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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Action/Adventure Scripts  ›  Loud and Nasty Moderators: bert
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  Author    Loud and Nasty  (currently 11295 views)
TAnthony
Posted: June 13th, 2006, 7:12pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for your review Michel and RonMexico, you've been very helpful and should aid in my re-write.

Michel I've reviewed your script Forever...And again.

Michel- Before I began writing this I was actually thinking I would do sort of a film noir set in the forties, but then I figured I'd just do it present day because I wasn't sure if I could pull that off.

RonMexico- Thanks again for the awesome critique. I was trying to make Tucker hyped up to be some huge notorious gangster, but when you get to really know him he's not as tough as he's supposed to be. I guess I should flesh that out more.

I was also trying to make Luther the antagonist, but not neccesarily the bad guy. He's just as bad of a person as Tucker Price. I don't want it to appear that anyone in my script is the good or bad guy... They're all bad.

Thanks again!


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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I_M
Posted: June 13th, 2006, 11:33pm Report to Moderator
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So...

> The character of the Man is really descriptive, the way he walks, the way his attitude seems to be. Good. But there are some lines like, 'he's not smiling, he's not angry...' just put 'He's determined' cause the lines aren't really needed.
>'He Couldn't Care about...' same thing as I said above, those lines aren't really needed. You need to show the audience. Not tell them.
>Pg. 5> great dialogue
>Pg. 7> nice intro
>I'm on page 30 now and it seems great so far, great dialogue and good character development.

I'll continue tommorow.


Fear Friday: some students will die to survive a twisted killer. Coming soon.
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Parker
Posted: June 15th, 2006, 11:37am Report to Moderator
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Okee dokie, just finished. Sorry it's a little late than I wanted it to be but, better late than never .

SPOILERS!!

Just a few things:

Page 12: “I done killed before and I can do it again.” I think that should be “I’ve done killing before...”

Page 22: “We’re inly going to kill one of you.” I think you just hit the I instead of the O.

Page 27: “What kind of way is that to treat your own brother...” It should be YOUR not YOU’RE.

Page 32: “No, it’s find where it is.” It should be fine not find .

I stopped writing down these little mistakes after halfway. I think most of them you know now from other reviews. I hope so anyway .

Characters: I loved the names on most of them. All of them really. You've picked some pretty cool, not totally unique, but names that you usually don't hear of or see in films. I loved The Man. I could immediately recognise him in my head. Though, to me, I could picture him a lot like Max Payne with your description of his voice mixed with a picture of Hartigan, Bruce Willis’ character on Sin City. Saying that, there are a few other times I felt I was reading something in the style of Sin City apart from a huge thing I'll mention later. But yeah, the characters were great, they all seemed to have their own style of dialogue most times so it helped me believe these characters a lot more.

Dialogue: Not the best but it was pretty good in some parts. A lot of the time I really liked the dialogue though were the times it sounded like something one of the characters from Sin City would say. Like The Man, he was a very Sin City-ish character. Which is good thing... I don't mean it like the parts where I felt Sin City was creeping in, that you had just copied Sin City or anything. It had it's own style to it. Really cool.

The Story: Really cool. I enjoyed reading how the story unfolded. You had the right characters for the right story and everything just integrated together almost perfectly. Loud and Nasty is a pretty cool title for an action-y movie, I wasn't too bothered when I actually read it in the dialogue but some might think placing it in the dialogue would be corny. I didn't however, I thought it was a good touch and it didn't feel like you just stuck it in there so people could hear it.

The ending of the story was great. Though I do feel like you could've made a larger explanation to Luther's suicide. All you've put is "Luther raises his gun to his head..." The a second later: "Luther kills himself". You could go into gory details, I know you did it earlier in the story but I don't mean seriously gory .

The Only Part I Hated: You might laugh at this. I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned it but it was a really big deal to me. I said earlier in my review I was going to mention this at the end and here it is. The characters dialogue was fine and all but what would have made this script really good and not just good would have been the inclusion of a lot of swearing/cursing! You need your characters to CURSE a lot please!! The characters just don't feel real at all. There's a lot of times where the guys are saying "I'm gonna blast you...". Screw that, say something like "I'm gonna shoot a mother-fucking bullet in your mother-fucking head!!" I know it sounds like something Samuel L Jackson would say but most times it's what someone like his character would say, you know. Cursing is real life. Everyone does it, even the most sweetest of people when the tough gets going. Place a lot of curse words in your screenplay and it'll be a really cool script. Until then it's just a good one.

