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Game: Bad Criticism to Good Criticism translator (currently 3264 views)
mcornetto
Posted: February 6th, 2013, 5:51pm
Guest User
Here's a game that should also teach.
We've all given or fell victim to bad criticism. Sometimes, it would be nice to get helpful comments rather than ones that make us feel like shit.
Perhaps, at times, we can't find the right words to express our discontent in a positive way. This game will provide us all with the reference we need to overcome that obstacle (Either that or the thread will dissolve into childish bickering).
Simply provide a bad criticism and then provide the good criticism translation (it's harder than it sounds). You can do as many as you like. You can even reinterpret a previous bad criticism because you might disagree on someones approach. I'll go first to show you how.
Bad: Your script sucks. Good: It seems like you might be fairly new to screenwriting. I suggest you take a look at some scripts on this site, something by (author), and then approach a rewrite.
Bad: You're a terrible writer. Good: Your writing style isn't my cup of tea. I prefer something like (author). You might want to check one of his/her scripts out.
Good points, Michael. I've been on here about a month or so, and when I've offered criticism of a script that isn't particularly well-written, what I'll typically do is point out some of the errors in formatting and grammar on the first page or two, then suggest they go back and edit extensively, then re-submit the script for a follow-up review. I have even told a couple of them to PM me if they want me to get more in-depth with the critique. I also do as you suggest and have them take a look around for other scripts, particularly ones that have been well-reviewed, or to read professional scripts.
While it's pretty obvious on some scripts posted on here that the writer is either pretty raw or just lazy (or both), there's a way to point out their mistakes without destroying any desire for them to continue the writing process. Now if they keep posting things on here and keep making the same mistakes, even after we made suggestions to them to consider doing A, B & C, then what I will likely do is just ignore any script from that writer in the future and not waste the energy reading something they've written.
Some of my scripts:
Bounty (TV Pilot) -- Top 1% of discoverable screenplays on Coverfly I'll Be Seeing You (short) - OWC winner The Gambler (short) - OWC winner Skip (short) - filmed Country Road 12 (short) - filmed The Family Man (short) - filmed The Journeyers (feature) - optioned
Bad: There's a typo in your logline. If you are so unprofessional to leave this here, you have no chance of getting me or anyone else to read your fucked up script.
Good: DON'T LEAVE A FRIGGIN' COMMENT!!!
I don't leave comments in 20-30% of the scripts I start reading (emphasis on the word start). Either five or ten people have previously left the same criticism I would've left, or I don't get far enough to leave a comment.
Whoops, sorry Michael--forgot to leave my examples!
Good: The writing needs a little work, particularly on the grammar--take some time to edit this and then re-post and we'll give it another look.
Bad: You write like a third grader. Actually a third grader probably has a better grasp of grammar than you do.
Some of my scripts:
Bounty (TV Pilot) -- Top 1% of discoverable screenplays on Coverfly I'll Be Seeing You (short) - OWC winner The Gambler (short) - OWC winner Skip (short) - filmed Country Road 12 (short) - filmed The Family Man (short) - filmed The Journeyers (feature) - optioned
Good points, Michael. I've been on here about a month or so, and when I've offered criticism of a script that isn't particularly well-written, what I'll typically do is point out some of the errors in formatting and grammar on the first page or two, then suggest they go back and edit extensively, then re-submit the script for a follow-up review. I have even told a couple of them to PM me if they want me to get more in-depth with the critique. I also do as you suggest and have them take a look around for other scripts, particularly ones that have been well-reviewed, or to read professional scripts.
While it's pretty obvious on some scripts posted on here that the writer is either pretty raw or just lazy (or both), there's a way to point out their mistakes without destroying any desire for them to continue the writing process. Now if they keep posting things on here and keep making the same mistakes, even after we made suggestions to them to consider doing A, B & C, then what I will likely do is just ignore any script from that writer in the future and not waste the energy reading something they've written.
Hey Hawkeye - in total agreement here. (Yes, I know I just quoted your entire post, but it deserved repeating!)
My style: If something is so GAWD AWFUL STINKY TERRIBLE that I can't read it, I just put it down and walk away.... quietly. Because if it's THAT bad, no amount of criticism is probably going to help. The person just ain't cut out for the writing biz.
But if there are honest good and bad things about the script.... I'll comment on the good stuff, and politely point out the rest. Things like "you should do slugs such and such a way." Or - I found my mind wandering at Point X. I think you should punch up such and so.
