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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Comedy Scripts  ›  The Orphans of Mansfield Hall (7WC) Moderators: bert
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  Author    The Orphans of Mansfield Hall (7WC)  (currently 3559 views)
ghost and_ghostie gal
Posted: January 8th, 2010, 3:45am Report to Moderator
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TommyP...

How you doing?   I'm slowly making my rounds.  Congrats on finishing the 7WC.  Not an easy thing to do.  As evident in all deadlines like this one, some always fail or decided to, "I'm pullin' a Palin."  And no pun intended, I like her.  

Yea, I know this has been done before but you know what TommyP... despite popular belief...

"It doesn't matter if a story has been told a million times.  Guess what?  Pretty much everything you see now days at the movies has been told before in one fashion or another.  It's what you as a writer do to make yours stand out from the rest."

Having said that... I'm not going to re-hash what's already been said.  So, I'll just give you my thoughts.  I don't think you separated this from the pack though.  Just my humble IMO.

I thought you first couple of voiceovers were good.  The opening storytelling scene was alright.  You didn't waist no time either, you got the conflict going right away when Mr. Preston showed up.  Always a good thing.

Took me a minute to figure out who your main character was.  Maybe Elkie needs to play a bigger staring role.  As with Miss Bertrus, I'd make her as mean as possible.  I think you let her off too easy.  I felt sorry for Uncle Brian in the beginning.  Mainly is that what we have to look forward too when we reach his age?  Kidding here.

Clare was my favorite character though.  I thought you used her very well in this.  Almost like an equalizer.

I thought your dialogue was okay for the most part.  It's a tricky thing to do when it comes to children.

I didn't find too many things funny in here though.  I was surprised because unusal because you seem to have a knack for it.

Add about twenty more pages in the middle to beef a few things up and I think you'll have a winner here.  Why? because I thought you handled the ending very well.  Did you ever consider an alternate one?

Be consistant with your sluglines, get rid of the FADE OUTS  and cut down on all the pauses.

I really can't add too much more, everything was pretty much covered.  So again congrats man, good first draft for only seven weeks.  

Good Luck,

Ghostwriter



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ghost and_ghostie gal  -  January 8th, 2010, 4:45am
Too many mispelled words
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alffy
Posted: January 8th, 2010, 5:32am Report to Moderator
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Hey Tommy

Forgive any repeated questions, I don’t like to read over too many responses before reading.

Page 2, Uncle Brian says ‘She steps onto the large doorstep and peaks around the corner’.  ‘Peaks’ should be ‘peeks’.

Page 3, the ‘children slowly emerge behind a huge hill’, this doesn’t sound right, should it be ‘slowly emerge from behind a huge hill’?

The opening scenes are good, I especially like the story telling.  One thing though, I’ve never heard an Orphanage owner being called a ‘caretaker’?  Maybe just me on this but I assume a caretaker to generally look after the maintenance of a building and not children?

Probably pointed out already but you have two number 3’s in your montage on page 4.

Not sure why but Uncle Brian’s rant at Preston seems a tadge long.  He seems to fill in some back story and it doesn’t feel natural.

If Uncle Brian came to Mansfield Hall with Trad to start a new life I assume he bought the hall?  Or was it already an Orphanage?  I mean, if he bought the hall and then turned it into an Orphanage, why is he moving?  Wouldn’t they just force him to close it, they couldn’t force him to move away from his own home?  I may be barking up the wrong tree here lol?

Bottom of page 13, I think you have a typo, Sarah says ‘I bet shes can sing’?  I say maybe because I don’t know if it’s deliberate child talk, like Brent who says he bets the man can ride a boat.

What the fudge!  The rabbit was run over?  I nearly stopped reading after that lol.

I like how Miss Bertrus informs the children she is their boss.  This already gives us insight to her personality as a disciplinarian.

Page 18, ‘Clare starts up again on the drums’.  Where did the drums come from?  She was playing a guitar then the drums.  I think she’s playing some sort of one-man-band arrangment but I think you should explain this earlier.

Page 25, Suz reaches the bench. She reaches hand onto the bench, feels around.  I think there’s a word missing after ‘reaches’?

The kids have good banter between them and I like the way they seem so innocent and naive about their situation, thinking they can get Uncle Brian back if they scare off Miss Bertrus.  Their mischievous actions are pretty realistic.

Page 29, the montage has Trad, Andy and Tyson but then it’s Tyron?  Are these different kids or is it typo?

The scenes with Trad and his new friends, friends come and go, I think this is your underlining message here.


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alffy
Posted: January 8th, 2010, 5:33am Report to Moderator
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Page 38, ‘Clare points at her’ but is referring to James.

Page 41, Elkie refers to Trent?

I find it hard to believe that JT lives in the woods.

Page 52, walkie talkie should be walkie-talkie.

