Another withering attack from the attacker. If you trace back through our 'discussions', you'll see 95% of it revolves around me attempting to fend off attack after attack on 'liberals'. Like the contradictory attack that the Democrats regulate business to death whilst also stating above that the Democrats grow big business. Or equating the situation Bush inherited to the situation Obama inherited - that's one of my personal faves. Or that Britain is soon to fall under sharia law. Or that anything bad that has happened ever is down to 'leftism'. Or that all liberals secretly support Hitler. Or that all liberals are anti-Semitic. I could go on, but nothing will dissuade you of the - baseless - arrogant triumphalism that sums up this comment:

Quoted from kevin You may lack the time to debate with me, but you also lack the ammunition and the firepower.

The endless copy and paste platitudes like:

Quoted from kevin I understood, though, because I know how important these beliefs are to your sense of self and your perceived moral superiority.

Quoted from kevin That was due to the jumbled and uninteresting nature of your remarks.

are delivered with such a delicious irony.

At the end of the day, any person not inhabiting the far right like you can peruse the 'discussions' and make their own mind up.

The day that you bring what you believe to the table, rather than ascribing all that in bad in the world to liberals, is the day I'll bring my ammunition and firepower. Until that day, I really am signing off now.

Long time ago here at SS in some other political thread where people argued extensively especially left vs right, there was a test everyone could take to see where your thoughts placed you on a political map. (wish I could find that test) Interestingly enough, most people ended up being libertarians.

Yeah, I ended up halfway down on libertarian right.

I found it a little odd that Obama was halfway up on authoritarian right, though...

See how some people choose to debate?

I say dogs wag their tails when they are happy.

He says, no, cats are finicky.

And I'm left scratching my head. What does that have to do with dogs?

I ask if he knows that Wall St gave overwhelmingly to Obama in 2008, and if he knows why?

He says a record number of small donors contributed to the campaign.

So? What does that have to do with why Wall St gave so much to the campaign?

Obama's people have been pointing out the small donors for 4 years. They doth protest too much, clearly. They don't want people to know about the big business money and financial institution money that flowed in.

But I will address the small donations. Who were these donors? do they identify them? Because it seems to me that there were 2 large interest groups that wanted Obama in office. One was the financial industries who wanted to make sure Tarp money continued to protect their investments. Yes, Bush began Tarp, but Republicans were hesitant, reluctant. It was clear they would not give any more. The Dems, on the other hand, embraced it. It was the greatest thing since sneakers to them. Why? Because it put the government in control, with all the strings attached. And they LIKE government control. That's their defining philosophy.

The second group that had a huge stake was the millions of government workers. And here is where your small donors likely come from. Trust me, here in my state, Massachusetts, government workers know how it works. You want to play you have to pay. Government workers are expected to contribute every year to their Democrat benefactors. They are also expected to show up at party rallies and fundraisers, and get a lot of grief from bosses when they don't. Here are your Obama contributors. Why so much in 2008? They knew what was at stake. Government has grown mighty fat, and it was time for some fat slicing. That means them. They ponied up.

Below is a very well considered piece explaining how Clinton dramatically increased the deregulation begun under Reagan, and bragged about it many times. This deregulation was in great part a reason for the success of the economy under his administration, but it ultimately contributed to the collapse of 2008.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/05/to-save-obama-clinton-ignores-his-own-deregulation-moves/

I think it's fair to conclude that a balance between regulation and freedom in financial markets is wise. How exactly to achieve that balance is difficult, especially since the financial industry is always changing, so rules that apply in 1980 will be utterly useless in 1990.

The problem with Dodd Frank is that it's an intrusive patchwork designed by special interests and Left wing agenda setters. It harms small financial businesses, so therefor helps the big boys eager to suppress their competition. Personally, Frank and Dodd were both corrupt and completely in bed(in Frank's case literally) with big financial players that rewarded them for letting them write the legislation.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Long time ago here at SS in some other political thread where people argued extensively especially left vs right, there was a test everyone could take to see where your thoughts placed you on a political map. (wish I could find that test) Interestingly enough, most people ended up being libertarians.

I'd be left libertarian...sharing my spot with the likes of Ghandi, the Dalai Lama and Nelson Mandela.

Basically the perfect place to be for a fully realised human being.


