Teaching With Violence by James Williams (jwent6688) - Short, Horror - As a bartender waits for her ride after closing time, she invades the privacy of a mad man who enjoys teaching others lessons. 12 pages - pdf, format 8)

James,

I'm not sure I've read anything from you before, but you're a very solid writer.  No problems with the formatting, and you dialogue was very clean.

Overall, your story worked for the most part.  I didn't buy how quickly Sarah looked at the phone though; I think you should have set that up better.  For example, I used to work at a place with a lost and found and people always made it almost a game to look through people's cell phones.  They open it up, look through them, and share.  So maybe Emily could suggest something like that before she leaves.  I don't know.  As it is, it seems to happen so quickly.

Next thing, I think it just goes on a little too long.  You had me pretty tense for awhile there, but then you threw in the pretty stereotypical cop and it got a little stale.  I think you should have found a way to resolve it with either just Sarah or maybe Emily.  Most cops wouldn't respond that fast anyway.

Finally, the ending left a bad taste in my mouth.  It felt like Saw, if Jigsaw cared about lying.  It's a little weak, in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong though, I liked the set-up and where you went following that, BUT it just kind of petered out towards the end.  I'll be interesting to see how it worked for others though.

But solid work nonetheless.  Good job!

Random Notes

p.1 - add an apostrophe to "Its been a good night"

p.4 - add an apostrophe to "Its okay."

-Matt

I'm not gonna over-think this one.  Bottom line, I enjoyed it.   Lots of tension.   I'm glad Sarah got to live with a lesson learned.   Had a "The Environmentalist" vibe to it.    


Good job.

James, my man!  Just read this.

I think it's pretty good, for the most part.  It does have an "The Environmentalist" feel and overall theme to it.

Couple things to help...

Like Dressel said, there are a few missing apostrophes, as well as missing commas. A few orphans that could easily be executed.

The overall writing was pretty good, but for me, a bit sparse, and I say that because I don't think you properly set your scenes, in terms of visually, and because of that, i couldn't really get a feel for the look of the bar and the spatial reality of what took place.

Just my personally opinion, but it doesn't sound like any bar I'm familiar with, at least not in OH, with all the windows and a glass front door.  It doesn't seem realistic how she cold see and hear him so easily when she was inside and he was out, as well as her being able to see him across the street.

I think you missed a number of Slugs and incorrectly used some Mini Slugs where they didn't quite work.

Here are some things I noted.

Page 1 - Maybe I'm wrong and Kevin can chime in, but I find it hard to believe that 2 young girls are the only ones closing the place.

I also find it very hard to believe that such a small bar (based on what i perceive it to look like) could yield $620 in tips fro 1 night, and I also doubt that counting the money would be the last thing they do (as in, cleaning everything up, washing glasses, putting alcohol away, etc.).  

Page 2 where the 1 girls leaves and drives away.  Yeah, it can be filmed from inside, but the action's actually outside.  I think you should have left the bar here and followed the girl leaving, maybe even showing the guy's car parked in the lot and him sitting inside, watching.

Page 5 - You use "ACROSS THE STREET" as a Mini, but again, it's an EXT. scene and I don't think it quite works the way you have it here.

Page 6 - You write that Sarah's phone rings, and its a text from the freak, but how would he have her #?  You also need a "BACK TO SCENE" here.

"The latch is frozen." - I don't understand this.  Is it winter?  If so, I'd make this known earlier somehow.

Page 8 - You have the man speaking in "O.S.", but based on what you wrote, we're watching him rifle through drawers, so my question is, what are we seeing while he's speaking O.S.?

Page 11 - I'm assuming the man fired the shots at Rick, but I think you should make this a bit clearer.

Taking a fire extinguisher to the face is a big deal and I doubt Rick would recover so quickly.

A few places where I think you incorrectly linked lines that should stand on their own...some other little stuff.

But, all in all, a good read, and an above average script for me.  Good job!  Hope this helps.

Thanks to Don for posting. I haven't posted anything outside of an OWC of late. I thought this had some interesting sinister qualities though. I also, plan on using this guy in a trilogy os shorts maybe to reveal more about him.

Also, thanks to Janet and Kevin for giving this a pre-read. I tighten it down about two pages per thier suggestions. Feeling a bit under the weather today so I will be back to respond in a day or two. Thanks for the reads. All good points that need addressed.

James

I read this before James posted, so not sure if anything changed. But I thought it was rock solid writing and outstanding skill at building tension. James got game.

As for Jeff's questions; you would be surprised the tips two cute girls can make in a little bar if it's busy. The numbers worked. Also, we used to count tips last. Nice to sit down and do it after the hard part of cleaning.

Two girls alone...well, I never let my girls do that, but there are places that do. So not unreasonable. Especially if the neighborhood is ok. Plus I think she was expecting her boyfriend.

I am surprised more people didn't ask about the 151. But he got that right too. For a time, just the liquor would burn. Eventually clothing would get real hot and possibly ignite, but not right away.

PK, Kev, hoped you'd pop in...so...tell me..how in the world would 2 girls make $620 in 1 night in tips?  If that's legit, they're making over $70,00 each in tips alone in a year, at 5 days/week, 52 weeks/year.  That's crazy!!  Not saying it couldn't happen ever, but this kind of stuff doesn't fly for me.  What would the bar gross be?  $6,000?  I want to own this bar or just be a waitress...   ;D ;D ;D

When I read it, I think he had it at 210 each. Which is more reasonable. Here's the thing though Jeff. They need it to be a busy night, and it won't be that busy 5 nights.

15 years ago I used to make over 200 every night. I worked my ass off though, and did only 3 or 4 nights a week.

A hot girl could, inflation, 300 would be no prob. They would have a doorman.

And the bar gross is much less. Lets say you walk up and get a bud light from a cute girl. Costs you 3 bucks. Are you tipping 15%? Of course not. You're leaving at least a buck, maybe 2.

When business was good at my place, we had 2 rooms so 2 bars; 5 bar tenders. We'd do 5 to 6 k sales combined. And the bartenders would make around 200 each. This was on a weekend, which was Thurs, Fri or Sat. And our prices were very cheap. 2.25 for a bud light at the time.

Hey James,

Nice to read new material from you.
This is a solid read, but there were a few sticking points for me.
Nothing that totally derailed me, but did lessen my enjoyment of your work.