Seems a massive coincidence that just as JT emerges from the woods and confronts Brent, their long lost parents turn up, and their reasons for leaving their children is a bit cheap.  If parents abandon their kids, are they able to just say they’ll have them back now?

Page 62, Miss Bertrus says ‘Very ignorant and ones at that’.  I think you should lose the ‘and’?

Page 63, Miss Bertrus says ‘he went against the rules’, when referring to Suz.

Page 67, Elkie says ‘We hadn’t really learnt anything from Miss Bertrus that she wanted us to learnt’.  Second learnt should be learn.

Page 68 Elkie says ‘Soon some of would be getting older’.  Think you’re missing ‘us’.

Sorry for pointing out all the mistakes but thought you might want to know.

I liked Clare, she was a good character, although I envisioned her and Uncle Brian running the Orphanage at the end, so I got that wrong.  Miss Bertrus was also a good character, just the right mix of nasty but thinking she was helping the children.

I wasn’t blown away with the Trad’s story, it seemed a little to stuck in, if you know what I mean.  I think you could easily expand it and make his realisation that he had left his real friends behind stronger.  You certainly have room for expansion here.

I mentioned before about TJ’s story, and I stick by it.  I can’t see a child living in the woods in modern times, which leads me to a thought.  I really saw this playing out much earlier, like at the turn of the twentieth century.  I think this would make a lot more of your story plausible; the children being left and parents just turning up and taking them back, the fact that the children don’t seem to have any educational facilities and also the fact that they are being cared for by only two members of staff.

I thought you had a few too many montages, some worked like Miss Bertrus going over the daily lessons but I think you could lose a few.  Same goes with V.O.’s, I think you could lose a few but on the whole they worked OK.

Overall I enjoyed this but it needs some work, which I’m sure you know.  For a first draft written in 7 weeks, you did a good job and there’s plenty of scope for improvement.  There weren’t too many laughs seen as this was in the comedy section, I’d say more family drama but never the less it was an enjoyable read.


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Tommyp
Posted: January 16th, 2010, 9:27pm Report to Moderator
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Ghostwriter... sorry for the VERY long delay of my reply, I’ve been away from the Internet for a few days.

Thanks for the advice, and I’m glad you liked Clare.

I suppose it is more drama than comedy, although I thought it was funny. I think I can let myself go more when it is adult comedy.

Add 20 more pages? That’s the plan. When I posted this I said it wasn’t done, and I like the fact you have taken that into account when reviewing it. Thanks.

I did not consider an alternate ending. Thoughts on anything?

Again, thanks for the read, appreciate it.

Alffy...
Glad you liked the opening scene, most people don’t.

Yeah, not sure about “caretaker”. Will do some research.

Okay, the Brian rant. I needed some info in there some how, some backstory, and I thought this was a good way. Because he had to fight back, and had to say his reasons for fighting back. But yeah, I will cut it down a bit.

Hmm interesting point about who owns the orphanage. I think
Did you really  stop reading when the rabbit was run over? I just wanted to show that Miss Bertrus was a bad person before we met her.

Now, about Brent and JT’s parents. My mum read this and she said that bit didn’t work. I’m going to change their initial reason for leaving JT and Brent, and it will be better than the one now.

Yeah the scene of Trad realising is weak, I will work on it.

I wasn’t sure what time to set it in when I was writing it, and at a point I thought much earlier. I might change it to that.

Thanks again reading it and giving me all those notes, very helpful


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JonnyBoy
Posted: January 21st, 2010, 11:13am Report to Moderator
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Back on my mission to read all 7WC scripts (and then Jeff's SoulShadows script), and you're up, Tommy. I have lots of suggestions to make, and advice to offer. I'm going to try and suggest what to change rather than bash you over the head with what you did wrong, since others have done the negativity for me.

I like the basic premise of this. Kind man who runs orphanage leaves, replacement is horrible, children try to drive her out, As others have said, it's not ground-breakingly original - I think it's usually about a nanny / governess rather than an orphanage, though - although given how unoriginal my 7WC entry was, I feel like a real hypocrite saying that! Also, just because it's not new doesn't mean it can't work. So yeah, the basic idea, I like. I just think you need to develop it in an entirely different way. I'm just going to put up a few basic, numbered areas and then expand on them one by one; very unfocussed, I know.

1. THE OPENING

I liked the opening with Brian telling a story. It was a good intro to him and the kids, established their dynamic early on. HOWEVER, I'd introduce a little prologue with Elkie explaining who Brian was and what Mansfield Hall is. A bit like the beginning of Edward Scissorhands, you know? That ties in to what I'm going to say later in 'VOICEOVER'. I actually think you can take a little longer establishing characters and relationships. The transition from the opening to the Elkie / Trad scene felt awkward and sudden, especially since we snap right back to Uncle Brian anyway. I think you need to consider losing that.

Which leads me into...

