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Script readers guidelines... (currently 2469 views) |
Murphy |
Posted: February 20th, 2009, 1:43am |
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So I have just read something that I found really interesting and thought it would be certainly worth sharing with you guys so I have shamelessly ripped it from the unknown screenwriter's blog - http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/ - Hope he doesn't mind. He has a friend who does some work as a reader for one of the big agencies and when he started he was handed an "under the table guidelines" before he read his first script.... (The Unknown Screenwriter also had an excellent post on making your script stand-out if it does eventually get in front of a reader which is well worth a look, here - http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/do-yourself-a-favor/screenwriting/tips/2009/02/08/)
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Incorrect format If the writer isn't willing to take the time and effort to learn basic screenplay formatting, why should we take the time to read it when we get paid by the script? This includes incorrect fonts, incorrect slugs, centering the characters and dialogue, right-justified text, and character's intro not capped. WE PASS.
Directing the script No camera angles. No songs. No soundtracks. No actors. WE PASS.
Screenplay too long Screenplays should be no longer than 130 pages and that is pushing it for a spec. WE PASS.
Screenplays too short When a screenplay is less than 110 pages, we immediately begin to worry if there's going to be enough story in it to entertain and 99.99999999% of the time, there isn�t. WE PASS.
Notes to the Reader My own personal pet peeve. I hate them. I don't think they're cute. I don't think they're funny. When I read them, I either pass right away or dig in with both feet to find a reason to pass. Don't tell me what I should know after having just read the scene. I should be able to figure it out from reading your action and description. Don't tell me what a character is thinking. Don't explain things to me that you should be explaining with your action, description, and dialogue. WE PASS.
Colorful covers We tend to keep skipping these scripts. Sometimes, if the screenwriter is a friend of a friend and we have to read it no matter what, we'll go ahead and put a regular white cardstock or agency cover on it but most of the time, screenplays with bright colorful covers are rejected immediately. I should also mention the use of graphics or binding material other than brass brads. Don't use them. WE PASS.
Boring first 10 pages This is actually one of the first things that get drummed into us. The inciting incident is nice during the first 10 pages but if for some reason, you don't have your inciting incident within the first 10 pages, those first 10 pages better be phenomenal and provide conflict, action, tension, and/or suspense. WE PASS.
Structure You'd be surprised at how many scripts we have to read that have no discernable structure. That means setting up the Protagonist. Inciting Incident. A crisis. Setting up the Antagonist. Subplots. Several twists, a climax, and resolution. WE PASS.
Action and description that cannot be shot You can't shoot a character that's thinking or dreaming of something that's happened to them in their past unless you've written that past in some action and description. Let me mention notes to the Reader again. WE PASS.
Dialogue Dialogue shouldn't be flat or on the nose. Good dialogue uses subtext. Bad dialogue explains the plot. Bad dialogue tells us what happened instead of letting us see it happen. Talking heads and specifically, pages of talking heads. It's not somebody else's job to figure out what your characters should be doing while they carry on their conversations. It's the writer's job. There's nothing worse than two characters standing together yapping for an entire page (or more) without something else also happening. Show don't tell. WE PASS.
Pet peeves Every reader I know has his and her pet peeves and though there's no way to know who will end up reading your script, it's best to cover as many bases as possible. Some of us readers for our agency also provide freelance reading for studios and producers so all the above still applies
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sniper |
Posted: February 20th, 2009, 4:19am |
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Old Timer My UZI Weighs A Ton
LocationNorthern Hemisphere Posts2249 Posts Per Day 0.48 |
Hey Giles,
Thanks for sharing. Not much new under the sun here but the "when a screenplay is less than 110 pages, we immediately begin to worry" actually surprised me a bit. |
| Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load |
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George Willson |
Posted: February 20th, 2009, 12:49pm |
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Of The Ancients Doctor who? Yes, quite right.
