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[bert's edit: Post #9 was actually the first post on this thread. Knucklehead Jonny deleted it by accident, then had to put it back later]
Hey Jon,
Did you get grilled on the OWC or something?
Check this out:
Randy Johnson, arguably the most dominating pitcher of the past two decades(300 wins, 4800 strikeouts, 3.3 ERA, a million CY Young's and a WS MVP), didn't get really good until he was 30. Up until then he was just okay. Had some good stuff, could strikeout people, but he was just a very average pitcher with above average strikeout numbers. And then after he turned 30 he became unhittable.
Some people just pick up things quicker than others. Conveying stories through screenwriting comes naturally to some people. To others, it takes time to develop. Hollywood is a tough town to make it comfortably in and, dude, seriously, you have a lot of time to make up ground. Write things out of your comfort zone. Try new methods. You'd be surprised what kind of things you can do if you just try. Destined to be mediocre? Ehhh. I think if you stick with it then you're bound to come up with something awesome sooner or later. Actually, I believe you wrote a pretty solid 7WC script, so what's the deal here? Solid is pretty good, man, so you can always build on that.
If you like it, do it. If other people don't like it, either give them the finger or try it a different way
No, I didn't get grilled. My script was...solid! Annoyingly, I am doing the rather arrogant thing of thinking it's better than the reviews it's getting, but there you go. I know that that isn't a very good attitude.
I don't want to make this just about me. I know I've got plenty of time to work out if this is what I actually want to do with my life (although I graduate next year, so I'd better make a decision about my next move sooner or later!). And despite the tone of my opening post, I'm not exactly lying awake at night about this; if I don't become a screenwriter, I don't become a screenwriter. I actually want to get other people's experiences on this. Don't some of you ever worry that the pros have some inate ability that can't be recreated, that's just handed out at birth?
Or, is hard work enough? Is determination, a refusal to accept 'no' as an answer, and the capacity to take onboard criticism and endlessly re-write the key? Maybe the 'mediocrity ceiling' doesn't exist at all?
EDIT: I went looking for a post by Ron Aberdeen that stuck with me once I read it, and I eventually found it.
You have hit a sore nail directly on the head, one that I believe in strongly, talent cannot be taught.
Sure ‘How To’ books help you learn the basics, the fundamentals of structure, formatting, presentation even story pace with Snyder’s ‘Beat Sheet’ and other guide lines from other authors but where do any of the books teach you how to be imaginative, where to find a writer’s voice that is instantly recognisable as yours, and how to make your screenplay entertaining in its delivery.
Even thinking up an original idea seems elusive to most writers, it is normally a rehash of concepts gone before.
The components that make a good screenplay appear obvious but in reality they are invisible to the uninitiated. Add to that the need for the script to be a commercial proposition that can attract millions of dollars to turn it from ramblings on paper to a project on screen worth hundreds of millions of dollars and you realise why so many writers fail.
You only have to watch the auditions on the X-Factor to see how far the majority of want-to-be famous performers are from the reality of the business and the requirements of the industry, but that doesn’t stop the thousands of hopefuls queuing up for the chance to show their lack of talent.
But here’s the thing, if you don’t understand the need for good structure probably in three acts, or the need for near perfect formatting and presentation you stand no chance at all.
That’s without understanding how to develop a characters arc, write memorable dialogue that is as breathtaking on the page as it will be on screen, ensure continuity of a screenplay with the impact of short concise descriptive paragraphs and deliver an exciting ride for the reader that is both enjoyable and entertaining.
All of that needs talent and that is not found in any book.
I am doing the rather arrogant thing of thinking it's better than the reviews it's getting, but there you go.
Bullshit. An arrogant writer?
If you are not defiantly arrogant -- convinced that your work is worth reading, no matter what the critics might say -- then you should consider doing something else.
You gotta be your own cheerleader. You think anybody is going to do that for you?
Can you imagine Phil starting a thread asking, "I wonder if I am any good..."
How about Balt?
If you are not convinced that you have it in you to be a good writer, then you won't be.
If you can't sell to yourself, you can't sell to anyone.
Suck it up, JonnyBoy. And get back to pounding that keyboard.
If I only wrote because I thought I could make it in Hollywood, I'd go insane. If I only wrote because I didn't think I was good at anything else, I'd shoot myself. If I only wrote because I thought it was the best way to pay the bills, I'd be homeless.
