How long should a short be?  I've heard numbers all over the range.

Long enough to tell the story.  No more.  No less.


Phil

Good point, but is there a standard page length like for standard scripts it's like 90-120 any such thing for shorts?

No.  I have a pair of shorts on--I have two short scripts--on these boards.  'Suicide' is ten pages.  'Tocsin' is thirty.  That's how long it took to tell these stories.



Phil

Alright thanks, now I can go until I think it's done.  Who knows, might turn out to be a 80 page short.  Doubt it, but we'll see.  Thanks for the quick responses.

80 pages is a feature.  This is a frequently asked question.  There should be a frequently asked questions section with formulas, act structures, breakdowns, lengths, et cetera.

The real question is why write so many shorts? Is it because people have no creative or artistic ability to write a feature? You cant become a better writer if all you do is write 25 page shorts.

Don should have a limit of 5 shorts per person and than you're cut off, sure he'll put the script on the main site but the board should never see them because they do nothing. Nobody listens to comments on scripts when they are there and only listen when it's something like "Wow dude, this is awesome."

If that's all people want than just say so, don't waste our time asking for a review.

Wes, are you alright, you've seemed very down recently?

I have written eight or nine shorts now and every single one has taught me something so yeah, I do think it can make you a better writer. Plus, you can make all the beginners mistakes (and believe me I still do) and get them out of the way without investing months and months of the toil and sweat that goes into a feature.

On a practical level it is cheaper and quicker to make a short, and in a day and age when the film industry is unwilling to take a chance on an unknown, shorts seem to be getting more and more prominence as a 'calling card' for the director/producer/writer etc.

I am just building up to posting a couple of shorts on here, I wouldn't bother unless I was genuinely interested in getting feedback (and to be honest I have always found a little constructive criticism to be far more useful than someone saying 'wow dude that was awesome').

Go look, thats all thats been coming out recently. I dont think a short helps you write a feature, a feature needs solid 3 acts that get you where you're going without having to add in filler scenes.

A short does that, yes but it also gets you use to writing short and in turn you wont be able to reach a desireable length in the end on a feature.

Actually recently other than my computer I've been cruising normally. I just think I should start not holding back my thoughts as much as I would have last year.

I agree in that I have just started on my first feature length film, 30 pages in and its the hardest thing I have ever written. But a lot of the elements that go into a script - formatting, dialogue, description/action paragraphs, character development, pacing, you can learn through shorts. In some ways its actually a pleasure to have 90 + pages to get across the story and characters, I tend to try and cram as much into a short as I can and they suffer for it.

There have been a few shorts posted on here recently that have bucked that trend - a Zombie Inside and the one by Bare Nerve spring to mind. I understand your frustration, if you look down the list in the short section I have read and reviewed quite a few scripts where the author has never been seen or heard of again, but to be honest part of the reason I keep on reading them is because it helps me in my writing!  

Don't hold back, lifes too short!

Writing a short holds you back, write a series thats 21 pages long. At least that way you can build up your confidense in character development because you have to cram a lot of stuff and still make it good. Alan Holman does this best, his series is flawless and whatever flaws you do find well I doubt you would find one.

It's not like people have to agree with me because the facts are all there for you to see, it's just really unorganized much like the horror section.

I meant don't hold back with your opinions Wes!

As a very new writer I think shorts are a good learning ground. As I get more experience, I will hopefully move on to other formats, but short, series, and features, why should writing in any one exclude the others? Look at Stephen King, I prefer his shorts stories to his novels, are you trying to tell me he is wasting his time?  

And in terms of actually getting stuff produced, even if its only one of my mates messing around with a camera, short scripts will always be the easiest to work with.

You're right about the short section on this site, its one hell of a mixed bag, but having read some of the feature length stuff, maybe the rule should be you can't move on until you have written at least one decent short!  

There is nothing wrong with writing shorts.  If you have a story that's short, there's no reason to expand it into a feature and there's no reason to toss it aside.

