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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Thriller Scripts  ›  Outsiders Moderators: bert
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  Author    Outsiders  (currently 7697 views)
alffy
Posted: September 30th, 2007, 4:08am Report to Moderator
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When I said 'Tadao didn't progress as a character', I guess I didn't word that too well.  What I really mean was that he did evolve as a character but his conclusion was a bit dissapointing, maybe having him live would be good.

I also forgot Ramon was drunk, sorry bout that.  Grant dying was good, I hate the happy ending crap, you're right foreigners would probably be killed the Yakuza.


Check out my scripts...if you want to, no pressure.

You can find my scripts here
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: October 4th, 2007, 12:57pm Report to Moderator
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Hey James,

Finally got to finish the script. I enjoyed it especially for the characters. You really focused on the characters psychology expressed really lenghty in the dialgoue. Some people might have a problem with that, I didn't (I read alot of books, so...). And every character changed except for Grant's father who remained in the austere position.

What I found to be a bother was why didn't the Yakuza didn't grab Grant and Ramon outside when they were drunk?

And why didn't they check for the tattoos in the first place once they had Grant?

Hope this helps,
Gabe    


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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James McClung
Posted: October 6th, 2007, 6:10pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read, Gabe.


Quoted from Mr.Ripley
What I found to be a bother was why didn't the Yakuza didn't grab Grant and Ramon outside when they were drunk?


They explain this, actually. They don't want to risk losing him again. They're in big trouble if they do. They also don't want to make a scene that could lead to Grant escaping. In any case, the Yakuza are actually pretty low key as far as their activities spilling into the public are concerned and they like it that way. They never intended to grab Ramon either. That's just how things turned out. If anything, they would have killed him if he tried to get in the way. Otherwise, they would have left him alone. The way I saw it, the Yakuza didn't even know if Ramon was actually with Grant so they never really paid him any mind. I might add something in regards to that in the rewrite (which is in progress right now).


Quoted from Mr.Ripley
And why didn't they check for the tattoos in the first place once they had Grant?


Grant is obviously Yoshinori's blood and only three years apart from Yoshikazu. I figured the two would be virtually identical (which is part of the reason why Yoshikazu is never shown). The Yakuza wouldn't think to check him for tattoos. Grant tries to get them to check during his interrogation but Tadao dismisses his request as an attempt to get out of the chair and possibly escape.


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tonkatough
Posted: October 14th, 2007, 12:27am Report to Moderator
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Didn't you have another script that involved the Yakuza in the second half? did you write this because you had lots of left over ideas from the last Yakuza script you worked on?

Some of the dialouge for this script I had a big problem with. Those chunks where just way to big and it just got to a point where i just ignored them and moved on as all they  did was just apply brakes to the forward momentum of the story.


As far as I understand, the reason the dialogue was so chunky is cause it was just exposition to set up a reason why Grant was in Japan to look for real parents and Yakuza reason to mistake him for boss son.

Yeah sure I am only guessing as I didn?t read the big dialogue but I only say this cause I felt like something was missing while reading the first act in regards to the motivation and reason for searching for real parents.

Interestingly enough I skipped the big dialogue chunks and the story did not skip a beat.

I really enjoy the plot for this story and how you sort of string the reader along with the whole identity crisis situation. At first I really thought Grant was the lost son of Yakuza boss, that maybe he had a mind wipe or something, then I had doubts. The I thought maybe he must be the who the Yakuza think he is.

It was nice to be kept guessing.

Also how could anyone resist the whole tourist just want to have some Japanese fun vibe that quickly slide into hell.

This was a good idea- sort of like Japanese EL Marachi  -but let down by some heavy exposition dialogue.    



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James McClung
Posted: October 15th, 2007, 3:19pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read, Glenn.

