - Short, Drama - Ronald and Katherine are carnivores.  Abigail is a vegan.  What does a backyard BBQ have to do with an eggplant?  - doc, format 8)

Of Cannibals and Cabins by Jeff Bush (dreamscale) - Short, Drama - Ian and Dr. Smith try an convince a carnivore to come over to the light of the vegans. - doc, format 8)

In The Flesh by Jordan Wiebe (theboywhocouldfly) - Short, Drama - A man and a woman have a discussion about their dietary differences and things go from bad to worse to eww. - pdf, format 8)


A Dog eats Dog World by Michel J. Duthin (michel) - Short, Drama - A priest tries to convince a young man to stop eating a dog… - pdf, format 8)

Dumb Animals by Philip Whitcroft - Short, Drama - A corporate representative conflicts with the farmer and makes some disturbing discoveries when she inspects a distinctive farm. - pdf, format 8)

Dinner Serves by R.E. McManus (rendevous) - Short, Drama - Dogglebe decided two people eat. I created them. Hope you enjoy their dinner. - html, format 8)

Red Vs Green by Ramiz Sinanaj - Short, Drama - no logline - pdf, format 8)

A Few Moments of Your Time by Ryan Lee (ryan1) - Short, Drama - A census taker knocks on a man's door.  What follows is an unexpected battle of wits. - pdf, format 8)

Takes Two by Shawn Davis (ledbetter) - Short, Drama - A weekend planned, a couple in love, a trip turned bad. What are the lines between cow and carrot and at what point do they really matter?  - pdf, format 8)

Warren's Choice by Simon Colligan (SiColl007) - Short, Drama - A vegan and and a carnivore argue over their dietary philosophies... - pdf, format 8)

The Butcher's Daughter by Stephen Brown (stebrown) - Short, Drama - A butcher's daughter falls in love with a vegan. - pdf, format 8)

Food For Thought by Steve McDonell (stevie) - Short, Drama - A native tribe comes to grips with social upheaval - pdf, format 8)

Bleeding Green by T. Joe Fraser (Blakkwolfe) - Short, Drama - High School student Heather Kent becomes part of the "IN" crowd, but at a very dangerous price. - pdf, format 8)

Chinese Take Out by T. Joe Fraser (Blakkwolfe) - Short, Drama - Looking for a good time? A Vegas call girl meets up with a cannibalistic john, or so he thinks. - pdf, format 8)

The Lambshank Redemption by Tim Ratcliffe (trojan) - Short, Drama - With a vegeterian diet unwillingly thrust upon him, a convicted felon is inspired to bust out of prison and seek freedom. - pdf, format 8)

Food For Thought by Will Goodwin - Short, Drama - Two older men, one a vegan and the other a carnivore, argue over which dietary plan is superior. But no matter the preference of diet, the end result is all the same. - pdf, format 8)

Vegan Fiction by Zeke Obreogn (Erobreg) - Short, Drama - A man discusses his decision to change from carnivore to vegan. - pdf, format 8)

Taste Buddies by Fiona McLaren - Short, Drama - no logline - pdf, format 8)

Posted by: jwent6688, May 21st, 2010, 8:02pm; Reply: 1
Like I said, My two faves, Mythos by Cameron, and Dumb Animals by Phil-ip Whitcroft.

Is this guy for real or is it Phil's alter ego?


Edti: I see now. Pwhitcroft on the boards. Good work, I shall call you phil jr. if you don't mind. Good job commenting too.
Posted by: Coding Herman, May 21st, 2010, 8:16pm; Reply: 2
Whoa, 6 authors submitted multiple entries. Good work guys.

But really, I think we should limit 2 entries (or maybe even 1) per author. The quality of the second script really suffers even if the first one is brilliant.
Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 8:21pm; Reply: 3
Actually, I'm Phil Jr.

We should limit entries to one per person...especially when it comes to non-SS members.


