Quoted from DustinBowcot I'm not sure I'd say that everything he does is perfect - even within context. He just does things his way and that is best for him. You can not say he is wrong - especially as he is doing better than you. If you write so well and Warren doesn't, yet he does better than you... then something isn't adding up right somewhere.

It's definitely not adding up.  That is for sure.

Last weekend, my girlfriend, Teri, and I had 5 grand kids over.  They love "her" Mac and Cheese, which is actually just Kraft in a box with the addition of a little Velveeta.  It's not good by any means, and she knows it.

I wanted to do a little test, so she and I made a gourmet Mac and Cheese, she made her usual and we served each kid a little of each to see what they had to say.

All 5 kids hated mine, and loved hers.  They all ate hers and Teri and I ate mine.

As I've been saying lately, I'm playing in the wrong sandbox here at SS, it appears.

Are you calling all of us here at SS and the people that option and buy our scripts Kraft Macaroni and cheese in the box people and you're the Gourmet restaurant quality mac and cheese????  

C'mon Jeff.

Plenty of people here have had successes. In fact, just today, I got a message from a writer who's not an active member anymore, but has sold two features from here. Both films are muslim positive films and have been shot in Dubai. He made a lot of money from both sales. Or are big studios all that counts?

Quoted from Grandma Bear Are you calling all of us here at SS and the people that option and buy our scripts Kraft Macaroni and cheese in the box people and you're the Gourmet restaurant quality mac and cheese????   C'mon Jeff. Plenty of people here have had successes. In fact, just today, I got a message from a writer who's not an active member anymore, but has sold two features from here. Both films are muslim positive films and have been shot in Dubai. He made a lot of money from both sales. Or are big studios all that counts?

You can take my comments anyway you choose to,

Big studios are definitely not all that count.  Any success is "success".

Kraft Mac and Cheese is the most popular and most successful Mac and Cheese in the world, I would imagine.  It's not remotely good Mac and Cheese, though.

Quoted from Dreamscale Hell Yes!

Okay - at least that clarifies where we disagree. I'm okay with it,

Quoted from Dreamscale So that means everything he does is perfect and everything I say is wrong? God, I sure hope not...

1) Everything Warren does is not perfect. A lot of what Warren does is top notch.

2) Many of the things you say are right. Many are wrong.

You seem to be stuck in a screenwriting 101 class. Look, if I have a technical question - i.e., how does the book say I should do something format wise, etc - you're my go to guy. I think you know the stuff backwards and forward.

What you don't know, or can't seem to grasp, is that they are merely guidelines and the violation of them is not inherently a bad thing and it can in fact enhance the story/script. As an example, I use to not to  use asides until I started seeing them in scripts that I loved. Same with unfilmables, etc. I am grateful that I read enough scripts that I got to the point where I use them and I am comfortable breaking the rules where it can enhance my story and the read. Those same violations seem to cause you great angst.

What continues to befuddle me is why you haven't reached that point yourself when there is clear evidence in successful pro scripts and in challenges like our OWCs that the so called rules are far less important than clarity, story, entertainment, tone, pace, etc. The so called rules are the least important aspect of script writing and if they are violated to make a better read - all the better. Long winded way of saying the script writing world has changed. Fighting that change is non-productive.

Quoted from eldave1 1) Everything Warren does is not perfect. A lot of what Warren does is top notch. 2) Many of the things you say are right. Many are wrong. You seem to be stuck in a screenwriting 101 class. Look, if I have a technical question - i.e., how does the book say I should do something format wise, etc - you're my go to guy. I think you know the stuff backwards and forward. What you don't know, or can't seem to grasp, is that they are merely guidelines and the violation of them is not inherently a bad thing and it can in fact enhance the story/script. As an example, I use to not to  use asides until I started seeing them in scripts that I loved. Same with unfilmables, etc. I am grateful that I read enough scripts that I got to the point where I use them and I am comfortable breaking the rules where it can enhance my story and the read. Those same violations seem to cause you great angst. What continues to befuddle me is why you haven't reached that point yourself when there is clear evidence in successful pro scripts and in challenges like our OWCs that the so called rules are far less important than clarity, story, entertainment, tone, pace, etc. The so called rules are the least important aspect of script writing and if they are violated to make a better read - all the better. Long winded way of saying the script writing world has changed. Fighting that change is non-productive.

Well, it's Friday and I guess it's not to early for me to start drinking, as I feel like I really need a few drinks right now after reading the last few posts here.

Dave, if you read back, you will see that I simply responded to the thread topic, and expanded on something someone else said.  I did not mention any names in particular, and I clarified exactly why I said what I said.

This has nothing to with Warren or anyone else, really.  But, others, including Warren decided to take it there, and then put me down as a writer, and lift Warren up to the stratosphere.

This also has absolutely nothing to do with rules.  I've never read any screenwriting rule books, nor do I have any interest or intention to do so.  I am one of the very few who do not care about rules.  I care about what makes sense, what makes the most sense, what looks the best, and what makes for the easiest read.

Using OS for a character who has already been intro'd, and is obviously in the scene, is both confusing and completely unnecessary in a Spec script.

Let me repeat that...

Using OS for a character who has already been intro'd, and is obviously in the scene, is both confusing and completely unnecessary in a Spec script.

If you really disagree with this, I guess it's either another long discussion back and forth, or we simply agree to disagree.

Quoted from DustinBowcot I've never heard of Michael Bay .

