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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Action/Adventure Scripts  ›  Down and Dirty Moderators: bert
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  Author    Down and Dirty  (currently 5352 views)
sniper
Posted: January 11th, 2007, 3:42pm Report to Moderator
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Dear Tyler,

Here is my review of 'Down and Dirty'.

!!!SPOILERS!!!

The Story.
A guy in a hat kills another guy in a hat. No, seriously, the story is very simple here. Gangsters mess with mobsters, mob wants revenge. Thugs mess with gangsters, gangsters want revenge. And vice versa. While the story doesn't have a whole lot of depth, it's certainly very entertaining and funny. It is fast paced, almost relentless, which makes it a very quick read.

As I mentioned before, the story is missing some depth. I think you missed an opportunity by not exploring more of Slick and Desmond's father-and-son-relationship. Because parenthood seems so out sync with a character like Slick, it could have let to some funny moments.

The Penelope/Hector subplot seems a little bit out of place as it removes the attention from the real plot. Especially the scene where Ugly takes Penelope to his place to show her the money and then just lets her walk out the door. It didn't really fit. Obviously all she wanted was to know where he hid his money, but the scene needs more meat to make it interesting.

The scene where Slick and Hector kills Joey seems a bit strange to me. They both come off as streetwise gangsters and that's why I think it would make more sense if they kill Joey AFTER they find the money - you know, if the money weren't there, all they would have been left would have been a dead body.

The action sequences are very entertaining but sometimes you go a little over the top. Not that I have ever tried it, but to shoot someone in the head from a moving car sounds very difficult, if not impossible. Another scene is where Penelope just happens to dive in after Hector, that smells a bit.

A thing you might wanna look into is the fact that it feels like the characters are always alone. There are no bystanders that get scared or tries to interfere (which is probably wise considering the arsenal these guys a packing). There's a lot of shooting going on but we never hear or see the police.

My overall problem with the story is that most of the events simply...just happen (like Desmond just happens to be in the alley when Cooper is attacked - a friend of his long gone father). There's no real lead up to them (except with Cooper's wife - which was a nice twist) and therefor the story loses some of its integrity. But all of this can easily be corrected.

The Characters.
Cooper, although he's killed early on, is actually the character with the most depth. I felt sorry for him with the break-up and all and was sad to see him go. Good work here.

I would have liked to have known a bit more about Desmond. It seems a little over the top that he wants to kill his father just for walking out on him and his mom. Now, if we had learned that his mom had to work four jobs just to provide for the family or if mom had dated a deadbeat who hit her and Desmond a lot, then that would justify his anger. Written like it is, he simply goes from a nice down-to-earth kinda guy to a psycho from one scene to the other. Desmond also tells Slick that he hasn't killed someone before but when he shoots Anthony he doesn't seem at all affected by the fact he just blew someone's head off. Instead he grabs a burger and has a chat with dad (okay, so it wasn't face to face - but he still killed a human being), that's the reason why I don't find it very believable when he cracks down after killing Benito.

Slick and Hector are written very stereotypical - as they should. It works, although Hector goes from tough guy to sensitive guy a bit too much to my liking. Penelope who steals the show at the end could use a little more depth because I never really cared about her. She's a bit uninteresting.

The Dialog.
I liked the dialog a lot. It is crisp, tight and fast. Sure there's a lot of cussing but I would expect nothing more from the these characters. The language is a bit repetitive at times though, F this, F that. Try to mix it up a bit.

There's a couple of instances that I don't like. When Cooper is banging on the bedroom door and his wife is on the phone with Benito, Benito says he'll come over as soon as he can. That seems like a strange thing to say to the woman you love, especially since he comes over right away. He should have said: 'Baby, I'm on my way'. Also, the argument between Slick and Desmond after the shoot-out in the cars seems a bit forced, it sort of comes out of nowhere. You should build it up a bit slower.

The Writing.
I really like the way you write. You keep it short and to the point. You're descriptive when you need to be and lets dialog run its course. Great work. Many are not crazy about flashbacks but I think you pull it off to perfection. You structured it just right. It reminds me of 'The Godfather' (the book, not the movie). Mario Puzo also used flashbacks a lot and it adds a certain shock value. Again, great work.

Overall.
This is a really entertaining script, I like it a lot. It's a fast read, a real pageturner. But it does need a little work in some places as mentioned above. This is of course just my opinion. Keep up the good work Tyler.


Regards

Robert


Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
sniper  -  January 11th, 2007, 4:01pm
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TAnthony
Posted: January 13th, 2007, 6:28pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the great review Sniper, very helpful. I've read your Infestation script and I'm getting to Outbreak.

So thanks again.