Phil
Posted by: jwent6688, May 21st, 2010, 8:24pm; Reply: 4

Quoted from dogglebe
Actually, I'm Phil Jr.


Welp, that just went out the window. He probably wouldn't like it anyways.

Good work to all who entered. I couldn't even fathom a script. Pisstake or not.

Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 8:25pm; Reply: 5
Huh...some surprises here for sure.

One surprise is that a bunch of these authors didn't seem to read or comment on a single script. What's up with that?

Congrats all you pissers!  So...how many of these were actually pissers?????
Posted by: Grandma Bear, May 21st, 2010, 8:28pm; Reply: 6
I was typing up a comment as Don locked the thread.

So this is to Phil's question.
Yes, it was the worst one ever IMO. I'm fine with one or maybe even two joke entries, but when they are near 50% out of 34 it' gets quite irritating. I promised to read them all and I did. Except for the Cabin one and that was on principle since it states clearly in the rules that Courier font is a must.

Your choice of assignment is also to blame for the boring reads. Sure, no one has to write a script that takes place in a restaurant or some other dinner situation, but that's what we ended up with. Serious and non serious scripts alike ended up being talking heads type scripts. It got very tiresome near the end and I felt bad for not being able to write better reviews for those who deserved it, but I was really tired of this by the time I reached the end.

There were some good scripts in this one. The one that stood out for me was Dumb Animals. Great work there Cam.

As for my own, PETA, I wanted to write something that didn't scream "me" and I think I succeeded. Except for Rick. I'm curious what gave me away.  :)

Greg, didn't write anything, nor did Sandra and some other readers. I want to thank you all for reading through these. That's really great of you. And to those of you who entered and didn't read any in return....fuck you! If you guys don't read anything by Sunday I will delete my comments on your scripts.
Posted by: khamanna, May 21st, 2010, 8:32pm; Reply: 7
I'm glad I couldn't bring myself to comment on No Meat, Of Canniblah and Cabins, and Wolves At the Door. Wasting time like that...
There were many serious entries and there were many great entries - that means that the theme was not that hard. Or bad.

So many thought that the joke entries were entertaining? I didn't find them entertaining.
The Lambshank Redemption was entertaining. And a real entry!
Posted by: Cam17, May 21st, 2010, 8:34pm; Reply: 8
"There were some good scripts in this one. The one that stood out for me was Dumb Animals. Great work there Cam."

Thanks.  Wish I wrote it.

Good job Whitcroft on that one.  And Pia, I do agree with your assessment of this OWC.  
Posted by: Grandma Bear, May 21st, 2010, 8:37pm; Reply: 9
:B   Sorry....

Yeah, great work there Whithcroft...  :)
Posted by: screenrider (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 8:41pm; Reply: 10
On behalf of my defense, Redskin, Ill and A Dangerous Job, were not intended to be pi**takes, although I did kinda say screw the theme and just try to write interesting stories.   And yes, I wrote them all in one week, which accounts for the typos and what-not.  

My personal favorites: (not necessarily in this order)

The Butcher's Daughter
Better
Mythos
Bleeding Green
A Few Moments of Your Time
Dumb Animals
PETA
Lambshank Redemption

Posted by: c m hall, May 21st, 2010, 8:45pm; Reply: 11
My first time at the OWC and enjoyed it very much -- there was an unexpected feeling of freedom, writing "on demand" and not just  waiting for inspiration / looking at a blank page all day and night.  Congratulations to all who participated and great thanks to SS.

Great thanks to all who read my three scripts (Crudites, Better, I'm Hungry).  They were all serious efforts, intended to interest and entertain the reader.  
Your comments were much appreciated.
Posted by: Grandma Bear, May 21st, 2010, 8:48pm; Reply: 12
I'm listed as Zadora....don't think that will earn me any extra reads...
Posted by: jwent6688, May 21st, 2010, 8:50pm; Reply: 13
Forgot to ackowledge the ones that made me laugh...

