First let me say that I searched the boards and everything that mentions TS is rather old and a bit off my point - so I apologize in advance to the old-timers that may have had this conversation several times already...

So I joined a while back and did my four reviews, but I didn't post my script until last week because I wanted to incorporate the AWESOME feedback I got here at SS.

I'm reviewing my fifth one now, and with apologies to any of the five people that may swing by here as a guest and recognize my name, four of them were not very good at all.  One of the four, with maybe three more re-writes, has a chance at being a pretty decent horror flick.  The other three are irredeemable.

So my script has been assigned 14 times - and has been rejected 5 times (so that's 19 times total, actually) - with no reviews.

Listen, I know my logline sucks. It doesn't suck as bad as it used to, but it still kinda sucks.  Sue me, my film is low concept. It's character-driven.  I'm almost tempted to add to my log "oh, I forgot to mention - everyone's a zombie or a werewolf!"  I don't think anyone would appreciate the sarcasm though...

As for the four I reviewed - I don't like horror films. Sorry, I know SS caters to it and is kind of a breeding ground for it. I respect that you guys can write it so well. But the first script I had to review was horror - and I kept it.  I kind of enjoyed going through it actually and solving the plot problems.

Maybe it's the way I was raised.  I would NEVER refuse an assignment. If you make a commitment, you stick to it. Know why? Because the person on the other end doesn't know why you refused it. Could be a good reason, like you were called away on business; or it could be because you're a whiny little brat who doesn't like the logline or has difficulty with the first four pages.

But all the writer knows is that you refused to read the script. The writer now thinks the script is unworthy. And maybe it is. But you should give it a chance and finish what you agreed to finish, no?

So to any TS members who also read here (I would NEVER post this over there), I say to you stop being little sissy mary whiny snotnose spoiled you-know-whats and read what is assigned to you.

End of rant - we now return you to our regularly scheduled postings...

AJR

So no one has reviewed your script on TS so far? Wow, that surprises me. I mean, they only let you reject reviews so many times before the system starts getting grumpy on you. TS basically forces what we do on the honor system. One review for another.

Where TS breaks down is that there is a prize for good reviews which leads to cliques among the regulars and scripts from newbs on that site get torpedoed as opposed to getting any kind of worthwhile or useful reviews. Likewise, some people may well review your script, but they only do it for the credit, so while it was read, the review was worthless.

I haven't logged into TS in years.

George,

Yup, 5 refusals, and it's still been assigned 14 times, which means it was assigned 19 times in total. I still can't figure out how, from only four reviews I finished, I got 19 assignments in the first place. Weird.

AJR

Quoted from ajr First let me say that I searched the boards and everything that mentions TS is rather old and a bit off my point - so I apologize in advance to the old-timers that may have had this conversation several times already... So I joined a while back and did my four reviews, but I didn't post my script until last week because I wanted to incorporate the AWESOME feedback I got here at SS. I'm reviewing my fifth one now, and with apologies to any of the five people that may swing by here as a guest and recognize my name, four of them were not very good at all.  One of the four, with maybe three more re-writes, has a chance at being a pretty decent horror flick.  The other three are irredeemable. So my script has been assigned 14 times - and has been rejected 5 times (so that's 19 times total, actually) - with no reviews. Listen, I know my logline sucks. It doesn't suck as bad as it used to, but it still kinda sucks.  Sue me, my film is low concept. It's character-driven.  I'm almost tempted to add to my log "oh, I forgot to mention - everyone's a zombie or a werewolf!"  I don't think anyone would appreciate the sarcasm though... As for the four I reviewed - I don't like horror films. Sorry, I know SS caters to it and is kind of a breeding ground for it. I respect that you guys can write it so well. But the first script I had to review was horror - and I kept it.  I kind of enjoyed going through it actually and solving the plot problems. Maybe it's the way I was raised.  I would NEVER refuse an assignment. If you make a commitment, you stick to it. Know why? Because the person on the other end doesn't know why you refused it. Could be a good reason, like you were called away on business; or it could be because you're a whiny little brat who doesn't like the logline or has difficulty with the first four pages. But all the writer knows is that you refused to read the script. The writer now thinks the script is unworthy. And maybe it is. But you should give it a chance and finish what you agreed to finish, no? So to any TS members who also read here (I would NEVER post this over there), I say to you stop being little sissy mary whiny snotnose spoiled you-know-whats and read what is assigned to you. End of rant - we now return you to our regularly scheduled postings... AJR

I understand your feelings, but for me it's understandable that people will refuse assignments.

