I think this story has made it world wide.  There was a horrible killing at the Vancouver airport when the police tasered a man and killed him.  He was from Poland and was coming to visit his mother.  For some reason airport security were holding him for like 10 hrs, I'm not sure their reason yet, but he went buggy and the police were called in and they tasered him and he died.

here is the footage, be warned, it's disturbing to see someone actually die.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qHKk5qQRzL4

That is just insane!
They didn't need to that to him just because they couldn't understand each other.

Could you imagine going to a different country, not speaking the language, and you are held against your will?

He probably thought "they" were going to kill him... and they did.

The poor guy was having an anxiety attack, sweating, scared to death.

So what if he busted up a table. That didn't make it alright for them to taser him.
I hope those guys who did that get thrown in a very small room for a long, long time. Maybe they'll act up, and get tasered themselves.

Now I'm upset.

Humm... I got deported from that country. They let us go after about an hour of questions, but that was at the border, not an airport. I'm glad it was at the border, and we all spoke English.

Cindy

Yep, that story has made it around the world. It was on TV here, but I also read about it in the Swedish news.

Incidently, not long ago there was a taser incident here at UF "Don't tase me bro". That guy however was found to be wrong and the cops were cleared.

I could see it if the guy was coming after a cop, but there were, what, three or four of them, and he wasn't going after them to hurt them. He was cowering back.

I live pretty much 15 minutes away from the airport where this happened and it's been on the news every day this week, so by now I've accumulated quite a bit of knowledge about what happened.

First of all, they're not saying that the tazer was actually the cause of death.  They're saying it was asphixiation from when the cop had his knee on his neck for about 1 minute straight.  It's not a standard police manuever, but it is not illegal in situations where the suspect is resisting.

He was in the area for 10-ish hours -- but he wasn't acting that way the entire time.  The thing is that his mother, that he was visiting from Poland, told him to wait where he was actually waiting.  The problem was that she didn't realize that she wasn't allowed in that area.  So for the next 10 hours she pleaded with the security to go find his son.  They kept telling her that everything would be alright.  And during this time, he grew more and more restless and I guess when nobody decided to help him, he snapped.

Now before the video was realeased, the cops pretty much lied about everything that happened.  They said there were only 3 cops on the scene(there were 4 in the video)and they also lied about a couple other things that I've forgotten.  They also said that they decided to tazer him as quickly as they did because he was weilding a stapler(which is true, but c'mon...seriously?)and that in less than 5 minutes, a plane was arriving and their would be a surge of about 300 passengers in the area.  That's also the reason why they said that they didn't initially use pepperspray

I think this is horrible.  I hope that all these officers receive severe punishment and if that doesn't happen, at least this will not be forgotten soon and they'll have to try and live their lives with everyone knowing what they did.  I'm glad this is receiving worlwide notice because hopefully it means the use of the tazer will be reviewed for like the 10000th time and maybe they'll stop using it.  I know it's effective but if it's killing people, they might as well be using their handguns and shooting people in the foot.

Hopefully this makes more sense of the story.

Although the RCMP are directly to blame for this incident, there are also questions concerning the role of YVR (airport) staff. Believe it or not, after 10 hours waiting for her son, the mother was told that he was not in the airport and she drove home (4 hours away) only to arrive home to a message asking her to return to the airport.

Airport security should never have let this escalate to the point where the victim was hysterical. There was a clear lack of communication that set to motion the unfortunate outcome.

After seeing this, there was clearly no need to use a Taser on him. No reason whatsover. I'm glad this was taped and I'm glad this issue has been brought to light.

If you have seen this on the news, the cry and shriek of a dying and scared man will haunt you forever.

May he rest in peace.

Stew

AN Update

VANCOUVER, British Columbia - Four police officers involved in the death of a Polish immigrant from a Taser stun gun have been reassigned, officials said Saturday.
  
Federal police commissioner William Elliott would not say how long the officers would be assigned to other duties. He acknowledged that images of Robert Dziekanski's death in a videotape shot by a bystander are "disturbing for anyone who sees them."