Lambshank was a step above the rest. Good job Tim. I'll give Jeff credit for No meat. Lmao. Prolly cuz i was pissard drunk when i read it.

Maybe you were pissard drunk when he wrote it??

Pia?? Why does it read Zadora next to PETA??

Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 8:54pm; Reply: 14
Pia Zadora.  I thought it was funny.


Phil
Posted by: Grandma Bear, May 21st, 2010, 8:55pm; Reply: 15

Quoted from jwent6688


Pia?? Why does it read Zadora next to PETA??



Maybe don has me confused with an aging singer...
Posted by: khamanna, May 21st, 2010, 8:57pm; Reply: 16
I thought Pia's was Red vs. Green. The author is listed as Meisme Isuisme(me is me, Je suis me (I is me)  I guess).
Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 8:58pm; Reply: 17
or horrendous actress...




Phil
Posted by: stevie, May 21st, 2010, 9:05pm; Reply: 18
Dumb Animals was easily the best, both in the writing and in context of the theme. so well done Pjwithcroft.

I also liked PETA, Mythos and A Dog Eats Dog as serious entries. Most of the funny ones were good, so at least we were entertained.

Maybe the next OWC genre could be comedy? Wonder if there's be any serious pisstakes?!!

On a note to Cam, I have to confess miine had the cleveland ref in it. Actually my last four or five scripts have 'hung shit' on Cleveland at some stage! I think jwent said something disparing about living there last year and I sort of adopted it as a trademark.
Posted by: screenrider (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 9:05pm; Reply: 19



Quoted from dogglebe
We should limit entries to one per person.


A good idea.
Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 9:09pm; Reply: 20
Khamanna, WTF's up with that statement about my 3 amazing scripts?  You didn't enjoy them?  Too damn, bad, bitch.  I enjoyed writing them very much, and I also enjoyed reading the various feedback from "terrible" to "funny".

Pia, sorry, bud.  I do apologize to you, because I can tell you were not happy with what went down here.  I hope you understand it was all in good fun...at least it was meant to be.

Good job everyone!
Posted by: khamanna, May 21st, 2010, 9:12pm; Reply: 21
Well maybe there's a special contest for amazing scripts like these three and you could enter them in those.  
Posted by: dogglebe (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 9:15pm; Reply: 22

Quoted from stevie
Maybe the next OWC genre could be comedy? Wonder if there's be any serious pisstakes?!!


Usually, people bitch and moan the loudest when the genre is comedy yet, in this OWC, half the scripts were comedies.  What a bunch of hypocritical bitches and moaners.

And another thing about multiple submissions:  If a filmmaker gave you a week to write a specific script, would you crank out three scripts?  Or spend the whole week perfecting one?


Phil

Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 9:16pm; Reply: 23
I'd crank out 6!
Posted by: jwent6688, May 21st, 2010, 9:17pm; Reply: 24

Quoted from stevie
On a note to Cam, I have to confess miine had the cleveland ref in it. Actually my last four or five scripts have 'hung shit' on Cleveland at some stage! I think jwent said something disparing about living there last year and I sort of adopted it as a trademark.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM
Posted by: greg, May 21st, 2010, 9:18pm; Reply: 25

Quoted from Dreamscale
Khamanna, WTF's up with that statement about my 3 amazing scripts?  You didn't enjoy them?  Too damn, bad, bitch.  I enjoyed writing them very much, and I also enjoyed reading the various feedback from "terrible" to "funny".

Pia, sorry, bud.  I do apologize to you, because I can tell you were not happy with what went down here.  I hope you understand it was all in good fun...at least it was meant to be.


So you apologize to Pia but then call Khamanna a bitch over the exact same subject?  And after all the bitching and moaning you did after the last OWC.  Nice.  

Best of the bunch IMO was In the Grip of Winter.  I was pretty critical about it, but it got the biggest reaction out of me and the most memorable because of its conflict.  So, good job, James.  One pisstake and one of the better conflicts :)
Posted by: Cam17, May 21st, 2010, 9:19pm; Reply: 26

Quoted from stevie


Maybe the next OWC genre could be comedy? Wonder if there's be any serious pisstakes?!!