It's kinda an unwritten rule in the service industry, women don't close alone.
Especially in places where alcohol is served, there's always at least one guy.
A simple insertion of "Jack's kid had to go to the hospital" or something would help.

I didn't buy Sarah's lack of intensity with the operator.
I like the visual of the man on the pay phone and the lights on Sarah.
She's a deer in headlights, literally, I think she'd say her life's in danger.
He's a pervert that mutilates girls and he's after me! I have his smartphone!
I also think Sarah waits to long too say she's called the police.
That's typically the first thing a victim will say to deter an attacker.
Yet here, your protag withholds that information for a page or two.

I think the back door text generates more suspense if we get it earlier.
It's a nice bonding moment for the audience with your protag.
Then the text serves a dual purpose of exposition and suspense.

The big letdown for me was Sarah's rejected offer to be in a video.
I didn't see it coming and I got excited by the prospect. Really excited.
Instead, we got the inadequate police response.
Had Sarah been smarter with the 911 operator, we wouldn't have that.

I like this script James, you put together a pretty stout scenario.
With some tweaking I think you can facilitate it's power rather than neuter it.

Keep writing and rewriting!

Regards,
E.D.

Really enjoyed this, although I don't have much to add to the above. All good suggestions to improve it. Although only slightly, it's pretty solid as it is.

Good stuff.  

Quoted from Dressel Overall, your story worked for the most part.  I didn't buy how quickly Sarah looked at the phone though; I think you should have set that up better.  For example, I used to work at a place with a lost and found and people always made it almost a game to look through people's cell phones.  They open it up, look through them, and share.  So maybe Emily could suggest something like that before she leaves.  I don't know.  As it is, it seems to happen so quickly.

Thanks for reading Dressel. I went with Emily being beat so she wouldn't wait around for Sarah. Then Sarah's looks at the phone out of boredom.

Quoted from dressel Next thing, I think it just goes on a little too long.  You had me pretty tense for awhile there, but then you threw in the pretty stereotypical cop and it got a little stale.  I think you should have found a way to resolve it with either just Sarah or maybe Emily.  Most cops wouldn't respond that fast anyway.

I would if I could think of a way for Sarah to get herself out of this. I think his intentions were clear to just scare her, rather then harm her.

Quoted from dressel Finally, the ending left a bad taste in my mouth.  It felt like Saw, if Jigsaw cared about lying.  It's a little weak, in my opinion.

I can see that. I wasn't really trying to mimic jigsaw here. To me, the man likes to teach lessons to common sinners. The ones he thinks aren't beyond saving. The original title of this was The Preacher. It had a shitty twist at the end, so I scaled it back and renamed it.

Thanks for the read.... I'm glad you liked it...

James

Quoted from screenrider I'm not gonna over-think this one.  Bottom line, I enjoyed it.   Lots of tension.   I'm glad Sarah got to live with a lesson learned.   Had a "The Environmentalist" vibe to it.

Glad you liked it Screen. Yes, I'm becoming a one trick pony here. A girlfriend who enjoys my scripts told me that i have an underlying hatred of women. I'm gonna have to look into that...


James

BTW, James, I did not like the title at all.  Just doesn't have a good ring to it...otherwise, a pretty good effort, IMO.

James, I was meaning to say, you know I liked the story, but I hate the title, and not thrilled about the log. Good work the rest though.

Quoted from Dreamscale Like Dressel said, there are a few missing apostrophes, as well as missing commas. A few orphans that could easily be executed.

Jeff, thanks for reading. Glad you liked it. I agree with everything you say except orphans. I'm not a fan of that argument unless you struggle with a page limit. If a sentence sounds good IMO, I'm not gonna remove one word just to save a space

Quoted from Dreamscale Just my personally opinion, but it doesn't sound like any bar I'm familiar with, at least not in OH, with all the windows and a glass front door.  It doesn't seem realistic how she cold see and hear him so easily when she was inside and he was out, as well as her being able to see him across the street.

There's a Billy's Martini bar in Mentor i go to. I didn't want to use that exact name. I imagined this place when i wrote it. Its a pretty cool place, and yes, the girls can make $300 on a weekend. Though its rare, i used to date a bartender... Never again.

  

Quoted from Dreamscale Page 2 where the 1 girls leaves and drives away.  Yeah, it can be filmed from inside, but the action's actually outside.  I think you should have left the bar here and followed the girl leaving, maybe even showing the guy's car parked in the lot and him sitting inside, watching.[/quote} I can see that point. I really wanted to stay at the front door when Emily drives off. She scans the parking lot. [quote=Dreamscale]Page 5 - You use "ACROSS THE STREET" as a Mini, but again, it's an EXT. scene and I don't think it quite works the way you have it here.[quote=Dreamscale] That one I was really on the fence about. Its really not a slug but a point of view. Its something new I'm trying. To give it emphasis and stand it alone instead of tossing it into an action sentence with CAPS. I might redo that one. [quote=Dreamscale]Page 6 - You write that Sarah's phone rings, and its a text from the freak, but how would he have her #?  You also need a "BACK TO SCENE" here.

Another experiment. Instead of

BACK TO SCENE

BANG! BANG! BANG! - I just wrote BANG! BANG! BANG! to scare the reader a bit. Gt them in the feel of Sarah's fear at that moment. It was a shot. I may never do it again.

Quoted from Dreamscale "The latch is frozen." - I don't understand this.  Is it winter?  If so, I'd make this known earlier somehow.

I agree with this.

Quoted from Dreamscale Page 8 - You have the man speaking in "O.S.", but based on what you wrote, we're watching him rifle through drawers, so my question is, what are we seeing while he's speaking O.S.?

I tried to show he was dipping his head behind the bar while Sarah struggles with her reastraints. Again, could be too much direction, but i thought it would work well that way.

Quoted from Dreamscale Page 11 - I'm assuming the man fired the shots at Rick, but I think you should make this a bit clearer.

Yes, that could be alittle clearer.

Quoted from Dreamscale Taking a fire extinguisher to the face is a big deal and I doubt Rick would recover so quickly.

Quite right. I will change that.

Thanks again Jeff for the detailed review. I'm glad you liked it

James

No problem guys, I like this title. One of those things I'm just going to disagree with. I think its catchy. Then again, I may be an idiot.