Truth is, if you're supremely talented, if you read all the screenplay books, format everything perfectly (which is impossible b/c something always contradicts something else), write the perfect screenplay, have the desire to sell your story and yourself relentlessly until you force your way into the front door... it's still a damn crapshoot.
So why do we do it?
For those moments of pure joy when we think of something brilliant, even if it's only brilliant to us. That "a-ha!" moment when a new plot point, a new scene, or a new character trait pops into our heads and makes our story ten times better than before. When the pieces start to fit, when the story starts to flow, when someone -- friend or fellow writer -- reads what we've written and says "That was really good!"
That's why I write. That's why I keep writing, until I'm good enough to "master the craft" as much as I can. Because, as maddening as it can be to write and re-write, to have your work critiqued and critisized, to hear someone expose major flaws in your story, the truth is... writing is fun. And we're all good at it, to some degree.
Bullshit. An arrogant writer? If you are not convinced that you have it in you to be a good writer, then you won't be.
If you can't sell to yourself, you can't sell to anyone.
Love you bert. It's very good to be positive/optimistic and so on, but at some point being realistic needs to be considered too.
I know what Greg was saying, but I'm more skeptical. I read a lot of scripts at SS and produced and hot newly sold ones. Is there a difference between the scripts at SS and some of these pro scripts? Most of the time there is. I just made a comment earlier today about the OWC scripts. I said some were written perfectly while they missed the mark in the story department and others had great ideas, but were not written well.
IMHO, most Hollywood scripts have a decent story and is well told. Still, there are sooooo many scripts written every year that I think for any of us to sell something is just wishful thinking. Btw, a lot of scripts that are sold never get produced anyway….
I'm not really sure what people want. Seems to me that a lot of people think/hope that they will become Hollywood writers. Their average salary is like $125K/year….that ain't much in Cali.
I have been asked by "producers" to rewrite shorts of mine for production. I always tell them no. Why? Because writers are always treated badly and asked to do slave labour for nothing. Unless I get paid, I won't do anything.
Am I weird? Sure, but I don't have this one wacky dream that I will be a Hollywood writer either. Nor would I want to be one. I write because i love to. If no one wants to read, fine. I have tons of other ideas to pursue.
Ironically, I have access to agents, but I have no good scripts to show…….
I know what Greg was saying, but I'm more skeptical. I read a lot of scripts at SS and produced and hot newly sold ones. Is there a difference between the scripts at SS and some of these pro scripts? Most of the time there is...
Wait, which part were you skeptical on? The sticking to it and developing or my fluffy optimism tonight?
There is no way to re-insert a post. We'll there might be but it's way too complicated and could easily cause the world to implode if done incorrectly so no one has tried it. Best if you just post it to the thread now and say it was the first post.
The first post, which was deleted due to excessive tiredness/carelessness/knucklehead-edness:
Quoted from Opening Post
Becoming a professional screenwriter is a devilishly tricky business; we all know that. It’s full of disappointments and frustrations. In fact, that could be said for any writer; I remember in an interview with the writer of Armored that I read recently, he advised people that if they could find anything else that could make them happy, they should do that instead, ‘cause writing isn’t very fun. In fact, often, writing sucks. We all know the feeling when you just can’t get the stuff on paper the way you want it to, when it feels as if your own thoughts are mocking you, refusing to let you grab a proper hold of them. And yet despite all this, despite the likelihood of continued setbacks and the very real possibility of ultimate failure, here we all are, trying to become screenwriters. We must all be here, ultimately, because we believe we have something to share with the world, some burning desire to tell stories that makes the suckiness worthwhile. Or, maybe we believe that we're talented enough to do this rather than a real job. That’s the only reason we can want to do this at all. Writing is 10% inspiration, 90% perspiration. To make it worth it, we have to believe that the 10% is good.
Thing is, what happens if you start to doubt if you’ve actually got anything to share? After all, not everyone can be exceptional. Just because we write doesn’t automatically mean we’re good. Just because we can critique a movie and dissect a script doesn’t mean we understand how to create one ourselves. Not everyone can be exceptional; some of us have to be mediocre. What if that’s all you can be? Or, to use the word I often read in reviews of my work, ‘solid’? Sure, maybe on a good day you could be a little better than mediocre, maybe occasionally a nice phrase or line of dialogue could slip out onto the page, but what if that’s it? Could it not be possible that there’s just a ceiling, a certain level beyond which you just can’t pass?
