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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Drama Scripts  ›  Specter Moderators: bert
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  Author    Specter  (currently 3766 views)
greg
Posted: December 13th, 2007, 1:57pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Halls,

Thanks for checking this out.  Your piece is queued on my list behind 2 others that I'll get to once my break starts(this afternoon, officially)!

To address two of your points, I see what you're saying with making Fate a bigger character, however that's what I avoided.  The reason being, in Heaven you got the G-man, and in Hell you got the Bad Boy, and since Half-Point is right in the middle I wanted it to balance there and didn't want to make Fate on the same level as other major "supernatural" beings.

Your other point of why did Anna fall for Lenny if she's made for Ken?  Good question.  The reason being is that although in the normal destiny they were made for each other, after Ken died the destiny lines became askew, so since now they're out of balance, things that weren't meant to be begin to happen to adjust to the new destiny being written(i.e. the guy jumping off the bridge who wasn't supposed to die for 60-something years).

So thanks again for checking this out!  You'll be hearing from me on your piece in good time!


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I_Work_at_Halls
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Ah, ok then I guess I understand the Anna for Lenny thing.

As for Fate, I didn't mean that he should be a bigger character in terms of power or importance or anything like that, just that I expeced him to stand out more since it is Fate. I understand your argument with the neutraility theme, but I think even with Fate being in the middle and being completely neutral you make that into something memorable.
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JD_OK
Posted: December 17th, 2007, 5:12am Report to Moderator
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page 38, he was suppose to be watching anna then just BAM, he wonders if any knows he is gone... I think this sudden change would work better if in anna/lenny convo talk about familiy or friends in a question askin toward themselves and THEN this question pushing him to see about his own friends family missing him. It would be seem less selfish/thinking of his own death affected anyone.

also as of page 38, to lil have hapn to be at almost half of the script i would suggest removing extra dialogue that directly doesnt pull plot forward so it doesnt slow.

pg 44. lol smacks him in the head with the paper

pg 45. i would remove " Fate doesn't say a word." Obviously he doesnt she u dont make him speak. Just "fate points to the couch."

page 48, i think as of right now It would be more becoming to Ken's character to not to refer to fate as fate but like F or fay-tizzle" u know just something that mocks Fate for messing up "fate" for him and there fore he died. Since clearly he doesnt deserve the name "fate" if it can be screwed up. Just a suggestion tho

pg 49. Fate sure didnt figure anything thing else out that i didnt think he would have already known from he let ken go in the car.

As or now or withing next couple pages, the stakes havent been really raised for jn, he still doin what he was doin 15 pages ago. by page 55 i think in the 3 act structure stakes should be raised to the protagonist. Then again u did mention the world comes to an end, but he clearly doesnt know what to do ( have a chance) to make it better. Dunno.. am I making sense? Then again he could find out how to in next couple pages so ignore this if he does!


I am glad u put in tho that it would be back lashing just returning him to before to save it, that would be cliche. Good touch

P52. APRIL : I'm sorry." Think should be annabelle
54. I may be reading wrong, but seems odd goin from the 'rape' like circumstance to chatting with fate, doesnt flow well. I would add something in the scene describing anna's reaction to his lifting her up and carrying her out to say its welcomed or she is resisting. So far its unclear
pg 56, thor,- seen adventures in baby sitting? ;0)

64, One major thing that is troubling me, is that u seem to have two different tones throughtout ur script.
You start with kinda of comedic into it, u keep it light but then u have, harsh tones with lenny and annabell scenes its likes switches from pg 13 to R with them.

67. "I hate thing life, etc" seems forced... I would revise it. like "what did I do" "God please help me"  and or give her some action instead of words to convey this. like smash a picture of her and lenny together.

pg 77, u said got o the source, why not take out the ashole kenny instead of sweet anna, hopefullyi will find out in the story.

ken: its over, your free" line seems kinda cheesy.

drnk driver goes for hell for accident? hmmm

Hmm Character was clever and spoke their own voice, but cant say i truelly felt for any. Some need work 3densionally

I would think Ken would be alil more angry with fate since Fate screwed up his destiny.
Structure,was so so, was alil off

Dialogue was good, but too much at certain places and bad one liners at others.
I ask myself now, y did he(we) even  go thru the whole ordeal is the 1st place? Fate already know what to be done but just BSn around what he alrdy knew. And no big surprise he returns, I had hoped for something different.