James

Quoted from Electric Dreamer It's kinda an unwritten rule in the service industry, women don't close alone. Especially in places where alcohol is served, there's always at least one guy. A simple insertion of "Jack's kid had to go to the hospital" or something would help.

I think its more likely for the owner to get drunk and ask her to close up alone. I've seen that numerous times while DJ'ing. I usually ended up stayin with her. There was a girl murdered while closing up alone in Northeast Ohio six months ago. I didn't model this after that, but it made me think. Plus, FBI has 20k reward for any info. They haven't a clue who it was.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer I didn't buy Sarah's lack of intensity with the operator. I like the visual of the man on the pay phone and the lights on Sarah. She's a deer in headlights, literally, I think she'd say her life's in danger. He's a pervert that mutilates girls and he's after me! I have his smartphone! I also think Sarah waits to long too say she's called the police. That's typically the first thing a victim will say to deter an attacker. Yet here, your protag withholds that information for a page or two.

I heard the lack of intensity on the phone before. I see thats a problem. As far as her saying it to the man, I just figured her scared shitless until she grasped the situation. I enjoy how he calmly puts his accertiveness for her to sit down.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer I think the back door text generates more suspense if we get it earlier. It's a nice bonding moment for the audience with your protag. Then the text serves a dual purpose of exposition and suspense.

Thats a good suggestion. I like that better...

Quoted from Electric Dreamer The big letdown for me was Sarah's rejected offer to be in a video. I didn't see it coming and I got excited by the prospect. Really excited. Instead, we got the inadequate police response. Had Sarah been smarter with the 911 operator, we wouldn't have that.

ha, sorry to get you excited, but thats one of my favorite parts. When all he wanted was the whore to write on a chalkboard and she refused? Love it.


Thanks for reading E.D. I look forward to more from you as well..

James

Quoted from jwent6688 No problem guys, I like this title. One of those things I'm just going to disagree with. I think its catchy. Then again, I may be an idiot.

My two cents:  I think the title comes off sounding like a comedy.  Would have never guessed horror.

Quoted from jwent6688 I think its more likely for the owner to get drunk and ask her to close up alone. I've seen that numerous times while DJ'ing. I usually ended up stayin with her. There was a girl murdered while closing up alone in Northeast Ohio six months ago. I didn't model this after that, but it made me think. Plus, FBI has 20k reward for any info. They haven't a clue who it was.

Yikes, terrible story.
But yeah, any excuse is better than nothing.
It tells me I'm in the hands of an author that isn't going to insult my intelligence.

Quoted from jwent6688 ha, sorry to get you excited, but thats one of my favorite parts. When all he wanted was the whore to write on a chalkboard and she refused? Love it.

No no, sorry, I wasn't very clear, I guess.
I meant when Sarah offered to make a video for the killer to save herself.
I thought" She's gonna somehow beat him at his own game, AWESOME!"
I was thinking, "How's James gonna write his way out of this one!"
Ditch the cop all together and make it a kinky bloody battle of wits.
Cops always ruin the magic, because they're cops. :P

Regards,
E.D.

Hmm, nice story here. I mean, you took me on a rollickin' ride and it was definitely suspenseful and I really wanted to read on. Seldom do horror 'shorts' on SS really grip me with 'edge of the seat stuff' like this did, so high praise on that.

But I have to agree with the substance of what's been said by previous posters. The story seems to suffer when the Cop gets there. I was sure he was going to have a 'look-see', see nothing, and then pop off, which would have ramped the tension up imo. It just fell a little flat with the cop's involvement imo, kind of degenerating into by the numbers 'horror schlock'.

I would have preferred you kept up the cat n mouse game for a bit and even left it open-ended. All JMO. I just think changing the end could make it even better and not so stereotypical horror.

Really good stuff though.  And, I don't have a prob. with the title - reminded me lil bit of 'A History of Violence'.

Thanks for the read LC,

I'm glad you liked it and you don't usually dig horror shorts. I'll take that as a compliment. Beginning to see a glaring problem with the cop. Gonna have to find away to work him out of the equation. Anywho, glad you found it suspenseful.

James

Hey James,

I liked parts of this.  Other parts had issues, IMO.  

I had to wonder if even the dumbest serial killer would put those photos on his cell.  

I liked the setting, simple but atmospheric.  Girl vs. killer.  The cop doesn't add much to the drama and I wonder if you could find a way to resolve the story without his interference.

On page 5, I'm not sure how a guy could talk on and then hang up a pay phone from the front seat of his car.

I didn't really understand the significance of the ending.  He says he's trying to help her.  But, help her with what exactly?  Would getting sprayed in the face with a fire extinguisher really incapacitate the cop?  Also, the cop asks her "What did you do?"  But, he was right there the whole time, so it seems he wouldn't need to ask this.

I guess in the end, when she utters her final line of "I just lied,"  I failed to understand what she was feeling or what she had learned from all this.  The "Teaching" part of teaching with violence is what I didn't get.  Title ain't bad, though.  Reminds me of a nun teacher I had in fifth grade.  

So, I liked the concept here but it left me with too many questions.

Hey Ryan, thanks for the read...

Quoted from Ryan1 I had to wonder if even the dumbest serial killer would put those photos on his cell.

Again, he left it by accident. He came back to get it desparately. If that doesn't work for you, the entire story is null and void from that part.  

Quoted from Ryan1 I liked the setting, simple but atmospheric.  Girl vs. killer.  The cop doesn't add much to the drama and I wonder if you could find a way to resolve the story without his interference.

That seems to be the resounding theme here. I just thought the cop upped the antee a little. When he sets her on fire, I like watching the cop struggle with how to handle the situation

Quoted from Ryan1 On page 5, I'm not sure how a guy could talk on and then hang up a pay phone from the front seat of his car.

I've seen lots of payphones on polls at gas stations and such. Though, pay phones are becoming obselete, I've driven up to one and made a call on several occasions.

Quoted from Ryan1 I didn't really understand the significance of the ending.  He says he's trying to help her.  But, help her with what exactly?  Would getting sprayed in the face with a fire extinguisher really incapacitate the cop?  Also, the cop asks her "What did you do?"  But, he was right there the whole time, so it seems he wouldn't need to ask this.

He was moreso teaching her that snooping and lieing can get someone in trouble. Again, maybe I could've made this more clear. Also, He never killed the whore, just taught her a lesson. This obviously needs to be expanded upon.