I can't be bothered with Zoetrope or Trigger street, because I haven't the time to spend hours and hours reviewing scripts that I have no interest in. Honestly, I wouldn't do it even if I was paid. I'd rather have no money and borrow something I like from the library.

Ultimately a low concept, character driven piece is not going to appeal to a lot of people, it's very niche stuff EVEN if it is superbly written. There are thousands upon thousands of drama's made each year and there are great films out there that can't get close to a distribution deal or a festival screening that are in that category.

So you've picked probably the least appealing genre and then you compound it by admitting your log line is crap. Not getting reads is a valuable lesson in itself. You've got to do better than that, it's just the reality of the situation.

It seems to be a common problem with a lot of writers that they can't write loglines. I'll be honest and say that worries me. If a writer who knows his story inside out can't convey the sense of it in a few lines, who can?

It sends a signal that the writer isn't fully in control of what they are doing and you instantly expect the script itself to be poor. Simply put: If you can't get three lines right, how can you get 90-120 pages right?

Not having  ago here, I'm just pointing out what I consider the harsh truth....

Rick.

Quoted from ajr As for the four I reviewed - I don't like horror films. Sorry, I know SS caters to it and is kind of a breeding ground for it.

I wouldn't say that SS caters to horror.  While those, here, seem to accept the genre than TS, there's a good mix of all genres.


Phil

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films It sends a signal that the writer isn't fully in control of what they are doing and you instantly expect the script itself to be poor. Simply put: If you can't get three lines right, how can you get 90-120 pages right?

Not to go too far off topic, but I am in vehement disagreement with this statement. I have a story that I can describe the core tale in one sentence, but the story is little more than a dramatic overlay to the overall premise. Hence, people usually read my script as a favor, but ended up loving it because of the premise it was built on that can't really be conveyed in a short logline.

It would be like someone asking how your train ride through Europe went and all you say is "I took a train ride through Europe to see many fascinating sights." Well, that's all very interesting, and I'm sure the facts about the locomotive are nice as well, but how the sights affected you are far more interesting and the reason you bought the ticket to begin with. but you can't describe those interesting points in a sentence or two.

So your assertion that an author who can't "sum it up" in a few words has no control over the story is met with a raspberry from this corner.

Quoted from George Willson Not to go too far off topic, but I am in vehement disagreement with this statement. I have a story that I can describe the core tale in one sentence, but the story is little more than a dramatic overlay to the overall premise. Hence, people usually read my script as a favor, but ended up loving it because of the premise it was built on that can't really be conveyed in a short logline. It would be like someone asking how your train ride through Europe went and all you say is "I took a train ride through Europe to see many fascinating sights." Well, that's all very interesting, and I'm sure the facts about the locomotive are nice as well, but how the sights affected you are far more interesting and the reason you bought the ticket to begin with. but you can't describe those interesting points in a sentence or two. So your assertion that an author who can't "sum it up" in a few words has no control over the story is met with a raspberry from this corner.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't think there is any story that can't be at least hinted at in an intriguing fashion in a short log-line.

One of the most complicated and philosophical films I've seen (and one of my all time favourites) was Coppolla's Youth without Youth.

"A love story wrapped in a mystery. Set in Europe before WWII, a timid professor is changed by a cataclysmic event and explores the mysteries of life".

Although the two lines don't give you the whole story, they convery a sense of intrigue, a sense of the story, the genre, the philosophical nature, the setting and even the main character.

We've even got the hook (we want to see the cataclysmic event).

That's just off IMDb as well, I'm not even sure if it is the official log-line, it might just be a reviewer who has stuck it up.

