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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Action/Adventure Scripts  ›  Down and Dirty Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: August 22nd, 2006, 8:35pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Down and Dirty by Tyler Hawkins (Tanthony) - Action - An aging gangster and his buddy go on a manhunt to kill the person who murdered their friend. Sequel to Loud and Nasty. 104 pages - pdf, format


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-------------
You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
- Wayne Gretzky

Revision History (1 edits)
Don  -  December 26th, 2006, 6:37pm
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Steve-Dave
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I thought the first was very loud...AND nasty, so I thought I'd see how down and dirty this one got. I give you major props right off the bat just for the names alone.  Here's my review.

Cool how story centers around Slick. Slick was probably my favorite character from the first, don't ask me why.

typo pg 1 - Hector is (AN) Hispanic male.

I think the hand that Hector beats Slick with shoulf be just alittle bit better than Slick's hand, as he says "See, I know you too well Slick", but he did have a royal flush, which means he would've beat anybody, that doesn't really demonstrate his calling of Slick's bluff.

typo pg 7 - Desmond - says pyshco, should be psycho.

typo pg 8 - cooper - "why'd DO ask that"?

typo pg 10 - Desmond - "Three years in the PIN"

bottom pg 10 - put EXT - ROOM when it should be INT.

typo top pg 12 - slick - "I don't give a fuck who YOU'RE daddy is"

pg 13 -  Why does Desmond dream about Hector before he even meets him?

typo pg 14 - Slick - "We THROUGH it in the river"

typo pg 15 - slick - "just some ADIVE"

typo pg 19 - Desmond - "What so great about this guy?"

typo pg 29 - Desmond - "I'M don't know"

typo pg 46 - Slick - "adress"

typo pg 46 - Hector - "What IS he doesn't even show up at the address"

the scene on pg 47 should be written better. It confused me.

pg 48 - description typo - "he's barely watches it"

top pg 49 - description typo - "Penelope gets down on HERE knees"

Arguments of them trying to find out the identity of someone gets a little trite. I think it's too much filler taking up space. In the situation with Penelope, why would she ask Hector to come so urgently and then not want to tell him Ugly's identity?

I think lil timmy should speak more dorogatory rather than just saying a black and a mexican, as they are being set up as the antagonists, and they killed Joey.

typo pg 62 - Slick - "I'm not HUNRY"

Two shots hitting exactly two light bulbs seems a little coincidental. I'd just do one light bulb and it goes black. Otherwise, I liked the pitch black room scene.

These guys are really good at hitting tires while driving. I think you can eliminate Slick's flashback driving on pg 74.

typo pg 81 - Penelpe - "That's WANT you get, bitch"

typo pg 91 - disappearing not dissapearing

typo pg 92 - "Big Tommy tries to GRABS"

Your influences come through a lot in your writing. I'd say probably a little too much. In the first, Luther had a real Clint Eastwood feel, not in this one, but Tarantino and Scorsese definitely have a strong presence in both, Tarantino especially in this one. I'm a big fan of Tarantino and Scorsese too, and I spotted a lot of similar lines, ie I'm gonna take a dump for example. There were others too, but I can't remember all. I'd try to eliminate things like this, and try to form more of your own voice.

All in all though, I thought this was a pretty good story. I liked Desmond and Slick's story. I think I like the first a little better. Structure was a lot better. Not any rambling or repeating yourself. good job.


"Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd" - George Carlin
"I have to sign before you shoot me?" - Navin Johnson
"It'll take time to restore chaos" - George W. Bush
"Harry, I love you!" - Ben Affleck
"What are you looking at, sugar t*ts?" - The man without a face
"Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." - Exodus 31:15
"No one ever expects The Spanish Inquisition!" - The Spanish Inquisition
"Matt Damon" - Matt Damon
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TAnthony
Posted: August 24th, 2006, 5:02pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks, I need a lot of help with this one.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS-------------------------

Wow thanks for catching all those typos! I don't even know how I missed some of those.

-the scene on pg 47 should be written better. It confused me.

How so? Did I do something wrong with the intercuts?

-Your influences come through a lot in your writing. I'd say probably a little too much. In the first, Luther had a real Clint Eastwood feel, not in this one, but Tarantino and Scorsese definitely have a strong presence in both, Tarantino especially in this one. I'm a big fan of Tarantino and Scorsese too, and I spotted a lot of similar lines, ie I'm gonna take a dump for example. There were others too, but I can't remember all. I'd try to eliminate things like this, and try to form more of your own voice.

Yeah, I guess this is a pretty big problem for me, because I don't even realize that the script seems a lot like Tarantino & Scorsese. I'm influenced a lot and I don't even realize when I do it or where I did it in the script. So if you remember where some more of the instances are please try to help me out.

Did you have any other comments about the story? I'm getting a few complaints about Hector and Penelope's little sub-plot. What did you think about that?

Thanks sry, you've been extremely helpful!


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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Steve-Dave
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The scene on pg 47, I went back and read it and it was fine. That was my fault, sorry. I must've read it wrong.

and with Tarantino and Scorsese, it's just a lot of little things. like pg 14, Hector asks stop freaking out on us. Vincent Vega said that in Pulp Fiction. The toothpick nickname in the first was reservoir dogs, Cassandra in the first I think was mocking Tucker in a way that reminded me of when Brdget Fonda Was mocking Robert DeNiro in the parking lot in Jackie Brown, The part in the card game where Hector said that if he has a good hand he itches his nose, reminded me of Christopher Walken in the "pantimime" scene with Dennis Hopper in True Romance. Desmond moving around in the trunk was out of Goodfellas, and moving him a little distance in the trunk before whacking him reminds me of Jackie Brown. A guy showing up with a greasy Mohawk (I bet influenced by Taxi Driver) There's a lot of little similarities that I think only big fans of Tarantino and Scorsese would catch. There's more sprinkled throughout both screenplays that I would have to re-read both of them to catch all of them. Maybe it's not that big a deal, but if you love Tarantino and Scorsese as much as I, it gets distracting sometimes. 'Cuz one or two is no big deal, but when you have THAT many little similarities all bunched up together, then it kinda starts to snowball, then the reader might try to deliberately look for things, and say "oh, that's like True Romance, or that's like Reservoir Dogs" you know what I mean? Maybe I'm just being anal and it's not that big a deal, but I'm just saying you should try to forge your own groove. 'cuz do you wanna be the next Tarantino, or Tyler Hawkins?

Hector and Penelope, I thought was the weakest part of the story. I liked Desmond and Slick and Cooper's story, but thought Hector and penelope could have been better than what it was. It just wasn't as interesting. I think there should be more of a story and motivation for penelope and Ugly besides just going to look at his money. I just didn't know how to feel about their story, and can't really put my finger on why it wasn't as good. I just think it should be more interesting. Like maybe she does sleep with Ugly for his money, and just more twists and turns, you know. Maybe something like that. I think she should play Hector a little more too. Maybe eliminate the flashback portion, and trying to pull one over on us, and just show everything that happened to penelope straight up, rather then showing us later in the flashback. I think it would be a lot more powerful if we know how she is trying to play Hector the WHOLE time, and how conniving she really is, even though Hectoer doesn't. But all of this is just my two cents. Take it or leave it. Good luck.


"Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd" - George Carlin
"I have to sign before you shoot me?" - Navin Johnson
"It'll take time to restore chaos" - George W. Bush
"Harry, I love you!" - Ben Affleck
"What are you looking at, sugar t*ts?" - The man without a face
"Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." - Exodus 31:15
"No one ever expects The Spanish Inquisition!" - The Spanish Inquisition
"Matt Damon" - Matt Damon
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tonkatough
Posted: September 15th, 2006, 8:43am Report to Moderator
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I was browsing through the lists of diffrent genres, looking for a script I could read in exchange for mine when "Jumping Jimmy The Cricket!" I stumbled across a sequel to Loud & Nasty. I loved that script and I didn't even know there was a sequel.

Tyler this script is awsome! Enjoyed as much as I enjoyed Loud & nasty.

I was so immersed in the story and characters that I didn't notice any mistakes at all.

You are very skilled at plot. Feeding little bits of info a piece at a time to keep reader hooked and turning pages. Very well done. The way the story unfolded was fascinating and enjoyable to read.

I had no idea who Desmond's father was. It was a total supirise when it was revealed.

Round about page 39 I noticed the scene was identical to hook. How did you do this? Did you plan it all along or did you copy and paste the scene at begining of the script as an after thought?  

Desmond's gun fascination was cool, a great little personality trait to flesh out the character. nice touch.

Loved the part where Hector has the gun jam and it is linked to Desmond's criticisim Desert eagle ealry on in script. Funny stuff. Is this little trick an example of a payoff? I hear the word Payoff mentioned a lot but don't fully understand it.

The ending with Desmond and Slick was a bit a of bummer. You didn't have to do that. It spoilt the script and felt like more of a cop out than a conclusion. That is one thing I would change. You need a stronger resolution between father and son.

Once again, you have the female as the outstanding character in your story. Penelope was the best. My favourite. Her betrayal rocked. I love your female characters and would like to see you have a female lead in any future script you do.

great stuff. solid script. look forward to your next one.


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TAnthony
Posted: September 18th, 2006, 8:11pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks Tonkatough! I'm glad you liked this one just as much as the first, because I wasn't too sure about it. About your criticism of the ending - I'll have to think about it some more.


Quoted from tonkatough
Round about page 39 I noticed the scene was identical to hook. How did you do this? Did you plan it all along or did you copy and paste the scene at begining of the script as an after thought?


I planned it all along. I wrote the opening scene the way it is and put the two days later super. When I got to the point in the script where I wanted to put it in again I just copied and pasted it from the beginning.


Quoted from tonkatough
Loved the part where Hector has the gun jam and it is linked to Desmond's criticisim Desert eagle ealry on in script. Funny stuff. Is this little trick an example of a payoff? I hear the word Payoff mentioned a lot but don't fully understand it.


Yeah that was an example of a setup and a pay off. I set it up by having Desmond foreshadow it jamming, then later in the script it jammed.


Quoted from tonkatough
The ending with Desmond and Slick was a bit a of bummer. You didn't have to do that. It spoilt the script and felt like more of a cop out than a conclusion. That is one thing I would change. You need a stronger resolution between father and son.


You may be right about this, but I'm not sure about letting these very bad men walk away scotch free in the end. I want them to pay the price.


Quoted from tonkatough
Once again, you have the female as the outstanding character in your story. Penelope was the best. My favourite. Her betrayal rocked. I love your female characters and would like to see you have a female lead in any future script you do.


Thanks. It's cool you say that because Penelope is the lead in the third and last installment of the series.

Thanks again Tonkatough.


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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Steve-Dave
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Quoted from TAnthony
Thanks. It's cool you say that because Penelope is the lead in the third and last installment of the series.


COOL! Are you writing it now, or will that be somewhere further down the road? I think Penelope would make a pretty bad ass lead.



"Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd" - George Carlin
"I have to sign before you shoot me?" - Navin Johnson
"It'll take time to restore chaos" - George W. Bush
"Harry, I love you!" - Ben Affleck
"What are you looking at, sugar t*ts?" - The man without a face
"Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." - Exodus 31:15
"No one ever expects The Spanish Inquisition!" - The Spanish Inquisition
"Matt Damon" - Matt Damon
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tonkatough
Posted: September 19th, 2006, 5:41am Report to Moderator
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The perils of Penelope. Oh God yes! I'll read that.  


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Higgonaitor
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"HECTOR (CONT'D)
Where is she? What did you do to
her? I want to know what you did
with her ass hole!"

A comma makes a big difference here. I'm almost done, just hought I 'd point that out So I wouldnt forget.  Page 69.


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Higgonaitor
Posted: September 26th, 2006, 9:12pm Report to Moderator
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SPOILERS!

Hey TA,
This was a very powerful script.  I definetely got a "The Pearl" Vibe from it which is great because Steinbeck is a genius and that bnook definetely is a shocking look on the power of greed, and so, I thought, was your script, but you took it one step further by adding in revenge.

It was risky to have all of your characters die, but it definetely worked for you, for as I said this script ended up being very powerful, especially with the death of Desmond.

I do however, have a few criticisms:

Parts of the dialogue struck me as kind of cheesy, or unreal.  For example, when Cooper asks Desmond to stay with him, Desmond seemed a bit to argumentative, and they have what seems like a playful banter going already.  The emotions I think that would really be there, are skepticism, and then gratitude, or something along those lines.  Then a little of Slicks dialogue seemed out of character, but thats a little more undestandable, because he was dieing and all.

You Flash back and show us scenes we've already seen.  While this can be powerful in some scripts, and you script was powerful, I did not think your flashbacks were (Don't confuse this with the dream sequence, that worked out great IMO).  Your flashback at the end did not work for me at all.  Perhaps instead, do not actually show us the scene, but let us hear the scene as a voice over as big and lil timmy throw desmond into the river, I think that would work much better for you.  As for coopers death flash back, perhaps do it from a different point of view, maybe Benitos, so we don't have to see\read that entire scene over again (That's too final destinationy).  Penelopes was fine, it was a short enough scene to replay.

Speaking of which, The whole Penelope sub-plot was just great.  I was definetely not suspecting it, but it works well (but you do use the line "Stop, you're hurting me ay too many times in this script.  I believe Desmond Say's it once, Penelope two or three times, and Coopers wife once or twice.  People can say other things when they are being hurt.)

Yeah, the script was really good (powerful, for like the third time).  I really recommend ending it the way I said, if you're a bit confused on that, feel free to ask me.  BTW, I loved how you had three plots that all worked together to reach a final epiphanic moment.


NEW!Everquenching Lemonade:Thirsty for a comedy short?
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TAnthony
Posted: September 26th, 2006, 9:53pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Higgonaitor
"HECTOR (CONT'D)
Where is she? What did you do to
her? I want to know what you did
with her a** hole!"

