Jessica Alba speaking in Elle Magazine...

"Good actors, never use the script unless it’s amazing writing. All the good actors I’ve worked with, they all say whatever they want to say."

I am guessing she uses the script then!


I'm thinking this....

I have to agree with this to some extent.  Based on working with the "talented" actors while I was in school, they did in fact say what they wanted to say.    Mostly it was performance rather than film and even if you got the actors to say what you wanted them to say during rehearsal, they said whatever the hell they wanted during the performance and there was no way to stop them.  

Having worked as an actor, amateur and professional, that is true to a certian extent, but it really depends on the actor in question and the degree of flexibility a director will allow. Say for example it's theatre and the script in question is a well known play, then very few actors will deviate from the script. There are exceptions. You can never predict what will happen on the night. An actor opposite  you might forget their lines or cue leaving you to ad lib. I had someone skip forward 5 pages on a crucial plot point once. Seconds can feel like hours and you can't drop the ball or the lie you're selling falls apart. An actors job is to understand the essence of their character, their purpose on stage and emotional content. If they truely understand that, there are 10 different ways a character could express whatever it is they are expressing at that point in time. As writers we hate it hear that. But it's true. On set, the amount of lines you have to learn are tiny in comparsion for that take or scene. Lines get changed because an actor is too lazy to laern them. Period. Oh, that's what we call 'creative differences' wink wink.

I know some actors do stray from the script occasionally, I think it is much rarer than Alba would like to think, judging by comparing screenplays with films it does not happen that much. Sometimes, especially in the hands of an actor who knows what he is doing, they do actually improve the dialogue.

So on the whole I have no major issue with what Jessica Alba is saying, I really just saw the opportunity to post a video of her getting her arse spanked

Common decency is a big question.  It's definitely different here than it is in the U.S.  In Thailand it's different too - people pick their noses while talking to you without a second thought.  

Common sense, well, in a world that would allow Sarah Palin to run for president, that's a really low bar.  

Murphy, you shouldn't post nudity unless it's art.  I question that Jessica Alba's bum is art even though she probably put a lot of work into it.  So maybe you should remove the embeded video if it's going to get peoples, besides Jessica's, knickers in a knot.  

Quoted from screenrider I'm sure all the female screenwriters on SS really appreciate that.   Ever heard of a thing called common decency?   Or common sense, for that matter.

Yeah co's this is a real video of a female getting spanked and not just an actress playing a part in a movie or anything like that.

Is it not your "good book" that says this...

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

You really want to get into a pissfight about decency? I suggest you drop it.

There won't be a fight in this thread because I will delete it.  It isn't serving anyone except yourselves to discuss anything but the subject matter at hand.  Act your ages please.

I'm offended!!!!!!

I would never write a scene like that!!!

Quoted from Grandma Bear I'm offended!!!!!! I would never write a scene like that!!!

No, because in your script Jessica would have the belt.

And a pink gun.

Funny, I honestly never realised that John August has picked up on this till just now....

http://johnaugust.com/archives/2010/oh-jessica

Quoted Text I have to believe she was misquoted, or excerpted in some unflattering way, because Jessica Alba couldn’t have actually said this: "Good actors, never use the script unless it’s amazing writing. All the good actors I’ve worked with, they all say whatever they want to say." Oh, Jessica. Where to start? Scripts aren’t just the dialogue. Screenplays reflect the entire movie in written form, including those moments when you don’t speak. Do you know the real reason we hold table readings in pre-production? So the actors will read the entire script at least once. Following your logic, you’ve never been in a movie with both good actors and amazing writing. That may be true, but it might hurt the feelings of David Wain, Robert Rodriguez and Frank Miller. You’re saying your co-stars who delivered their lines as written are not “good actors.” Awkward. You’re setting dangerous expectations. So if an aspiring actor wishes to be “good,” she should say whatever she wants to say? That’s pretty terrible advice. Screenwriters can be your best friends. We are pushovers for attractive people who pay attention to us. I wrote that bathtub scene in Big Fish because Jessica Lange made brief eye contact with me. So if you’re not getting great writing — and honestly, you’re not — ask to have lunch with the screenwriter. I’ve seen you on interviews. You’re charming. That charm could work wonders. Again: I know that quotes often come out in ways we never intended. It’s lacking context — though the photos are lovely. (Hi, Carter Smith!) I’m calling this out just so we can all hopefully learn something.

