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In a different thread it was mentioned that Stephen King, while a great creative writer, is NOT a good script writer. Well, let's go with a flip-flop of that and ask this question:
How many script writers are just that: Technically good script writers, but not incredible creative geniuses, and does it happen often where a person makes it in the business of 'script writing', without being the creative force behind the scripts they write?
If so, how can one make it without being the next Stephen King of screen writing?
The people who control Hollywood have no creative juice... That's why they fuck everything up. They feel they do, but they don't. That is why they often spend lavish amounts of money on one project and see little return. Hollywood is a complete waste of time... For anyone wanting to get to "Hollywood" as a writer, please... Stop your journey to be a writer right now. Find a new outlet or dream... Become a video game designer. Do something else.
Hollywood isn't for writers... It's for actors. It's for producers and directors. As a writer you don't get the spot light. You don't get the talk show appearance to talk about your work. They do. The above. You are just the guy with the blue print who put the words in their mouth. Sadly, you're not the guy who writes what they say when they go on them talk shows too.
Real writers don't make it in Hollywood... Producers, Directors and Actors do. Subsequently they also have a shit ton of worthless scripts sitting around too. Wait your turn but do it from your own zipcode... Trust me.
To reiterate what I said about King... I've written a lot of things in my time. I've written for video game websites... I've written scripts for a weekly you tube show... I've written over 120 screenplays, features and shorts. I'm an active political blogger, unbeknown st to many, as we speak... I've used several names doing so. I've been here and there and everywhere. Hell, I've even written a 30 min stand up bit < Hardest thing a writer can probably do. Trust me... Great excersie.... The one thing I've never done or even attempted to do is write a novel. I know I couldn't do it. I can't even keep a daily journal. There is no way I could do that footwork and for that Steven King is a better "writer" than I am. He isn't a better screenwriter and I don't think he has the ideas that I've got, either. He's where he is because of infancy and timing. He's good... Great, even. He's probably the best there is in certain circles, but I believe I have better ideas and I believe I execute them better than he does in screenplay form. Could I write a novel with his attention to detail and his incredible sense of wisdom? Hell no. I couldn't lace his left boot even if he wore velcro... But I do believe I could go ink tip to ink tip with him on general ideas.
There are many types of script writing - all of which can be produced and enjoyed. There are some people that are very good at writing theatrical plays. There are some people that are very good at writing television shows. There are people that are very good at writing short subjects. There are people that are good at writing features. They are all valid pursuits, you can get acclaim from any one of them - and with the exception of short subjects and theatrical plays - you could probably eke out a living with them. You don't even have to be a great writer to do so.
What you do need to do is learn the craft of telling a story. Learn how to entertain people with your writing - learn how to make what you've written clear - find your voice (that's probably the most important). Learn how to get people to read what you've done and how to get them to watch your stuff that's been produced.
Send out as many scripts as you can. There are jobs out there but because you don't have to really be great to do it, there's a large pool of people that can be drawn from. It's a bit of a numbers game so you make sure you are in as many pools as possible and be ready to go when and if you get your chance.
make sure you are in as many pools as possible and be ready to go when and if you get your chance.
About the best advice there is in this instance... If you're not ready when they come calling, kiss it g'bye. Just because you have 1 script doesn't mean anything. Anyone and everyone has a script in California. It's your vault of material that matters most. It's the ideas you have and what "ELSE" you can bring to the table... You're money for them until you start costing them.
So write and write and write and write and write and write... It doesn't matter if your next script is as good as your last script or if your 2nd script is better than all your scripts combined. It's the fact you've actually got some material under your belt. That's what matters.
In a different thread it was mentioned that Stephen King, while a great creative writer, is NOT a good script writer. Well, let's go with a flip-flop of that and ask this question:
How many script writers are just that: Technically good script writers, but not incredible creative geniuses, and does it happen often where a person makes it in the business of 'script writing', without being the creative force behind the scripts they write?
If so, how can one make it without being the next Stephen King of screen writing?
Hollywood is a huge marketing scheme designed to convince you to pay for something that has no intrinsic value. That's all it is.
All the major studioes are run by accountants and lawyers, with the exception of Dreamworks (to a degree). Most of them are owned by huge multinational corporations like Sony and Fox.
A film comes out, there are interviews and adverts in the papers (owned by Fox), on TV channels (owned by Fox), they download content to phones (some film companies are owned by telecommunications systems) etc etc A film creates content for a whole range of things. They even drive the sales of electronics (DVD players, hence Sonys involvement).
Their business is about making more money from their overall investment than they could from investing it in banks. That's it.
That's the most crucial factor, because without money, they are dead in the water. All other concerns are secondary.
So, in short, write films that will make them money and you are surely giving yourself a chance.
How good it is can be secondary to how marketable it is. Good is subjective. Cash pouring in is quantifiable.