I think after page 30 the tone and agruements of what he is doin there and what has to be done gets muddled.
I have more questions then I have answers in the story.

What was Ken suppose to do to help anna? NOTHING, yet Fate sends him to " watch" while he figures out what he alrdy knows?
If u goin to do this, u goin to have to let Ken figure out some way to alter reality so that he is helping her. Like Becuz he discovered someway since he is in between worlds at the hand of fate then she is is muddling with the new destiny,ken like has to be sent back to try and save one everything getting messed up since he figured way to beat fate by him (ken) able to affect the new reality. Which would make a lot more since to be then just doin what we alrdy know was goin to hapn. So that is is forced back.
Im just throwing an idea out there. Get creative, what u have written has been done before. U didnt bring anything new to the table


And again i had hard time stayn in tune with the script cuz of the different tones thru out. It needs to be consistent. I think it should be MAYBE alot darker outside of lenny and anna's scenes, to make it a clear drama.

Cant say I didnt like it. Good attempt on 1st draft, I know u can do better. If u got questions, im here to answer


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!



Revision History (3 edits; 1 reasons shown)
JD_OK  -  December 17th, 2007, 9:50pm
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greg
Posted: December 17th, 2007, 4:04pm Report to Moderator
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JD,

Thanks for checking this out.  You know I respect you and I respect the opinions that you and everyone has whatever they may be, but, honestly, the one thing that stood out to me through all of that was "Get creative."  

I don't want to take away from anything you said because those are your opinions, but I mean, that's why we're all doing what we're doing, right?  Because we want to be creative.  And when you spend a great deal of time on something(this isn't a 1st draft, by the way), a comment like that really jumps out at you and kind of stings you in the ass.

I don't know.  The new NC draft wasn't up when I last checked, but I'll check it out when it is.

Thanks again


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JD_OK
Posted: December 17th, 2007, 9:08pm Report to Moderator
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Dont get my wrong, It takes imagination and time to make a script, what i meant for by get Creative was, know what u want it in the story, but take it to the next level with ur own creativity and do something with what u want that hasnt been doin before. Ur story has good bones, and ideas, but needs to be strengthened with the story and over coming obstacles.

Hard for me to explain.

I think it would make more interesting if Ken had figure a way out beat fate a his game so fate would be forced to send Ken back, not just , send me back, no, send me back, no, send me back, hmm no,  then to "Ok"

I didnt connect for a real obstacle for ken to over come while he was dead. its like he had no control over anything and or leway to get things to work out for him.


Newton's Cradle - action/fantasy, 10th draft 109pgs pdf

IN QUEUE - Comedy - Coming soon!



Revision History (1 edits)
JD_OK  -  December 17th, 2007, 9:54pm
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greg
Posted: December 17th, 2007, 9:41pm Report to Moderator
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Hey JD, thanks for that and the IM.  I think just seeing that phrase is like death for all writers but I know you're not one to offend people in any way, so thanks for reaching out and my apologies for taking you out of your zone.  The feedback you provided was very fair and thanks again for checking it out.

And once again, that IM opening was an honest mistake!!!  I can't stress that enough!!  Downloaded NC to my desktop, will get to it right away!


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Soap Hands
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Hey,

This wasn't bad. I think it has potential, but I'm also having a hard time saying I really liked it. I hope that gives you an idea of how I felt about. On to the more specific criticisms.

Characters:

Ken: I thought Ken was alright, but not spectacular. I personally didn't find him that interesting, the stuff happening to him was but not him himself. He was occasionally funny. He did get me to root for him eventually(again though I think it was really not because of him, it was more because of his circumstances and Lenny being a douche). Overall I thought he was fairly solid, a decent main character.

I agree with some of the other that you should play up his lack of backbone at the beginning, that wasn't clear to me when I was reading it.

Also, I hated the name Dundee. That name has connotations. Crocodile connotations. I lent itself to making it difficult for me to take him seriously.  

Fate: I liked him the best, funny interesting, really well done I thought. There are some logic issues that emanate from him but I thought he was really good.

Lenny: Like I said before, I thought he was a douche, but that was his purpose so in that regard I thought he was alright. You kind of spent a lot of time on his mischievous business dealings, I know you really wanted to make us hate him but I think you could have gotten the point across with less, and less is more.

Annabell: I did like Annabell(I mean who could hate a sweet crippled girl) but at the same time I thought she was just kind of there as a trophy for Ken to win. There was some characterization and empathizing but I think there should be some more.