Well, looks like John August said it all, really.

And considering her body of work, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Jessica Alba is a goddamn fucking moron. Yeah, she was in Sin City but does that really make up for The Love Guru, the Fantastic Four movies, Good Luck Chuck, Honey and The Eye? I don't think so.

Fuck Jessica Alba.

I cannot believe how utterly trash and ass her acting is in that scene.  WOW!  Maybe she should start reading from the script.  Maybe she even take some coaching from the writers too.  She could use it.  The thing is, she looks so good nobody cares what she says.  I mean, for all intense and purposes, here ass cheeks could've been doing the screaming and I don't think 97% of the world would care.

They'd probably give her an Oscar for it if they could.  Sad.  

Watched the commentary for Boogie Nights a while back. Anderson said William H. Macy studies dialogue so closely, he could change up his line delivery based on comma placement alone. Anyone wanna call him a bad actor?

Who cares what the lead actress in Good Luck, Chuck thinks?

And for the record, who cares what John August thinks? This (unlike above) is a serious question. I honestly don't hate Charlie's Angels enough to discredit the guy but when did he become such an authority on screenwriting (as opposed to someone like David Koepp, for example)? I see him name-dropped like crazy around here.

Quoted from James McClung Watched the commentary for Boogie Nights a while back. Anderson said William H. Macy studies dialogue so closely, he could change up his line delivery based on comma placement alone. Anyone wanna call him a bad actor? Who cares what the lead actress in Good Luck, Chuck thinks? And for the record, who cares what John August thinks? This (unlike above) is a serious question. I honestly don't hate Charlie's Angels enough to discredit the guy but when did he become such an authority on screenwriting (as opposed to someone like David Koepp, for example)? I see him name-dropped like crazy around here.

August isn't my screenwriting muse, neither.  As far as clean, direct and visual goes --> Joe EsZterhas and Stallone are above and beyond most.  I love reading their work.  They are fantastic writers who both have a distinct style when you read them.  You don't feel like you're reading a screenplay written by so and so and so and so... You feel like you're reading their own respected works.  That, to me, is important.  That stamp.  That signature vibe.

Even "ShowGirls" is written better than 95% of actual screenplays floating around today.  Movie might've sucked but Joe delivered on his end when you read it.

I got so fired up the second I found out about Alba's quote I wanted to write an entire essay on the importance of following the script.  But after watching that video, I just can't stop thinking about how amazing her backside really is.

Quoted from mcornetto I have to agree with this to some extent.  Based on working with the "talented" actors while I was in school, they did in fact say what they wanted to say.    Mostly it was performance rather than film and even if you got the actors to say what you wanted them to say during rehearsal, they said whatever the hell they wanted during the performance and there was no way to stop them.

I'm coming in late to this thread, but I've thought about this a lot many times before.

What I often think when I'm doing rewrite stuff, is: "How can I condense what I want to say so that the actor can do "whatever the hell they want with it"?

I know that I create certain parameters, but after that, I'd love to watch it fly. To me that's the real magic!!!

Sandra

...and now screenrider is offended I was not offended...  

I think I need a break.

Quoted from screenrider I'm not offended.   It's embarrassing. Murphy's reason for starting this thread was immature and inappropriate.    We've got at least one Hollywood Literary Agent, that we know of, perusing these boards looking for scripts.   Meanwhile, let's post a video of Jessica Alba getting spanked and talk trash.   Yerah, that'll definitely drum up some business.

I will do you a deal...

You quit with the bible quotations, you stop posting ridiculous posts every time somebody says something that offends you and you stop sending me Private Messages then I will quit posting videos of Jessica Alba's arse.

Until then I will post what I damn well like and take my chances with the moderators.

Nothing pisses me off more than Born again Christians who assume they are entitled to the moral high ground just because they happen to believe in a 2000 year old book.

Have we got a deal or are you just going to stfu?

Quoted from James McClung And for the record, who cares what John August thinks? This (unlike above) is a serious question. I honestly don't hate Charlie's Angels enough to discredit the guy but when did he become such an authority on screenwriting (as opposed to someone like David Koepp, for example)? I see him name-dropped like crazy around here.

Hey, we all have our opinions on writers, so fair enough. I think it is a little unfair to just go by Charlie s Angels however, I personally thought it was a pile of crap btw, but Big Fish was a wonderful script, both Corpse Bride and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory were pretty good too. He has sold some specs, one to Spielberg and done uncredited re-writes on Iron Man and Minority Report.