You should be able to convery a sense of what we are going to watch, no matter how complex the plot is. The complexity itself can be hinted at in the logline.

I see where you are coming from with the European trip example, but that's not a story, it's an event.

What the story is about, and the genre, should be conveyed in the log line:

EG Philosphical

A European vacation becomes a voyage of self-discovery for a group of friends when.....

Thriller:

Two adventure seeking American teenagers European vacation turns into a battle for survival when...

Supernatural

Separated from her tour group in rural Poland, an amateur photographer stumbles across a mysterious village where....

You get the point.

What's your story about anyway?

Here's the logline: When a boy in the eighteenth century is changed into a different race, he must learn to adapt to his new life or face the consequences of rebellion.

Looking at it now probably 4 years after writing it, I could also get technical and say:
When a rogue Fempiror transmutates a boy in the eighteenth century, he must learn to adapt to his new life or face the consequences of rebellion.

Thing is, I wasn't sure whether using the name of my race would work in a logline or not. This is the first story, so you don't know what one is, so it's a meaningless word, though it could also generate intrigue since you might want to know about this whole transmutation thing. The logline doesn't show the adventure side of the story, since the main character's journey is his adaptation, though. Such is my conundrum.

George,

I agree with you.  I think most great movies do not have great log lines.  What is the log line for Annie Hall? American Beauty? The Sting? Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?  And (500) Days of Summer, for that matter?

And decadence, I went a bit overboard in stating that my logline sucks.  I have one, and it describes what the script is "about" - but at its essence, it's a low-concept comedy that hopefully makes people laugh. It's also about alienation, and growth, and people coming together from different worlds.  Is it possible to convey that in a log?

To be fair, I'm only using my logline on TS - maybe I should expand it to a synopsis.

But I cringe when I hear someone say "tell me what your movie is about in one sentence".  Well, if I could do that, why would you need to go see it then?  You could just read about it in a pack of Bazooka Joe!

We've boiled our whole culture down to 30 second sound bytes, and it irritates the hell out of me.  When someone says to me "you've got one sentence to impress me", I think to myself "eff you, I have 90-120 pages to impress you - whether or not you want to invest in it is up to you."

Quoted from George Willson Here's the logline: When a boy in the eighteenth century is changed into a different race, he must learn to adapt to his new life or face the consequences of rebellion. Looking at it now probably 4 years after writing it, I could also get technical and say: When a rogue Fempiror transmutates a boy in the eighteenth century, he must learn to adapt to his new life or face the consequences of rebellion. Thing is, I wasn't sure whether using the name of my race would work in a logline or not. This is the first story, so you don't know what one is, so it's a meaningless word, though it could also generate intrigue since you might want to know about this whole transmutation thing. The logline doesn't show the adventure side of the story, since the main character's journey is his adaptation, though. Such is my conundrum.

Ah we're talking about your big baby here, the Fempiror Chronicles!

The log-line itself isn't bad, it's quite interesting. Before I knew what it was though, I thought it was a completely different story.

I envisaged a period drama where a guy somehow became black!

That's quite a good story actually, but it's not what we want to get.

I take it you are actively avoiding the use of the word vampire?

What I think you need to convey, is that he's changed into a different "race of being", or species, rather than just a different race. The automatic assumption is the one I made.

(The one you've posted just now by the way suggests it's the rogue Fempiror that faces the test, not the boy btw).

I think you are right in trying to shy away from the word Fempiror just yet. You could introduce them as something like:

"An ancient and mysterious supernatural race"

Or "An ancient and terrifying race of beings"

Or some other similar amalgamation. You could then add: "Known as the Fempiror" if you so desire.

"A terrifying encounter with an ancient and mysterious being leaves an eighteenth century boy's life changed forever. Unable to return home, he must learn to embrace his new Destiny, or face the consequences of rebellion."

Just an idea. Gets the idea of the race of beings in a bit more, which is a key part of the story and a top selling point. I stuck Destiny in there just to make it seem more Epic. Your story is very Epic, it needs a bit of building up.

I stayed away from describing what happened to him, just as an option for you, in case you don't want to have to give to much info. away. Figured it might spoil a key scene.