I’m not saying these are necessarily things I think about myself. I don’t know if I’m mediocre. I think it’s probably too early to tell. But here’s what I want to know: surely every writer feels like this occasionally? Does anyone else feel like this at times, or maybe all the time? Do you ever doubt that you’re a good writer, or that you have the capacity to be? It’s a very small, over-crowded industry, and not everyone who wants to be a screenwriter can be. Seems to me you have be either lucky or exceptional to make it; if you don’t have that ‘x’ factor, it won’t happen no matter how much you want it. How do you people with perhaps a dozen screenplays not worry that you might be barking up the wrong tree? The fact is that some people HAVE to be just mediocre. How do you know that you’re not one of them?
...but at some point being realistic needs to be considered too.
Well, yeah, sure. I think most here do not put all of their eggs in the screenwriting basket.
To really get somewhere takes a witch's brew of luck, persistence, and ghastly amounts of time pursuing tenuous leads that will likely never pan out. Talent is only part of the equation.
But I stand by the heart of what I said -- even if you are only here for fun -- you need to believe you have talent -- or at least the capacity to improve.
Not that you are, I've read your work. And I'm not talking about anyone in particular either...
Nothing wrong with mediocre to be honest. A lot of badly written scripts get made and make millions of dollars. So there is hope for all of us. But as a writer that "Mediocre," shouldn't even enter into the equation.
We have to believe we have what it takes, sure there will be stones in the road but once we cross them, they become our "MILESTONES." And if we don't then we might as well find something else to do because without luck we'll never reach the promise land.
When I first started on this endeavor, I didn't want to write 100 screenplays, 50 or even 10. Just four only and that's it. I might be setting myself up for a fall and I may never get there but you know what that's okay.
But I also know... you'll never get there unless you try?
I put in a lot of blood, sweat and tears... in the best possible sense being selfish, hundred of hours with myself alone ignoring the world, developing my ideas to let them sit and collect dust.
Indeed. The average person doesn't think they are. As for arrogance, I don't think it is okay to be arrogant. After all what is arrogance but an inflated view of one's importance? There's nothing noble about that. You want to impress people? Then impress them with your deeds not your attitude. However, I can understand why you're a little perplexed by some of the reviews. I skimmed through a few threads and they seemed to be a bit top heavy with negativity. The way I see it writers shouldn't be too precious about their scripts but on the other hand critics shouldn't be too precious about their reviews.
As for what to do with your life, I knew this woman once who studied full time for two years to get her diploma in professional writing and editing and then decided to quit. When I asked her why, she said it was because she wasn't very good at it. I was blown away by her honesty and self discipline, because I know how tough it is to give up something that you've invested a lot of time and effort in. But as the saying goes "no matter how far you've gone down the wrong path, turn back." Whether or not writing is for you is only a question you can answer. But it helps if you know what you're trying to get out of it. Once you know that then you can ask yourself if it’s realistic to have that expectation.
As for arrogance, I don't think it is okay to be arrogant. After all what is arrogance but an inflated view of ones importance?
Indeed. Nothing wrong with a healthy portion of self-confidence, it's when your insecurities get the best of you that arrogance comes into play.
As far as mediocracy goes, look at the mainstream movies released last year for example. How many rose above mediocre? I mean, you can almost hear those studio execs doing a bad Gordon Gekko impersination:
"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that mediocracy, for lack of a better word, is good. Mediocracy is right, mediocracy works. Mediocracy clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the unevolutionary spirit. Thank you very much."
Whether you're barking up the wrong tree, Johnny, depends entirely on what your goals are. I can't answer that for you. All I can say is: Believe in yourself - until it's time not to believe in yourself. Then you move on and go and do great things in other fields.
Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
J Wait, which part were you skeptical on? The sticking to it and developing or my fluffy optimism tonight?
Not really skeptical to what you said, but rather how this business works. If you play baseball and you keep getting better and better people will notice, because you will become an important player to the team and they will want you. That's not how it works in the film industry...at least I don't think so.
Well, yeah, sure. I think most here do not put all of their eggs in the screenwriting basket.
To really get somewhere takes a witch's brew of luck, persistence, and ghastly amounts of time pursuing tenuous leads that will likely never pan out. Talent is only part of the equation.
But I stand by the heart of what I said -- even if you are only here for fun -- you need to believe you have talent -- or at least the capacity to improve.