2. WHY UNCLE BRIAN LEAVES

This was a problem, for me. I just didn't buy it. I don't believe that this rule would suddenly be introduced, and it clashes with the fact that Brian was running the orphanage on his own in the first place. Both things are plausability issues that need to be addressed. I'm going to suggest an alternate reason why Brian has to go, which you can take or leave.

Brian has an accident around the page 10-15 mark, and is hospitalised. Maybe it's a fall (perhaps trying to rescue / stop a kid?), maybe he has some sort of heart attack / stroke. He's taken off in an ambulance and it's unclear if he's going to make it, and then Miss Bertrus is brought in as a temporary replacement. That, I think, would work better than what you have now. The point would be not that the kids have to drive her out in order to get Brian back, but that they just have to survive her rule until he recovers and returns. Maybe he's due back in the new year, so all they have to do is survive Christmas. That would give this script a much-needed sense of direction, I think. Which brings me on to my next point.

3. A MUCH-NEEDED SENSE OF DIRECTION

It really doesn't feel like you outlined this at all. I know you were struggling to keep going, and it does show because at the moment this really just feels like a bag of ideas rather than a focussed narrative with a beginning, middle and end. There's no sense of it building to anything, no real feeling of resolution at the end because there's nothing to really resolve. I have a feeling you added the whole 'Twelve Lessons of Christmas' thing because you thought it would give you some sort of anchor for the story, but while it's not a bad idea it's not enough. The ending just sort of...comes, without any real fanfare of sense of excitement. Jeff’ll hate me for saying this, but what you need here is to establish your plot points, the beginning and end of each act. Act 1 is the introduction, and Brian leaving. The arrival of Miss Bertrus is what begins Act 2. But where is the transition into Act 3? What exactly does Act 3 consist of? That’s what you need to give this a sense of direction.

Here, for what it’s worth, is my suggestion of how the story should go. Brian has an accident and is hospitalised, meaning that a TEMPORARY replacement has to be drafted in. The kids know that Brian will be back for the New Year...but they’ll have to try and survive Christmas without him. Maybe she could declare that Christmas has been cancelled, so they have to try and drive her out in order to be able to have it? That way you have a timeline for your script, and a definite end point to aim for. There’s also another angle you could take, which is that Miss Bertrus really isn’t all she appears to be...I’d love it if it turned out she was, in fact, a MALE dwarf on the run from the police, or planning to commit a robbery, or something (imagine a scene where one of the children sees her taking off her wig, and runs to tell the others only for them not believe them – perhaps that character could be a habitual liar?). So you’d also have the kids trying to survive her tyrannical rule AND save the day. Maybe Miss Bertrus framed Uncle Brian for some minor crime in order to get him out the way so he/she could be at Mansfield Hall at the right time, so the kids have to reveal Miss Bertrus’ deceit and thereby clear Uncle Brian’s name...you get the idea. Of course, that’s a completely different story, but it has more direction than the slightly aimless plot you have going here. Here’s a very quick logline: “When the kindly old man who runs the orphanage at Mansfield Hall is hospitalised, the kids are horrified to meet his replacement: a mean, vertically-challenged woman called Miss Bertrus. Can the children survive two weeks under Miss Bertrus’ rule? Will Christmas really be cancelled? And is there, in fact, more to Miss Bertrus than meets the eye?” Home Alone (kid beats robbers) meets your original orphanage idea.

Your subplots, I think, are expendable. I didn't buy into either of them, and I don't think either of them really added anything. Neither were really developed and both reached very sudden conclusions. I didn't really understand the motivation for the 'Trad and his new friends' sideline, apart from perhaps to get some more pages down. What does it tell us about Trad that we didn't already know? What does he learn from the experience? Good subplots often end up being connected, somehow, to the main plot. You didn't really have a main plot here, which is why the subplots just felt adrift and slightly redundant. The JT plot was pushing the boundaries of plausability; it felt out of place here, because the rest of the script isn’t similarly bizarre. If you want it wacky, make it wacky, but don’t go wacky half-heartedly. It also just...ended, rather mutedly. I have a question or two about that scene, actually: if it’s been so many years, then how do the adults recognise their children immediately? And wouldn’t the boys be slightly less overjoyed to see them? They have been abandoned at an orphanage, after all! Also, I didn’t really like that the boys were seen by their parents as essentially things they could pick up and drop at a whim – ‘oh, now we want a family again so come home...until we don’t anymore, at which point we’ll abandon you again’ – and we were just supposed to accept that and still view it as a happy moment.

4. VOICEOVER

I think you do need a voiceover at the start, but in my opinion you’re seriously mis-using the V.O. at certain points here. The main thing about voiceovers is this: “who is speaking here?” That doesn’t just mean ‘which character’, it also includes their perspective on the story. Your voiceover jumps around from past to present tense, meaning it’s confusing to establish Elkie’s perspective on events. Is she looking back at what happened that year, or explaining it to us as she goes along?