On that note, I didn't have a problem with the believability of the of the Annabell/Lenny relationship, fates supposed to be all screwed up so crazy stuff supposed to happen, right? I chalked it up to that. But also, I think you should be showing other things that are happening that are a little odd besides them. I know you do it some but I think it could use some more.

Also, I agree with the others that there should be some more emphasis on Ken being into Annabell at the beginning, and also that he's too much of a wimp to seize the day and talk to her.

Story structure: Overall I thought it worked. I have a couple complaints though. For me at least, things didn't get interesting until Ken got hit by the car and he goes to Half-Point. So for me, it would be best if you could compress all of the set up as much as possible. I think you could make the scene in the restaurant shorter(get there late and leave early, or I mean earlier . Also, some of the stuff with Chuck I think you can lose or compress. At the same time though, like I said before, I think you do need to add a little something more with Annabel and Ken. I don't know how much you'll be able to make it shorter overall but I think it could be streamlined some.

Story: I've seen stories that a similar to this but I think you put a different enough of a spin on it that it's different enough, it has its own character. I thought it at times was really cute, sometimes funny, sometimes dark, and I thought you managed those things fairly well, there were also some ideas heaped onto it which were kind of interesting(although I do have to say that I disagree with your metaphysics)

On a side note, unlike the others, I didn't have a problem with the length of the conversation between Fate and Ken when he is explaining thing. I thought it was interesting and thus it held my attention. Bert is right about there being redundancies in it but I assumed you had those in there to give us another pass at the information. That said, I'd probably agree with him that it could and should be shortened some.

I think there are two main problems you're having.

For some things, mostly Ken I guess, while I think your going in the right direction, I don't think you quite hit the right note. What I'm talking about here is: Ken's lack of back bone (restaurant scene, talk with boss), some of the stuff with Ken and Anna. I've mentioned this stuff above.

Besides that though, I think you also have some motivation/reasoning issues. So, I'll just through them out there.

If Fate foresaw the problem from the beginning then why didn't he stop the drunk driver/truck, or intervene in some other way? It seems like a better solution then letting Ken go on a journey of self discovery.

After Fate brings Ken back in specter form he tells Ken to protect Anna, but Ken can't really do anything, (I mean he basically watches her get killed.  Fate should also know that Ken can't do anything right? I figure this is part of Fates larger plan, right? But still, I know you need to withhold this information from us till later but I think you could come up with something better then go protect her even though you can't do anything.

If I was Ken, I would do more then follow Annabell and Lenny around. Doesn't he have family or anything? You kind of cover this with the order to protect Annabel but I don't think it was adequately done.  

I thought Ken couldn't interact with stuff but he picks up papers and opens doors. When I was going along I thought this was in violation of the rules that Fate set up, (you're the wind between the cars or what ever) If those are the rules I think you should make them more clear.

You have the part where they decide to fast forward time. I assume you did this for plot purposes, so we can see Annabell's and Lenny's relationship deteriorate, but Fate's and  Ken's rational for doing it made no sense to me at all. So, everything is going to hell if we don't do something to fix fate. But wait, I have a bright idea! Lets fast forward time without doing anything to see if it's fixed its self in the future for some reason. At very least, why not let things run their natural course of events so you have more time to come up with a solution, instead of just jumping ahead to certain catastrophe. The only thing that could remotely salvage this for me is if time is of no consequence for Fate and he knows this, but it doesn't come off that way. And without Ken knowing that why would he think of this?      

I think the best way to make sense of the whole thing is that Fate realized, from the beginning, that the best solution would be to let Ken watch the stuff with Anna so he he realize that he's important and needs to seize the day, then to send him back so he could get with Anna.(Did I get that right?) It seems like a really round about and precarious(I mean he's betting everything on this guy) way to fix the universe/time/space/existence.

Also, Fate doesn't want to go to God to fix this because it's Fate's mess. Really? He's going to sac time/space/ and all existence because he doesn't want to get yelled at? I don't think God would be pleased with his decision.

Some of these things are easier to overlook then others (the most problematic for me was the time fast forward) but you really should try to address them. (Some of them I know you do try to address but I wasn't really buying it)

Final thoughts:

Alright, overall, I think this has some potential. There's some good stuff but there are also some problems. I can't really say I liked it but also I don't think it was bad.

All leave you with the notes I had:

Dundee has connotations, crocodile connotations, I having trouble taking it seriously.

I think you could make the Restaurant scene more compact, maybe start it with him already seated and what not.  