Well, I hope this helps and I hope I didn't ramble on too long on the last part there. Anyway, good luck with it, you're a good writer who knows how to tell a story well. It was enjoyable .

GBM


I may be an idiot, but I'm no idiot.
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TAnthony
Posted: June 15th, 2006, 1:59pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks GBM,

You're the second person who said I need more curse words lol. One thing about curse words for me is that they kind of clutter things up in first drafts so that's why I normally wait to incorporate them when I have a final draft that is... "final".

Thanks for your critique.


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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Parker
Posted: June 15th, 2006, 4:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from TAnthony
Thanks GBM,

You're the second person who said I need more curse words lol. Thanks for your critique.


Hey, it's cool. I hope I wasn't too harsh on that point about the cursing. It's not like if there wasn't any cursing in Loud and Nasty it would be really bad or anything. Your script is truly good and it can get much better, which is really, really good. Keep at it and something could very well come out of it TAnthony!  


I may be an idiot, but I'm no idiot.
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michel
Posted: June 16th, 2006, 6:47am Report to Moderator
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I'm f****g agree with GravyBoatMan (lol). Even for an alien like me, I missed the cursing while I read.

Michel


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TAnthony
Posted: June 20th, 2006, 11:42pm Report to Moderator
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I wrote Loud and Nasty not too long ago, and I remember when I first wrote it I was feeling so strongly about it. I mean I just loved my script to death. After a few reviews a few re-writes and cutting some things out, I really started to dislike it. I've read over it numerous times and I just don't like it as much as I did in the past. I'm thinking it's because...

-I've read it so many freakin' times and now it's just getting boring.
-It was never that good in the first place so no wonder.
-I've cut something out that I like.
-Thinking about other scripts I could be writing.

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm getting kind of worried.

Thanks.


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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Shelton
Posted: June 20th, 2006, 11:46pm Report to Moderator
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I've ran into this situation before, and mainly because of the first reason you laid out.

It just gets to a point where you're rewriting and rewriting and doing whatever, and you're dealing with the same characters and sotryline that it'll just start to drive you crazy.

Why not start work on a new script?  You can turn out a first draft of something, and then go back to L & N afterward.  You'll get your mind away from it for awhile, write somethign new, and be able to go back with a fresh perspective and be more objectionable.

I do it a lot actually.  I'll write a short after a rewrite, or start work on a new feature, and then I'll have things I can alternate rewrites on.


Shelton's IMDb Profile

"I think I did pretty well, considering I started out with nothing but a bunch of blank paper." - Steve Martin
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Jaykur22
Posted: June 20th, 2006, 11:52pm Report to Moderator
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Not that this brings much to the conversation, but I've been feeling the exact same way.  I've only written one screenplay, but at least you know you're not alone.


Mason: "Are you sure you're ready for this?"
Stan Goodspeed: "I'll do my best."
Mason: "You're best. Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and f*** the prom queen!"
Stan Goodspeed: "Carla was the prom queen."
Mason: "Really?"
Stan Goodspeed: "Yeah!"
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TAnthony
Posted: June 20th, 2006, 11:55pm Report to Moderator
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I tried working on something else. I wrote a 100 page script called Fool's Gold, and when I came back to Loud and Nasty I still didn't feel like working on it.

I think I'll just try to stick it out best I can, and continue to re-write it and stuff.

Thanks.


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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tomson
Posted: June 21st, 2006, 12:01am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from TAnthony
I've read it so many freakin' times and now it's just getting boring.


I have this bad obsessive compulsive habit of having to read the script from the beginning before I start writing. I'm a very slow reader, so by the time I get to page 60 or so, it takes me at least 1/2 an hour of reading it before I can even start to type. Believe me, it doesn't take long before I'm so bored with it I just hit the delete button just to get it out of my life.
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Mr.Z
Posted: June 21st, 2006, 12:28am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from TAnthony
Has anyone else experienced this? I'm getting kind of worried.


INT. SCREENWRITER'S THERAPY GROUP - DAY

Mr. Z (29) stands in the middle of a group of screenwriters.