This, I do for a number of reasons:
1) I (generally) respect people and don't want to crush their soul arbitrarily (On purpose, sure - but only if they've got it coming)
2) Assuming the person's genuinely interested in improving their craft, they're *way* more likely to listen to sweetly framed comments rather than a general bashing. And if they don't listen at all? Well, then I'm done wasting my time with them....
Granted, anyone in the writing craft better grow a thick skin. But you gotta grow that sucker over time...!
Bad: Your main character sucks. I hate him/her. Good: I find it difficult to identify with your protagonist because s/he makes the following choices: blah blah and blah. I don't believe that s/he didn't see a better way to deal with those problems, so I don't really like him/her.
Bad: Your first act sucks. I'm bored and giving up. Good: I think you're suffering from pacing problems. As it is, there's nothing to keep me reading, so I'm stopping. Here's what it would take to keep me engaged in this story: blah blah and blah. Here's what I think is unnecessary and therefore dull in the first act: blah blah and blah.
Bad: Your formatting sucks, so I'm not going to read it since the rest probably sucks too. Good: Your script isn't in standard screenwriting format, which makes it difficult to read. You should know that if it stays in this format, many people, including myself, won't bother to read it at all. If you repost in standard format I'll probably be happy to take a look!
Bad: Your dialogue sucks. It sounds completely fake. Good: Some of the dialogue didn't sound very believable to me. Here are some examples of lines: blah blah and blah. These lines didn't sit well with me because: blah blah and blah.
Bad: writer form a foreign land with no clue about how to write good script. childish best describes you, you b****. i write better script in my dreams than you on your best day, faggot.
Good: Yo, what up hommie from the Irish getto. Let me give you the low down y'all on your pencil scratching skills my man. See, it be like 'dis bro. I got skills see, 10 features under my belt, produced. You feel me bro? Well, your script caught my eye. I can tell you're newbie bro, don't sweat see, you got to hang in there, keep working. This ain't a game baby, it's hard work.
Yo, maybe we can hang some time too bro, ya know what I'm saying?
Bad: My neighbor wrote something just like this script. He's a moron too. I can only assume that all the typos are due to a malfunctioning keyboard, caused by the constant stream of drool trickling from your mouth-breathing face.
Good: You have a very common writing style. You misspelled page number 364. "W" isn't a Roman numeral.
BAD: Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....
2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.
Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....
2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.
Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....
2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.
Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....
2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.
Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
BAD: Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....
2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.
Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....
2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.
Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....
2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.
Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits....
2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.
Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. Phil
If I only had a nickel for every time I got this review.
If I only had a nickel for every time I got this review.
Jordan
You weren't around when he was getting those....
And now that everyone has got their yaya's out joking about bad vs good - can we try to take this a bit more seriously? I still expect some jokes but some actually helpful posts would be appreciated too.
Bad: This script makes The Room appear Oscar worthy, and I would go as far as saying it was the worst thing I have ever read. Nothing happens! It's just two guys smoking weed and talking!
Good: Whilst it is fine for your characters to smoke weed, it is probably best you didn't. Because people who smoke weed ramble, and go around in circles. Try giving your protagonist a real goal, something stronger than wanting to find where he put his Zippo lighter. And throw some real conflict in there.
I don't know much about screenwriting criticism, but I know that when I play poker, if you beat someone and that person responds, "Nice hand", they're really saying, "Go fuck yourself". It's all about subtext.
BAD: This feels rather convoluted. The idea has been done numerous times before. The characters you created are rather cartoonish. The good news is - this is the best thing you written so far.
GOOD: This feels rather convoluted. You could do more with the idea. I suggest you add to characters, give them their own voices. I've seen better things from you - you definitely can do it.
GOOD: I feel like you know what the theme is, but I'm not following. Put yourself in the position of the reader. And try to see what's in your head BUT not on the page. Then find a way to bridge the gap.
No jokes here. Move along.
E.D.
LATEST NEWS CineVita Films is producing a short based on my new feature!
BAD: This feels rather convoluted. The idea has been done numerous times before. The characters you created are rather cartoonish. The good news is - this is the best thing you written so far.
GOOD: This feels rather convoluted. You could do more with the idea. I suggest you add to characters, give them their own voices. I've seen better things from you - you definitely can do it.
Not to be smart, but I don’t see what would be wrong in calling someone’s characters “cartoonish.” It’s probably a nicer way of saying “your characters are fuckin’ lackin’, big time,” and still gets your point/opinion across.
You're right, there's nothing wrong with calling the characters cartoonish. Or call the story convoluted or say it was done before. However it's wrong to say afterwords that it's the best thing you wrote.