The 40-year-old Dziekanski, of Gliwice, Poland, was shot by officers using a Taser stun gun a month ago at Vancouver International Airport.

Elliott said, however, it would be inappropriate for anyone "to draw conclusions based on these images alone." He defended the use of Tasers by the force, saying they are safe and effective in most cases, but called for a thorough review of the incident.

"This serious event deserves a comprehensive and complete examination," said Elliott, whose comments were prompted by the public outrage that ensued after video footage of the incident was released this week.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have said they are reviewing Taser use. Eighteen people have died in Canada after being hit with a Taser in the last four years.

The man who shot the videotape, Paul Pritchard, said he initially thought that police acted appropriately. But he said he has changed his mind after watching the videotape, which he lent to police and was returned to him a month later.

The video showed officers zapping a distressed Dziekanski twice, 46 seconds after arriving on scene, and then physically subduing him on the floor. Dziekanski died at the scene.

"He wasn't acting violent in any way. That's what is most disturbing," Pritchard said.

It was Dziekanski's first flight, and was to be the start of a new life with his mother in western Canada.

Dziekanski, who spoke only Polish, had begun acting erratically at the airport. He apparently became upset when he did not see his mother after waiting for about 10 hours in the secure baggage area — which she was not allowed to enter.

Police used the stun gun as Dziekanski was walking away from them, with his back to them.

Elliott said several investigations would be conducted, including those by a homicide unit and the coroner's office in British Columbia and an independent commission that looks into complaints against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Reassigned!

Charges should be brought against them!

Dziekanski was throwing items around the airport and creating a disturbance prior to his detainment.  While the end-result of this incident is tragic, I don't see the police acting inappropriately.


Phil

Quoted from dogglebe Dziekanski was throwing items around the airport and creating a disturbance prior to his detainment.  While the end-result of this incident is tragic, I don't see the police acting inappropriately. Phil

The problem Phil, is that he was doing that a couple of hours before the police arrived. By the time they arrived he had actually calmed down. By then, he was more afraid than angry. The reason why the police tasered him (in their original report, not sure if that has changed since the video was released), was that he was carrying a dangerous weapon... a stapler.

The Taser (I am led to believe) is supposed to be a last-resort measure. Clearly from the video, apart from talking to the victim as they approached, no other measure were taken. He turns his back to the police and Zap.

A couple of weeks ago in downtown Vancouver, a crazed man was weilding a chain and hammer and causing a disturbace and threat. He struck down an officer attempting to calm the situation and when back-up arrived, they tried to difuse the situation, but could not get close enough to taser him. Thefore, when he charged them (some say he was running away), they had to open fire and get to the downed police officer. A lot of people say the RCMP over-reacted. I say they did what they had to to get to the fallen officer. The reason why I mention this, is there is a clear difference between handling a situation between a man weilding a chain and hammer and a main weilding a stapler.

There's probably a lot of kids on YouTube right now watching this video and posting "Fuck the police!" and "Police brutality! Rodney King!" I'm definitely not one of those people but I do think these cops used excessive force. A tazor's supposed to incapacitate, not kill. I'm positive this poor guy was well incapacitated before he died and if this guy had indeed calmed down by the time police arrived, they had no reason to tazor him. Three or four cops against one guy with a stapler? WTF? Are these guys really that threatened of an office supply? Perhaps the tape has more information but I refuse to watch it. I have no interest in watching a real human being die. Overall, I think this was a tragic event that didn't need to happen.

This is coming from someone who thought the "don't taze me, bro" kid at the John Kerry forum was an idiot and was basically asking to be tazered.

Quoted from MacDuff The Taser (I am led to believe) is supposed to be a last-resort measure. Clearly from the video, apart from talking to the victim as they approached, no other measure were taken. He turns his back to the police and Zap.

Hand guns are the last resort measure (unless airport police in Canada don't carry them).  Tasers are designed to be non-lethal.  If one killed somebody, you can't blame the cop who used it.

Maybe I missed something, but wasn't this guy holding a chair up?  Not exactly the sign of a calm person.