So all in all, whether you like his work or not, you cannot suggest the guy does not have something to say about being a screenwriter. The majority of his blog posts are exactly about that, not so much telling people how to write but giving people an inside view of the life of a screenwriter.

It is fine to disagree with his views but not fine to suggest his views are not legitimate.

Is that not fair?

P.S. The simple fact is John August, despite being a working screenwriter, bothers his arse to keep a blog updated and spends a lot of his time helping people learn the business. That alone deserves some kind of respect, surely? That is why you might see him name dropped lots, he has lots to say.  

That's perfectly fair. I just think it's strange he's such a big name amongst writing circles. Is it because he has a blog? The best thing to his name is Big Fish which was good but not a film that's made much of a splash in the grand scheme of things. For everyone who flipped out when Armored got sold, I think this would mean something. Corpse Bride and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory were pretty meh, I thought.

I used David Koepp as a counter example not because I like him (I feel about the same toward both writers) but because he's written a ton more scripts, a ton more blockbusters, worked with big name directors and just has much more of a name for himself. But he doesn't have a blog.

Like I said, it was a serious question. Genuine curiosity. A lot of aspiring writers seem to look up to and, more importantly, take something from him. I'm no one to rain on their parade just because he wrote some scripts that were... okay.

Quoted from Murphy The simple fact is John August, despite being a working screenwriter, bothers his arse to keep a blog updated and spends a lot of his time helping people learn the business. That alone deserves some kind of respect, surely? That is why you might see him name dropped lots, he has lots to say.

That's good enough for me.

If August's Preacher script ever gets produced and the movie's terrible, I'll rip on him at every opportunity I have from the absolute most biased, personal and emotional standpoint I can put myself on and without any regard to logical argument or consideration for personal opinion...

But until then, no worries.

Quoted from James McClung That's perfectly fair. I just think it's strange he's such a big name amongst writing circles. Is it because he has a blog? The best thing to his name is Big Fish which was good but not a film that's made much of a splash in the grand scheme of things. For everyone who flipped out when Armored got sold, I think this would mean something. Corpse Bride and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory were pretty meh, I thought. I used David Koepp as a counter example not because I like him (I feel about the same toward both writers) but because he's written a ton more scripts, a ton more blockbusters, worked with big name directors and just has much more of a name for himself. But he doesn't have a blog. Like I said, it was a serious question. Genuine curiosity. A lot of aspiring writers seem to look up to and, more importantly, take something from him. I'm no one to rain on their parade just because he wrote some scripts that were... okay. That's good enough for me. If August's Preacher script ever gets produced and the movie's terrible, I'll rip on him at every opportunity I have from the absolute most biased, personal and emotional standpoint I can put myself on and without any regard to logical argument or consideration for personal opinion... But until then, no worries.

You are probably are right, it is because he has a blog basically! He does seem like a nice guy to be fair.

Quoted from screenrider We've got at least one Hollywood Literary Agent, that we know of, perusing these boards looking for scripts.   Meanwhile, let's post a video of Jessica Alba getting spanked and talk trash.   Yerah, that'll definitely drum up some business.

what do you mean drum up business?

ever since Babz showed up here you have wanted us all to act different, write different. you were against the thriller 7WC because she had said on the boards she was looking for a completely different type of script even though I told you she had been looking for a thriller about amnesia via e-mail. she's looking for different scripts every week.

you want us all to act more proper, more mature and more serious?...go to MP. everyone is welcome to SS. young and old, serious, not serious, intelligent and mature and batshit crazy even extremely religeous people.

I woke up this morning fully intending to delete this thread -- sure it would have become a mess overnight.

But there is some good conversation mixed in here, actually, concerning John August and such.  Thoughtful stuff.

Quoted from screenrider Murphy's reason for starting this thread was immature and inappropriate.

There is wonderful irony to Murphy's initial post that I think you are missing.

Quoted from screenrider It's embarrassing.

That is your opinion.

I happen to find random bible quotations plastered all over the board embarrassing.

That stuff chases people off, too, S.R.