I have a vague feeling we should have a bit more ambience in there, like a reference to the Eighteenth century. " A time of upheaval and rebellion" or whatever (I'm not sure what aspect of the setting is the critical one to the story, if at all. To my shame, I've yet to read it. )

Quoted from ajr George, I agree with you.  I think most great movies do not have great log lines.  What is the log line for Annie Hall? American Beauty? The Sting? Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?  And (500) Days of Summer, for that matter? And decadence, I went a bit overboard in stating that my logline sucks.  I have one, and it describes what the script is "about" - but at its essence, it's a low-concept comedy that hopefully makes people laugh. It's also about alienation, and growth, and people coming together from different worlds.  Is it possible to convey that in a log? To be fair, I'm only using my logline on TS - maybe I should expand it to a synopsis. But I cringe when I hear someone say "tell me what your movie is about in one sentence".  Well, if I could do that, why would you need to go see it then?  You could just read about it in a pack of Bazooka Joe! We've boiled our whole culture down to 30 second sound bytes, and it irritates the hell out of me.  When someone says to me "you've got one sentence to impress me", I think to myself "eff you, I have 90-120 pages to impress you - whether or not you want to invest in it is up to you."

It's not about telling the whole story in a few words. It's more about conveying the type of film, even if it's off-beat.

I don't know what the log lines for the films you mention are, but the essence of all films is usually fairly simple.

Annie Hall: A romantic comedy about a neurotic, pessimistic  New York comedian and a ditsy singer.

You know what it is. You get the gist of it straight away. I know I'm not going to be watching big gun battles in the streets.

The Sting:

In 1930s Chicago, a young con man seeking revenge for his murdered partner teams up with a master of the big con to win a fortune from a criminal banker.


You know the type of film from the name alone, let alone the log-line.

Obviously all the quality of the film comes from the standard of the writing, but you're getting the essence of what you are about to watch/read.

Almost all stories can be summed up in one sentence.

A farm boy has to save the Universe from an Evil Empire. That's three movies worth.

A young orphan with magical powers must save the world from the evil Lord Voldemort. That's 7 or 8 novels worth.

A man terrified of water must protect a town from a giant shark.



When it comes to low concept stuff (which is a terrible name, sounds demeaning) you just need to get the vibe across that it is "quirky", unconventional, off the wall etc It's funny that you say you can't get it across, when it only took you two sentences to do it yourself.   Stick a bit of the story in and its more or less there.

Here's a great low concept story with similar themes:

As good as it gets.

"A single mother/waitress, a misanthropic author, and a gay artist form an unlikely friendship "

The title works because it has two meanings. It could mean this is great, it's as good as it's possible to get

Or the pessimistic meaning: You never get anything good, this is as good as things will ever be.

Just from the list of characters above we can imagine the kind of scenarios that are going to be happening.

What's in your film that is different from everything else? Get it out there for the world to see. If there isn;t anything different, you need to sort that out as well.

Decadence,

I hear you, and I can get my story across in one sentence, but there's a bit of a "so-what?" factor in all low-concept logs, including the ones you summarized above. True, we know what the story is about, but do you really want to fly to the theater after reading the "Annie Hall" one, assuming you didn't know it was a Woody Allen flick?

Here's mine:

A frustrated writer must reconcile his feelings for two women, his crazy friends, and his blue-collar neighborhood during a wild 48 hours in 1989 Queens, New York.

I like it, but I can see other people saying "So what?  Where's the zombies and vampires?  Where's the twist?"

I think the log from (500) Days of Summer (if I remember correctly from IMDB) was something like "A story about a girl who doesn't believe in true love - and the boy who falls in love with her."

Now I would go see that - but does it really leap off the page and drag you to the theater?  American Beauty and Eternal Sunshine are two of the other pictures that come to mind that are incredibly complex and wonderful films and would be done an injustice by a one-sentence summation.

AJR

Oh, and as an exclamation point to this thread, I just refreshed my trigger street page, and it's now up to 6 removals with no reads...