A comma makes a big difference here. I'm almost done, just hought I 'd point that out So I wouldnt forget.  Page 69. .
  

I'm confused what you mean here.


Quoted from Higgonaitor

You Flash back and show us scenes we've already seen.  While this can be powerful in some scripts, and you script was powerful, I did not think your flashbacks were (Don't confuse this with the dream sequence, that worked out great IMO).  Your flashback at the end did not work for me at all.  Perhaps instead, do not actually show us the scene, but let us hear the scene as a voice over as big and lil timmy throw desmond into the river, I think that would work much better for you.  As for coopers death flash back, perhaps do it from a different point of view, maybe Benitos, so we don't have to see\read that entire scene over again (That's too final destinationy).  Penelopes was fine, it was a short enough scene to replay.
  

That's an awesome idea I'm going to do that. Thanks!


Quoted from Higgonaitor
This was a very powerful script.
  

lol. Thanks.

Thanks for the review Higgonaitor!



"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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Higgonaitor
Posted: September 27th, 2006, 9:51am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from TAnthony
  

I'm confused what you mean here.


If you don't have a comma there, it looks like hector wants to know what Ugly did with Penelopes asshole, rather than wanting to know what ugly, that asshoe, did with Penelope.


NEW!Everquenching Lemonade:Thirsty for a comedy short?
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TAnthony
Posted: September 27th, 2006, 3:36pm Report to Moderator
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LOL thanks for pointing that out for me can't believe I missed that.


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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GM
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SPOILERS!

Hey TAnthony. Sorry it took long to read, but I finished it today. It's a really good story with twists and turns that I didn't see coming and which I also disliked(in a good sense) because it will not make me forget this script too easily. Nevertheless, you cut the scenes very abrudbtly in the beginning to another scene, but as the story progresses it gets better. I'm not too well knowledeged about formatting but the dreams(which were very good) needed to occur in a place since you have INT. Of course, you are well aware of going back and examining errors and other problems you see that afflicts with the story. In addition, try to be more speciifc with the scene headings since most were very vague. Other than that, I enjoyed it very much. I'll see if I could read the first script that this sequel is based on.

Gabriel  
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TAnthony
Posted: October 9th, 2006, 1:32pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for your comments Mr. Ripley, very helpful. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks.


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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dresseme
Posted: October 12th, 2006, 11:15am Report to Moderator
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I'm enjoying the read so far. I'm up to about page 30.  The story isn't dragging and I'm interested to see where it goes.  However, I have some criticisms...but they're just my own lil' nitpicks:

1) I question Cooper's motivations for bringing a random guy in.  I'm hoping that this will pay off and that he did it for a reason, but I find it hard to believe someone would just bring someone else in off of the street.

2) Lil' Tommy and Big Tommy are a little too cliche of gangster names.  Try and thinking of something new and unique.

That's pretty much it.  I can't really comment on other stuff until I read it as a whole, but I'll get back to that later.  I'm a fast reader, so the full review should be up soon.
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dresseme
Posted: October 12th, 2006, 12:23pm Report to Moderator
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Ok, done!  Told you I read fast.  Onto my review...


Overall, an enjoyable read.  It reminded me a lot of Running Scared...not sure why, maybe I just pictured it in that type of style.  

The torture scenes....as yes, the torture scenes.  Now, maybe this is just me, but when I see a torture scene in a movie I like it to be either violent or really unique...or even both if you can.  When they're torturing Greg, for instance, I would have had Slick grab something really unique that would make a shiver run up the audience's spine as they think "Man, I would hate it if someone worked me over with that."  THOSE type of torture scenes are the ones that really stick out in my mind. Same goes for when Timothy was torturing Desmond near the end.  You don't want to have too many unique torture scenes (because not everyone thinks that much when they're beating the shit out of someone), but one couldn't hurt.  I think the first (with Slick) would be better to portray the true type of psycho he is.

Make Greg's gun more distinct.  I don't care how much of a gun expert you are, I don't think you could tell that it's the same gun (even if the nose of the gun is messed up)  I'd imagine the gunman stood a distance away from them, and I think it'd make more sense if he had a specialized finish/handle on it or something.

p. 45 "You're going to tell me..."  I really like this line.

When did the tire get fixed on the car after the shootout?  Perhaps you could have a scene at a repair shop with an angered back and forth between Slick and Desmond.

Finally, I don't know how I feel about Desmond firing in the end.  I think it would have made more sense for Slick to interupt his questioning by just shooting the guy.  The way it is, there are no real likable characters in the story.  I mean, yeah Desmond is likable, but I think it would be hard to like him after he blows someone away as they are begging for their life.

Other than that, like I said, I enjoyed the read. A few spelling/grammar errors here and the
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TAnthony
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Quoted from dresseme
1) I question Cooper's motivations for bringing a random guy in.  I'm hoping that this will pay off and that he did it for a reason, but I find it hard to believe someone would just bring someone else in off of the street..


I probably should have made a bigger point out of this, but Cooper let him come into his home, because he's lonely and misses his wife.


Quoted from dresseme
Make Greg's gun more distinct.  I don't care how much of a gun expert you are, I don't think you could tell that it's the same gun (even if the nose of the gun is messed up)  I'd imagine the gunman stood a distance away from them, and I think it'd make more sense if he had a specialized finish/handle on it or something.


Oh thanks! I like that specialized handle idea.


Quoted from dresseme

When did the tire get fixed on the car after the shootout?  Perhaps you could have a scene at a repair shop with an angered back and forth between Slick and Desmond..


Oh yeah, thanks again I never even thought about that.

I'm glad you enjoyed the read. And thanks again for all those awesome ideas. I'm going to start your script today.

Thanks.



"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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DOM
Posted: October 15th, 2006, 11:37am Report to Moderator
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Sorry about gibing a crap review, but the only thing I found wrong with it was a few spelling mistakes. Great story, grat plot, great script. I could totally see this as a movie.
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medstudent
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TAnthony,

Without reading the pre-quel to this I still felt I wasn't out of touch with the characters. The story stood on its own. Good for that.

You have a good story here. Albeit a little complicated at times, I think you held it together well. I like the idea of posing a "dramatic question" in the first few pages. This sets the story up nicely. It made me want to keep reading. The only problem I saw with this was the scene you chose happened too quickly after the initial introduction. I would have use one of the very last scenes for this. Using it this way will always leave the reader with suspense. Wanting to know when and why the initial scene happens. A great use of this is in American Beauty. A few sentences of dialogue set the entire story up by indicating that the main character was going to get killed. So, besides the story being a great one besides this, it kept me wondering what the hell was going to happen to this guy and who was going to do it. If he would have been killed in the middle of the movie it would have ruined that part of the suspense.

Your plot and action sequences were nicely done. Good job. You certainly have a knack for setting things up where and when they should be. Plot points in the right spots...action where it was supposed to be...dramatic events appropriately placed. Good job with this. I'm finding this part of screenwriting to be one of the most difficult, technically speaking. I liked the feel of the story as a whole.

