Hey James.

I like Texas and I like Westerns, so I thought I'd check this out.

Sort of a modern western going on here.  I like that aspect.

Honestly, I think I'm sort of opposite of everybody else.  (I didn't read the arguments, though, just everybody's early opinions of the story.)

It seems most readers disliked your opening, but liked the ending.  I actually like the beginning.  Even with the large chunks of voiceover, it was still an entertaining tale how the father got put into jail.  But I didn't like the ending at all.

The dialogue was good throughout, (a little heavy for Del, but I'll get to that later), I'll give you props on that.  But really, all that happens at the end is that Cordell shoots Sam and Del shoots Cordell.  It's so plain and vanilla and expected.  Even Cordell knows what's going to happen and he still doesn't defend himself against it.  And then an old man comes out and asks why Del's taking his father's body away?  That seemed disjointed.

I agree with some that Del's overly thick accent gets in the way of reading.  It can probably be toned down some without losing much of the accent.  It almost seemed like 1849 instead of 1949 because of his over-slave-like accent.

But the beginning did work for me.  I admit, I like just sitting around and listening to a story being told sometimes.

While the ending was weak in my opinion, it was still enough that I enjoyed the story for what it was.  Do you have any other stories on the boards?

- Mark

My apologies, Bert, but you're right.  I definitely have trouble not responding to prods aimed directly at me.

Dustin, just for the record, I'll say it again.  In no way, shape, or form do I simply repeat over and over what I've heard, in terms of feedback, advice, etc.  SO far from it, in fact.

What I repeat over and over is what I feel makes the most sense and what i know works and doesn't work.  I tell peeps over and over that when they receive feedback, some will be good and some will be terrible advice, and that it's up to them to not only figure out which is which, but also decide where they stand and why.

You, on the other hand, are obviously a parrot, among other things, as you continually squawk about all the BS that you've read in your 40 year old screenwriting books.  Classic structure, character arcs, STFC, on and on, and when someone points out obvious, glaring mistakes in your writing, your response is either no response at all, because you can't own up to your own mistakes, or, you say something to the effect, "easy fix - not worried about it".

You should be worried about it.  And you should want to produce the best script you can.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm a bully, as I'm so far from one.  I'm the guy that sticks up for all the little peeps out there.

You, on the other hand, have made it very clear who and what you are when you first stormed into SS.  You're arrogant beyond belief, and based on the writing you've shared, I don't have a clue where all that arrogance is coming from.  Your responses to feedback also show your character.  And then, your irritating little snide comments make it clear that you're most likely that A-Hole that everyone can't wait to punch in the face.

I've tried to play nice. I've tried to ignore you, but I'm only human.  I'll do my best to steer clear of anything you post but the truth is that we'll come across each other on other peep's threads.  If I irritate you so much with my comments to other peeps, just ignore them and continue to be the little shit you are.  OK?  You cool with that?

Bert, my response in post 15 was purely down to DS contradicting himself in the very next breath. I found it funny. He then went on one of his usual, nonsensical foul-mouthed rants. He actually called me out for an argument, not the other way around. DS not seeing the humour in his contradictory post isn't my fault. I just pointed it out to him. He has the choice how he responds to that. As usual he picks the angry way.

Quoted from Dreamscale My apologies, Bert, but you're right.  I definitely have trouble not responding to prods aimed directly at me.

So of course that makes it OK that you continue... again.

Quoted from Dreamscale Dustin, just for the record, I'll say it again.  In no way, shape, or form do I simply repeat over and over what I've heard, in terms of feedback, advice, etc.  SO far from it, in fact.

OK, let's say that I believe you... what now?

Quoted from Dreamscale What I repeat over and over is what I feel makes the most sense and what i know works and doesn't work.

Ah. I thought so. So let's get this straight, you are not parroting what you hear, you're telling us what works and what doesn't work from your experience? Which is what?

Quoted from Dreamscale You, on the other hand, are obviously a parrot, among other things, as you continually squawk about all the BS that you've read in your 40 year old screenwriting books.  Classic structure, character arcs, STFC, on and on,

Story writing hasn't changed in structure since Aristotle. We can go back that far if you like.

Quoted from Dreamscale and when someone points out obvious, glaring mistakes in your writing, your response is either no response at all, because you can't own up to your own mistakes, or, you say something to the effect, "easy fix - not worried about it".

Completely untrue... and this will be glaringly obvious to many people that happen to read this. You're just making yourself look even more of an idiot now.

Quoted from Dreamscale And then, your irritating little snide comments make it clear that you're most likely that A-Hole that everyone can't wait to punch in the face.

It's called wit, Dreamscale. A skill you most certainly lack. I can see that it drives you crazy being unable to summon the repartee for a decent exchange. Shame. I actually don't think you do smoke weed now. I think you're on meth.

Quoted from Dreamscale I've tried to play nice. I've tried to ignore you, but I'm only human.

Sounds like you're going to ask me on a date...