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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The boy who could fly
Posted: February 12th, 2007, 9:01pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Tyler, just got finished with this one.

This was a nice companion piece to loud and nasty, that one had more of a 70's Charles Bronson "death wish" kind of feel, this one was definitely more tarantinoish.


SPOILERS**********************************************



The opening scene I thought was pretty cool, the card game, the dialogue, it was pretty neat.

I liked how Desomd and Cooper were introduced, the fight with the thugs, but their dialogue after the fact felt kind of off, it just went on a little too long, I think it could be more affective once Cooper asks Desmond if he wants to come over for Desmond just to say "ya", I do not think you need the banter between them.

The Hector, Slick, Joey scene was cool, but I suggest you take out the reservoir dog's reference, that did not work for me.  I did love the eye gouging scene, really gross stuff.

I think they should have also not killed Joey until they got what they were looking for, just in case he was lying or something, kill him after they get the goods.

I think you should describe Ugly a little better, all you say is that he is the ugliest, nastiest,  most repulsive person anyone has ever scene.  Give a few details about him.

I had a feeling Slick was Desmond's dad.

Cooper gettin his head blown off was a surprise, reminded me of the elevator scene in The Departed.

page 66&69, asshole, not ass hole.

Page 67, I don't think Slick is the kind of guy that would say, "we are wasting precious time" I can't see him using the word "Precious"

Page 79, The fork in the eyeball scene.  Nice one.

page 84 Slick says "I'm gonna kill this guy RATHER you're with me or not"  I think you meant "I'm gonna kill this guy WETHER you're with me or not"

I liked how the Hector Penelope thing turned out.  That was pretty neat, she was a bit of a bitch eh.

The shoot out and the end was well done, maybe a little over the top, but it worked for the most part.

I don't think any of the dream sequences are needed, I think the story moves well enough without them.

The dialogue worked for the most part as well, but it did seem to drag on in certain spots, like the car scene right before the diner scene, and even in the diner, it went on a little long.

Slick was an interesting character, I probably liked him the most, Desmond was cool for the most part, Penelope was a twat, I had a feeling she wAs screwing Hector over.

all in all it was a good read, it had some nice action, I just think it a little dialogue trimming would help it out a lot.

Anyways good work




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TAnthony
Posted: February 12th, 2007, 9:36pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the great review, man. One question---

SPOILERS-----------------------




I had a feeling Slick was Desmond's dad.


Awww really? When did you start getting that feeling?


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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Scoob
Posted: June 8th, 2007, 3:53pm Report to Moderator
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Down And Dirty

Hi Tyler, really enjoyed Loud And Nasty even though it did have it's faults it was a quick and entertaining read and as said, was fun.
So as part of our exchange, here is my review of Down And Dirty - I will write down what I think as I go thorugh it and hopefully point out some decent points that may help you in any future rewrites.

P2: I might be a little over critical of this but Cooper's responce to the guys mocking him about looking about to cry is funny but it makes Cooper look like a baby.

P3: Hector did a good job in telling us Slick's history in his dialouge. Although it does read a little maybe too much like you're own personal way of writing it was a good way of describing a character's traits early on and setting scene.

P4: Good stuff. I like it so far, it's well paced, written well enough and it's fun. The fact we don't know who got shot builds up an interesting story.

P7: Jacky complaining was quite amusing.

P12: Des and Cooper's chat is as good as it needs to be. I think it could be better but maybe I'm being harsh. We get some character develpment done and you introduce us to these two characrters here which is what you aimed for and you achieved it.

P17: This is definitly a lot more violent so far than the original which I think is a good thing as it was one of the things that I felt lacked. It maybe didnt have the aggresion needed, but this one seems to be not shy from it.

P23: Ugly - Got to love the way you described him. Page 23, it's a quick read so far. I'm expecting the ish to hit the fan sooner or later but it's flowing well and easy.

P27: So far it's enjoyable as a funny, violent story. I do think, so far, it's better than Loud & Nasty but I'm still waiting for the story to get going. I know it will as we approach the end of Act 1.

P31: Well, it's revelaed that Slick is Desmonds father. Cant say I was stunned or really felt shocked by this, it seemed convenient that this homeless guy that was befreinded by a guy who took him in ( out of a kindness yet to be seen elsewhere so far) ends up being friends with his father. It does reek a little of "too convenient". It's a nice angle and  could work but I really think you might need to build something more up to this.
My only other problem so far, is the dialouge. It's the ammount of questions asked. On almost every other page so far, the conversations have consisted of a Q & A dialouge.
It's fine, it explains things and it does develop characters to an extent, but maybe it would be better if you gave each character more range.