One thing I found a little disappointing or misleading was Cooper. You made it appear as though he was going to be your protagonist from the beginning. Yet, you changed it(sort of) during the first half. I didn't see Slick or Desmond being the protagonists in the beginning.

I didn't see any real character arcs from your protagonists. No redemption for any of them in the end. Slick didn't turn out to be the father Desmond was looking for and I'm not too sure Desmond found who he was either. Slick's attitude only changed when he was falling headfirst in the grass. Too late. I think this is the only real thing missing in the story.

Here are some notes I took while reading:
Pg 2: "Peak" should be "Peek"
Pg 5: Complete blackness with blood splatter? How do you see that?
Pg 6: "Day" should be "Say"?
Pg 14: "Through" should be "Threw"
Pg 29: "I'm don't even know." Did you mean, "I don't even know."?
Pg 46 "...long as road trip..." Did you mean, "...long ass road trip..."?

The scene with Penelope and Ugly(2nd one) needs something more. Some transitory action or dialogue before he shows her the money again. Felt rushed.

Car/Chase scene: Need less dialogue here. I'm trying to imagine gunfire, tires exploding, mirrors being ripped off and all the characters carrying on conversations. Less in better here.

Pg 60: "...dropping he and his gun..." Did you mean, "...dropping him and his gun..."?

Pg 61:         HECTOR
     Fucking kid was right.   (Get rid of this)

Pg 63: That was a quick dump!

Pg 67:         SLICK
     "He's my son."    (Get rid of this)

Is Desmond having these dreams?

Pg 74:         DESMOND
      "...you gotta away from thos mobsters?"   Did you mean, "...you got away from those mobsters?"

Pg 81: Why would Penelope kill Hector? She could just stay with him and use him.

Pg 83: I would rather Penelope had slept with Ugly willingly instead of whipping his ass.

Pg 90: Slick's dialogue about his wound should be cut.


Great job. Keep up the good work.

Joseph



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TAnthony
Posted: November 12th, 2006, 6:38pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the review medstudent, very helpful.


Quoted from medstudent

You have a good story here. Albeit a little complicated at times, I think you held it together well. I like the idea of posing a "dramatic question" in the first few pages. This sets the story up nicely. It made me want to keep reading. The only problem I saw with this was the scene you chose happened too quickly after the initial introduction. I would have use one of the very last scenes for this. Using it this way will always leave the reader with suspense. Wanting to know when and why the initial scene happens.


I thought about this, but I thought the script had enough suspense going for it after the scene happened again. I'll have to think about it some more.


Quoted from medstudent
One thing I found a little disappointing or misleading was Cooper. You made it appear as though he was going to be your protagonist from the beginning. Yet, you changed it(sort of) during the first half. I didn't see Slick or Desmond being the protagonists in the beginning.


People tend to say that a lot about some of my scripts and I kind of like that in my stories, the fact that you think someone's the main character and then before you know it they're dead.


Quoted from medstudent
I didn't see any real character arcs from your protagonists. No redemption for any of them in the end. Slick didn't turn out to be the father Desmond was looking for and I'm not too sure Desmond found who he was either. Slick's attitude only changed when he was falling headfirst in the grass. Too late. I think this is the only real thing missing in the story.


That's what I wanted. The fact Slick's attitude changed too late. But I see what you're saying, I'll try to change that.


Quoted from medstudent

Pg 61:         HECTOR
     Fucking kid was right.   (Get rid of this)


Why, what was wrong with that line?


Quoted from medstudent

Pg 67:         SLICK
     "He's my son."    (Get rid of this)


What was wrong with that?

Quoted from medstudent

Is Desmond having these dreams?)


Yeah he is, I'll try to make a better point of that.

Thanks for the review, this should really aid in my re-write.

Thanks.





"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

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medstudent
Posted: November 13th, 2006, 2:17pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
I thought about this, but I thought the script had enough suspense going for it after the scene happened again. I'll have to think about it some more.


Yes, but this would give it that something "extra". American Beauty could have still been a wonderful movie even without the inital carrot. But, wasn't it great to have that beginning!

About the proposed cuts to the dialogue...

You ever get on that water slide that from the top looks like its going to be a blast...fast and fun. On the way down, everything is going as planned...then you hit that spot where the seams weren't quite put together well, too much seam putty used and it slows down the ride a bit...gives you a red mark...

That's how those pieces of dialogue felt. Difficult to explain.


Quoted Text
That's what I wanted. The fact Slick's attitude changed too late. But I see what you're saying, I'll try to change that.


I know what you were going for...and I like that. Every french movie has those types of down endings. That's real life. But, if you want it to be more effective, turn your characters towards redemtion...and just as it seems like everything is going to turn out...BAM! Life happens. Give them a scene or two that shows that other side...

Anyways, take these suggestions with a grain of salt. As you know, I have a lot of work to do myself.

Joseph



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JD_OK
Posted: November 16th, 2006, 1:18am Report to Moderator
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I always stuff out which things I find as I go, that are unnecessary/errors.  But 1st advice I give is to move all verbs (THAT CAN be) into ACTIVE verbs.

Example. "Four men sit around a table playing cards"

Active *"Four men play cards around a table."

     "He's a young looking black man with close cut"
Active*"Young black man with close cut"  Where you can't loose the ING, lose the word.;0)

Active sentences read better, and make shorter.

Page one.

Hector turns to Slick <- -

                    Hector
               (to slick) <- -

One of those <-- needs to go, no need to repeat the info. I already see a few grammar problems, which isn�t big deal for me. But if you want your script to be taken seriously ( to be sold) gotta fix those. I'll show you this example.

"One bullet tears his ear off the other goes through his forehead snapping his head back."

Should read/active*
"One bullet tears his ear off. The other goes through his forehead, which snaps his head back."

Another thing, who is shot, Cooper? since that sentence is seperate from a connecting sentence, refer to who has been shot.

Also, CAPITALIZE only first character intro. No need to cap sound effects. My professional consulant ( cost me big bucks) told me, that is old school. It is not done anymore.

That enough from that stuff. Im going to read read now, and not look at things, but I will remember after I'm done what I noticed. (thanks about the flash backs, I did have some missing)

Page six desmond.
"What, what'd you just day?" mean say?

You reference "two men or The man" Which you should just say who they are instead, f they have been introduced.

page11

Joey says
"Do you know who my brothers are? lil tommy and big tommy?"

Slick
"I dont give a f*** who you're daddy is." This line could be interpetted wrong. i would add "Look,I dont even give a f*** who you're daddy is..." to say, he doesnt care about the brothers if that is what you are implying in that reply.


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!



Revision History (6 edits; 1 reasons shown)
JD_OK  -  December 31st, 2006, 5:26pm
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JD_OK
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Well, I know you playing think Im just a hating or something, but the STORY DID NOT WORK for me in many ways.

I read everything, and around page 51 or 60, i wanted to stop. but I can't very well completely speak without reading everything.