Quoted from ajr I hear you, and I can get my story across in one sentence, but there's a bit of a "so-what?" factor in all low-concept logs...

I hear you, too, but that is the game and you gotta learn to play it whether you like it or not.

Quoted from ajr A frustrated writer must reconcile his feelings for two women, his crazy friends, and his blue-collar neighborhood during a wild 48 hours in 1989 Queens, New York.

Quoted from better A frustrated writer must reconcile his feelings for two women in 1989 Queens.

Shorter.  Lost the blue-collar neighborhood (you already say Queens), and I lost the quirky friends (name me a film of any genre that does not have quirky friends).

Now you got space in this logline to punch it up.

Dig into that script and find out what is special there.

It ain't quirky friends.  Find that spark and plug it in.  You will know it when you find it.


[Edit:  Oh, and I do not care much for Triggerstreet.  I find that if you choose carefully when choosing scripts and selecting which authors to read, your time is much better spent here.  My opinion, anyway.]

I'm 50/50 on Triggerstreet. I hated having to read and review, which takes hours, only to get a review back that barely reaches the minimum word count required, not half as detailed as the ones you spent hours preparing for other writers.

Some reviews were great though, some guy even contacted me offering to do a 5-10 page coverage for my script on the condition he could use it as a sample to show around. Most of the scripts I reviewed, the authors posted a thank you on my page, so I can't complain about that.

I do admit to rejecting an assignment or two. One case was because I couldn't get past the way the guy wrote his action lines. I had never seen anything like this before and because it was an action script, it was impossible for me to get through.

In short, I'd pick this place over Triggerstreet any day of the week.

Brian

Quoted from ajr Decadence, I hear you, and I can get my story across in one sentence, but there's a bit of a "so-what?" factor in all low-concept logs, including the ones you summarized above. True, we know what the story is about, but do you really want to fly to the theater after reading the "Annie Hall" one, assuming you didn't know it was a Woody Allen flick? Here's mine: A frustrated writer must reconcile his feelings for two women, his crazy friends, and his blue-collar neighborhood during a wild 48 hours in 1989 Queens, New York. I like it, but I can see other people saying "So what?  Where's the zombies and vampires?  Where's the twist?" I think the log from (500) Days of Summer (if I remember correctly from IMDB) was something like "A story about a girl who doesn't believe in true love - and the boy who falls in love with her." Now I would go see that - but does it really leap off the page and drag you to the theater?  American Beauty and Eternal Sunshine are two of the other pictures that come to mind that are incredibly complex and wonderful films and would be done an injustice by a one-sentence summation. AJR

I know what you are saying, but if you already know that people aren't that interested in low concept, there's not much point in getting upset about it if you know what I mean.  

It's a tough sell, no doubt about it.

I didn't see any of the films you mentioned at the cinema, I don't personally go to the cinema to watch films like that. I'll catch them either at festivals or on the TV. I prefer the quirky things in my own home, just a better vibe for me. I like to watch serious spectacle at the cinema.

However, that being said,  you've got to sell your film more. If you don't excited by it you can't expect anyone else to give a damn can you?

You just need to make more of what you have (it might be the case in the script as well, I don't know).

You've got some good selling points:

Crazy friends: Why are they so crazy? Let us know more. Crazy as in party animals? Crazy as in they expose themselves in public and shit on the floor? Crazy people are always good. I bet you could make them funnier in your story as well. Mention it if it's unusual, not so much if it's just the standrad "zany" characters you tend to find in films.

Crazy is good, "crazy" not so good.

Wild 48 hours. There's almost a title there.... 48 straight, or something.

Crazy bastards, wild 48 hours, two women. It doesn't sound bad at all.  Sounds like one of my weekends.  

That blue collar neighbourhood hits my boring bone a bit, but we can live with that. I'd also find some way of re-phrasing the "reconcile" part. .

Actually, that's your key problem.

Frustrated writer, reconcile his feelings, you've got the kind of negative things up front which puts us off a bit.

Using almost the same words:

48 hours, 3 crazy friends, 2 women. A frustrated writer tries to comes to term with his past (over a booze-filled weekend) in 1989 Queens.