LocationBroken Arrow Posts3591 Posts Per Day 0.51 |
I like how they capitalized WE PASS. It's like they're trying to drum something into someone's head. My only pet peeve is that no one ever asks to read my scripts, so I never get this far... |
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Shelton |
Posted: February 20th, 2009, 12:55pm |
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Of The Ancients
LocationChicago Posts3292 Posts Per Day 0.49 |
Quoted from Murphy He has a friend who does some work as a reader for one of the big agencies and when he started he was handed an "under the table guidelines" before he read his first script.... |
The part in bold really stuck out to me. It was interesting to see the "too short" comment, but I actually wasn't that shocked by it. A lot of the scripts floating around out there (purchased/produced) are quite lengthy. |
| Shelton's IMDb Profile
"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin |
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Dreamscale |
Posted: February 21st, 2009, 4:48pm |
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This is really interesting cause I had a review for my Fade a few days ago from someone with only 1 post (the review to Fade) and he copied in a link for that very same set of things to look for, complete with the "WE PASS" stuff.
I thought he came across as a pro script reader or the like, based on his comments.
Giles, where did you come across this thing? |
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FDiogo |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 12:38pm |
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LocationPortugal Posts26 Posts Per Day 0.00 |
I hope I'm not posting on the wrong topic.
In a spec script, may I indicate the song to be played at some point ? |
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Shelton |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 12:43pm |
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Of The Ancients
LocationChicago Posts3292 Posts Per Day 0.49 |
Most will advise against it. My personal opinion is it depends on how much it actually has to do with the story. Is somebody singing, or is this just music in the background? If it's the latter, best to leave it out.
Also, try to take into how much the song may cost to obtain into consideration. Led Zeppelin and AC/DC are ridiculously expensive. |
| Shelton's IMDb Profile
"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin |
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FDiogo |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 12:46pm |
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LocationPortugal Posts26 Posts Per Day 0.00 |
Most will advise against it. My personal opinion is it depends on how much it actually has to do with the story. Is somebody singing, or is this just music in the background? If it's the latter, best to leave it out.
Also, try to take into how much the song may cost to obtain into consideration. Led Zeppelin and AC/DC are ridiculously expensive. |
Thank you very much |
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dogglebe |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 1:06pm |
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Another reason not to include particular songs is that the director may thing poorly of your song choices, which could only hurt you. What if you wrote a surfing script and included Little Surfer Girl? What if the director/producer/reader hates the Beach Boys for some reason?
Leave the songs and music out unless it's absolutely required.
Phil |
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dresseme |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 1:22pm |
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Quoted from Murphy Screenplays too short When a screenplay is less than 110 pages, we immediately begin to worry if there's going to be enough story in it to entertain and 99.99999999% of the time, there isn�t. WE PASS.
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I don't believe I've ever heard this. |
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dogglebe |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 1:49pm |
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In regards to the minimum number of pages, I've heard different amounts, going as far down as 85 pages.
Phil |
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Lakewood |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 1:54pm |
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Posts71 Posts Per Day 0.01 |
WE PASS indeed. Funny list. Nonsense but funny.
An entry level reader at an agency doesn't have the ability to PASS on anything. They write half page summaries on scripts that an agent can't remember asking to see and hope to heavens they graduate to a better quality of writer. |
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Andrew |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 4:39pm |
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Old Timer
Posts1791 Posts Per Day 0.32 |
That kind of list only emphasises how important luck is in this game. Rejecting scripts on fairly trivial matters is surely at the discretion of a reader. At the end of the day, great writing will circumvent the issue of length, I would hope.
Andrew |
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michel |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 4:57pm |
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Old Timer
LocationFrance Posts1156 Posts Per Day 0.18 |
Quoted Text Structure You'd be surprised at how many scripts we have to read that have no discernable structure. That means setting up the Protagonist. Inciting Incident. A crisis. Setting up the Antagonist. Subplots. Several twists, a climax, and resolution. WE PASS.