Yeah, Black Market originally featured Yakuza in its third act but fortunately, a couple people talked some sense into me. They're gone now. Still, I wanted to write a script about the Yakuza. In the beginning, I was going to carry some of the ideas from Black Market over to this one but I abandoned that approach a long time ago for the good of the script. Outsiders is completely fresh. The only concept that I carried over from Black Market was an interpretor character. Other than that, all these characters are new with more defined personalities. In the original draft of Black Market, the Yakuza were the "bad guys" through and through. In Outsiders, they're real people with their own thoughts and fears. They're still the antogonists but not the "bad guys" per se.

You're absolutely right about the chunky dialogue. I've read through the whole script again, cut down majorly on the dialogue, and broke it apart so it's easier to read. The same stuff is still there, it's just condensed, which is the way it should be. You are correct that the chunky dialogue is mainly exposition, which can explain why you felt something was missing. That stuff is supposed to be there.

Anyway, thanks again for the read.


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tomson
Posted: October 30th, 2007, 6:23pm Report to Moderator
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James,

Gave this one a read today. I was pleasantly surprised. Your scripts keep getting better and better IMO.

You did good on this, I actually believed you had gone over there just to make things seem real.

I thought this one started out very well and caught my attention immediately. I can't remember everyone's Japanese names, but I was wondering what happened to the "first son" and why he did what he did.

It felt a little Hostel'ish at times with Grant and Ramon being the dimwit American tourists running into some of the locals and being made fun of... IMHO I think you should rewrite the whole part with the arcade and the girls. It doesn't really lead anywhere other than getting the Yakuzas to mistake Grant for "the first son". I think you can work out a better way, less dorky way to ackomplish that.

The dialogue was very good I thought. However there's way to much of it with nothing else going on, so it comes across as speaches, sort of. Let your carachters do something during these long segments to help break things up and add visual interest. I would even suggest checking out some of Phil's scripts. Especially Pugumentary. Little things that his carachters do during conversations that speak volumes. Often those little gestures say more than the dialogue itself.

The interrogation/torture scenes were fine, but could probably still be tightened some.

The ending was a let down to me. At first I was upset about Ramon's death. He didn't deserve that. He seemed like a nice guy. Then you kill off Grant too. It left the ending unsatisfactory to me. I think you should at least let Grant live... that's just me though.

Oh, you may want to check out the cellphone thing. I don't believe they were being used like that in -86, if there even were any at all.

To sum things up...I'm impressed that you keep churning out features. I believe you are getting better and better and I really did enjoy this one. it's not an entirely original idea, but it still held my interest. You were not heavy on action sequences this time which is good. I do think you can do some trimming however. Sharpen this one. Make it even better and change the ending.

Great job James!

Pia  
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James McClung
Posted: October 30th, 2007, 7:53pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read, Pia.


Quoted from tomson
It felt a little Hostel'ish at times with Grant and Ramon being the dimwit American tourists running into some of the locals and being made fun of... IMHO I think you should rewrite the whole part with the arcade and the girls. It doesn't really lead anywhere other than getting the Yakuzas to mistake Grant for "the first son". I think you can work out a better way, less dorky way to ackomplish that.


I thought the interaction with the girls was important. It puts Grant in a situation where he behaves not as a tourist and ends up with him being even more alienated than before. The Yakuza discovering him is only part of this segment.

I definitely didn't want this to turn out like Hostel. The Hostel guys were more fratboy party animals. These characters are a little more on the awkward side and kind of dorks (no fratboy is going to play DDR... sorry). I thought it was a refreshing change and I figured characters slightly less "cool" than the reader/audience would be a little more sympathetic.


Quoted from tomson
The dialogue was very good I thought. However there's way to much of it with nothing else going on, so it comes across as speaches, sort of. Let your carachters do something during these long segments to help break things up and add visual interest. I would even suggest checking out some of Phil's scripts. Especially Pugumentary. Little things that his carachters do during conversations that speak volumes. Often those little gestures say more than the dialogue itself.