That's a good idea.  Comedy should be next up.
Posted by: khamanna, May 21st, 2010, 9:23pm; Reply: 27
I liked City of Carnivores best. But there were so many good ones - really enjoyed the entries ( serious entries)
Posted by: stevie, May 21st, 2010, 9:23pm; Reply: 28

Quoted from jwent6688


Is that for real? They used that as a tourism promo?  I suppose at least they didn't bullshit and gloss over all the bad stuff!!!
Posted by: Don, May 21st, 2010, 9:33pm; Reply: 29

Quoted from Grandma Bear


Maybe don has me confused with an aging singer...


In my defense, that is how it was submitted.


Quoted from submission form

Visitors_Name: zadora

Discussion_board_name: me

Movie_Title: PETA

Synopsis: A staunch PETA member accepts a different PETA member as his roommate.


I try to respect how the author wishes to be credited no matter how often it changes...

Don

;)
Posted by: Grandma Bear, May 21st, 2010, 9:40pm; Reply: 30

Quoted from Don


In my defense, that is how it was submitted.



I try to respect how the author wishes to be credited no matter how often it changes...

Don

;)


Well...things get fuzzy late in the night....

Posted by: Cam17, May 21st, 2010, 10:01pm; Reply: 31

Quoted from stevie


Is that for real? They used that as a tourism promo?  I suppose at least they didn't bullshit and gloss over all the bad stuff!!!


Uh, no.  Not an actual tourism video.  Actually, the guy made two.  Here's the other one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

Posted by: Tommyp, May 21st, 2010, 10:37pm; Reply: 32

Quoted from dogglebe


And another thing about multiple submissions:  If a filmmaker gave you a week to write a specific script, would you crank out three scripts?  Or spend the whole week perfecting one?


Phil



Phil, I think most people have forgotten that we pretend we are writing a script for a producer.... which is when we start getting people writing more than one script, and non serious ones.

I think the next OWC should cover that again.... There is a producer who wants to make a film. He is going to ask a bunch of people to write him a script on s epcific genre and theme, and then he is going to pick one of them to shoot. With that mindset, the OWC could be a lot better.
Posted by: Trojan, May 21st, 2010, 10:59pm; Reply: 33
Well done to everyone who entered. It was not an easy challenge this time around, and the quality of the scripts overall probably reflects that. I think Mythos and Dumb Animals were probably my two favourites, and there were 3 or 4 other pretty good ones also.

As for the joke entries, some of them were entertaining but would like to see less of them next time around. Part of the problem became thinking pretty average scripts were meant to be jokes when in reality they were just poorly written. I was sure that script Taste Buddies was done as a joke but the writer doesn't appear to be a member so I guess it was just unintentionally horrible. She's not going to read this anyway so fuck her. Apologies to anybody else that I may have accused of taking the piss that was actually supposed to be a serious entry.

Would've thought all of the board members who submitted scripts would have at least attempted to comment on SOME scripts, but apparently that's not the case. Pretty weak effort IMO.

Thanks to everyone who commented on my script Lambshank. I'll be honest, it was not a serious attempt to meet the challenge criteria. Any story that I thought of to meet the challenge as a drama sounded dull and unoriginal so I didn't bother with them. In the end I decided I'd rather write a story that very loosely meets the challenge but is interesting to read, than one that sticks to it rigidly but is boring. Hopefully a few people got a couple of laughs out of it.

Cheers,
Tim.
Posted by: Grandma Bear, May 21st, 2010, 11:07pm; Reply: 34
I know. Zadora is my name on some other sites...

That was in response to Phil's comment which has been removed...
Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), May 21st, 2010, 11:55pm; Reply: 35
Tim, you are a really good writer...for reals, bro.  Yours was nice...very funny and well set up.  For a pisser, it was tops all the way.