So you can make it by writing generic, marketable stories.
Number 1 is comedy.
Comedy in any given year accounts for 90-95% of the Box Office. This figure only tends to drop in years when there are huge films of other genres (Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter).
Comedy is cheap, it is easy to make a trailer for and everyone wants to be entertained. Even very poor comedies are easy to market. Look at how many Scary Movies, Epic Movie, Disaster Movie type flicks there are. You watch them even though you know they are going to be crap.
Hollywood=MacDonalds.
All of those flashing lights and quick edits are the equivalent of the high sugar content in mass market food. They are designed to stimulate your senses and leave you wanting more. They want you to consume films like you consume food, constantly reaching for your next fix like a heroin addict.
Great films, like all great examples of Art, leave you fulfilled and satisfied. Your brain is alive with thoughts and ideas and you can think about the film for hours, days or weeks. Bad for business.
The other part of it is networking. If you are not part of the scene, you are not part of the scene. People give chances to those they know and like. That's the reality of all business. 95% of deals are made in bars, and in very particular bars. In London it is the Groucho Club, a members only bar frequented by the London filmmaking scene (who are all funded by the US studioes eg Working Title).
I went to LA to live for a few months, years ago now, whilst I was doing an acting course. One night we are in a bar and the choreographer from You Got Served was there. My friend DJ was a great dancer and loved the film and he knew who he was.
He wanted to go and speak to him but was too scared. (I think he's called Dave Scott btw). This South African guy who was a bit older than us, said he'd do it and went over to him and introduced himself, saying he was representing DJ and he'd be honoured if he could take a look at him. The choreographer made him do some dance moves right there and then in the club and on the basis of it, gave him his card and invited him to an audition for his next movie. He didn't get the part, but he got the shot.
The points to think about though are this:
1. Connections: We were in the VIP room of a major club. The only reason we were there is that DJ's best friend over there was a young guy called Ryan, whose father is a Billionaire and Ryan got invited to all the big celebrity do's on any given night. Even if you were in the same club, you wouldn't get access to him.
2. Information: DJ knew who he was, no-one else did. If you write horror scripts, do you know what the guy in charge of script procurement from Dimension films looks like ?
3. Bollocks: DJ didn't have the balls to approach him. Fortunately, someone else did. Either get the bollocks to approach the big names, or find someone who can do it for you.
4. Preparation: DJ could dance extremely well and was able to follow the guys moves straight away. He gave himself a shot. Do you have your pitch prepared for your latest film, just in case you bump into Mr Paramount at a party?
The further away from LA you get, the harder it is to break in and it's not just being in LA, it's being right in the centre of things, going where people go and moving in the right circles.
Personally, in this day and age, I think you have to make it, before you make it. Whether that's selling an independent film, or writing a blog (Juno), a novel, winning a competiton or whatever. You need to make a name for yourself in order for them to check you out. They only look at things that are already making a noise.
Stephen King became synonymous with a certain type of story, he was seen as the "King of Terror", or whatever. You have to find some way of making a brand for yourself.
In some ways, writing scripts is the hardest way of getting a film made. No-one outside of filmmakers or screenwriters reads them. That means they can't become popular amongst the general populace and so they can't take a life of their own, like even a blog, or a short story can.
All this is why I'm so branched out. I almost seem scattered, but I have a firm plan. I've found that I am the type of person who can write a screenplay AND a novel (not to mention music, which is yet another pursuit), so I do. I make my movies to show that I can. I'm in the middle of the country, so my battle is uphill and it honestly feels like it. However, imagine how much more willing someone would be to give me that "big break" when I can show a tangible list of credits, even though I basically created that list under my own steam. In fact, I might get a little more credit for going out there and "doing it" instead of waiting for someone else to do it for me.
As for Stephen King, if you read how mis novels play out, you'll get why he can't write screenplays. He takes way too long setting stuff up and he spends a lot of time on psychological stuff. If someone else adapts his stories, they turn out really good. If he does it...not so much.
Ok, so you’ve written the best screenplay ever. It’s so damn good, the word masterpiece doesn’t do it justice. It’s the Matrix, Nightmare on Elm Street meets Gone With The Wind.
It’s original, has blistering pace and the characters are so deep you could drown in them.
The audience are going to laugh, cry, do two backward somersaults and a twist and still leave ultimately satisfied.
So what? I mean it’s not like anyone is ever going to see it. If they do, you can guarantee your names not going to be on it.
Neo’s going to become Theo, Trinity – Virginity and Vivien Leigh is going to discover that tomorrow is just another fucking day.
The two guys under contract with the studio are the ones going to the premier and spending the next six months telling the world where the idea came to them. The only ones who ever really get in, are those with a pass and guess what? You don’t got one.