Quoted from Dreamscale I'll do my best to steer clear of anything you post but the truth is that we'll come across each other on other peep's threads.  If I irritate you so much with my comments to other peeps, just ignore them and continue to be the little shit you are.  OK?  You cool with that?

I'm cool with ignoring you. You're really no fun. Watching you get angry has lost its lustre. I thought you had more.

My only comment on this row: It's like a Western within a Western.

.............

Mark,

Why thanks for all that. And I really appreciate the read.

You know for some odd reason, I can agree with you The beginning is certainly different from the ending and in a way, as I was writing the story, I realized that the ending is sort of 'quick' and not as well developed. Very kind of bare-bones Western. Not a whole lot of meat on that ending. Hence being "weak" Yeah, it is sort of that plain vanilla "formula". But I like vanilla And you know it's a short, and I guess I don't have the talent to actually make something of a different flavor for that ending in what amounts to 6 or so pages. No matter how much I try to rewrite it, I'm sure there'll be some vanilla in there somewhere.

I think for like a feature, there are always ways to play up that angle. But even in a movie like Rio Bravo, which is very dialogue based and one great piece of film making, the action is very mild in that one. But I guess it's effective given all that happens before hand. Same goes for High Noon.

The old man at the end. It was meant to be kind of funny, and it kind of made sense to me that someone would come outside and question Del's taking of the body and just question the survivor I guess. And I had to keep it short. It's odd in a way, yeah. Not really disjointed, not from my perspective anyway. But certainly a different feeling from what happens before, at least on the page.

I did write another short but it's not something I would bother reading if I were you. For one, there's no story. And for two, its too odd for most people to wrap their heads around. Which is probably a bad sign

Again, thanks for the read Mark. I'll have to check out some of your scripts when I have time this week. Others too, if I can find anything you've all written recently.

Best,

-J.S.

James

A lot of V.O, in the beginning here as others have pointed it out, too much perhaps without any action to break it up, barely even character movements. I really enjoyed the language used though, so very realistic that I presume you are either from the area or really done your research. It was a little hard to read at times but gave the piece a singular character and voice, something you can’t say about a lot of scripts. Not to mention it give the characters a certain extra depth and personality which would be difficult to achieve otherwise.  It felt like I was reading a William Faulkner novel!

As for the story, it’s an interesting one, just a shame you chose to tell us rather than show us. Of course we wouldn’t get all that delicious regional dialect but everything is practically told to us via dialogue rather than action.

I really liked the final scenes of the shootout and Del taking Sam away to bury him, very simple but eloquently told, you really get a feel for these damned individuals, adrift out in this desolate wasteland. We are waiting so long for a confrontation that when it does happen I was totally immersed, the build up had me genuinely engaged to see what happened, which is testament to the dialogue as that s all the first 13 pages really consist of. I can understand others been totally put off by the excessive talking though, if you are ruthless enough in the rewrite this could be cut by a third at the very least.

Best of luck with it.

Col.

Hey Col.

Thank you for the read. I really appreciate it.

I'm glad you enjoyed the language and the characters since that's usually as big a priority for me as thinking about the story. No, I'm not from the area. I went by movies I've watched, books I've read, and what I've heard. Some of it I'm sure is probably somewhat exaggerated and a fiction. But I don't go for realism as much as I go for balance and flow. I agree with you that language gives characters depth and personality that's why I try to be careful in what I have the characters say. Thanks for the compliment that you felt it was something like Faulkner That's quite a compliment to be receiving for someone like me who loves his work

The story is more dialogue based, yes, because I made the conscious effort to keep it in one location since shorts more often than not are. For a feature, I would have made heavy usage of landscapes and the outdoors since that's more representative of the region, I think.

I'm glad you enjoyed the action in the end. A lot of it reminds me of High Noon and Rio Bravo when I think about it now in retrospect. Those films are very heavy on the dialogue/characters chatting and most of the action happens towards the end. I can't say that's what I was going for, because honestly I wasn't even aware of it until just recently, but I can see the resemblance. Yes, I think movies that do a good setup of that in the beginning make the action that much more worth it. And yes, I did want the first 13 pages to be a strong build up for what occurs at the end. I sort of knew that that was what I was going to do when I finished the V.O. But that wasn't my initial plan. I'm glad I was able to deliver on that I've been working on the third draft on and off, majority of it is on the V.O., but I'll get to "Act II" rewriting and some finer polishing on Act III and post that.

I don't believe I've read any of your work Col. I'll get on that as soon as possible. I've been working on a feature script for the past month and so my review time has been shortened as a result. And also as a result, until I finish that I won't be finishing the third draft of this script.

Thanks for the honest feedback. It's very helpful to hear your thoughts. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Best,

-J.S.

Quoted from J.S. I'm glad you enjoyed the action in the end. A lot of it reminds me of High Noon and Rio Bravo when I think about it now in retrospect. Those films are very heavy on the dialogue/characters chatting and most of the action happens towards the end.