Its just a tension piece. I like it, but it needs work. Thanks again...

james

Hey James.  What's up?

This stretched way beyond the limits of believability for me.  Come on, really?  An Ohio cop getting there that fast?  Are you sure we live in the same state?

:-)

One word kept ringing through my head while I was reading:  'Suspenseful'  This story was very suspenseful and you built the tension up really well.

The story did kind of peter out at the end, but I can't exactly put my finger on why the ending wasn't as intense or as satisfying as the beginning and middle.  It might be the cop, I don't know.  I, myself, hate writing cops.  It sucks because you can't write a cop without the stereotypes.  A cop's job IS to be a stereotype.

I did like how the cop had to make a judgement call on what to do in that extreme situation, though, so I don't think losing him is the answer for a better ending.

Well, maybe.  Maybe you could have Sarah try to but not be able to call the police for some reason, then Emily comes back to check the back door again when Sarah doesn't reply to her text and Emily's the one put in that strange situation instead of the cop.

A lot of maybes here.  Sorry.  Just got my brain thinking and I don't do that too often, so good job getting my attention.

And speaking of getting my attention, I loved the title for this.  (Don't get too proud, though.  People have DESPISED some of my titles, so maybe I'm not that good a judge.)  But it really grabbed my attention.

Well, from what I've read of you, you definately have the gift to move comfortably from comedy to thriller and back.  Gotta admit, I'm jealous.  I can't write comedy worth shit.  I despise writing it.  Everything feels so fake and forced when I do it.  So good job and congratulations on that gift.

And good job on this story, in general.  Very solid story.

- Mark

Youngstown!

I missed that you read this. Thanks. Believe it or not some cops in the upper east suberbs actually do make it to a distress call that quick. I've seen many a bar fight in Mentor. I can't believe how fast they get there sometimes. Too soon IMO.

Yeah, This one is missing something. So far none of the suggestions I've got have lit up anything in my brain as far as where to take it. I was thinking about making this a trilogy, which wouldn't make this piece so incomplete and unsatisfying IMO.

The title is staying. I think it stands out more then the normal fair. I'm glad you liked it. My M.O. on these boards is being able to write good tension... to a story that usually ends with less flare then it started. I'm still working this one in my head. I've obviously got to change something.

James

James,

read this one just now. I think you did pretty good with it. It was quite tense for a while.

I think you can skip the whole bit in the beginning with Emily though. At least a big chunk of it. It sets something up that is self explanatory just a page or so later.

I truly enjoyed the Man being twisted and thought the fish hooks in the nostrils worked well. You had me there, but then you disappointed me with a let down pedestrian ending with the cop and all. I wanted something better. A cool twist or something really deep. Not something so television cliche that it was almost a surprise.

Other than that....GREAT job dude! You really had me for most of the story!

Pia  :)

Thanks Pia,

I'm really struggling as far as where to go with this one. I was hoping I would catch a suggestion or two from here to light a rewrite fire under my ass. So far, its mostly just been reocurring problems for the readers. Nobody seems to like the cop, I'm working with that.

The original was three pages longer and had a twist that far too conveniently fell into place. The "man" set this all up on purpose because Sarah was skimming tips from Emily every night. And Sarah was more of a bitch. I know I have a good premise here, it just falls flat in the end. I'm far from giving up on it. I think it could be a nice competition short if I can figure a better ending. Thanks for the read... This was how "So Pretty" started out for me. I'm just searching for that one good idea of how to end this better.

James

Quoted from jwent6688 I'm just searching for that one good idea of how to end this better. James

The answer is obvious...

What if at one point we see a newspaper on a table with a headline that reads, "Serial Killer Still At Large".  

As it turns out Emily is the serial killer.  She returns, kills the Madman, saves Sarah in a nick of time, then turns on her like a rabid dog.  Or better yet, lets her go as long as Sarah promises to keep her secret.  

:D

Don't know if I have a better suggestion for an ending. I know if it was my story I'd try to make some twist where Sarah wins over the man. Right now she's just a helpless girl who's victimized and then saved by men...Give her some balls.  ;)

Btw, an emplyee of ours is from Jamaica. One year on his birthday I made him a rum cake. I didn't know about Bacardi 151 so I followed the recipe and poured a pint over the cake when baked. We all got pretty tipsy...even the kids...   I'm an idiot!! lOL!

Thanks for the sugestion Screen. That over complicates the plot IMO. Several have suggested they want to see Sarah work her own way out of this. That's where I'm heading. It all comes down to that video.

Quoted from Me Btw, an emplyee of ours is from Jamaica. One year on his birthday I made him a rum cake. I didn't know about Bacardi 151 so I followed the recipe and poured a pint over the cake when baked. We all got pretty tipsy...even the kids...   I'm an idiot!! lOL!

Thats one flammable cake. Can't believe it didn't go up when you lit the candles. Meh, I'm sure the kids had fun... and went to bed early.

James

Quoted from jwent6688 Thanks for the suggestion Screen. That over complicates the plot IMO. Several have suggested they want to see Sarah work her own way out of this. That's where I'm heading. It all comes down to that video.

I don't think so.  >:(

I'll be curious to read the rewrite, though.

All the best

Quoted from Grandma Bear Right now she's just a helpless girl who's victimized and then saved by men...Give her some balls.  ;)

Yeah! This is one of those rare 'shorts' with real plot build up and suspense. Have her turn the tables on the creep. I'm really looking forward to the next draft.

Meh, the women have spoken. Now, to find an ingenious way for Sarah to get out of her predicament. E.D. touched on it before. It all has to come down to that moment of pause he has when she says she'll make his video.

Screen, I am no way tossing your suggestions aside. Though, I don't even reveal motive for the "man". Having Emily be a killer also without motive is just ridiculous IMO. Its a short. A tension piece.

Gonna work hard here and see if I can't make the women of SS sit back and smoke a cigarette after Sarah weeds her way to victory. Sarah's gonna get some balls... Brass ones...

James

Hi - I liked this - read some of the feedback, not all of it - tension good to start but lack a little in the middle. I agree the cop is a bit of a problem as it just looks like res dogs - it may be possible to introduce him earlier (checking the bar or drinking). I wasn't too sure about what lesson had been learnt - it was fairly clear that she had done nothing wrong, so it's a little unjustifiable (unless you get her to do something wrong earlier) - I think you have to make the man either hinged or unhinged - he sounds too normal toward the end - in Saw there is a perverse logic, while here there just appears to be a change of mood with the man...