Otherwise, I do not see the point.
Some people do put all their eggs in one basket.
I agree with your part about that it takes a lot of hard work and you have to believe in yourself and all that. Like Greg said "if it is to be, it's up to me". I'm a huge believer in that. However, in this particular business, there are thousands and thousand around the world, maybe even hundreds of thousand who chasing the same goal. A goal that only very few will reach. Unlike baseball, you can be a GREAT player, but it's very likely no one will ever know.
This leads me to another thing though that I'm curious about. What are the dreams of the people here? If your script was bought by a Hollywood studio, then what would happen? Will you be able to write an equally good script again...and again? Will you be writing scripts that they tell you to write? If so, what if you hate the script, could you still write it...on time and make it good? How much would you get paid? Would it be enough to make a decent living out there?
I know a couple of people that are professional writers. From what I hear, they get treated like shit all the time. Even though everything starts with a great script, writers seem to be treated like they are the least important. They get shafted all the time.
I don't know the answers, but one thing I do know, is that I've seen enough people get really depressed when the writing doesn't pan out for them. That's why it's important to be realistic too while at the same time believe in yourself.
Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Mark 11:23.
Everything is possible for him/her who believes. Mark 9:23.
Obviously I'm not beating myself up that I haven't made it as a pro writer at the age of 20. That would be ridiculous. We're all students of the craft, no matter how many screenplays we've written or production credits we have to our name, and that's a journey that lasts our whole lives.
But the story Chris said is the kind of thing I mean. Don't any of you ever worry that there might be some sort of ceiling within you which you'll just be banging your head against no matter how hard you try? That determined re-writing and absorption of feedback can only take you so far?
Again, I'm not saying this is the case with me. But don't any of you wonder that it might be true?
When one of my twins were 12, she had been told in school that you can be anything you want and don't let anyone say you can't. Well, that's all fine and dandy....except for this short skinny little girl wanted to be a professional football player! And she was serious too.
When one of my twins were 12, she had been told in school that you can be anything you want and don't let anyone say you can't. Well, that's all fine and dandy....except for this short skinny little girl wanted to be a professional football player! And she was serious too.
Not really skeptical to what you said, but rather how this business works. If you play baseball and you keep getting better and better people will notice, because you will become an important player to the team and they will want you. That's not how it works in the film industry...at least I don't think so.
Oh, I know. Haha. No way is that how the film industry works. I was referencing that to getting better at the craft. Basically stepping out of mediocrity and into more of a master at the craft. Making it in the industry is an entirely different ballgame altogether, though being really good at screenwriting helps a little.
When one of my twins were 12, she had been told in school that you can be anything you want and don't let anyone say you can't. Well, that's all fine and dandy....except for this short skinny little girl wanted to be a professional football player! And she was serious too.
Like Conan O'Brien said: "You can do anything you want - unless Jay Leno wants to do it too".
Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load
Can you imagine Phil starting a thread asking, "I wonder if I am any good..."
The question really is why any of us are writing, really? If everyone, here, is writing to become rich and famous, then we're all gonna be a pretty disappointed bunch. If, on the other hand, we write because we like to write and we have stories to tell, then we're all doing pretty good.
If my writing was a business, I would've closed shop a long time ago. I probably made more money the one year I was a janitor, than I have in twenty-five years of writing. And I spend more on my writing than I have made from it.
So why do I do it? Because I'm a writer. I'm a dreamer and I'm a storyteller. Not everyone has liked what I've written and they've been pretty verbal about it here (figuratively speaking). Being here is a learning experience. Probably the only better place to learn about writing is through a script doctor. And they're expensive.
Whether or not you're a good or bad writer, here, there will be those who will read your work. You just have to participate in the boards and learn from what others say.
And you have to have fun. That's the most important thing.
There is no way to re-insert a post. We'll there might be but it's way too complicated and could easily cause the world to implode if done incorrectly so no one has tried it. Best if you just post it to the thread now and say it was the first post.
Ok. Important saftey tip. Don't cross the streams.
No, I didn't get grilled. My script was...solid! Annoyingly,...
I'd rather have a solid script than some of the remarks I've got. Sometimes I wonder why I bother. I won't be entering more OWC challenges.
I know that with each script we write that it should be better than the last one, but I'm feeling that I haven't moved an inch in the past year. I might be going backwards.