- You know I thought the exact same thing when I read it since I only watched those two films back to back in the last few months. Rio Bravo is especially heavy n dialogue, clocking in at over an hour longer than High Noon.

As I said though, you’ve clearly got the writing skills to flesh out  three dimensional characters and create a dramatic situation, just look to executing it in a less novel, more cinematic way.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 - You know I thought the exact same thing when I read it since I only watched those two films back to back in the last few months. Rio Bravo is especially heavy n dialogue, clocking in at over an hour longer than High Noon. As I said though, you�ve clearly got the writing skills to flesh out  three dimensional characters and create a dramatic situation, just look to executing it in a less novel, more cinematic way.

Okay, I sorta lied. I now remember distinctly thinking of Sergeant York every once in a while during writing. But I haven't seen Rio Bravo since last year so I wasn't thinking of that for sure. York I watched a few months back and I just fell in love with it.

It's nice to hear the characters are coming off three-dimensional. I usually don't trust those kinds of kind words from friends because well, they're my friends, who knows, they might want something from me in exchange for torturing them through this Your comments are very much appreciated. As I said, I'll try to make time into my busy schedule sometime this week and I'll give a few of your scripts a read.

Thanks again Col.

Take care,

-J.S.

"INT. TEXAS DINER (1927) (LATE MORNING)
Which appears very ordinary for this period and region,
though quite darker inside than the scorching sunlight.
Fairly quiet.

FADE IN on DEL, medium built man who just hit forty-five;
oily, faded flannel shirt, jeans, and Stetson, sits at a
booth. He gazes out the window, eyes parted some. Lit
cigarette between fingers, arms crossed over table. Light
guest count. With a strong voice:"


- I take it you mean the diner appears ordinary, going from the slugline? Some could perceive this as lazy writing - rather than adding some illustration to the scene you seem to be just asking the reader to throw up something from their imagination - and I must say mine is a little sparse on 1920s diners. More at home with the 30s through various gangster serialisations.

- Hadn't we already faded in before Del was introduced? There was a 'FADE IN' at the start?


- Wow! I wasn't expecting such a long piece from Del. Must say the slang does deter the read a little bit - but of course it adds to the characterisation and I must say you mention that characterisation is something you strive towards. Must admit if I was in a bar with this fella I'd probably move away to save my ears from him. But at least for the actor he knows where he's at exactly.

- My only worry, with such a stream of dialogue, is that it may not hold audience attention. Unless someone's giving a particularly rousing speech it is hard enough in real life to hear them out. But at least in real life you can interject comments to try and make what they're saying a little more fluid.

- "Eyes carry bags; nails carry dirt."  

- Pik it up.

- Sun..!


I was expecting Cordell to actually pull some sort of dirty trick before he just shot Sam out right - and I guess it was predictable enough that Del shot him, I wasn't sure whether there would be another twist in the tale.

Did things like this still happen at that time?

Overall it was a nice genre piece. I'm not certain I've ever seen a script with so much slang in the dialogue, but of course it was consistent - which is important. And, no doubt it was how they spoke at the time. Are you thinking of adapting this into a feature, or filming it as it is? I'm not sure I've seen many short 'westerns' - or post-westerns as this would be I suppose - mainly because production costs would be high to try and correctly simulate the sort of historical environment necessary for production, I suppose.

Why thanks so much for the read.

Though I'll be uploading a better draft sometime in the near future. I'm in the middle of a feature script so I've put this one aside.

There are large portions of it that do not satisfy me wholly. I know what I have to do to it, but I haven't actually done it

"I take it you mean the diner appears ordinary, going from the slugline? Some could perceive this as lazy writing - rather than adding some illustration to the scene you seem to be just asking the reader to throw up something from their imagination - and I must say mine is a little sparse on 1920s diners. More at home with the 30s through various gangster serialisations."

Yeah. Exactly. There's no need to get into those specifics because it would just detract from the read, imo.

"Hadn't we already faded in before Del was introduced? There was a 'FADE IN' at the start?"

Yeah, I've figured a better way to do this now. Essentially, it means that The fade in is on Del himself, rather than more generally on the diner atmosphere.

"Must admit if I was in a bar with this fella I'd probably move away to save my ears from him. But at least for the actor he knows where he's at exactly."

Right, exactly. This is why I thought it would be better to do it as a voice-over rather than a soliloquy, guy talking to someone else. It's funny, actually, because he talks so rarely in the scene minus the voice-over that is. But also, it's funny, because in an earlier draft he says something about talking differently in his head than when he talks to other people I deleted that, but I thought it was funny.

"My only worry, with such a stream of dialogue, is that it may not hold audience attention."

Yes, I can sympathize with that worry. But because I've never seen it done before I would be interested in seeing whether it would work or not. Also, as I mentioned, it was written in a way that would allow the audience to visualize what happened simply from the voice-over, rather than being shown what happens. Telling rather than showing, in this case. Like listening to someone telling you a story.

I'm not going to expand it further. I've had the fleeting thought of doing a western feature, but nothing like this script.