Sort of obvious that people should be free and treat each other and the environment with respect, but it seems a hard philosophy to put into a political system.

lol, "liberals secretly support Hitler"?

You are too much. Boy, I actually have to thank you. I needed that! Oh, man, that's good.

In America, liberals hated Hitler...but not until 1941. They weren't moved much on the subject until then.

They started hating Hitler in June of 1941. I'm sure you know what happened then. Their precious Soviet Union was invaded. I've read the NYT editorials. Liberals were outraged when Hitler did that, calling the US to break isolation. No one messes with the collectives.

Curious if there are any undecideds/independents who were swayed or impacted by Clinton's speech last night?

Quoted from Andrew Curious if there are any undecideds/independents who were swayed or impacted by Clinton's speech last night?

I was. He killed it with his opening line...

Was really hoping to stay out of this discussion, but I really can't help but to chime in.

First, I'll state that I'm a libertarian. Secondly, I'm happy this thread is more of a discussion and less of a debate. One of the many reasons I hate politics is because people don't ever talk about politics. They fight over them. Surpisingly, this thread is pretty mild mannered (except for a few spouts here and there).

Taking this point a bit further...

I firmly believe that talking politics pointless. It's incredibly trite and accomplishes nothing. Literally nothing. When was the last time you've convinced someone to switch sides? It won't happen and never will. So why do we talk politics? Because we all want to be heard. It's a bit of an ego trip, but more of a characteristic. Politics are just an excuse for people to argue about something.

People who argue about politics are simply repeating what they've heard. They get fodder from their family, television stations, etc and argue those points. But those points aren't facts. In fact, I don't believe in facts when it comes to politics. Everything's so biased these days. And parties lie all the time. You can't trust your anchormen any more than your politicians. It's sad quite frankly. But it's true. Just look at the speeches presented at the Republican and Democratic National Conventions. Sure members of the same party will defend their candidate, saying that facts were embellished. But it's just a cover up for saying that their leaders lied.

This will be my final word on the matter. I don't care what you are, Republican or Democrat. As long as you're true to yourself, that's all that matters. Don't believe in something just because your party believes in it. Heck, I don't agree with the Libertarian party 100% of the time. And neither should you. Quit blindly following your leaders, parents, party, media, etc. Realize that those individuals DO NOT have your best interest in mind.

Clint said it best. Our leaders need to remember that they work for us. And Clinton was right on point. Progress is made when Democrats and Republicans come together.

Happy discussing everyone. And whatever happens come November, it really won't matter two s hits.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new.....ch-article-1.1153053

Above is the Associated Press, which leans Left generally, fact checking of Clinton's speech. They mention many of the things I have discussed here: the bursting bubble and looming crisis at the end of the Clinton administration, and the deregulation in 1997 which led to the collapse of 2008.

Great speech from John Kerry. You learn that the best way to deal with the ridiculous is to ridicule it. That said, the substance is there as well. The Bin Laden quote is a great rebuttal to this silly Reaganising. Old Ronald himself wouldn't have voted for this lot. It's well known how poorly Margaret Thatcher regards Sarah Palin and the Tea Party. And when Thatcher starts to feel cuddly, you know it's gone too far.  

And it's worth repeating what Bill said: No president could've cleaned up the mess that was left by the Republicans in 4 years.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u8WtLqKJcTk

Quoted from leitskev Above is the Associated Press, which leans Left generally, fact checking of Clinton's speech.

Funny but from where I sit ALL US press leans right.    There is no meaningful left in the US.

"We are not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers."

What did Bush do to create the economic mess?

"They drove us into a ditch".

Those bastards! How dare they! But wait, what did they do again?

"They drove us into a ditch. Are ya deaf, son?"

Ditch, yeah, got it. But what does that mean? What specifically did they do?

"They made a mess, boy. Halliburton, Dick Cheney for God's sake."

So it was Cheney?

"It was Bush. Drove us right into a ditch. Now they wanna do it again."

Ok, if you could, what policies of theirs drove us into a ditch?"

They took money from the poor, gave it to the rich.

How dare they! Wait, how did they do that? So the rich made money off the collapse?

"They drove us into a ditch, boy. Where you been?"

Ok, obviously I'm the slow one here and and it's me that can't keep up with you. But how are you gonna get us out of the ditch again?

"Gotta clean up the mess. My turn to drive. Ain't gonna give you no keys back. You crazy?"

I must be.