MR.Z
Hi, my name is Mr. Z and I delete scripts from my computer, after writing them.

EVERYONE
Hi, Mr.Z


Seriously, it is said that the only way to write an excellent script is to: write an awful one, then a very bad one, then a bad one, a mediocre one, then a good one, and finally an excellent one. Each script you finish makes you better, so it kind of makes sense if you feel a little bit ashamed or discouraged about your previous work.

At least that is what I tell myself to avoid seeing a shrink  

I think that as long you believe that your last script is better than the one before, you're moving forward.



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James McClung
Posted: June 22nd, 2006, 8:30pm Report to Moderator
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I'm reading this right now and noticing that I'm taking a lot more notes than I usually do. With that said, I'm going to have to break this review down into parts so it doesn't all end up being gigantic.

I see you’ve already got a good number of reads for this so my apologies if any of my comments seem redundant...

- "A convertible car speeds down an empty long winding road. The Man inside has a nasty scar off to the side of his face.” Stop right there. Everything that follows is either over-elaborating or can’t be shown on screen. Also, capitalize MAN. Character names should always be capitalized upon introduction.

- Lose the note about the Man’s identity. It’s not necessary.

- You have a lot of thick, blocky paragraphs that you need to break down and I don’t think you can do that by separating the sentences as they take up just as much space. Your descriptions are overly detailed and do a lot of telling and not enough showing. Screenwriting is intended to be very cut and dry and easy to read. Try to simplify things a little.

- The Man says he’s in a rush yet he literally forces the diner owner into conversation. A conversation, which can get him into serious trouble. Not to mention he’s saying things to the owner that beg for hostile reactions. Why would he do this if he is in a rush, especially when the subject of their conversation could actually get him to stay at the diner longer?

- Why does the Man pour coffee on the owner after he’s told him exactly what he wants to hear? Tucker Price does live in the city, right?

- Again, the Man’s in a rush and yet he decides to shoot up a diner? I suggest you lose the line earlier since it isn’t spelled out where he’s going.

- There’s a fine line between clever and downright silly and this Sammy scene is teetering on it something awful. Maybe you were going for a Tarantino thing and the scene was supposed to be funny. If not, you might want to do something about it. Either way, it runs too long. The guy’s on the ground twitching. The two guys can only debate so long.

- When you introduce the Man, he seems determined to kill Tucker. Yet when he finally gets close to him, all he does is bump his car. I think he’d be a bit more aggressive than that. You’ve got the opportunity for a big action sequence here but you don’t go anywhere with it. Just a suggestion. Think about it. Either way, the Man’s reaction rings false. I suggest you do something about it.

- Lose the note before the warehouse scene. This kind of thing is for the director to decide, not the screenwriter.

- I notice you’re giving a lot of backstory within the action lines. This is no good. The audience won’t know any of it if they ever see this on screen. Again, you need to show, not tell.

- Tucker practical gives the coke away to these guys. I think he’d put up more of a fight. I don’t think Tucker would want to face his boss after losing the coke. Surely whatever punishment he could think up would be worse than getting jumped by a couple of punks.

- Tucker says “you don’t understand.” I think it would strengthen his character if he made an attempt to make not only Cassandra but also the audience understand why he is constantly bailing his brother out of trouble. To simply say “he’s my brother” isn’t enough. This isn’t a must by any means but it might be something you could think about.

- Tucker’s line “I’m supposed to walk through the door and be like honey I’m home...” hurts his chances of being a likeable character. You’ve been doing good with him so far. I suggest you omit this bit and add something more, for lack of a better word, “moderate” sounding.

- “Mexico, Spain, Italy...” This line could be simplified to “Everywhere, and it’d just be you and me. No Miles, no twins, just us.” Even your dialogue is unnecessarily detailed. It’s not bad dialogue, it’s just that there’s too much of it.

- This scene with Zach and the Man, get rid of it all together. First off, it seems to be unintentionally comical and it doesn’t make sense that the Man would give Zach a warning. It also might help to cut down on some of the script’s bulk.

- We don’t need to know what Smooth is watching on TV. Omit this line.