Format
Spelling, gramar error everywhere. I noiticed several paragraphs that only had ONE period through out it. Which turns into a run-on sentence. You state a sentence as aquestion yet you end it with "!", instead of "?!"

In you action scenes, When things happen, you have it all jumbled up together.

You switch back and forth, several times from scenes without indictaing INT. and EXT. Now I understand what you mean, but to be presented in professional form, what you have will not do.

You have O.S. when they should be V.O.
O.S. = Off screen, you dont see the person speaking, but they are in the same INT as who they are communicating with.

Missing FADE IN
Including when "credits" and title of the movie roll is a no no.

When you do, your flash backs, You repeat the ENTIRE SEQUENCE. The reader has already read this, and really doesnt need to fully see it again. You should come back to the like section before your scene cut off from before.

Plot

You set things up, just for the CONVIENCE sake of the plot. Alot of it seems so unreal/natural

Cooper taking in a strange person off the streets, and You just tell us he is nice guy? WHat makes us believe that? Maybe if smeone in his fam was homeless or something to make him feel for homeless.

Slick which just so happens to be Coopers friend.

Page 17 I knew right then slick was his father.

Hector and pene, if you took out this subplot.. its would not be noticed. It really doesnt push the main trunk of you story forward.

ugly, inviting random girl to see a surprise? And The girl actually goes? Then she just looks at money? That again just happens for the sake of your story... it is unreal.

Now lets talk about Slick, WHY is he SOO bent for revenge after they find out. It was just pay back for him killing his wife? Yea slick was being slick in doing so, but desmond talks to slick about being a bad guy blah blah, then you have desmond talkin about killin someone personally.

Another scene that is forced, when Slick gets back at desmond after tire is shock out.
That was just out of the blue, there is no real reason you present for slick to suddenly get angry. You have slick question him if he shot some1. If Slick is driving, and des is in the front seat. He can see exactly what desmond sees.

Another thhing. You stated earlier that Slick runs ou after the man. The mans speeds off in a ram camry. Slick fires, but hits nothing. Then later, you got him askin what color the car is, THEN, The camry drives past him with bullets hole in it, when you siad he DIDNT hit anything prior.

Why does Slick and Hector, go after joey in the 1st place? Yea money, but they talk about they do this for a living yet after they killl joey, nothing is ever brought up again about Them going after people for money. Seemed likeit just served the purpose for the seem of joey solely.

You have hector underwater, then a sudden rescue from his girl friend?! This felt straight from Sin city, from Miho tar scene.

All your character are one-dimensional. Nothing is learned. They are the same from beging to the end. I felt slick last words were forced ( again for the sake of the story)
to make him seem changed all of the sudden. Desmond is wishy washy from beginning to the end. from wanting to kill someone, to not, but then he does, then he is mad about it.

dialogue

There is alot of stained, unbelievable dialogue. You have they saying things when they shouldnt, examples.

Slick " he's my son"

Why on earth would Slick just say that to the father of joey. Knowing he killed his son.
So what i mean when i say forced? You did that on purpose to that Tim would go after desmond cuz he is Slick's son.

Some of the dialogue is good, some decent.

Cool

Hector, using slicks  deagle and it jamming. Desmond alil trait, that comes into play.

Overall

I like loud and nasty alil more. Had better structure and alot less unreal conviences.
I think need a good rewrite. I liked the general idea, how you did put things together. To me its need a over haul done.

Please dont get me wrong, I wa hestitent on posting what i really thought in fear of you just thinking all I have to say is negative things and not read anything I offer, But i felt only way we can grow is to take in negative critisism, either agree or dont agree with it.

Its just the thoughts of a person pointing out something you might not have noitced.

                                                                                        Good luck.


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!


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TAnthony
Posted: November 18th, 2006, 10:52am Report to Moderator
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Thanks for comments JD_OK, little sooner than I expected.


Quoted from JD_OK
Spelling, gramar error everywhere. I noiticed several paragraphs that only had ONE period through out it. Which turns into a run-on sentence. You state a sentence as aquestion yet you end it with "!", instead of "?!"


Yeah I really need to fix those grammatical errors in the re-write.


Quoted from JD_OK
In you action scenes, When things happen, you have it all jumbled up together.


Can you give me an example?


Quoted from JD_OK
You switch back and forth, several times from scenes without indictaing INT. and EXT. Now I understand what you mean, but to be presented in professional form, what you have will not do.


I think I might know what you're talking about, but can you give me an example?


Quoted from JD_OK
When you do, your flash backs, You repeat the ENTIRE SEQUENCE. The reader has already read this, and really doesnt need to fully see it again. You should come back to the like section before your scene cut off from before.


I'm working on that in the re-write.


Quoted from JD_OK
Cooper taking in a strange person off the streets, and You just tell us he is nice guy? WHat makes us believe that? Maybe if smeone in his fam was homeless or something to make him feel for homeless.


I sort of understand where you're coming from on this, but I think Cooper is just taking a chance here, hoping that this guy will be cool.


Quoted from JD_OK
Slick which just so happens to be Coopers friend.


Huh? Is it too far of a reach for these two men to be friends?


Quoted from JD_OK
Now lets talk about Slick, WHY is he SOO bent for revenge after they find out. It was just pay back for him killing his wife? Yea slick was being slick in doing so, but desmond talks to slick about being a bad guy blah blah, then you have desmond talkin about killin someone personally.


Lol, I have no idea what you're trying to say here.


Quoted from JD_OK
Another scene that is forced, when Slick gets back at desmond after tire is shock out. That was just out of the blue, there is no real reason you present for slick to suddenly get angry. You have slick question him if he shot some1. If Slick is driving, and des is in the front seat. He can see exactly what desmond sees.


You don't think that it was real that when Slick's car got shot up, his tire was shot, and that the people he's chasing after are getting away was a good opportunity for him to get a little upset. I dunno, but I'd be a little upset too. And the other question, I don't think Slick can pay attention to the same things Desmond can, because he's trying to dodge bullets, traffic, and what not. That makes it a little harder.


Quoted from JD_OK
Another thhing. You stated earlier that Slick runs ou after the man. The mans speeds off in a ram camry. Slick fires, but hits nothing. Then later, you got him askin what color the car is, THEN, The camry drives past him with bullets hole in it, when you siad he DIDNT hit anything prior.


Thank you! That was a good plot-hole catch. I'll have to fix that up.


Quoted from JD_OK
Why does Slick and Hector, go after joey in the 1st place? Yea money, but they talk about they do this for a living yet after they killl joey, nothing is ever brought up again about Them going after people for money. Seemed likeit just served the purpose for the seem of joey solely.


I didn't want to show the whole back-story on Joey's situation, because that would be a lot of unneccesary exposition.


Quoted from JD_OK
You have hector underwater, then a sudden rescue from his girl friend?! This felt straight from Sin city, from Miho tar scene.


I didn't even think about Sin City for that scene. The only similarities I can get from the two are that both have women saving men who are trapped in liquid. I think I'm okay with that scene.