I'd rather have a solid script than some of the remarks I've got. Sometimes I wonder why I bother. I won't be entering more OWC challenges.
I know that with each script we write that it should be better than the last one, but I'm feeling that I haven't moved an inch in the past year. I might be going backwards.
I have doubts every time I write something.
The only thing I think I've changed in the last 18 months is try not to use the word and, but that made a big improvement.
Now, if I could only figure out the proper use of commas....
When one of my twins were 12, she had been told in school that you can be anything you want and don't let anyone say you can't. Well, that's all fine and dandy....except for this short skinny little girl wanted to be a professional football player! And she was serious too.
Good point. People who tell kids they can be anything they want to be should be smacked over the head. My daughter started doing drama classes when she was 8 and I told her early in the piece that you've got more chance of winning the lottery than you have of becoming a Hollywood star. But it didn't dampen her enthusiasm. She's 16 and still doing drama. But she does it because she enjoys it. Not because she has delusions of grandeur.
Now, if I could only figure out the proper use of commas....
The advice I received about using commas was don't unless the sentence makes no sense without one. I try to stick with that advice. Now;if I could only learn;how to use semicolons.
Curse you, Jonny. I wrote a friggin' huge reply for you before you deleted your post and when I posted it there was no thread to reply to, I got an error message, and my well-thought out and lengthy reply was lost. You wasted fifteen minutes of my time. Thanks a lot.
Basically, what it said was: 1. Stop bitching. Screenwriting is not the only hard field to break into. 2. Mediocrity ultimately boils down to subjective opinion, and even if not so, again, it is not the only profession in which you would have to limit yourself initially.
Just eat your complaints, your apathy, and your defeatist attitude; chew them and swallow them, and get to write, damn it! We must fight our way to the top like the big boys do, just like in any other job. Think of it as a game of King of the Hill.
People who tell kids they can be anything they want to be should be smacked over the head. My daughter started doing drama classes when she was 8 and I told her early in the piece that you've got more chance of winning the lottery than you have of becoming a Hollywood star.
I'm not sure if this is your first one week challenge or your fifth, but don't let negative comments discourage you from entering the next one. My script is taking a severe beating. I've had others, Diplopia, for example, that have been better received. Not every song is going to be a hit.
Consider what's been said -- also, consider who said it. If you respect 'em, if you like their work, then be thankful for their comments. If not, dismiss 'em.
I'm here off and on, but I think the most thoughtful comments come from Bert, George and Pia -- even though she usually doesn't like my work. For absolute honesty, Dreamscale is good. You might not like what he has to say, but usually it's spot on.
Sniper had some good things to say in this thread. Things that I'm going to take on board.
Little darling, it's been a long cold lonely winter Little darling, it feels like years since it's been here Here comes the sun, here comes the sun and I say it's all right
Re the famous failures. For every one of them who made it there're tens of thousands who haven't. I remember seeing a comic once, where an athlete who had just won a race, said "the reason I won was because I trained hard and believed in myself etc. Then the guy who came second said "that doesn't work. I did all that and lost." Anyhow my point was that there are more people winning the lottery in a given year than there are people who are getting paid millions of dollars to act in movies. So therefore, statistically speaking, you're more likely to win the lottery than you are to become an A-list Hollywood actor. That's not me, being pessimistic or cynical, that's just the cold hard facts. If you take it a step further and compare the amount of actors who win Oscars in a given year compared to people who win lotteries then the stats are even more damming. So personally I think telling people that the sky is the limit if you work hard enough is just setting them up for disappointment and feelings of failure. Because the truth is the overwhelming majority of people who attempt to become Hollywood A-listers will fail.
I'm not sure if this is your first one week challenge or your fifth, but don't let negative comments discourage you from entering the next one. My script is taking a severe beating. I've had others, Diplopia, for example, that have been better received. Not every song is going to be a hit.
Consider what's been said -- also, consider who said it. If you respect 'em, if you like their work, then be thankful for their comments. If not, dismiss 'em.
I'm here off and on, but I think the most thoughtful comments come from Bert, George and Pia -- even though she usually doesn't like my work. For absolute honesty, Dreamscale is good. You might not like what he has to say, but usually it's spot on.
Sniper had some good things to say in this thread. Things that I'm going to take on board.
