So, I've been giving this issue a lot of thought lately, and I thought I'd bring it up for discussion.  This is something I see happening a bit on the boards, and I bring it up because I recently wrestled with it myself.

Basically, I'm wondering what everyone's opinions on incomplete reads are.  I think it makes for an interesting question, especially for us screenwriters, because we're in a profession where the first 10-15 pages are everything and your script is constantly at risk of being thrown in the trash.  So it makes a little bit of sense to act the same way we think a producer might.

But really, for this website, are we helping someone by reading the first 10 pages and then stopping and saying "I couldn't read your script any further and here are the reasons why..." or should we push on?

I feel like, in my personal opinion, it's OK in some instances but not OK in others.  If you pick up a script in your own free time you have every right to stop and let them know why you couldn't go on.  But if you owe them a read, you should make your way through the whole thing.

Like I said, I bring it up because I do see it happening quite a bit and thought it might make for interesting discussion.

I have started reading scripts "for fun" many many times, but a lot of times, I just can't finish and have then not posted anything about the script. I started one yesterday, but I couldn't get past page 10 so I quit...

This may be only barely related, but you know what I've been seeing alot of that drives me crazy?

When an author posts on their own thread -- usually the initial post -- to say, "I know the format is no good, please just tell me what you think of the story."

Grr.  I hate that.  If you know the format is off, why even post the darn thing?

For Matt's comment, I see both sides -- but either way -- people will continue to do it -- and most often, it is on scripts where the formatting is bad, so maybe a full read is not even deserved anyway.

I think if you're going to try to read the script and you can't get through for some reason the author should know about then you should tell them.

Not reasons like I put it down because the phone rang and then I didn't feel like reading the rest and then forgot .  Or I had so much going on in my life that I couldn't concentrate.  

But reason like it's bizarrely formatted (and I'm talking white letters on a space field background) or it didn't grab me in first 10 pages or even I couldn't open the file.  These things are useful and the author should be told.

I also think people shouldn't worry about repeating what another commenter has said because repetition is important when sifting through criticism.  

  

I generally give features twenty pages before I decide if I'm going to finish it.  That's more than a director will read if he doesn't like it.  If I puit it down at this point, I will rewrite a review based on what I read.

Is that fair?  Yes it is.  It's the writer's job to make us want to finish the script.  If I don't like the first twenty pages, the next eighty could be torture.

For the sake of avoiding shitstorms, I try not mentioning it was a partial read.  


Phil

I agree with you Michael. I started one yesterday, but it honestly didn't work for me at all so I decided to quit, but I did not have the heart to tell the writer that so I said nothing....

Quoted from dogglebe I generally give features twenty pages before I decide if I'm going to finish it.  That's more than a director will read if he doesn't like it.

I have a friend who reads for a living. He told me once that he will read the first page of any script. If he likes it, he will read the first ten. If he likes the first ten, he will read the entire script.

That seems fair to me.

Quoted from bert Grr.  I hate that.  If you know the format is off, why even post the darn thing?

I learned how to properly format scripts through writing them posting them, and then being told what I did wrong.  It took me two or three scripts before I got it down, but back then the site wasn't nearly as busy, so maybe it's a whole new ball game.

I don't think I've ever left a review that said I read the first 10 pages and then put it down because it didn't hook me.  I've always felt that if I started this person's script, I should finish it...and then grill them on their introduction hook.

While I think posting "I stopped after 15 pages because it didn't hook me because of this, this, and that" is a perfectly valid review, this site is all about helping each other.  Knowing that the first 15 pages are trash is great insight, but I'd also like to know if the other 85 pages are the same.  A director/producer won't give you that chance, but this site will and I think should, especially if you owe someone a read.

But that's just how I roll.

Quoted from Higgonaitor I learned how to properly format scripts through writing them posting them, and then being told what I did wrong.  It took me two or three scripts before I got it down, but back then the site wasn't nearly as busy, so maybe it's a whole new ball game.

Higgs, this is totally valid. If you don't know what you did wrong, then you're not the type that Bert is complaining about. Bert is complaining about the type that KNOWS they screwed up the format, but won't fix it before they post it. If you know the format is wrong, then fix it first. If you don't know it's wrong, then take notes from the first whiny review that complains about your format and then re-post it.

Given that a movie has about five minutes to grab an audience before they decide whether they like it or not, 10 pages is actually more than fair. I've heard much about those cardinal 10 pages, and that readers, indeed, will toss the script after 10 pages if they aren't hooked. I do believe though, that if you put it down after 10 pages, you should tell the author why so they can work on it. Very valid review. It's more than the reader will give.

For the record, I always finish the scripts I start reading, painful as they are sometimes. Those are the ones that get novels for reviews because it amounts to a lot to say. What I've occasionally found, though, is a gem hiding within those latter pages. Somehow, the person wrote a hell of a story, but presented it very badly. So it really depends on what you're reading for. I read to find the story. I've dropped most screenwriting basics unless they're just blatant. I try to focus on the story and characters and such. When I read the OWC scripts, I didn't care about length, theme or anything. I just read them for what they were.

I think it's different if you OWE someone a read.  

Otherwise, you're under no obligation.  Just as much as you want to help that individual.

Good thread, Dres.

If something stopped you completing the read, then I see no reason to not state why - it's helpful to know why. I think the line is crossed when words like: "shit", "rubbish", "waste of time", etc, etc are chucked in to justify an incomplete read. That's simply arsehole territory. It's the kinda thing that drives people away from the site. Nodoby hates justified harsh criticism ('course, they may not like it), but what ruins someone's day is a reviewer being a w**ker - who wants to log on and see the kinda grief you would get in the playground.