Quoted from JD_OK
All your character are one-dimensional. Nothing is learned. They are the same from beging to the end. I felt slick last words were forced ( again for the sake of the story) to make him seem changed all of the sudden. Desmond is wishy washy from beginning to the end. from wanting to kill someone, to not, but then he does, then he is mad about it.


You're probably right about this, but when does Desmond ever really want to kill someone? He never did. In the beginning, Desmond wanted to be with his father, and Slick was kind of iffy on the situation. In the end, Desmond doesn't want to have anything to do with his father, and Slick wants to have everything to do with him, but it's too late. So to say that nothing is learned from beginning to end is false. I do see where you're coming from though, I'll make a better point of this.  


Quoted from JD_OK
Slick " he's my son"

Why on earth would Slick just say that to the father of joey. Knowing he killed his son.
So what i mean when i say forced? You did that on purpose to that Tim would go after desmond cuz he is Slick's son.


Yeah, you're right, I'll have to take that out.


Quoted from JD_OK
Please dont get me wrong, I wa hestitent on posting what i really thought in fear of you just thinking all I have to say is negative things and not read anything I offer, But i felt only way we can grow is to take in negative critisism, either agree or dont agree with it.


Yeah I'm glad you posted what you really thought, negative critiques help the story more than positive ones.

Thanks for the review and are you going to send me the re-write of the script you wanted me to review or should I just wait for it to show up on the site?


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

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JD_OK
Posted: November 18th, 2006, 2:27pm Report to Moderator
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There is quite afew I seen, but here just some that I scrolled to.
top page 56
when cooper chases vicky into bed room ( i rmember that)
middle of page 57. benito, in a mad fury... then you go straight to slick talking.
The dream sequence also, go from knife wiping to car down a high way, without the INT/EXT

Jumbled actions. examples

Bottom of page 85, and page 86.

I forgot to say, I did lke Ugly's character, name to the way he acts. and you did do a good job and describing everything. I can see it what you see because of this. Which is good

And about slick getting angry at desmond, when the tire pops. I meant there is no clear reason for him to take his frustration on demond. Now if desmond accidently shoots their tire own out, then the rest of the anger scene would make sense

Hope these are helpful!

In your rewrite, move everything to active sentence. If you look at professional scripts, most do not have any ING verbs in it.

You will notice this in my revision. Its already updated, just click on link again. Thanks!


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!



Revision History (1 edits)
JD_OK  -  November 18th, 2006, 2:37pm
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mgj
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As you know I read Loud and Nasty so this provided a good basis of comparison from which to do my review.  As I remember you had alot of good ideas thrown into that script but it was too overdrawn and jumbled in spots.  I can say right off the top that this was much tighter.  

Here are a few thoughts as I went:

Page 4 - It's not clear who's being shot.  I'd reference the person being shot by name.

Page 5 - Desmond seems to agree  a little too easily to go off with Cooper.  I know he's homeless but there needs to be more of a trust factor built up.  Personally I'd take my chances on the streets rather than going off with some stranger like that.  Maybe they could strike up a repore over lunch or something, then have Cooper casually suggest that he could crash over at his place.  This would make more sense, especially if, as you mentioned in a previous post, Cooper was lonely and looking for companionship.

Page 13 - You have it right inserting a header for the start of a dream squence.  I'd just insert an additional one for the end.  Avoid any confusion.

Page 28 - *Spoiler* so Slick is Desmond's dad.  This was an effective turn from a surprise point of view.  Quite a coincidense though if they, indeed, just happened into each other's life.  I'd really rethink this.  This goes back as well to Desmond's meeting with Cooper.  Maybe Desmond could be proactive and seek him out on his own.  Slick's identity could still be a surprise.  Perhaps he knows one of them is his kin but isn't sure which one.  Say, for example, he's traced his father's whereabouts to the home but doesn't which one of them is the owner (nor would we in this senario).

Page 70 - Penelope saving Hector from drowning seemed a little too convienient, not to mention heroic on her part.  I'd rather see Hector free himself on his own somehow.

Page 87 - This is sort of a pet peeve of mine.  Slick seems to carry on pretty well after being shot.  This happens a lot in the movies, I know, so take it for what it's worth.  I'd have him at least stagger around and wince a bit.  Every movie establishes a certain logic or reality that we just accept.  In a gritty movie like this, violence has its consequences so we should see that.  

Overall I liked this one quite a bit more than it's predecessor, mainly because it was much tighter.  I also liked the father/son dynamic.  In fact I might focus more of the story on this.  That to me was the most compelling.  Hector's side-bar with the penelope and Ugly, while amusing, didn't really tie in with the main narrative thread you had going.  I'd suggest eliminating this but a better suggestion might be to combine some of the baddies you have in this story.  Really there is no one main villian here.  Ugly was the most amusing or individual anyway.  Some of the others are pretty much interchangable.

The dialog was solid and consistent throughout.  You have a good grasp of the genre.  At times some of the characters felt a bit indistinguishable to me though, especially with all the cussing and swearing.  I think that's why I liked Slick and Desmond's relationship.  It reveals a different side to these characters that we don't normally expect to see.  


"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it." - Albert Einstein
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TAnthony
Posted: December 1st, 2006, 12:48pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for review mgj.


Quoted from mgj
Page 5 - Desmond seems to agree  a little too easily to go off with Cooper.  I know he's homeless but there needs to be more of a trust factor built up.  Personally I'd take my chances on the streets rather than going off with some stranger like that.  Maybe they could strike up a repore over lunch or something, then have Cooper casually suggest that he could crash over at his place.  This would make more sense, especially if, as you mentioned in a previous post, Cooper was lonely and looking for companionship.


Yeah you're right. I like that lunch idea.


Quoted from mgj
Page 87 - This is sort of a pet peeve of mine.  Slick seems to carry on pretty well after being shot.  This happens a lot in the movies, I know, so take it for what it's worth.  I'd have him at least stagger around and wince a bit.  Every movie establishes a certain logic or reality that we just accept.  In a gritty movie like this, violence has its consequences so we should see that.


Somebody else mentioned this to me, I really do need to change that. Thanks.


Quoted from mgj
The dialog was solid and consistent throughout.  You have a good grasp of the genre.  At times some of the characters felt a bit indistinguishable to me though, especially with all the cussing and swearing.  I think that's why I liked Slick and Desmond's relationship.  It reveals a different side to these characters that we don't normally expect to see.


In the next draft, I'll definetly cut some of the cussing down so the characters won't seem just a like.

Thanks for the comments mgj.





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ALIEN MAN
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Tantohy, I just read down and dirty, I loved it so much, the action sequences and the twist at the end with all the dreams and flashbacks SPOILER---------- that came true was really cool. Good job on this one, I like better than loud and nasty


Writing an action movie. EVery other script I was making got deleted and my PC crashed. MY action movie will be completed in about two weeks.
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TAnthony
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Quoted from ALIEN MAN
Tantohy, I just read down and dirty, I loved it so much, the action sequences and the twist at the end with all the dreams and flashbacks SPOILER---------- that came true was really cool. Good job on this one, I like better than loud and nasty


Thanks for the support Alien Man. Glad you liked it.