Seth
It wasn't actually anything to do with the OWC. It was more a general feeling that had been in the back of my head for a while. Just wanted to see if anybody else had experienced it, really - it's all very well to have that ambition or this ambition, but don't you ever worry that there's a certain level that might be beyond your capabilities as a writer?
Again, I'm not saying that this is what I fear for myself, or indeed this is what'll happen to anyone. I was just musing, really.
I use it to describe scripts that don't have any fundamental flaws, but just lack that extra hint of inspiration...which, is of course, your fear.
Easiest way to elevate a solid script?
More original premise. A brilliant idea solidly told will make a very good script.
So the first step may be to merely be more selective over material. Research more, read novels, magazines, look at art, photography, travel etc There are probably a million concepts on wikipedia alone that haven't been used.
Think of ways to encourage creativity like brainstorming charts etc
Basically just pick one aspect at a time and try to elevate it by degrees.
I was busy writing a re-writing outline-thinga-ma-jiggy. (Well it's kinduv an outline, with some bullshit thrown in for a good time) and here I find out I miss a whole thread about writing shit. Snooze and lose. Can't keep up with Simply sometimes. I gotta still listen to the Valentine's edition of Simply Radio.
Hey maybe I can find out if Dreamscale had the cathartic release yet. And as far as I know, Balt is chillin' with some kind of groove thing he's got goin' on.
Anyways, my standard reply to anyone who gives shit to Simply Writers who are flailing about in the stormy waters of the Simply Ocean will be this:
Yeah, that guy who said, "No I won't read your fuckin' script", or something like that. (Sometimes you lost the whole gist of things when you paraphrase) I think he was kinda givin' people some kind a shit. But I liked him and his words of wisdom; so that shoots down the whole "shit theory".
It wasn't actually anything to do with the OWC. It was more a general feeling that had been in the back of my head for a while. Just wanted to see if anybody else had experienced it, really - it's all very well to have that ambition or this ambition, but don't you ever worry that there's a certain level that might be beyond your capabilities as a writer?
Again, I'm not saying that this is what I fear for myself, or indeed this is what'll happen to anyone. I was just musing, really.
I see. I think it's natural for people to question their abilities. Those who are over confident, who don't recognize their weaknesses, are the ones who have little chance of succeeding.
Well if that condones Chapman's actions in your eyes, best of luck to you.
Colkutz, I'm not gonna get in a tit for tat with ya. I tossed a couple edifying scriptures to JohnnyBoy, and even backed them up with examples of people who have overcome insurmountable odds and achieved greatness. And then you and Phil wanna jump in and take cheap shots and Jesus. I don't think so. You can talk out of the side of your neck all you want. The Grass withers and the flowers fade, but the word of the Lord stands forever.
Happens all the time. Kind of hard not to when you're a jolly fat guy.
Oh, wait...
I always thought that was a cool play with the letters... But wait... You want to hear the truth? ... Nah. None of us can handle the truth. Let's save that for "The Revival of The Dead".
The pluses and minuses and all the confusions with Satan and Santa and Devil and Lived and it's just too much for a Mediocre Thread.
Keep fighting, children, but play fair and have a nice fairytale.
I always thought that was a cool play with the letters... But wait... You want to hear the truth? ... Nah. None of us can handle the truth. Let's save that for "The Revival of The Dead".
The pluses and minuses and all the confusions with Satan and Santa and Devil and Lived and it's just too much for a Mediocre Thread.
Keep fighting, children, but play fair and have a nice fairytale.
Sandra
My good friend Mr. Alucard told me the exact same thing once.
My good friend Mr. Alucard told me the exact same thing once.
Are you talking about the Vampire guy? I'm wondering if I had read this in one of my daughter's stories that she sent me, (the daughter that's into Japanese Anime) or if it's from something else. I recognize the name, but I can't place it.oug
The strange thing is, that Alucard is a powerful rechimot for me. Go figure. I can't remember the "two items" I bought at the grocery store today, and thus enjoyed the Alzheimer's because there's a great power in "forgetting", and then Alucard strikes this resonant chord.
Well, I'll just sit peacefully for now, enjoy my vodka and Japanese music, knowing full well that tomorrow, I'll be fighting like the Devil to come up with the perfect words.
My good friend Mr. Alucard told me the exact same thing once.
Shelton scolds us about taking the thread off topic, even dropping the (rather apt I will admit) "mediocre" bomb on us before continuing the thing on the subject of festively plump chimney dwellers and frickin' vampires from the 60's (and yes I did have to look that up on IMDB) What kind of modding is that, Mick?!