The only real sticking point is when you owe a read, and you really cannot make it through. For me, I try to read something else, and make up the read that way. With returns, seeing as someone has taken the effort, it's worth forcing through, unless it's really impossible.

Andrew

Aye…this is a very good thread, and I’m sure you guys and gals won’t be surprised to hear that I have a lot to say about the subject.

First of all, let me be clear on my feelings here…any feedback at all is a wonderful thing.   Any time spent by someone who has informative feedback is fantastic, and should be so appreciated.  No one owes anyone anything, unless some sort of deal was agreed on…and most of the time, that deal will not be paid back I full.  Trust me, I know.   I’ve been fucked by numerous people in here, in that I’ve spent literally hours going over their scripts with a fine toothed comb, only to get very limited feedback back in return.   It’s the way it is, nowadays, and it’s not a good thing, but I understand.

I frequently “try” to read new scripts. I love reading scripts, and I love helping people.   It’s my time, and I spend my time how I choose.  If a script sucks, I’m usually not going to finish it…unless I’m in a very giving mood, or just feel like helping out a struggling fellow writer.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s blatantly apparent from the opening line, sentence, passage, first page, if a script is good, alright, bad, or fucking terrible.  It’s not going to change. If someone can write, it’s apparent…if they can’t, it’s also apparent.  It’s easy to see and I hope you guys understand that.

I’ve spent literally 10 hours plus on scripts for people.  I’ve put together a complete review and edit of every single line and page, sometimes totally out at over 15 pages of Word notes.   We all know that there are numerous sites and people who can charge up to $500 for this, and their reviews are usually only 5 pages at best, and ½ of that is a review of the story, that offers nothing.   I don’t ask anyone for money or the like..I may ask them for a review or help in a certain area.  I’m always on the short side of things in this regard.  And that’s fine. I’m cool with it.

When I give feedback on the first page, 5 pages, 10 pages, whatever, I’m giving information that will completely help that writer in so many ways.  Do I feel bad when I don’t get through an entire script?  NO…DEFINITELY NOT!  Nor should anyone else.

SS is such an awesome site because there are people hat give of their own free will to help, to inform, to educate, to enlighten, and to make aware.

I could go on for hours on this subject, but I won’t.  These are my sincere feelings, and I hope you guys understand.

There you go…

I thought this was done more during an OWC. when there's a few scripts to get through(if the reader chooses to read heaps) then sometimes it can be tempting to give up and move on to th enext one.
I admit I did this for 2 scripts in the recent OWC - I just couldn't gwt inot them by page 2 and knew I wasn't gonna. That's just me! I read over 20 of the scripts(and will read more when I find out the authors).

Now, if you do this when you owe someone a read, well, hmm, not good...you would have to be game to own up to it too!

Quoted from Dreamscale Aye…this is a very good thread, and I’m sure you guys and gals won’t be surprised to hear that I have a lot to say about the subject. First of all, let me be clear on my feelings here…any feedback at all is a wonderful thing.   Any time spent by someone who has informative feedback is fantastic, and should be so appreciated.  No one owes anyone anything, unless some sort of deal was agreed on…and most of the time, that deal will not be paid back I full.  Trust me, I know.   I’ve been fucked by numerous people in here, in that I’ve spent literally hours going over their scripts with a fine toothed comb, only to get very limited feedback back in return.   It’s the way it is, nowadays, and it’s not a good thing, but I understand. I frequently “try” to read new scripts. I love reading scripts, and I love helping people.   It’s my time, and I spend my time how I choose.  If a script sucks, I’m usually not going to finish it…unless I’m in a very giving mood, or just feel like helping out a struggling fellow writer. As far as I’m concerned, it’s blatantly apparent from the opening line, sentence, passage, first page, if a script is good, alright, bad, or fucking terrible.  It’s not going to change. If someone can write, it’s apparent…if they can’t, it’s also apparent.  It’s easy to see and I hope you guys understand that. I’ve spent literally 10 hours plus on scripts for people.  I’ve put together a complete review and edit of every single line and page, sometimes totally out at over 15 pages of Word notes.   We all know that there are numerous sites and people who can charge up to $500 for this, and their reviews are usually only 5 pages at best, and ½ of that is a review of the story, that offers nothing.   I don’t ask anyone for money or the like..I may ask them for a review or help in a certain area.  I’m always on the short side of things in this regard.  And that’s fine. I’m cool with it. When I give feedback on the first page, 5 pages, 10 pages, whatever, I’m giving information that will completely help that writer in so many ways.  Do I feel bad when I don’t get through an entire script?  NO…DEFINITELY NOT!  Nor should anyone else. SS is such an awesome site because there are people hat give of their own free will to help, to inform, to educate, to enlighten, and to make aware. I could go on for hours on this subject, but I won’t.  These are my sincere feelings, and I hope you guys understand. There you go…

I think it’s fair to say, Jeff, and I speak on behalf of everyone at SS when I say this...you need to start reviewing more., dude...a lot more. You're just not pulling your weight around here, man. Your comments need to be longer, more in depth and most of all HONEST! Don't be afraid to speak your mind, you let people off too lightly, you're too nice, too easily pleased, you know what I mean?

Obvious BS comment aside, Jeff being one of the best, most thorough, most straight talking reviewers on the site, in my opinion...I second pretty much second what people have said. If you owe someone a read you should feel obligated to get to the end While if you're just reading a script at random you can duck out at any time if it really isn't your cup of tea.

Probably a good idea to tell the author though. I mean, be polite about it, just let he/she know where you think the problems lie. If they have any aspirations to perfect their talent, they will take it on board, thank you for it and try to improve.

Col.