Thanks.


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

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Dear Tyler,

Here is my review of 'Down and Dirty'.

!!!SPOILERS!!!

The Story.
A guy in a hat kills another guy in a hat. No, seriously, the story is very simple here. Gangsters mess with mobsters, mob wants revenge. Thugs mess with gangsters, gangsters want revenge. And vice versa. While the story doesn't have a whole lot of depth, it's certainly very entertaining and funny. It is fast paced, almost relentless, which makes it a very quick read.

As I mentioned before, the story is missing some depth. I think you missed an opportunity by not exploring more of Slick and Desmond's father-and-son-relationship. Because parenthood seems so out sync with a character like Slick, it could have let to some funny moments.

The Penelope/Hector subplot seems a little bit out of place as it removes the attention from the real plot. Especially the scene where Ugly takes Penelope to his place to show her the money and then just lets her walk out the door. It didn't really fit. Obviously all she wanted was to know where he hid his money, but the scene needs more meat to make it interesting.

The scene where Slick and Hector kills Joey seems a bit strange to me. They both come off as streetwise gangsters and that's why I think it would make more sense if they kill Joey AFTER they find the money - you know, if the money weren't there, all they would have been left would have been a dead body.

The action sequences are very entertaining but sometimes you go a little over the top. Not that I have ever tried it, but to shoot someone in the head from a moving car sounds very difficult, if not impossible. Another scene is where Penelope just happens to dive in after Hector, that smells a bit.

A thing you might wanna look into is the fact that it feels like the characters are always alone. There are no bystanders that get scared or tries to interfere (which is probably wise considering the arsenal these guys a packing). There's a lot of shooting going on but we never hear or see the police.

My overall problem with the story is that most of the events simply...just happen (like Desmond just happens to be in the alley when Cooper is attacked - a friend of his long gone father). There's no real lead up to them (except with Cooper's wife - which was a nice twist) and therefor the story loses some of its integrity. But all of this can easily be corrected.

The Characters.
Cooper, although he's killed early on, is actually the character with the most depth. I felt sorry for him with the break-up and all and was sad to see him go. Good work here.

I would have liked to have known a bit more about Desmond. It seems a little over the top that he wants to kill his father just for walking out on him and his mom. Now, if we had learned that his mom had to work four jobs just to provide for the family or if mom had dated a deadbeat who hit her and Desmond a lot, then that would justify his anger. Written like it is, he simply goes from a nice down-to-earth kinda guy to a psycho from one scene to the other. Desmond also tells Slick that he hasn't killed someone before but when he shoots Anthony he doesn't seem at all affected by the fact he just blew someone's head off. Instead he grabs a burger and has a chat with dad (okay, so it wasn't face to face - but he still killed a human being), that's the reason why I don't find it very believable when he cracks down after killing Benito.

Slick and Hector are written very stereotypical - as they should. It works, although Hector goes from tough guy to sensitive guy a bit too much to my liking. Penelope who steals the show at the end could use a little more depth because I never really cared about her. She's a bit uninteresting.

The Dialog.
I liked the dialog a lot. It is crisp, tight and fast. Sure there's a lot of cussing but I would expect nothing more from the these characters. The language is a bit repetitive at times though, F this, F that. Try to mix it up a bit.

There's a couple of instances that I don't like. When Cooper is banging on the bedroom door and his wife is on the phone with Benito, Benito says he'll come over as soon as he can. That seems like a strange thing to say to the woman you love, especially since he comes over right away. He should have said: 'Baby, I'm on my way'. Also, the argument between Slick and Desmond after the shoot-out in the cars seems a bit forced, it sort of comes out of nowhere. You should build it up a bit slower.

The Writing.
I really like the way you write. You keep it short and to the point. You're descriptive when you need to be and lets dialog run its course. Great work. Many are not crazy about flashbacks but I think you pull it off to perfection. You structured it just right. It reminds me of 'The Godfather' (the book, not the movie). Mario Puzo also used flashbacks a lot and it adds a certain shock value. Again, great work.

Overall.
This is a really entertaining script, I like it a lot. It's a fast read, a real pageturner. But it does need a little work in some places as mentioned above. This is of course just my opinion. Keep up the good work Tyler.


Regards

Robert


Down in the hole / Jesus tries to crack a smile / Beneath another shovel load

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
sniper  -  January 11th, 2007, 4:01pm
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TAnthony
Posted: January 13th, 2007, 6:28pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the great review Sniper, very helpful. I've read your Infestation script and I'm getting to Outbreak.

So thanks again.


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
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Mayhem - Sci-Fi
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Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
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The boy who could fly
Posted: February 12th, 2007, 9:01pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Tyler, just got finished with this one.

This was a nice companion piece to loud and nasty, that one had more of a 70's Charles Bronson "death wish" kind of feel, this one was definitely more tarantinoish.


SPOILERS**********************************************



The opening scene I thought was pretty cool, the card game, the dialogue, it was pretty neat.

I liked how Desomd and Cooper were introduced, the fight with the thugs, but their dialogue after the fact felt kind of off, it just went on a little too long, I think it could be more affective once Cooper asks Desmond if he wants to come over for Desmond just to say "ya", I do not think you need the banter between them.

The Hector, Slick, Joey scene was cool, but I suggest you take out the reservoir dog's reference, that did not work for me.  I did love the eye gouging scene, really gross stuff.

I think they should have also not killed Joey until they got what they were looking for, just in case he was lying or something, kill him after they get the goods.

I think you should describe Ugly a little better, all you say is that he is the ugliest, nastiest,  most repulsive person anyone has ever scene.  Give a few details about him.

I had a feeling Slick was Desmond's dad.

Cooper gettin his head blown off was a surprise, reminded me of the elevator scene in The Departed.

page 66&69, asshole, not ass hole.

Page 67, I don't think Slick is the kind of guy that would say, "we are wasting precious time" I can't see him using the word "Precious"

Page 79, The fork in the eyeball scene.  Nice one.

page 84 Slick says "I'm gonna kill this guy RATHER you're with me or not"  I think you meant "I'm gonna kill this guy WETHER you're with me or not"

I liked how the Hector Penelope thing turned out.  That was pretty neat, she was a bit of a bitch eh.

The shoot out and the end was well done, maybe a little over the top, but it worked for the most part.

I don't think any of the dream sequences are needed, I think the story moves well enough without them.

The dialogue worked for the most part as well, but it did seem to drag on in certain spots, like the car scene right before the diner scene, and even in the diner, it went on a little long.

Slick was an interesting character, I probably liked him the most, Desmond was cool for the most part, Penelope was a twat, I had a feeling she wAs screwing Hector over.

all in all it was a good read, it had some nice action, I just think it a little dialogue trimming would help it out a lot.

Anyways good work




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TAnthony
Posted: February 12th, 2007, 9:36pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the great review, man. One question---

SPOILERS-----------------------




I had a feeling Slick was Desmond's dad.


Awww really? When did you start getting that feeling?