Shelton scolds us about taking the thread off topic, even dropping the (rather apt I will admit) "mediocre" bomb on us before continuing the thing on the subject of festively plump chimney dwellers and frickin' vampires from the 60's (and yes I did have to look that up on IMDB) What kind of modding is that, Mick?!
I'm intrigued. Would that be merely a grope, a caress, a bouncer-ish catch-you-by-the-lapels and fling you a full ten yards up the street or a full on, lock down body assault, weapons optional?
The is always starting my sentences for me, I hate that. And the is always pointing things out, like I don't see them. The chair. Duh! I know it's a chair and it's that one. The doesn't need to tell me these things. The nerve of the.
The is always starting my sentences for me, I hate that. And the is always pointing things out, like I don't see them. The chair. Duh! I know it's a chair and it's that one. The doesn't need to tell me these things. The nerve of the.
Well, you could always start talking like Peter Sellers in "Murder By Death".
Mediocrity is everywhere. Even in a group of the ten best runners in the world, one of those will be the best of the ten, one will be the worst, and the others are just the mediocre of the ten best. But those mediocre runners shouldn't just give up.
In other news - I'm scraping the theory of the mediocrity ceiling. Don't think it stands up to scrutiny. After all, writing's a feat of the imagination, right? Top athletes might be pyshical anomalies, but we don't have to have special mental powers in order to write a great screenplay.
Therefore, I'm working on a new theory, something about a 'spark of inspiration' that we all have but rarely tap into - the trick is to recognise when you have a great idea and utilise it. Keep in mind the guidelines/advice about what makes a good screenplay, but don't ignore yourself when you think you have a great idea/think of a good line/realise exactly where your final scene should take place. On the thread I linked to on Page 1, Dec said something like 'talent is the amount of effort you put into life'. I like that. Live, observe, contemplate...and your writing will reflect that.
But I stand by the heart of what I said -- even if you are only here for fun -- you need to believe you have talent -- or at least the capacity to improve.
And you have to be willing to learn while you're here!
I remember one or two people, here who would make the same mistakes over and over again. They'd promise to do better in their next scripts and -- BOOM -- the scripts were littered with the exact same mistakes.
And you have to be willing to learn while you're here!
I remember one or two people, here who would make the same mistakes over and over again. They'd promise to do better in their next scripts and -- BOOM -- the scripts were littered with the exact same mistakes.
Phil
With the amount of members on this board, one or two is a pretty darn small number. I just tended to think of my scripts 'as' litter. . . .
I'm still waiting for an idea to crop up that doesn't crumble before my eyes in the first rough phase, and then I'll post another script some day. *sigh*
I'm sure that there were more who didn't listen to criticism. One person, in particular, wrote script after script after script, with the same problems. He just refused to listen.
I don't recall seeing him in a while. People probably stopped reading his scripts because he wouldn't listen.
Since I'm guilty of pissing about this thread without actually addressing your very pertinent post, I said I'd give you my outlook on things.
First off, I totally understand where you're coming from and what you’re trying to say. From the nature of the industry, its limited opportunities plus your own insecurities in terms of ability and what you think you can have to offer the world of film.
Its being well documented how "tough" the industry is. Obviously, I don't know from personal experience merely being, like most of us here, a bystander looking in. But we all know the stories, the few that succeed and the thousands that don't. Its a lucrative, potentially high profit margin business diectly proportional to the necessary requirements like motivation, work rate (and as you correctly pointed out) luck and exceptional talent to actually "get in" there. The biggest fear and even inevitable expectation with some of us is that we will fall, unspectacular and unnoticed, into the latter category.
I've accepted that, or at least remind myself of the fact whenever I get carried for some reason or other. But does it stop be from writing...no, of course not. I think it all comes down to whatever enjoyment and satisfaction you derive from the actual process itself. I remember I had ideas rolling around my head for a year or two before I (literally) put pen to paper. And when I did, I regretted not starting those one or two years earlier. I gave myself too mantras to live by;
Firstly: Just start writing, stop thinking about it, start and see how it goes. I mean, what’s the harm? Its free, it’s something I’m interested in, so why not? I remember seeing an interview of Tarantino talking about Reservoir Dogs where he just said if you have ideas knocking about, get writing them, don't wait for the perfect opportunity, the right time to come around just start and take it from there. Basic yet sound advice, in my opinion.