Phil

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr511392004

The use of Tasers has become almost standard practice.

We live in frightening times.

Governments now consider us all suspects and treat us as such.

Just how far are we going to alow them to sink?

I don't thin the police should take the whole blame, YVR has a LOT of explaining to do.

First, why was he held for 10 hrs?

Second, After 10 hrs why couldn't they find a translator?  Thy could have gone on the PA and say "hey, anyone here speak Polish, it's a major airport, I'm sure they could have found somebody.

Third, Why didn't they tell his mother when she asked about him?  Do they not communicate with their staff?

Fourth, Why did they not tell the Police he was Polish, they must have known from his passport, The RCMP thought he was Russian which means they didn't even talk to them and explain the entire situation to them.

The RCMP did act excessive, but I feel most of the blame should be held to YVR, if they would have acted properly this man would not be dead, he would be at home with his mother.  There are no excuses for their behavior, and because of their irresponsibility's a man is dead.

The police did exactly what they were supposed to do.  They detained an agitated passenger.  It's not their fault the airport couldn't find a polish translater.  They used a taser on him and not a handgun.  It was not their intention to kill him.


Phil

The situation should never of happened though, it was YVR's fault this event occurred.  I saw in the paper that they had a memorial service at the airport near where he was killed.

Quoted from dogglebe Hand guns are the last resort measure (unless airport police in Canada don't carry them).  Tasers are designed to be non-lethal.  If one killed somebody, you can't blame the cop who used it. Maybe I missed something, but wasn't this guy holding a chair up?  Not exactly the sign of a calm person. Phil

Sorry, by last measure I meant last measure before the use of deadly force (if needed). Therefore Taser, and then handgun.

Yeah, he was holding up a chair at one point, but that was before the police arrived. Ofcourse, the police had no intention of killing him - that's what a Taser is for. The biggest gripe for me is that there were 4 police officers and a non-English and agitated/scared man holding a stapler. Why on earth could they not talk to him longer than 30 seconds or atleast force him to the ground. 4 police officers against 1 man??

Finally, why did they taser him TWICE? Why on earth did they taser him when he was lying on the floor screaming in agony and sheer terror?

Anywho, it's a grand shame. Don't for the least think I am anti police or RCMP. We have close family friends who are RCMP officers and they a great job in our community. I just want the use of Tasers reviewed and clarity over proper procedures of when and how they are used.

Stew

Quoted from MacDuff Yeah, he was holding up a chair at one point, but that was before the police arrived. Ofcourse, the police had no intention of killing him - that's what a Taser is for. The biggest gripe for me is that there were 4 police officers and a non-English and agitated/scared man holding a stapler. Why on earth could they not talk to him longer than 30 seconds or atleast force him to the ground. 4 police officers against 1 man??

Why couldn't they talk to him longer than thirty seconds?  I dunno.  Maybe it's because they know they don't speak Polish!

In regards to tazing him twice, and piling up on him, cops are trained not to take unnecessary chances.  They had no idea what this guy could do.


Phil

I put my finger in a light socket once, that was enough to put me down, I'm sure a 50000 volt shock would have done it.

Ooops. I deleted my last post instead of editing it.

Basically, I just had to add that I was surprised that the airline or YVR employees did not attempt to communicate with the man more clearly before the situation got out of hand, but then again I wasn't there and I don't know what happened before hand.

Also, I've just read a very interesting neutral article by a police officer and he said that the man was clearly an example of someone who should be Tasered. So there are definitely different opinions on the subject.

Quoted from dogglebe The police did exactly what they were supposed to do.  They detained an agitated passenger.  It's not their fault the airport couldn't find a polish translater.  They used a taser on him and not a handgun.  It was not their intention to kill him. Phil

But from what I understood, they did have a translater. His mother. They knew she was looking for him, and told her to go home.

Something that is odd is that this is all focusing on the police.

What about airport security that detained him? Why did they detain him?
Who was the person who made that call to do so?