Too often, Hollywood will take a short story and make a feature out of and it sucks.  Examples of this are 'They Live,' starring Rowdy Roddy Piper (okay, he sucked, too) and Total Recall (with Arnold Schwarzenegger).  Both of these movies are based on short stories.  If I recall, 'They Live' was based on a two page story; it took me less time to read the story than to watch the fight scene with Piper and Keith David.

I think if I added even a few pages to the shorts I've written, I ruin the story.  It would just be obvious padding.

And writing a short isn't necessarily easier than writing a feature.  In ten or fifteen pages, you have to establish the characters and tell the entire story.  You don't have much room to play.

The shorts are in their own section.  If you don't want to read them, don't go there.


Phil

In fact, do what you want. I do not really care, listen to me or don't it's all the same. You'll do what you want anyway and well when it all goes wrong I'll be here to say "I told you so"

i agree with someone on here he said a short is how long to tell the story. that is pretty good answer

Quoted from Old Time Wesley In fact, do what you want. I do not really care, listen to me or don't it's all the same. You'll do what you want anyway and well when it all goes wrong I'll be here to say "I told you so"

I'm currently having two short produced.  THese two will be placed on a DVD and labelled Phil's resume.  I'll be sending this out instead of a paper resume.


Phil

And I will label it as Phil's Greatest Hits.


Phil

I once had this idea to write a bunch of shorts and get them filmed. There would be about 10 or so, and I would place them all onto a DVD. I would then format the DVD to be identical to a CD. The DVD would have a title, and the shorts would represent the songs. It would be a visual album of sorts...

...Hmmm, maybe I'll revisit this idea.

Do what you want, time will tell.

Whatever makes you happy.

A short is also a good way to get your foot in the door.  An agent or a director may be more willing to read a ten page script than a 120 page script.  Even if he has no intention of producing it, he'll (or she'll) get a taste of what I can do, which may open more doors later on.


Phil

For me, I write shorts in between feature length projects.

Sometimes I have a good idea, but it's only plausible for a 15 min short. It's not strong enough to last a full script.

Maybe I misrepresented myself here on this subject, if that is even a word. I meant I think people should release compilation screenplays with shorts kinda like Midnight Moves, the scripts didn't have anything to do with each other and yet they are released together and work.

I just think the more you are out there the better chance you have of gaining an audience, how are people supposed to know what's by one person if it's spread throughout many, many pages?

Andy had a good idea with that thread in I'm Looking For where she added works by some people, if that thread comes back I think that would be another way of seeing this stuff.

I kinda made it sound like I hated short scripts which is not what I meant to do but I did.

In regards to the length of a short.

I think a short needs to be less than twenty to thirty pages.  If you can't tell the story in twenty to thirty pages, chances are you have enough material to expand it to feature length.  

The reason I say this is because the audience for a short is small, most shorts only play at film fests and on indie TV shows.  The longer the short, the less time a producer has for other shorts, thus the longer the short the harder it is to get accepted to fests and the like.

This is not a hard fast rule.  I have seen some extremely long shorts do well.  It's just some helpful advice.

In regards to why write a short.

Wes you are wrong to think that a short can't help you improve.  The majority of novelists start out writing short stories.  The majority of filmmakers start out shooting short films.  Hell even surgeons don't start out with major brain surgery.  The point of writing shorts is to learn the little things...dialogue, basic story structure, character development.  If you can master that for ten or twenty pages, then you can start trying to master it for 110 pages.

And as above this is not hard fast.  Some screenwriters have never written a short, and if you can learn without ever starting small, then more power to you.  But don't look down on us who realize there is good logic in starting small.

Also, as dogglebe stated, some stories don't call for the feature length treatment.

Poke

EDIT:  I did not read page two of this thread...stupid Poke.

I agree with what you are saying about packaging similarly themed shorts together as a feature.  I don't know if many producers would be willing to look at an unsolicited spec on something like that though.