He's the guy who took a much loved franchise (transformers) and turned them into a series of seriously shitty movies.

He also stole 3 hours of my life when I watched pearl harbour

Quoted from Matthew Taylor He's the guy who took a much loved franchise (transformers) and turned them into a series of seriously shitty movies. He also stole 3 hours of my life when I watched pearl harbour

And he's responsible for many billions of dollars coming into the movie franchise and also responsible for making stars of many people.

Just to be clear, I've never said listen to everything I say because I'm amazing and always right. I gave a few examples from pro scripts and said that I would chose to emulate them over a writer that has not been successful and who's work I don't enjoy.

I also haven't had any real world success, but people seem to like some of the scripts I write. A lot of the things I do in my scripts I've seen in pro scripts and I'm comfortable using them, so when one or two writers call me out on it that's not an issue. Sure if everyone believes the same thing is a problem I'll go back and reassess. The same thing can be said if something is questioned by a writer I respect and admire, I'll look at the issue again.

So I'm not saying listen to me, I'm saying listen to the pros (I'm not talking about gurus who talk crap, I'm talking about scripts you love and that have found success), I just happen to do and talk about the things I've seen in their work.

Quoted from Dreamscale Dave, if you read back, you will see that I simply responded to the thread topic, and expanded on something someone else said.  I did not mention any names in particular, and I clarified exactly why I said what I said. This has nothing to with Warren or anyone else, really.  But, others, including Warren decided to take it there, and then put me down as a writer, and lift Warren up to the stratosphere.

Did you read the same thread I did, mate?

Lon said this:

Quoted Text I agree.  But then I'm not a big fan of the writer trying to direct the camera in the first place.  But that's a whole other discussion.

Warren quoted Lon and responded with this:

Quoted Text It's our story to tell so we can direct the camera however we want. Every block of action we write we‘re directing the camera. We are telling the filmmaker what is on screen. Same with V.O. and O.S., if I want the camera pointing somewhere and someone is speaking off screen and that’s how I imagine my movie looking that’s how I’m going to write it....

You can see that you were not mentioned. Nor was Warren digging at you or elevating himself.

Then you quoted Warren's comment and responded with this:

Quoted Text Ha...typical Warren here.  And yes, I was referring to some of his recent scripts where he used OS for not reason, making for a very confusing read. In most movies, we have scenes of peeps talking and most of the time, the person speaking will be shown, but other times, the person listening will be shown while the other person speaks. BUT, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to try and write your Spec script that way. Just a very poor idea.

So:

- Warren never mentioned you or responded to your post in any manner or put you down as a writer.

- However - You brought Warren up as well as his scripts - out of the friggin blue.

Help me out friend, what post am I missing??????

Quoted Text This also has absolutely nothing to do with rules.  I've never read any screenwriting rule books, nor do I have any interest or intention to do so.  I am one of the very few who do not care about rules.  I care about what makes sense, what makes the most sense, what looks the best, and what makes for the easiest read.

Okay.

Quoted Text Using OS for a character who has already been intro'd, and is obviously in the scene, is both confusing and completely unnecessary in a Spec script. Let me repeat that... Using OS for a character who has already been intro'd, and is obviously in the scene, is both confusing and completely unnecessary in a Spec script. If you really disagree with this, I guess it's either another long discussion back and forth, or we simply agree to disagree.

Yes, I disagree with you, Jeff. Mostly because I have read scripts where an OS was used for a character who has already been intro'd, and is in the scene - where I WAS NOT confused. Nor did I find it unnecessary.  i.e., I have empirical evidence that it does not inherently cause confusion - cause I read it and was not confused.  

Could it? - Sure, if not handled clearly. Does it inherently - nope.

So, looks like we will agree to disagree, mate.

Dave, maybe you missed a post from Warren, directed at me, which he or someone else quickly pulled down.

It was the cause of basically all this.

Quoted from Dreamscale Dave, maybe you missed a post from Warren, directed at me, which he or someone else quickly pulled down. It was the cause of basically all this.

There was a post that consisted of nothing but a link, but it was gone when I came back.

Quoted from FrankM There was a post that consisted of nothing but a link, but it was gone when I came back.

It was a link to the standings, it was an attempt to make people question where they are getting their advise. I took it down and replaced it with my post about people questioning the credentials of who's advice they are taking. So the exact same thing, but with words.

The examples I gave here are from pro scripts not mine. I'm not saying listen to me over Jeff, I'm saying listen to the pros over Jeff. I just happen to do some things I've seen in their scripts.

If Jeff feels bad about his placing in the standings that's on him.

Quoted from Warren It was a link to the standings, it was an attempt to make people question where they are getting their advise. I took it down and replaced it with my post about people questioning the credentials of who's advice they are taking. So the exact same thing, but with words. The examples I gave here are from pro scripts not mine. I'm not saying listen to me over Jeff, I'm saying listen to the pros over Jeff. I just happen to do some things I've seen in their scripts.

Yeah.  Your post of the link was to show where you stood, as in basically saying the same thing Dustbag keeps chirping in with, about what a great writer you are and what a terrible writer I am.

Quoted from Warren If Jeff feels bad about his placing in the standings that's on him.

That's another story completely, my friend.  Let's not go there again now, OK?

I hope the sequel to A Quiet Place is more John Krasinski and less Michael Bay (the latter is producing). Too much flash would kill it.