Good script, probably my favorite script that you wrote. I'm looking forward to the next draft.

Thanks for the read Sic,

I'm glad you felt the tension. Unfortunately, at one point in a horror it has to stop and the story has to develop. Many aren't pleased with the way i did it. Not really pleased myself after the feedback.

Quoted from Forgive I wasn't too sure about what lesson had been learnt - it was fairly clear that she had done nothing wrong, so it's a little unjustifiable (unless you get her to do something wrong earlier) - I think you have to make the man either hinged or unhinged - he sounds too normal toward the end - in Saw there is a perverse logic, while here there just appears to be a change of mood with the man...

I may use this guy again, His motives were not as heavy as they were in for jigsaw. He tries to teach people who only commit small sins, not moral sins like the people in SAW. Plus, he's not really a killer. He didn't kill the college student or Sarah and genuinely felt bad about shooting the cop.

Anywho, thanks for the feeback....

Quoted from Crookedowl Good script, probably my favorite script that you wrote. I'm looking forward to the next draft.

Thanks for the read crooked, glad you liked it. Its got potential, just needs a better ending and I may send this off to a competition or two. Looking forward to some of your writing. Make sure you post your username along with the script so I find it...

James

Quoted from jwent6688 Looking forward to some of your writing. Make sure you post your username along with the script so I find it...

I posted a short script a few days ago, and I'm waiting for it to come up on this site.

The tension whenever she looks at the picture and he's banging at the door is palpable. Although it kind of peters out after he calls her from the pay phone. I did enjoy your script over all, very solid writing style you have.

There are just a few questions that stick out in my mind such as:

Why would she answer the guys phone?
I wonder if the boyfriend ever shows up? he says he's on his way then we never hear from him again.
Why is she rummaging through his pictures in the first place?

The theme of teaching her a lesson for lying I thought was very creative. And I thought the guys dialogue at the end was perfect psychopathic jibber-jabber. Good stuff, keep up the good work, mate.

Quoted from tonybe78 Why would she answer the guys phone?

Why do people go investigate strange noises in the dark when there's a killer on the loose? Because it makes good film.

Quoted from tonybe78 I wonder if the boyfriend ever shows up? he says he's on his way then we never hear from him again.

He was supposed to pick her up after her shift. He just passed out. In the first draft I had the Man set this all up. He ruffied her boyfriend so he would be late.

Quoted from tonybe78 Why is she rummaging through his pictures in the first place?

I see this happening in real life. If you're dumb, drunk enough to leave your phone behind, you'd be surprised how easily people would toss about their morals and invade anothers privacy for fun. Or, she was being nice and trying to figure out which customer it was. I am rewriting it so it is a customer she knows. The one who left her the fifty dollar tip.

Thanks for the read, I'm glade you liked it. As I do with alot of my shorts, I may not re-post this unless I think its contest worthy or a filmaker hits me about it.

James

Hey James,

I always enjoy your stuff, so I just gave this one a read and figured I would toss in my two cents, not that you need it.  Anyway, like everyone else, I enjoyed this and breezed through it.  I’m in the process of reading rhrough the comments, so I apologize if anything I post is repetitive.

I see that Dressel referenced Jigsaw in his comment.  For me, it was more Kevin Spacey from “Se7en” which I thought was a totally terrific character.  At some point later in the read you mentioned a slight tilt of the head before he dropped the match, and that was what came into my mind.  In any event, I thought it was a terrific read, and I kind of feel like you might be able to expand on “The Man” a bit.  I’d like to read more about his “lessons”.

Below are a couple of real-time notes I took as reading:

So far, I’m enjoying the back and forth between Emily and Sarah.  Reads nice and easy.

P. 2

You have – “Emily Walks o her car…”

You capped “Walks”

P. 3

Ha – well, you’ve kicked it up a notch with this series of pictures!

P. 3

Nice job with the guy looking for his phone.  Is it his?  I’m guessing no, but let’s see.  Def a nice touch though.

P. 4

Question – if Sarah’s pot head BF won’t pick up, then why not just call the cops, or at the very least, another firend.  Nitpicking, I know, but it just popped into my head.

P. 5

“You lied to me.”

Ha, guess I was wrong!  And you cleared up Sarah calling the cops for me.  Than you, Sir.

P. 6

“About time asshole”

I know she would be really stressed out, but I think you would be better off without the dialouge here.  Especially considering that Sarah just heard some rustling in the kitchen.  More likely than not, I feel like she woul just ignore the text, or at the very least check it without actually saying anything.  Again, nitpick though.

P. 9

“An old school baptism.”

Ruh-roh.

Okay, so I kind of flew through the last few pages, cause’ I got really caught up in the story.  Nice job, dude.  Really enjoyed this one.  As I said, I wouldn’t mind seeing a little more form this guy.  I think you have enough here to differentiate him from some other characters that we have seen in recent years, but not sure what your plans are for it.  

Just read through about half of the comments: I also really dug the whole image of the pros writing on the chalkboard.  Creepy and weird, but it fit.

Also, you sure Jim Tressel ain’t “The Man”?  Seem to fit the profile!

Haha, thanks for the read and best of luck.

Craig

P.S.  Just read a few more comments, and I see where you were asking for different endings.  What if, Sarah out creeped The Man.  Meaning, what if she was a bergouning (sp.) serial in her own right and she somehow talked her way out of it only to take him down.  Once the cop arrives, she goes all doe eyed and plays it off.  Anyway, just a thought.

Quoted from Craiger6 I see that Dressel referenced Jigsaw in his comment.  For me, it was more Kevin Spacey from “Se7en” which I thought was a totally terrific character.  At some point later in the read you mentioned a slight tilt of the head before he dropped the match, and that was what came into my mind.  In any event, I thought it was a terrific read, and I kind of feel like you might be able to expand on “The Man” a bit.  I’d like to read more about his “lessons”.

Is some of what I'm struggling with. I like this character, I want him to win eventhough the cop and Sarah really didn't do anything wrong. I just like cheering for the bad guy sometimes. I loved Se7en, and essentially, Kevin Spacey did win.

Quoted from Craiger6 “About time asshole”

I was thinking of removing that. I want people to like Sarah because, at least to me, it adds to the tension when you feel for your characters.