No, that's bollocks unfortunately. I was trying to get the audience on your side a bit. The idea is right I think, maybe not the implementation. It also might pervert the sense of the story a bit too much and tip it over into outlandish comedy field.

My feeling is that we need to know it's a comedy first and foremost (that was the first thing you mentioned to me) then let us know it has a soul.

I think the frustrated writer reconciling his feelings is getting killed out there, we've got to cheer him up a bit.

Holy crap, it's tougher writing the log than it was the script!

"Crazy bastards, wild 48 hours, two women. It doesn't sound bad at all.  Sounds like one of my weekends."

Decadence, I think you would like it.  Interestingly, it's just a short distance away over in the comedy section... (o:

Bert,

Thank you sir - much food for thought.  You are a harsh taskmaster, but a good one. (o:

You say more with less words than most anyone I've met, while I on the other hand take 500 words to say hello...

I think I'll solve the problem at TS by going to my synopsis instead of the log, and I'll look at re-working the log in the interim. It's funny because I've gotten a decent amount of requests with my query, but again, that could be because I've included the synopsis.

AJR

Haven't looked into Trigger Street, although I will pipe in and say that I appreciate the thoughtful discussion on writing effective log lines...

All,

So the update is 13 removals and 2 reviews - including a lukewarm one from a neophyte film student written with little regard for punctuation and sentence structure (oh, and the other's a pretty glowing one - WITH proper punctuation!).

My favorite line from the review: "the comedy is very little..."

Ugh, that's like a dagger to the heart, no punctuation guy!  Unless he/she means that the comedy is short in stature, in which case I didn't intend for the comedy to manifest itself on screen in the guise of a dwarf (apologies to Fellini), so we're okay...      (o:

AJR

18 removals, 3 reviews - 2 lukewarm and one glowing - the lukewarm ones are short though and kind of off-point, and I'm finally ranked...

1,456 out of 3,681

Damn - 1,455 other people have to get their movie made before it's my turn...

(0:

Quoted from ajr 1,456 out of 3,681 Damn - 1,455 other people have to get their movie made before it's my turn... (0:

Im not familiar with this site so how they calculate this? whats the criteria? And what a bad idea!

Dimitri,

Not sure really -

You get to rank the script, after you review it, in 6 categories (the 5 below plus an "Overall"):

Concept
Story
Structure
Character
Dialogue

You can choose either poor, below average, average, good, or excellent, for each of the 6 categories.

I imagine most if not all scripts do not receive an excellent or a poor, so most hover in the below average-average-good range...

How do they determine over 3,000 rankings from such tightly packed scripts? Good question. For instance, the no punctuation guy who reviewed mine has both his scripts "currently being evaluated by the Hall of Justice", which means someone reported them for violation of the TS rules.

Does this mean his review should count less in the rankings?  It should, but I don't know if it does.

Quoted from ajr D For instance, the no punctuation guy who reviewed mine has both his scripts "currently being evaluated by the Hall of Justice", which means someone reported them for violation of the TS rules.

What? The hall of justice? Its like playing an online RPG....  
I will definitely take a look...  

The HOJ is basically a self-policing mechanism for which TS members volunteer. For example, you could request from the "docket" a review - and then you have to decide whether the person violated the rules. In other words, did they pad the review just to reach 100 words, did they use filler and not comment directly on the script, did they copy from another review, etc.

For a film, I can't imagine something going to the HOJ for other than outright porn. I guess the dude in question wrote a sex scene or scenes that some deemed too graphic?

And I'm real iffy on my experience there so far, Dimitri, so I wouldn't trip over anything to go and check it out.

3 reviews, 25 people currently assigned - 21 refusals...

And they've worn me down - I've started to play the game and I'm now rejecting scripts as well. And believe me, from reading some of these first pages, they're worth rejecting.

AJR

Okay, now I just got called a "drama" instead of a comedy. And no narrative structure? Please...

I need you guys to talk me in off the ledge and tell me that the real writers hang out here, and that all the film students churning out formulaic crap which has kept me from actually paying to see a movie in person since "Miracle" (Kurt Russell) hang out over there...