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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Scoob
Posted: June 8th, 2007, 3:53pm Report to Moderator
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Down And Dirty

Hi Tyler, really enjoyed Loud And Nasty even though it did have it's faults it was a quick and entertaining read and as said, was fun.
So as part of our exchange, here is my review of Down And Dirty - I will write down what I think as I go thorugh it and hopefully point out some decent points that may help you in any future rewrites.

P2: I might be a little over critical of this but Cooper's responce to the guys mocking him about looking about to cry is funny but it makes Cooper look like a baby.

P3: Hector did a good job in telling us Slick's history in his dialouge. Although it does read a little maybe too much like you're own personal way of writing it was a good way of describing a character's traits early on and setting scene.

P4: Good stuff. I like it so far, it's well paced, written well enough and it's fun. The fact we don't know who got shot builds up an interesting story.

P7: Jacky complaining was quite amusing.

P12: Des and Cooper's chat is as good as it needs to be. I think it could be better but maybe I'm being harsh. We get some character develpment done and you introduce us to these two characrters here which is what you aimed for and you achieved it.

P17: This is definitly a lot more violent so far than the original which I think is a good thing as it was one of the things that I felt lacked. It maybe didnt have the aggresion needed, but this one seems to be not shy from it.

P23: Ugly - Got to love the way you described him. Page 23, it's a quick read so far. I'm expecting the ish to hit the fan sooner or later but it's flowing well and easy.

P27: So far it's enjoyable as a funny, violent story. I do think, so far, it's better than Loud & Nasty but I'm still waiting for the story to get going. I know it will as we approach the end of Act 1.

P31: Well, it's revelaed that Slick is Desmonds father. Cant say I was stunned or really felt shocked by this, it seemed convenient that this homeless guy that was befreinded by a guy who took him in ( out of a kindness yet to be seen elsewhere so far) ends up being friends with his father. It does reek a little of "too convenient". It's a nice angle and  could work but I really think you might need to build something more up to this.
My only other problem so far, is the dialouge. It's the ammount of questions asked. On almost every other page so far, the conversations have consisted of a Q & A dialouge.
It's fine, it explains things and it does develop characters to an extent, but maybe it would be better if you gave each character more range.

P40: It's a good little twist in getting us back to the begining so soon. I did like how you put this back as I was expecting it to be right at the end.

P42: Surprised Cooper got killed. His death sounds cool but maybe could be described a little better. Maybe just trim it, or cut the "snaps the head back" bit.

P49: I know Benito must be shocked at the what he has just seen but does he really need to vomit? It kinda takes away the well written scene you had and just makes it slightly comical in a weird way. I think if he was just shocked, really shocked it would compliment the scene better. It's only a small thing but I just think it a little unnessecary to have that in there. Up to now its enjoyable, as in the original you are using a lot of flashbacks and I dont have a problem with them. Its only a bit tiresome when you feel the story is kicking up a gear only to end up changing pace with a flashback.

P50: Slick's demand to Gregory made me laugh!

P61: I think you could change how Desmond and Slick find the camry - it's too much of a convenience they just happened to be on the same highway at the same time within reach of each other. And wouldnt they have dumped the camry if it had bullet shots ridden in it? Maybe not and that can be forgiven but I have trouble finding this scene realistic.  ( Although having checked again, it is a possibility if they live in the same area.)

P67: Nice bit here when Hector finds that the gun jams, going back to when Desmond said that they were liable to do so!

Im on page 70 and will drop the rest of the review shortly.



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Scoob
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Continued:

P70: I've noticed that the second part of the second act definitly is more humourous - the dialouge between Slick and Desmond is good but it seems that Desmond has changed quite a lot from the guy he was at the start.

77-79: I think you wrote the scene with Hector and Ugly and his goons well, with some suspense when he was underwater. But, I don't get how Penelope comes to his rescue. I'm hoping this is explained in a flashback a little later as I'm confused at the moment.

89: I think Penelope betraying Hector was a little obvious but it works fine. Thing is, if she is as cold hearted as she acted in killing Hector then why did she not kill Ugly before? Im sure she would have had plenty of chances with him being all over her. A perfect oppotunity would be on the flashback on Page 91 where she knocks him down - she could have killed him then, taken the money and gone off. She may not have wanted his murder on her hands and someone to set up, but then you have her kill Hector so that might be something you could look at - if this is how it plays out.

100: Slick's last words seem a little out of character. I mean he's been rampant, and cold throughout even at the last he had no remorse. It seems a little forced.

And to the end, which was a good finish setting up a possible third.

All in all, I liked moments and had some problems with others. It was a quick read at the start, things began to bog down a little after Slick was revelaed to be Desmond's father and things just kind of "happened". I have no real problem with this but it got a little tiresome at some stages where these people just killed and killed and apart from the odd dialouge here or there, no one really cared too much. That itself is fine and probably what you was aiming at - it's a gangsta story and it pretends to be nothing else. I just think it lacked a certain character that would lead the show. Desmond is probably the lead but he changes so quick from how he was in the opening 30 pages that it's hard to really take him seriously at times.

There is a cartoonish, humourous vibe around the whole thing. I mean it works in places and your dialouge is funny when you use it right. It helps the story move on at a pace which never really lags which is a good thing. I think if you maybe trim or alter some pieces of dialouge, especially the first act where there seems a lot of Q&As being asked and in a repetitive kind of way. The characters at times dont stand out as individuals and its hard to tell one from another.
This did sort itself out when there were less characters to deal with such as Slick and Desmond, who had a good partnership going. It's probably not what you wanted to do with it but if you maybe made them have some more development or emotion about events it might help it further.

Penelope, I still would like to know how she knew where Hector was when she rescued him and how she actually managed to do that. Regarding her aim of getting Ugly's money, her motive is fine but the way she went around it seemed more complicated then it should have been. It just didnt really make sense. Plus knowing her man was always boasting about being a killer, if she told him about the money Ugly had stored, then maybe he would have been in on doing the job himself anyway. She could then of always knocked Hector off ( in a murderous way!) at her discretion and taken the loot.

You're writing is as good as it was in Loud & Nasty, well probably better this time around. You're really good at keeping it basic and at a fast pace which I think is great. I cant really knock you for that at all. The only thing I could say that might help is to work on dialouge and perhaps some modifications to some of the plot lines. Perhaps some character development on some of the surrounding cast but I guess that's all down to dialouge anyway.

I hope my review has helped in some way, Tyler. I think you have a good, violent and darkly comical idea that is here. It just needs some ironing out.

All the best



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TAnthony
Posted: June 18th, 2007, 6:57pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Scoob,

Thanks for the review. You brought up some really great points. I also think it starts off pretty good and then kinda goes downhill from there.

Thanks!


"You wanna go to jail or you wanna go home? -- Training Day

All of my scripts on SimplyScripts
http://www.simplyscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?search=Tanthony

Mayhem - Sci-Fi
Loud and Nasty - Action/Thriller
Down and Dirty (Sequel to L&N) - Action/Thriller
Fool's Gold - Western
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