- This whole conversation between Tucker and the twins goes nowhere. There’s no character or plot development, just meaningless chitchat. This is okay every once and a while but you’ve got two pages of it. This is no good. Just skip to Tucker reiterating what happened to him and Luther and even here, you should be careful. We already know what happened to them so only include the details the twins need to know.

I might as well share my initial thoughts now as I'm forty pages into the script and positive they're not going to change when I'm finished...

This is a very problematic script. Not a bad script, just problematic. To be fair, few of the problems actually have to do with the creative side of the script. Your story, characters, dialogue, etc. all seems to be okay so far, except at times, it does stray as I've said above. The main problem with the script is your problem with excess. Your script is 124 pages, which is on the long side, but not neccesarily so. It's not long because the story is complicated. It's long because you're writing way, way more than you should be. Everything, your sentences, your paragraphs, even your scenes run far, far too long, mostly due to meaningless detailed or you just getting carried away with your writing. You're also doing way too much telling and not enough showing in addition to using a lot of flowery writing, embelashing, and coloquial language that has no place in a screenplay. I'm enjoying your story and I like your characters so far but I feel like I'm reading a novel here as opposed to a screenplay.

Hope this helps.

More later...


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chubs mcgonigal
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I finished this one last night.  This is going to be a long review.  Here you are:


SPOILERS


DIALOGUE:
- With a title like Loud and Nasty I expected dialogue that was, well, Loud and Nasty.  It was neither.  Like Jack Kerouac says, "Grab your characters by the balls."  Let your characters talk how they want to talk.  If you've taken the time to get to know them this shouldn't be too difficult.

CHARACTERS:
The Twins - They're described as "the only twins you'll ever meet that act just alike".  I get the feeling that the only purpose one of them serves is as cannon fodder at the bloodbath near the end.  By giving them their own personality traits you could cause more tension between them, which creates a more suspenseful environment, which keeps people in their seats.

Slick - What's his purpose in this script?  Is his presence justifiable?

Cassandra - She's introduced as a gold digger.  What's her attraction to Smooth?

FORMAT:
There were a few spots where you wrote what the characters were thinking.  This can't be shown.  Have the characters project their thoughts by their actions.  A few examples:

pg. 4 - "The owner turns around wishing he had never met this man, and that that will be the last thing said between the two.  But it won't be."

Instead of telling the readers what the owner's thinking, write something that can be shown.  i.e. An expression on the owner's face.

pg. 6 - "One of the waiters THINKS about stopping it, but can't build up enough courage.  Insteads he YELLS:"

This can be omitted.

pg. 14 - "He's (Zach) real passive and just goes with the flow.  So naturally, when he sees the dead body he could care less."

You get the idea.

THE STORY:
I liked the opening sequence.  A stranger rolls into town seeking revenge.  It sets up conflict right away.  Good job.

On pg. 19 Luther's introduced.  The main characters and conflict had just been set up, then we flash back to a seemingly new character's introduction.  It was a safe assumption that Luther was The Man.  This kills some of the intrigue early on.  Only reveal what's necessary to grasp the plot and keep us guessing until the end.

On pg. 59 comes my biggest problem with the script.  The Man's motivation for revenge is revealed through a very long and very direct monologue.  Up to this point Tucker had been set up as the flawed, but likeable protagonist, and The Man as a ruthless maniac.

I began to sympathize with The Man and wasn't sure who to root for.  It's like a sporting event, it's much more fun to cheer for one team or the other.  Let the readers suspend belief here.  Let the villain remain the villain (at least until the end).

A lot of the action near the end is centered around the beef between Miles and Fat Boy's crew.  Miles seems to be the one thing which can spur Tucker into action (evidenced in the long list of people Tucker has killed as a result of Miles' shenanigans).  If The Man had abducted and/or killed Miles to get back at Tucker there would be much more room for conflict and action between them.

The story here is that a stranger's hunting Tucker and his crew.  Now Tucker has a problem.  He's seemingly a victim (hence a sympathetic character).  He's a fish out of water because he's generally the aggressor and in charge.  

The solution to his problem (The Man) was the death of The Man.  How much effort did Tucker contribute to this solution?  Very little, if any.  He exhausted far more energy in cleaning up his brother's messes.  

The ending felt like a duex ex machina ending.  The problem solved itself.  Sure, he ended up miserable for his criminal ways (moral of the story), but he didn't struggle to get The Man.