Quoted from screenrider Agents and Producers should be flocking to this site, but they're not.  Gee, I wonder why.    And in regards to your comment about my so-called "random" Bible quotes -- gimme a break!   Nothing is random. I love SimplyScripts.   I take pride in being affiliated with this site as screenwriting is a big part of my life and I'm in it to win it.  But lately this place has turned into a joke with all these senseless and ridiculous threads popping up like weeds. Too much rhetorioc, not enough professionalism, IMO.   It's bad management on the Moderator's behalf, and overall bad PR for SS. That's about all I've got to say on the matter. Cheers.

With the exception of the bold, I think the exact opposite of what you just said. If anything, the problems at SS now stem from members taking the boards too seriously.

There was a time where SS wasn't supposed to be a place for learning, it just was. There was a time where exchanging scripts wasn't protocol, just politeness. There was a time where members didn't ask for their own threads to be locked before they actually got out of hand or spoke up for members who would supposedly get offended before said members actually got offended. I think the ladies here can take care of themselves, dude.

Every stupid argument that's popped up lately has been because people have blown this place up into something more than what it really is. Management? PR? WTF?

For fuck's sake. Lighten up. It's a message board. I've seen so many members try to say what this place is supposed to be or how it should be run and it just putrefies the environment that we're lucky to have in the first place.

Quoted from screenrider Agents and Producers should be flocking to this site, but they're not.  Gee, I wonder why.

Why should they bother, when so many screenwriters flock to them? It honestly isn't worth their time. Don't get me wrong, I love SS, and there are some good scripts here, but forgive me for sounding negative when I say I don't think here is where you're going to be rocketed to stardom.

I see this place as like a cafe, or a bar where we all hang out. People come and go. We talk about stuff that we have a common interest in (mainly screenwriting, but other stuff too). Often people bring something they've been working on and other people have a look. Sometimes, say with an OWC, everyone agrees to bring work at the same time, but it's all separate individuals who've just found a place to hang out, swap stories and tips with other patrons, and generally have a good time.

Why would agents and producers spent their time trawling the site? It's really not worth their while. Why wouldn't they just sit back and let the writers come to them? I would. This isn't a factory for screenwriters, Michael. It's our Screenwriting Cafe. Yes the scripts are the main focus, but this place's laid-back, open-doors policy is a reason why it's great here. So chill out, put your feet up, and have a drink.

Oh, and as for the main topic of the thread, a message for actors: my words are all gold. Every single one is a nugget of the finest, purest quality. If you disturb them, if you so much as nudge them, I will disembowel you with a spoon.

That's right. A spoon. A plastic spoon.

Mike,

I'm going to post this against my better judgment. Here's an example of what Bert means by "random quotes" and "turning people off":

I'm a huge hockey fan. Some would say it's my religion. I worship Mark Messier like you worship J.C.

Silly, you say? Consider this - hockey players on the whole are strong-willed, determined, hard-working, family oriented people who play for the love of the game and the love of the fans. They're respectful of the opportunity they've been given. And if you examined all the professional sports and lumped in all entertainers in general and asked who gives back more to the community in terms of time and money, hockey players are at the top. Look up Messier's involvement with Hackensack University Medical Center as an example - there's a children's wing named after him. So I actually have evidence that Messier's part of the solution rather than part of the problem - if you know what I mean.

So why am I telling you all this? Imagine that I littered my posts with references to hockey and certain players all the time. It would be a turnoff. That's a part of my life, but it's SEPARATE from screenwriting. Your faith can and should be part of your writing, but professing it should have a time and place. I think that's Bert's point and he can correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, and let's conclude today's lesson with a quote from one of our spiritual leaders:

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." - Wayne Gretzky

Anthony

Quoted from screenrider ...with all these senseless and ridiculous threads popping up like weeds.

Look around, SR.  Those threads are gone.  I let people get "whatever" out of their system, then delete them.

I will likely do the same here.

Quoted from screenrider Really, Bert?   Seriously?

Yeah, seriously.  What you quoted from Murphy is a goof.  His original post had a message.

I got nothing against religion, and there are certainly things that you bring to the boards besides that....

...but this ain't the place for it.  I really wish you would "stick to the script" and leave the Bible out of it.  

Scriptures are every bit as off-topic as Ms. Alba's a** -- and in this context, said bum is actually closer to the topic at hand.

-----------------------------

[edit]:  And I am NOT trying to chase anybody off the boards here -- or start an argument.  It has been said that "everything" is relevant to screenwriting, which does have a kernel of truth to it.  But we already know that Bible stuff riles some people up for whatever reason.  It is a polite request to scale it back, and politeness does not always translate well to stream-of-consciousness posting on a message board...]