If you’re lucky, and I mean the sort of luck where you fall down a mine shaft and come up with a diamond stuck up your ass lucky - you might just get a Based On.
You’ve registered your script with the WGA, CIA, FBI and the Space Core - just in case. It won’t make any difference. Everyone will tell you that ideas are a dime a dozen and coincidence is the rule and not the exception.
PLEASE! Somebody tell me I’m wrong.
To say the least, it wasn't popular.
Why, because if you are serious about getting into the industry, it is really dauntng.
The whole industry is built around connections and if you haven't got them, you're going to have to be spectacular and have a whole vault of other material to bring to the table. Being as good as the Pro's, just isn't good enough. Can you be a screenwriter without having a great imagination? Sure! You just have to know the right people.
In the uk, it's probably worse. Here your movie has to carry a political message or meet a particular niche, for a newbie to get in. I'm not sure being a great screenwriter or having an original voice means as much as we all want to believe it does.
It's still possible to "make it" in Hollywood. You just need to know the ropes.
There isn't just Hollywood, as well. There are whole new methods of distribution out htere now, from Youtube, to Video on Demand, Apple TV etc. You can sell DVD's off your own website etc.
The Zombie Diaries cost $20,000 and has grossed over $1M so far. That's attainable for everyone here, especially if we worked together.
You wouldn't believe how much money Faster has made. It dwarfs the amount the likes of Speilberg get for a film and it's entirely self-distributed.
It's been around for years and undergone numerous editions.
It originally sold for £19. At the time it cost around £3 to complete a transaction (completion). Completion companies print the DVD's and deliver them.
So the maker gets £16 per sale. £16. You'd get about 10p if that was a Hollywood film, if you are lucky.
It has sold millions of copies, millions. You do the maths. It's six years old and is still selling (it's now about a fiver). They release a new edition quite often.
Everyone that bought it leaves their email address which means you have a direct contact to your point of sale, so you can advertise your next film.
And you own the rights, in perpetuity, forever.
That's the future of filmmaking.
Like Malcolm says, why break your back trying to sell to a bunch of people who will only fuck it up and then give you fuck all for it?
The UK film industry, some notable exceptions aside (like Film Four, Working Title etc) are a joke. A complete joke.
Take the regional film agency.
They've made 20 micro-budget features and 19 of them have made a loss. We're talking films made for between £100,000 grand and £250,000. All but one has made a loss.
Which means Diva, a film I made in a single weekend and sold for a mighty profit of a few thousand pounds, has made a bigger profit than all the films they have made put together. They've invested hundreds of millions of pounds into project managers, script editors, God knows what else. They make you jump through years and years of hoops on their ridiculous schemes and at the end of it all, they end up with films that no-one wants to see.
It's still possible to "make it" in Hollywood. You just need to know the ropes.
There isn't just Hollywood, as well. There are whole new methods of distribution out htere now, from Youtube, to Video on Demand, Apple TV etc. You can sell DVD's off your own website etc.
The Zombie Diaries cost $20,000 and has grossed over $1M so far. That's attainable for everyone here, especially if we worked together.
You wouldn't believe how much money Faster has made. It dwarfs the amount the likes of Speilberg get for a film and it's entirely self-distributed.
It's been around for years and undergone numerous editions.
It originally sold for £19. At the time it cost around £3 to complete a transaction (completion). Completion companies print the DVD's and deliver them.
So the maker gets £16 per sale. £16. You'd get about 10p if that was a Hollywood film, if you are lucky.
It has sold millions of copies, millions. You do the maths. It's six years old and is still selling (it's now about a fiver). They release a new edition quite often.
Everyone that bought it leaves their email address which means you have a direct contact to your point of sale, so you can advertise your next film.
And you own the rights, in perpetuity, forever.
That's the future of filmmaking.
Like Malcolm says, why break your back trying to sell to a bunch of people who will only fuck it up and then give you fuck all for it?
The UK film industry, some notable exceptions aside (like Film Four, Working Title etc) are a joke. A complete joke.
Take the regional film agency.
They've made 20 micro-budget features and 19 of them have made a loss. We're talking films made for between £100,000 grand and £250,000. All but one has made a loss.
Which means Diva, a film I made in a single weekend and sold for a mighty profit of a few thousand pounds, has made a bigger profit than all the films they have made put together. They've invested hundreds of millions of pounds into project managers, script editors, God knows what else. They make you jump through years and years of hoops on their ridiculous schemes and at the end of it all, they end up with films that no-one wants to see.
Waste of time.
I for one, am of an age where I wasn't born sucking a lap-top. I.E all this new media stuff, is still pretty much a mystery to me.
Dec, are there any good books, web sites, to get a better look of what's out there and what the alternatives are? It would be of great interest to me.