One example of what I'm trying to get across is the movie Seven.  Brad Pitt's character has a problem - Kevin Spacey's character.  At the end his problem's solved by Spacey's character's death (what he wanted).  Pitt's character loses in the end and winds up miserable, but the whole movie was his attempts to solve this problem (catch Spacey's character).  Without this, there would be no movie.  The protagonist should go to great lengths to solve his problems.

The conflict is between two criminals.  One (Tucker) appears to be the more moral of the two, so we sympathize with him.  On pg. 59 we begin to sympathize with The Man.  I don't think The Man's true motives (avenging his dead family) should be revealed until the very end.  I don't think The Man's true identity should be revealed to Tucker until the very end.

Tucker has struggled to find The Man and solve his problem.  He thinks it's his redemption until he realizes that The Man was one of his previous victims.  The Man shoots himself.  Tucker realizes he has lost despite his best efforts.  He has lost the moral higher ground.

THE FLASHBACKS:
On pg. 59 The Man's true motivation is revealed.  I think this should wait until the very end (there's a flashback showing this anyway).  

Throughout the script show brief flashbacks of the heist where Luther/The Man stold the money from his commrades, but not that it was for his kid's operation.  Show when they shot him for revenge, but without showing his family being shot.  Save this for the very end.  Lead us to believe that The Man's motivation was greed.  This adds to your good guy-bad guy switch-a-roo ending.

SUMMARY:
Your first post on this review thread said, "You can be as harsh as you want I just want the truth."  Later, you post about your growing distaste of the script.  It's almost as if you want reviews that will give you a valid reason to get rid of it.

Loud and Nasty has a lot going for it.  It has an original and engaging plot, which is the most important aspect of any movie.  It has a great catchy title (the reason I read this script).  The first sequence pulls the reader in immediately.  Now comes the work phase.

Take breaks when needed, but keep sluggin' away at this one.  You'll be glad you did.  Good luck.


If a dwarf wants to be tossed then, by God, let him be tossed.
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James McClung
Posted: June 27th, 2006, 9:35pm Report to Moderator
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- We don’t need this scene of Rick being integrated into the kidnapping plot. Just skip to when they have everything organized. It works just as well. Your goal right now is to get rid of as much subterfuge as possible.

- Why does the Man shoot a mirror at the motel? Again, he’s just drawing attention to himself.

- The Man's monologue doesn't work. I understand its purpose but no one would spend this much time talking to no one. It doesn't make sense. Either shorten it or lose it.

- The scene following the discovery of the Man’s  identity (via the man at the bar) is pointless. Just reiteration. Why repeat something that the audience already knows. Lose this scene altogether.

-  Capitalize Marshall’s name when you introduce him.

- Again, more reiteration. Lose the coroner scene.

- This final scene doesn't work at all. It's beyond anti-climactic, comes completely out of the blue, and makes no sense. Why would Luther spend so much time, the entire script, hunting Tucker down, just to kill himself in his own home?

Now, I'm guessing what you may have been trying to get at is that Luther wants Tucker to suffer in life rather than death. If this is the case, you'll want to make mention of it, either from Tucker or Luther. I think coming from Tucker, it would work better. If this isn't the case, see above.

Anyway, this was an extremely frustrating read. I've already explained to you the flaws in your writing style, regarding excess, but there's more. Your characters are fine. I liked Tucker. Such a straight arrow. Real down-to-earth guy (for a gangster anyway) that people can relate to easily. Luther was a good character as well. His motivation is understandable. There's also a decent story here but it is buried under much, much, too much subterfuge.

Now, as it turns out your script is shorter than Don's post says but your problem isn't your page numbers but what you fill your pages with. The subplot of kidnapping Tooth Pick's son was okay but takes up too much time and has basically nothing to do with the plot you start out with. I suggest you downsize it big time and try to integrate it into the main plot some how so it's of some relavence. The rest is either character development or meaningless chitchat. Character development is fine but don't let it hold the story back too much. I suggest you take it down a notch as a lot of what the characters say in the script is over elaborated. The chitchat, I'd say lose altogether.

I know it's a cliche but in your case, this is an absolute must: you want to keep your story moving forward as much as possible. Right now, your script is episodic. Try to bring the story into the forefront and I think your script will be in better shape.

Hope this helps.


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