Here’s how I think you should use it. Have the narration be spoken by NARRATOR, an older woman who’s explaining the story to us. Then don’t use it again – the fact that you used it haphazardly suggests structural weaknesses to me – until the very end, where you have a little epilogue scene. A woman is telling the story – of the Christmas without Uncle Brian – to a group of kids. And only then do we realise, just like at the end of Edward Scissorhands, that it’s Elkie telling the story, all grown up. Trad comes in with the big golden retriever they always said they’d have, and the kids go running out to play outside. Elkie and Trad have taken over Mansfield Hall, carrying on Brian’s work. That, I think, would be a sweet ending.

Which quickly brings me to another point. When is this set? Your main plot has a very timeless, classic feel, almost as if you originally planned to set it in the past. But then you undermine that by using the Wii, water parks, leather jackets and so on in the sub-plots. Also, where is this set? Rural, urban, suburban? England, USA, Australia? You allude to different places, but in trying to be universal and non-specific you end up being vague. I think setting it in the past, in rural Australia / Tasmania, is the way to go. There’s no way that Miss Bertrus would be able to behave like this in the modern world – the kids would all be on Facebook or something, complaining to the whole world. Anything’s a news story nowadays...she wouldn’t get away with it. Have you seen the Australian film Picnic at Hanging Rock? It's about what happens on a school trip in rural Australia around 1900. It’s not massively similar to your script, but the location of Mansfield Hall reminded me of the girl’s school in that film (also Mansfield Park, the Jane Austen novel – people will pick up on that similarity of title, so you should be aware of that if it wasn’t a deliberate allusion). I’m not saying go and watch the film, because it’s completely different to this. But it is a pretty good film in its own right, so if you have time...

5. OTHER ISSUES / NOTES

- I don’t think the dialogue is too bad. There are some scenes where it felt a bit expositional, like you were just trying to talk out the story and move the plot forward but tried to pretend that’s not what you were doing. One thing to watch is your inconsistent use of contractions – “won’t / will not” “don’t / do not” and so on. Take page 40, for instance. JT says “they are hard to catch” and “I will have the cat for you”, and Elkie says “we are having hamburgers for dinner”, but they also use “can’t”, “that’s”, “shouldn’t”...inconsistency is bad unless it’s deliberate inconsistency, and this didn’t feel like that. Just something to bear in mind.
- You have a couple of moments that you could have made more of. The reveal of Miss Bertrus’ height: a potentially wonderful comic moment, but you severely underplay it here. You should make more of it...for instance, Miss Bertrus steps out the car. The camera starts to do one of those shots where we see her feet stepping onto the ground and then we move up her body – but the camera misjudges her height, goes too far up and has to jolt back down, thereby comically underlining her surprising shortness. Or something like that. Don’t know how you’d write that in the script, but hopefully you get the idea. Also, with JT.

EXT. WOODLANDS - DAY

Ellie makes her way through the undergrowth. A CRACK comes from left OS. She WHIPS round.

No-one there.

She shrugs, carries on walking. A bush RUSTLES in front of her, branches and leaves twitching menacingly.

ELKIE
Hello?

No reply. She approaches slowly, fearfully. The bush is deadly still. Elkie's clenched hands tremble. She only metres away now, and as she reaches out a shaky hand --

-- a SAVAGE FIGURE leaps out, spear raised. He wears war paint and a loincloth, his mouth is a snarl.

Elkie relaxes, rolls her eyes.

ELKIE
Oh. Hey JT.


Or something. Just bigger than what you have now. Another moment is the reveal that Trad is Brian’s grandson. I think you can hold onto that rather than giving it to us straight away.

6. CONCLUSION

That's it, really. Unlike Jeff, I don't think this is unsalvagable. What you have here is a basic idea, but it will need a lot of work. You don't actually have a story - you have some ideas and a beginning, but no real path, no end in sight. Like I said earlier, you need to sit down and map out your structure. Act 1 - Plot Point 1 - Act 2 - Plot Point 2 - Act 3. Send Marty back in time, have Marty stuck in the past, bring Marty home. There's enough here to convince me that a) you shouldn't can this just yet and b) you are definitely capable of writing good, feature-length scripts. This one just needs more work. I offered a lot of advice for Stevie's script and most of it, I can see now, wasn't particularly helpful because I suggested a direction he wasn't interested in going in. If the same happens here with you, then that's absolutely fine. Just make sure you do PICK a direction, whatever it may be!

Well done for getting something in, and good luck with whatever you attempt to do next! Hope some of what I've said is some help. I have a bit of change of tone coming up now - Pia's script is the next one on my list of reads...


Guess who's back? Back again?

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
JonnyBoy  -  January 21st, 2010, 1:26pm
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