Pg. 15 Is it necessary to know that the driver is drunk? It seems a little forced. Also, that was some amazing response time for those cops.

Pg. 18  ,so you should know me… or at least of me…  ??? I think you’re missing a word or something.

Pg. 21 “But you were a thousand feet in that direction.” Not a big issue but it seems to me like you have a tendency to slip exposition details into dialog that we don’t really have to know, I find it a little distracting. Pg. 70 “You can hear me now because you’re in another world”

Pg 41 He picks up a paper? I thought he couldn’t interact with stuff.

Pg 42 He opens the door? Maybe I read your rules wrong but I thought he couldn’t interact with stuff. Can’t people see/hear what he’s doing?

Pg. 43 How did Ken know that he could just go back? Did fate tell him that?

Pg 43 “What happened now?” What happens now?

Pg 53 April? I think that’s a typo.

Pg. 63 the going into the future plan doesn’t make sense at all to me? Things are already going forward and they are eventually going to hell right? If you don’t change anything and just accelerate going forward isn’t that just going to make things go to hell faster?

Pg 70 I thought Ken’s speech to the sleeping Anna was cheesy

Pg 73 I think you wanted to show us that it was worse, right? I think you could find a way to do this less bluntly.

Ph 73 “Ken, maybe it’s time I just get you out of here. There’s not much more you can do.” Yeah, I agree, Ken basically did nothing, he should get out of there. Why did fate let him run around when he knew that he couldn’t do anything.

Pg 73 I’m not following. What conclusion has he come to?


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greg
Posted: December 18th, 2007, 12:08am Report to Moderator
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Hey Sheep,

Thanks for checking this out!  One thing that I'm finding with the reviews is that everyone has different thoughts on what to believe/can't believe in here.  Ultimately it seems more needs to be done in the believability factor which, given this doesn't include the format conflicts/lengthly lagging my previous two features had, is still progress in the writing process.  I don't know how far I'll go in revamping as I'm thinking drama probably isn't my thing, but your feedback is noted.  I think I'm just gonna stick to shorts for a while.

And Ken can't interact with people or things that they're interacting with.  If it's a lone object, then he can interact with that.

I see you have a few things up on the site so I shall add that to my ever growing to-do list!

Thanks again!

Greg


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Shelton
Posted: December 18th, 2007, 1:10am Report to Moderator
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Hey Greg,

Decided to take a break from writing and look at things from the other side for a little change of pace.  Specter looked like a good place to start.

I like the buildup to Ken's demise and the transition with the orbiting galaxy within his eye.  I think it'd be a cool effect on screen and was a good piece of writing in a "direct with actually directing" sense.  

I do think you're running just a little bit long to get there though.  I think you could spare to cut the scene with Ken and Rose at the restaurant since the conversation between Ken and Chuck fills us in on it enough.  Not that it's redundant, just not really necessary.

Not sure I get Fate's line about Ken being a dime a dozen.  If he's supposed to be an honest, stand up guy in a shallow world, wouldn't he be a little more valuable?

I noticed the little blurb in Bert's feedback about the scene between Ken and Fate in the middle world, and I don't see any issue with it other than the fact that these two would be talking in a white room with absolutely no type of background for an extended period of time.  What;s to say that fate can't switch things up a bit and give his breakdown in a setting that is more familiar/comfortable?  You break it up nicely with the street scenes, but another one in there wouldn't hurt.  As it is, it reminds me of the Morpheus/Neo scene in The Matrix.  Right down to the karate type outfits.

The buildup to Lenny and Annabelle at the apartment was a little predictable.  Lenny seemed to be a little brash and rough around the edges.  Definitely not a charmer even at first glance.  I think by softening him up a a bit you can make the audience a little more sympathetic to Annabelle.  Sure, she doesn't have much experience in the dating realm, but she shouldn't be entirely gullible either.  

I think it's more or less a slow transition from the ultimate nice guy to the ultimate douche bag.

Ken shouldn't be able to remove the blanket over Annabelle with the forcefield the way it is.

On the whole I really liked the story.  I caught a lot of the dry/subtle humor filtered throughout and it made for an enjoyable read.  I can't really compare it to your other works since this is somewhat different, actually, a lot different, but I definitely enjoyed it.  You employed the theme right at the onset and kept it going throughout.  

At times I was reminded of a some other stuff like "What Dreams May Come", "It's a Wonderful Life" and even "The Family Man".  No big deal there though.  I don't read anything that doesn't remind me of something.