Agree with all you had to say...
Posted by: khamanna, May 22nd, 2010, 12:15am; Reply: 36
I'm sorry, Jeff but you are just dumb.

Tim's wasn't a "pisser". He wrote a serious entry which can't be a contender (he thinks) because it's more of a comedy than drama. That's what "not serious attempt" means...in some cases.
Posted by: The boy who could fly, May 22nd, 2010, 1:51am; Reply: 37
For me Whitcroft and Ryan did the best job, good work you two!  Still got some more to read.  Good job on everyone who tried!
Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), May 22nd, 2010, 1:51am; Reply: 38
Khamanna...well...you are just really dumb and stupid...and...like dumb.

Dude, fuck you.  What the Fuck are you even talking about?  Tim's a great writer...pisser or not.  Pisstakes can be great.  Pisstakes come in all sizes and shapes, all colors, all styles.

He knows what I'm talking about.  You obviously are clueless.

Where's your entry?  Fuck you, bitch!
Posted by: jwent6688, May 22nd, 2010, 1:59am; Reply: 39
Khamanna,

Feel free to call Jeff a dick, asshole, motherfucker, cocksucker, fuckface, ass muncher, homo, turd face, ...you get the point.

If you're gonna call him dumb??? Bring bigger guns.
Posted by: stevie, May 22nd, 2010, 3:43am; Reply: 40
I thought Tommy's suggestion for a future OWC was very good.

And i have one too: we do the paired one which we did last in January 09. If we have a deadline of 24 hours to nominate for the challenge, then we get, say, 30 or so people entering. After the deadline, no one can be in it.
Then, we randomly pair up people, announce the theme and genre and go for it. If we have a time of maybe 10 days to do it in, it should be ok.
This way, there'll be only 15 or 20 scripts to read instead of 40. And the results should be really interesting.
I enjoyed that challenge last year(even though my buddy Jeff didn't like being paired with me!). The opportunity to wriite something under pressure with Pia, Sandra, Sniper, Cam or any of the SS people, would be awesome. Ande being paired with a 'newbie' would be a good experience too.

My two bob's worth anyway...
Posted by: Blakkwolfe, May 22nd, 2010, 7:54am; Reply: 41
A little more history, for those unfamiliar with Ms. Zadora's body of work...

Posted by: Trojan, May 22nd, 2010, 8:44am; Reply: 42

Quoted from khamanna
I'm sorry, Jeff but you are just dumb.

Tim's wasn't a "pisser". He wrote a serious entry which can't be a contender (he thinks) because it's more of a comedy than drama. That's what "not serious attempt" means...in some cases.



Hey don't worry mate I understood what Jeff was saying and he didn't mean anything negative by it. I think there is some confusion amongst different people as to the actual meaning of the word pisser or pisstake or whatever. It's generally Aussie slang and pisser means something that is funny. A pisstake is more of a sendup, like Stevie mentioned before. So you could say my script was a pisstake of the movie Shawshank, but using that word is not saying whether or not it was a serious entry.

Cheers Jeff, glad you liked it. I'd love to see Wolves at the Door filmed someday, I wonder if Christopher Lee would be up for it?!

Tim.

P.S. I like Stevie's suggestion about the next OWC, sounds good.
Posted by: George Willson, May 22nd, 2010, 9:10am; Reply: 43
In my defense, I was also accused of not taking the challenge seriously, and yet I actually did. I tried to avoid the obligatory talking heads discussion about the same things we were inevitably going to hear a hundred times, and just start after the fact. Both of mine were very similar and I prefer Farm Girl over Living the Lie, since it was written second. Neither are terrible, but neither are very good either.
Posted by: Scar Tissue Films, May 22nd, 2010, 9:20am; Reply: 44
Definitley think the Helio rule should be enforced next time.