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Seriously, I wonder how many films are produced every year responding to those criterias? |
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michel |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 5:22pm |
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Old Timer
LocationFrance Posts1156 Posts Per Day 0.18 |
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grademan |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 5:24pm |
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Been Around
LocationWisconsin Posts872 Posts Per Day 0.16 |
It's all a winnowing process. They have to have a way to downsize the tremendous amount of scripts. Rules give us hoops to jump through. Become a CEO - follow the rules. Become a songwriter - follow the rules. And maybe after all those rules are complied with you be a produced scriptwriter. Famous. Wealthy.
Whoa! Where did that come from?
Gary |
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Andrew |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 5:41pm |
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Old Timer
Posts1791 Posts Per Day 0.32 |
It's all a winnowing process. They have to have a way to downsize the tremendous amount of scripts. Rules give us hoops to jump through. Become a CEO - follow the rules. Become a songwriter - follow the rules. And maybe after all those rules are complied with you be a produced scriptwriter. Famous. Wealthy.
Whoa! Where did that come from?
Gary |
You make a good point, Gary. I'm sure there's a lot of dross those guys have to read. Disregarding something without even the smallest of reads is a little silly, though! Having said that, I think luck and fate govern to a degree with these things. I am sure perseverance is the key tool for a writer in learning the craft, perfecting and then selling the fruits of the hard work. Andrew |
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michel |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 6:17pm |
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Old Timer
LocationFrance Posts1156 Posts Per Day 0.18 |
Quoted from dogglebe In regards to the minimum number of pages, I've heard different amounts, going as far down as 85 pages. Phil |
http://www.screenwriting.info/03.php
Quoted Text Script Length
The average feature screenplay, traditionally, is between 95 and 125 pages long. In Hollywood these days scripts generally don't run longer than 114 pages. Comedy scripts are typically shorter, dramas longer. There are, naturally, variations. You could be writing an action-packed film where your description takes only 10 seconds to read, but will take 45 seconds of film time. Here's an example:
"Cpl. Owens sheds his pack and picks up the machine gun. He runs from doorway to doorway, dodging enemy fire while shooting back, until he reaches the church bell tower."
Writing Tip: If you had a script full of scenes like this, you could come up with a short script in total pages... but that doesn't mean when it is filmed it would be short. By the same token, another writer could write the same scene and have it take up half a page. It just depends on the writing style of the individual writer.
125 page scripts are considered on the long side for a screenplay. Length is a very important component of the script. When you turn in a script to a producer, the very first thing s/he will do is fan through the pages and look at the last page to see how long it is. It doesn't matter if you've written the most incredible screenplay ever, if it's too long they may refuse to read it.
The Industry's aversion to long scripts is due to economic considerations. Films under two hours mean more showings per day in a theater, which means more revenue for the exhibitor, distributor, filmmaker, and possibly even you, the screenwriter.
When you realize your script is long and have to start cutting your work, keep in mind that if a scene can be removed and the story continues to work, that scene wasn't necessary. EVERY SCENE should not only move the story along to its conclusion; it should be an integral part of the path to the climax. |
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Lakewood |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 7:22pm |
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Posts71 Posts Per Day 0.01 |
Software like Final Draft has made screenplays longer. The always uniform spacing between elements and a constant top and bottom margin has added page count.
There used to this big fear about going over 120 pages but that's not true anymore. You see lots of scripts that run into the 140s that aren't epics. |
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Grandma Bear |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 7:26pm |
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Administrator
LocationThe Swamp... Posts7962 Posts Per Day 1.35 |
Inglorious Basterds was 167 pages.... I've also recently read a script, but I can't remember which one right now that was only 86, but the film was longer than that. |
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bobtheballa |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 8:27pm |
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dogglebe |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 8:40pm |
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Some of these guidelines should be taken more seriously than others. The ones regarding dialog and the first ten pages should be considered rules to live by. The ones colorful covers and page length...not so much. Still, wouldn't you say that this list is something to keep in mind?