Quoted from Craiger6 Also, you sure Jim Tressel ain’t “The Man”?  Seem to fit the profile!

Ha ha, thanks for that. Here in Ohio we're all grief stricken with the sweater vest gone bad.

I've received a couple of emails about this recently, So I'm hilding off on a rewrite until I hopefully hear back from one of the film makers. I would probably wait and rewrite it per their limitations, but who knows if I'll ever hear back from them.

Thanks again for the read....

James

James

Great opening to this, I loved the premise of finding a phone with all these graphic pictures just as you are closing up on your own in the dead of night. Fantastic tension is created straight away and heightened once realising the proprietor has come back to collect it. I was instantly engaged in the script.

See about replacing “and” with commas in the prose, adds a greater fluidity to the read in my opinion.

I think your writing in general, while being relatively clean and direct feels a bit staccato and stuttered. Too many full stops instead of commas which I think help sentences to blend into one another more seamlessly. For example:

“Sarah finishes. Places the money into two neat stacks. She grabs another handful”
Could be written as:

“Sarah finishes, places the money into two neat stacks, grabs another handful”

or

“She navigates through the menu until she finds the picture gallery. She opens it.”

I always try to avoid repeating the pronoun in same block of description. Sometimes it can’t be helped when describing a number of actions close together but in this case I think it would read better as:

“She navigates through the menu until she finds the picture gallery, opens it.”

Simple but effective.

or

“The man stares at her for a moment. He watches as the matches burn close to his fingertips. He waves them out”

Could be written as:

“The man stares at her for a moment. He watches as the matches burn close to his fingertips, waves them out”

Maybe this is a conscious decision on your part to break up the sentences like that, fair enough. I just find it disrupted the rhythm at times.

Wow, 620 in tips in one night, this place must be doing incredible business!

I would insert some reactions from Sarah as she flicks through the increasingly disturbing photos. Obviously she’s gonna be freaked out but you never indicate this in the action lines. Also, she seems very relaxed when the man bangs again on the door considering what she has just seen on the phone. I would’ve hit the roof, feared the worst i.e. that this person had come back for they’re phone. Instead, as Sarah walks to the door to tell him they’re closed, she actually “sighs”. This came across as being much too lax, didn’t ring true.

If you are going to call the antagonist “Man” for the entire script, which is perfectly fine in my books, you should capitalise it in the prose since its acting as the character’s name.

Did Rick really need Gretchen to “Send everyone here now!”

Unfortunately, despite the promising intro I didn’t think the rest quite it lived up to it. The story took a more formulaic, familiar route which left me disappointed and cursing a missed opportunity. The whole teaching lessons through violence (I know the title said it all so I don’t know what I was expecting) has been done to death especially since the Saw franchise and frankly I’m over it. There was nothing new or unexpected here, just some nutcase thinking he go around hurting people in the name of enlightenment, bestowing his victims with a greater appreciation for life by bringing them closer to death, etc.

Even with this twisted logic, his reasons for putting Sarah through the ringer were even more arbitrary, just because he lied to her? It felt too scant and incidental, there wasn’t enough of a motivation, then again he’s obviously crazy so trying to find reasoning in his actions is wishful thinking at best.

Anyway, I like the premise you got here, James, lots of potential, just a shame the rest didn’t excite me as much.

Col.

Col., Thanks for the read. Your comments come as no surprise to me. Everyone else shared similar thoughts to this. The ending did not live up to the beginning. This is one I should rewrite, but haven't touched a bit. There's been no interest and, frankly, had enough film makers turn my shorts into cringe-worthy film that it just doesn't appeal to me to write shorts any more (Outside of some fun competition)

Quoted from Colkurtz8 I think your writing in general, while being relatively clean and direct feels a bit staccato and stuttered. Too many full stops instead of commas which I think help sentences to blend into one another more seamlessly.

You're not the first to question my style of writing for this. Of late, I'm trying to get away from it, but still find myself doing this at times. It's very inconsistent to say the least.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Wow, 620 in tips in one night, this place must be doing incredible business!

Surprised how many people can't believe this. It's a moot point really that I could easily fix by simply changing some numbers, but I dated a bartender that worked at a small, respectable pub. She broke 300 on a Saturday here and there. During the week she would often come home early with less than 50 in her pocket. I did want it to seem like a killer night, because it prompted Emily to leave without waiting for Sarah's ride. Again, should just be toned down to avoid question.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 I would insert some reactions from Sarah as she flicks through the increasingly disturbing photos. Obviously she’s gonna be freaked out but you never indicate this in the action lines. Also, she seems very relaxed when the man bangs again on the door considering what she has just seen on the phone. I would’ve hit the roof, feared the worst i.e. that this person had come back for they’re phone. Instead, as Sarah walks to the door to tell him they’re closed, she actually “sighs”. This came across as being much too lax, didn’t ring true.

Thought I gave her a pretty good reaction when the man bangs on the door. She drops the phone, jumps back, and grabs her chest. Also, I didn't think that breaking out of the SERIES OF PICTURES montage to show Sarah's reactions would serve the script much better. I feel those are one of the things the film maker has the choice on.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Did Rick really need Gretchen to “Send everyone here now!”

Pictured this at a bar in small town Ohio that I frequent. If a cop gets shot here, bet your ass their going to send everyone.

Again, the ending? I know it should be better. I wrote this pretty quickly after the premise popped into my head. Not working on any shorts outsied of an OWC til I finish a feature. Made a promise to myself. If I can't write a feature, best go do something else. Huge thanks for the intuitive review Col.

James

James

Quoted from jwent6688 Surprised how many people can't believe this. It's a moot point really that I could easily fix by simply changing some numbers, but I dated a bartender that worked at a small, respectable pub. She broke 300 on a Saturday here and there. During the week she would often come home early with less than 50 in her pocket. I did want it to seem like a killer night, because it prompted Emily to leave without waiting for Sarah's ride. Again, should just be toned down to avoid question.

-- You're right, it’s immaterial to the story and can be easily remedied which is why I just made a short, one line reference to it. I know bartenders who make that kind of money from time to time at the weekends so it’s not beyond impossible.

However, you do say below that you envisaged the establishment as "a bar in small town Ohio" Would it do the kind of business that yields those sort of tips? I thought rust belt-ed Ohio still hadn't recovered from the heavy industry collapse. :P

I do appreciate how you were thinking laterally in terms of giving Emily reason to be tired so she would want to head home early thus creating the situation. It's more important that your mind is working in that way than merely overshooting a figure.