I was hoping it'd be a little while before anyone else read this considering I submitted a new draft about two days ago. The chunky dialogue has been cut down big time and split up with action and dialogue from the other characters to make it considerably more breezy. I definitely did a number on the dialogue. I think if you'd have read the new script, you wouldn't have mentioned the dialogue. You're right with this draft, in any case.


Quoted from tomson
The interrogation/torture scenes were fine, but could probably still be tightened some.


You're probably right. I'll see what I can do.


Quoted from tomson
The ending was a let down to me. At first I was upset about Ramon's death. He didn't deserve that. He seemed like a nice guy. Then you kill off Grant too. It left the ending unsatisfactory to me. I think you should at least let Grant live... that's just me though.


The ending is a major downer. I planned it that way. Obviously, it's not for everyone but it fits perfectly with the tone of the script and a logical conclusion to events. Outsiders is a tragedy. Not every ending is meant to make people feel good but this one's definitely meant to make people feel bad.


Quoted from tomson
Oh, you may want to check out the cellphone thing. I don't believe they were being used like that in -86, if there even were any at all.


Definitely, definitely right. Will fix. Thanks!


Quoted from tomson
To sum things up...I'm impressed that you keep churning out features. I believe you are getting better and better and I really did enjoy this one. it's not an entirely original idea, but it still held my interest. You were not heavy on action sequences this time which is good. I do think you can do some trimming however. Sharpen this one. Make it even better and change the ending.

Great job James!

Pia  


Thanks again for the read, Pia. Helpful as usual.


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James McClung
Posted: November 4th, 2007, 11:30pm Report to Moderator
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New draft is up. I haven't changed the story much. Most of my rewriting focus was on dialogue. I think it's a lot more "readable" now. I've also made a few minor adjustments to make things read smoother and a few embelishments to make things a little more interesting. Overall, a lot more easy to read. That's the main thing. I'm still open to comments and criticisms if anyone's interested.


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spirrow
Posted: November 7th, 2007, 10:17pm Report to Moderator
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even with the redraft I dont paticularly like the dialogue at the beginning for some reason its seems to planned. The dialogue after is fine I love the way you started the script very well -- my hat goes off to you for that.

You talkin to producers or litercists? If you have some contacts we can exchange them I am looking for some too.

Let me know
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James McClung
Posted: November 7th, 2007, 11:21pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from spirrow
even with the redraft I dont paticularly like the dialogue at the beginning for some reason its seems to planned. The dialogue after is fine I love the way you started the script very well -- my hat goes off to you for that.

You talkin to producers or litercists? If you have some contacts we can exchange them I am looking for some too.

Let me know


Fortunately, the dialogue in the beginning isn't the dialogue that was problematic. The dialogue after that was where the problem was. Had you read the first draft, you would have noticed. Believe me.

And no, I haven't been speaking to any producers. Not about Outsiders, anyway.


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tweak
Posted: November 10th, 2007, 7:21pm Report to Moderator
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I started reading this because I go to Japan pretty often.  I like the country.

But the dialogue is just too over the top that it's distracting.  There is just too much profanity.

Check out the script for "Knocked Up."  The dialogue you're writing sounds like it's trying to be the dialogue from "Knocked Up," but it's just not working.

Please read it aloud.

tweak

Note: I did like how the dialogue was moving the story forward, so it's not completely horrible.  And DDR
          is a pretty dated video game even in Japan.  Jump on an airplane and go check out their arcades.
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James McClung
Posted: November 11th, 2007, 5:23pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the read, Tweak.

I'll take another look at the dialogue. This is the second time someone has had a problem with the profanity in one of my scripts (although the first time I've heard about excessive profanity in this script). The other script was littered with it and everyone seemed to be ganging up on it (for good reason). I've tried to clean things up (a little) since then and try to be more natural. Then again, profanity is natural for some people. As for Knocked Up, I definitely wasn't trying to emulate that dialogue. I've seen the film and almost immediately decided I would never want to hang out with these people in real life. Good flick though.