Quoted from screenrider This isn't about my Bible quotes.   That doesn't even come into play in this conversation.

I thought the conversation -- such as it is -- had morphed into what may or may not be appropriate to post on our Scriptwriting boards.

I have edited my post above, S.R., and you might have missed it.  Please take a look.

Nice spanking. I would have chosen the Sin City scene where the Yellow Bastard whips her, though.

Here's some more spanking: http://johnaugust.com/archives/2010/oh-jessica

OK, just had a little PM chat with S.R. and I think everything is cool now.

But while composing my thoughts to him, I decided I would like to make part of that message public -- a little insight into the "minds of the mods" (or lack thereof) -- for those who wonder why on Earth we let these trash threads go on like this.

They crop up every now and again -- quite cyclical, actually -- and what you may or may not have noticed is that they linger for a day or two -- but once they have died, they mysteriously disappear into the ether.

Nobody even cares or asks why they are gone, if they even notice.  They know why it's gone. And the boards are no worse for the wear.

We have found that we have to let these threads run their course -- provided they do not get abusive or anything.

If we delete the thread, a new, similar conversation will just pop up somewhere else.

It is like squeezing a balloon.

At least on an existing thread, we can keep track of it, you know?

So now you know.  This one will likely be gone in a day or two also.

Just gonna post to make sure this stays on the portal. To piss off screen. Welp, watched it fifteen times for some reason. But, sadly, I've concluded that that was a butt double.

She's on my laminated list. I keep it in my pocket just in case we run into each other. She's #2. She'd probably ask, "Where's your girlfriend if you have a list?" and I would have no answer.

Anywho... I agree with what she said. Can believe it. This was a bad scene to get Murphy's point across. Sorry Murph. If i had to read "Get off me! Get off me! Get off me you bastard!" In a script it would annoy me. The actors should ad lib a bit.

James

Quoted from jwent6688 This was a bad scene to get Murphy's point across. Sorry Murph. If i had to read "Get off me! Get off me! Get off me you bastard!" In a script it would annoy me. The actors should ad lib a bit.

But don't you see? That was the whole point of the clip. This is what Michael missed as well.

What Alba's saying is: good actors change lines, unless they consider the writing so great it doesn't need changing. Now, the writing in that scene is pretty bad. And yet she didn't change it. So, either she doesn't count herself as a good actor, or she considers the writing so good she's left it as it is, in which case she has poor judgment. So she's damning herself either way.

There. I explained the joke. Unless you already got it and were being ironic, in which case...you got me.

I finally got to see this video and I have to ask:  couldn't they have made the hiney whipping a little bit longer?

Seriously though, I don't think that anyone would consider Jessica Alba a good actress, much less a great actress.  Sure, she's attractive but that's about all she has going for her.  I doubt that any serious director would let her change the script.

You might as well be taking acting tips from Paris Hilton.


Phil

I watched 'The Kids are all right" last night, (it was a great film btw - one of the best of the year.) Beforehand I listened to an interview with Mark Ruffalo, he made some interesting points, one especially that goes against all screenwriting convention and while It does'nt mean that he is right, it is certainly interesting to get actor's perspectives on these things sometimes.

He is a great actor, yet he followed the script, which he called great. But he said what he loved about the film is that the writer/director Lisa Cholodenko was never in a hurry to get out of a scene early. I know we are always told to get into a scene late and leave it early, and understand why this is said, but Ruffalo suggested it is in the final moments of a scene where good actors can just "be actors", when all the dialogue is done, when they have moved all the props they were supposed to, and the director allows them to stay on screen a little bit more. He says it is those moments where good actors can shine.

Watching the film after hearing this I was looking out for examples in the film, and you know what? He is so right. There were numerous occasions where they left a camera running longer than it needed to and this resulted in great little character moments, ad-libs if you will, but not dialogue, proper visual acting, even if just odd facial expressions or movements.

I think that this is where Alba has got it very wrong, as John August said a screenplay is much more than just dialogue, it is about creating a world where actors can say your dialogue but use their skill to make it real, not just changing it because they think they know better. That is not skill really is it? That is just a sign that they are not actually a good enough actor to read your dialogue well in the first place.

So I think she is 100% wrong, Good actors are capable of taking your dialogue and doing something with it. Bad actors feel the need to tinker with it and make changes.