Quoted from jwent6688 Thought I gave her a pretty good reaction when the man bangs on the door. She drops the phone, jumps back, and grabs her chest. Also, I didn't think that breaking out of the SERIES OF PICTURES montage to show Sarah's reactions would serve the script much better. I feel those are one of the things the film maker has the choice on.

-- It was the expression "sighs" that I mainly had a problem with. It just sounded too calm given the context.

Hey James,

I certainly owed you a read my friend and this was top of the pile so why not jump in and tell you what I thought.

The writing is immaculate, lots and lots of white space and your choice of words is particularly good. It’s more of a learning experience for me reading this, really. There was only one grammatical mistake I noticed:

Page 2:  “Emily Walks to her car and unlocks her door” the “w” in walks doesn’t need to be capitalised.

The story is very tense, superbly set up with a mysterious antag who is very angry obviously.

The ending was very flat though, it never felt like a resolution to the story IMO.

Overall, this is a solid piece of work and I for one very much enjoyed it

Great work! :)

Steve

Hi James.
Good one. Intence and thrilling. I thought he is gonna kill or get killed. Anyway good job. On the top of page 9 you wrote he  rubs noses on the cell phone. Did you mean he rubs his nose on the cellphone?

Hope it helped.

Regards
Jahongir.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 -- You're right, it’s immaterial to the story and can be easily remedied which is why I just made a short, one line reference to it. I know bartenders who make that kind of money from time to time at the weekends so it’s not beyond impossible.

It's not a big sticking point, but others have mentioned it. Maybe my ex was giving blow jobs in the kitchen for $20 a pop. Wouldn't surprise me.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 However, you do say below that you envisaged the establishment as "a bar in small town Ohio" Would it do the kind of business that yields those sort of tips? I thought rust belt-ed Ohio still hadn't recovered from the heavy industry collapse. :P

Screw you Col. Cleveland's awesome. Just watch this and tell me you don't want to move here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

James

Quoted from CoopBazinga The ending was very flat though, it never felt like a resolution to the story IMO. Overall, this is a solid piece of work and I for one very much enjoyed it Great work! :) Steve

Thanks for the read, Steve. Others agree that the ending lets this script down. It was a premise that, once it popped into my head, I sat down and wrote the whole thing. If I find a way to keep the level of tension all the way through til the end, this would make a nice little competition piece IMO. Thanks again.

James

Quoted from Jahon Bahrom On the top of page 9 you wrote he  rubs noses on the cell phone. Did you mean he rubs his nose on the cellphone?

Good point. It should read that he rubs his nose against the cell screen. Nobody else pointed that out. Thanks for the read, glad you liked it...

James

James, I thought I owed you a read so here's what I made of this.

Well...I really enjoyed it. I thought you built the tension well and the 'Man' was very dark and mysterious.  I wont rabbit on about everything as you've had plenty of reviews already so I'll just say this was well written and enjoyable.

My only niggle is with the end.  I felt it was a bit sudden and I was a bit disappointed. Did he do all that just because she lied?

Good work.

Thanks for the read, Alffy.

It's painfully obvious to me that the end of this script does not pay tribute to the beginning. Everyone feels the tension early, but despise its conclusion. I should rewrite this, but haven't. Always hoped I'd hear from a film maker on this and then I would. So far... Nadda.

Quoted from alffy Did he do all that just because she lied.

No. She was just an innocent bystander who got caught up in this because he left his cell. He needed it back. That was a sticking point for a few. Makes him look daft for doing so. I can see that.

This was an experiment of diving into the mind of a mad man for me. He believes he's doing the world some good. It's not in the script, but he didn't even kill the girl in the pictures, just taught her a lesson in his mind...

Glad you liked it. I let my mom read this. She hasn't looked at me the same since. Lol.

James

The more I thought about it the more I thought, why didn't he kill them both? He came across as a menacing character with a lot of dark secrets but he leaves behind two witnesses, one a cop.  Maybe I'm just twisted but I'd have liked him to finish the job and bump them off lol.

Quoted from alffy The more I thought about it the more I thought, why didn't he kill them both? He came across as a menacing character with a lot of dark secrets but he leaves behind two witnesses, one a cop.  Maybe I'm just twisted but I'd have liked him to finish the job and bump them off lol.

Quite right. I, on the otherhand, envisioned this bad man in a trilogy of shorts. I didn't want you to hate on him so. Everyone cheers for Freddie, Jason, Michael fucking Meyers! This guy doesn't kill. He just teaches lessons according to him...

I hoped I made Sarah a likeable character for the short time I had. I did not want her to die. She barely even got hurt. But, had the scare of a lifetime. That's what I was aiming for. I probably won't ever revisit the "Man" character. But, I like the open ending of this...

Maybe you'll see him again sooner than you think....

James

Excellent story.  I'd like to read the rest of the trilogy.  if you haven't written it yet, you should, IMO.

Quoted from M.Alexander Excellent story.  I'd like to read the rest of the trilogy.  if you haven't written it yet, you should, IMO.

Thanks M. I haven't written it, unfortunately. But if I ever do I will let you know.

James

Hey James - Loved the script. Awesome job. Very intense. I'm mad though, you left me wanting more. Hurry up and write some more. Best of luck on future scripts - Dirk

Hey James,

The dramatic situation for the girl is good, really threalling. She is alone and no one can help her right now, when the maniac is behind a thin glass door.

But, IMO, the idea of the story is not clear. Is it: "Lie leads to trouble"? I believe, lying is the only right way to be saved in such a situation. The girl shouldn't be teached...

It could be a real lesson for the girl if she has always cheated, incorrectly calculated values in the bills, hided a part of money from Emily and thought that lying was a normal condition of dolce vita. Then this incident could be usefull for her. An arc of the character appears.

The storyline of the girl's boy-friend isn't finished. IMO, it should have a 3-rd act.

Yet I think this script has a good potential. And I wish you to find a producer to film this story.


Best regards,
Julia.

Dirk, Julia...

Thanks for reading. I always did plan to tweak the ending of this a bit. Was talking to a film maker for who was interested in it, but they fell off the map. I don't plan to rework it unless someone comes along wanting to put it on film...