Phil |
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steven8 |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 8:51pm |
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Old Timer The Ed Wood of Simply Scripts
LocationBarberton, OH Posts1156 Posts Per Day 0.22 |
It never hurts to have the last name of Coppola. Your scripts get into the right hands every time . . . |
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Lakewood |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 9:23pm |
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Posts71 Posts Per Day 0.01 |
As to the guy with his insider's list of tricks that allows him not to read things this a quote from an actual reader: "We do have to read everything that is submitted and determine which of the few merit a closer look by those in the position to make decisions about moving it on up the pipeline for potential acquisition and development. If we readers rave about a script in coverage, and the executive requesting the coverage agrees and also raves about it, this script will be passed on to the highest level exec or producer(s) in the company who have the ultimate say so on whether a property is acquired or not." Here is a link to the interview if anyone is interested: http://www.gointothestory.com/2008/12/dispatches-from-front-line-script.htmlAdded the index to all the interview sections: http://scottdistillery.googlepages.com/ascriptreaderspeaks |
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bert |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 9:36pm |
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AdministratorBuy the ticket, take the ride
LocationThat's me in the corner Posts4233 Posts Per Day 0.61 |
So, noodling around the site Lakewood suggested, I find this:
Quoted from Scott Myers My point is this: you're lucky! With a couple of clicks of your computer's mouse, you can tap into a universe of screenplays -- for free! My favorite screenplay hosting website is SimplyScripts.com, but there are plenty others. |
So the guy obviously knows his stuff, right? Always fun to find SS being discussed outside our own little corner of the internet. Here's the link to that particular page. http://www.gointothestory.com/2008/07/14-days-of-screenplays.html |
| Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb! |
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steven8 |
Posted: April 28th, 2009, 10:30pm |
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Old Timer The Ed Wood of Simply Scripts
LocationBarberton, OH Posts1156 Posts Per Day 0.22 |
Nice site. Good article. Scott Myers gives a one week certificate course in Feature Film Writing at UCLA Extension to the tune of $2650.00 U.S. |
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jecastellon |
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 10:49pm |
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LocationChile, Southamerica Posts27 Posts Per Day 0.00 |
Quoted Text "Directing the script No camera angles. No songs. No soundtracks. No actors. WE PASS. |
I don't get it... Aren't we supposed to NOT give directing suggestions unless it's actually critical for the reading of the script?... And if I don't have an actor in mind it should pass, too? Hmmm... |
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George Willson |
Posted: May 19th, 2009, 6:49pm |
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Of The Ancients Doctor who? Yes, quite right.
LocationBroken Arrow Posts3591 Posts Per Day 0.51 |
The deal here is to keep it simple as much as possible. If the direction is essential to telling the story, include it. If it can be told some oter way, then tell it another way. |
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dogglebe |
Posted: May 20th, 2009, 12:23am |
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In homebrewing circles, there's a phrase, 'hotside aeration.' In a nutshell, it refers to introducing oxygen to the unfermented beer while it's still very hot (you boil the ingredients to make beer). Doing so is bad for the finished beer, or so they say.
While there are many people who believe that hotside aeration is a problem, there is an equal number of people who believe that it is bullshit. In the end, there is no one who says that hotside aeration is good for the beer. For this reason, I avoid hotside aeration.
The same can be said for WE SEE and many of the other debatable things in script writing. While some people will say that it doesn't hurt a script, no one will say that this phrase will help a script. For this reason, it (and other debatable issues) should be avoided.
Enjoy!
Phil |
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steven8 |
Posted: May 20th, 2009, 12:37am |
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Old Timer The Ed Wood of Simply Scripts
LocationBarberton, OH Posts1156 Posts Per Day 0.22 |
ANGLE ON the brewing process as we see the hotside aeration begin to happen.
Phil snatches a huge stirring paddle and attacks the frothy mixture.
PHIL (Almost hysterical) Down, damn you! Down! I'll NOT HAVE hotside aeration in MY brewing process!!
The link provided above about making sure not to have red flags in your script no matter how talented you seem to be, or think you are was an excellent piece! It makes such total simple sense. Why sabotage your work by leaving in the red flags and try to explain it away. It'll just hurt you in the long run. |
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