You're always so insightful Rick! The very reason I'm trying to make stuff myself, a reality show and a feature, is because I believe if you want something done, you got to do it yourself. I'm not the type to sit and wait for my ship (Hollywood) to come in, I rather swim out and get it. I just have to learn how to write a great script first.
Back to the original question. From what I understand, most Hollywood writers spend most of their time writing on assignment or re-writing other scripts. The average yearly salary is 125K which isn't much to live on in LA.
Not updated in a while, some have gone now, and others no doubt exist. Youtube is the Daddy of all of them. However you have to be some kind of "officially selected" person to share the advertising revenue. Something I need to look into myself.
They all do different things. You might even be able top make a decent income writing "How to" help topics for filmmakers.
Atom films is a decent one that can pay. Pia and I had a little pop at that with this film:
I got contacted by Nickelodeon/MTV about it, but never heard anything back, so I never got anything for it. It's just there for posterity now. I presume you must have to get a certain amount of views before it goes "pro" (that way they've already made their money before they do business with you). If you can get in the million of views though, you can make a decent living of it, theoretically.
The secret of all of this, of course, is Internet Marketing. I'm sure there are thousands of books on that. Somehow you've got to get people to notice you:
Google: viral marketing, blogging and things like that.
There are numerous Pay Per view, Video on Demand sites. |Again just Google them and do a bit of research.
http://www.dvxuser.com is a good site for resources about all kinds of things film related.
Peter Broderick is the "guru" of independent film distribution. His ethos is bascially do it all yourself (He's the one that told me about Faster) and keep the rights and then you can do "hybrid" deals with the majors, where they get specific territories, TV deals or whatever, but you keep what you want.
Blair Witch Project and Paranormal Actvity are two worthwhile case studies in how to market stuff with little money.
Again, I'm not sure if this stuff is really relevant to a pure writer, but the fields are obviously connected. If there is a market for films, there is obvioulsy a market for good scripts.
As far as "making it" is concerned, all I want is the satisfaction of one day seeing my work produced...
I want a career in writing - in any shape or form. Hell, it beats the pile of crap I'm looking through as a civilian as I type this...
Let someone else go on Jay Leno. This country is too much about idolatry anyway. We love to make our celluloid heroes into mega-icons (instead of the doctors, professors, fire fighters, etc. who do the real heavy lifting) and then, when we become jealous of them, we find their weak spot, and tear them apart with scandal...
Oh, and since we love to still think of ourselves as the underdog in the world, we love a good comeback story, so we give the idol a chance at redemption.
See Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, Tiger Woods - there's always one of these cycles playing out in the headlines at any given moment.
So Hollywood can keep its big ponzi scheme. My hope is to latch on to an indie prod that can partner with a bigger producer or a distribution company with some juice.
As far as "making it" is concerned, all I want is the satisfaction of one day seeing my work produced...
I want a career in writing - in any shape or form. Hell, it beats the pile of crap I'm looking through as a civilian as I type this...
Let someone else go on Jay Leno. This country is too much about idolatry anyway. We love to make our celluloid heroes into mega-icons (instead of the doctors, professors, fire fighters, etc. who do the real heavy lifting) and then, when we become jealous of them, we find their weak spot, and tear them apart with scandal...
Oh, and since we love to still think of ourselves as the underdog in the world, we love a good comeback story, so we give the idol a chance at redemption.
See Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, Tiger Woods - there's always one of these cycles playing out in the headlines at any given moment.
So Hollywood can keep its big ponzi scheme. My hope is to latch on to an indie prod that can partner with a bigger producer or a distribution company with some juice.
AJR
This. The indie scene isn't in the forefront as much as Hollywood is but in terms of sheer scale, its way bigger and there's still tons of flicks coming out of it with near Hollywood budgets. That's "making it" for me. Who needs $500 million dollars to make a movie? Avatar's gonna be more than hard pressed to make its budget back and in the end, there's gonna be hundreds of better movies out there that were made under $10 million.
In response to the thread question, I think you have to be a good writer to be a good screenwriter. A good writer writes good stories. A good screenwriter writes good stories under tight constraints. If you write a bad story under said constraints, are you really still a good screenwriter? I don't think someone should be credited for how well they follow the rules or how much money they make. It's bullshit.
As a writer you don't get the spot light. You don't get the talk show appearance to talk about your work. They do. The above.
And this is a bad thing, why? As a writer, if you're not an attention whore, there's no reason to see this as a bad thing. Hell, it's a GOOD thing. No paparazzis, no rabid fans chasing you...
Hell, a movie may flop horribly and its writer would already be paid and relaxing on a cruise by that time.
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The very reason I'm trying to make stuff myself, a reality show and a feature, is because I believe if you want something done, you got to do it yourself. I'm not the type to sit and wait for my ship (Hollywood) to come in, I rather swim out and get it. I just have to learn how to write a great script first. 
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