Quoted from bert Altruism?  Sometimes, sure.  But thumping your chest and demanding that should be the norm doesn't make any sense to me.

It's very easy to comment on a ton of scripts when the feedback consists of "Good script...me likee very muchee"

Quoted from Shelton It's very easy to comment on a ton of scripts when the feedback consists of "Good script...me likee very muchee"

I find the scripts that "I likee very muchee" the hardest to comment to on, particularly with shorts, because when giving a review I feel like I'm supposed to find a fault but if there isn't one then it's hard to say anything more than "me likee very muchee" It's then that I'll talk why I liked it and what my favorite bits were.  

I was just skimming through some of the July Challenge reviews and I noticed a few people aren't putting spoiler warnings on reviews that contain spoilers. Remember to put those warnings in people.

It's a matter of context with regards to "what" is pointed out. There is no "one size fits all" critique.

Some writers have issues with grammar and spelling, but their stories are spectacular in other ways. If this is the case and the critique artist can see that the carelessness, or just the unawareness is reflecting badly, then it's important to point it out (as someone who wants to encourage the apprentice writer) the errors.

One need not point out every single error. I understand your point because this would be stupid. It's a waste of time for the person doing the critiquing and a waste of time for the writer who might cut huge scenes and portions; rather, the critique artist needs to discern what they consider important. Sometimes a whole lot is wrong, but certainly one critique is not the place to mention everything.

It also deflates a person when too much is mentioned. The only exception is when someone is paying for a critique. If that is the case then I would say that the feedback needs to be in depth and that would include typos.

Regarding the "wholeness of the critique" I would say that one also needs to take into account the age of the writer. If the writer is twelve years of age, then certainly they need help understanding simple grammar that even us grown ups get confused with-- like lie and lay for example.

This kind of discussion is one of the reasons why this board is so good. We all are able to integrate the ways we approach the craft.

I hear you though about critiques that point out every little error. I've seen them before and I've thought: What a waste of time.

It's a matter of discernment. Just the fact that this is pointed out in a long thread such as this is excellent.

Thank you for this.

Sandra

Quoted from George Willson I don't read anymore to learn, but I read to teach the best I can and hopefully to be entertained. I have no biases at all, so anything and anyone goes for me. No hierarchal arrogance here.

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Thank you George for raising light on this. I will add: Even if you don't purposely read to learn, I think that you are still learning in all kinds of subtle ways that might not be apparent.

The point about "reading to teach": This is very paradoxical or, (sorry-- it might not be a very good word. I mean complimentary.) I think that we learn a lot from teaching-- things that we wouldn't otherwise manage to dig up and we might wind up with some lost impression or concept that we feel we can use in our next great masterpiece.

You know, even when we know lots, or we think we know lots, when we work with raw materials, (I mean fresh scripts, books or whatever) we get emotions by the bucketful and things come to mind that we might not get otherwise.

I envy you if you are at the point when you don't need to read to learn. For me, I think I will be reading to learn for many lifetimes to come.

It's always tough for us poor writing shmucks. No matter whether we're savoring a bit of a glow in some kind of writing success or whether we are banging our heads against the wall, or the computer keyboard, we are never satisfied. Even if we hit the big time, I'm sure we'll be horrified by our work. We'll look at it in disgust. We'll see every tiny error on the page...

Oh gosh! Maybe it's just me...

There is no end to this is there?

Sandra

Thank you Mike for pointing us in the right direction.

Ste, regarding your crit, don't worry if you ever feel you don't have much to say. That's the way it can be sometimes. But if you stop for a moment, and just take a little more of a look, you'll think of things; you'll see things that you didn't at first.

I'm a believer that everyone has a story to tell that only they can tell; so too, their view and the way they see things is important. You don't need to be fancy. Your opinion counts. Don't be afraid to share it. Just explain why. Give examples. That's the most important advice I can give here. No matter what you do, give examples of how to do it better if you can. And if you just sense something is wrong, but aren't sure what, then I think that that is almost as good as an example. Someone else might figure it out and the discussion will lead to enlightenment for all.

There are many ways to critique. One good critique artist I read about told about her method of giving a summary of what the story is about, and doing this first.

I kind of agree with that sometimes, but not all the times. (Especially when you can't figure out what it's about. LOL) Actually, today I was working with a sci-fi story, (not script) that was brilliant with science jargon, but not so brilliant with clueing the reader in on what it all meant. The story was lost inside what was like a very good kind of Science Digest, but written for scientists only.

One thing I would recommend is to simply write what your impressions are, using some tact of course. A person should NOT try to cover everything that's wrong, but just pick out what you feel needs attention for this go around.

I remember getting some critiques back on some older work of mine where the critique person obviously spent a huge amount of time, but the thing was: It was a waste because it was still only draft material where a bunch of stuff is going to get cut anyways. Why fix up what's going to get torn down?

Now, it's different if you are collaborating with an author and you are working on really polishing something to its final stages, then you can work together maybe using tracking in Word or a similar feature in a program like Final Draft.

My critiques are usually more detailed because that's just the way I do things, but I don't point out too much grammar and typos unless I really feel like the writer needs to kick it up a notch because I can see that it will make a big difference for them.

Even if you are totally new to doing critiques, you will often have brilliant insights, if you look a bit and try and think critically. Often people here come up with such great insight that a person goes: Wow! I wish I would have thought of that!

Pay attention to some of the longtime members here. They have already walked the path and they know what they are talking about.

Sandra

I agree with you Sandra.

I'm not going to comment on that script specifically because that was just my opinion. Especially, given the time limit for the challenge most of my reviews have erred on the positive. Also, I struggled with coming up with ideas for my own script so was even more impressed with the batch I've read so far.

I'm just learning screenwriting myself so format and story structure is what I'm concentrating on...therefore if I don't see a problem with either of those things then I struggle to come up with a worthwhile critique. I think there is a difference between a critique and a review. Both have their benefits to the writer.

I enjoy reading your reviews though.

Ste

Quoted from Sandra E. I remember getting some critiques back on some older work of mine where the critique person obviously spent a huge amount of time, but the thing was: It was a waste because it was still only draft material where a bunch of stuff is going to get cut anyways. Why fix up what's going to get torn down?

But how could the reviewer know that? This is why we should never post our first drafts.