What does this have to do with Jessica Alba?  She's not a great actress.  She hasn't won any great awards.  When her looks fade, so will her career.  Seriously.  What does she have now?



There are actors who can change a script and get away it--even improve it.  She's not one of them.


Phil

Quoted from Murphy I watched 'The Kids are all right" last night, (it was a great film btw - one of the best of the year.) Beforehand I listened to an interview with Mark Ruffalo, he made some interesting points, one especially that goes against all screenwriting convention and while It does'nt mean that he is right, it is certainly interesting to get actor's perspectives on these things sometimes. He is a great actor, yet he followed the script, which he called great. But he said what he loved about the film is that the writer/director Lisa Cholodenko was never in a hurry to get out of a scene early. I know we are always told to get into a scene late and leave it early, and understand why this is said, but Ruffalo suggested it is in the final moments of a scene where good actors can just "be actors", when all the dialogue is done, when they have moved all the props they were supposed to, and the director allows them to stay on screen a little bit more. He says it is those moments where good actors can shine. Watching the film after hearing this I was looking out for examples in the film, and you know what? He is so right. There were numerous occasions where they left a camera running longer than it needed to and this resulted in great little character moments, ad-libs if you will, but not dialogue, proper visual acting, even if just odd facial expressions or movements. I think that this is where Alba has got it very wrong, as John August said a screenplay is much more than just dialogue, it is about creating a world where actors can say your dialogue but use their skill to make it real, not just changing it because they think they know better. That is not skill really is it? That is just a sign that they are not actually a good enough actor to read your dialogue well in the first place. So I think she is 100% wrong, Good actors are capable of taking your dialogue and doing something with it. Bad actors feel the need to tinker with it and make changes.

Dear Murphy, I wanted to quote your whole post because I think it's essential for reading together with my response.

(Before I respond on that though, I think you and Screenrider should shake hands and not worry about "the shit". The oppositions are good things. We are all mirrors for each other so that we actually "can" exist. "Opposites". As a reflection is.)

Now, the response:

We're discussing the question of:

If any actor tinkers with script-- or says anything they want to say, are they a bad actor?

We can't answer this strictly in a "yes" or "no" fashion. As always, it depends upon the context of the situation. As always, there will be situations that prove right on either side of the story.

The most important point I want to contribute here is the importance of "collaboration".

I think that the opportunities for creative developments don't end on "the written page". If, something happens while filming, that turns out to be "the perfect accident" or "spontaneity" then I don't think we should dismiss it out of "rules" or "conventions" that we are accustomed to believing in as a kind of "false god" if you will.

Although I do hear what you are saying, it always boils down to the truth that--

Rules are often meant to be broken. But! The qualifier is: You need to first learn the rules. So yes, poor acting is no excuse to mess around with what was written well on the page, but a darn good actor who respects a darn good writer and a darn good group of people on the set all working together-- you know it and can feel the magic.

As Babz has stated with Table Reads that there's a kind of magic that happens. You find things-- opportunities, expressions when you actually "perform". This is good and positive.

With regard to collaboration: I think it's the greatest thing in the world. It makes happy to give you this little bit of info:

"I am proud to say that twenty-three people contributed to a script called A Fish Called Wanda"

John Cleese

Myself, I'm not going to be quick to reject something just because it isn't the way it was planned.

Sandra

To be honest Sandra, My comments were really only to highlight how stupid Jessica Alba's were. Of course it is not black and white, It is impossible to pigeon hole and decide how good an actor is on whether or not they stick to the script.

I know it is entirely possible, that an actor that has done his job correctly, will actually know more about that character than even the writer. I don't think it has got anything to do with acting skills though, I suspect that it is how big a name you are that determines how much leeway you will be given. Seen as Jessica Alba no doubt confuses being a good actor with being a big celebrity then what she probably was trying to say was that big names, with lots of clout can say whatever they bloody like and get away with it. Very different from being a good actor.

If an actor has put some work into preparing for a role and comes to the director one day suggesting that the character would not say such a thing and provides an alternative line then I think that is by no means a bad thing. If the aim is to improve the film, and the reasons are sound then that is probably a great thing, and the sign of a good actor one might say. But does that mean that all good actors get to ignore the script? No, of course it doesn't. Only in the mind of pea-brained starlets.