Where is the person or people who knew that the mother was looking for him, and did nothing other than tell her to go home?  

Why was there no communication between the people who spoke to the mother and the airport security?

If this wasn't investigated, why not?
Especially since the mother knew where she told her son to wait.

I'm beginning to believe that the people at the airport are completely to blame, and should be held accountable.

The police probably got a call that said something like we have a man in an area that he is not supposed to be in, and he's acting crazy.
  
Cindy

Quoted from CindyLKeller The police probably got a call that said something like we have a man in an area that he is not supposed to be in, and he's acting crazy.

This is a common situation.

Recently, in NYC, a woman called the police because her mentally ill son was acting hostile.  While she was on the phone, he was heard screaming, "I got a gun!  I got a gun!"

When the police showed up at the house, the son climbed out the window with something in his hand.  Again he shouted, "I got a gun!  I got a gun!"  The police told him to drop it and stop.  He didn't and they shot him.

It turned out he had a hairbrush in his hand.

Now, all the cop-bashers want the cops arrested, charged, tried and convicted of murder (actually, they just want the cops convicted), saying they they killed a harmless teen.

It's great to Monday morning quarterback, isn't it?



Phil

Quoted from CindyLKeller But from what I understood, they did have a translater. His mother. They knew she was looking for him, and told her to go home.

That just about defines incompetence. I think people bring up some good points (facts). YVR is probably more responsible for this than anyone else. It's still fucked that this guy was killed with a supposedly "non-lethal" weapon though.

Why are we blaming the police or the airport?  Sure, either or both may have acted stupidly (I personally think the police acted well, but either way), but the worst thing that would have happened if tasers were actually non-lethal is that someone would have been unnecessarily tasered.  Not so big a deal.

I'm absolutely certain that the police wouldn't have tasered the man if they thought that there was even a tiny chance that it would actually kill him.  If we have to place blame for the guy's actual death, I would think that it would have to go to everyone who is involved with supplying the police with "non-lethal" weapons which are apparently lethal.

I mean, that's scary, man!  I have a friend who went to a four day police camp where they tasered her just to show her what it felt like.

Quoted from Heretic If we have to place blame for the guy's actual death, I would think that it would have to go to everyone who is involved with supplying the police with "non-lethal" weapons which are apparently lethal.

I haven't ruled out the fact that the police could've been armed with defective equipment but I think it's far more likely that the police used their tazors in excess. Police with defective equipment would be a lot more serious considering this could happen (and would probably be happening) to more people. I'm of the opinion people are more concerned about that than the possibility a tazor might kill someone. I mean, they are supposed to be non-lethal. I don't think the police intended to kill this guy but assuming the tazor wasn't defective, I think they probably used more force than neccesary (and likely even more than specified by textbook procedures).

In our local news... two people were killed by tasers in seperate instances in Michigan in the last four days.

I also read about a man who was tasered by a security guard while holding his newborn child when he and his wife tried to leave the hospital because they didn't like how they were treated there. Of course the baby fell on its head.

Another instance... a cop uses a taser on a man who is in handcuffs and in the back seat of his patrol car.

AND the tasers are tested on bulls, and pigs... I watched the video.

They know that using a taser amplifies the stress, anxiety, and heart conditions that could be going on inside the person.

I guess the police like being sued because there are a lot of cases out there against them, and they continue to use the tasers.






  

Another taser death here in B.C, 15 min from my home,  this time it was a very very bad man, still, I think we got defective tasers here.

Just watched that video.
One of the most disturbing things I ever saw.

Quoted from The boy who could fly Another taser death here in B.C, 15 min from my home,  this time it was a very very bad man, still, I think we got defective tasers here.

This is a great example of what is wrong with this thread....

You told us that cops killed another man.  Not much detail there (except that he was a bad bad man).  These partial stories effect people's opinions of the police.


Phil

An autopsy tentatively scheduled for Monday will likely determine whether a Chilliwack man, who died in police custody, died as the result of being shot with a Taser - which would make it the second high-profile death associated with the weapon in the Lower Mainland in just over a month.