AJR

I was bored today so I thought I would give TS another try, maybe build up some credits for a future screenplay or a future draft of my horror. It's not going well so far.

I've requested 2 assignments, rejected one already. I actually started reading the one I rejected and had one and a half pages of notes before I reached page 3. A typo on the title page for "Copyrighted" wasn't the best start. Then the very first word on page one. Then the small factor of the author not using a full stop at the end of a sentence. I could go on but I'm depressed thinking about it. I checked the ranking after I rejected it, it is ranked higher than Grand Avenue, which is a travesty in my mind.  Formatting errors aside, I'm not saying the script is rubbish. Maybe there is a good story there, but based on the early pages, I can't believe the place in the rankings this has.

It only confirms that if you are a regular over there, your script will be treated well. If you're new, prepare for some harsh criticism.

Brian

Hey Brian,

Yeah, I've got two assignments sitting in my bin now, and I'm wondering if I should just bail on them and let whoever already has GA either review it or reject it (I have zero credits left and it's still assigned 23 times), or if I should dive in full force and try to get the ranking up.

Thank God they're comedies. One is about Santa's elves, and I can only hope it shows as much promise as Gary's "Prince of Coal"...

Hey, do free will reviews count in the rankings?  (o:

Quoted from ajr I need you guys to talk me in off the ledge and tell me that the real writers hang out here...

I am fairly certain you have exactly the same kind of folks over there that you have over here -- it is simply a matter of which system they prefer.

I suspect many at TS have tried these boards -- and that a great many at SS have tried TS.

For me, I hated being assigned what to read instead of selecting my own -- and when I was there, after 3 "passes", you could not pass any more.  My first assignment was a rom-com, where the logline -- I am not kidding -- was, "If you hate rom-coms, you will hate this."  And I was, like, "I have to read this?  Oh, boy."

I found nothing there to suggest that the average quality was better than the average quality here.  I just did not like their system.

Truth is, however, under their system or ours, it does take a little time, effort, and reading to "establish" your brand if you want readers -- though I think if you gain a rep for quality feedback, it has more meaning here in terms of getting reads, as people will seek you out.

Difference is that here, you get readers who want to look at your stuff.  There, you get readers who are forced to look at your stuff.

So, two schools of thought, with pros and cons to both.

I prefer Don's system, but that is just me.

Hey Bert,

I was actually thinking the same thing earlier today - which is that over at TS it seems that people are much more "rigid", for lack of a better word, as if they're doing a book report - which in some sense they are since there's a test afterwards.

Whereas here, you can be as brief or as expansive as you want. You can also get really technical and drill in on formatting and narratives, or you can give your general impression of something as someone who wants to be entertained by the piece.

I think that's the main difference - that at TS no one really "enjoys" the assignment, because as you said, it's forced.  I can imagine what sort of level of hell it is being a reader for these contest sites now.  And Script Savvy? OMG, they have to read 150 scripts a month. That's 1,800 a year.  I would pray for grim death.

Still, you can call my script a lot of things... but a drama?

How many dramas do you know that dissect the derivation of the word "douchebag" and ponder its merits as an insult?   (o:

Okay, so I've decided to stop serving three masters (I'm going to exclusively concentrate on SS and a bit more now on Circalit), and I'm not going to review any more scripts on Triggerstreet - I have 16 people currently assigned to my script and if they pass, they pass...

I'm hanging steady at about 1,580 out of approximately 3,700 scripts...

Here's my closing statement on TS. Someone posted a 3rd version of their script and made the top 10.  They got feedback, pulled the script to incorporate the comments, and posted a 4th version - which now sits at 2,392.

AJR

Forget about Trigger Street, Zoetrope, Scripted, ect . The most probable reasons they passed on your script without reading it is formatting, punctuation, or spelling. The membership in both groups has remained relatively constant which indicates they have settled into a defined peer group. Any script which may pose a threat to the established hierarchy is panned without a thought. I heard they even called scripts and writers into what they call "The halls of justice". Those sites are a waste of time an energy and have in many cases devolved into a an illusion that simply feeds the lofty egos of the marginally talented within their core group. True talent will eventually rear it's beautiful head. So keep writing and *^!# the rest.  

godonthewire,

I agree with everything you said - except that, at the risk of sounding immodest, I write remarkably cleanly. To the best of my knowledge I don't have a single spelling or punctuation error...