I think that would have made for 25 entries, which is a good, manageable amount.
Posted by: khamanna, May 22nd, 2010, 9:28am; Reply: 45

Quoted from Trojan



Hey don't worry mate I understood what Jeff was saying and he didn't mean anything negative by it. I think there is some confusion amongst different people as to the actual meaning of the word pisser or pisstake or whatever. It's generally Aussie slang and pisser means something that is funny. A pisstake is more of a sendup, like Stevie mentioned before. So you could say my script was a pisstake of the movie Shawshank, but using that word is not saying whether or not it was a serious entry.

Cheers Jeff, glad you liked it. I'd love to see Wolves at the Door filmed someday, I wonder if Christopher Lee would be up for it?!

Tim.

P.S. I like Stevie's suggestion about the next OWC, sounds good.


Oh, yeah, the Queen parties here and I disturbed her (talking about Dreamscale)

The rule of thumb here to test if it's a pisstake or not - your entry could be filmed, when his is snickering at the theme and the genre.  


And yet I did like one joke entry (I'd imagine this one was to goof around too) - the one with two dinning people who plopped their faces in their plates and died. But I noticed not many did  and for the ending. All I'm saying is - pisstakes are generally a waste of readers time. I know some of you are friends who don't mind the pisstakes but I wouldn't waste time on an entry if I was sure it's just a joke. I don't want to read something that was intended for a trash basket.

Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), May 22nd, 2010, 11:05am; Reply: 46
Khamanna, you are a.....

[Bert's edit:  Takin' things a little too far....]
Posted by: bert, May 22nd, 2010, 12:05pm; Reply: 47

Quoted from Dreamscale
Khamanna, you are a ...


Whoa, whoa!  You need to scale things back a bit, Jeff.

There are numerous arguments on various threads this OWC, and no, you did not start everything -- but you seem to be inserting yourself into all of them.

There are people who do not like the way this OWC went down...at all.

You wrote 3 scripts and admit that all three were [insert my new favorite word here].

And that is fine.

But you need to accept the alternate opinions that it is not fine with some other members -- and you need to stop defending your own position with profanity.

And it is not just Jeff.  Many of you need to step back -- take a breath -- and remember it is just a message board.

Lots of you are showing your asses this time around.  Time to cover them back up.
Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), May 22nd, 2010, 12:26pm; Reply: 48
OK, I feel better now.  I think I just needed to have my ass shining in the moonlight for awhile.

I'm going to blame it on the rain.  No more swearing or being mean from me anymore today.
Posted by: Coding Herman, May 22nd, 2010, 2:44pm; Reply: 49

Quoted from khamanna
I liked City of Carnivores best. But there were so many good ones - really enjoyed the entries ( serious entries)


Thanks for the compliment! Wished more people had read it though.
Posted by: Coding Herman, May 22nd, 2010, 3:01pm; Reply: 50
Finally finished reading all of them, these are the ones that I considered good (in terms of meeting the challenge, story - *drama*, and what not):

Mythos
In the Grip of Winter
In the Flesh
A Dangerous Job
Dumb Animals
A Few Moments of Your Time
The Butcher's Daughter
Bleeding Green
PETA, and...
City of Carnivores (Yes, what can I say? I considered my own script good).

Anyway, congrats to those who finished a script in one week or less.
Posted by: rendevous, May 23rd, 2010, 12:21pm; Reply: 51

Quoted from dogglebe


Usually, people bitch and moan the loudest when the genre is comedy yet, in this OWC, half the scripts were comedies.  What a bunch of hypocritical bitches and moaners.

And another thing about multiple submissions:  If a filmmaker gave you a week to write a specific script, would you crank out three scripts?  Or spend the whole week perfecting one?


Phil



Some interesting points there.

Er, to those who comment on those who appear to not have done any reading lately I offer this comment.

Some of us have demands on out time and attention. Some also read and don't comment. Some will get round to reading eventually. I hope no one in a massive rush. It's the summer. Long days.

Now, where is my trowel? It isn't beside my keys. They are on the shelf. Oh dear.

eR
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