As a screenwriter it seems if you are lucky enough to write a film starring Tom Cruise you are pretty screwed. By all accounts (I don't know this is true, but I am inclined to believe it) Tom Cruise has his own personal screenwriter who he brings onto his projects to re-write dialogue for him, and he is not the only one I think. Now does that make him a good actor? No way, my view is that this is all about ego.

Collaboration is one way to describe it, I am not sure it really correct though, not when it comes to screenwriting that is. Unless you are lucky enough to direct your own script, or you were christened Aaron Sorkin then you are never going to be part of any collaboration. Once you finish your final draft and bank the cheque it is unlikely you will be called upon again. I bet most screenwriters don't even find out that their dialogue has been changed until they watch the finished film in the cinema.

Screenwriting is more about giving away your babies and letting other people collaborate on them. You have just got to hope that you get the right combination of Producers, Director and Actors who allow your original vision to stand, or at least if they make changes that they are changes you agree with and you are still able to call it your film. You rarely will get a say in the matter though, you have just got to hope for the best.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. "I am proud to say that twenty-three people contributed to a script called A Fish Called Wanda"

Same thing with Hudson Hawk.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe Same thing with Hudson Hawk. Phil

I haven't seen the movie, but now that I know, I will watch it. Thank you.

Sandra

Jeez, Murph, if people are getting offended by the Affleck-spanks-Alba scene aren't you lucky you didn't post the subsequent Affleck-Pulverises-Alba scene, nasty stuff.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Jeez, Murph, if people are getting offended by the Affleck-spanks-Alba scene aren't you lucky you didn't post the subsequent Affleck-Pulverises-Alba scene, nasty stuff.

Very nasty stuff, to be honest I don't really think it needed to be so nasty either. It might have been easier to take had it been a better film, but I don't think the violence really served the plot here.

Quoted from James McClung And for the record, who cares what John August thinks? This (unlike above) is a serious question. I honestly don't hate Charlie's Angels enough to discredit the guy but when did he become such an authority on screenwriting (as opposed to someone like David Koepp, for example)? I see him name-dropped like crazy around here.

Well, there was Big Fish, Corpse Bride...and I did find myself impressed with Prince Of Persia to some extent...but I think August is quoted about as much as Eossio & Elliot -- because the writers have a site where they just don't talk about an upcoming project or two, but the nuts and bolts of writing itself. (of course, Rossio & Elliot are more entertaining at Wordplay) I could be wrong, but that's my thoughts on the matter.

As for Alba...?

I'm not offended by her comment at all. Her foot is so far down her mouth she's practically swallowed herself. Taken her statement at face value, that means that Good Luck Chuck was a terrible script, and she,and Dane Cook (now there's a good actor for you! *snicker-snicker*) knowingly signed on to the movie. She also appeared in the hit comedy Never Been Kissed but hardly spoke a word. Wondeer why  

Do actors "knowingly" sign on bad projects? I don't think so. Perhaps Awake was an outstanding script, messed up during production. But when I think about the issues I had with that film, I think about how bland the two leads - Alba and Hayden Christensen (another "good" thespian   ) were.

Alba was miscast in The Fantastic Four but I'll cut her some slack on the first film because it did, in fact, seem that the Sue Storm character was written like an airhead. No excuse her it on Rise of Silver Surfer though. I'm pretty sure she ad-libbed most of her dialog. "Ya Think!?" Better sounds comes from nails on a chalkboard. Only thing worse than her was a storm cloud

To be fair though, I used to like The Eye. Then a friend of mine showed me the Pang bros. original. Now I don't care for ...

Well anyway...one thing is for sure. I'm taking Alba at her word.
She isn't a good actress.

Quoted from Murphy Very nasty stuff, to be honest I don't really think it needed to be so nasty either. It might have been easier to take had it been a better film, but I don't think the violence really served the plot here.

Well, the book is quite violent and detailed in its description of the scene so I dunno, I thought it was well acted and directed. The film was a little uneven alright but then again so is the book, great but scattered in parts. Affleck was brilliant and even though this is an Alba bashing thread (pardon the pun) I thought she done a good job too in what I can see as her only half decent role outside of skinny Nancy Callahan

So to come into this conversation very late, and to make it on the original topic of script-changing, here's something you may or may not find interesting. On my own movie, I told the actors that I was well aware that I sucked at dialogue. "Your dialogue is wooden" is a common comment for me. Hence, I told the actors that they could make the dialogue sound how they felt their character would speak. Here's what happened.