What probably turned them off is length - it's 113 pages, a bit lengthy for a comedy, but necessary I believe since there are quite a few characters and an element of drama attached to it as well.

That, and the fact that, as you said, it's very cliquey over there...

I'm sorry things aren't working out for you on Trigger Street. I don't like any of those sites to be honest. In the early days of Zoetrope I used to converse online with Francis Ford Coppolla a bit, if you can believe that. He got chased off his own site by people abusing him. Incredible.

I can, however, see why some people assume it's a drama. I had a quick scan of it recently and the first three pages struck me as a serious noir/crime drama. You've got the worn out streets, the drugs and the deep, nihilistic voice over.

The opening tone really sticks with you.

I didn't review the script because it's not something I can really offer any advice on. Off-beat comedy is a genre that is so subjective that it makes my opinion almost irrelevant anyway.

Personally I found the script almost impenetrable...I couldn't get a grasp on what was going on. I noticed that a lot of the British guys really got it, so it must just be me, but I found it was such an intense slice of americana, that it was incomprehensible to me.

The only thing I can say is that i think a thing like this is your third film. I think you'd really need a firm reputation to get it moving. If I was to give you advice I'd say pick something more accessible for your next script, so you can introduce people to your preferred style more gradually.

Those are just my thoughts, for good or ill.

All the best,

Rick.

Hey Rick,

I do agree with you in a way - almost like Charlie said to Rick Springfield on "Californication", that this is my "passion project".

Which is why I hope to get a few shorts on film first. And I may have a lead on writing something else that's much more mainstream.

Thanks for the thoughts - AJR

Quoted from Brian M I'm 50/50 on Triggerstreet. I hated having to read and review, which takes hours, only to get a review back that barely reaches the minimum word count required, not half as detailed as the ones you spent hours preparing for other writers. Some reviews were great though, some guy even contacted me offering to do a 5-10 page coverage for my script on the condition he could use it as a sample to show around. Most of the scripts I reviewed, the authors posted a thank you on my page, so I can't complain about that. I do admit to rejecting an assignment or two. One case was because I couldn't get past the way the guy wrote his action lines. I had never seen anything like this before and because it was an action script, it was impossible for me to get through. In short, I'd pick this place over Triggerstreet any day of the week. Brian

I have genuine reasons for hating TS though I have pacified myself
and I am still active there.

I have to admit that I wrote the minimum 100 words review there , because I was assigned sci-horror scripts  and as I am not comfortable with this genre  I could not write much.

Another reason is a person shouted hoarsely that we should see the personalities and review . I don't know any personality .
padma

Okay, final tally on this was 7 reviews and 44 rejections.

To be fair, I probably should have done more reviews myself. Then again, if you look at the fact that newbies have to pay it forward at a 4-1 ratio, it would seem that each script should get more reviews than the author gives.

At the end I started to just flat out reject everything that was sent to me, just to see what would be sent to me next. There's a fair amount of slop over there, some of which is getting decent reviews.

I guess it's a clique like everything else in this business and I just didn't get in the door.

AJR

I had to open this thread on a count of the fact I didn't know what the hell Trigger Street was.  

So I read here to discover it's a place where word count and review count seems king?

Wella, if that's the case, I think if we wanted to, we could all win a Bullshit Award over there if we wanted to for all the numbers and values we can churn out despite any quotas.

Fact is, here, we need to place the quotas on ourselves and determine how much, how often and for whom we're reading. As others in this thread have stated, it's a matter of preference. Some people need to feel "ordered", other people like to make a direct order upon themselves. (The ultimate control freaks. Ones who control themselves.)  

Personally, I like to be able to study and work in a variety of ways, with different people and in different mediums. Simplyscripts offers loads of work, but also choice in the forms that work will take.

Sandra