RCMP Assistant Commissioner Peter German confirmed the death of Robert Thurston Knipstrom, 36, in Surrey Memorial Hospital shortly after midnight Saturday.

Knipstrom was apprehended by police last Monday after a violent altercation in Chilliwack's Eze Rent-It Centre. He fought hand-to-hand with the two attending officers before being pepper-sprayed, hit with a baton and Tasered.

"I wish to express our sincere condolences to the family for the loss of Mr. Knipstrom," German told a news conference Saturday. "Every death is tragic and this is no exception.

"An independent officer review, which is standard procedure in any RCMP in-custody death, has been ordered in this case."

Via the RCMP, the dead man's father, Bob Knipstrom, later issued a statement.

"The family is shocked and saddened by the recent incident between our son and the Chilliwack RCMP," Bob Knipstrom said. "We apologize on behalf of our son to the staff of the [rental store] for any distress that was caused because of this incident."

Russ Walsh, owner of Eze Rent-It Centre since 1986, witnessed the incident and seemed surprised by the family's apology.

"I was in the shop when it happened," an emotional Walsh said from his Rosedale home. "I can't comment on the events that happened, but I believe our whole staff was shaken by what transpired.

"It's tragic and my heart goes out to the family. I've been in rentals for 34 years and you never expect something like this to happen. We're just a small business in the Valley."

RCMP Insp. Brendan Fitzpatrick of the Major Crime section, said it's unclear what role the Taser played in Knipstrom's death.

"The Taser was deployed and at this juncture in the investigation we have no information to tell us whether it made contact or was effective."

Police said Knipstrom was known to them and that they had violent confrontations with him in the past.

Also this guy I work with, his sister in law had an altercation with this guy a few years ago, she saw him shoplifting at the store she works at and she asked him to put the products back on the shelf, he did, then as he walked past her he punched her in the face.  I don't think the world is gonna be at a loss with out him.

Quoted from dogglebe This is a common situation. Recently, in NYC, a woman called the police because her mentally ill son was acting hostile.  While she was on the phone, he was heard screaming, "I got a gun!  I got a gun!" When the police showed up at the house, the son climbed out the window with something in his hand.  Again he shouted, "I got a gun!  I got a gun!"  The police told him to drop it and stop.  He didn't and they shot him. It turned out he had a hairbrush in his hand. Now, all the cop-bashers want the cops arrested, charged, tried and convicted of murder (actually, they just want the cops convicted), saying they they killed a harmless teen. It's great to Monday morning quarterback, isn't it? Phil

They shot a guy armed with a hairbrush.  If they're that incompetent, they certainly don't desreve their jobs.

Quoted from seamus They shot a guy armed with a hairbrush.  If they're that incompetent, they certainly don't desreve their jobs.

Wow, Seamus, you replied to what I said a whole week after I posted it.  That's two whole weeks after the shooting occurred.  You know, I bet the cops involved wished they had to whole weeks to examine a situation like you did.  I bet they also wish they could've evaluated the situation from the safety of their computer.

Unfortunately, they had only a few seconds to decide their actions while a lunatic screaming, "I got a gun!  I got a gun!" is approaching them.

Not quite the same, is it?



Phil

I'm sorry Phil, I don't spend every waking moment waiting for another brilliant pronouncement from the Oracle of SS.  I just got around to reading the thread and responded to it.

First let me say, I don't believe that these officers should be charged with murder, but clearly they shouldn't be allowed back on the streets.

Your rationale that their job is dangerous and scar, therefore it's ok for them to shoot unarmed citizens is ridiculous.  If the job is too dangerous and scary for them to do it properly (i.e. not shotting unarmed citizens) then they should learn to type.  

I believe they thought there lives were in danger.  I don';t think they just guned this guy down for the fun of it.  But their lives weren't in danger.  And part of their job is to make certain they are in danger before they open fire.

And perhaps if the "pro cop" crowd were morre willing to hold cops responsible when they perform poorly, the "anti-cop" crowd would be less apt to call for charges when situations like this arise.