If it's not all about selling like it should be well than it doesn't matter, but of course we live in a world of greed and ego's so I wouldn't question the fact that for most it's allabout selling and money.

I am not in this for money, no hidden agenda, just being real... Can we say the same about the rest of you?

Quoted from Old Time Wesley I am not in this for money, no hidden agenda, just being real... Can we say the same about the rest of you?

This statement is offensive.

I am working at being a professional screenwriter, and there ain't a thing wrong with that.  We all got to do something to make a living, why not do something you love doing?  I work a low paying job and struggle to get by, thus I realize that there is nothing wrong with wanting money.  Wanting to get paid for my work does not fall into the category of "hidden agenda."

That is keeping it "real."

Poke

i believe shorts are a good learning tool for beginners.

Shorts are good if you have a short story.  The two shorts that I have on Simplyscripts could not be stretched out to feature length.  Doing so would ruin the stories.


Phil

Wow, Wes, you really are on about his one, aren't you? I have only written a handful of shorts, and as Phil points out, they are as long as they need to be to tell the story. One short only ended up being a short because the story ended at 43 pages. That was all there was to tell. The only other shorts I wrote were deliberately short because I was writing for a theatre that did one acts at the time (a one act is the play equivalent of the movie short).

One I wrote because I wanted to write a story that could be shot in one long continuous camera shot. It was one set, the camera followed the characters around without a break, and it used very basic special effects. It was a kind of Twilight Zone thriller called Forgotten, and I never posted it here, but it's on my website. I wrote it to shoot in my house, but my wife dissented.

Forgotten was an exercise and a challenge to keep one single shot since every single line someone would speak had to be written and yet kept within the boundaries of not wasting the audience's time.

The other main short I had was around 30 pages (I think), was also one set, and was actually written as a play. I've never posted it anywhere, but I mght drag it up just for fun sometime. It was also a thriller with a single set. The guy kills his wife an hides her under he couch when the cops come sniffing around. Now my wife says if she eer disappears, look under the couch.

I don't have a problem with shorts as long as they are not detracting from writing something bigger. They work well as a jumping off point to bigger and better things, in my opinion, and it is important to move beyond them. But sometimes if you have a crazy idea, it is also a good ideato write it down, and if it is a short, so be it. At least you wrote it down. The important thing is writing is not only to write, but also to grow. If you write a short, pat yourself on the back for completing something, but I don't thinkyou should set out to write a short. I think you should set out to write a story and see what comes of it.

Note: As with Poke, stupid George didn't read page 2 of the thread either, but I guess the reply still works. Oh, well. Not the first time; won't be the last.

Quoted from George Willson I don't have a problem with shorts as long as they are not detracting from writing something bigger. They work well as a jumping off point to bigger and better things, in my opinion, and it is important to move beyond them. But sometimes if you have a crazy idea, it is also a good ideato write it down, and if it is a short, so be it. At least you wrote it down. The important thing is writing is not only to write, but also to grow. If you write a short, pat yourself on the back for completing something, but I don't thinkyou should set out to write a short. I think you should set out to write a story and see what comes of it.

Keep in mind that it's easier for a new writer to get a short produced than a feature length movie.  Producers (usually newbie producers in this case) are more likely to take a chance with your short if they think it can be done quickly and cheaply.  A producer is also more willing to take the time to read a fifteen page script over a 142 page script if you're not established.

Film festivals would rather take a couple of shorts (over one feature film ) from new people as they can split up the shorts in between the big-name films.


Phil

I started writing my first feature length, but it was a slow long process (it took about 3 years on and off). While I was doing this, I wrote a couple of shorts...mainly for fun...something to take away from the serious side. I posted them here, they are not my best work, but I've had lots of inquiries from independant filmers.

So yes, it is good to write shorts (IMO)...but to further a career in the writing industry, you'll need to develop the skills to produce a 100-120 page script.

don't forgot some ppl make a career out of shorts