P40: It's a good little twist in getting us back to the begining so soon. I did like how you put this back as I was expecting it to be right at the end.

P42: Surprised Cooper got killed. His death sounds cool but maybe could be described a little better. Maybe just trim it, or cut the "snaps the head back" bit.

P49: I know Benito must be shocked at the what he has just seen but does he really need to vomit? It kinda takes away the well written scene you had and just makes it slightly comical in a weird way. I think if he was just shocked, really shocked it would compliment the scene better. It's only a small thing but I just think it a little unnessecary to have that in there. Up to now its enjoyable, as in the original you are using a lot of flashbacks and I dont have a problem with them. Its only a bit tiresome when you feel the story is kicking up a gear only to end up changing pace with a flashback.

P50: Slick's demand to Gregory made me laugh!

P61: I think you could change how Desmond and Slick find the camry - it's too much of a convenience they just happened to be on the same highway at the same time within reach of each other. And wouldnt they have dumped the camry if it had bullet shots ridden in it? Maybe not and that can be forgiven but I have trouble finding this scene realistic.  ( Although having checked again, it is a possibility if they live in the same area.)

P67: Nice bit here when Hector finds that the gun jams, going back to when Desmond said that they were liable to do so!

Im on page 70 and will drop the rest of the review shortly.



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Scoob
Posted: June 8th, 2007, 6:40pm Report to Moderator
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Continued:

P70: I've noticed that the second part of the second act definitly is more humourous - the dialouge between Slick and Desmond is good but it seems that Desmond has changed quite a lot from the guy he was at the start.

77-79: I think you wrote the scene with Hector and Ugly and his goons well, with some suspense when he was underwater. But, I don't get how Penelope comes to his rescue. I'm hoping this is explained in a flashback a little later as I'm confused at the moment.

89: I think Penelope betraying Hector was a little obvious but it works fine. Thing is, if she is as cold hearted as she acted in killing Hector then why did she not kill Ugly before? Im sure she would have had plenty of chances with him being all over her. A perfect oppotunity would be on the flashback on Page 91 where she knocks him down - she could have killed him then, taken the money and gone off. She may not have wanted his murder on her hands and someone to set up, but then you have her kill Hector so that might be something you could look at - if this is how it plays out.

100: Slick's last words seem a little out of character. I mean he's been rampant, and cold throughout even at the last he had no remorse. It seems a little forced.

And to the end, which was a good finish setting up a possible third.

All in all, I liked moments and had some problems with others. It was a quick read at the start, things began to bog down a little after Slick was revelaed to be Desmond's father and things just kind of "happened". I have no real problem with this but it got a little tiresome at some stages where these people just killed and killed and apart from the odd dialouge here or there, no one really cared too much. That itself is fine and probably what you was aiming at - it's a gangsta story and it pretends to be nothing else. I just think it lacked a certain character that would lead the show. Desmond is probably the lead but he changes so quick from how he was in the opening 30 pages that it's hard to really take him seriously at times.

There is a cartoonish, humourous vibe around the whole thing. I mean it works in places and your dialouge is funny when you use it right. It helps the story move on at a pace which never really lags which is a good thing. I think if you maybe trim or alter some pieces of dialouge, especially the first act where there seems a lot of Q&As being asked and in a repetitive kind of way. The characters at times dont stand out as individuals and its hard to tell one from another.
This did sort itself out when there were less characters to deal with such as Slick and Desmond, who had a good partnership going. It's probably not what you wanted to do with it but if you maybe made them have some more development or emotion about events it might help it further.

Penelope, I still would like to know how she knew where Hector was when she rescued him and how she actually managed to do that. Regarding her aim of getting Ugly's money, her motive is fine but the way she went around it seemed more complicated then it should have been. It just didnt really make sense. Plus knowing her man was always boasting about being a killer, if she told him about the money Ugly had stored, then maybe he would have been in on doing the job himself anyway. She could then of always knocked Hector off ( in a murderous way!) at her discretion and taken the loot.

You're writing is as good as it was in Loud & Nasty, well probably better this time around. You're really good at keeping it basic and at a fast pace which I think is great. I cant really knock you for that at all. The only thing I could say that might help is to work on dialouge and perhaps some modifications to some of the plot lines. Perhaps some character development on some of the surrounding cast but I guess that's all down to dialouge anyway.

I hope my review has helped in some way, Tyler. I think you have a good, violent and darkly comical idea that is here. It just needs some ironing out.

All the best



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TAnthony
Posted: June 18th, 2007, 6:57pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Scoob,

Thanks for the review. You brought up some really great points. I also think it starts off pretty good and then kinda goes downhill from there.

Thanks!


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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