Secondly: (once I had begun) keep writing. I know, simple, stating the obvious, but as well as reminding myself that nothing will (probably) ever come out of this I also told myself to keep writing as long as I enjoyed it. If the ideas keep coming, keep at it. Like I said, it’s free, its fun (not all the time I’ll admit) so why not? I see it as a hobby if nothing else, as Andrew Allen famously put it (its got it own thread now) its a cathartic release, therapy but above something I like doing.
That's the most vital thing, in my opinion, (which I realise I’m saying for the umpteenth time now) as long as you get some pleasure from it…you know the rest. Again I understand your point completely, it can be very demoralising if a work of yours is poorly received, producers aren't interested and it doesn’t look like your going to be seeing your words on screen anytime soon, that’s where a little hunger comes in, a little self belief that you will get it right, that you can always improve. To me, it’s like playing a sport or an instrument. Sure, I’d love to be doing it for a living, to have that level of skill but the fact that I don’t doesn’t stop me from continuing to take part/play them. It all comes back to what you’re getting out of it personally.
To be fair, it looks like your situation is different to mine. I studied engineering in college (which I whole heartedly regret) so I can afford to be more lax and hobby-ish about it. Being a film student, this is effectively the basket you have put your eggs into, this is what you want to do, thus the stakes are higher, thus your level of worry about your abilities and future in it is of more concern. However, as I'm sure you well know more than me, there are many capacities in which to work in amongst the arena of film making. You don't have to go straight for the top positions like writer/director/producer, have the aspirations sure but be prepared to work towards those goals rather then instant attainment. Out of the miniscule portion of people who "make it" a fraction of them come in at the top level from the get-go. Again, this comes down to a combination of remarkable talent and luck...and sometimes even that's not enough.
But think of Sergio Leone, one of the most respected and revered filmmakers in the history of cinema. He began from the bottom, gradually worked his way up, gaining invaluable experience along the way so when he did finally get in the chair he was ready to roll. Similarly with Spielberg, he got rejected by a film school three times and of course, Tarantino is probably most famous case of this in recent times. You must be willing to grovel, toil, and to subject yourself to menial, poorly paid work for a time, which is where one’s motivation and work rate comes in. But it’s these kind of stories that you should take some hope from, if nothing else.
As for reaching a "ceiling", you’re only 20, man, you got plenty of years to mature and nurture your talent. I'm only a few years older then you so I can only speculate that life experience, watching more films, reading more scripts and immersing yourself in the craft will only influence and inform your writing the older you get and all in a good way depending on what you decide to take on board and what you decide to discard. I hear what you’re saying, we all worry about our own self worth in all facets of life and if we don't, we should, its natural and very human to doubt our own ability, it helps us put a rein on things, to refocus our direction…at least that’s how I feel about it, I’m sure not all will agree. Everybody has their own way of doing things, their own approaches, thought processes, their methods of figuring things out.
There is a podcast called Creative Screenwriting Magazine where they host Q & A's with the industry’s top writers/filmmakers or at least some of the most popular ones. The most encouraging thing I get from it is how different everybody’s approach is, how varied they go about their profession, from breaking in to the business, to breaking a story, to outlining, to first draft and subsequent rewrites. However rigid the discipline strives to be with format and standards it can't control an individual’s inclination to do what they think is right and what feels most natural to them. There is no sure way, yet there is no "right" way in the traditional sense, you beat your own path, you play to your own strengths. Naturally, compromises will have to be made along the way but getting to that point can be (fortunately) achieved any number of ways.
Ok, I'm gone on a bit of a tangent here, yappin’ too much and stepping into pretentious, high flown meander so I'll finish by saying (for the umpteenth+1time) keep at it as long as you like what your doing. The day you stop feeling some degree of excitement when you go to write a concept, pitch, outline or draft, the day it becomes a formality, a chore as oppose to something you want to tackle then you might have a problem, those fears you expressed in your post will unfortunately come true but then again if you not enjoying it you won’t miss it. But! until that day (hopefully never) comes, and to quote Mr. Shelton "keep on typing"
P.s With all this talk about great standards and needing that certain “x-factor” to make it. Think of all the crap which made it to your local theatre and instead of fuming over the 9 quid you spent on sitting through the wretched thing, take some encourage that you could do a whole lot better no matter how mediocre you may be…So theres always that glimmer.
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