James

Quoted from jwent6688 I don't plan to rework it unless someone comes along wanting to put it on film... James

I would quite happily film this if I had the experience and money to do so, but alas, I don't :/...

Hey James,

As you can probably already tell, I really liked this one. You build some great tension with the "BANG! BANG! BANG!" and from then it just gets more intense. Heart was really racing in this one. You have an incredibly visual way of storytelling, which I admire.

I understand you don't intend on reworking this one, but hell, I've already written my notes, so you're getting them anyway :P

I feel that you could spend a little more time describing your main character. We get an age and after that you leave us in the dark in terms of her actual appearance. But, having said that, you leave it open for imagination as well.

I've already mentioned the excellent way in which you build the tension in this one, but I couldn't help notice a moment where you can capitalize on that. By simply not showing us that Rick is in the building, you could have made his entrance a little more surprising. I don't know about others, but for me, knowing that Rick was in the building deducted from the excitement a bit.

Really great work on this one. You have a well-developed writing style and way of storytelling.

Good Luck!

Daniel

Not much I can add that hasn't already been said: this script is solid. Maybe some dialogue could be condensed a little at the start so we get into the meat a little quicker, although the dialogue intros the setting and characters nicely for me you could do it more smoothly with some judicious editing/rewriting (for clarity: judicious as in 'well chosen', not 'lots of'). The girls could have the same conversation in about half the lines if you worked it hard there.

One or two of the lines the 'man' comes out with are possibly verging on the gratuitously misogynistic, and his attitude is difficult to reconcile with the fact he 'gets away with it' - the story lacks a certain moral unity although I can also see how it could be done deliberately as a sort of 'im-morality tale'.

And lastly why didn't the cop just shoot him? I woulda, no messin'.

But I am seriously picking at not much at all. I enjoyed the story, the tension, the characters. I also liked the final pay-off line, the ambiguity of her reaction.

Uber. (Writing this in public library and a nutter has just started being a nutter right next to me so apologies for abbreviated ending!)

Quoted from jwent6688 I don't plan to rework it unless someone comes along wanting to put it on film.

I see. Maybe you're right. Every producer has his/her own vision about how it should be.

James, sorry, why did you say: "Dirk"? I can't catch the meaning cause English is not my native.
Dirk is a kind of cold arms... Hope, I didn't kill you whith the comment :)

Quoted from Bo I see. Maybe you're right. Every producer has his/her own vision about how it should be. James, sorry, why did you say: "Dirk"? I can't catch the meaning cause English is not my native. Dirk is a kind of cold arms... Hope, I didn't kill you whith the comment :)

No. Not at all. Dirk was just the person who commented before you. I was thanking him as well.

James

Quoted from jwent6688 No. Not at all. Dirk was just the person who commented before you. I was thanking him as well. James

Oh... Dirk, I'm sorry. Didn't see.

Quoted from danbotha I've already mentioned the excellent way in which you build the tension in this one, but I couldn't help notice a moment where you can capitalize on that. By simply not showing us that Rick is in the building, you could have made his entrance a little more surprising. I don't know about others, but for me, knowing that Rick was in the building deducted from the excitement a bit. Daniel

Daniel,

Thanks for reading. To be honest, most readers wanted the cop removed entirely. They wanted Sarah to find her own way out. That's probably the way It would go if it were rewritten. I didn't want to describe the Man. He didn't want Sarah to be able to recognize him, so i really gave him no description. The hat shadowed his eyes.

James

Quoted from marriot The girls could have the same conversation in about half the lines if you worked it hard there.

Thanks for the read. I agree here, but it is extremely unorthodox for anyone to close a bar alone so I wanted to set it up a little.

Quoted from marriot - the story lacks a certain moral unity although I can also see how it could be done deliberately as a sort of 'im-morality tale'.

Yes, The man believes he a righteous in all things. Sort of a holier than thou type character. When in fact, everything he does is completely immoral.

Quoted from marriot And lastly why didn't the cop just shoot him? I woulda, no messin'.

Rick, the cop, didn't see that the man had a gun tucked in the back of his pants. He just saw a girl get lit on fire. You may be right, but I thought that was good in putting a cop into a situation he probably wasn't trained for.

Thanks again...

If I can return a read to either of you two, just PM me. Be happy to.

James

As noted before, this is a nicely written script. It has the atmosphere and tension of a horror/thriller--it is a page turner. The story, however, has a couple of "eye rolling" moments in it that ultimately make it an unsatisfying read.


Warning: Contains Spoilers:

The "eye rolling" moments in this story: 1) not mentioning to the 911 operator that she found a phone with snuff photos on it and the owner is now outside the bar demanding the return of his phone 2) answering the weirdo's phone after seeing the photos 3) the back door conveniently being left unlocked.


Finally, this line really bothered me:
Rick: What did you do to him?
It felt like the cop was blaming the victim. As far as this story reads, Sarah did nothing to deserve what happened to her. It seems like you want us to identify with the psychopath.

Best regards
rmaze

http://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/OperationRogue.pdf
http://www.simplyscripts.com/scripts/ACOWBOYSBURDEN333.pdf

Rmaze,

Thanks for the read. I can see some of your points here. Some have been brought up before, but I don't think they would come off as "eye-rolling" to most if they were watching this on screen.

Quoted from rmaze The "eye rolling" moments in this story: 1) not mentioning to the 911 operator that she found a phone with snuff photos on it and the owner is now outside the bar demanding the return of his phone 2) answering the weirdo's phone after seeing the photos 3) the back door conveniently being left unlocked.

1) Can see your point, I also think 911 operators try to calm hysterical people, control the conversation and ask the pertinent questions.. "Are you in danger?"

2) Nobody else really had a problem with this. I sure don't. I believe they could definitely sell that on screen. It's ringing, she's alone, she puts it to her ear. Big mistake.

3)That is a bit convenient, but necessary. It's horror, you've got to forgive an "eye-roll" here and there... ::)

As far as the last line, I figured Rick might ask something like this after the psychopath proclaims he was there to teach her a lesson. Certainly wasn't putting blame on her. She did nothing wrong, it was just a way to show how twisted this guy really was.

Again, thanks for the read.

James

This has been optioned, but they've got a long way to go with their funding yet. They've started a fundraiser page...

http://www.indiegogo.com/twvfilm

I feel the least I can do is post it everywhere I can think of. The short film, Michael, on their page is impressively done. Love to see it happen!

James