As for DDR being dated, that's a good point. I'll try to do some research and see if I can't come up with something better. Believe me, I'd love to visit Japan but that's definitely not happening anytime soon. I'm a college student. Money is tight.

Thanks again.


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dresseme
Posted: November 28th, 2007, 4:16pm Report to Moderator
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James-

When I read the logline to your script, I thought "Man, I'm going to hate this."  Not because it's a bad idea for a script, but because I usually dislike it when I read scripts about gangs, mafia, etc, etc.   Usually it comes off as just a piecing together or films they've seen in the past, with VERY unrealistic characters.

This, however, is not the case here.  I'm only up to page 24 here (usually I stop here and give some side notes before continuing), and I love everything with the Yakuza in it.

So much so, in fact, that I dislike when the script spends too much time on Ramon & Grant because I want it to cut back to them.  You've done a good job developing the characters, but I think you could lose a bit of the interactions between the two of them and get this thing moving a lot quicker.

For example, I thought that the interaction on the plane had just a bit too much exposition in it.  And perhaps if you just balanced it with more cuts back to the Yakuza, it wouldn't feel too long.  For example, I thought the DDR montage was horribly out of place, and I think you could benefit from cutting away from that and then cutting back just as they are finishing.

Even the club scene seemed a bit too long.  I think they should get there, be ditched immediately, so we can get to the meat of the story (the Yakuzas spotting them).

One other note is that I found the exchange between Tadou and the gambler to be a bit unrealistic.   I don't know if he would just spill his guts like that.  It would seem more believable if he just carried on, pulled him out of the car and threatened him.  Just my opinion.

Sorry if it seems like I'm being too critical.  I really like the story.  I'll keep reading, but I just wanted to make some initial notes.
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James McClung
Posted: November 28th, 2007, 7:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dresseme
I dislike when the script spends too much time on Ramon & Grant because I want it to cut back to them.  You've done a good job developing the characters, but I think you could lose a bit of the interactions between the two of them and get this thing moving a lot quicker.


I think you might be right. I spent a lot of time planning out the scenes with Grant and Ramon but I have to admit, there's still some filler in there and even without it, I think maybe there could be a little more Yakuza action going on in there. I'll see what I can do.

Glad you like the script so far and that you didn't find it contrived like so many other crime scripts. Hope you like the rest of it. I think it's very different from what someone might expect based on the logline.


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dresseme
Posted: November 28th, 2007, 7:51pm Report to Moderator
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Ok, just finished it up.

All in all, I enjoyed the script, but I have a few comments to make.

First off, I think Grant should go to Japan with some intent on seeking out his parents.  It just seems to come out of nowhere.  I understand he was upset, but it seemed like finding his parents wouldn't come out of what happened to him at the club.

When the thugs let Ramon live in the bathroom, I was pretty pissed off.  I thought you had let a perfectly good opportunity slip by to kill him and have it be very shocking.  But then I read on....   his other death is MUCH more shocking, and left a bigger impression.  I would, however, create some other reason (other than he called out his name) that they let him live.  Like, someone was coming and so they had to get out of there, or something.  It just seemed unbelievable.

The more I read about Tadou's character, especially with his violent tendencies with that businessman, the more I thought back to him and the gambler.  Like I said previous, I think I'd like to see him rough him a up just a bit as a threat.  It might also show him trying to attain some of the power he craves.

The whole dialogue on p.73 and on about pussy seems REALLY out of place.   I think you need to generate a better way for Grant to escape.  It not only seems way to convenient, but WAY too Tarentino-esque.

Usually, I can tell when I'm reading a good script because I stop taking notes.  For this, I stopped taking notes because I didn't want to stop and just wanted to know how it would end.  And it ended great..very tragically, yet satisfying.  Good read.
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