I had two extremes with two of them, and everyone else fell somewhere in between. One actor changed probably 90% of his lines, and most of them worked very well. I think some were done on purpose, but others were done because he just forgot the precise wording and just said something similar, which didn't bother me at all. Now, who it did bother was the newb acting opposite him who had trouble remembering his lines anyway. The change in lines created a situation to where this new guy never got any of his queues and just had to try and remember the order of his own lines without the page-written conversation. Did it turn out ok? Sure. The worst part of my movie is the sound that I can't fix because my actors have moved all over the country.

The polar opposite of the line changer was the woman who changed few, if any, of her lines. She knew the script word for word, and actually did a great job of delivering exactly what I had written. She was actually more of a joy to work with than the other guy because she knew the script so well.

Couldn't tell you which is better. I've been on stage when an actor skipped past the end of a scene, missing the cue that signaled a set change, and then had to backtrack for the stage crew to to their job when he turned and did not find the person he was supposed to be talking to at that point. At the same time, how many of us wish that Lucas had allowed his dialogue to be changed in the Star Wars prequels?

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Well, the book is quite violent and detailed in its description of the scene so I dunno, I thought it was well acted and directed. The film was a little uneven alright but then again so is the book, great but scattered in parts. Affleck was brilliant and even though this is an Alba bashing thread (pardon the pun) I thought she done a good job too in what I can see as her only half decent role outside of skinny Nancy Callahan

I actually bought the novel after watching the film, have not read it yet. I agree with you there though  Affelck was brilliant, I think the guy is an excellent actor, miles better than his brother. He is the only reason I watched the film really. I am unsure about Michael Winterbottom, I am not sure many other directors would have made it so horribly violent. Like you say though maybe it did need it, I will read the book.

Obviously, two of you not only know what movie this is but have actually seen it as well. So... is it worth it? Gotta say the cast really turned me off. Alba and Hudson alike.

Gonna see it, regardless. Been meaning to check out this flick for some time but unfortunately, France doesn't get Netflix, Watch Instant or otherwise.

Gonna watch it when I get back Stateside. Then I'm gonna review it. Especially since it'll probably be permanently cemented in SS's hive mind as the one with Jessica Alba's ass.

Well, our lovely little Jessica is now taking shit for her comments.  Click here.

From the article:

Quoted Text "I would love to see Jessica Alba join the improv workshop I attend," wrote veteran TV writer Ken Levine. "She might find that creating a character, moving a story forward, and holding her own with other gifted actors without a script requires more than nice $#@!."

Phil

It's good, I think colkurtz said it nicely in that it is patchy. I think it is one of those infuriating films that if the whole film had been as good as the best bits then it could have been brilliant.

I forgot it was Kate Hudson in it, she was actually rather good, she might actually be growing inti a fairly decent actress, she played her character well enough I forgot it was her, so can't be that bad. I watched it with the wife and she found it very hard going, there are a couple of scenes that are nasty, very nasty.  

It is certainly worth watching, but it does suffer from the lack of a real mystery or suspense. It is a character study more than anything, the films POV is Affleck's character and we already know he did it, the only question really is whether he will get caught.

  

An interesting side note:  The Killer Inside Me cost a mere $13 million dollars to make, but brought in less than a quarter of a million dollars so far.  I guess her assets aren't enough to help a low budget movie break even.


Phil

Quoted from Murphy I am unsure about Michael Winterbottom.

He is rather hit and miss but one certainly can't accuse him of staying within a comfort zone and repeating himself. He has one of the most varied CVs of any director past or present, constantly tackling many different genres, narratives & technical styles with, albeit, varying degrees of success so I give him kudos for that. 24 Party People, A Cock & Bull Story & Genova are highlights for me and are all completely different films.

Quoted from James McClung "Gotta say the cast really turned me off. Alba and Hudson alike.

I completely see where you're coming from, James. Kate Hudson in particular has pissed about a lot in her career since that great performance in Almost Famous, a shame really.

I would've said the same about Casey Affleck ("The last Kiss", anyone?) too until his turn in Jesse James. Man, was I surprised when I seen that, totally unexpected based on what I knew of his work prior.

In support of Jessica:
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/11/22/avengers-jeremy-renner-hawkeye/
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/11/02/robert-downey-jr-avengers-joss-whedon/