Anyway, no real beefs, just the few minor things I mentioned above.  

Great Work.


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greg
Posted: December 18th, 2007, 1:23am Report to Moderator
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Holy crap this is getting a lot today.

Like I saw last week with a few reviews, each one today varied in opinion.  While I knew the concepts would promote a lot of questions, I didn't expect so many different views, but it's made for a fascinating experience to see what everyone thinks.

Well, Mike, thanks for reading this and thanks for the comments!  As always, they are much appreciated.  I know this was out of the norm but I wanted to see what I could do.  Whether I'll do that again is yet to be seen.

And your newborn is ridiculously good looking.  Curse his adorable-ness!

Greg


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Soap Hands
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Quoted from greg

One thing that I'm finding with the reviews is that everyone has different thoughts on what to believe/can't believe in here.  Ultimately it seems more needs to be done in the believability factor which, given this doesn't include the format conflicts/lengthly lagging my previous two features had, is still progress in the writing process.


Sorry, but I'm a little confused as to what you're saying. I thought, as a whole, it was believable. I mean, you have to suspend some belief but once you do everything is alright.

Or are you talking about the, don't to mean to be blunt but, plot holes. Space/time manipulation and all knowingness can really opens up a can of worms (Look at Heroes for example, damn those writers, what were they thinking!) in fact considering(Heroes for example) I thought you did an alright job. The plot holes you have though I think can be fixed, it'll just take some work.



Quoted from greg
I don't know how far I'll go in revamping as I'm thinking drama probably isn't my thing, but your feedback is noted.  I think I'm just gonna stick to shorts for a while.


Really, I don't think this is bad at all. If you work on it it could turn out  pretty well. I hope you aren't dismissing it because a couple of us weren't ecstatic.


Quoted from greg
I see you have a few things up on the site so I shall add that to my ever growing to-do list!


It's not necessary really, this was my good deed for the day. I just killed a man so I'm trying to get karma points . Only, one hundred billion more on the house reviews to go and I'm a free man.

But if you insist.

I'm hoping I'm going to finish an Action/Comedy script (think Shawn of the Dead and Rambo II's love child) before the end of winter break and get it up here. So, if thats more up your alley feel free to wait for that.

sheepwalker  

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greg
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Quoted Text
Or are you talking about the, don't to mean to be blunt but, plot holes.


That's what I was implying haha.


Quoted Text
Really, I don't think this is bad at all. If you work on it it could turn out  pretty well. I hope you aren't dismissing it because a couple of us weren't ecstatic.


No, no, that's not it at all.  Believe me, I've received feedback that literally bashed me around for the heck of it but that never stopped me.  The feedback here is great stuff, but I think at the same time...actually, you know what?  I'm just going to embrace the reviews I've received and decide what I want to do later.  Perhaps drama isn't my thing, but then again, perhaps a good revision will do wonders.  We'll see.  


Quoted Text
I'm hoping I'm going to finish an Action/Comedy script (think Shawn of the Dead and Rambo II's love child) before the end of winter break and get it up here. So, if thats more up your alley feel free to wait for that.


Well hey, you reviewed my new piece so I'll review yours!  Plus I got a bunch to get to before yours, so I gotta get my fatass in gear!


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ReaperCreeper
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Lemme just say  I started reading this script about three weeks ago but I never finished it because I'd been extremely stressed out with Finals in school. But what I did read was very good. Very natural-sounding dialogue and very interesting. I got to the part where Fate gives him the car. I was too stressed to keep reading, plus, no offense, but that part was EXTREMELY cheesy to the point where I was repulsed. "Let's get in the Heaven-o-bile to find our loved one!" Ugh.

Other than that, what I read of the script was ace. My favorite scene would have to be where Fate reveals the drunk driver's extraordinary family history--it was great, and it's true too! Just because you come from a successful family tree, doesn't mean you're not gonna have to work for your place in the world.

Sorry, maybe I'll read this in its entirety in the future, just not now.

--Julio
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greg
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Julioooo, my main man,

Thanks for the read and your words.  I know that finals can be a bitch, just try your hardest and give it your best.  Nevertheless, I appreciate the comments!

One more in the bag for returns.  I started Newton's Cradle today, which is the first feature I've read in months.  I know there's a few shorts you got on here that I haven't read yet and I don't know if you have any features.  PM me what you'd like or I'll hunt you out when the time comes.

Thanks again!
Greg


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